Incompetence, Corruption, and a Rioting Mob: The Gibbs Carbine

The Gibbs carbine is fantastic illustration of just how difficult it can be to actually manufacture a new firearm. The gun itself is a breechloading, percussion fired cavalry carbine designed to use paper cartridges. It was patented in 1856 by Lucien Gibbs, and he was joined by financier William Brooks and gunsmith WW Marston to create a company to produce them. Marston made 20 examples by hand in 1857, and one of these was used in a successful demonstration at West Point in 1858. This led to a contract for 10,000 carbines from General Ripley in December of 1861.
Marston had a property in New York (called the Phoenix Armory) that they planned to use as their factory, but assembling the necessary machines and workers in the wartime economy of 1861 proved much more difficult than they expected. With not even a sample produced by the spring of 1862, a new contract was written in June, for the same 10,000 carbines but with delivery to begin in August of 1862. This deadline was also missed completely, and there had still been no deliveries by December of 1862. At that point, the outfit was bought out by New York Mayor George Opdyke, who was surely convinced he could easily make money from this seemingly simple deal. Opdyke was able to put in place a team more experienced in getting things done, and on May 30, 1863 the first 550 carbines were delivered to the Federal government and accepted.
Now things were rolling - another 502 guns were delivered on June 24, and another 500 were at the factory complete and awaiting deliver on July 13, when the introduction of Union military conscription sparked a massive riot in New York. The Phoenix Armory was defended by a group of police officers (armed with Gibbs carbines right off the racks), and when rioters attempted to break down the factory front entrance, the officers fired through the door. They killed the lead man, wounded two others, and the mob quickly decided to move elsewhere. The police stuck around for two hours after that, and then decided all was quiet and left.
Later that afternoon, the riot found its way back to the Armory, and burned it to the ground. The machinery, parts for some 6000 more carbines, and the 500 completed guns were a complete loss. The Phoenix did not, in fact, ever rise from the ashes, and 1052 carbines is the grand total that were ever made and delivered to the Cavalry. All was not a loss for Opdyke, however, as he was fortunately able to leverage his position as Mayor to ensure that the City of New York paid out a claim for $190,000 to cover the losses because of its negligence in removing the police protection.
/ forgottenweapons
Contact:
Forgotten Weapons
6281 N Oracle #36270
Tucson, AZ 85704

[@Fritzi2253]

A thief stuck a pistol in a man’s ribs and said, “Give me your money.” Victim, “ Don’t you recognize me? I’m your congressman.” The thief replied, “Oh, sorry, give me MY money.”

[@SomeDumbKid1]

The story begins with 3 dudes trying to start a company, it ends with an angry mob torching a weapons factory. I love history.

[@Chevypotamus]

"No corruption going on here"-The Mayor. probably.

[@DarkSnideoftheRainbow]

I actually found a video of the Mayor responding to the accusations of corruption kzbin.info/www/bejne/oHbFnWCroth5ha8

[@Commie62]

Meeoow, indeed.

[@teutonicbohemian]

I love how he talks a lot the gun and adds history into it. This guy rules.

[@drustybhackleford6972]

Gun Jesus

[@frederikclaeyssens9201]

And as Gun Jesus told of the tales back in the olden days, the apostles gathered around and listened.

[@omegamanprivate7132]

Frederik Claeyssens it is a parable, did you understand the hidden truth?

[@WineScrounger]

Often and eagerly

[@LeCharles07]

And God sent Gun Jesus to tell the people tales of gun history and the people subscribed to hear: and God saw that it was good.

[@dankdark974]

omegaman private Riots suck

[@derekhugh]

fucking LoL

[@gosonegr]

Came for the gun, stay for the story, be robbed by your Mayor. Classic

[@robdavideogamer4119]

It's not really robbery. The citizens burned the factory to the ground, they should be the ones to pay for it. Fair is fair.

[@thegoldencaulk2742]

Incompetence? Corruption? In New York? Say it ain't so!

[@willkriegforkartoffeln4878]

No, it couldn't be. Absolutely preposterous assumption.

[@hawks1ish]

Dude go back to trolling libtards

[@lukemillen7486]

Joshua Lansell-Kenny go back to having a sense of humor

[@andybateman2478]

Joshua Lansell-Kenny are you a New Yorker?

