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@hmf338 ай бұрын
Hi, could you recommend between the Zero (originals) vs the Waners for vocals only?
@imwhatsnew8 ай бұрын
@hmf33 both are good, for my tastes the waner is bit less sharp for vocals so I prefer it
@hmf338 ай бұрын
@@imwhatsnew thanks for the reply!
@hmf338 ай бұрын
@@imwhatsnew would you say the vocals come across more natural on the zeros or the waners? Thanks. I had the Zero originals in the past and really did like the vocals so just wondering if the waners are right for me. My biggest issue with some of these IEMs is vocals coming of as too "bright" sometimes and I didn't have that at all with the Salnotes really.
@Mechnizmo88 Жыл бұрын
Solid review, as always. I realise that I kinda keep switching between wanting a bass heavy unit at times and wanting a a neutral one at times. Seems like this plus an EQ fits the bill just as well. :) Another review that nails exactly what it should. :)
@SH4DY Жыл бұрын
The og zero is the iem that really got me into this mess, I have to get this one just for that. Also is that a moonswatch i see? secret hypebeast hmmm?
@imwhatsnew Жыл бұрын
haha yeah..got it way back...giving it some time on the wrist.
@glbernini0 Жыл бұрын
I love my original Zero's! Love the Mecha color. I use them with my phone & listen to audiobooks several hours a day while working. My replacement tips cost as much as the IEMS did!
@c4monkey10 ай бұрын
eq it with +2-3db @ 125hz low shelf filter and -2-3db @250hz. more bass while maintinging a very balanced sound
@stevedimitriadis Жыл бұрын
First video from yours I’ve seen. Clean and concise. Nice job!
@David_Watts Жыл бұрын
EXCELLENT review with just the right descriptive wording I'm looking for! I totally get what you're saying about the bass response, because I saw another review and that's what they got, but didn't quite elaborate the way you did and that's why this one of my go to channels!! Thank you and keep up the awesome job!! 🙏
@chandanpiku Жыл бұрын
How does it comes to Moondrop Chu 1 and Chu2?
@poppy11th8 ай бұрын
I’ve spent the past 6 hours comparing the wan’er to the zero 2 and I have to say i prefer the zero 2. I’m not a bass head but the wan’er just lacked on the bass department for me. I also found the wan’er very fatiguing and they actually hurt me ears on certain tracks with how pronounced the treble is. I will say the wan’er are slightly more clear in the treble range with better distinction of instruments. However, my biggest issue with the wan’er is quality control. Although they are beautiful and have a nicer cable. The 3 pairs I ordered all had issues. Two had damaged connections and the third had delaminating of the resin. Not a good sign and longevity worries me.
@obodioreviews Жыл бұрын
Awesome review! The Zero 2 seems to have a more "consumer" type of tuning compared to the OG, but there are so many new sets with that kind of tuning so I definitely understand your take why it probably should've tone the bass down just a bit
@wanaboed Жыл бұрын
What's your choice for the price OB? For bassheads, in my mind I will choose probably Sgor Adonis & KZ Castor Bass
@electricfatman Жыл бұрын
Best unboxing video ever, fast and to the point. For those of us too lazy to read a list. :) Great video and content, enjoy your sense of humor too.
@delicrux Жыл бұрын
also agree the zero is excellent for the price step up in my opinion is the koss porta pro with the extended mic, i know its not a iem but for sound and portability worth it. for the temples on the koss add little more foam and the switches take the pressure off your ears.
@hokagoteatimereviews Жыл бұрын
That tuning looks really good for the price! And I am really a fan of the copper and black colour.
@hassanlumna233 Жыл бұрын
Get KZ Castors it will blow this iem to the ground. If you want bass get the KZ Castor Bass👍 just better all rounder than Zero or Zero 2
@abhishekshaji1426 Жыл бұрын
How would you compare it too moondrop chu2?!
@wanaboed Жыл бұрын
Please compare Zero:2 to Chu 2. Chu 2 also has more significant bass
@56754927 ай бұрын
I didn't care too much for the OG Zero's but the Zero 2's - 7z really nailed it with this one to my tastes .
