Information Causing Design?

The relationship between information and design where the information needs a mind to exist and therefore the mind must be god.
This clip is from The Atheist Experience, Episode 28.06 for February 18, 2024 with Forrest Valkai, Seth Andrews and Armin Navabi!
See the full episode: • Designing Information,...
Call the show on Sundays 4:30pm-6:00pm CT: 1-512-686-0279 or use your computer to save on long-distance charges: tiny.cc/callthe...
► Don't like commercials? Become a patron for ad-free content & more: / theatheistexperience
► Podcast versions of the show may be found at:
www.spreaker.c...
► Atheist Experience merch can be found at: https:tiny.cc/merchaca
► Become a KZbin member: / @theatheistexperience
► Join our discord:
tiny.cc/acddiscord
Note: We request pronouns as part of the call screening process on our shows, and we display the pronouns our callers provide. If you see a caller with no pronouns indicated, this is because they chose not to provide us with any, and we respect that decision.
-------
WHAT IS THE ATHEIST EXPERIENCE?
The Atheist Experience is a weekly call-in television show in Austin, Texas geared at a non-atheist audience. The Atheist Experience is produced by the Atheist Community of Austin.
The Atheist Community of Austin is a 501(c)(3) educational non-profit organization based in Austin, Texas. The Atheist Community of Austin is dedicated to promoting atheism, critical thinking, secular humanism, and the separation of religion and government.
We define atheism as the lack of belief in gods. This definition also encompasses what most people call agnosticism.
VISIT THE ACA'S OFFICIAL WEB SITES
www.atheist-com... (The Atheist Community of Austin)
NOTES
TheAtheistExperience is the official channel of The Atheist Experience. "The Atheist Experience" is a trademark of the ACA.
The views and opinions expressed by hosts, guests, or callers are their own and not necessarily representative of the Atheist Community of Austin.
Opening Theme:
Shelley Segal "Saved" www.shelleysega...
Limited use license by Shelley Segal
Copyright © 2011 Shelley Segal
Copyright © 2024 Atheist Community of Austin. All rights reserved.

[@imjustthisgirlok]

Fine tuning: "If things were different, they wouldn't be the same"

[@nealjroberts4050]

Noone can even demonstrate fine tuning if the universe is a thing. It all boils down to anthropic reasoning

[@roqsteady5290]

The universe is really complex! Let’s invent something even more complex and say it must be responsible.

[@darthnightstrike1808]

Im a simple great ape. I see Forrest, i click

[@monkeybznzz]

This got! I love this guy! BWAHAHAHA!!!

[@tryme3969]

Do apes understand what sin is?

[@darthnightstrike1808]

@@tryme3969 the only great apes that understand that are humans, because we made it up

[@xenomorphoverlord]

@@tryme3969Ape only understand banana.

[@cutoverpark9596]

@@tryme3969I doubt it,Sin is christian concept not a real world concept…

[@gatorboymike]

"Okay, so there's shit. And shit is a way. You still with me? Right. Shit is the way that shit is, and shit is not a way other than the way that shit is. Shit could have theoretically been a way other than the way that shit is, yet shit is not a way other than the way that shit is; shit is in fact the way that shit is. The only possible explanation for shit being the way that shit is and shit not being some way other than the way that shit is, is if there is a magical Shit-the-Way-Shit-Is-And-Not-a-Way-Other-Than-the-Way-That-Shit-Is-Maker." - fucking genius

[@shaner90]

Very accurate and hilarious demonstration of their stupid arguments

[@thetruefirelord2248]

I love how Christians love "free will" but hate when that will goes against their overlord

[@MrCanis4]

They love free will so much because they than can say that Atheists choose to go to hell. So that their god isn't such a bad dude afther all.

[@joshsheridan9511]

Freewill is just the excuse they have for their god doing nothing

[@MrCanis4]

@@AntiAtheismIsUnstoppable ""Atheist religion" does not exist. I'm just not convinced that a god exists.

