Incel Convicted For Planning Attack | Dangers of Unwanted Celibacy | Tres Genco Case Analysis

[@rullmourn1142]

It is good to finally see a parent that doesn't think their violent criminal kid did nothing wrong.

[@jodimarie379]

I don't think that is really a fair statement. I think a lot of parents are horrified by what their kids did. But that doesn't mean they don't go through different stages of grief and I don't think it means they stop loving their kid.

[@bthomson]

Yes! This mom may very well have prevented mayhem!

[@TheFakeyCakeMaker]

Mum did good!!

[@Jenn_80]

Right? How many times must we see this? I hope Ethan Crumbleys parents set a new precedent for parent responsibility of their kids. Maybe that will force parents to actually parent and pay attention to their offspring.

[@esteemedmortal5917]

She’s the real MVP here. Deserves a medal (though I doubt she’d want it; at best, this is utterly mortifying)

[@505WRLDclips]

This is what happens when you pay attention to the warning signs, so many deaths could have been avoided, bless his Mother ❤

[@saulthechicanootaku]

I bet it was very difficult for her accept that her son that she loved with all her heart was a criminal but she basically did was right and thus, prevented a horrible crime

[@Katkiwi25]

She did raise him.

[@fonzarellyplay370]

You mean when you don’t pay attention

[@christophergarza9118]

@@fonzarellyplay370 does he mean that?

[@mariagabrielle6383]

@@christophergarza9118 No

[@Dooza1998]

"Personal improvement is associated with a lot less time in prison." Truer words have never been spoken!

[@AdamHarlowe-sb6qj]

It doesn't work.... He should have accepted that the market ain't for everyone and left...... The fact he didn't spill any blood and has to due time for not taking action and overthinking it means it was all for nothing..... Im pro. Acceleration or anarchy so I am somewhat fascinated by the incels... They seem to be generation X, s worse nightmare..... Yet the failed sexual revolution that generation x ever so proudly flaunts created the conditions for their situation....

[@Cholesterol-w1j]

His involuntary celibacy won’t be a problem anymore let’s just say he won’t be anal retentive

[@shameDJ5]

​@AdamHarlowe-sb6qj that's no excuse. How are you going to be impressed by a terrorist group of people that have temper tantrum for not getting any drawers.

[@firstlast8258]

Put yourself in prison

[@Dooza1998]

@@firstlast8258Put yourself in therapy.

[@t6ra]

im glad the mom called the police and they actually took the situation seriously when responding. without that, who knows what would end up happening.

[@mirianakovachevic748]

She should pay him a prostitute. Problem of celibacy can be solved for as little as 20$ in Mexico.

[@t6ra]

@@mirianakovachevic748 those exist in the united states too, doesn’t solve the problem

[@mirianakovachevic748]

@@t6ra What do you think celibacy is ? This is fake problem and propaganda for stupid masses. Low IQ men believe ( because of propaganda ) they should befrend women and girls before having sex with them. Not having female friends is not the same as celibacy.

[@firstlast8258]

FTP

[@kevinmcguinness6526]

“Personal improvement is associated with a lot less time in prison.” 😂 I love this man’s dry humour.

[@macforme]

WHAT A CONCEPT: Do nice things for people... avoid prison!!!!

[@liamcraddock9539]

@@macforme Personal improvement doesn't necessarily involve doing nice things for people.

[@macforme]

@@liamcraddock9539 Oh you're right...but doing nice things for people compared to going on a killing rampage could qualify as personal improvement.

[@liamcraddock9539]

@@macforme Yep. But a lot of guys are too high in agreeableness or are pushovers or act like "niceguys" (to use the internet term) and don't attract girls because of it. I've changed and struggle a little bit less now but this used to be a problem for me.

[@sagenosnibor9173]

Right. The humor is what I tune in for.😂

[@renee1961]

I imagine his Mother was so scared of him!! I would be! Good she called Police!

[@charletteseaver5923]

and it is just very sad when a woman has to fear her son more than she fears for her son

[@janecoe9407]

WELL WHO TAUGHT THE MAN TO HATE WOMEN??? THIS GUY LEARNED FROM SOMEONE!! DID DAD TEACH HIM?? IF AS A CHILD THIS GUY SHOWED SIGNS OF MENTAL ILLNESS IT IS PARENTS JOB TO GET THE KID HELP.

[@chuckharding6405]

@@janecoe9407 Maybe you did.

[@lf9341]

@@janecoe9407 stupidest comment.

[@lf9341]

@@chuckharding6405 Haha.

[@camuscat123]

I picture a feedback loop… greater failures w women, increased animosity, social attractiveness to women declining… etc. so much more research is needed. That was so informative! Thanks, Dr. Grande!

[@Myuxi-i8x]

That just proves our point. Rejected by one, you are edging, rejected by two, and it's OVER.

[@zeyadib1211]

my life

[@mrconfusion87]

Vicious cycle...

[@spencerfoucher4333]

"Personal improvement is associated with a lot less time in prison" lol

[@tonygalati2672]

It really isn't, though.

[@Cholesterol-w1j]

@@tonygalati2672incel

[@conorfitzmaurice8959]

I feel for the mother, all most want is for there children to be healthy and happy in life, it took great courage for her to do what she did.

[@firstlast8258]

The numbers don't lie but liars use numbers

[@littleeva]

I went to college over 40 years ago. I had a lot of friends and roommates who were nice looking women; however the men didn't want to dance with them, or talk with them. These guys were looking for women with perfect bodies, they wanted women who looked like Farrah Fawcett or Christie Brinkley. (this was the 70's) These women were horribly rejected and yet they didn't turn to violence.

[@Star-dj1kw]

Great point! No one is entitled to a dating partner. Women don’t get the best choices and skip over the scraps. Men and other genders aren’t entitled to sex or companionship either! This Incel mindset is entitlement on steroids. It’s ridiculous.

[@FirstLast-bs8cb]

@@jhernandez7132014 so men can’t control their emotions because of their hormones 😂

[@petegallows5494]

J Hernandez - why? Have you done that sort of research? I highly doubt that. Also, just look at this dude and the rest of them - do they look like have high testosterone levels? Seriously? This guy? They generally look very average- which is not a bad thing, because average looking men have partners. These guys don’t have partners because of their mindset and their horrible personalities. They feel entitled, although they have very little to offer in return. Their fathers and grandfathers were able to find partners, for thousands of years, looking exactly like that, having way more testosterone btw. They just had a different mindset and weren’t basement dwelling manchildren.

[@oceania4681]

i’m sorry to hear about how your friends were treated. i hope they’re doing well now and are happy

[@_letstartariot]

And outside of college, those women probably found good men or women who were wonderful partners. Frat boys are gross. Glad I went to college with my then bf/now husband. Not that I wasn’t hit on my gross frat guys who didn’t care about what I wanted in life, they just wanted to get laid. Gross.

[@anjaxtv]

Good! I feel bad for young men that are maladapted and can't get any chances with women. HOWEVER no-one has the right to anyone's body!! Teach your children this please.

[@iciajay6891]

They need to learn that if they want a partner, they have to work on themselves. People are not psychic, and as a woman I know many men who may he incel leaning. They terrify me. Just in everyday interactions at work. How do they expect even open minded woman to feel safe with them if they are out of the gate being borderline abuse in there interactions with just acquaintance at work? I have had a guy who I barley know try to randomly buy me a $600 camera if I would just date him. After I told him I was not even straight. Then he has gone on to make work when he is there hell. It is on the individual to make there own behaviour appropriate. Not one anyone else. Men who are like this get a pass to often. And as a survivor of csa and assault, I think men are now waking up to the reality that they are being terrible partners and terrible to people around them. And instead of taking accountability and growing and to change, they just blame woman. Or anyone else. If you have agency, you have the ability to not be abusive.