@8lec_R11 ай бұрын
I don't like unboxings but I do like to see what is in the box if I feel like something is missing. Or rarely when I need to repack something exactly how it came
@delicrux Жыл бұрын
you get a like for the unbox call out, typically there are 2 reasons i like watching unbox videos, 1 in reverse it is a step by step video on how to put the contents back in the box for shipping or storage, 2 simple stuff what is in the box like say i mixed up chargers and forgot to label them i can check a unbox video and figure it out without destroying my gear.
@zerotactix5739 Жыл бұрын
Loved the blooper at the end 😅
@imwhatsnew Жыл бұрын
🤣
@PartyPubG7 ай бұрын
I think the zero is the all time budget gaming earphone. Im talking about fps games. Very solid
@marksr12 Жыл бұрын
Great review! Just got mine, pretty good. I have never heard the original.
@FaizalKuntz Жыл бұрын
I need info about IEM driver, so I know whichever is the cheap one and expensive one. The audio graph is not helping to tell which one is budget and which one is the expensive one anymore.
@codexnecrogeddon Жыл бұрын
Great review! Even though I adored the original Zero, I'll probably be skipping these. I usually keep two mains - a detail tuned set for gaming, and a basshead set for music. Zeros were my absolute favorite gaming set for over a year until I got the Truthear Hexas. Hearing that they tuned this sequel set with more bass... well, it sort of defeats the point of this IEM for me. Bass is typically bad for competitive gaming, I've found, and I've already got sets that can do bass much better for music.
@davegorthuis679 Жыл бұрын
I think in this price bracket the KZ Castor bass edition is the best offer.
@wanaboed Жыл бұрын
I really need to get the Castor but it's hard to get by in my country
@guidomauriciotoroarze85947 ай бұрын
Will an Apple USB-C Dongle will work well or suggest on another cheap option please?
@guidomauriciotoroarze85946 ай бұрын
Same question! I've read that the Musehifi M1 is good too
@Tame-e9c2 ай бұрын
Apple type c support android device
@KelvinKamsg Жыл бұрын
Thanks for the review!
@ShahariarMahmud Жыл бұрын
What do you think is better in terms of durability? The tangzu or the zero 2?
@nexuhs.7 ай бұрын
Zero, any iem with the cable connectors poking out is prone to start wiggling and breaking
@imwhatsnew7 ай бұрын
The waner is also pretty darn durable if you ask me
@vinhnguyen-o5z2 ай бұрын
damn i kinda want a waner now. but i already ordered zero 2. oh well
@MR.ROBOTVOLTRON Жыл бұрын
I think a really good comparison would be the Nuo Iem. The Zero 2 looks like a nice cheap addition.
@hassanlumna233 Жыл бұрын
This is overpriced in current market. Best deal right now in KZ Castor
@MR.ROBOTVOLTRON Жыл бұрын
@@hassanlumna233 most definitely the Castor has disrupted the market. I'm listening to it right now. It's so responsive to EQ. Not to mention it's switches. Plus it looks great. I can be a bass head IEM or a little treble forward and analytical. It's way too much value for most other competitors.
@tacoearth Жыл бұрын
do you think eqing the bass down gives the control again? thanks
@imwhatsnew Жыл бұрын
A little.. but it doesn't become a whole lot better.
@gwine9087 Жыл бұрын
Love your humour.
@akairyuugamine09 Жыл бұрын
Hello I want to buy my first IEM under $25. I like to first listen music/instruments in the song then vocals. So as long as I like instruments I'll listen to any song. I am not basshead but I do enjoy good quality bass. Also I don't like it when music feels like pins in my ear that is high treble/female vocals( I simply can't listen 3+ songs of Taylor swift back to back)
@nekoooshan29239 ай бұрын
Which one is better for gaming Chu II or Zero 2?
@CptDuck8 ай бұрын
Zero 2..
@maxpayne69.7 ай бұрын
Final VR3000 is the GOAT
@ArczAngel Жыл бұрын
Thanks ordered the green 💚 one
@petroskoutsakis9828 Жыл бұрын
green one? u mean tangzu wan'er jade green?
@balsalmalberto80867 ай бұрын
Where's the green one?
@xxdanielpiandaxx6069 Жыл бұрын
"Does the 02 have too much bass? I'm looking for something 'neutral' but slightly warm, with neutrality being the main focus. Will it be a good choice?"
