In Search of the Third Attractor, Daniel Schmachtenberger (part 2)

[@RebelWisdom]

Daniel is appearing at the Rebel Wisdom closing event, the Last Campfire, in London on November 5th. To find out more and to attend, click here: www.tickettailor.com/events/rebelwisdom/718672

[@palmpat1147]

Future projects for RW's awesome creators? Thanks so much for affirming ideas that I wasn't hearing anywhere else

[@melissametzger2987]

I know right

[@alwayswatching4351]

GIVE US YOUR MONEY YOU SUCKERS!

[@tobyharper7577]

Wow, my first real meeting with Daniel Schmactenberger. What a trip, i'm going to rewatch these more and more. The ending thoughts did exactly as he had hoped, they provided a clarity to a intuitive feeling I have had for a while. I'm 27, very confused about the state of the world, I have no real trust in any direction being offered by the world, and I'm desperate to be of use somewhere to something that provides a real road map of sorts to a future worth working towards, thank you Daniel and Rebel Wisdom for steering me in a direction that feels more trustworthy than anything else I've seen so far.

[@magnusdanielsson2749]

I would say that if you want to feel that you are doing good, helping others joining some charity or NGO is your best bet. Ive done some work in africa and theres is alot a normally educated person from the west can contribute in many parts of africa. Another way is to help local kids with homework etc. But if your aim is to feel and know that you are affecting the trajectory of the world as a whole you would have to work towards getting very powerful. Either in politics or as an entrepreneur with alot of wealth (becoming a hyper agent). But Id say your best bet is to work small. Improve yourself in all ways you can (mentally, physically, education etc) and try to be a positive influence on your surroundings.

[@liamwinter4512]

He's one of those people who you can attach, "at first you had my curiosity, now you have my attention" type thinker and speaker.

[@janeentwistle8239]

@@magnusdanielsson2749 have you seen any successful social co-operatives in Africa? I think they might work better than charity systems.

[@magnusdanielsson2749]

@@janeentwistle8239 well I have seen something similar to it. It was a project by a local church that had very great success teaching the locals brick making, composting and agriculture. But that means you need engaged people living on site for a while. They had many cultural things they came up on. One was the notion that compost wouldnt work because if they didnt burn the fields there would be no smoke to form clouds for rain. They had to sneak the compost off and show the elders later that it actually works. I think one of the big things you need to handle is the suspicious minds and having the ”people skill” to change how people think. Keeping in mind that many of the adults have less education than a typical 3 grader.

[@stegemme]

yes, see Mondragon (Spain) for example@@janeentwistle8239

[@jennysteves]

A superb analysis, and I am grateful to Daniel Schmachtenberger and Rebel Wisdom for the time and effort it took to share this with us. However, I worry that an intellectual presentation, even one as deep and wide as this, and which even emphasizes the need for a tri-pole solution, reaches only a very specialized head audience. And I have no confidence in this head-oriented human group to solve our many predicaments. Call it woo or silly, but I personally love that New Yorker cartoon depicting the scientific step in a long equation/proof, that pivotal and crucial pause, when ‘something magic occurs’. I’m no spiritual bypasser. I’m fully collapse-aware, and have been so since childhood. I’ve looked upon the human society I’ve had to grow up in and accept with increasing incredulity and fear since I was 3. So much cruelty and shallow thinking. So little kindness. So little deep understanding of what matters. I’m grateful for this beautiful presentation but it leaves me grieving. We need more heart, and a far deeper sacred understanding of purpose and meaning.

[@robertpekin2995]

Couldn't agree more Jenny, your thoughts convey the tension between the acknowledgment that what Daniel has presented is amazing in it;s articulation and the balance of the work that needs to done from a practical emergent heart led mindset on the ground in community. Thanks

[@ximono]

I think Paul Kingsnorth had a good answer to the question of technotopia vs doom. kzbin.info/www/bejne/fnu5mqSbd9SprLM "What does it mean to save humanity? What we're talking about is a very particular worldview. Very modern, very Western, very technocratic. Quite male, actually, all of these blokes are blokes. It's a very particular worldview which has a lot of assumption in it about what it means to be human, what it means to live well, what kind of society we ought to live in, what progress is, what we consider to be a good social organisation. We are tending to assume that these are universal values, but they're not. There's a lot of people in the world, from different cultures and backgrounds, who wouldn't even recognise this. Even in the West, there are plenty of us who don't agree with this stuff. The minute you come up with a grand, totalising scheme to 'save the world', then you're on the verge of creating a tyranny." Now, Schmachtenberger does want to avoid dystopia in his search for his "protopia". But it's very much a _techno_ topia, and it comes with a lot of assumptions about what it means to be human, what is good for humanity. One person's protopia is another person's dystopia.

[@ximono]

(Hm, my first comment was deleted. Maybe because I wrote something about shades of trans and human(ism) and hope and saviour? I'll try again without that sentence…) Well said. I'm skeptical of Smachtenberger's leaning towards AI as a solution, though I do understand his reasoning. While he does emphasize the need for more wisdom, like Iain McGilchrist, his third attractor seems to be very much a technological one. His protopia, with its egalitarian aristocratic education and all, is intriguing. I'm just not convinced that we could get there with our current mindset, power structures, etc. without falling into a dystopia. Maybe I'm being too pessimistic, but I can't see how a world system that's powered by AI could prevent corruption, having been born from this civilization. Who runs the AI? How can we trust the tech? What if it breaks down? It seems like a vulnerable system to me. Like Marx's Das Kapital, I think Schmachtenberger's analysis is remarkable and important, but I have a feeling that I won't like his solution. I agree with the analysis, not with the conclusion.

[@zyman1994]

What a man. Lets together be better teachers to our childern so we and our kids can start building together a better world!

