Tyrion in The Winds of Winter - Livestream

[@cathrinehfurseth]

Roberts house words: I genuinely couldn’t do this without my patrons.

[@jamesaaron7211]

Cathrine Furseth ...And All The Rest Of It.

[@yeahman181]

"the short answer is...we don't know"

[@daviddynmo4865]

Thank-you that's very generous. Hehehe

[@3NDER24]

"Thank you, my lord of Lannister." He pulled off his glove and offered his bare hand. "Friend." Tyrion found himself oddly touched. "Most of my kin are bastards," he said with a wry smile, "but you're the first I've had to friend." He pulled a glove off with his teeth and clasped Snow by the hand flesh against flesh. The boy's grip was firm and strong. _George R.R. Martin, "Game of Thrones." Pg, 179. This part always sticks out to me when I go back to it, I truly enjoy a lot of the Tyrion and Jon interactions, two pivotal characters both together so early on in their journeys (as far as the book series is concerned). I find it so rare for Jon and Tyrion both to call one another friend, two characters who would never use that term lightly. Jon and Tyrion are destined to reunite in some capacity is my opinion.

[@petrinegordon]

Not too long ago read this. I'm on the first book right now.

[@210SAi]

The reunion of Jon and Tyrion in the show was probably one of the few things I hope happens in the books.

[@Nga_Babaye]

Did Jaime shake Jon's hand in the book? Can't remember. I'm sure there's something to contrast if Jaime did.

[@henrychinaski5938]

@@Nga_Babaye No I dont believe he does.

[@Nga_Babaye]

@@henrychinaski5938 It is not. However, I went back and gotten to watch the Blu-Ray commentary for most of the early seasons since the comment, and D&D claimed it was a scene that GRRM wanted them to include because he'd felt he'd missed out on the opportunity to add it in the books, or he wished he'd added it in Jon II (AGOT). However, they worded it. However, it's unusual, because other than needlessly foreshadowing that the NW is made up of rapist and thieves, and Jaime loses that hand, it really has no real significant symbolic payoff in the show. The type of payoff that I am considering is how does it connect Jon to Jaime's hallucinations after losing his hand of the Kings Guard and how they are symbols for the Others if it was a request from George, and it was part of earlier direction of faithfulness that never came to be. Just wonder if Jaime has a larger part in Jon's story later on in A Dream of Spring. If book Jon is Rhaegar's son, which he probably is, protecting or serving him could offer that finale bit of symbolic redemption for his perceived betrayal toward Rhaegar and his KG brothers. I find it more likely that he'll probably end up serving Faegon though, only to be the one to figure out that the kid is nothing like Rhaegar. WTF knows, right. Write faster George; we are thirsty motherfuckers out here.

[@bookchaser1103]

Thank you for all the work, Robert. Your content is always appreciated, but especially during these, our troubled times.

[@janeway73]

This is the shadow quote: "When he opened the door, the light from within threw his shadow clear across the yard, and for just a moment Tyrion Lannister stood tall as a king." I think it is related to what Maester Aemon tells Tyrion later, when he visits the Wall: “Oh, I think that Lord Tyrion is quite a large man. I think he is a giant come among us, here at the end of the world.” Maester Aemon even emphasizes that he did not say this out of kindness, it feels more like a prophecying remark. To me, these always meant that Tyrion is destined for great deeds, beyond what the world expects of him based on his reputation or background. Maybe he will do these deeds "at the end of the world", not at the Wall, but when a great catastrophe hits, "at the end". "Tall as a king" might mean just as tall, the equal of a king, someone on a level with the greatest ones.

[@murrayd3152]

Really enjoyed the rewatch! Robert, you are truly my favorite creator!!

[@elisebrodeur-jacobs5215]

I love you so much Robert. You were my inspiration to read ASOIAF and I am in your debt for ever!

