Indian Pursuit is a Harley Road Glide Ultra Copy

Today I discuss the Indian Pursuit and why I think that its a copy of the Harley Davidson Road Glide Ultra.
#harleycopy #indianpursuit #harleyvsindian

[@larrycrass2641]

I have had Harleys, Ultra Classic, 2 Limiteds, 2 roadglides. experienced inner primaries gone bad, sifter shafts, 3 transmissions, 7 starter motors gone bad, engine mount bolts breaking. It's not that they went out it's where and when they took shits. the middle of Wyoming on the way to Yellowstone, New Mexico in a hail storm, the Sierras at night, Yosemite, Colorado, Hoover Dam, Harley 105th anniversary, Napa Valley. I also had a 2003 Polaris that my son rides now. the only problem with it was a clutch cable broke and a flat tire. Have had a Roadmaster, Scout and now a Challenger. Indians work for me. The only trouble with the Indian is sometimes it just wants to circle the wagons. I bought my 1st Harley because of the dealer network, realized that it was frequently needed.

[@markohd1075]

If I am expected to pay $30k+ for a HD, I would expect top rate suspension, full LEDs, and other stuff that comes on other brand bikes. When I bought a Street Glide, I had to pay an extra $3k just to make the bike safe to ride. Install full LEDs, better crash bars, and upgrade suspension. Keep in mind that HD expects customers to finish their bikes. Why would a dealer hand you your very own parts and accessories catalog upon purchasing a bike.

[@kidmoto22]

All fair points. I think that unfinished product or behind in tech is not uncommon in popular brands. I’ve seen this very issue with Subaru. They had been very very far behind in tech but that’s because the all time all wheel drive was bullet proof so they didn’t spent resources on tech. Maybe not quite the same but it seems to be more common than not.

[@snakebite6511]

I think its personal preference, ive had Indian, Victory & Harley very recently and sold my Indian's not because they are bad bikes but 100% due to bad service and poor network, i got tired of waiting to get things done, didnt matter if it was simple service, even to get the bike in for its 800 mile service was a multiple week wait. The problem with Indian dealership is they need to sell multiple brands including the full Polaris line up to stay afloat, the means that most dealers will have 1-2 qualified service mechanics along with 1 apprentice who are certified and qualified to work on an Indian so the wait to get anything done is weeks out. I had enough and sold my 2 Indian's Right now i own a 2009 Rocker C, 2014 Dyna Wide Glide & 2021 Harley Street Glide, all have stage 1 done and I just booked in my Street Glide for stage 2 cams and im getting in within 2 days. Try calling Indian and see how long it takes and stage 2 isn't even "basic" work. I bet it will take 4-6 weeks to get in. Te other part I love about Harley is the seemingly infinite amount of Harley performance parts available to upgrade, not because i have to, but because i want to personalize all 3 of my Harley's to my taste. Your comment of having to pay $3k just to make it safe is just stupid

[@lewisduncan2273]

How can a copy be better in every way? The fairings look similar but after that it's engineered completely different and better. All Harley does to improve their bikes is add more cubic inches every couple years. Victory\polaris\Indian engineered the whole power plant. Got more HP and similar torque with smaller engine. The after market is coming around. But the huge aftermarket isn't needed cause these bikes are ready to go. HD needs no more upgrades on their stock bike to get even with Indian. Indian comes with a better stock sound system, better suspension, led all the way around, etc.......

[@kidmoto22]

Aftermarket for any motorcycle isn’t needed but who buys a bike and keeps it completely stock? No one I know does. That said the Indian bikes are no where near better in every way. Check out the test cycle world did with the HD heritage and Indian Super Chief. The Indian didn’t fair that well at all. I would also challenge that many of the features like bars, hand controls as an example are not nearly as quality on the Indian bikes. They are not better in every way they have some features that exceed with each brand.

[@sesquashtwo]

As per my comments above...was looking at a Road Glide CVO...but now...will be riding out upon a Blue Indian Pursuit Limited (Premium Package). The 2022 Harley CVO is (feature and tech wise) a 1948 motorcycle with lip stick on and a $3,000 asking price paint job.... It's seen its day...hello Indian!

[@DJGENOTYPE]

@@kidmoto22 you apparently never took the Indians on a test ride. The pursuit is by far bounds ahead of the HD. Even an CVO can’t compare. Yes there are some similarities when it comes to the front fairing. But that’s where it ends. The liquid cooled 108 is on par with the 131. The auto windshield is another innovative item. Now let’s talk about suspension. Suspension is already superior as to add the amount electronic suspension that adjusts by just entering by the push of a button. So yeah, let’s pay 30K for a bike then have to throw another 10K just to get the bike to perform as it should have. HD needs the aftermarket support because it NEEDs it. As far as dealer network, Indians won’t break down as much so it’s really not needed.

[@ashebarley77385]

And it’s one thing to have aftermarket on handle bars, foot pegs and boards that kind up grades but damn Harley which I been a HD boy for decades …. I’m tired of sumping, oil pump/plates, suspension, compensator all being shitty quality!!!!! So not only do you have to change out other shit now you have to change out the entire damn motor …. So I’m thinking of going Indian superior engine and brakes right out of the box hmmmmmm

[@DJGENOTYPE]

@@ashebarley77385 exactly, both bikes may look similar, but looks is where it ends. The Indian is far superior out the box and you get a lot more for your money right off the showroom floor. You don’t have to pour an extra 10K in the bike just to get it to perform like an Indian.

[@nathanrowe7770]

How the heck can you look at a Roadglide and Challenger/Pursuit and say Indian copied HD lol. They are CLEARLY visually different. Indians fairing is a completely different shape. Completely!