[@henrywood1356]

There is no corruption in NYC comparable to the good old boy network in these Dixie shitholes. Are you familiar with the history of firearms manufacture in the South around 1862?

[@christopherzarcone1363]

“Don’t worry we’re not corrupt, probably” The Mayor of New York (who looks a lot like the local crime boss but maybe he has an evil brother or something)

[@brandonbentley8532]

Elected officials in nys are so obviously mobsters it's like dressing a wolf in a sheep coat...it's so obvious!

[@semi-useful5178]

@Lil' Connor Peterson You obviously don't know about the political machines and vote fraud.

[@Sivartius]

@The Dead Peterson Kid Doesn't matter how the citizens of New York vote, there's enough dead people to outvote them every time. That plus the vote counters are the mayor's friends, and if you vote the wrong way, you might just get introduced to "Guido" and "Slugger"

[@greycatturtle7132]

XD

[@FlashHawk4]

Incorrect. The mayor is actually the crime boss's evil brother.

[@74groundhog]

Usually the firearm is the focus of the video but I also love the videos where the story behind the firearm is the fascinating part. Every once in a while you'll click on a video and get a treat like this one. Wonderful!

[@lightbluehaze]

The nonchalantness when he said “well doesn’t seem to be a bad gun and then the civil war broke out.” Got me so bad

[@oldgysgt]

I have a Gibbs carbine that I bought as a relic. It had been in a fire, and there was no wood, only a set of blackened metal parts. I Cleaned it up, straightened the Lack plate and the plate on the left side, (the fire had warped them), and then using pictures from the internet, made a new stock. It is now in working order, and even thought it had been in a fire, I feel it would be safe to shoot Black powder loads in it. I had always assumed the gun had been in a resent fire, but now I wonder if this gun could have been one of the guns that had been burned in the New York factory fire, and someone had picked up the parts out of the factory ashes and kept them as a souvenir.

[@derekstocker6661]

That sounds a very plausible account, really makes the tale of these carbines come to life, I once had many years ago a pair of Tower flintlock pistols that were welded together that came from a fire at the manufactory, no wood just iron and brass.

[@SStupendous]

Amazing, what is it WAS one of those that had been in the fire.... more likely that it was than you may think!

[@Dreska_]

'Eagle or possibly chicken' my first thought was a phoenix (as in Phoenix Armoury)

[@charlesprokopp276]

It does look like it's on fire, doesn't it? Rather ironic, considering the fate of the armory.

[@ZGryphon]

Maybe, although it's holding a bunch of arrows and an olive branch, just like the eagle in the Great Seal of the United States.

[@Dreska_]

I choose to believe its a phoenix because that would be one ugly eagle haha

[@howler6490]

Nah, its a chicken...oops

[@TheGhilamonster]

Great bedtime story, uncle Ian.

[@pixelkatten]

So the Phoenix Armory went up in fire? What were they expecting?

[@lemeres2478]

Well, the mayor's fortunes certainly rose from the ashes....

[@sailingmaster]

How does someone downvote a story that good?

[@b.griffin317]

anti's

[@allewis4008]

The occasional SJW rodent.

[@WineScrounger]

21000 views/9 downvotes. Disapproval rating under 0.05%, better than some public servants I could mention.

[@itsconnorstime]

Reb sympathisers.

[@Snubrevolver]

sailingmaster teh youtube

[@fscreations7373]

I love story time with Ian

[@willkriegforkartoffeln4878]

Oi, Gibbs the carbine! *points stabby thing in your direction*

[@xmm-cf5eg]

You must gibbs carbines! Tink of da chillrun!

[@perochialjoe]

This is one of my favorite kinds of Forgotten Weapons videos. When the story is more interesting than the gun. Great work as always, Ian!

[@French_Cumnuck]

These kind of episodes are my favourite I love hearing the stories behind forgotten weapons

[@Sabroe_ffs]

I mean at this point, this isn't really a gun channel so much as a history channel. Might be why it's the only gun channel i'm still subbed to!

[@arizona-4734]

This is a particularly good example of why I enjoy this channel. Interesting engineering and crazy backstories.