[@barbcarbon9440]

My mind come more and more alive every time I listen to Daniel. I am energized to seek solutions. Thank you.

[@joedavis4150]

All the wisest people of all times have said two things.. simplify, and look to nature.

[@TheDionysianFields]

"Consider the lilies of the goddam fields." -Ulysses Everett McGill

[@jonrose7687]

I'll let Daniel speak to that in this 4m 41s video which is actually almost a postscript extract from a much longer interview. If you can, watch at least up to 2 min (and then you'll probably watch the rest...) kzbin.info/www/bejne/q3akpH6hn6mIiNU

[@Ghanzo]

His work unfolds like a book. I’m always excited to see his latest interview/article. Finally we’re starting to see some of the modeling of the solution space. Exciting

[@annemariesegeat9397]

exciting indeed!!

[@okafka5446]

I've listened a couple of times, and am struggling to find the proposals in the solution space (other than what sounded like an AI run/human invigilated universal? tuition programme). Sounds like you may have gleaned more?

[@annemariesegeat9397]

@@okafka5446 You are the solution. We all are! Do you feel his passion? His care for the planet? Is it not resonnating in you as you watch few times....because you have the same passion and desire to dedicate your life? What is preventing you to do so...for some philosophy is just to stuff their mind...for others it is tool to help being in communication with reality...

[@Ghanzo]

@@okafka5446 One of his proposals is forced transparency. You could see this take hold in something like organic food. The farmer begins to have an incentive to publish all the information. Farmers that appear to be hiding something, like soil samples, or maybe have downed cameras at a time where nearby folk see spraying take place, dissuades people from using their products.

[@okafka5446]

@@annemariesegeat9397 Passion is not a word I'd ascribe to Daniel,if anything he presents as someone who carefully chooses their words and considers their relevance - at least this is the appearance. Nothing is preventing me from communicating with reality, why should that even be a consideration for anybody? We are all connecting with reality in every moment of our existence. Unless of course you judge that Daniel communicates with reality more profoundly than others? Again this isn't apparent from listening and following the content - much of which is simply a description of the current status quo, with a vague promise of ameliorating it with the 'third attractor' - what do you understand that to mean? And again as the commenter above put it - what concrete proposals are being made in this solution space?

[@robtallon9927]

Hoping this (Part 2) gets promoted and made available to all soon. Daniel's style and the subjects of his consideration are critically important to humanity. I wish I could conceive of a method to get him in front of people as quickly and virally as the latest TikTok rapper.

[@gavranarh]

try conceiving a method on making him as concise and getting his point across in 15 seconds and the other problem will take care of itself

[@JB-yg3ew]

Are there any metamodern rappers, rapping about existential threats and solutions? Saul Williams is my first thought, but his stuff is very experimental sounding.

[@robtallon9927]

@@gavranarh These topics (along with all of the most important topics humanity faces) cannot be boiled down. What has to shift is the cultural environment, where long form discussions of this nature are what get upregulated and are addictive. Much like Buddhist and Jain cultures, which have shifted millions of people's intrinsic motivations.

[@JoshFlorii]

if only complexity was sexy!

[@gavranarh]

​@@robtallon9927 ​ if they cannot be, then all this is simply gonna die on the vine. Best case scenario, it's taken up by Ivy League college professors now and in 20-30 years we see watered down and ever more distorted echoes of it, trickling down the rungs of mainstream culture, as was the case with marxism, Nietzsche, post-modernism, christianity, intersectionalism: the boiling down, simplification is inevitable - it's only a matter if it comes at the beginning when you can steer it or at the end when it's random and degenerative. I'm sorry and I really feel conflicted being the naysayer here because I so want these sensemaking efforts to break new ground, to have a tangible real world impact. But in order to do so and in a timely fashion, there _needs_ to be a really gradual on-ramp to this, otherwise it's good for nothing other than as mouth fodder for a handful of self-satisfied cognoscenti. Then it's intellectual wallowing and larpurlartism and anyone who's interested in that I'm not interested in. Then this isn't really about sense making but about reputation making? Friend making? Maybe the way to initiate people into these topics, if we use Vervaekean terminology, is through non-propositional knowing, but through procedural, participatory knowing- that's how religion engages low level initiates "do this, be this way" as a way of onboarding to this new set of values, new way of being. Christianity for example, has a way of engaging initiates on the whole spectrum, from my grandma to a Teilhard de Chardin, often simultaneously. And it's done in all 4 ways of knowing. A 5,5 hour talk is certainly something, but it the goal is to actually have an impact in the real world, as it purports (does it?)... In Darwinian terms it's simply unfit.

[@occupyshotenzenjin]

Feeling blessed that I finished part 1 I could slide right into part 2 and hear more thinking on the third attractor itself once the problems are understood with a bit more clarity. What clarity describing this situation we find ourselves in! Thanks to all involved.

[@ArtieTurner]

Thanks Rebel Wisdom for more great content. I think I could sense David Fuller sitting nearby, with pointed questions at the ready. Daniel's contrasting hyper agent images of an AI Overlord and the return of the messiah contain the seeds of another great Rebel Wisdom production. Spirituality vs Technology.

[@DeepDish211]

I love this man. Let us all promote and support him all the way. And by the way… Is that lamp being crooked bothering anybody else?

[@ribeirojorge5064]

From the Unconscious Hell ❤️ To the Conscious Hell 💚 To the Paradise of Consciousness 💜

[@PeeGee85]

Brilliant, brave and thought provoking.