[@davidknows3320]

Me, LOL. I have a Challenger and have made no mods. I don't plan any mods. The dealer network has never been an issue for me owning several different brands of motorcycles. I personally think the dealer network argument is overrated. Before you respond.....I own Harleys too. I absolutely drive 45 miles past my nearest Harley dealer to buy parts and get service because they suck soooooo bad. The crappy service dealers far outweigh the good ones. That applies to Ford, GMC, Volkswagon......Honda, Kawasaki.., you choose. Thinking you are going to get red carpet treatment at every dealer is a near impossibility. The looks argument? in a world of all but identical looking suv/crossover cars, it doesn't bother me that a fixed fairing bike with examples back to Craig Vetter's days of Windjammer, all share a certain "Look" Do we compare sailing yachts to the same standard? I honestly don't know, they all look the same to me. Seems they must have missed the mark there, or is it perspective? This is all in good fun, I enjoyed the video and feel you were fair enough given your self admitted preference to Harley Davidson. Also being fair, I love both my Sportster and my Road King as much as my Challenger, and my Yamaha with Vetter Windjammer on it. LOL

[@kidmoto22]

I very much appreciate your argument and prospective have owned and loved both bikes. I completely agree with your dealership argument. I “had” a HD dealer in my town that I never bought a bike from or had service done. I preferred a dealership 150 miles away and using a local shop for services that I don’t do on my own. I fully appreciate and respect differing opinions and laud the fact that you presented them in a thoughtful and respectful way. I would debate the merits of bikes with you anytime.

[@TobyNorthEN]

David, you make some solid unbiased points. I think the "don't plan any mods" is an exception though as well as the dealer network viewpoint. Not saying you're wrong or anything...but your view may be a unique diamond in the rough if you will. LOL.

[@davidknows3320]

@@TobyNorthEN Fair enough. I run a fair amount of miles on my touring bikes. Some have been better than others. I should clarify my "no mods" statement. Changing a seat or shield to me is not really a mod. Engine work or serious departure from stock does qualify. Check out my 05 Road King on my channel, that has been heavily modified from its stock configuration. The last 4 touring bikes have been the Challenger, Indian Roadmaster, 07 Harley Ultra Classic, and the bike I just cant part with, my Road King.

[@TobyNorthEN]

@@davidknows3320 I subbed and I'll definitely get to checking out your content!

[@toddfetterly5457]

I'm retiring this year and wanted to purchase a long range cruiser to ride off into the sunset. I've been riding a Harley Davidson Electra Glide since 2012 and have about 200k miles in the saddle on that platform. I've also owned metric touring bikes, but found them to be uncomfortable, yet very powerful. However, I would give up horsepower for comfort any day of the week for long rides day after day. Having said that, I really wanted to like the 2022 Road Glide Limited as it checked a lot of the boxes for me. When the new Road Glide details where released, I couldn't help but feel disappointed that all Harley Davidson did was slap some new paint on the bike and called it good. Harley Davidson is doing this at a time when technological advances are abundant. None the less, I was still willing to fork out some cash for the American icon and went down to the local dealer to see it in person...very nice but the same old stuff. Then, come to find out, in California one can't modify the engine because Harley hasn't received approval the California Air Resource Board (CARB), so your stuck with the stock engine unless you want to go aftermarket and void the warranty. This really caused me to doubt my decision. Suddenly, the Indian Pursuit was released offering everything Harley Davidson refuses to give their customers. For example, in stock form, you get: adjustable windscreen, heated seats, water cooled engine with CARB approved modifications if desired, remote lock saddle bags, keyless ignition, inverted forks, Brembo brakes, electronically adjustable rear mono shock, led lights all the way around, and GPS with weather overlay and bike locater to name just a few. It seems to me Indian is working hard for their customers and Harley is sitting on their hands for some reason. I like Harley Davidson, but I'm not brand loyal, and own many different bikes from different manufactures and ride what speaks to me. The Indian Pursuit speaks to me and I placed my order last week with a delivery date in June...cant wait. P.S I do agree the Challenger line does look similar to the Road Glide, but has looks distinctive as well. They're both good looking American cruiser in my opinion.

[@kidmoto22]

So the question remains….if the bike is better why hasn’t it grabbed a larger market share than it has. You named many features that may or may not resonate with all riders. I love the idea of two opposing American motorcycle companies as they should push each other to get better. What is value or quality in all the things you named? It’s a great debate!

[@sesquashtwo]

@@kidmoto22 Kidmoto22, (personal opinion)...the ONE THING...and yeah...it is a 'major player' for most including me...is that the old joke of what three things is in most any town....Answer: A church, a post office, and a HARLEY DEALER! Yeah...it's an old joke...but based on pretty much the truth. Harley has a spectacular dealer network, that one out upon tour, (or even going for maintenance from one's driveway) can get to...that is a 'reasonable' ride/distance' to the/a H.D. dealership. For myself, I have to travel (at the moment) 110 miles from my driveway to the nearest Indian Dealer. There is also rumor, that a local METRIC dealer wants a piece of the American Genre 'action'...and might be courting Indian to be the dealer in my area. That would still be a 60 mile ride...but that is a hell of a lot better than 110 miles ONE WAY! So...for me, I'd travel that 60...either with someone (my sig) following me, or taking the Pursuit for regular maintenance and/or warranty (if needed) on my folding STINGER motorcycle trailer. 60 miles x's 2 back to my driveway is acceptable...to own such a grand, modern V-Twin. So...I'm all set to place my order, 110 miles away, but then (hopefully, finger's crossed) will be able at a later date to visit the new 60 mile away, Indian Dealer for work and parts order/dealer visiting. That's the plan, Stan...that's that plan... :) Post Edit: Just got an update...(GULP!), my Pursuit Limited Premium was an 'expected' shipping date out of the factory, get this...for mid August (2022). Geez...so this riding season is pretty much borked...but...there are another 72 Indian bikes pre-ordered also that my dealer has to deliver...so they are pretty much in the same boat. It is, what it is...if you want to ride Indian right now. They are certainly not STARVING for pre-orders!!! Apparently not....

[@sesquashtwo]

I cancelled this 'fine ride' (in discussion with my wife...) yesterday Friday 22n'd of September) with my Pre Order dealership (no problem getting all my deposit money back...no dealer hassle in that..., and was sorry to see me do so, for obvious reasons (!)...) because we were advised by my Pre Order dealership that my two week ago Pre Order for a 2022 Pursuit Limited Premium Package would be (with ???? marks, moving target!) delivered by around mid August, early September...and that just did not sit well with my wife and I. Heck, why not just order a 2023 (in January) and hope to get it by April/May for a full Great Lakes riding season Warranty Shake Down. So, as I said, we are just fine with our current large bore, V-Twin ride...and will be happy to remain with it...and I might 'Bucket List' buy, a Indian Pursuit, when I can finally see one, (to sit on...test ride...) at a Indian Dealer...and no longer be in the Pre Order (reasonable) delivery que' lottery... Harley Davidson didn't all of a sudden become 'chopped liver' only because another fine V-Twin Tour has come onto the scene. Our 45,000 trouble free miles upon our current ride emphasizes that...and the only warranty work we have needed done, was a front brake switch that was sticking on, and cancelling CRUISE, and a weak starter motor that was replaced ( warranty/no owner cost) with a 5 magnet induction field, that really now speaks to the task of bringing those two jugs to life, with complete reliability. We are quite happy to stay riding within the H.D. Road Glide culture. So, that's the story we are sticking to...good, bad, or indifferent, as a good friend likes to often quote, LOL. Cheers!