@kuhieyei3855 Жыл бұрын
Go for wan ers lol
@xxdanielpiandaxx6069 Жыл бұрын
@@kuhieyei3855"Thank you, friend
@RenimakBagio Жыл бұрын
@@xxdanielpiandaxx6069waner doesn't sound as clean as zero
@KunalVaidya Жыл бұрын
Between this and cadenza which one do you prefer ? And which seller for India has zero 2 Also in retro look and comfort fit for office type use , how is the koss porta pro ? It was on offer recently but is it worth the 3k price or more a nostalgia piece
@hassanlumna233 Жыл бұрын
Bro get KZ Castors. Around 12-15$ I'm not joking it's an upgrade from this overpriced collab. I'll admit the OG was one of the best in it's Era but not in the current market. If you want Bass like Zero 2 get KZ Castor Bass. If you like something like OG Zero get KZ Castor Harman like idk why this is hyped.
@DrVishu04 Жыл бұрын
Zero 2 is on headphonezone
@petroskoutsakis9828 Жыл бұрын
and also the og zero is not 20$ the option without mic is $22.99 and with mic is $25.99 and the zero 2 without mic option for now is $24.99 so is just 2$ increase in price
@Devi_1 Жыл бұрын
I love tangzu wan'er mid bass I want to upgrade which one do you suggest?
@Tame-e9c2 ай бұрын
Which you buy any suggestions 😂
@imwhatsnew2 ай бұрын
Xuan nv
@yashsingh86410 ай бұрын
Simgot ew200 review?
@guidomauriciotoroarze85946 ай бұрын
This 2 or Simgot ew200
@KunalVaidya Жыл бұрын
What is intension of the eq profiles for a particular model of headphones? To make what you have with you , sound like that model name of eq profile?
@imwhatsnew Жыл бұрын
An eq profile modifies the loudness levels of certain ranges of frequencies to make the headphones sound different... I.e. more bass , less treble, sharper mids etc..
@retouthugues4921 Жыл бұрын
Nice video one more time. How would you compare it too QKZxHBB ?
@imwhatsnew Жыл бұрын
I think i like these better( I haven't heard the hbb in a while) .. but to be honest bass heavyness is not my thing
@retouthugues4921 Жыл бұрын
@@imwhatsnew thank you for the answer 👍 !!
@Afy2810 ай бұрын
Should I buy zero 2 or zero og, coz the zero 2 don't come with a mic or should I consider any other around the price point?
@lethalswiss108 ай бұрын
You could just buy a cable with Mike.
@frankgarcia98342 ай бұрын
At the price buy both and have fun.
@Prophecy23JC10 ай бұрын
Do you use this over the first one now? And do you feel going up to the TruthEar Red is worth the price increase? And with that said, is it then worth the price increase to go to the Hexa? Have a good day.
@imwhatsnew10 ай бұрын
Yes the price increases to both those sets come with audible differences in sound quality .
@ronakpaliwal996411 ай бұрын
Please make video on kz castor Harman Target or suggest me 7h zero vs castor which is sound better produse?
@Voodoo_monk Жыл бұрын
as someone new to this whole game.. is this a good start to buy in iems?
@imwhatsnew Жыл бұрын
It's cheap and introduces you to what good tuning (mostly) sounds like.
@Voodoo_monk Жыл бұрын
@@imwhatsnew thank you. just bought this a fiio ka1 to test out.
@ahraziqbal911 ай бұрын
Hello, can you suggest me an IEM under 50$ for male vocals(clarity and detail). I don't need anything else like soundstage or technicality but I only care for natural or a bit forward sounding male vocals. Please suggest a similar option around 20$ as well and tell me how much is the difference between them just to know if it's worth to spend double than the 20$ set. Thanks in advance
@hiro_4449 ай бұрын
Check out kiwi ears cadenza, blon bl03 and tango wan'er. I don't have personal experiences with these, so no comment on how different these are
@niharranjanmahali85495 ай бұрын
Hi, as you said the salnotes is best for gaming that's correct, but i want to know that is the tangzu wanner also good for gaming as salnotes?
@imwhatsnew5 ай бұрын
@@niharranjanmahali8549 yup
@niharranjanmahali85495 ай бұрын
@@imwhatsnew thanks, but I don't think so because as far i have been knowing that it's not good at all for gaming, since it's sound stage is not that wider which doesn't delivers directional audio.