[@petermiller7978]

You are an inspiration to us all. Thank you very much. I am very keen on spreading your ideas & like last video, I will forward this talk onto my social network. I have been using Google Translate on my iphone recently & GOD is this really USEFUL - This is an example where technology can help people better communicate & therefore understand each other - rather than have communication break down & violence & trouble. Take breaks from your hard work - I will look forward to your next talk Cheers peter miller from Bristol UK - Louder Car Stereo's Now!

[@brianweymouth301]

Blessed are the precious few who just are passive and yet Their messages are fresh and new and have a massive effect They’re saying the words that need to be said Our prayers are heard; we’re proceeding ahead! Blessed are the sense makers; we swear, indeed, it’s so Their messages, then, hence take us just where we need to go Standing on the shoulders of the sense makers of the past Expanding on, but bolder, hence, making it then last What’ said before so very well of god and religion With metaphor and parable but a modern revision You find it fuels then the fire of your inspiration of intelligent design To mine the jewels that inspire just more information of a relevant kind

[@leedufour]

Thanks Daniel!

[@bertiebassat5545]

Fascinating! I’m not sure I heard a solution to the issues though, that seem likely to be implemented. Regardless of how well thought out the third attractor may seem, how novel and applicable something seems in potentiality, without application it is nothing but niche philosophy floating aimlessly on the periphery! Maybe the simplistic clue to a solution is the plough story, where the place of the feminine was sidelined and subsequently balance was lost and the equilibrium masculine/feminine skewed towards patriarchy. Another great point is the fact the we are being socially engineered by big tech so they may as well develop a more beneficial semi educational algorithm, rather than fueling populism and division while people are lost in some divisive echo chamber. Maybe as a starting point the political class of the USA could wake up to the fact populism and securing short term election goals are not long term solutions to a sustainable society or one that is particularly attractive to emulate.

[@arkology_city]

I agree with Daniel - We need an enlightened meritocratic scientific aristocracy to rule autocratically.

[@gavranarh]

Nope. Read what this leads to in Vanity Fair's article by Katherine Eban "This Shouldn’t Happen". What you are suggesting is the equivalent of Gandalf taking the Ring of Power. But Gandalf is wise enough to know not to do that - whatever his intentions, power would corrupt him make him into Saruman at best. With a bit more power science would turn into the medieval Catholic Church - it kinda already has about an increasing number subjects. Try challenging the consensus about climate change? Covid? Gender? Race/IQ? I feel dirty just listing those in the same place.

[@arkology_city]

@@gavranarh You are 100% correct. I meant ruling more along the lines of the Free Masons. Disregarding the failing Democratic political institutions.

[@gavranarh]

@@arkology_city isn't that exactly what the Americans currently have: an oligarchy of officials that are more or less untouched by the elections, the "deep state"? Something Trump tried disrupting but just ricocheted from the surface layer? It's most definitely what the EU Europeans have as it's most important bodies are a closed cabinet of powerful officials that is answerable to noone, while the parliament is just kabuki.

[@arkology_city]

@@gavranarh Yes, but if such bodies don't have the power to tax or arrest, they suddenly become virtuous and productive...instead of a cancer on society.

[@okafka5446]

@travelling through time - Out of interest, where exactly does he say that?

[@ErnestoEduardoDobarganes]

David Fuller need to set up a narrower aperture in his cameras and set the focus to 'manual'

[@BarronWinget-gc1te]

Captivating insight!

[@arloquest]

Pure brain candy.Thank you.

[@learningthroughdoing1641]

How can ordinary people who are able to see similar things but perhaps don't have / want the kind of exposure Daniel and others have created, contribute to the thinking and problem-solving? There's a lot of fragmentation in most areas of life, complexity being no different. Local solutions may be useful for learning, sharing, scaling...but they are not going to change entangled global catastrophic risks. How can we usefully come together, given that groups like Rebel Wisdom eventually evolve into something else?

[@paulwary]

The corollary to "a problem understood is half-solved" ought to be "you don't really understand a problem until you try to solve it". This happens in programming all the time. One clear example is when I was trying to understand the Monty Hall problem. I didn't understand it until I coded a simulation, after which it was obvious.

[@gavranarh]

yes, but to continue your analogy, you're not facing one problem, but a series: even if you understand the problem and solve it, you end up with a brilliant piece of code. but then you have to implement it, demonstrate that it works and you have to sell it. these things are taken very seriously in the software development world and a lot of effort is given to ux, packaging, marketing: even though your product would undoubtedly benefit the user, you still have to nag him and seduce him just to even try it once. now translate this into the world of ideas and you have an enormous problem: even if you understood and solved the main issue, which would be a first in the history of man, you still have to find a way to demonstrate it and to "market it" to people. ideas don't succeed simply by being good, unfortunately, they need to be able to spread, and spread moreover better and faster than the dumbest, low denominator bunk that litters peoples minds. how do you do that while not sacrificing the core message...idk

[@jonrose7687]

While I agree in this context, understanding the problem is useful, I don't agree it is necessarily the case. Solution focussed approaches for example tend to be more interested in exceptions to the problem (outliers as Daniel describes it) and what success would look like. So for example, in a somewhat unrealistic thought experiment, without knowing the full nature of the problem (eg perverse incentives, the tragedy of the commons, multi-polar traps, exponential catastrophic risk etc) we simply imagined a future where all humans were lovingly connected with each other and nature and valued this over 'things' with positive reinforcement for living a simple life. And then someone found a magical way to make this happen (mdma in the water - some powerful brain hacking through social media & other outlets - the rise of an amazingly charismatic figure who captures world attention) then without truly understanding the problem, many problems would magically be solved. When it came to AIDS while understanding the problems of how the virus impacted the body and how it spread was important, the real gold was discovering why certain individuals didn't contract AIDS despite being exposed to the virus including by blood transfusions... So besides this practical side, there is also an issue of feeling disabled, disheartened, & subsequently dismissive when too many problems overwhelm. Strength-based, solution-based approaches can tend to be more motivational... Even when confronted with existential risk, many will simply feel too hard, too overwhelming & choose to simply enjoy what they can in the limited time they have... So I see a role for both... For a well-developed problem focus as well as a well-developed solution focus - different strokes for different folks.. .