[@anjaxtv]

@@iciajay6891 firstly I'm so sorry what you went through as a child 💔!! No child should ever come across a depraved individual that hurts them, breaks my heart. You are spot on in everything you said 💯!! I researched these men and went on their sites, truly disturbing stuff.... for example many of them think that the government/society should provide them pr0stitut3s because its their right to have s3x 🤯. Shocking and crazy but also a lot of really sad things, like them posting their s*1cide letters. We live in a world where women FINALLY get to choose who they want to be with, not all women but more than ever before and this completed shakes up the status quo men are so used to. Unfortunately for them women have standars and like you said, they should work on themselves but they just blame women. Scary world truly..

[@anjaxtv]

We have to catch them before they go beyond the point of no return. Obviously mental illness in that community is rampant and many of them need help. There is nothing more dangerous on the planet than desperate man that has nothing to lose.

[@marimari894]

I don’t feel bad for men who don’t work on themselves and who are entitled 🙄

[@shameronstar7220]

Come on ladies. Take the L for the greater good. You only got to have sex with him once just to keep him from killing everyone LMAO

[@StillNotMarble]

Elliot Rodger's dad was a Hollywood director, and Elliot was conventionally attractive. Imagine how unbearable his personality was if looks+ money+ connections to Hollywood couldn't get him a pity date.

[@GallowayJesse]

100% correct Reading Elliot's manifesto confirms this to be true.

[@phillumenistfilms]

Yes

[@mikemoggerson6651]

He was a short half white half Asian Manlet. He lived in a location where he was competing with tall Chads. He had no clout, wasn’t very attractive, and was socially slow. He had no chance.

[@pabbylink]

@@mikemoggerson6651 You are delusional

[@ScumfuckMcDoucheface]

@@mikemoggerson6651 Manlet haha That term gets me every time haha =)

[@XanderShiller]

I heard that on some incel forums, if someone gets laid, they're shunned from the community. Kind of the opposite of productive.

[@hidesbehindpseudonym1920]

I've gotten laid before and I still feel like an incel, I've never tried to interact with the community though, so they probably would shun me, while simultaneously making fun of the way that I look. Really a fun bunch of guys.

[@sethjoseph8152]

That’s a contradiction

[@XanderShiller]

@@sethjoseph8152 exactly.

[@Mouse_Metal]

Yep. They are like a cult - when one of them doesn´t fit the criteria to be in that cult, he is kicked out.

[@scifirealism5943]

Yep.

[@SarahDunlap]

I love the focus on research and personality. Tying it all together like that really helps to understand this peculiar group.

[@j.b.3502]

If you want any info ask away. I'm pretty incel and pretty much sympathize with these types of guys.

[@teru797]

@@j.b.3502 You're pretty brave for admitting this. The FBI is probably also going to be interested in talking to you lol.

[@mc_zittrer8793]

@@j.b.3502 So, what's your story, homie? What all would you feel comfortable sharing here?

[@mikemoggerson6651]

@@teru797 it’s not like it’s some “niche” group. It’s a very significant portion of young men who cannot get anything.

[@j.b.3502]

@@mc_zittrer8793 Well what do you want to know? Long story short, I've spent 16 years as an incel. Didn't know or have a name for it until Elliot Rodger brought it to the news but when I heard about it, I realized I have the condition as well. Anyways, they said "work on yourself" and "be yourself" and all that so I did. I tried for over 15 years. I in my early 20s got my act together, went to college, graduated, got a good job, saved money, got a house, a car, and live all alone. And as far as I know, I dont have a bad personality, nor do I have horrible looks although I wonder if people are being nice about it. I've been described as average looking. Anyways, throughout this entire time, I have not been able to get a girlfriend. I'm actually thinking of making videos about it and explaining all of what I did to try to solve my situation.

[@oceanstaiga5928]

I applaud the mom for seeing red flags and taking the concerns seriously. I must be difficult to call the police on your own child, but she weighed her options and came to the conclusion that getting people involved was the best options. She probably saved some lives by her action!

[@firstlast8258]

FTP

[@lnc-to4ku]

His mother calling the police most likely saved Many innocent lives! Excellent video, Dr. Grande!!

[@firstlast8258]

FTP

[@Mathieuacc]

​@@firstlast8258found the basement dwelling loser

[@MM-hf6om]

I never got the crazy celibate stuff. Ive had my own droughts in the dating pool. All it made me do was work out more , hang with my friends more , excel at work and play more video games. I think the problem is less about women and more that they have no body. No women , no friends, no family except maybe mom or dad

[@peachy_lili]

and that they go online and decide collectively that women are the reason, and continue to reinforce that ideology day after day to more and more people.

[@xminusone1]

Obviously. If they think that being in a relationship is the ultimate achievement of their lives, than they're clearly mistaken.

[@xminusone1]

@@peachy_lili Focusing on hate never served anyone well. But trying to be the best version of yourself certainly helps. I think with Internet, every village idiot found each others.

[@liamcraddock9539]

Having some droughts and having barely/ absolutely no chances for years and years are different things. They'll surely have different effects and different guys won't respond to these the same way.

[@shandya]

The difference is when you’re having your droughts, you thought how to improved your quality as a person: working out, socialize, etc. They never thought that way, when they got rejected, they always blamed the women/society.

[@walkerwife5305]

I live in Hillsboro and actually served as one of the jurors for this case.. it’s cool to see it on one of my fave channels now.. Glad they caught this guy.

[@gymnast1284]

I want to say THANK YOU to Tres Genco's mother! 🙏🏼 it must not have been easy to make that 911 call. Thanks to her action, a potentially deadly horrific mass shooting was avoided altogether. She deserves great praise. 🙌🤲

[@PatronErdos]

She is a sellout, there is a speciel place in hell for mothers like herself

[@firstlast8258]

Tots and pears 🍐

[@lindseyhudson1274]

His mother is a hero! She probably not only saved her own life but countless other women who would have become his victims. I hope she knows how wonderful and brave she is. She saved many many innocent souls with her ability to recognize the red flags and act on them.

[@JohnDoe-qm8ns]

And yet she failed her own son.

[@TheAverageJoe2014]

She failed her son, she may have saved others but she ultimately is a contributing factor as to why he was the way he was.

[@karenpayne1011]

Thanks Dr. Grande. Very educational video.

[@coreyledin-bristol7068]

The mother is a hero. We all owe her a huge thank you

[@coreyledin-bristol7068]

@No Soup For You Dahmer had a father. So did Gacy. Not sure WTF your point is. As if having a father makes a difference.

[@coreyledin-bristol7068]

Your comment was that he had no father figure....I responded to what you wrote. I can't debate you over things you don't actually write.

[@coreyledin-bristol7068]

And trust me I have done a lot of research on both examples.

[@Mr.Bardel4363]

that mother is a hero for puting her son in prison for life . best mother ever ...

[@g.ra.6829]

She is a hero and he belongs in jail

[@leylamoody3177]

Thank goodness for his mother! Excellent analysis, Dr. Grande! ❤️

[@christinebean3429]

The problem with incels isn't necessarily that they can't have sex. The problem is their outlook. They believe sex is owed to them. They see women as tools to fulfill their desires and not as actual human beings. Their entitlement is the problem. They'd have better luck with women if they changed their outlook.

[@matthewr7593]

Exactly. They're filled with so much bitterness and resentment, a lot of which comes from the feeling that the world has wronged them in a fundamental way. In the same way it's said that if you're depressed the best way to break out of it or at least cope with it is to help other people, these men would be happier if they saw life in this way as well. I don't like calling them incels anymore, because its derogatory and a lot of these men are in true pain, and I don't think making fun of them does any good, especially since many of them are just sad and unhappy, not taking it out on others. But these jaded men need help and support, and by learning that the world doesn't owe you anything because you're not the star, but that viewing human relationships as a fruitful, reciprocal situation where both people can get joy and benefit, would help them and all of us a long way.

[@han1660]

Yes, they seem to be very focussed on looks as well. They are convinced they can’t get someone because of the way they look. It’s not that, it’s their attitude that gets in the way

[@shameronstar7220]

That's why prostitution exists lol

[@derkeheath5172]

@@han1660 They also expect to be able to date 10s when they clearly don't have the looks, personalities, or life success to ever merit that. Unrealistic expectations because mommy told them they're special.

