Infinity Battle Report - Qapu Khalqi vs Onyx Contact Force (Supremacy)

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Armies: Qapu Khalqi vs Onyx Contact Force
Scenario: Supremacy (ITS Season 15)

[@R0bertShepherd]

Today we're playing my personally lowest-ranked Infinity Faction, Qapu Khalqi vs my friend Owen's Onyx Contact Force. This was a deeply enjoyable game with high highs and low lows - including my Ghulam lieutenant somehow managing to kill not one but two TAGs during the final turn of the game. Recording, however, was a bit of a stretch. It's not a surprise someone asked me to do this one given how low I ranked QK in our 2024 tier list, but I ranked QK that low because I find them hugely unengaging. That's ultimately a personal assessment, but it makes actually talking about them in anything like a positive and interesting way much more difficult than a faction with some actual tooth in their roster. Still, it's only fair that I have a go with them given they occupy literal last place in my own personal assessment of the game, so watch and see how that played out.

[@emiliorodriguez3796]

I really don't see QK that weak. A faction that can field 2 haris and a core can compete in mid-tier. Caledonia or Merovingia are far weaker, in my humble opinion.

[@mattbissell7409]

Would you be willing to do a Tunguska Battlereport/review. They have had some changes but I still think they are lagging behind the rest of Nomads

[@R0bertShepherd]

@@mattbissell7409 I'd really like to actually - I've got a number of requests from channel members & supporters I do need to get to first but I think Tunguska are really worth going back to in 2024. They have some notable restraints built in still but I think there's a much more solid core there even if it's kind of just vanilla nomads with more expensive warbands in some respects.

[@zephyrrrr4813]

You know a faction is struggling when Rob's turn 1 looks like one of your own 😂😂

[@nnnnnccccc]

ayooo i just started infinity and yo videos keep poppin. they are very poggers keep it up im learning alot about the game while i paint my minis

[@TomK_421]

That possession/QAZ Creature trick was so cool

[@R0bertShepherd]

As soon as Owen landed the possession I was like "oh... oh no" and Owen had to come around and look at the table from my side to see what I was so worried about. It was a hell of a play.

[@user-im6sd4ee2l]

Love your videos!!!! Great job. Please do more on Combined Army & their Sectorial. You do a great job in giving me new ideas & something to think about. Lots of inspiration!!! Thank you

[@krobiekong4326]

Rough game! Thank you for the report and analysis.

[@Heletilla]

I find your assessment of Hafzas *heartbreaking*. While holomask is undoubtedly janky, and by no measure can it ever hope to be actually "strong", it is definetly one of the most fun skills in the game, especially when take in multiples. Aside from the classic Hafza HRL disguised as a warcor that can catch someone being too cocky, hafzas can be employed for loads of fun shenanigans and mind games. Since you valued QK based on "how interesting" it is, I believe dismissing hafzas so handily is what pulls you out of the interesting and fun bits. A Hafza FO in a link team can surprise a tag with a repeater it did not expect. Hafza spitfire is my least favourite, but it can offer some surprise active fire too. All this for really cheap, after all they're just dudes with BS 12 and holomask. No other faction can play around with them like this, not even vanilla haqq, because of limited AVA and them not being linkable. Other than that, how could you disrespect the extra burst on Az'rail! (I agree, it actually doesn't change much, but... BRRRT)

[@R0bertShepherd]

The biggest issue I have with being able to enjoy Hafzas is that I play locally with one of the biggest holomask enjoyers in all of Infinity, our Spiral Corps (and Varuna and Haqq) player Ed. He will always and without fail identify any shenanigans, to the point where getting one over him is an exceptionally rare feat. Especially something like the warcor that's actually a HRL, which I feel is a classic example of how QK 'tricks' play out. You have a 'warcor' on ARO duty; your opponent moves up a gun capable of engaging them. You reveal to be a Hafza! Ok cool, anything that can kill a Warcor hitting on 13s can probably still kill a Hafza hitting on 12s. So you're hoping that your opponent has a second model hugging their active piece so you might land a splash hit, but that relies on your opponents not having good fundamentals even if they haven't already identified what the 'warcor' actually is. The Azra'il extra burst is an absolute joy and really I think I should have tried to include them in this list, but it had been a long time since I'd played Scarface and I wanted to trot him out again.

[@vicioushellsing]

I have tricked Lobo with a Hafza pretending to be Leila. He spent 4 orders getting into position and shooting a pitcher next to her. Then activates his hacker and idles "Whats your ARO" "I don't have one until you declare a hacking program against me" He then tried to explain to me how hackers always have an ARO if inside the repeater net. Then realized what was happening "I should have known". Even the best players in all of Infinity make mistakes and Holomask is a fantastic tool for letting your opponents hang themselves. I am a massive "Holomask enjoyer" to the point where it lets me play 3d chess in my own meta. I set down a warcor and my opponents "know" its a rocket launcher. So i can just let it be an actual warcor and enjoy the benefits of people avoiding a rocket launcher ARO.