[@Celebriel82]

With regards to Tyrion's parentage, I have felt that he's Tywin's true born son. I'm open to the possibility that Cersei and Jaime are not, that they were born from the "liberties" that Aerys took with Joanna. But not Tyrion. There are good reasons for Tyrion's dwarfism stemming from how closely related Tywin and Joanna were (they were 1st cousins). But Tyrion being Tywin's only true born son adds a layer of tragedy to Tyrion's story. Tywin repeatedly claimed that Tyrion was not his son and belittled his accomplishments when they were so much alike. I feel that this is brought home by GRRM through Genna's conversation with Jaime. She stated, "Jaime," she said, tugging on his ear, "sweetling, I have known you since you were a babe at Joanna's breast. You smile like Gerion and fight like Tyg, and there's some of Kevan in you, else you would not wear that cloak . . . but Tyrion is Tywin's son, not you. I said so once to your father's face, and he would not speak to me for half a year. Men are such thundering great fools. Even the sort who come along once in a thousand years." There is bitter irony in that Tywin's "perfect" children were not his own and he was only reflected in the child that he could not love. Do I think that Jaime and Cersei were Aerys' children, probably not, I mean there can't be secret Targaryens everywhere. People argue that Tyrion is a Targ because of his affinity with the Dragons (in the show) and his Dragon dreams, but GRRM has stated that the three dragon riders do not have to be all Targaryens. This leaves the possibility that Tyrion could be a Dragon rider without being related to Dany/Jon.

[@eric2500]

I think that Tyrion ranks as a true son of Tywin more so than Jamie because he is intellectually like his father. A chess player. Sorry, cyvass. But he thinks ahead in many directions all the time. Jamie can do this in military matters but he is preoccupied by his emotional struggles with himself and his sister, and his concepts of knighthood. But Tywin and Tyrion are thinkers and strategists - and cynics.

[@AllTheArtsy]

2 years late but I completely agree. To insist that Tyrion was not Tywin's true born son is to give credit to Tywin's actual self-delusion and mismanagement of his own house (despite his grand reputation and supposed ability to position his house well). Tyrion is Tywin's son and the tragedy and irony is that he never saw, acknowledged amd nurtured that because he couldn't look past Tyrion being a dwarf. By all but one respect, Tyrion is exactly the son he would have wanted- intelligent, politically savvy, strategic, equally charming and scary to others. Tywin's tragedy is that he grew up and built his reputation to strengthen the Lannister name and yet its his own children who will lead to the eventual ruin of his house because he didn't care about their needs. Jaime was raised to the the perfect heir but was snatched away from him by Aerys and would not be able to inherit or father sons. Cersei has no true born royal children and instead engaged in incest amd is growing more mad and paranoid. Tyrion has promised away the richest of the Rock. Tyrion being secretly a Targaryen doesn't work with that familial story.

[@carlrood4457]

Kinslayer is one of those things I wonder how long it extends when you consider all the civil wars they have. With all the intermarrying between noble houses, who isn't kinslayer or descended from one in some way. For example, Robert Baratheon's grandmother was a Targareyan, so he was somewhat related to Rhaegar, whom he killed.

[@realdaggerman105]

Carl Rood I think its usually same dynasty (even if you were 5 generations removed, a Stark killing a Stark would be kinslaying, even the Karstarks, to a lesser extent. ‘Kill me and be cursed...’) Or, first cousins. Youre the son of someone and your aunt was given to a different house, her kids would be considered kinslayers for killing you, vice versa.

[@210SAi]

Is this term clearly defined? I always associated a kinslayer with killing one’s direct/primary family member.

[@mikeraycroft9568]

Thanks for your videos, I fallow Preston Jacob's and The Order of the Green hand and your vids aswell. You guys do a great job get in the Deep storylines we want to know more about. Thank you

[@heatherbishop9391]

I’m late to this party but always enjoy your discussions!

[@eric2500]

Robert's colors/ shield would be books and a dog, quartered. In his three favorite colors, whatever those may be.

[@melindamaplewood8676]

You would be an excellent Maester.

[@pokachu7860]

Love this comment

[@arcanics1971]

Apologies to mods. I reposted my 'good bye' message several time by accident. Tried to automate it, it failed. Won't do it again. Sorry.