[@eriklarson9137]

As long as you refer to some women as hos, then using the term incel is fine. Otherwise it is embarrassing.

[@RinpochesRose]

These uploads continue to get better and better. Thank you 👍🏻

[@TheFakeyCakeMaker]

Cults and Incels are two of my favourite subjects, in some ways I guess they are one and the same thing and I love Dr Grande's take on these people.

[@xminusone1]

They are certainly dogmatic and have many things in common.

[@wakkowarner8810]

The main difference between cults and incels is that people in cults have sex.

[@pradyumn2692]

Are you saying that its nature's law that some men can never find partners and yet its man's responsibility ? that's not the excuse. We as a society need to find a solution instead of blaming and shaming men for inherent bias in the nature.

[@Wilbur-em1hw]

Nature’s law is the bs they made up for justifying their decision to ostracize, ridicule and target people they perceive as lower than them. We both know how society treats people that don’t fit in.

[@taylorkai4144]

“find a solution”? if men want to get laid they need to become more bangable. unattractive males are simply reaping natural consequences if they find sex difficult to access. what’s your “solution”

[@firstlast8258]

Speak for yourself 🙄 🖕

[@michaelplunkett8059]

Darwinian evolution at work. Breeding requires effort to succeed.

[@dazzlerweb]

criminals really should learn how to delete their search history lol

[@frankpaya690]

They should remember to pick- up their laptops when they take them to a stranger for repairs too.

[@hillehai]

@@frankpaya690 Hard when you're licking kræk off the kræk of a kræk-hooar.

[@zenawarrior7442]

These entitled guys are scary esp when they get guns. Everyone gets rejected but they can't handle it & blame others. Great points again. Thanks Dr G😊💙💙

[@bthomson]

Hi Zena - Why do people lump groups of individuals together? It is so obvious that no two people are alike! Hatred of groups is so dangerous!

[@rumham7466]

@@bthomson what groups? OP said “these entitled guys”, assuming they’re referring to men like the subject, incels, or men who can’t take rejection like the rest of us. And feel actual anger at the people that are not interested in them

[@bthomson]

The group they feel anger at is the "group" I meant. To me women are not a group but individuals who either like an individual man or not.

[@zenawarrior7442]

@@bthomson Hi friend😊 I was specifically referring to the incels who do consider themselves a group but yes another group is women. Incels are so angry & self righteous they can't see there are many non-shallow females who base a relationship on trust, love, many things beyond the physical. Its generally the immature men who want the young, perfect female haha. Always great to hear from you🌻🌵💟

[@zenawarrior7442]

@Commando Knetter True but also joining groups that down the other sex, like incels, can reinforce the negative beliefs, make people less reflective, prone to group think.

[@susannegardner3148]

The most unattractive thing a man can do is treat you like a potential conquest, earnestly trying to be something he’s not, then expecting you to reward him for his efforts with your favours. Then being angry and resentful when you don’t keep your end of a bargain that you never even made. It’s like a dog doing tricks unbidden, then biting you when you don’t give it a biscuit.

[@anderson-gb8rp]

No one is stopping you from chasing chad.

[@scifirealism5943]

I want to lose my virginity

[@anosh88]

Dr. Grande, the issue isn't just men, it's also women and their unreasonable standards. Luckily for them, they have an abundance of resources that can support them in their time of trouble, whereas men are just told to suck it up and that it's their fault. So it's not just an individual problem, it's a societal one too. Many of us who have a hard time obtaining dates aren't out there trying to hurt women, but women today lack empathy and many have become borderline sociopathic, only aiming at the top 20% of men and ignoring the average guy. This isn't just theory, it's based in scientific facts. The failure of men today is largely a result of the failure of society and the apathy and indifference of women. If this was happening to women, society wouldn't tolerate it. But since men are victims, not only do people not care, but they heap more blame on men.

[@PatronErdos]

You are not afraid to speak the truth my friend. The world needs more men like yourself

[@anosh88]

@@PatronErdos Thank you, I appreciate it. It's sad that most people today choose to live some version of a lie instead of chase the truth, but yes truth is very important to know and live out.

[@PatronErdos]

@@anosh88 The only way to solve these problems is to talk about them openly and not allowing others to silence your oppression and discrimination

[@anosh88]

@@PatronErdos I don't care anymore what anyone thinks of me. If women can freely express their grievances, then so can I as a man. If others see me as weak and pathetic for expressing my human needs, then so be it and it will show society's hypocrisy and hatred towards men which would be vindicating to me.

[@azazello1784]

I disagree with that assessment. There are plenty of women who are with unsuccessful men who are unemployed, drug addicts, cheaters etc... Many women could be attracted with charisma and other qualities rather than financial success.

[@pierregibson6699]

Why do so many men Believe they have a RIGHT to a woman’s a body or attention as if a woman is not a human being with their own BEING not just an object….but can’t or don’t understand the vibe that they give off as a creep to women

[@hidesbehindpseudonym1920]

There are a ton of good looking guys who think like that and get plenty of chances with women. Besides, somebody could potentially think like that internally, but externally give off no sign that they thought like that. It doesn't always show through. If women could tell how men thought just by interacting with them universally and without fail there never would have been serial killers with wives or adulterers with wives.

[@C_U_R_I_E_L]

Like why don't they just get those life like dolls? It's not a big deal . There is more than sexual desire at play imo

[@willnill7946]

@@C_U_R_I_E_L well why can’t women get a job instead of stealing their husbands money

[@Blackheathenly]

@@willnill7946 If you leave your tiny box, you'll see, there are millions of women who work and earn their own money. Many are completely self sufficient. Many women make more money than their partners. You pathetic incel. How about you take a shower and get out of the house for the day?

[@ember1794]

@Pierre: Exactly!! Bravo!!

[@bthomson]

My husband of 33 years asked me what I thought the main reason was for happiness and I immediately said " low expectations! " Some men can only imagine being with beautiful, probably unattainable women. Lower standards might help!

[@skylinefever]

Sure. Lower your expectations is great. However, that sounds like the motivational slogans about people choosing to be happy. It's not like someone has a knob they can turn down to lower their expectations, as much as people don't have a button that switches on happiness.

[@bthomson]

This is all true. But there are OBVIOUSLY only so many cheer leaders! But there are many more nice, friendly girls (women!) I would like to mention "Men don't make passes at girls that wear glasses" is as old as the hills!

[@goonzie95]

the reason incels even exist is because WOMEN are the ones who refuse to lower their standards. average men are being rejected by average women simply because women these days have inflated egos due to social media.

[@charletteseaver5923]

I think a change in standards rather than lowering standards..just semantics maybe..but i think wording can and does make a difference in the perception of value..for instance shift the focus onto what is really of value in life and in a relationship..the true beauty and gold is inside and is not always reflected as a bright and shiny surface..so, i guess looking for what is real, substantial and true..but if a man possesses no depth to his own character, he likely is unable to perceive it in another person..much less have any sense of true value..so unless he is willing and seeks to grow as a human being he will continue to look for love in all the wrong places..as the song goes

[@frankpaya690]

That works both ways

[@uutdiegodzilla3821]

The Y-collective - a German YT channel producing deep dives on societal issues - did a very interesting reportage on this subject. They interviewed, incels, social workers, psychologists and plastic surgeons and went to some of the incel forums. The whole thing really scared me. Asked about preventing violence, one social worker said: "Over time you will notice that some men just cannot be changed. They just can be stopped."

[@xminusone1]

The last phrase is very true. I've tried to talk with some and they usually don't listen at all.

[@catcoffee7958]

Very dangerous on society

[@judithbradford9130]

Part of what MAKES them incels is fear and resentment of the idea of having to change, mature, learn, EARN someone's trust or affection in order to access the use of their privates. They want access to some female's body as TRIBUTE to their being men, as though just being male implies the right to regular sex and adoration from SOMEONE they find sufficiently hot to count as a "chick".

[@uutdiegodzilla3821]

@@xminusone1 This man was working in a center that deals with men being violent to women in general, and obviously within the last decade or so increasingly more incels. And to imagine that these are the men that already seek help, and how big - and dangerous - the amount of men is that never do, makes it even more chilling! One of the incels the (female) reporter interviewed did not even want to speak to her in the first place, that's how much he loathed and disrespected women! He definitively was one that was unable to listen already...