[@noochynomads1335]

4 hours in and all I can hear in my head is "multipolar traps". Haha but for real Schmachtenberger, thank you man. Your left hem break down of all this helps bring some navigation. Still feel though like you essentially represent the mindset that ultimately has led to a lot of this... Others in the comments have mentioned a dialogue between you and McGilchrist, I think that would be an amazing convo. Beauty vs Systems kind of discussion, in which McGilchrist will pump some color into this repeating message of doom. Cause he provides, in his most recent book, a trail to navigate this nightmare, a trail that fundamentally rests upon beauty and love. Something I believe your message is lacking. Another way of saying it could be that when one does a little background check on the two of you, its a little unnerving to see you selling brain enhancement drugs vs a old man in isolation in Ireland.

[@noochynomads1335]

cause like essentially, it comes down to changing the value systems. But I just don't see that happening in the way we would all consider "good". Like it will take an event similar to covid... Which... When one listens to you... one essentially comes to a conclusion that there is a ruling elite, with plans of centralizing... and they know that it comes down to values. So.... Its like your pointing at the values and saying we must do some MASSIVE work to change these, and Im pointing at them and saying, someone already is.. And to try to navigate the situation without fully accepting that and its implications is just a monkey fucking a football. Fuck the conspiracy shit labeling, you just pretty much validated half the conspiracy out there, just in your techno left hem language that bypasses the preconceived ideas about it.

[@martingifford5415]

Daniel said that sociology often forgets about the influence of ubiquitous conditioning, and that humans are very plastic, e.g. good cultures can create a smart or non-violent population. I agree. But he also said that game theory dynamics, rivalrous human nature, and human dispositions explain a lot of bad behaviour. I disagree because of the first point - a culture that focuses on gain will trigger game theory dynamics, rivalry, and negative dispositions. The solution then, is to focus on removing that cause, i.e. removing the idea that our happiness is dependent on gain. Instead of focusing on a third attractor, we just need to remove the cause of catastrophes. That doesn’t require AI/Metaverse education. It just requires widespread noticing that gain is unreliable and that detachment leads to peace. As Daniel said, we've got to understand the problem properly. That means that we must find the cause of the problem (= focusing on gain) rather than just responding to the effects (= the triggering of game theory dynamics, rivalry, negative dispositions).

[@jonrose7687]

I agree to some extent - this is the superstructure, values-based change. However, when you say, "It just requires widespread noticing that gain is unreliable and that detachment leads to peace." the word, 'just' is misplaced in our current world with high tech and $billions spent on capturing our brain stem, mid-brain & frontal lobes to all sorts of shit. We have huge social structures which are all about attachment & things to which we are highly addicted as a society. Cambodia, Thailand, Burma (Myanmar), Bhutan, Sri Lanka, Laos, and Mongolia all purport to be Buddhist countries. Non-attachment is meant to be a central tenant of Buddhism. And while I understand as with Christianity, it fundamental teaching are poorly practiced in these countries, to get to the state of non-attachment (vs detachment which is quite different), by the majority of people, the majority of time, including those in corporations, politicians etc, is unlikely if it is the sole focus. If it was, we'd all be practicing Buddhism as described by Buddha right now...

[@martingifford5415]

@@jonrose7687 I somewhat agree. We probably need someone with charisma and money to break people's focus away from societal illusions. But it's simple in principle. Each person only has to ask themselves, "Are my values reliable?" That's a simple question, and the answer is obvious. Maybe you just have to say, "Yes, it's easy to do and spread," and then tell others to say, "Yes, it's easy to do and spread." If you say it's hard, then that belief is the most immediate obstacle.

[@googlemechuck4217]

I don't think nobody appreciates the fact the civil war was fought with cannonballs and 80 years later WW2 was ending with a thermonuclear device.

[@sirscottyII]

Bravo!

[@marcuswirtz490]

absolutely fascinated, but can't stop staring at the lamp. I have an oil lamp in the same style I use for meditation.

[@DreamseedVR]

34:45. Also golems. Some of us have been talking about corporate golms for quite a while.

[@TheLasTBreHoN]

14.36 we need one ring to rule them all!

[@JohnChampagne]

The problem with the capitalist economic system (and every other economic system yet tried) is that prices do not honestly represent costs. The remedy is to charge hefty fees when industries extract resources, emit pollution or destroy wildlife habitat. The policy will be fair if fee proceeds are shared equally. This is good, because the other systemic defect is our failure to share natural wealth. The proceeds from fees will be a monetary representation of natural wealth. By respecting basic moral precepts (truth and fairness are primary values), we will promote sustainability and end abject poverty. The change in paradigm will convert humans from something like cancer cells of Earth to neurons or brain cells. (Profit motive will drive efforts to reduce harm, like a sensory nervous system for the Earth.)

[@peterjohnstoltzman]

Please tell us you are in touch with Peter Joseph!

[@ruipedroparada]

A personal question ( put forth as a gong-an or "public case") in utter good faith: Daniel Schmachtenberger, when you look inside what do you see?

[@farinshore8900]

Benevolent Machiavellianism ?