[@R0bertShepherd]

@@vicioushellsing that's a cool story about Lobo (and I've managed to pull similar tricks on my local opponents), but I really want to unpick this warcor example on why holomask is at best sometimes food. Even if you manage to train your opponents to think that a warcor is often concealing a heavy rocket launcher, *why* are they afraid of an unlinked BS12 basic guy? (and they have to be unlinked, or the bluff obviously fails) Depending on the attacking element profile, the risk calculus barely changes and if anything they should be more incentivised to put down your 3pt ARO Warcors on the off chance they represent occasionally being able to get a free kill on a 17pt regular model rather than a 3pt irregular one. Every now and again, Holomask offers some interesting and unique potential - in particular I find that during the deployment phase especially (before your first order phase in particular, when many secrets are laid bare to an observant opponent) you can sometimes push your opponent toward shadowboxing a threat that doesn't actually exist or thinking you have a vulnerability when you actually don't. But for me, at least, it's not a big selling point - just a fun toy to use from time to time. But, I'm glad you get a lot of use out of and really dive into the depths of what's possible. It's cool that there's more to the mechanic if you go looking (and really try to get into peoples' heads) :)

[@vicioushellsing]

@@R0bertShepherd Oh I agree that the warcor actually being a HRL hafza is "babys first holomask". But that is the beauty of the skill. It gets much deeper than the text of the rule. And holomask doesn't have to be "unknown" to be effective. Last season I would often have the free Bashi as a second Joan. Your opponent immediately knows one is fake. But now you have a defense against her being isolated turn 1 by every combined army player. In fact, losing holomask in vanilla Pan0 has caused me to put the faction on the backburner. Its the "politicing" in a game of commander. Its not for everyone, but its effect isn't something that can be easily measured because you have no idea how an opponent is going to react.

[@Heletilla]

@@vicioushellsing I once managed to fool a friend on deployment by making them counterdeploy yojimbo and then deploying a second yojimbo as my reserve unit because the first one was actually a lu duan. An absolutely insane and expensive gambit with almost no payoff... But nothing beats saying "I deploy a second Yojimbo"

[@Gormthestorm]

Awesome match. I've been excited to see a Qapu Khalqi battle report. I enjoyed playing Qapu Khalqi because they allowed me to use non-haqqislam profiles and helped me branch out to NA2 armies. The list I've had the most luck with is this one: gZMLcWFwdS1raGFscWkfIDIwMjQwMjI2IGF6cmFpbCByZXBlYXRlciBmaW5hbIEsAgEBAAUAgXsBBwAAgXsBBwAAgXsBBQAAgT0BAQAAgT4BAQACAQALAIFKAQEAAIFKAQIAAIE7AQMAAIE%2BAQEAAIEtAQcAAIEtAQcAAIEtARMAAIEtAQEAAIE%2BAQEAAIEtAQgAAIFNAQEA Druze with X-visor can safely put a repeater wherever you need it and makes the shock marksman rifle usable. Fanous remotes make a great wall of cheap flashpulses and repeaters in case anyone pushes too far up the field. 2x Ghulam hackers in a 4-man pretty much guarantees a spotlight or worse on anything that brushes against the variety of pitchers/repeaters. I find the +3BS from spotlight really helps the Azra'il. Azra'il and Rafiq haris gives a great offensive punch, and the rafiq repeater or azra'il feuerbach makes it an okay defensive haris. A Ghulam doctor by itself for helping pick people up with a nasmat or for classifieds. As my friend pointed out about this list, "Isn't this just a knockoff Nomads list?". While I agree with his point, being a knockoff of Nomads is still not too bad. Vanilla haqqislam would be better, but Qapu Khalqi is fun to experiment with and allows people to dip their toes into mixed faction list construction while staying mostly haqqislam. Thank you for spotlighting a faction that doesn't get much discussion or exposure.

[@R0bertShepherd]

I like it - that hacking setup knows what it wants to do and doubles down on the tools to accomplish it (and as for it being scuffed nomads - I actually disagree a little. Nomads *wish* they had X-Visor BS12 pitchers rather than having to sacrifice hecklers to drop fastpandas down). How do you generally defend with that list? That seems to be the scariest part to me, since you're very vulnerable to your opponent aggressively pursuing your hackers or even just getting some warband or skirmisher models into your DZ. Do you risk the Azrails for ARO duty? (they just about can; it's a bit of a scary prospect but it's also scary for your opponent and I'd assume the doctor really helps make it viable).