[@mirianakovachevic748]

They should interview sex workers, not social workers.

[@AdvanceAU]

I've probably said this time and time again, but I just want to say that I wish you well, Dr. Grande. I really enjoy your professional standpoint regarding your subjects. Really digging the occasional attempt at humour in your videos, they're always worth a chuckle. :) Hope you're safe and well.

[@eriklarson9137]

Calling someone an incel in his title is super professional.

[@procioneintubato]

The subject of the video self identifies as an incel, so yeah, pretty professional.

[@reachingcoldmountainbeforeyou]

@@eriklarson9137 😂 show me where the title hurt you

[@briangarrow448]

I am surprised by the attitude that many incels have regarding what type of woman “should” date them. The assumption that they should date models and gorgeous knockouts is laughable. I know a particular guy from a former workplace who thought he was owed dates from attractive women. And he was definitely a 3 on the 1 to 10 handsome rating scale. And his personality was barely a 1.5. He wouldn’t admit that he was a very mediocre looking person. With a crappy personality. My sympathy generator just won’t fire up for this type of guy.

[@tinawindham6958]

Men can dress great, smell good and b a good provider without having to b a 7-10. Personality, humor is what I look for.

[@hidesbehindpseudonym1920]

@@tinawindham6958 people like you are rare, you can have realistic standards all you want that doesn't change the standards of most women these days.

[@briangarrow448]

@@tinawindham6958 Absolutely. I am ugly, balding and built like a hobbit. And I wear glasses. I’ve been told that I look like Wilford Brimley. And yet I have had an active social life and seem to have no problems finding wonderful women to date. And no, I am not incredibly wealthy. I’ve found humor and a positive outlook has worked for me in the dating world.

[@Gabster1990]

A 3 isn't mediocre. That below average.

[@MrAerohank]

@@hidesbehindpseudonym1920 Please... women don't have high standards. Most men simply just don't give 2 shits about how they dress or smell or look or present themselves.

[@cameronmiller6240]

I'm surprised it took so long for him to get arrested.

[@BucketHeadianHagg]

Dr Grande, I was vacationing on Belleair beach in Florida this last week, and actually met someone who subs to your channel!

[@sheilagravely5621]

REALLY!! Omgoodness, notify the media!! Wow...

[@BucketHeadianHagg]

@@sheilagravely5621 what was that all about? I've seen your comments before. You're usually nice.. What the hell?

[@__jadedmuse__]

I know a ton of people irl who also sub to his channel. It’s a neat connection to make w someone. 🍻

[@BucketHeadianHagg]

@@__jadedmuse__ agree! He has a really friendly community of subscribers 🤗

[@CL-lo4wd]

Thank you, Dr. G, for always delivering a thorough analysis in your inimitable way!

[@m.f.richardson1602]

Always interesting. Thank you Peace 💕🇺🇲

[@icoleman007]

When I was incel I only wanted what I desired because I thought I deserved it more than the next guy. Then I realized there are no incels and I was ignoring the undesirable options available to me. I'm sure there was a unattractive girl interested in him but he wasn't interested in her.

[@evelynwaugh4053]

Exactly. That's why the joke about not wanting to be a member of any club that would have you is funny.

[@xminusone1]

True. They only are interested in models and are so focused in being hateful than they don't even try to improve themselves. Improving what you can always make your situation better. Also, if they weren't entitled they won't be incel at all. Another thing: If you don't have other hobbies, can't take care of yourself and depends on your mother to cook for you or doing your laundry, don't shave, don't have a clean looking haircut, take 1 shower by week, no matter how attractive you are, you WILL stay alone because I'm not a woman but I know for a fact, that guys like I just described aren't attractive and these things are major turn off. Girls and women don't want a kid to take care of, they want a man to share a relationship with. That's very different. Take this from an older man.

[@scifirealism5943]

You are correct. I'm a former incel

[@scifirealism5943]

​@xminusone1 you're right. I was an incel for 6 years

[@scifirealism5943]

​@xminusone1 I'm still a virgin but I don't have hatred anymore.

[@ronaldgarrison8478]

It's natural for men to feel reduced self-esteem if they are not able to get sex easily. (Being able to get attention, and actually having sex, can be very different things, but that's another matter.) But it's worth asking: What are the influences that promote those feelings? I have a growing suspicion that our society has strongly promoted those cultural influences-in many ways, but especially in entertainment directed to the larger population.

[@vice2versa]

there's a reason mass shootings happen a lot in America.

[@ronaldgarrison8478]

@@vice2versa Are you being taxed by the word? Please explain a bit more. WHAT reason do you think it is? And what is the connection between mass shootings and sex?

[@mrconfusion87]

​@@ronaldgarrison8478 Having too many sexually frustrated men is NEVER a good thing for political, economic and social stability... 🤣🤣🤣

[@ronaldgarrison8478]

@@mrconfusion87 I don't generally respond to comments on videos from channels I've long since quit watching. BTW there are a huge number of those.

[@firstlast8258]

Soyciety

[@AkiratheWhite]

13:35 Really agree with this. By most definitions I'm an incel, but I've never felt a strong urge to take it out on other people in some way. I'm actually quite adverse to the idea of hurting innocent people. My guess would be that having little to no social interactions, maladaptive personality traits, and making poor personal choices will cause a feedback loop. I think the unwanted celibacy just catalyzes and amplifies the effects of other bad characteristics in a person, and gives them a scapegoat to blame for all their problems in life.

[@THE-id1by]

Glad you don't want to hurt other people, but what about yourself? Consider getting outside help, and if the help doesn't work out, seek other help. Lots of people don't mesh with specific. Counselors.

[@brianscott6574]

You sound like you have excellent self-awareness - give yourself credit for that! I wish all the best to you.

[@AkiratheWhite]

@@THE-id1by I'm an incel only in the sense that I don't have a girlfriend and don't have many female friends. Otherwise I'm pretty much the same as any old bloke. 🙏

[@brianscott6574]

@@AkiratheWhite Yeah, I hear you. To let you in on a little secret, girls and women (females) can also be extremely introverted/shy/insecure, feel rejected, undesirable, etc. I'm a female using my bf's phone. When I was young, I was extremely insecure. Sometimes I believed that I was attractive-enough, but if the male was shy, too, we tended to get stuck in nowheresville limbo. Also, I think a major factor with many young women is that sex is a very confusing issue (depending on how we were raised and conditioned, especially by conservative, religious mother's). We're bombarded with mixed messages - you're supposed to be gorgeous and sexy, but not sexual. Somehow that outdated "good girl/bad girl" dichotomy - still exists. Just a thought....

[@harsh3948]

@@brianscott6574 “Using my bf’s phone” Lmao you can’t make this up.

[@iexecutionzi8400]

Spoke to this man before he got discharged off the army through basic training. He always gave me weird vibes.

[@helenbirdart]

It's amazing how gainful employment, interesting hobbies and a sunny disposition can attract a mate! Thanks for your thoughtful and concise analysis, as always Dr Grande.

[@PurringBluzzmuffin]

If your employment is an even remote reason your other half is with you, end the relationship.

[@kina18]

@@PurringBluzzmuffin It's called reality. No one wants to work their ass off whilst their partner sits on their ass playing video games. Get a job.

[@PurringBluzzmuffin]

@@kina18 If anyone is with me for any other reason than they love me, I'm gone.

[@jakehiller6444]

@@PurringBluzzmuffin Lots of people meet their spouses at work.

[@kina18]

@@PurringBluzzmuffin To each their own. Being someone's meal ticket isn't in my plans.

[@cottontails9003]

Good morning Dr Grande. With all the information online, I wonder if Trey wanted to get caught before he committed the crimes. Thank you Dr Grande. Brilliant analysis and informative topic.