[@snakebite6511]

@@sesquashtwo it would not surprise me to see Harley come out with a larger version of the Revolution Max engine, probably not this year; however, I am expecting to see the new water cooled performance tuned engine in a 2023 CVO Street/Road Glide 1st then filter down to the "Specials" Thats ok with me, i will but a CVO to add to my current stable of 2009 Rocker C, 2014 Dyna Wide Glide and 2021 Street Glide, i think a 2023 CVO Road Glide would be a nice addition especially with the revolution max engine. I could also be wrong as they have come out with the Street/Road Glide ST models which tells me they are clearing out the 117 engines and we will probably see the 2023 Street/Road Glide ST with a Revolution Max engine, either way, im getting one when it comes out.

[@sesquashtwo]

@@snakebite6511 Hey, Snake Bite...well, we are happy to still ride our 2021 Roadie...and as it truly has not given us a 'honest' reason to look to replace it...only the (Bucket List) syndrome acting on me, mostly...for my wife loves the Roadie...and said...why not just we use the difference in $$$ to go/buy Indian, in the actual road time and vacations we take, two up. Snake Bite...honestly...with the Road Glide not a quality/running issue...there IS no argument I can mount to that statement....so....lol....until further notice, we stay in the (happily to do so...!) H.D. brother/sister-hood. No problem...was just exercising my 'Bucket List' when ordering the Pursuit, two weeks ago. I'm over that now, as to doing my own due diligence on the points you brought up a couple of days ago. We're good...truly good...Harley...ride on!

[@brucemajor8812]

I follow a lot of Channels yours is best. Keep up the good work. Can't wait til the next one.

[@kidmoto22]

Wow…that’s a huge compliment. Thanks man…👊🏼

[@cowboyandindians4586]

I have wanted a indian from being a kid when the Indians came out i could not afford one I bought a 2015 kawasaki Vulcan Voyager loved that bike had zero problems in 5 years 45k miles i got my for my dream bike 2019 roadmaster had every mode I want + a 2000 watt stereo system i would not of done but if some playing rap music i can shut them down i traded my first new vehicle the kawasaki for my dream bike but I will tell when the roadmaster paid off I have another kawasaki Voyager I love your your guys podcast i am all most done with season 2 and I wish I could found you guys from day one you guys are my life line i am a truck driver stuck working away from home and my bike and my wife fighting cancer and you guys keep me from lossing my shit and I started my own channel but find it so hard when I am away from everything that matter so thank you guys Cowboy and Indians

[@kidmoto22]

So glad we can be a little part of your sanity. Keep you head up brother and the rubber side down….👊🏼

[@dysfunctionalveteranese4905]

Great video and I enjoy your content enough to have just subscribed to your channel. I am a rider that started with Harleys over 20 yrs ago and still own all three Harleys I purchased over those years. Love the bikes and was one of those Harley guys that tried to knock Indian Motorcycles for several years after they first hit the road under Polaris in 13. All that was before finally walking into my first Indian dealership two years ago and wanting to see for myself if Indian was all of the negative hype I encountered among Harley-Davidson riders I was around at dealerships and rides. Two years later and 8 months on an Indian, I really don't see myself going back to Harley as a customer. For me the tech, performance, and yes the fit and finish (JMO), weighs heavily in Indian's favor for my money. Just ordered the Pursuit and am looking forward to riding it to Sturgis in a few months.

[@kidmoto22]

It’s so interesting…I can find as many people on both sides…I love HD as that’s been my legacy. That said having another “American” motorcycle company is going to benefit all of us enthusiasts long term. Thank you for watching and for subbing much appreciated. I also appreciate the respectful information. I always appreciate when people can disagree and yet do so to creat more conversation and not just be rude…👊🏼

[@BrewTownBiker]

Had both, Challenger, they have a longer wheelbase smoother ride, Roadglide is more nimble, Different bikes different ride

[@kidmoto22]

Thanks for the rider input! I’ve not ridden a challenger but the Indian dealer doesn’t do test rides

[@havokmdk2181]

I think hes way off with his decision but but the key factor they're giving you more for the same price which is a great thing for the consumer. Now there's only 2 bikes I want the Indian pursuit and a 2020 Yamaha star venture

[@sesquashtwo]

Both bikes, the Indian Pursuit Limited (Premium Package) (you'd need that to come near the 2021 Yamaha Star Venture Transcontinental) are great fully featured (modern) visons of Grand Tour large bore V'Twin motorcycles...but you need to know one thing. Yamaha has abandoned the SVTC (as it is now E.O.L. End of Life) and the last model year, is 2021. There are no 2021's left in the Yamaha North American Warehouse, and only those still at a dealership will be available for sale. But...that being stated, Yamaha will produce all the parts for that bike for the next 12 years, and the bike comes with the longest standard warranty on the market...a full 5 years, with no added premium to pay. So, even if it is no longer being produced...with a five year warranty (unlimited mileage) and 12 O.E.M years of parts...still a great choice alongside the Indian Pursuit Limited (Premium Package). Price wise, and feature set wise, nothing out there compares (as stock) to the Yamaha SVTC. Nothing for it has features not even offered on either a Harley, Honda, BMW, Indian...on any model.

[@algonzalez9425]

You say that if they take away the technology and performance found in the Pursuit, you have a Road Glide...well I'll take the Pursuit with it's superior technology and performance over any HD everyday and twice on Sunday. HD let me down in every way imaginable when my 2017 CVO Ultra sumped twice in 9 months...bought my 2020 Roadmaster without a test ride cuz I was heading to Sturgis. Love the 116. I do have my order in for a Pursuit Darkhorse in Quartz Gray. My HD friends can barely keep up with me know. They'll have no chance once I get my new ride...

[@sesquashtwo]

Enjoy that beautiful choice, when you receive it~! I'm jealous!

[@Rickolee]

I agree that Indian is trying to copy some of Harley's designs but now the new Lowrider ST fairing looks just like a Challenger's fairing.

