IndieCade 2013 - Empuzzlement

"Empuzzlement"
Featuring: Jonathan Blow, Marc ten Bosch, and Droqen
Puzzle game designers talking about puzzles: What makes a good puzzle? Why do people want to solve them (and make them), what are they, and where are we hoping puzzles will eventually go - even if we have to take them there ourselves?
Braid developer Jonathan Blow heads this discussion about the mechanics and motivations behind the craft of Puzzle games.
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[@convolution223]

About the rewards, I think he means artificial rewards, like trophies/stars, things that just measure completion but don't actually give you anything beyond a representation of completing it. Like giving a kid candy. It's sweet but not filling or nutritious.

[@mvandevander]

The IF game that Jonathan mentions is called The Gostak, by Carl Muckenhoupt. It can be found here: ifdb.tads.org/viewgame?id=w5s3sv43s3p98v45 But you will of course need a Z-Machine interpreter. Which there are many of, but the one that I use is Frotz, which you can find here: frotz.sourceforge.net/

[@aaronoman6460]

And the IF game mentioned by Droqen, Suveh Nux: ifdb.tads.org/viewgame?id=xkai23ry99qdxce3

[@minch333]

What is a Z-machine interpreter?

[@hanniffydinn6019]

+Aaron Oman what's the game droqen mentions at 15:00??? Blamalatta???? Wtf???

[@mvandevander]

+Hanniffy Dinn The game he is talking about is called "La Mulana"

[@Tribune12345]

What are the puzzles in Braid that Blow is talking about that you don't easily see? At like 17:20 Probably the epilogue puzzles now that I think about it.

[@dingolover6969]

I guess you're right. Very strange that Blow doesn't see the extra text as a reward!

[@phosphornaut6811]

1:30 Where can I find this game? Orc Tower by Marc ten Bosch? Checked out his website and see no mention of it. Seems like it doesn't exist. Edit: nvm, I misheard Jon Blow saying 'Un'-released'. Though he said it's on release...

[@RuthwikRao]

The kid with long hair looks like the kid from Dazed and Confused. :D

[@droqen4266]

hey man you're talking about me

[@sethtaylor7519]

Or Joseph Gordon-Levitt in 3rd Rock From the Sun.

[@djbanizza]

wow and miegakure is still not out :( i'd get it immediately if it was ...

[@hanniffydinn6019]

Someone has made a free unity clone. So no idea why he's taking so long !

[@djbanizza]

+Hanniffy Dinn Just tried it , it's called Tetraspace , it's more like a demo , but it's enough to give you an idea - now I'm not sure 4D is a very good idea - it feels a lot like brute force exploration of all possible paths I really cannot put it in my head.

[@hanniffydinn6019]

djbanizza Well there is a reason why 4D games aren't common. Everyone higher dimensional game I've EVER played is NO FUN and tedious as hell to play. There is zero enjoyment. If you didn't like Tetraspace you won't like this as tetraspace is a exact copy of the 4D mechanic. Rather than have 4D it would be more fun if a room had parallel versions of the room that you could phase in and out. Say a square room as 4 other parallel version of the room you can access. having a realistic 4D slice, is just a pain. Essentually it just means each room has several parallel versions of it. As that is essentially the mechanic.

[@nerdError0XF]

Well..........

[@CunnininnuC]

speaking of spoilers: it's really hard to talk in depth with anybody about Braid when they haven't a.) done the postgame puzzles and b.) gotten the stars and catch the "princess"

[@alekseivanhee878]

Jonathan: "I made a Mario clone, about Rewind." Fun stuff that he doesn't mind admitting it! Even though, Braid is So much more!!

[@hanniffydinn6019]

What puzzle game is droqen talking about ?? Blalatta????? Wtf ???

[@dafffodil]

+Hanniffy Dinn La Mulana?

[@birdsqautchman1116]

a lot of ideas they talk about contradict rules on game design. if anything game design shouldn't come from analytical thought process, it should come something that the dev thinks is interesting

[@dafffodil]

+Samuel Day I don't think there should be "Rules" for game design, an inherently creative and exploratory medium. Enforcing concrete rules closes minds and stagnates creativity.

[@gd7681]

And what if the analytical process is what the dev finds interesting?