[@karifoto]

There are men who fall into a gray area, where they can get women but not the “quality” of women they’re convinced they’re ENTITLED to. So many women have experienced guys like this, including me. I’d like to hear your thoughts on this, Dr. Grande. Even guys who have some social skills can be horrible to women in every way, especially when no one is around. They feel like they’re owed attention & access to any woman they want. This can even show up online, with guys who feel entitled to receive messages from women or expect women to offer up nudes etc. I think these men are narcissistic. I think they see all these things in society that basically cater to their sexual desires, which reinforces their notions that women owe them…right down to the commercials during sports events on TV etc. I’m in Las Vegas & so much of this town is sending men these types of messages as well. It’s everywhere you look. These guys can be dangerous on dates too. And on top of all this, there aren’t really any resources out there to help women deal with abusers like people think there are. Stalking victims can find themselves in a really bad situation where the police don’t even do much unless an active crime like assault is taking place. I know because I’ve been stalked twice for extended periods. People don’t even want to hear that a crime like that is taking place. If you don’t have any supportive friends or family, things can get much worse. The types of guys definitely feel over-entitled.

[@__jadedmuse__]

Every word felt! I’ve been stalked a few times myself and the police do absolutely nothing. I’ve had my home broken into, peeping toms, I’ve been digitally hacked and stalked too. It’s exhausting and I’ve felt so vulnerable, exposed, violated and unsafe. It’s mind boggling the amount of men who feel entitled to your body, personal spaces and privacy. It’s scary.

[@karifoto]

@@__jadedmuse__ It is scary! Sorry to hear you’ve experienced all that too. That sucks! People think the police will intervene & get the perpetrator to stop like the unrealistic endings in cop shows or the movies. “Just go to the police”, people often say. And as you undoubtedly know, restraining orders can cause more violence against women & even murder. Sometimes I think guys who feel entitled to women on social media are only a few steps away from being aggressive or violent on dates or being stalkers themselves. I know not all of them are so inclined, but it’s a huge problem in general that rarely gets talked about. I feel apprehensive about trying to use dating apps etc after being stalked. The guy who stalked me was sexually aggressive in person right away, as if he was used to behaving that way AND getting away with it. I’m curious what Dr. Grande would say on the topic of sexual aggression leading to other crimes, especially after he mentioned it in a true crime analysis.

[@xminusone1]

I don't know if they're in fact narcissist but they are over-entitled for sure. These are what any father nightmares are made of. I've 2 adults daughters, 25-28 years old and it's something I have in the back of my mind. I know they're resourceful but they also know that if they ends up in trouble, they can call me anytime. It's not a new phenomenon but what's different is that nowadays, they can found each others in forums and messages boards, giving them the impression that it's normal to think that way. I have met some of them and no matter what I said, they don't listen. They just call you names ( that mean nothing to me BTW like "beta, simp, and other ) and beyond any reaches. They need professional help. It will make the world safer and maybe help them too.

[@jeffersonott4357]

I've watched a video about lions recently, and to hear the lion expert talk about how female lions need to submit to a new male introduced in order to try to build a pack. I think these incels feel like they are dominant, alpha male lions, and they deserve easy access to womens bodies, which WOW. It's a mixture of diluted think and narcissistic think, sprinkle in a dash of cruelty, u got Elliot roger

[@catcoffee7958]

True ..I pray you are Oki today

[@ronaldgarrison8478]

Some men have hostile attitudes toward women because they lack relationships with them. OTOH others have hostile attitudes BECAUSE OF their relationships. To put it another way: Starting intimate relationships is one thing; maintaining them is another.

[@scifirealism5943]

Yes. Both require risk and work to achieve.

[@aneartahatahaanwar1737]

This is exactly why Netherlands has disability coverage escorts. They provide one escort per month as well as way more money on their cheques there to choose 3 other days to hire them per month to. People who severely freeze up and stutter from autism or have physical disabilities like severely deformed bodies or things that make them unable to move around much should all be provided at the very least a 1 hour escort once per every single week their whole lives. Not having this stuff is extremely unhealthy for the body, and there are people who've been unfairly deprived their entire lives that are still virgins in their thirties and later which is evil to cause upon someone.

[@shawnnewell4541]

I have never understood why it's ok for men to reject women but not women. You are absolutely right Dr. Grande in your assessments. Life ain't fair.

[@thefemalefuture1]

me neither

[@goonzie95]

women rarely face rejection, men face it all the time so it's a lot more frustrating and sometimes a guy can snap after a certain amount of rejections.

[@shawnnewell4541]

@@goonzie95 You don't think a woman can?

[@goonzie95]

@@shawnnewell4541 can what?

[@vassilopoula]

@@goonzie95 how do you know?

[@jasonalexander845]

"Tres responded to his mother's concern by acting like having the gun was no big deal." His having a gun wasn't a big deal. Lots of people have guns. What he was planning on doing with the gun was a big deal, however.

[@adamkern3548]

Hi Dr Grande, can you look into the most recently released episode of Unsolved Mysteries on Netflix? It's about a girl friend who (I'm partly speculating) shot her boyfriend in the head while he was asleep, and then then dismembered his body before dumping the parts along a highway. Tammy Renee Williams is the name of the killer girlfriend. She is currently on the run and hasn't been found for a few years now. Her boyfriends name was David, I forget the last name.

[@karyannfontaine8757]

This sounds so interesting. I wonder if David abused her.

[@adamkern3548]

@@karyannfontaine8757 he did not, she was the abuser. She's just a psycho 100%. Normal people don't dismember bodies.

[@karyannfontaine8757]

@@adamkern3548 Thank you.

[@annazaman9657]

I'm more mystified about the first episode. Mile marker 45 one

[@adamkern3548]

@@annazaman9657 that one's pretty crazy, but I don't think they identified the killer yet, unless I'm not remembering correctly. But yeah I wouldn't mind listening to something about that as well

[@greenmedic88]

And a potential disaster was averted. This does raise the question of the difference in mindset between those who plan and obsess over committing a serious crime and those who never commit, not simply because there was external, timely intervention.

[@xminusone1]

It's kinda frightening. I'm not in a country where things like this happen alot but only one is too much. I shouldn't happen at all. But some people are beyond help. They can only be controlled.

[@johnhawthorn5393]

Sometimes incel behavior can be linked to autism spectrum disorder. So having social skills and personality improvement won't work for them.

[@Human1136]

I won't say I'm an Incel until I'm age 40

[@scifirealism5943]

I'm autistic and a former incel.

[@AVBNOW23]

Respect to this mother!

[@jonesy9035]

His mother is a hero!!!❤

[@DEPARTMENTOFREDUNDANCYDEPT]

"INCEL" is a code word for "All of my problems and my failure are someone else's fault!"

[@mirianakovachevic748]

No, it is a code word for : let us all pretend prostitutes don't exist.

[@brickofwar9727]

It’s a code word for “it’s over”

[@mirianakovachevic748]

@@brickofwar9727 For men it's over when they are about 75, for women when they are 35.

[@chuckyyes]

that's not true, stop spreading misinformation about incels

[@DEPARTMENTOFREDUNDANCYDEPT]

@@chuckyyes Apparently you have never heard of "sarcasm."

[@jg9301]

I'm an autistic woman and was an incel but goddamn when i decided to become a volcel i just felt so glad to be done with the pressure of finding someone.

[@LiquidSwan]

😂

[@HerveyShmervy]

You mean celibate? Sorry i hate when people use the term volcel its meaningless

[@nancyzehr3679]

Me too! People dont get it, tho. Sex is very important in our culture. Like money and cars. Im happily celibate! And debt free!

[@jg9301]

@@HerveyShmervy yes, celibate. I wanted to emphasize that it's voluntary out of habit ig. I'm from a culture where being old but single is looked down upon.

[@karyannfontaine8757]

That is a small part of life. There is so much more in life than just finding "someone". Not to worry, perhaps you are better off alone.

[@dvvidw]

The best and worst thing about the internet is that everyone can find other people who share their interests or views. If you have a toxic worldview, you will find others who will support it. The "radicalization" of really any belief has become very common (Qanon for example). Not sure how this pans out over time but it seems it can get a lot more bleak, unfortunately.