[@roqsteady5290]

@@AntiAtheismIsUnstoppableA very long time ago our ancestors agreed, for the most part, not to bonk each other on the head with rocks, but rather to cooperate and be nice to each other (sometimes). The cooperators survived better than the others who were all squabbling so much they couldn’t hunt for their dinner. Today we have codified those rules of cooperation under the term “morality” and even made them the basis of laws. That is really all you need to know about why we consider some things good and sometimes behave decently to other people.

[@thetruefirelord2248]

@@AntiAtheismIsUnstoppable 1. "atheist religion" is an oximoron. a= no, theist= deity, atheist= no deity. 2. if free will is free will then it is impossible to reject as the act of rejection is an expression of free will? but seriously nothing happens in a vaccume, you are influenced by the chemicals in your body and the environment you live in 3. destiny is also made up, the future in always in motion, you could belive you have a great destiny then die in a plane crash tomorrow 4. you just pulled that from your ass, accountability, and responsibility have nothing to do with anything right now 5. evil is subjective 6. sin is made up 7. shame, guilt, and forgiveness are human emotions, they existed before gods were invented, and will exist when new gods are invented, and after humanity has moved pass the want of gods 8. lenin tortured people -> no one want to be tutored -> if you were turtored then you would want someone to stop it -> we should stop turtore got any other misconception you need cleared up?

[@guitarizard]

"Often, the less there is to justify a traditional custom, the harder it is to get rid of it." -Mark Twain, 'The Adventures Of Tom Sawyer

[@MrCanis4]

A jar full of expensive words. Therefore god, who killed babies.

[@crazynachos4230]

Kills*

[@MrCanis4]

@@crazynachos4230 thank, English is not my first language.

[@theoutspokenhumanist]

Adam sounds like a Jordan Peterson fan. Word salad without saying anything new.

[@spoenk7448]

You don't have to be a fan to word salad.

[@Krawnbundungle]

@@spoenk7448no on said that

[@firewfire]

Just because you dont yave the capacity to understand Peterson doesn't mean he speaks word salads 😂😂🤡 Thats like saying Ben Shapiro speaks fast... Like yeah? And? "Velocity" of speech dosnt change speech you simple fcks😂😂

[@Mr_Porter]

It is frustrating when callers recycle arguments that have already been thoroughly addressed, and then deny their intentions when confronted by the hosts who are familiar with the topic. I believe that callers should be honest about their intentions, as the hosts are not likely to abruptly end the call. Rather, they are simply trying to avoid repeating discussions that have already been extensively covered. It's soooo annoying. The hosts are already at the finish line before the caller puts their shoes on.

[@Honkers716]

Most ppl can't take being told they are wrong. Best way is to ask them questions until they figure it out OR they say you are belittling them.

[@landsgevaer]

To be frank, I didn't get to any argument, if any. I couldn't get beyond a start of defining some terms in peculiar ways. The whole thing started about "information" and "patterns", and neither the caller nor the hosts seemed to be able to describe what it meant. So if this regurgitated a familiar argument, then maybe you could enlighten me what that was?

[@Mr_Porter]

​@@landsgevaer​ I'll give you a quick recap that hopefully adds some clarity🤞 2:41 Forrest explains to the caller that his argument seems similar to a recycled argument that they've already debated on the show and then proceeds to explain why it is flawed and uninteresting. The caller states that his argument of nothing of the sort and then continues. At around the 4:04 mark, Forrest highlights that the caller's argument closely resembles what he (Forrest) had mentioned a few minutes prior. The boredom begins shortly after this point (for me). From 4:57 to 25:09, the caller appears to struggle in articulating a clear and concise point, often repeating himself and going in circles...as I expected. Finally, at 25:12, Forrest decides to point out that the caller has done exactly what he had predicted 22 minutes ago, effectively ending the discussion. So, while the majority of the call may have been tedious, it is important to note that the caller's argument, as Forrest mentioned at the beginning, falls into the category of an argument from incredulity. In my opinion, arguments like this are a waste of time.