@imwhatsnew5 ай бұрын
@@niharranjanmahali8549I've actually used both. ..but sure .. great. Why bother asking then ?
@niharranjanmahali85495 ай бұрын
@@imwhatsnew I have asked just to be confirmed as you didn't said it's gaming performance in video, bdw thanks for your response.
@26faizalam103 ай бұрын
I have the zero can i make it sound like tangzu waner s. G zero is a bit sharp😅
@Prophecy23JC11 ай бұрын
Hows the Waner for gaming in comparison?
@subtilizer4664 Жыл бұрын
Hello sir. So which do you prefer more Truthear Hola or 7Hz Crinacle Zero 2? And for gaming which is better? Is 7HZ Crinacle zero 2 Is fatiguing as the original?
@imwhatsnew Жыл бұрын
No the zero 2 is not as fatiguing as the first version...the hola is a darker sound ..i.e. less treble...personally I think I'd pick the zero 2 if I had no other choice ..but mostly I'd pick the tangzu waner
@RenimakBagio Жыл бұрын
@@imwhatsnewI m afraid in tangzu waner the vocals are are clear and clean as zero 2
@1dotDEW Жыл бұрын
I think you might be the only guy who can give a solution to my problem. As i can see your also a apex fan and you know that apex has audio issue, so there is a issue when i fire the gun the bullet sound goes like 200% than surrounding environment ( same from enemy gun sound ) and there is fix about it by turning on the loudness equalization from windows audio enhancement settings. When i try to use apple type-c dongle (using it with typye-c to usb converter to plug in pc) for better output it does delivers it, gives a very well boost to to the sound but it turns on that bullet sound issue. now when i go to settings to turn on the loudness equalization there is no tab bar on the menu. so now now i cant use my dongle :( Have you faced any similar issue with your DACs ? Pls give me insight on this matter. Thank you.
@imwhatsnew Жыл бұрын
So I'm not sure why a gun would sound that much louder in game but maybe you've got an eq applied in the background that you don't know of or have forgotten about? Alternatively, perhaps in the apex sound menu something is higher than it should be ..
@1dotDEW Жыл бұрын
@@imwhatsnew I've check most of the options like you mentioned i even installed a fresh windows but its still the same, and there are videos of Apex loudness equalization settings. The thing when i plug my dongle that option is not this is the main issue.
@keshavmishra075 ай бұрын
Sir Ji, I am a music lover🎶... so I want to hear all the notes of the song clearly. Too much bass should not obscure the vocals. The treble should be clearly audible but not harsh enough to hurt the ears. so which iem would be best 7hz zero 1 or 2 and waner s.g and chu 2.? Or any other option you suggest!!
@imwhatsnew5 ай бұрын
@@keshavmishra07 for me the waner in the price point is very good..
@keshavmishra075 ай бұрын
@@imwhatsnew Sir is any difference In waner og Black and in Jade Green .
@imwhatsnew5 ай бұрын
@@keshavmishra07 in sound? I don't think so..
@manvendrapratapsingh91739 ай бұрын
Sir These or the zero one for fos games like bgmi for enemies footsteps ?
@imwhatsnew9 ай бұрын
They're both good ...honestly.
@areitz1962 Жыл бұрын
which keyboard are you using in this video? just curious...
@imwhatsnew Жыл бұрын
The uber cheap rk61 lol
@ongki67564 ай бұрын
can u do a comparative review of chu II also
@PSGYT106 Жыл бұрын
what is the best audiophile iem under 25 dollars or 2500 please suggest me i want to buy
@anandpatel496010 ай бұрын
Is concept kart good website to buy from ??
@imwhatsnew10 ай бұрын
I haven't bought from them myself but people do seem to refer to them when they talk about prices in India..
@anandpatel496010 ай бұрын
@@imwhatsnew yeah they sell cheap in their own website and at higher price in Amazon. Idk if I trust them what to do
@fz83765 ай бұрын
@@anandpatel4960i think amazon itself increases the price. I recently brought a asus laptop from Amazon only 1 left in stock and it went out of stock from the asus website aswell ( could be a coincidence) but the price difference was 2000 between them
@rogue434011 ай бұрын
Waner good for gaming in apex ?
@YoriichiTsugikuni511 ай бұрын
Love from india my guy❤
@SebastianTimothy-u2x Жыл бұрын
KZ Castor bass version is nice as well.