[@bradmerrill7134]

Had a CVO RG now happy to be on a Challenger, so much better!

[@sesquashtwo]

Was looking last month at a 2022 CVO Road Glide...and thank gawd, I didn't swing into the Sale Manager's office....getting a 2022 Indian Pursuit Limited (Premium Package) in Blue...saving $$$'s of money...and tech wise...like I was going to buy a 1948 motorcycle with 2022 lip stick on, ...and stepped up to a true 2022 V-Twin model, and accompanying tech/feature list....WOW!

[@bradmerrill7134]

@@sesquashtwo you won't be sorry brother!

[@sesquashtwo]

@@bradmerrill7134 Looking REALLY forward to this ride... :)

[@jonlowing7907]

I don't understand the thinking behind marketing this as a distinct and separate model from the Challenger as opposed to a variant such as the standard, or Dark Horse, or Limited. Given that the Challenger has established itself as the premium performance bagger in the market, shouldn't the Pursuit have been designated something like the Challenger Nomad? 'Pursuit' makes me think that Polaris/Indian have their eyes on the police bike market in the U.S. And why not; the Challenger's an eminently suitable vehicle for it.

[@kidmoto22]

That couple also account for the naming of the bike for sure. It truly is a variant like HD has an Ultra or Special with different features. I had not thought of the police bike angle but twitch the name makes perfect sense

[@kerrymcclure7503]

When Polaris started building Indians Chieftain they did not sale very well so they redesigned to look more like a Street Glide. Maybe they just didn't want to try something different on the Challenger.

[@kidmoto22]

Yes to move the bike I believe they appealed to what the consumers already liked.

[@albertdavis8036]

Soooooooooo if you want to pay more and get less buy a Harley? Got it. 😂😂😂

[@kidmoto22]

That’s for sure what I said….👍🏼

[@johnnydangerously7186]

Exactly alike except for suspension, power, technology, quality. Well on second thought maybe not so much.

[@kidmoto22]

I’ll give you the first three. Quality is where I’d argue that point. The Indian bikes do not exceed HD in quality. They lack the fit and finish of HD. That said the competition is great for us as consumers.

[@johnnydangerously7186]

@@kidmoto22 let’s just agree to disagree on quality. My last HD was a 05 Dyna WG and I was always running down oil leaks with that bike. My brother-in-law had a brand new 2017 RG when the tranny had to be replaced with less than 200 miles on it. As for me, Indians don’t leak oil and after owning 2 of them over past 5 years have more than proven them to be quality machines. But I’m not hear to change anybodies mind just sharing my experiences.

[@kidmoto22]

@@johnnydangerously7186 Absolutely appreciate the feedback. I’ve got close to 22k on my bike and it has ran flawlessly for all of those miles. Personal experience shapes our opinions for sure. Thanks for sharing and doing so to create dialog and respectful debate…..👊🏼

[@HarleyGeezer1954]

Nice perspective.

[@raywatson6522]

In 2022 hd is a 15k bike with a 30k badge on it, then go spend another 15k to make it go, stop and handle

[@TobyNorthEN]

Am I first?!?!?!?! I was thinking the SAME THING about "pursuit." After all, the first listing of the Oxford dictionary of "pursuit" is - the action of following or pursuing someone or something. The example given - "the cat crouched in the grass in pursuit of a bird" I agree this sends a mixed-signal...

[@davidknows3320]

Truly, it is kind of a crappy name. LOL How about Challenger Tour.

[@kidmoto22]

I don’t mind the Challenger name but when you put them together back to back it seems very deliberate and now less effective.

[@51pawnba25]

The Challenger is new tech ,the Road Glide is old tech. I have been riding Road Glides since 2002 and have over 150,000 miles on them. Harley Davidson Touring bikes can't even get the ride anywhere as good as the Indian Touring bikes. Harley touring bikes are old tech with some minor changes. Challenger is by far a better ride and power !

[@sesquashtwo]

I was in (in the market) for a 2022 Road Glide last month...but have changed the plan now for having the first Indian ride (the 2022 Pursuit Limited Premium to show up in my barn... Totally new direction and very much looking forward to it. I have been a V-Twin rider for many years...and just love the feel, or to put it another way, the tactile, as well as the visually personal appeal it gives me. Never owned a full-on liquid cooled V-Twin, only the Harley'esqe Twin Cool (heads being liquid cooled). I love the single sump...LOVE the gear driven Primary....LOVE the $$$'s now going to be saved to not maintain the Harley '3 hole' liquid $$$ drain.... Harley is a good bike...not taking anything away...but clearly to myself, 2022 is the pivot point...the day that Harley is truly, a 1948 ride...with yearly lip stick, and the new KING in town...the 'BOSS'...the 'one ring' to rule them all, ...is now the **Indian Pursuit Limited Premium Edition**. It's its time to shine in the sun....and I will be riding it, enjoying those warming 'Indian' rays... :)

[@roddewey5347]

A straight copy if you take away the technology and performance things? That makes zero sense. An "exact copy" except for the inverted fork, monoshock rear suspension, ride modes, full liquid cooling, full LED lighting, twice the rear suspension travel of a Road Glide...the list goes on. If anything, you should have made a video about how Harley Davidson is asleep at the wheel. They never put the liquid cooled V-Rod motor in a touring platform and if they were on top of their game today they would have a full blown touring bike in 2022 based around the Revolution Max engine. Had they done so, I would have ordered a new 2022 Harley instead of the 2022 Indian Pursuit.

[@kidmoto22]

You pulled the trigger too fast as that bike you speak of will be to market as a mid-season bike this year or full blown next season. That said if the Challenger and Pursuit are still so much better why is it that they are not out selling the Road Glide?

[@roddewey5347]

@@kidmoto22 Delivery in April!

[@kidmoto22]

@@roddewey5347 I’m super curious what you’ll think of it.

[@milsonbn9250]

Why compare the bikes at all? We all know the fairings are similar but that’s where it ends, and we all know that from an engineering standpoint HD is resting it on its laurels and really hasn’t designed anything new in this space in forever. Indian isn’t marketing to HD hold outs, it’s marketing to new riders who want take advantage of new engineering and power. At that price point I don’t want to spend another dime on my bike, I just want to ride it. There’s a guy in my club that purchased a 2020 street glide at 28K and the first thing he did was Stage 1, 2 and 3 and a power commander at about another 5K (which of course voided his warrantee) and still lags performance wise against my Challenger and ‘15 Chieftain. This rivalry is very old and will continue for years to come. Ride what you like, and just get out there ride.