[@landsgevaer]

@@Mr_Porter Sincere thanks for all your work. *Forrest's interpretation of* the caller's argument was something he already knew. I noticed that too. Maybe look at your own notes above and you will notice that you always refer to Forrest regarding what the argument is, never to the caller. Now Forrest is a great guy, and I don't think he would strawman the caller. But in this case, I actually doubt he and the caller were on the same page. I have hardly a clue what page the caller was on. And to be frank, Forrest here also wasn't very clear on what "information" should be understood to mean. He talked about fairy circles, while the caller talked about laws of physics, so I did not get the impression they aligned. (Moreover, neither aligns well with what I would normally call information, but that is an aside.) I generally prefer to at least try to listen to a caller and see if I can understand the "argument" such that I can also assess whether and why it is a bogus argument (answer tends to be "yes"...). And, like I wrote, at least for me, this call got stuck in the definition of terms. Actually, Armin (and Forrest) also spent a lot of time pointing out the words were ill-defined and used somewhat unconventionally. Such definitions are necessary btw, and I suspect the caller has some thinking to do to promote his idea from a word salad to something with substance. But then I never get to the stage of assessing the argument. And neither did the hosts, I feel, from how they ended the call. If I must roughly summarize the caller from my memory of this call, it goes like: the universe contains information, information requires a brain, therefore the universe requires a brain, and that we call god. I don't necessarily agree with either premisse, and I guess you could name all kinds of fallacies those premises might be based on; I don't remember the caller getting to the point of motivating them much, apart from stating them. But hey, there has never been a caller that was able to give a sound argument so far, and you cannot philosophize a god into existence, so I am willing to trust this leads nowhere either.

[@Firestorm12345678910]

@@AntiAtheismIsUnstoppable I just found something interesting related to your question. It seems that in seahorses and pipefish the males of the species are the one's that give birth. And back directly to your question neither male or female will be needed in the future (except for their DNA) to give birth when artificial insemination and artificial womb (trials are starting soon?) technologies are combined. No risk of death to DNA donors and some convenient taps on your smart phone and Gattaca convenience is now at your fingertips. Ethics, morals, legalities would need to be worked out for sure.

[@romankvapil9184]

All Adam did was just present presupping with a new coat of paint. Did he think we wouldn’t figure that out?

[@SalemK-ty4ti]

The only place god exists is in the minds of it’s believers.

[@theepsteindiaries]

Right there next to love, happiness and Caitlin Jenner ❤

[@exceptionallyaverage3075]

​@@theepsteindiariesIf you're in love with her you should let her know. It might turn out she has a thing for ignorant christian superstitionist bigots.

[@exceptionallyaverage3075]

@@JimCastleberry Do you christian superstitionists have a book of stupid questions to ask atheists? Is it another of your inept attempts to distract from you having no decent evidence for whichever god you've decided to believe in?

[@kyaxar3609]

​@@JimCastleberryI can jump 10 feet high, do you believe me? No? Prove me wrong !

[@kyaxar3609]

@@JimCastleberry Why don't you believe i can 't jump 10 feet, prove me I can' t. Because you want evidence, you see that's how it works!

[@niblick616]

There is no word in the bible that Christians will not redefine when it suits them, including the simple words 'day' and 'inspire'.

[@jexelbur6872]

I’ve seen and heard people try to exaggerate a “day” as “millions of years” in order to connect the Bible to science and prehistory. And some christians say a “day for god is a million years for us”. And there’s loads of problems with that.

[@niblick616]

@@jexelbur6872 Absolutely. It is almost impossible to have a rational conversation with people who alter the meanings of words on a whim.

[@owersmenbwroten9813]