[@moiraferreira]

Thank you for the subject!

[@brettsgamingtavern7429]

A line I think supports Oberyn poisoning Tywin is just before Tyrion kills Tywin, it states that Tyrion found Tywin where he "knew he would be". I think this is a nod to Tyrion figuring out Oberyn's political machinations. Tyrion knew Oberyn was a poisoner, he heard about the poison at is trial, je probably knew about the breakfast between the two, and may have even noticed something wrong in his father, so "knew" Tywin would be on the privy.

[@jlworrad]

It’d be a nice full circle if Tyrion gives away Casterly Rock. Lan The Clever acquired Casterly through trickery when it was worth several fortunes and then Tyrion hands it off through trickery when it’s a huge financial liability.

[@whereuwannabe7796]

Why would you think Casterly Rock is a financial burden?

[@jlworrad]

where u wanna be Now that all the gold has been extracted beneath it it’s potentially just a big oversized castle with heating bills and staff to pay.

[@210SAi]

Tyrion is a convicted Kingslayer and suspected Kinslayer. I doubt he would ever be recognized as Lord of Casterly Rock

[@AllTheArtsy]

2 years late but... The Rock is not a financial liability. The show invented that thing where the mines have run up. And even if that were true, in a fuedal society, land is king. Casterly Rock would still have massive lands to grow crops and raise lifestock. It controls Lannisport which is one of the biggest trading centers in Westeros. And all the Houses of the Westerland pays taxes to Casterly Rock. It's not about the castle, it's about the land and its vast incomes.

[@81caspen]

I can’t help but think that “Where do whores go?” is also some kind of sting from his conscience about killing his father. It doesn’t make particularly great logical sense, but it’s probably the instant when he really and finally decided to kill his father. It was, in a manner of speaking, their final moment together where any humanity was possible on either side. And now he’s stuck on this side of that phrase, that idiotic, pathetic phrase that shows just what a small person Tywin was. And small as Tywin was, and despite the bond of blood, Tyrion had all the power in the world over him and murdered him. Tyrion made him smaller still, not only in death but in ignominy. In the end, it rings in his head because that phrase by itself should not have made a lick of difference, but he let it dominate him then, so that domination follows him now.

[@Trustworthy_McLegitimate]

I dont want Tyrion to loose Casterly Rock, but the thought of that castle becoming a base for the Second Sons is kinda cool. If it does happen, I wish Tyrion to be the leader of the Second Sons, like a beacon for the unwanted heirs and stuff.

[@210SAi]

I don’t understand why Tyrion would even be able to claim Casterly Rock as a convicted Kingslayer and suspect kinslayer. He’s a wanted man throughout Westeros and his only possible hope would be to get Daenerys on the throne to get a full pardon

[@stephsanchez1]

@@210SAi BECAUSE at the end of the wars, fAegon will be gone, Cersei and Jaime will be gone, and there is a Lannister wed to a Frey and he has relationships with the STARKS. At the end, he is still a Lannister positioned to inherit with nobody to contest it

[@JoniukasVader]

In Deep!

[@victoriagill1588]

This Australian just giggled like a juvenile at an Englishman saying "rooting for him". Feel free to Urban Dic the Australian meaning 😂😂😂

[@realdaggerman105]

Victoria Gill We know sex metaphors. It really isn’t that funny, it’s just an expression my man.

[@victoriagill1588]

@@realdaggerman105 hahaha, did i mention i was having a juvenile moment? I will take ever smile and laugh i can in the my iso present, I think we all can. The Americans get 'extraordinary, aluminum, taco' and i get 'rooting for him' 😊 Meanwhile, we all get the joy of Robert/IDG and his content ❤

[@Jake-hw9kp]

Hi Robert brilliant stream as always 👍 with regards to LOTR streams, Men of the West is a great LOTR based KZbin channel, a future stream with you both would be fantastic. If your looking to do some future LOTR streams MOTW would be a good guy to get on.