[@scifirealism5943]

Yes

[@icturner23]

You don’t need to know anyone in Greece to go there for ten days - it’s the cradle of civilization! But everything else about him was a creepy red flag so well done to his mother for calling him in.

[@valor36az]

Heroic decision making on part of the mother, saved her own and many other lives.

[@PurringBluzzmuffin]

What kind of mother betrays her child?

[@harsh3948]

@@PurringBluzzmuffin Good, her useless bloodline ends with her

[@Forgottenworlds777]

@@PurringBluzzmuffin I don’t see any betrayal occurring

[@PurringBluzzmuffin]

@@Forgottenworlds777 She narc'ed on her own son lmao

[@Forgottenworlds777]

@@PurringBluzzmuffin True lol but it saved lives and someone needed to

[@CoffeeCatsAndTrueCrime]

"Personal improvement is associated with a lot less time in prison" So true lol

[@firstlast8258]

Put yourself in prison

[@actiondork]

"He planned to kill 3,000 women but he couldn't make it past his mother" I'm dying.😆

[@Forgottenworlds777]

That the most amusing part

[@firstlast8258]

​@@Forgottenworlds777🎭

[@venderstrat]

I actually watch your ads without skipping forward.

[@Shane-er2fp]

When a child fails to feel the warmth of the village, the child will burn down the village to feel its warmth.

[@StillNotMarble]

When a child fails to feel the warmth? Is that a Freudian slip, or did you intentionally mean to say "when a child is surrounded by warmth but does not acknowledge the blessings and love he has, and fails to feel it."

[@nicholkola9975]

Yes no. Warmth of the village is like community… not entitled to sex with others

[@Shane-er2fp]

This is an ancient African proverb, stating that when a cognitive mind is neglected it will use its intellect to hurt those neglected them, and if it's a society they feel his neglected them they will attack it and burn it to the ground because that makes them feel better. Because they have felt hurt by others they want to spread their hurt. We don't have communities anymore that pull people in and make better systems we have a bunch of selfish narcissists that tell you to work harder to get where they're at when they stole from others.

[@harsh3948]

@@nicholkola9975 keep coping

[@Mouse_Metal]

@@StillNotMarble No. It´s about people who get bullied everywhere for not fitting in, so they end up mentally fu*ked up and seek revenge on their bullies.

[@schw0373]

I'm surprised you didn't mention any link between incels and vulnerable narcissism.

[@Mouse_Metal]

And autistic spectrum.

[@renee1961]

Good Grief! Terrifying! And planned it, and gave reasons??!!

[@bubbabroad9051]

I know, I was basically just thinking during this video, thank goodness he wasn’t able to go through with it!! And usually things like this only make the news when they do. Whew! Thank you so much, Dr Grande. Very interesting.

[@chilenapromedioRU]

I feel so sad for the mum, but I also respect her very much for her decision. I hope she gets support. As someone who has been in very toxic relationships and as a DV survivor, I think it's not healthy to blame oneself nor the whole opposite sex. What have worked for me is to focus on myself, what I want for me and take a break from dating and relationships. I guess the fact that depression lowers the libido helps too!

[@stevebradley8862]

There is a surprising word missing in this conversation - love. Sex is only part of a loving relationship that also offer companionship, security, friends and so on. Clearly this young man was a danger and wrong in both potential retaliation and no clue in how to find a loving relationship. While no one accepts this form of acting on anger, it would be helpful if women could be concerned with the growing trend of disaffected men with few attractive prospects, the majority who don’t act out this way. As a father with two daughters, I pray they will find a good spouse from a seemingly shrinking pool of candidates. With universities enrolling more women (mine is 60% women/40% men) and still promoting notion that women are disadvantaged while ignoring decline in males. The lack of compatible college educated men will not bode well for my daughters generation or society. This incel trend is one manifestation of men with limited prospects trying to cope with their situation - some acting out in much more angry and dangerous ways.

[@TheSunderingSea]

Adding to this, dating sites and apps have completely skewed the market in favor of women, who now have access to a national if not global pool of potential mates. Short, ugly and even certain ethnicities of men (Asian-Canadian and Asian-American males in particular) have an incredibly hard time getting a mate in such an environment.

[@scifirealism5943]

Okay

[@supermeansadie6753]

Thank you so much for this video! Can you do a video on the new Netflix Unsolved Mystery? Tiffany Diamanté was her name she was hit by a train in New Jersey… it’s hard for me to feel like this could be anything but a suicide but her parents and their lawyer seem to think there’s something more to it, the longer I watched it, it had me questioning! I don’t know the layout of the land but it’s weird she didn’t have her clothes found and she got 4 miles in a short time. I can see it both ways as I’m a open minded person. Stranger things have happened I guess, but there’s generally an explanation for everything! I could see how she may have been living a more complicated life than her parents know and mental illnesses seem to surface more rampantly at that age.. I’d LOVE your take on it Dr. Grande!

[@katalac]

Valiante

[@theMOCmaster]

it literally is a 'problem' with society/another gender if one gender is more selective though

[@penny4thought168]

Can you really blame them for not wanting to date abusers? Incels don't have any respect for women. That's a problem with them.

[@penny4thought168]

@@thismeaning9 I can see the Incel message boards dude. I don't have to date someone to see what they post online. You don't have to date someone to get to know them either.

[@francesbernard2445]

Dr. Grande in this case analysis I really like how you gave Mrs. Genco the credit instead of the paid professional investigators involved in this case for being able to determine that Trey's behavior leading up to his arrest was clearly a credible threat to the public. I liked your phrase used in this case analysis, "-the tendencies they already possessed-" too.

[@todo8328]

“Dangers of unwanted celib-“ so, whose responsibility is that?

[@aliciagriggs8531]

I always get a good laugh from your dry sense of humor!

[@Tsudkyk]

Their lack of self esteem is weaponized by giving these guys an enemy to blame for their problems.

[@anderson-gb8rp]

Women are sooo into short ugly men with self-esteem. Lmao.

[@jerseythedog]

The mix of humor with unrelenting professionalism never gets old! The Doctor is right again.

[@harsh3948]

He is dead wrong actually. Male celibacy has increased to 30% now

[@Monka83]

Thank you for another great analysis. 🙏🏼

[@alfredopampanga9356]

With half marriages failing , most divorces initiated by women who at one time professed undying love ……..and then being pillaged by the same women in gynocentric divorce courts , do you think, Dr Grande , that antagonism towards women may have an external component? Unrelated to male psychic deficiencies?

[@ruvikaltman7579]

I don’t see how that relates to incels?

[@alfredopampanga9356]

@@ruvikaltman7579 Dr Grande postulates various psychological characteristics that predispose to antagonism towards women and others that bring about rejection by women. I’m merely pointing out that there are factors external to an individual that will equally poison one’s attitude to women and lead to rejection

[@alfredopampanga9356]

@Anna crystal Wow, with such damning statistics why does every woman seek marriage ? Why do they insist on marriage ? Could it be because it’s the only contract which you can break for any reason or no reason and walk away with half the assets of the other party ?

[@alfredopampanga9356]

@Anna crystal Sure, if you equate one hour of female time stirring a stew on the stove to one hour of male time fixing a leaking roof

[@Robin-xt7yo]

Praises to his mother. See (hear) something, say something.

[@rItA589]

The statistics talk by DrG is so enjoyable 😍 I would roll my eyes at the guy and his manifesto if it wasn't so damn dangerous and deadly. People's lives were saved but it was a close call. 😔😪

[@vice2versa]

So this guy had to Threaten violence in order for you to take someone like him seriously???

[@doandroidsdream1748]

Right? Dangerous, yes but so very pathetic!