[@fastmongrel]

US Eagle.....or Chicken LOL

[@Sakuxxx1x]

Yeah that was funny, but it does looks a litle bit like a chicken rofl ^^

[@SgtKOnyx]

Could have actually been a turkey

[@shawnr771]

Its a chicken hawk.

[@Zdrajev]

I just love the stories of the weapons almost as much as the guns themselves. Very good, high quality and entertaining content! Keep up the good work!!

[@giorgigarsevanidze6334]

"...And the lock plate has this nice little U.S. eagle, or possibly a chicken."

[@DirtyHairy1]

I just love listening to Ian telling these stories.

[@OzarksWildman]

It appears the cartouche is in fact the Phoenix. Pretty neat.

[@benec5816]

Thank you once again for a great story to go along with the weapon. Stay safe

[@kkarnik03]

I have enjoyed watching your videos over the years and listening to the history associated with the gun. I think this narration was the best.

[@stevenandbobthedog]

Can we just all take a minute to appreciate this channel? It must be hard to keep content constant and informational in the same regularity that Ian does.

[@LeCharles07]

"Story time with Ian" is one of the best channels on KZbin.

[@moehoward01]

You're a good storyteller, Ian. Thanks.

[@filmfreak988]

I think that this is the best story behind a gun you've shown off, and you've told us some pretty crazy stories!

[@ianmacfarlane1241]

Gun Jesus has got the lot - you want guns, I got guns, you want history, I got history, you want stories, I've got them too.

[@padi5star]

Great story and even greater presentation. Totally entertaining. Thank a bunch! I hope KZbin keeps their dirty hands away from your work! Keep it up, please.

[@lnichols1111]

Well done, history lesson and a description of a historical gun. Good context.

[@Deftonesdsm]

Very good video Ian. You did a really good job summarizing that history. Id love to see a longer indepth history of gun and gun co.

[@lagrasta666]

Add weapons with history and you have the perfect video. Thank you Ian, that was a very interesting piece of history.

[@stephenhensley7004]

The history is great. Thanks!

[@PoindexterG]

I love this type of video! It's an interesting gun without any extra context, but the story behind it is pretty crazy and really interesting.

[@johnvanhul7799]

Great historical tidbit!!!

[@ILikeToLaughAtYou]

This title... is foreshadowing...

[@brianfuller5868]

Very good. Thanx for the video.

[@81steliteairsoft]

Probably my favourite Forgotten Weapons video still to this day. Love this story

[@peterisaacs1344]

Bloody marvelous.

[@REXOB9]

Thanks for the interesting history behind this firearm.

[@waynedaley7048]

Really like your videos. Keep up the good work

[@vaclavnikl6842]

What a story! Really enjoyed listening to this one. Gun's nice as well.

[@PABQ779]

Very interesting history. Thanks!

[@panzerzh9864]

I enjoyed this remarkable story for sure!

[@user-me8hc3bs7i]

This is the quality content I subscribe for

[@dandhan87]

Pretty hard to detect sarcasm in gun Jesus's words

[@jasonirion6664]

great history lesson thx ian

[@carbon4454]

Does anyone else find the bridge between the old muskets and bolt action rifles of World War 1 fascinating?

[@normtrooper4392]

This is actually my favourite part of firearms history

[@Dumbo8234]

Oh no, it's the american chicken! Run for your lives!!!

[@moosemaimer]

CHICKEN OF FREEDOM

[@George_Doc]

Colonel Sanders have a different opinion

[@vaclav_fejt]

That was a Kentucky fried lobby.

[@b.griffin317]

it could be a t-rex.

[@allewis4008]

Speaking of chicken, the Marxists want to put a carbon tax on your meat and eggs and have you eat bugs instead. www.nytimes.com/2018/03/17/opinion/sunday/carbon-tax-on-beef.html

[@billwillis3416]

Nice job on research, and good presentation.The weopons of the past really make you aware of the courage you would need to use a rifle like that. The reload is a little more difficult than modern-day . I bet there was a many soiled soldiers.Thanks Ian! Good one!👍👍

[@stompingpartridge258]

Cool story, thanks Ian.

[@nosaltiesandrooshere7488]

👍 excellent, thank you!

[@EvocativeKitsune]

The mecanism on this gun is very cool!

[@daltonmiller8216]

That has really excellent sights for that era gun.