[@RobRaptor49]

Thought 2 - Daniel is a serious techno-optimist. I don't have the knowledge to say if I'm wrong or if he is, but, the way I see it he is grossly over-optimistic. AI at present is simply complex algorithms - and algorithms basically output a defined output based on input - in my experience w/ climate models (we're taking large, multi-variate datasets). This is good (means the dystopian world of 99% job replacement is unrealistic - unfortunately 90% probably is realistic ... At least machines are bad at screws?), but also possibly bad as the potential for AI may be far more limited than Daniel thinks (and so less helpful at solving our problems). So. My input - I suspect there is great value in prioritizing social relationship and connectedness. In my mind, the root of the problem is tribal - people are wired to connect to only 50 or so other people. Thus, a CEO choosing to prioritize the profits and fortunes of shareholders and elites that he knows makes sense - only those 50ish people are counted as "people" in his mental calculus - the others are just numbers. If we can enhance connectedness among many people of all sorts, perhaps we can grow what is innately, unconsciously seen as "my tribe".

[@iuvalclejan]

Most Luddites are not against technology. They are against technology that destroys individual souls, families, tribes and villages. They were not against looms, only against industrial looms. Most industrial tech, even before becoming "exponential", was destructive to the above levels of human organization (whether used in capitalism or socialism). Craft technology didn't do that as easily (though it could do some destruction of souls if used in sweatshops). The higher levels of organization in this third attractor should just prevent inter-tribal resource wars and keep global information flowing. There is no need for fancy AI to do that. The lower levels need to outcompete the global economy, which they won't do with efficiency of production or attention-grabbing algorithms, but they could do with communion (between people in families and tribes, and between people and their living land), and with good work that connects people's gifts to below Dunbar number tribal needs. Exponential tech will not continue if people's attention is on their own souls, their family, their tribe, and the living creatures of their land. The lower levels were outcompeted by the global economy before, but now people have seen where this led (similar to addicts who have sobered up) and know better, they just need the choices that were available with these lower levels to be available again.

[@iuvalclejan]

So Daniel has nothing to offer as far as tentative solutions to global problems besides transparency and education? We are truly fu**ed if this is the pinnacle of our civilization's response. I think a possible solution to ALL these problems, which has scientific (and obvious historical) support, is staring us right in the face: renounce economic globalization (except perhaps for luxuries), rebuild local economies and local cultures (with new technologies if necessary), learn from the past (instead of the religion of progress mantra: "we can't go back", which is a stupid straw-man), and learn from conservatives, who are able to better tolerate self-imposed constraints on their freedoms.

[@donovan665]

Mangling language at every turn, not easy, but done supernaturally well.

[@iantroesoyer1864]

I like so much of what he has to say, but I find some of his assumptions unfounded and possibly crippling to his conclusions, like that... 1. The most vicious, ruthless independent actor is the most effective (when there is clear evidence that is not the case: i.e. multicellular life, bees, human beings) 2. The success of certain enterprises was due to the capabilities of great men (i.e. Alexander the Great) who had abilities several standard deviations above the mean (when there is evidence that most of these individuals had exceptional environmental factors, i.e. multiple exceptional tutors including Aristotle). So much of what he says is good, but I feel like these assumptions make Daniel dismiss important possibilities, like that transparency, art, pro-social behavior, etc. are in fact adaptive and just need the right coordination mechanism to unlock their potential.

[@Anerisian]

I guess that’s how the next step of evolution from Deepak Chopra sounds like. Terms like “collective choice-making”, “singleton” and so on are just pompous and/or clunky (you never hear of singletons unless you are a programmer, and here he just means a world ruler). The mash-up of ideas are supposed to reveal hiherto unseen dimensions, but the pace at which this happens (something else every second sentence) is more loose postmodern metaphorical jargon, where you kind of guess what he could have possibly meant. Wake me up when lesser thinkers have digested his surely brilliant ideas, and they become accessible.

[@olivergilpin]

Egregores… interesting phrase

[@KillaKiRawBeats]

Cannot change the genetics engineering. X Y and now Z

[@siyaindagulag.]

1:19: 00 Picture a pendulum..

[@jimo4106]

We need a new paradigm for being and living human. The old one based on capitalism with a goal of globally increasing GDP, with an ever-expanding human population, on a planet with finite resources is neither viable nor sustainable. It is a system design that must crash. And crash it will. But hopefully out the ashes a new way of being/living human will emerge. And that new system will cherish and protect Spaceship Earth as the Milky Way rockets into the universe at 1.3 million MPH.

[@MoshieJ]

Hmmmmm does he ever answer all the ‘hows’ that he raises? Sounds like AI is our only hope -

[@unclebenny9028]

Everyone eyeing each other thinking both are cancer cells... Good grief!

[@drumanddrummer2959]

Dude can talk lol

[@joedavis4150]

Two or three strong psychedelic experiences would help. And remember, cannabis is a psychedelic.

[@Stratton218]

annotations

[@Stratton218]

41:09

[@F--B]

UMPEN EINSCHTEIN CEMETARIES

[@jeffriesmovies]

Just breathe like a normal person jfc

[@ruipedroparada]

in fact, this type of discourse is the limit case for rudderless proliferative thought-formation (matched only by the intestinally clogged Petersonian right) - both reek of terrifying meaninglessness/uselessness...By the way, I put this opinion forth with the greatest respect...In any case, there is actually a fascinating aspect to this type of discourse - both as a sort of grand bourgeois background entertainment and a cheap thrill of the sociologist academicyst...The faecal retentive Petersonian right has revived certain medieval cadavers via Jung; the troubled, beige left responded with egregores and 20th century French ectoplasm + Wilberism (the most amusingly gigglerrish shit-spark of late stage New Age carnival)....good luck down there, people of the Earth

[@MarioSpassov]

Part 3: kzbin.info/www/bejne/qnvMpJt-priMY80

[@n1mbusmusic606]

Xmr zkp cryptocivilization. Pow. Decentralize but also monarchy. We need to decentralize data storage for security and robustness but we also need high IQ strong leadership. Democracy the god that failed. Just doesn't work really.