@OhNooJosephJoestar Жыл бұрын
i was thinking how does it compete against hola in comparison as an IEM and overall packaging as I think the hola comes with the same cable as hexa does and mah brother hitting us with the truthear reference in the end lol
@revanthgoli901311 ай бұрын
What is good for gameing around rs2000
@petroskoutsakis9828 Жыл бұрын
you preferer the tuning of this or the og 7hz zero? also which one is better for gaming and music
@thisisjeeva Жыл бұрын
I would also like to know, which one would be better for gaming
@imwhatsnew Жыл бұрын
I have addressed this in the video :)
@petroskoutsakis9828 Жыл бұрын
i just ordered the zero 2 cuz it seems smoother and also he said that is good for gaming and eq becomes as good as the og but the og has a peak in treble which can be harsh so zero 2 might be the better choice but i will have to find out if its actually good@@thisisjeeva
@Smzxe Жыл бұрын
@@petroskoutsakis9828nah bro the 7hz og is much better bass is good once you get used to it it sounds so good The bass is very rumbly don't have the punch
@hirookenji Жыл бұрын
Pls compare it to Chu 2 since you haven't reviewed it yet.
@abisheiksekar Жыл бұрын
How does it compare to the Cca Cra ?
@par-y4e3 ай бұрын
It is a piece of trash and it hurts my head, the fitting is bad and trebble is too sharp and not wide sound staging
@abisheiksekar3 ай бұрын
@@par-y4e which one are you talking about ?
@par-y4e3 ай бұрын
@@abisheiksekar cca cra
@abisheiksekar3 ай бұрын
@@par-y4e I agree on the treble. What Iem would you recommend with your experience ?
@par-y4e3 ай бұрын
@@abisheiksekar I ordered tangzu warner, i hope they can stand against my apple airpods pro, oppo enco x2 and jabra elite active 65T.
@rizaleffendie Жыл бұрын
So the zero 2 looks more eye catching than the wan'er, but is the tonal more enjoyable than the wan'er, Thanks
@PeterM-PeterM Жыл бұрын
Hola or Zero:2 or ew200 ?
@Wisteria-090 Жыл бұрын
ew200 definitely
@DHRME Жыл бұрын
Thanks for this bombastic review. Which DAC are you using?
@imwhatsnew Жыл бұрын
All of them . I used the fosi audio dac I had on the table and also the xduo 05, I think
@DHRME Жыл бұрын
@@imwhatsnew What's your DDD? (Daily DAC driver. Sorry I'm ATA (Addicted to acronyms))
@imwhatsnew Жыл бұрын
@DHRME oh you've got it bad, my friend. At the desk for iems is the xduoo . My speakers run off the fosi, though. And on the go, it's whatever I have at hand...mostly wireless tbh
@pisderata Жыл бұрын
my problems with the first one was a better fit (right shell create pressure) and a bit cleaner driver...and meh, more bassy, another of the 287337 iems with that signature and keeping the same shell...just milking it
@SilentCyborg118 ай бұрын
Zero 2has mic ?
@mrvgc4477 Жыл бұрын
is it comes with mice or without mice ??
@imwhatsnew Жыл бұрын
Comes with an RTX4090 sir...just $25..
@mrvgc4477 Жыл бұрын
my need for gaming... so.... chu 1 have mic, chu 2 haven't. same zero 1 have mic sir....but after see cable i think it haven't. most of reviewer didn't talk about it. so i asked. soory for my speling mistake if u don't understand what i was asked and i don't understand your reply also. so can i get answer in yes or no. is it mic or without mic@@imwhatsnew
@imwhatsnew Жыл бұрын
@@mrvgc4477 ohhh, mic! Mine did not come with one. You can check on the store to see if the option is there.
@CatOfCulture Жыл бұрын
waner has a mic option
@mrvgc4477 Жыл бұрын
thanks for reply @@imwhatsnew
@KnightTamila7 ай бұрын
Isn't nobody talk about qkz zx1 , it's nice for the price
@oppenz3723 Жыл бұрын
Now even $20 IEMs have 6mm nozzle. Seems like I won't be buying anything new soon.
@ballisticvorhees2360 Жыл бұрын
The length is still short tho
@benmacdhui Жыл бұрын
Yeah. I don't get these companies with their wide nozzles. Honestly, the Ziigaat Nuo are going to be extremely tough to beat at this price point
@edwinchan539111 ай бұрын
Do you have any plan to review 7hz Sonus?