[@jefferyturner4675]

👍🏽💯

[@ThePNWRiderWA]

All Indian bikes seem to be copies. I wish they were more like the older victory models. Bikes like the vision were strange but cool too. They pushed thinking outside the box.

[@kerrymcclure7503]

You are correct they pushed the thinking outside the box and where are they now?

[@kidmoto22]

I think they kept Indian for name recognition as a larger selling point. They could take some styling clues from them for sure.

[@craiglibby1224]

They didn’t miss the mark.

[@kidmoto22]

Ok

[@amphibdriver1]

There are only so many ways that a motorcycle company can make a cruiser look that will sell well in the US. Honda, Kawasaki, Yamaha, Suzuki, and Victory all tried this and only Victory was able to get even a small piece of the bike market that Harley has locked down. After 17 years Victory only gained a small portion of Harley's bike market. After just three years Indian had sold more bikes than Victory did in 17 years. I own a 2014, Victory XCT and it handles better, takes corners better and revs out faster than my 2019 Harley Road Glide Ultra. For the majority of Harley riders the Victory bike has too many angled lines. Because the push-rod Indians have much smoother visual lines than the Victory it gained much more of Harley's market share vs Victory. When Indian offered a different look of their fairing and front fender vs the older style fairing and fender their big twin sales really increased and causes more Harley riders to want to buy a big twin Indian.

[@kidmoto22]

I also think that Polaris kept the Indian name for the legacy that it had. Name recognition has been a huge selling point for some buyers that want American that is not HD. Either way the competition will be good long term for the consumers as we will see better products from both companies! Thanks for your insight.

[@withPercy]

Hey!! Where can I get one of those cool Five Dirty Bikers hats that you're wearing???

[@kidmoto22]

Thanks for asking! www.five dirty bikers.com/merch

[@jefferyturner4675]

Sooooo, somehow buying a $35,000+ bike then adding another $10,000-$15,000 in customization to keep up with its nearest competitor is a win for HD?? Anyway you cut it, the Indian Pursuit is a world-class motorcycle that even puts HD CVO's to shame.

[@sesquashtwo]

The 'win' is actually a Harley financial win...for them...and you poorer out the door...so I guess, one can think of the way HD, needs to be added onto, to match or not even match the 2022 Indian Pursuit (Premium Package) is a financial win for HD!!!!

[@dennismims2999]

I am so tired of hearing about how the Challenger is a copy of the Road Glide. ANYBODY that has any knowledge of frame mount fairings knows that Harley is far behind the other manufacturers. Craig Vetter was one of the pioneers of frame mount fairings and full body work. Some of his ideas were way ahead of his time and are still coming to light today, through some of his former associates. Harley guys, give it a rest and look up Craig Vetter.

[@kidmoto22]

I was speaking of and gave examples of full faring bikes that do not have the same design lines as the Road Glide. The Kawasaki Vaquero was a perfect example that I named that is NOT a Road Glide copy. I was speaking of design not a specific frame mount or non-frame mount.

[@susancates9544]

Even tho you credit Indian for better technology, you're critical of its styling, as if to say they're just copying. All motorcycles have two wheels (except trikes & quads) so bikes are bikes. Just like folks are followers of Ford vs Chevy vs Dodge, so some like Indian for certain reasons and some like HD for other reasons., but then again some like dirt bikes but lots of riders don't like dirt bikes one iota. Well I guess you have to put something out there to keep your vids rolling along.

[@LuisSanchez-lu4cu]

Make no mistake, I would buy an Indian if I could. When Indian doesn't have bikes to sell people will settle for something else. This preorder is a good idea to a point but if they are only building to order than let people choose the color and seat and so on. I asked about it and was told that isn't possible. That is crap. If you only do pre order. You are losing sales Indian. There has to be a happy medium. If in fact you just can't supply your market then what a shame. I won't pre order a standard offering. That is showroom fodder.

[@MrBassman6]

I just bought the pursuit 22.... I see more harleys on the side of the road being wrenched on.. I had Vaquero .. oil and tire change... traded it in for the Indian 😆😆😆🤣

[@sesquashtwo]

Jealous! Enjoy, and ride many years in safety and health! I'll be joining you soon... :) Pursuit Limited Premium (in Metallic Blue).

[@MrBassman6]

@@sesquashtwo thanks... buddy in georgia just ordered the blue one 👍

[@sesquashtwo]

@@MrBassman6 He better have damn well not bought the LAST Metallic Blue one in the Warehouse!!!! LOL! "Man, I'd be PISSED!"(smile).

[@MrBassman6]

@@sesquashtwo hahaha 👍

[@brucemajor8812]

Except for names already grandfathered in, Indian Motorcycle can no longer use anything that infringes on American Indians. Bill passed in 80's or early 90's. so to avoid law suits they must choose other names. I would have gone with Thunderbird, but that is an Indian name made up. mot sure if they can use it...

[@kidmoto22]

That’s great information to know. I had no idea. Learn something new about that whole process of Indian transitioning to the company they are now.

[@lee.v8271]

You have known idea of what your talking about wtf 2022 INDIAN PURSUIT DARKHORSE PREMIUM in Red and Black Martelic is definitely the best motorcycle on the market right now

[@kidmoto22]

And yet they will not come close to the sales of the HD Ultras sold this season. Better yet try to get one before middle of the summer. A couple of the people have commented on production issues….🤷🏻‍♂️

[@whitebeltchamp1]

How can you say it's a copy when it's a better (engine, brakes, technology) product? Yes the front end looks similar. But that's where it ends. If you enjoy spending extra money on hd for better performance, so be it. I don't know if you're ignorant or refuse to acknowledge that you could buy performance parts (stage one, stage two stage three and etc.) for a Challenger/Pursuit too. You really don't need to though. You always comment about dealer support. Where I'm from that's not even a discussion. I live in the Northeast and I have six Indian dealerships in a two hour radius One that's is 10 minutes away from my home. These Indian bashing videos are great.lol You come off like a true Harley Davidson fan. Keep up the good content!

[@kidmoto22]

Question….did you watch my video or make a comment purely based on the thumbnail?