[@1just2confused3]

RW is how I first found Daniel back in 2020. I have since listened to this mans voice for dozens of hours and shared his message with everyone who will listen. Thanks again 🙏🌸🌿

[@cherrytreepermaculture756]

Some of his early interviews on Future Thinkers are well worth checking out.

[@MattAngiono]

Same here, I even remember where I was and was just like, this guy is AWESOME!

[@bahamutknight]

If Daniel were to design a board game, it would start like Risk/Axis and Allies but the goal of the game would be to change the rules mid-game to play an Infinite Game.

[@TheDionysianFields]

Like co-op volleyball, where everybody falls asleep after six hours?

[@Baes_Theorem]

I would play the shit out of that game

[@hedzh1]

@@TheDionysianFields more like the nfl with transgender athletes and everyone (athletes, fans, media, etc) drops lsd and takes bong hits at halftime.

[@cyclicsamsara9490]

RW please make a discussion between Daniel and Iain McGilchrist happen

[@ErnestoEduardoDobarganes]

Daniel is a cognitive and spiritual beast 😁

[@Withlindaandrews]

How does intuition play into this? Is their a more scientific or clinical word for intuition? This seems like an innate technology that this connection could solve a lot. If humans are not apex predators and their power is superior to apex predators, what if AI is this to humans? As an expression of nature? Humans then living attune to intuition becomes survival? And the ai is replicating us but optimizing based on our model? This inspires me to intuition attunement event more.

[@scottypagesmehner6742]

Smartest guy in the space

[@MrJoker42369]

yoo a part two!! DS is my fav guy

[@allenwarren1269]

Your outline of a third attractor at 14:00-15:00 sounds to me like a description of Baha'i Administration. I appreciate deeply your dedication and commitment to sense making.

[@dannybrown5205]

I hope one day Daniel writes a book, so that my grandchildren will have something to look back on when all of this is gone

[@globesurfer122]

This and the first part are such amazing sources of wisdom, I have several pages of notes and it's taken me hours to really internalize everything he's said. Sadly I doubt these videos will reach that far, the content is just too dense and heavy for most people.

[@jonn_esternon]

Daniel's use of 'Hyper-Agency' is quite different from how it's used in Vervaeke's corner. Here, Daniel means "outsized influence/agency" while in Vervaeke's corner, Hyper-Agency connotes collective agency, collective intelligence, etc.

[@enExima]

I think he splits this "field of hyperagency" into Agents (singular governed) and Egregores (multigoverned). Both (all three) have "hyperagency" because of their capacity to influence emergence (at large) - and both are mechanism to coordinate collective action. As Institutions have in his Trinity. I think, the term Egregor equaly applies to all of them .. in Egregore/Thoughtform space. (Its more or less the intellectual/mimetic grip we have on it .. and ever had). These three are all agents, institution and egregores at the same time but there seems to be a gradient from physis to the abstract that runs through them. These 3 (at least) seem to run/instanciate/dominate the "field of hyperagency" Even though an Egregor (of Collective Intelligence) becomes a Hyperagent if done correctly, there is currently this "physical real" Human (Musk/zuck) that is correctly identified as "Hyperagent"(singular human(feudal) in terms of Powercapabilities. But one has to ask: Is Zuck governing Meta or is it the other way around. Because in Egregorthink the Jungian approach "People do not have Ideas, Ideas have People" might be behelpful .. that might explain the alien/robot/pseudosocial appearence of Zuckerberg, because he might be governed by one of the mightiest Egregores (theMeta) that humanity ever came up with. Hehe

[@jonn_esternon]

@@enExima thanks for that! that is well-elaborated.

[@Kub-Kob]

what a beautiful mind!

[@Withlindaandrews]

Mirror neurons! It seems by expanding peoples concepts of what’s possible by relating to other who are “like them” and already doing it has a huge opportunity to inspire. Interesting to consider how “new media” infused with collective consciousness and sensemaking can serve as an immediate activation. Then integration support is important for long term change. Love these convos. Thank you all 💛

[@heikeplanetarypatriot3876]

I am so heartened by people like Daniel. Takes our shared reality by the scruff of the neck, sits it down and questions it in a sincere quest for understanding in order to find commonality for better future paradigm shifts for improving everything to do with our collective and individual experience. Beautiful.

[@timb350]

Sorry...but a problem FULLY understood....IS solved. Of course, that depends on what is meant by 'understood'. What Kettering was probably referring to...was rational understanding...which...quite obviously...is NOT full understanding. A minor quibble...but sometimes words actually do matter.

[@adempc]

Using AI to educate ourselves might possibly be the very best use of technology ever. So exciting what the possibilities are.. quality math instruction for all.. we'll be out of the solar system and onto bigger and better things in no time. What companies are working on this?

[@skeptical2023]

i really enjoy your lectures. I'd like to know your opinion about mass surveillance, which is hardly discussed anymore.

[@magnusdanielsson2749]

This is very much inline with Buckminster R Fullers ideas back in the day. The book Critical Path outlines this kind of solution albeit with the limitations of knowledge in those times. Its very much logical and reasonable. And more importantly it is more forgiving for individual preferences than the ideas of Jaque Fresco. The thing with Fresco is that he envisioned a completely transformed human society where "correct thinking and behavior" (not a quote) should be produced by the right society/envirnoment. This comes across as a horror to many people today. What is needed is a way to keep our society looking very similar to today with the kind of individual freedom that we all take for granted but with a "checks and balances" for resource management and wealth distribution designed to cater to all people. I think what Daniel is outlining here is more inline with that and should be easier(?) to convince people of as they way forward. Im afraid the alternative is a breakdown of societies with famine, lack of basic resources, decline in population and reversion back to a less advanced society and a life without many of the comforts we have today.