[@annawisdomsdottir4947]

If Jon has to kill Dany, I hope like hell that GRRM does not denigrate himself by having that schmaltzy Disneyesque scene where Drogon carries her body off into the sunset. OMG what a travesty the show was!!!!!

[@pinkbunny6272]

Just built a nice house on Minetest (open version of Minecraft), watching your lives on replay is the best!

[@wadegittleson1317]

Tbf, if Tyrion did not kill Shae, would she not have called the guards on him?

[@ThommyofThenn]

36:53 i think Tyrion has her too at the very end but has to pay her a gold dragon because Tywin insists even Tyrion is worth more than any lesser man

[@DanOReilly46]

Bronn also fills in for Illyn Payne (sp?) because the audience can’t read Jaime’s thoughts when he’s fighting a man without a tongue so no one can find out he’s training.

[@chelseaprater8821]

ROBERT, you mentioned doing a genealogy of AH ...you should collaborate with the channel Useful Charts. He does amazing family tree videos of real history and fiction that i think would be an awesome crossover. He's even done a more general tree of the families of westeros

[@SelphieTheNutter]

I think Tyrion is a Targayan but the reason he's so much like Tywin is because the Lannisters like the Targayans interbreed a lot with their family. Joanna was relate to Tywin if I remember right and that's probably the reason he's so much like him.

[@amandaofhouserobinson6707]

Great stream thankyou!! Tyrion is 1 of my favs. Also I sincerely appreciate how you refer to "whores" as sex workers !! Nice to hear! Thankyou

[@kevinkratovil563]

Just like Jaime losing his sword hand, if Tyrion loses anything it is his NAME, not his tongue. As a slave in Essos he loses his noble family name, and he must prove his value with his wits and cyvasse skills alone, without his family name as a crutch.

[@Baalslegion07]

I agree with this due to a few reasons. Firstly, its absurdly hard to write from the perspective of someone who is mute. Sure, you can focus on inner thoughts, but aside from that this isn't very interesting. Secondly, he has to heal forst after getting his tongue cut. That takes time and the readjustment, both psychologically and physically, would require such a long time-skip that I dont thinknit likely. Maybe if he looses kt at the end of the story, I could see that. A pained and clearly psychotic Tyrion climbing on a dragon setting everything on fire is a powerful image amd after that he'd probably die. Thirdly, he is already so absurdly limited due to being a dwarf. Cersei was always beatiful and had a certain amount of dignity and respect. That was takes away from her but she still is capable of existing. She is still a noble, an important person at court and can easily kill anyone she wanted with Robert Strong. She has found new ways to come off as dignified, powerful and strong. She created her own way to regain respect. Jaime also learned to fight again quite well and he was able to learn something. Even without a hand, he still is the sln of Tywin Lannister. Tyrion though, isn't. Je hasn't much else than his tonge and eits and without them he'd pretty much useless. How is ge supposed to grow without a tonge? Cerseis hair will regrow, Jaime was able to relearn his skill - to a lesser extend, but still. Tyrion loosing his tongue would be his death. Unless he gains a new voice or some magical abilities, he would be a wasted character. And lastly, he is simply not a character who really has to loose something major. He already llst his nobility, he already lost his family, he already lost the ability to use his name, since people are hinting him. He is now in anti-Lannister territory, so he cant talk himself out of anything. He is at slavers bay, as a slave. He could get permanently maimed with some face tattoos like the ones given in Lys - him habing patches cover his face would make him a fool, it would destroy everything he built up and heavily diminish his self worth. That is a form of trauma he could work through though. The entire point of them loosing stiff is, that theyreadjust themselves and are changed. Him not being a to call on his family anymore, him having killed his own father, him having no money and titles, this is what made him survive as a dwarf. Now he is in a hostile environment with nothing BUT his voice. Taking that away would destroy his character. Also, his voice is raken away, figuratively. He has no voice as a slave. He cant reason with Dothrakii. His brother killed Daenarys father, his family betrayed and slaughtered her family. He needs to find arguments that go beyond "Dont kill me, I'm a rich Lannister, my father would way you up in gold". Daenarys is smart but ruthless. So he needs to be actually smart. She us also not at all as loathsome as he can be so he needs to be a better man. He can be honorable, but he isn't really. He cant do the same pragmaticly evil things he was able to do in kings landing. So yeah, i agree. If he looses his tongue, he may be it has to be at his end. Otherwise he will loose just what you said.