[@whitebeltchamp1]

@@kidmoto22 with this comment I went back and watched it a second time. I thought maybe I missed something, I didn't You criticize the name "Pursuit". You said it was interesting but in other words it's a stupid names. I know those are not your words but I can read between the lines. I don't care for the names either. By watching your videos it seems like anything Indian does you really won't like. Indian has a better engine better brakes and a better suspension but you still say they missed the mark. At the end you said make a comment agree or disagree, let you know. And I'm letting you know I totally disagree with your opinion. I think the Pursuit and Challenger is the superior product. Just like I feel that the sportster S is better than the Scouts. I base my opinions on technology and performance. But I am being honest when I say I do enjoy your videos. Even if I don't agree with you.

[@kidmoto22]

@@whitebeltchamp1 I absolutely appreciate the comment. I asked only because some comments are based completely on thumbnails. I always invite respectful commentary and as I say in nearly every video that I’m a HD fanboy been on them since the 80’s as a passenger and as an adult as a rider so the HD tilt should be expected. Thank you for watching.

[@HDR20]

That is all Indian has been doing, Copying Harley.Your comparison you forgot the Yamaha Eluder and Venture

[@kidmoto22]

Two good ones there also!

[@05RangerXLT]

I think you hit the nail right on the head; the pursuit is really nothing special and ultimately a copy of a road glide a few years late to the party. These days, I really don't see anything from Indian that I like. The only model of theirs that really had any wow factor was the chief darkhorse, but customization is nowhere near as easy as a Harley, and nothing I own is stock.

[@kidmoto22]

I think the FTR was pretty great for an American company. As I understand that bike has had a lot of fuel mapping problems that Indian has refused to address. Could be why we’re not hearing anything about that bike anymore.

[@05RangerXLT]

The ftr is an interesting bike, but it never really appealed to me. It kind of reminds me of a yamaha fz, which can be had cheaper, sounds better, and from the sound of it is more reliable

[@DJGENOTYPE]

How is it ultimately a copy? Superior 108 power plus engine, superior suspension, technology out the ting yang, water cooled, push button windshield, auto adjusting electric suspension. Bikes aren’t even close.

[@TwoWheelGarage]

I had a 19 Street Glide Special. That M8 is absolutely trash. Under powered and nothing but problems. I paid over $30k and it sat in the shop more than than on the road with sumping issues, recalls, countless oil pump revisions, overheating etc etc. never again. Harley’s 1250 looks promising and should replace the outdated trash M8 but they won’t because HD is busy trying to appease the older dying generation of bikers who are quickly becoming to old to ride. Harley is sitting on their hands while all other brands are innovating. If you take a 2014 road glide side by side with 2022 it would be very difficult to see any significant changes pretty sad honestly. Coming from over 15 years of riding Harley’s I can clearly say the Indian Challenger/Pursuit is without question a better bike in every category. Even if you dump $10k to built up a Road Glide with the 131 engine the Challenger still out performs it with just exhaust and a mild tune. That’s pretty sad. You have to take your HD goggles off to see clearly. Honestly I’d take any other manufacturers touring model over HD’s offering. The new Goldwing is a work of art with amazing technologies and performance that make the new Road Glide look like it should have antique plates on it.

[@kidmoto22]

I think that it’s so interesting when people have stories like that. I’ve got a 2017 RKS with 22k. It had 232 miles on it when I bought it so I’ve basically broken it in and put all the miles on it. It’s been in 18 states and taken me all over the country. I’ve had zero motor issues and have only experienced a little blow by from the air cleaner. My bike is the first year of the M8 and it’s been rock solid. The other three guys I ride with and the five people I’m in the FDB podcast with all have M8 motors with zero issues. I have to think that your experience is the exception rather than the rule. I know not the same but I just sold a Ford explorer that had two transmissions before it reached 80k so does that mean that all explorers are trash? I do agree with you the new RevMax motor has some great potential and your gonna see that in a bagger sooner than later. Thanks for the comment and I hope your still on two wheels.

[@TwoWheelGarage]

@@kidmoto22 the forums are filled with folks with issues. I understand not all will have problems and most don’t but an unacceptable percentage of folks are having serous issues which is a gamble that shouldn’t be made on a $30k bike. And that’s just the subject of reliability. However if HD built a beefed up version of the revmax, threw in everything that is offered on other touring bikes, and gave the bike a sleeker facelift, then HD would without a doubt have a killer bike and I’d be first in line to buy one. Especially with HD’s fit and finish which is probably the only thing HD excels on currently. Harley has proven that they have the tools and capabilities to build an incredible touring bike that would destroy the competition. Look at the tech and performance on the pan america and the livewire. They could do it but choose not to in fear of upsetting their dying fan base.

[@kidmoto22]

@@TwoWheelGarage The real problem that will face all of motorcycling sooner than later is not even the emission standards or electric bike….it that the generation that is dying off is one of the largest consumers of goods and services of all types. Motorcycles are not appealing to the Millennial generation as a whole and they have now become the largest generation. If motorcycling in general doesn’t find a way to reach them it will be doomed. HD and Indian are in a price market that doesn’t provide much room for that type of consumer and the sales will see a huge drop in the next five years. Those of us that do ride and love it all have to become ambassadors for what we love of it will rapidly decline because of lack of sales.

[@TwoWheelGarage]

@@kidmoto22 you do bring up a valid point there. This is why it’s even more important than ever to offer the greatest amount of tech in a motorcycle which is what millennials want. Offering apple CarPlay and android auto was a step in the right direction but not enough. I’m in my mid 30’s along with a lot of friends who ride and also ventured away from Harley for these reasons. So as a millennial, I hope Harley is listening.

[@trekbsg]

I'm right there with you, Indian and other metric Harley clones want a piece of those sales because Harley dominates the sales in a major way. I would say Harley clone bikes are for people that have Freudian inferiority Harley complexes that like the style of Harleys but absolutely refuse to buy a Harley.

[@kidmoto22]

I love the fact that there’s another American offering just wish they would bring something different to the table. The FTR is a great example of them doing something different.

[@trekbsg]

@@kidmoto22 Couldn't agree more, I'm a Harley guy but I'm rooting for Indian to be successful, competition is great for the consumer.

[@davidknows3320]

What about those of us that have and like both Indian and Harley? What's wrong with us?

[@kidmoto22]

Nothing at all!

[@trekbsg]

@@davidknows3320 I think that's called being "bi"🤣, why do you feel there's something "wrong" with you? My statement wasn't intended to insult or degrade any demographic, it was an opinion based on life experiences & sales figures, I apologize if you or anyone else was offended by my statement, if anyone likes/loves metrics, then more power to you, enjoy & ride.