[@johnmadany9829]

I’m halfway through. Control of an animals against its will? When I was a cowboy there was no better feeling in my entire life than leaving slack on the reins and letting the horse take over. The horse knew exactly what it needed to do and I’m sure that it’s hormonal milieu was that of a winning athlete. Men and animal work together. The ox is not beaten all the time. You can you love your draft animals big time. It brings tears to my eyes the relationship between domestic working animals in their owners. It is extremely symbiotic.

[@patiencefalters9024]

Like his trimmed beard! Most certainly his unique intellect & heart.

[@orangetuono38]

Is this a sequel to the Celestine Prophecy?

[@casparswahn48]

I want an VR deep fake AI run version of Daniel Schmachtenberger to talk to ❤

[@jonrose7687]

Phew - that's a lot to take in - like a super-rich black forest cake exploding all my sensory, emotional & cognitive structures... My thoughts are tricky ... On the one hand, I'm very supportive of the systemic integration of the 'Infrastructure-Social Structure-Superstructure model with criteria to enable virtuous relations between and within each other as well as binding things like the multi-polar traps, perverse economic systems etc... This is brilliant architecture for the grand plan as well as useful to inform incremental steps towards this plan. I do wonder, however, about the timescale for the development & implementation of this plan given the rate at which several pending catastrophic, existential risks are excelling along with the resulting dystopic regressive systems. To buy time, while being cognisant of & working towards the grand plan, I would propose some sort of multi-pronged 'package' maybe along the lines of something labeled as 'democratic reform' which incorporates things like fundamental values & principles (superstructure) governance structures (aiming to minimize multi-polar traps etc) and possibly utilizing various tech in the short-term. That is, to have a marketable package to the population at large as well as some key players, to at least bind some of the worst aspects, especially of our current democracies. While this shorter-term solution might give us time to prevent short-term (5-20 years) catastrophe, it may inadvertently delay the urgency for the development of the grand plan. It may also prevent the collapse of the current system which might be needed to create the 'grand plan'... So I am torn... How do we survive long enough to achieve the grand plan in the longer term? Do we need to sell as a shorter-term well-packaged, labeled & promoted interim solution? If so, how might we prevent 1st, 2nd, & 3rd order consequences, particularly ones which might undermine the progression of the 'grand plan?

[@iantodoyle5074]

Hurrah. Part 2. In eager anticipation 🙂

[@bblackburn1823]

Taking notes, everyone??

[@rumination2399]

I can barely emotionally comprehend this. It makes perfect sense of course. But fuck it hurts to really be pulled through all the things you know but have never truly put together all at once in your head

[@frankwhite1816]

The truth is in his sighs.

[@annemariesegeat9397]

🙏❤

[@gillbeatsisback01]

It pays off to search youtube weekly for Daniel , thank the gods for advanced searching, and his mind that expands yours with every sentence

[@Ghanzo]

I do the same haha

[@TheDionysianFields]

You could log in and let your algorithm do the work for you?

[@AiMachineMelodies]

@@TheDionysianFields nah it doesn't work as well. Algo will only show stuff he's on from bigger channels and not tiny podcasts he guests on

[@TheDionysianFields]

@@AiMachineMelodies The sad part about that is that Rebel Wisdom is one of the best podcasts out there. The algorithms would work if people knew what was good. But you still might want to question how much of your feed is material of little or no value...by your own hand.

[@danthemansmail]

Really good stuff.

[@cherrytreepermaculture756]

Still working through part 1. Daniel is one of the best modern thinkers.

[@truepatriot6388]