@imwhatsnew11 ай бұрын
I actually have it in my backlog.. might do a quick review .
@jeffreyroberts743811 ай бұрын
The zero 2 isn’t particularly good, not much different from the original. I have both.The increase in bass is minimal. Something like the KZ ZSN PRO is so much better for the same money, more solid all round, even though it’s a much older IEM
@Boofski4 ай бұрын
Those white genelecs look so cool its distracting
@emjay973311 ай бұрын
Why do audiophiles hate bass? I don’t get it.
@hiro_4449 ай бұрын
It's not that they hate bass, they just hate the sort of bass that messes with the perception of other frequencies in bad ways
@imwhatsnew9 ай бұрын
I like bass quite a bit ...but it has to be good bass and like hiro said it musn't mess with everything else
@tamalt0779 ай бұрын
Is saaniyax your daughter? Same accent
@imwhatsnew9 ай бұрын
Bro, how old do you think I am!?!??!!
@uditkeshav496611 ай бұрын
Zero 2 vs Truthear Hola which one should I get? I want subbass rumble and good soundstage
@imwhatsnew11 ай бұрын
Have you seen the Hola review..that should help you decide
@uditkeshav496611 ай бұрын
@@imwhatsnewI owned a CCA CRA before , I mostly listen to Rap and I don't game at all. So I'm confused. Between Wan'er Hola and Zero 2. And I'm also new to this. I am daily driving Pixel buds so compared to that can you suggest me something? I'm sorry my indecisiveness. Want a good Iem With Strong Subbass and wide soundstage.
@Gadgetibles Жыл бұрын
In a nutshell my waner is still IT !
@mmanoo Жыл бұрын
audio please
@hassanlumna233 Жыл бұрын
The Zero 2 is overpriced piece of mama. Buy a Castor. If you want more bass Castor Bass version. Like it's just technically better than Zero and Zero 2. You can get CCA Rhapsody, Conch or EW200 for 30$ in sales like dude don't get this. I warned you.
@howardroark3670 Жыл бұрын
The Rhapsody is $69 dude.
@howardroark3670 Жыл бұрын
Good call on the Castor. Better deal.
@hassanlumna233 Жыл бұрын
@@howardroark3670 in my country I got it for 30$ and It wasn't on sale I just used store voucher and some everyday voucher. Like the base price is 2000php which is 36$. Zero 2 base price is 1500php and OG Zero is 600php. Even if Zero 2 goes down to 1000 php just get 2 KZ Castors. In the past OG Zero was one of the best budget in it's Era but Zero 2 with barely any technical upgrade and just added bass and refined treble. It's meh. But it's your money just warning others
@craigjoe869111 ай бұрын
Room temperature IQ comment.
@marqie589 Жыл бұрын
Waner better than zero2 for sure.
@ManjitMedia6 ай бұрын
no mic 💀💀
@orikank Жыл бұрын
Title is misleading for Indian viewers. It won't be sold for 2000 INR, it's already on preorder for 2400rs on audio websites like conceptkart, and it is also going to be sold for 2400rs on headphonezone
@imwhatsnew Жыл бұрын
The retail price is set in usd which is 2000 inr no? But your point is well taken..will amend it to under 2500...of course it will end up cheaper in a few months lol
@orikank Жыл бұрын
@@imwhatsnew Much appreciate it! Ideally it should be cheaper in half a year but I highly doubt it will drop to 2k unless it's a sale. Salnotes zero released for 1990 when it should have been 1600. Same thing now, it shoul be 2k but it's selling for 2400. Import fees, seller margins and taxes to be blamed
@amanieux Жыл бұрын
still ugly shape and ridiculous clown colored eartips, is it good at low/casual volume (for my ears the first version of zero only sounded good at high volume, at low/casual volume, it lacked bass)
@imwhatsnew Жыл бұрын
If bass is what you want, I suggest you watch this review.
@tdtdtd18269 ай бұрын
Such an overrated 👎👎👏 with this overrated utuber
@RatchetRorschach9 ай бұрын
so, whats the better alternatives?
@wemustgo Жыл бұрын
Pass. There are too many IEMs that sound nearly the same but cheaper.