[@tamekkaknuth9612]

That was him with the police scanner codes. Thxs for the information. I remember that extremely well

[@bennero446]

This is what I think, Dr. Grande, having studied this phenomenon long and hard due to personally experiencing it. This will be lengthy, but please bear with me. You did a basically good job, save for a few things I would like to mention. We do not yet fully understand what causes such low attraction in some men, but I disagree that it has nothing to do with society at large and that it's wrong to hold society accountable in any way, or that doing so constitutes passing the buck of responsibility elsewhere. Firstly, you sort of made this point of mine inadvertently when you mentioned the economic nature of society that certainly contributes to low attractiveness in certain men. Many people in general will be born with a skill set that is simply not lucrative under capitalism. It's difficult to find a high-paying job under any circumstances these days, so some men are going to be "low status" in terms of earning power... which is a symptom of capitalism, not necessarily on the man himself, as he may not find a high-paying job no matter how hard he tries, especially if he doesn't know the right people and lacks skills that tend to make good money on the job market even though he may be making good contributions to society (he simply isn't being paid well for it). But yes, I agree that economic status is definitely a factor, though we need to keep in mind that men who have naturally high levels of attraction can often overcome this deficit, and women will consider him "high status" simply because so many other women want him, and their friends would greatly approve of him. Also, a man with high levels of attraction will obviously develop confidence and good social skills as a result of many positive interactions with women, so that will help things along despite his having a skill set that does not earn good money. Secondly, let us address the other enormous elephant in the room that you did not address regarding society: how women and men alike tend to react to men who have low attractiveness and are thus rarely able to find sexual partners, let alone long-term romantic relationships. Instead of showing sympathy and understanding, and making objective efforts to understand this phenomenon from a scientific viewpoint (as you are at least attempting here), they openly hold these men in contempt. And during the last 10 years or so, the rise of identity politics of the regressive Left has popularized misandry in a general sense, women are conditioned to be entitled and to react to unattractive men with hostility even if they approach them politely albeit perhaps awkwardly. This doesn't justify hatred, let alone violence, against women but it is going to increase the incidence of resentment towards the opposite gender, and this particular factor is entirely on society. It's certainly not the underlying cause of the problem, but it does make it considerably worse. You need only look to many of your comments to see the above played out. Yes, Trey *had* to be stopped before he could have a chance to go through with those plans. But note how so many of your commenters express simple thankfulness that Trent was premptively dealt with instead of any interest in understanding what may have driven him to such behavior, or any attempt to understand what causes some men to have such low attraction. That too is on society, and has become worse over the past decade for the reason I mentioned above. These men as a group, not just the few among them who turn to violence, are receiving little help or understanding from society, and a dearth of compassion. They are only shown contempt. Now, another thing you didn't tackle that should be mentioned here to understand what incels go through, because it's very important: they not only seem to almost entirely lack the ability to find sexual partners, but women cannot fall in love with them. So, they are denied the type of love and emotional fulfillment that so many of us take for granted, including even most men with merely average levels of attraction. This is no small thing, and with having to resort to escorts and sugar babies for sex and a "girlfriend experience" they provide being the closest thing you can get to a relationship, and you can see why such men become so troubled and disheartened. Now consider that so many people of certain political leanings do not even want incels to have access to ladies willing to offer sex for money. This is no small thing. As for personality factors, as we both said that definitely plays a role, but let's not forget nor ignore this particular elephant in the room: many men of truly awful character, including murderers, serial killers, and simply major assholes are often *very* attractive to women. Granted, not many incels would ever win a personality contest, but in many cases their quirks tend to be more annoying than threatening or truly indicative of bad character. Yet women find these truly awful men more attractive and "high value" than incels. Imagine how *this* makes them feel. And this most certainly says something about society too. Finally, while I fully agree that low confidence and poor social skills will most definitely contribute to low attractiveness in men -- to a great extent, in fact -- please understand that it's difficult to learn social skills and acquire confidence in this area when the physical aspect of your low attractiveness -- whatever that factor may be -- has caused you to have so many failures in this area over the course of many, many years. Self-improvement is important, as you say, but it's not easy to obtain it when you have so much going against you, including society's unwillingness to understand, sympathize, and support you. It's something you need to do almost entirely on your own, as many incel communities are obviously not positive places for men to get objective help, as many in those communities have not yet learned to make peace with this unfortunate set of cards they were dealt. Thank you again for striving to understand this phenomenon.

[@yagovmolotov5127]

high iq

[@obamabinladen7234]

Doctor I feel like you could've given better advice. Most of these men come from self improvement communities and become incels because they have a hard time improving their attractiveness and since they think sex is everything, they become suicidal. Maybe instead of telling them to self-improve for sexual reasons (because they already tried and failed) you could tell them that a sexual relationship isn't everything and they can instead focus on themselves and improve their life quality.

[@SkySpiral8]

I think that’s what he meant! Self-improvement is usually understood as seeking purpose, setting career/learning/social goals.

[@obamabinladen7234]

@@SkySpiral8 Sure but maybe he should've been more specific to guide them, of course he is the doctor I'm just giving advice.

[@Forgottenworlds777]

@@obamabinladen7234 That’s what Jordan Peterson is for

[@piperjaycie]

@skyspiral8 yeah another guy on here said how is a guy supposed to change his height or ethnicity? He went straight to that as the things women could have a potential problem with rather than the reality of improving themselves by personal hygiene, getting jobs and hobbies, seeing woman as people not just objects that want “chads”. If they think woman want them to change their inherent characteristics it’s no wonder they sit in the rooms and just get driven dispairing and violent over it. Because in their mind it couldn’t possibly be anything they have control over.

[@obamabinladen7234]

@@piperjaycie Incels see relationships as sex, that is why they are obsessed with their looks. Of course "Alpha Males" also see relationships in that way but it is advantageous for them since they look good. We need young men and women to see the real value of a good relationship and then this entire incel movement will be over.

[@liamcraddock9539]

I think personal improvement would be a great help. But as a young lad it's very difficult to find/ access. Most of the *actual* , useful, practical stuff is destroyed or banned and falsely branded 'misogynistic', 'sexist' etc... just because it helps struggling men. And then they're told to wear skirts, be some rejectable niceguy/ simp or "just be yourself" instead.

[@nkreseknowledge2241]

What stuff is falsely branded misogynistic or sexist?

[@liamcraddock9539]

@@nkreseknowledge2241 Teachings of masculinity, assertiveness, power and things like that which women reject men for lacking. These are branded as toxic especially as a recent trend. Dr Jordan B Peterson, although not someone who specifically offers advice and strategies for men who haven't been able to get relationships, is often demonised as those things. When I was around 16-18, I honestly and shamefully came close to the border of being drawn into incel ideology. Coming across Dr Peterson's ideas really changed my perspective, without insulting me or kicking me whilst I was already down... Yet he's made out to be some evil man who does the opposite. Hell a director said she used him as inspiration for a villian and that he was a 'king of the incels'... Ironic since he's saved so many people and drawn them away from that disgusting ideology.

[@cellansmith5124]

@@liamcraddock9539 wtf does that Jordan Peterson word salad mean in simple real world terms

[@liamcraddock9539]

@@cellansmith5124 I can just stick to 4 letter words if it helps you read it better. Have you got a dictionary on you?

[@cellansmith5124]

@@liamcraddock9539 sock it to me then go on we're waiting

[@j.b.3502]

As a true incel, (been this way for 16 years) thanks for your explanation. I'd agree with your assessment and summarization. Too bad there is no forum where people can talk about how to solve this problem. I think it's a growing issue.

[@sanna9062]

How to solve which problem? The incel problem?

[@j.b.3502]

@@sanna9062 Yes. Nothing good comes of a growing incel population. What was the other problem?

[@mikemoggerson6651]

I don’t think there is a solution. Female standards are rising. What most people don’t understand is that they aren’t rising to what they “should” be, it’s to the point where females are only looking for men ABOVE their value. 80/20 rule. This has always been the case, but now it’s hyper-inflated with social media and dating apps. Even average females think they are superstars because a lot of random dudes will message anyone, and thus, they want a superhero man. It’s actually quite funny.

[@j.b.3502]

@@mikemoggerson6651 You're probably correct for the most part. Still, I think if this issue became the spotlight of societies attention we could figure out a solution. I have ideas but hoping my comment gets more likes so people give their opinions first.