[@fader2701]

Great clickbait for the HD die-hards. The pursuit has a completely different style engine,. Not all vehicles with 2 wheels and a fairing mounted the frame,, ARE copies of a harley. Congrats on thr clickbait title.

[@csolivais1979]

They look almost identical. That's what he is talking about. That's why he said the Vaccaro wasn't a copy becuse it doesn't look the same.

[@kidmoto22]

Correct…thank you!

[@thelost_woods]

Polaris really f**ked up by abandoning Victory. Victory was truly innovative and creative in their designs, and never tried to be anything but their weird funky selves. On a side note Indian has no business charging the prices they do. I get why they do to portray a fake premium status but ride your bike to a Indian demo day and check em out, you'll be so happy to jump back on the Harley when you leave. At least I always am.

[@kidmoto22]

I think that it was a name recognition thing. I agree however they could use styling clues from victory and be better off.

[@thelost_woods]

@@kidmoto22 agreed, it was definitely for the name grab. Odd though because within the 7 or so years they've been operating with the Indian name they already killed all their vintage styled bikes. Only vintage vibes left are the Springfield standard and the Scout. I think they're in trouble. if they can't sell the old school bikes they are known for and can't sell the Harley clones, where do they go from there?

[@kidmoto22]

@Steve Wood It will be trouble for sure.

[@carolinarider5237]

I still don't think it like looks like a Road Glide. Never did. I like the name Pursuit. All I ever owed were Harley's, I have a 2015 Road King now and planning on trading it in on a 2018 Road Glide Ultra. 🤷

[@kidmoto22]

To me it’s all just a little too close. Think Victory vision! No one would think that they copied HD on that design. That could have been something different to offer.

[@carolinarider5237]

@@kidmoto22 yes you made that very clear in the video.

[@snakebite6511]

Polaris Indian has been copying Indian for a while now. 2019 they redesigned the Chieftain to look like a Street Glide, 2020 the designed the Challenger to look like a Road Glide & 2022 the come out with a Pursuit to look like a Road Glide Ultra. I am a former Indian owner, sold my Indian last year after dealing with the local dealership. Poor support, poor network, poor after market & poor dealer service

[@kidmoto22]

I’ve heard this story before and is similar to a friend of mine here. That said I’ve heard people getting the same treatment form HD. Very interesting how this issue can be so subjective and that dealers don’t understand the effect that good customer service can have.

[@sesquashtwo]

Snake Bite...sparse Indian Dealership Network is my only MAJOR concern...right now...if you're out on Tour...miles away from home, or an Indian Dealer (at present) but...I'm gambling that this one model...the 2022 Indian Pursuit (with or without the Premium content) will be such a hit with anybody riding ANY version and manufacturer of a large bore V-Twin...that current dealers will be running to Indian to sign on as a dealer. My own metric dealer is in fact. looking carefully at the comments and uptake (very positive comments on the ride, and those having already been riding theirs...) and is seriously thinking of going after his slice of the American V-Twin Genre. That being Indian, and the fact that his nearest Indian dealer would be 70 miles away from his location....so competition for sales and service would not be a business decision issue....and I'm hoping he will become MY Indian Dealer...and soon!

[@snakebite6511]

@@sesquashtwo What you also need to remember is its not just the lack of dealer network, it also the service side. No Indian dealer can survive selling just Indian motorcycles, they also need to sell the full line of Polaris products along with other brands to stay afloat. Here is the problem i ran into with Polaris Indian Motorcycles. Because they need to sell the full Polaris line along with other brands, there is generally 1 certified Indian mechanic along with 1 apprentice, the other mechanics cannot work on Indian so if you need to get anything done even upgrades you are in a long line. Ive experienced 5 weeks during peak riding season, they was it for me, i sold both my Indian's and went to Harley. I have had no issues, if i want to get my bike in for anything its 2-3 days max. I just called my local Harley deal as i want a new cam in my 2021 Street Glide, along with some other Screamin eagle upgrades and its literally 3 days to get it in. For kicks i called Indian and they wanted me to drop the bike off and leave it with them while they order the Cam, Harley stocked the cam and multiple different ones. I love the Indian motorcycle but i HATE the Indian dealer service. be warned, their after sale service at Polaris Indian is poor at best. I will never own an Indian again

[@sesquashtwo]

@@snakebite6511 Yikes...that doesn't paint a Happy Camper picture in my mind. This would be the first Polaris/Indian I'd be purchasing. So...don't have any personal slant on this...but, the local dealer that is thinking of taking on Indian, is also a metric Yamaha and Suzuki Dealer. He would like to get a piece of the American V-Twin action, and feels he is in a good strategic place...with the nearest Harley Dealer 60 miles away, and the nearest Indian Dealer, 70 miles away from their location. I'm just waiting on the word from him, if he will be granted a dealership contract...vs...buying my Pursuit from the dealer 110 miles away from my home... Stuff like that...but I do appreciate your input...for sure! Will keep a pulse on this side of owning one...being that my local Harley Dealer is only 10 miles from my home...and that was certainly a plus in that regard...and they have 5 mechanics, and 3 last year App's. I understand what you are saying...for sure.

[@sesquashtwo]