The concept of "Entropy" is often included in emerging sensemaking narratives along with its complement, "Syntropy", and I have been giving thought to this duality and how it relates to the predicaments of the Anthropocene. Spreading awareness and understanding of Syntropic power may be the third attractor... --- The supreme good is like water, which nourishes all things without trying to. It is content with the low places that people disdain. Thus it is like the Tao. --- Many have been struggling to better envision how to transition away from our entropic civilization toward a spontaneous self- expanding syntropic community. If this goal also interests you, please take time to consider the perspectives and questions below. Any feedback is much appreciated. As you know, entropy (and negentropy/syntropy) reflect how matter and energy change with time. As captured in the 2nd law of Thermodynamics: overall, things will progressively decay and become more chaotic, disordered and incoherent as time passes, and with less capacity for "useful" transformation. On the other hand, the universe and our planet have been evolving toward increasing order, syntropy and meaningful information. These rhythmic patterned exchanges of matter and energy have been embodied in the three kingdoms of life (matter/energy > plant growth > animal growth > fungi > repeat) and have created expanding capacity for information processing, including consciousness, social behavior, learning and human culture. Information theory and recent theories of mind are based on these same patterns of entropy vs syntropy. The Anthropocene dawned when human groups began to harness ever greater capacity for entropic power in which energy is narrowly focused in order to fragment materials, tissues and even chemical bonds - often for the purpose of killing and dismembering. Entropic power involves a fast, precise, and intentionally "optimized" flow of destructive energy based on positive feedback (e.g. exponential and unstable), often with unforeseen, "externalized" and longer lasting harms (winners and losers). Examples include fire, the sharp edges of flint tools, arrowheads, spears, the plow, bullets, and then explosives, combustion engines, nuclear fission, and all manner of modern tech. In the information sphere, entropic energy flow/power involves hidden information and deception for the purpose of manipulating or defeating others. At the spiritual level, entropic power enslaves us to desire and fear, hubris and hate, and separates into "us and them" - "lock and load, it's kill or be killed, and might makes right." These typically masculine technologies and attitudes have facilitated an ever greater concentration coercive entropic power and control, forming patriarchal, hierarchical, warring civilizations. This progressive growth and concentration of entropic power has been the foundation of imperialism and industrial capitalism, and is culminating in our planet's 6th mass extinction of life. On the other hand, the syntropic power of living things involves synthesizing matter, energy and information into holistic growth patterns of reciprocity and exchange. These rhythmic patterns of energy flow involve self-regulation by negative feedback, and are spontaneous, decentralized, slow, initially inefficient, and generally non-coercive (free choice), but provide win-win benefits and unexpected long-term efficiencies. They are typically feminine. From atomic and chemical evolution within stars, to cellular life, geo-ecology and the brain, syntropic patterns are woven throughout our planet's evolving beauty as understood by indigenous worldviews, Eastern wisdom traditions (e.g. the Taoism) and modern complexity/systems science. These syntropic world views, including the synoptic gospels of Jesus (especially red-letter translations or Jeffersonian Bible), offer low-cost and practical psychosocial strategies to help us (especially men) to turn away from the seductively addictive path of seeking and gathering destructive power and control. Buckminster Fuller, who conceived the term "Syntropy" as a response to the static principles of design and architecture of his day, would surely embrace the growing appreciation of its ecological and moral aspects as well. I wonder whether you folks would agree that the syntropic flow of information, energy and matter through our physical and metaphysical worlds should be viewed as a unifying thread - its unnamable way? Perhaps recognizing the elusive patterns and principles of its pervasive presence can help us transcend the baffling paradoxes and calamitous predicaments of the Anthropocene, and help us advance toward a culture based on spiritual and planetary regeneration? What are your thoughts about Elinor Ostrom's empirical identification of strategies that Syntropic communities have adopted to effectively resist the tragedy of the commons? Could Ostrom's design principles for Common Pool Resource help us to transcend the multipolar trap predicament? [BTW, in response to criticism based on economic/game theory, she replied, "A resource arrangement that works in practice can work in theory."] en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elinor_Ostrom --- In dwelling, live close to the ground. In thinking, keep to the simple. In conflict, be fair and generous. In governing, don’t try to control. In work, do what you enjoy. In family life, be completely present. When you are content to be simply yourself and don’t compare or compete, everybody will respect you. --- Thank you for your dedication to sensemaking & meaningful truth. I look forward to any comments on this.

[@olivergilpin]

Who do you expect to read such a lengthy comment?

[@truepatriot6388]

​@@olivergilpin - I am hoping Daniel will read them because it is hard to say nothing and stand by as he struggles to fully grasp the fundamental source of mankind's many predicaments. His perspective is impressive, but has yet to accept that syntropic culture/civilization is the only hope for the Anthropocene, and that the choice to pursue this is available to all. This is the third attractor. Isn't this the topic at hand?🙂

[@olivergilpin]

@@truepatriot6388 sure, although I recommend email him then, he won't read comments probably :)

[@truepatriot6388]

@@olivergilpin That is true. Can you point me to his email?

[@olivergilpin]

@@truepatriot6388 if you're confident enough to be seen by him, you'll care to find it :) If you're hesitant, maybe that's why you left the comment instead. Have confidence and send it...?

[@LouisGedo]

*Daniel is a national treasure*

[@zardiac521]

Global. He also reaches some germans like myself :)

[@rustart]

Daniel is treasure.

[@TheSpoovy]

I found the suggestion that technology affects human values -- using the plow and disappearance of animism as an example -- particularly interesting. If technologies have inherent positive or negative values I would suggest that blockchains are likely to have an inherent positive value. The reason being that all they fundamentally do is provide veracity, at a time when it seems to me that so many of the metacrisis problems outlined in this excellent talk come down to a lack of transparency and/or trust (which I feel are two sides of the same coin).

[@soulforcearts]

Much gratitude to Daniel!😊❤

[@Mar108108]

High touch human connection capabilites in care and education.... interesting. I am really grateful hearing my refusal to go catastrophic OR distopian being supported. That yes, it is complex and profound and yes, it is not impossible. Thank you for these beautiful and resonant 4,5 hours of Part 1 and Part 2 of hearing Daniel's comprehensive vision. Mar

[@andreworci8684]

Wow

[@michaelsbeverly]

Wait, what? There's no Part 3? I'm confused...

[@ClareBoyd-f8c]

Rodriguez Maria Anderson Cynthia Gonzalez Helen

[@antonyliberopoulos933]

Thank you Daniel. You are going deep into the problems we face as a species. Governments and Institutions should take notice.

[@jimo4106]

Or maybe Governments and institutions should take a hike? None of our many problems are being solved.

[@publicdomain1103]

Need Ai focused on Natures laws, not Human nature. Separate the zion from the equation of Jewish supremacy notion.

[@RobRaptor49]

So, washing dishes here. I wonder - could it be that "the" answer is global in scale - something like NATO but literally and genuinely including the entire planet? I suspect rule 1 would be "no trans-continental import/export". Could a global body with the authority to dictate foreign policy to individual nations work? ... I suppose that depends on its military prowess. :/

[@mathieuraetz2041]

Simple question: i have been studying these questions for more than 15 years now…and it is becoming difficult on a psychological level as Im highly aware and sensitive person. How do you manage these aspects?

[@georgeitelhuber2325]

13:00 what about a third group, with the 5x multiplier across people, run by an AI with access to the whole information set, and the authority to act in the best interests of the whole? (with the caveat that this explanation is one sentence long)

[@ethanwalton2093]

Has anyone here had experience operating within a Sociocracy framework?

[@stegemme]

Rupert Murdoch 10 standard deviations from the norm. An actual agent of Moloch

[@farinshore8900]

I think that the greatest mistake made by humans is to accept the hubristic idea that we have dominion over the earth.