[@vassilopoula]

@@mikemoggerson6651 typical incel thinking; accusing women for own celibacy; why are you looking at insta, in first place? There are tons of shy girls out there, stop scrolling down your phone, take a step outside, smile, think positive and try to be useful. It's a good way to make friendships. Girlfriend will come later on, start by building relationships with other ppl on a healthy basis

[@SinisterScoundrel6562]

This guy is possibly gonna be a lifer and never got to do anything major. Goes to show how scared our society is, but pushes most peoole into acting out their violent fantasies.

[@makeshift_battlefield_music]

I think your closing remarks are spot on. Particularly the idea of self improvement as a way to escape unwanted celibacy. There are many pathways to self improvement: mental, social, emotional, physical, financial, self esteem etc. I just think that the willingness or ability for men to engage in self improvement activities is more lacking now than it was in the recent past. I've seen a lot of guys turn things around in their life, and I have myself too. It is very clear to me that I've had more success with attracting women after I made some big changes to my life. But I also see a lot of guys who just languish in self defeat, still wounded by things that happened to them as adolescents. Unwilling or incapable of making even small adjustments that would make them happier. Violence and unwanted celibacy are not directly linked as you pointed out. If it were, there would be a lot more violence in the world. But it is a gateway to the violence when other factors are involved, like the radicalism, or latent homicidal tendencies, or even cultural views.

[@Hansgame]

what if people dont want to change but just want to be themselves? isnt that what we tell our kids "its ok to be like you are" ?

[@makeshift_battlefield_music]

@@Hansgame well, I think you are being sarcastic, but just in case you are being earnest I will humor you. People are entitled to 'be okay with who they are' but others are entitled to their opinion of someone. So if I am unhygienic, I can't expect people to be okay with that and want to sleep with me. That is kind of the point of the discussion. Men feeling entitled to women's affection regardless of whether or not they actually qualify for it. Then feeling upset because the world will not reshape itself around them. So if someone is happy with the way they are, that is all well and good. But if the way they are keeps others at a distance, they have to also be okay with that, seeing as they cannot control others. If they want people to treat them as if they were different, and that desire is strong enough to cause distress, than they must become different if they want to avoid the distress.

[@johnkeane1419]

How does someone improve their height, face or ethnicity?

[@piperjaycie]

@john Keane All most incels would have to improve is Wash, go to the gym, work out, get a hobby, work on social skills and seeing women as people. That’s not from me that’s from the KZbinr Alan Roberts in one of his latest videos. Interesting that the things you list are things that people can’t change and if anyone did have a problem with those things that is a them problem not the guy trying to find a girl problem. But maybe that’s what you think are important to women and it’s definitely not.

[@konstantintheistanbuliston5392]

@@piperjaycie How its not, while you see tons of shit many datas on those things ?

[@BarryCampbell6822]

He'll be having plenty of sexual attention from low quality mates now, just not the kind he imagined

[@towpottsfam7631]

You're spot on well done Dr G 🙌

[@towpottsfam7631]

Wahay! I got love! Does that mean I can request a vid on ezra miller?? Need you to put me off him ( sucker for a pretty face! 😍). Thinking he's like the new Michael Jackson and was probably passed around Hollywood paedo ring as a beautiful and talented young actor. AnywY would love you to cover him 🙏

[@jlynn468]

A lot of times these men, though want supermodels, they want these most beautiful women in the world and won’t accept anything less.

[@zenawan2627]

Most of the time they are fine with an average woman. The average woman want chad and tyrone.

[@hidesbehindpseudonym1920]

The expectations of women have gone up so that men of below average looks have a harder time than they used to have. There are a lot of men who would be fine with the below average looking woman but can't even get that. A lot of guys who are involuntarily celibate don't feel entitled they just feel embittered that they can't get a chance.

[@derkeheath5172]

@@hidesbehindpseudonym1920 If they aren't given a chance. there's a good reason for that. They need to better themselves. Most women just want a mentally stable guy who isn't an asshole. Nobody is ever attracted to a pathetic person.

[@thefemalefuture1]

@@zenawan2627 you sure?

[@mytruecrimelibrary]

@@zenawan2627 ⬅️ found the incel

[@aurorincorporated]

This mom did the absolute right thing. I hope he finds the help he actually deserves and later in life, actual love with a decent partner (- instead of hate and sadness and isolation). Had he committed the horrific crime, he wouldn’t stand a chance in future. But... thanks, mom, for being a hero. :)

[@alexandrevachon541]

Another reason involves a possibility which I had just considered: unwanted celibacy could also have a simple explanation. It could be that male incels often tend to choose the path of least resistence and choose not to make the effort, simply because it is embedded in our biology.

[@zachattack327]

Couldn’t imagine steering my life into the ground over not having sex. There are plenty of other things to strive for besides a simple primal act.

[@sineater3919]

My thoughts exactly.

[@j.d.s.1837]

Food is not as important, I have stored enough at home. Can't imagine people who revolve their lifes around searching for food and getting violent when they don't have it.

[@Tony_Cardoza]

And if it's that important to you, pay for it. I dont think it's just the sex they're after though. They want partnership but are too maladjusted and insane to find it.

[@4cme199]

@@j.d.s.1837 too bad it’s not the same. No one would argue someone feeling entitled to food because everyone needs food to survive. However, sex, while a strong biological need, isn’t needed to live.

[@franke2273]

It’s not just not having sex, it’s having no female attention whatsoever. It is a biological NEED right next to eating, and depriving men of this can put men in a very dark place. It’s hard to understand this if you have a female partner. It’s like trying to understand the desperation of a famine when you eat everyday. A big factor Contributing to civil wars around the globe is having large amounts of single, unemployed men.

[@CarystheBeast_itrhymes]

forreal tho, isnt everyone involuntarily celibate until they find someone? And is the focus really on sex that these men want or is it more love/acceptance ie; "someone else likes me so Im a valuable person"?

[@MrAerohank]

Most people would just say they are having a dry spell or just hadn't found someone yet. Whenever you have someone who self-identifies as an "incel" you can bet good money that they are a terrible person. I also don't think it is just that they want to be liked. These people have a big online community where they all welcome eachother and call eachother 'brother' and bond over their hatred of women. For these incel types, I think it really is just the sex that is important to them. Sex and the desire to dominate women. Their desire for a relationship is only there so that they can have sex on command.

[@Hansgame]

nah its not just sex. its having a "normal" life and being taken for full. i got laughed at for stating that my life goal is to have a boring 8h job and a family to come home to. if even this is asked too much for in life , than i dont know why you should even try.

[@CarystheBeast_itrhymes]

@@Hansgame totally agree with just having a normal boring regular life. 😆

[@drobo01]

Most people but not everyone.

[@MrAerohank]

@@Hansgame If this is your goal in life, then taking part in the incel community is the last thing you should be doing.

[@MsSilverTulip]

Dr Grande, please can you cover the case of Cindy James. Was Cindy stalked and killed, or was she faking the whole thing like the police said? Did she hog tie and drug herself, torture herself like the police allege? And if there was a real Stalker/killer, which of the people in her life was it? A huge unsolved mystery to his day. I've asked so many times and would really appreciate your coverage of this case as a fellow mental health professional.

[@Forgottenworlds777]

Such a crazy case!

[@agatahb]

it's very interesting how most of these guys degrade women, yet live on their mothers

[@firstlast8258]

The numbers don't lie but liars use numbers 🤡 🖕

[@cherylcaardillo1702]

Ty Dr.Grande

[@ynp1978]

I didn't become involuntary celibate until AFTER i got married! LOL!

[@badxradxandy]

Lol

[@haggis525]

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@haggis525]

Rentals are widely available... just putting that out there. 🤔

[@nkreseknowledge2241]

😂😂😂

[@harsh3948]

Cheating is always an option

[@elosoguapo8137]

Rock bottom is feeling spiritually connected to Elliot Roger

[@zaraloveskoda]

You’d think an incel, who spends their entire life online & should know about the pervasive history of someone’s online activity, would know better by now than to search for terms like “how to plan a shooting” 😂 Kudos to this mother for reporting him.

[@Blackheathenly]

And what kind of 'killer' has to google the difference between a semi auto and a fully auto weapon? LOL.

[@firstlast8258]

​@@Blackheathenly🎭