[@Gormthestorm]

@@R0bertShepherd Yeah, defense is by far the hardest part and why I'm debating the Ghulam doctor to heal the inevitable wounds or substituting another profile like beasthunter or something to kill the enemy before it makes the wound. It has never felt as strong on turn 2 as I like. The turn 1 is nice. The main defense is "acceptable losses" and "redundancy". Your front line of defense is the wall of Fanous. 8" range hacking zone around each Fanous means 16" bubble and with 3x Fanous you can cover the whole board length if you are lucky. Repeater network means nothing is getting through without a spotlight, or an attempt at discovery if it is a marker. The Fanous bots normally die, but everything in the list has regular orders. If I lose a couple of orders, it doesn't kill the list. If they also spent orders killing the Fanous rather than something more important, that is good too. If a fanous lives, sometimes I find it is better to send them forward with a 6-6 then shoot repeaters. Your second line is normally a druze KHD or the shock marksman on one side, and then the Azra'il feuerbach on the other side. A haris druze KHD with the 2B pitcher will drop a repeater where you want it. If a druze dies in the fireteam, a duo druze KHD will still get that pitcher where it needs to be the majority of the time in 1 or 2 orders. You then either guided whatever killed the first druze, shoot it with the marksman rifle, or let it sit next to the repeater. Not the best, but still not bad. A haris Azra'il feuerbach can kill almost anything if it gets lucky in ARO, and will at least survive most things to guts back into cover if you have normal luck. If the Azra'il feuerbach dies, you still have a duo Azra'il HMG + rafiq. The Azra'il HMG hunts down whatever killed the Azra'il Feuerbach. The rafiq is a specialist you drag up the board, and then can do all sort of things with gun fighting, repeater, sensor, forward observer, push button, etc. Not the best, but still not bad. The four man ghulam gives the hackers sixth sense, so using stealth to avoid all the repeaters becomes a pain. Don't underestimate spotlighting things, giving a +3 BS to an AROing Azra'il makes everything a little scared. Then you have the ghulam all face different directions to try to shoot down anything that combat jumps or parachutes down. If they kill a ghulam, you hope it isn't the LT because you have redundancy for everything else. If they bust all of that, the missile bot and doctor have little hope and the game is probably done. The main way this stays in the game is the counter punch is still effective even if you take losses. If the enemy kills the fanous bots wall. I have enough orders to keep things going. If the enemy kills the Druze. I have the Azra'il punch. If the enemy kills the Azra'ils. I have the pitchers and guided missile punch. I'd like a third punch that isn't risking Ghulams, but I haven't quite found a good solo character that is cheap enough in Qapu to do that. Maybe the beasthunter of Al Hawwa'. If all else fails, the Ghulams with hackers are still specialists and rifle+light shotgun can work some miracles to get on a button and push it before the game is over.

[@R0bertShepherd]

@@Gormthestorm there's a lot to be said for redundancy (and acceptable losses), and the ability to reconstitute pieces if needed. Nicely written :)

[@R0bertShepherd]

I've enjoyed the Hawwa and Beasthunter both in my limited experience but they are juuust expensive enough that they can be challenging to easily pivot a list into. I wouldn't want to drop below two HDs in your list, for example. So it could be a tricky swap in.

[@Gormthestorm]

@@R0bertShepherdThanks for the comments and feedback. I've been thinking on the list, the feedback, and my past games and I came up with a small change. In short, I couldn't remember the last time I actually shot with the Rafiq FTO. It was always a button pusher or repeater. That is why for my next game, I'm going to switch it with the Hafza Forward observer to wildcard into the Azra'il Haris. This frees up 3 extra points and 0.5 SWC while maintaining a specialist in the Haris. The Hafza can holomask as a normal Hafza, Leila, Rouhani, or a cheaper wildcard to cause a bit of confusion (especially if you have a camo token down). I find Hafza plays work better with subtle tricks, and not trying to hide a HRL trick. gZMLcWFwdS1raGFscWkfIDIwMjQwMjI2IGF6cmFpbCByZXBlYXRlciBmaW5hbIEsAgEBAAUAgXsBBwAAgXsBBwAAgXsBBQAAgT0BAQAAgT4BAQACAQAIAIFKAQEAAIFKAQIAAIFGAQMAAIE%2BAQEAAIEtAQcAAIEtAQcAAIEtARMAAIEtAQEA This gives me some flexibility on the last two models in the list, 28 points, 0.5 SWC: Fanous + Ghulam Doctor + 2x Nazmats Ghulam Number 2 with Panzerfaust to finish the 5-man core + Beasthunter Hawwa' Minelayer + Fanous A third Ghulam Hacker + Alguaciles Paramedic/Forward Observer Cheap Rafiq + Korzan (haven't tested Korzans in an actual game yet) Etc. This flexibility let's you patch any hole you want to be filled. Whether it is list holes in general, or mission specific list holes. If you also really like the Burkut, you can swap the Druze shock marskman to a Druze Panzerfaust to free up 2 extra points while maintaining a one-shot ARO threat. You can then slot in the Warcor + Burkut Heavy Flamethrower. Thank you for the discussion and giving me inspiration for another remixed list.