[@cadewilliams3857]

You did forget about the golden dragon Tywin made Tyrian pay tiysha, and while I do think it could be a bit over kill on Martins point maybe if we do meet tiysha again it will be a key component to her relationship with Tyrian. Also just thought but another maidens head we see costing a golden dragon is Rosie’s at in the prolog of feast for crows

[@billybubba8344]

House words: Ahhh, da-dum-dum-dum. Great episode

[@silverauditore5949]

I am Greek and Tyrion doesn't mean king in greek. The closest there is is Tyrant which you all know what means.

[@Mizelei2012]

So King Midas is referred to as Tyrant Midas by Greeks?

[@TheJazzax]

Tyrants were kings in antiquity. There is more nuance to it than that but that pretty much explains it.

[@nimrodgrrrl]

I would add to the tongueless Tyrion theory that Tywin also lost the things he self-identified with; perceived dignity and his reputation.

[@210SAi]

Who’s going to take Tyrion’s tongue?

[@stephsanchez1]

That will never happen. GRRM already made him a dwarf. He is born with something taken away from him already. GRRM is also Tyrion, just more verbally skilled. That will not be taken away, ever. But, the message in the end is that tyrion, no matter how much hge tries in the end, or no matter how smart, will feel he failed not because he isn t smart or wise but it's just that Bran as the three eyed raven is the wisest

[@ATrueProphet]

Yeah he left nothing but a shitty smell in his stead...

[@ATLAoftheHill]

I firmly believe Tyrion is the bastard of The Mad King and Joanna Lanister. 1) Successfuly interacted with and used dragons 2) Tywins small comment about "because i can not prove you are not mine you get to woddle around with my sigil..." small comments like that feed inti GRRMs policy of "dont bring it up if it doesnt matter". Why bring up Tywin not being able to prove Tyrion isnt his unless it matters?

[@210SAi]

Well if Tywin can’t prove it than who will be able to prove it? Not saying it’s impossible but highly improbable given how far along we are in the story

[@210SAi]

39:40 where in the books is Tysha’s possible location stated as Bravos? I’d love Podrick to be Tysha’s son

[@bearislandjosh5279]

Like the Wall is a hinge of the world, Tyrion is a hinge of the story.

[@viperswhip]

I would like if the Gods laws were kind of enforced in a way that made us not entirely sure if it actually existed, so like the Frey's are all dying, but is that because of the gods, or just because, and leave us wondering, so if Tyrion is not a secret Targ, I'd like him to die in some ignoble way, even though I like him, because it would leave you wondering.

[@Nga_Babaye]

I just wanted to add that we create our own monsters.

[@ATrueProphet]

Tyrion standing next to King Bran in his unfortunately crippled state makes him as tall as a king effectively...

[@JAEWST]

"it's not a great plan but it is a plan"

[@oscargustaverejlander.]

Imagine if this video was 10 seconds longer...

[@Hochspitz]

Tyrion is certainly a murderer, he ordered Bronn to kill the bard who threatened him with the song, "Hands of Gold", shown on the show with Ed Sheeran but had no point there. It did however had a point in the books as Sylven was going to expose Shae to Tywin.

[@annawisdomsdottir4947]

How can there "always be a Stark in Winterfell" if Sansa does not marry and produce an heir, Bran cannot have children, Rickon is killed and Arya sales off into the sunset? All the Starks are damaged but who amongst any of the families mentioned here is not?

[@NELMOno1]

Tin foil hat time but bear with me: I'm always struck by how close tysha's name is to the lannisters. TYrion, TYwin, TYtos etc. What if she turns out to be a bastard of Tywin? That would mean that 4 of his children fell in love with each other....