[@Quetzocoatl22]

"And the lockplate has this nice little U.S. eagle, or possibly chicken." With a talent for deadpanning like this, Ian should be in showbiz.

[@MrAlumni72]

"er ... umm ... er ..." - Mayor Quimby

[@BillRoyMcBill]

Excellent story and a cool gun.

[@ferrusfylax]

Very cool

[@Noobish_Camper55]

This is an amazing story

[@stanthecomputerman]

Cool story. Thanks!

[@JohnDoe-ff2fc]

great back story!

[@MumblesMarbleMouth]

A fine example that rioting and looting doesn't do any good. The people will pay for all the damage that is done with their taxes. The stories that follow these old guns are more interesting than the history of that era.

[@tonyktx44]

what a beautiful little rifle

[@matthayward7889]

Great story!

[@Tripp426]

Ian's "oops" at 8:49 is perfect.

[@libertyprime3753]

“W.W. *Marston*” *intense breathing*

[@timadams3979]

A very nice gun for the era

[@ianfurqueron5850]

Neat. A bit surprised the auction price estimate is so low. I'd love to have this.

[@squirrelonmapletree]

One of the most interesting background story.

[@troy9477]

Quite a story. Tammany Hall at its finest. Looks like a potentially good design, but that camming system looks like it would get loose. The sight picture looked very good to me. No mention of caliber, but i assume it is .50. A .45 or even a .40 would make sense for a lightweight carbine- lighter bullets for less recoil, and they might shoot slightly flatter (say, 200 gr at 1200-1300 fps). Just a thought. All of these paper cartridge rifles and carbines are interesting. So many differences in one theme. The Sharps certainly seems the best, but there were some good also-rans. Great video as always. Thank you

[@knallis.hjemmelading]

I love this man

[@philiproseel3506]

The fact that Missouri was a split state, half union, half confederacy, is even more interesting.

[@roberttherrien352]

You are my favorite weapon related site. Your presentations remind me of the old magazine "La gazette des armes". You have historic,technical and esthetic information that make your site so interesting. Keep up the good work Ian . You are the best.

[@criffermaclennan]

Pitfalls, politics and dodgy dealings....what an unlikely combo 😂😂

[@scottybeegood]

awesome story

[@thelonerider5644]

That is the best story ever...

[@hugebartlett1884]

Actually,it is a very good looking carbine,smooth,pleasing shape,and well balanced. Just tough luck it all came into being at a bad time.

[@pfootball6363]

Damn you Mark from C&Rsenal. Now all I can see is the grain pattern in the wood is way off and the toe of the stock will break off eventually

[@budgetcommander4849]

Now *THAT* is a title!

[@RemusKingOfRome]

Great story

[@panzerzh9864]

"And the lock plate has this nice little US eagle... or, possibly, chicken" - made my day! ))))

[@gogou9489]

Ha4...love the part where he says " probably an American eagle or a chicken"

[@alancrews2066]

Cool.

[@SamuraiPie8111]

"I'm putting together a team..." - Lucian Gibbs

[@Bigrednumber77]

"Possibly chicken" xD Love it!

[@shoominati23]

Hey Ian, when are you going to do a Tour of Lithgow Arms? I'm sure they would allow someone of your standing into the factory as they want more international contracts and I hear that they have a good museum of all the arms they ever manufacturer dating back to the 1st world war and before. Would be worth a shot (pardon the pun ;)

[@highlandoutsider8148]

You keep pitching all these great film ideas, hope you get your cut when ones made lol

[@meenki347]

So cool video. I bought your mug.

[@jimkoonce6574]

Great story, I really like the back stories on the different guns, oops, with the new policies, can I say "guns"?

[@candidmoe8741]

I imagine Grandpa Ian, with grandchildren at his feet, ecstatic listening to his stories (children's stories)

[@kahlzun]

The bird on the side is likely a phoenix, as in "phoenix arms"

[@scottmccrea1873]

Perish the thought that corruption would ever into defense contracting!

[@murderousintent7838]

hearing the word "Marston" in a video about a gun from the 1800s ***RDR2 INTENSIFIES***

[@vojdanzaprov4643]

"Or possibly chicken"😂 Thanks for your work and making me laugh, in this case.

[@richardplacko1589]

would be pretty cool to see a modern repro in a modern caliber