@@snakebite6511 Snake Bite...I now see your point...and it is a good one...so read on as to what I posted just now to another poster I have been replying to: Hi, Dysfunctional Vet. You seem pretty functional to me! :) Another poster I had been KZbin 'conversation' with, brought up a very GOOD and STRONG (to myself) point-of ownership, (and resounding for a few days with me, before I am typing to you...) regarding that he owned a Challenger, coming off of a Harley model, and his main point to regrettably sell/trade his Indian Challenger (which is basically our Pursuit's with Tour Options), was his very less-than-satisfied after sale interaction with his Dealer and the current Indian Sales/Service Network. He did not have a personality issue with his selling dealer...OR their shop...but the fact, that when trying to book his Challenger into the Indian Dealer's shop, it was always a projected, 2/3 week booking, as the two certified V-Twin Indian Shop Techs, were basically overwhelmed with work. This went on for over a year...and he finally made the decision that he (while loving the Challenger!) went back to a Harley product of his choosing, as he had always had a 1-3 day (at the most (and the same for my local Harley or Yamaha dealer...) service book in with the Back End. That being stated, and myself 'chewing the cud' on that for a few days, after reading that, had me over the last two days, 'test' the service waters with three Indian dealers over a span of 200 miles away from my home driveway, so to eliminate perhaps just ONE dealer (if at all) having trouble bringing in a customer's ride for service/warranty, or emergency failure tech booking. Well, Vet...I had an eye opener. He (the other KZbin 'gone back to a Harley' poster was absolutely right on the mark. REGRETIBBLY SO! He was most right, (with not merely taking his posting 'word' but testing the Indian Service waters myself. In all cases, over the four (4) dealers Indian Dealers called, they all could not 'touch' my bike but for a book in of three to SIX WEEKS (!!!!) for one that was huge and in a metropolitan city. He also had over 28 pre-orders for all his Indian motorcycle customers...that were MONTHS to be delivered from two days ago. My own Pursuit was ordered two weeks ago, and now has been pushed back to mid August 2022, or (as the Dealer said, was a moving target for later...and he apologized like crazy over that(!). So, in discussing it with my wife...and the fact that we simply love our current ride, (and the fact) and that we can book in to our local Harley Dealer almost tomorrow, as he has 5 certified V-Twin techs to handle his business as well as a massive source to next, or same day parts and acc's....that I canceled yesterday my Pre Order, and did indeed get all my money back from the dealer. I don't want to have to face a multi-week book in for service or that (at this time) the very much lacking Dealer Network across the U.S. and Canada, (which over the year(s) could change for the better, but for us...we want service booked in the week I wish...and a Dealer Network that will have us have a certified Harley Dealership within miles, or minutes/hours from where we are out on tour, if it is a breakdown away from home, or a specific parts failure. I wish you many happy miles upon your Pursuit, but for us...to not even know if we would receive ours this August, closer to September, or LATER(!!!!) and the long Service Booking (my due diligence) we decided to pass and be happy with our current ride (which we in fact, very much are) I merely felt like a change (Bucket List buy) but will remain with our current ride until I see things change on anything to do with owning and servicing any Indian motorcycle, at current situation. Happy ride...any ride! Getting a 2022 model at the end of the (around the Great Lakes) basic riding season...just did not sit well with us at all, regardless of how fine we think the actual bike to be. Again, we're that 'fine' with our present ride, so no pressure to truly divest of it.

[@brucemajor8812]

For real, is there a water cooled eng., on Harley, Oh my bad perhaps inverteded front forks. Maybe Harley copied Indian with new sportster s. Harleys copying Indian with the water cooled eng. Within 8 years all engines will be water cooled. Does that mean harley will be copying Indian. Maybe the Japanese by using water cooled. Come on don't follow what the ignorant say. You don't think Indian offers floor boards, seats handlebars, grips and othe accessories. Maybe not as much but they do have some. and there always other after market companies that make accessories. I have owned 3 motorcycles. I'd rather ride and have fun than spend time cleaning and and repairing . Just a thought.

[@kidmoto22]

There’s a great article in Cycle World that you can find on the internet that talked about the motorcycles most likely to be repaired and HD was one of the most dependable of all the major brands. HD has had liquid cooled motors in the touring line for a bit with the Ultras. I completely agree air cooled motors are going away quickly and it’s time that HD gets onboard.

[@vmonk1474]

I would definitely take the Indian Pursuit over the weak underpowered RoadGlide. I lose more and more respect for H-D when they cry like 2-year-olds every time Indian introduces a bike. Is that all H-D is going to do to counter Indian? Cry "they copied us". Look at the Power Plus engine. Road Glide copy my ass. Indian kicked ass at the KOTB races in Daytona. H-D can either try to counter, or they can cry and make excuses.

[@kidmoto22]

I’d say hold on…the Rev Max is coming to a bagger near you. As soon as HD fully embraces liquid cooled motors it’s all over

[@vmonk1474]

@@kidmoto22 Nice engine. They introduced it in that bike they copied from BMW, Triumph, and KTM.

[@kidmoto22]

@@vmonk1474 The Rev Max is a closer copy to the Vrod motor that HD produced years ago than to the current ADV bikes

[@robbyclark6915]

The Indian styles their bikes to look like a Harley Davidson because they pretty much have to don’t they? I think victory proved that “innovative” design features don’t sell cruisers in America. Everybody wants that Harley look and style. That’s why Harley sells a billion motorcycles while Indian does not. Indian absolutely has to make their bikes faster, more tech, more features and then make it “look” like a Harley Davidson, because it’s about the only way they can sell their bikes. Look at how many HDs get sold every year compared to Indian. If you can even find out how many bikes Indian sells in a year? I personally think Indians biggest problem is dealer network or lack there of. We have one tiny, little, pathetic dealership in the Tulsa Oklahoma metro area. An area of more than a million people. They might have 3 bikes in stock on a good day? They also sell BMW, Honda, and the Polaris lineup. The staff is……not helpful, to be nice about it. I would absolutely be riding an Indian motorcycle right now had the unmotivated staff at their dealership gotten off their phones to help a brand new rider who knew nothing except he wanted an American made cruiser and Indian was right down the street, plus I’m Native American (like it matters, lol) but they didn’t. That was summer of 2020. I’m now on my second Harley Davidson. Just bought the last remaining ‘21 model FXLRS on the lot and couldn’t be happier with it. I’m sure Indian makes a fine motorcycle, but after the experience I had with their sorry excuse for a dealership, I’ll never know. Because I’ll never own an Indian motorcycle when I can own a Harley Davidson. They left a very bad taste in my mouth!

[@kidmoto22]

Wow…I appreciate that comment and it’s a take I’d not heard yet so thank you. I also have a friend that would have purchased an Indian had it not been for the poorly trained and unfriendly staff at the dealer that carried the bikes. Thank you again for your comments and I’d not thought deeply enough about the look that sells vs just a straight copy.

[@nickmcgee6438]

blah, blah, blah... Give it a rest. The Challenger is a copy of the Road Glide. Total BS! It's a better machine in every way!

[@kidmoto22]

Thanks for watching.

[@darrenschneider9722]

indian copies Harley with a water cooled engine.

[@kidmoto22]

HD has had water cooled motors for quite some time. In fact the Ultras have had water cooling radiators in the lowers back 8 years or more. That before the current Indian baggers.

[@darrenschneider9722]

Harley had head cooled in 2014, indian is head and piston sleeve cooling.