[@henrychinaski5938]

I kinda like this idea

[@AlexOfTheRhoynar]

I like this theory; A tongue-less Tyrion would love his main skill, he's no Wex, cant show his wits. A swordhandless Jaime loses his accursed hand and also his skilled hand. And Cersei just doesn't have a leg to stand on....

[@annawisdomsdottir4947]

In the horrible HBO series, Bran is the King but appears "stoned" so perhaps the Kingly shadow Tyrion (as Hand) casts subtly depicts that he is truly the power behind the throne?

[@immattyice7669]

Do you think it’s possible that the mad king is Tyrion's father? There’s actually evidence eluding to this possibility. When Tywin says "you’re no son of mine", I believe that he actually meant it. I’m curious to see what you think about this.

[@210SAi]

Anything is possible but why would Tywin keep him alive or not let his twins know the truth?

[@immattyice7669]

O G not sure. Even halfway through this video he said he wants to make a whole video on it because of all the valid points. I made this comment before I saw him comment on the mad king being his father.

[@mikebrennan5923]

Robert miss and I said the Prince died. Meaning the leader of the wind blown the prince of Pentos. O btw Missandi is a Faceless Man

[@henrychinaski5938]

I think Tyrion will become the "villain" of the series until the war against the others is in full effect.

[@jords00001]

Tysha and Tyrion had a genuine relationship i seem to remember? But Tywin made Jamie lie and say he bought her for Tyrion.. thats why tyrion fell out with Jamie.

[@DrLesleyStevens]

Tysha was supposed to pop tyrions cherry.

[@ATrueProphet]

Apparently she did but he had to go last...

[@AlexOfTheRhoynar]

Also, on Tyrions heritage, I kind of think that none of Tywins children were actually his. His life is all for building up Lannister legacy but it was all for nought.

[@eric2500]

Tyrion is nothing but pragmatic, and Dany is getting more pragmatic by the day. Meeting of minds!

[@henrikg1388]

Your moral is very strange to me. Tyrion, a murderer? If I had a genocidal cruel psychopath like Tywin as a father, and my ex-girlfriend just committed perjure against me and then sleeping with said father, I would kill them both too. I wouldn't have lost a minute's sleep about it either. I just don't know what you're talk about calling him "dark".

[@martinbeaubien440]

I believe he is implying that anyone who has just murdered their father & lover will inevitably go to a very dark place.

[@Oddbisket]

Does anyone else think Shay is a spy for Dawn?

[@leoferwer1813]

I don't think "Tyrion" really means "king" in greek... I would say it is more like "tyrant"... but, who knows? Any greek youtuber here? BTW, Brenin is king in welsh... Brenin... Brenen... Bran?

[@stephsanchez1]

Tyrion has roots which means Royal.

[@stephanieb.8270]

Closest would be tyrannos.

[@stephsanchez1]

It's actually "Tyrian" purple, the color of royalty

[@davewade30]

Tyrion didn't kill Shae just because she slept with his father. She also lied to help get him found guilty of killing Joffery. I feel no sympathy for her or Tywin.

[@SHARKVADERS]

IDG!!!

[@annawisdomsdottir4947]

You got it WRONG...Tyrion treats Penny like a DWARF forgetting that Tyrion is a dwarf! He sees her as ugly physically and emotionally--less than a person. He becomes his Father Tywin toward Penny completely and utterly NOT recognizing his own loathing for what he is. Please take another look at Tyrion's ONLY relationship toward someone just like him. Often we HATE our reflection particularly when it gets too close to us. In fact, in scenes with Penny Tyrion treats her in the most degrading and inhuman manner reflecting his "protection" from his dwarfism through his monied life.

[@leilaonline2787]

Tyrion will never ride a Dragon. He is not the mass-murdery type

[@kaarlimakela3413]

So of Hand of the King is like the Home Secretary? - An American who has no clue what a Home Secretary is 😁

[@joekekker1581]

Why do you keep saying "Tisha"?

[@omgisthatvik]

But where do whores go? 🤔