@@jexelbur6872 God doesn't need science or anything else. You seem to think God needs his creation, when it's just the opposite. The creation answers to him. In regards to reality, to the atheist I say “you’re the problem.” You. Because the atheist fails. The atheist simply doesn’t know. They’ve made themselves their own God; their own idol and they are the standard as to what can or can’t happen. They say, “Uh. It’s too hard to believe.” Why? “Uh, it’s just not my experience.” That’s because it’s a miracle. A miracle is a non-repeated occurence. If it repeated, we wouldn’t take it as a miracle. The problem is that the atheist takes for every-day miracles for granted. Example: Birth of a baby. A sperm & egg is placed together and a unique personality with it’s own blood type & fingerprints are created from that egg & sperm. And if you have siblings, you see that they are completely different from you, even though they came from the same parents. It’s a miracle that takes place before our eyes, but since we see it every day, we take it for granted and count it non-important & mundane. Yet, it’s a miracle that nobody can explain. Another miracle is that you can breathe. But if you go into space, you can’t breathe, you float away & die. So what is it about earth as to why you can live and breathe within it’s atmosphere? Where’d your nose & lungs come from? How about the red blood cells that carry the oxygen to every cell in your body? Who designed that? Where did the INTELLIGENCE come from that created/designed all the bodily systems (circulatory, respiratory, reproductive, digestive, endocrine, lymphatic, urinary, skeletal, nervous, muscular, body/skin) of the human body? So don’t tell me that somebody rolled the dice and bodily systems came from nothing and they all found themselves able to work with the other systems of the body to not only have life survive, but thrive and even reproduce. Sorry, but nothing of primitive nature can produce such things (e.g. star dust, moist rocks, mud puddles, hot rocks, moon dirt, warm ponds, gravity, oceans, primordial soup, nothing). IT IS IMPOSSIBLE.

[@MrCanis4]

If words don't fit our beliefs, we simply change the definition of that word.

[@joshsheridan9511]

​@@owersmenbwroten9813irrelevant to op's post. Almost irrelevant as you are.

[@ctwentysevenj6531]

There is no magical designer. Only here through a natural process.

[@holgerlubotzki3469]

@@369spartan Explain your posts here given you have neither consciousness or mind.

[@Beacon80]

​@@369spartanEasy. Consciousness evolved gradually, just like everything else. And math does not require a mind.

[@nealjroberts4050]

​@@369spartan Do you know what the hard problem of consciousness actually is?

[@BlarglemanTheSkeptic2]

​​demonstrate that the "hard" problem is more than us not yet understanding the complex emergent behaviour is a billion neurons. But of course you can't.

[@BlarglemanTheSkeptic2]

​@@nealjroberts4050of course he doesn't. He just loves the woo and thinks that it's a gotcha.

[@afroatheist-isnowafroantit6154]

He is right. It is all in his mind.....thank you, caller....😅

[@nealjroberts4050]

I just want to thank the Christian trolls for repeatedly demonstrating that their preaching is counterproductive. It's just as much appreciated by us nonchristian theists as it is the atheists. Thank you ❤❤❤

[@TheTruthKiwi]

F'n bravo Armin, well explained my dude.

[@owersmenbwroten9813]

Yes Armin, I can define God. God is the INFINITE/ETERNAL/SUPERNATURAL omniscience, omnipotence & omnipresence that is FAR BEYOND our limited FINITE MINDS to know & understand. We can be in heaven for 100 trillion yrs and will still not be able to fully define Almighty God.

[@TheTruthKiwi]

@@owersmenbwroten9813 So how do you understand god then?

[@wyldink1]

@@owersmenbwroten9813 Can your almighty God lie? Because you claimed that this God of yours gave you a prophecy, and it utterly failed to come to pass. You claimed that you can never be wrong, so that means your God lied, does it not?

[@TheRaven_200]

​@@owersmenbwroten9813 Sounds like a load of nonsense.

[@joshsheridan9511]

​@@owersmenbwroten9813neppy - god is above human understanding also neppy - let me explain god to you.

[@sigmaoctantis1892]

"We can superimpose our interpretation onto it." Yes. That sounds like God. The interpretation we superimpose onto things.

[@TigreModerata]

Each host addresses a side of the sillier aspects of the argument, very fun to watch!!

[@o_nazim]

SPACE WIZARD! My new favorite phrase!

[@post1305]

You are gonna really love Doctor Who

[@AlexPBenton]

That Wizard came from the moon

[@joshsheridan9511]

Adam you can't word salad your god into existence

[@joshsheridan9511]

@@JESUS--NEVER--tAPPED lol so you don't know what word salad means.🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@joshsheridan9511]

​@@JESUS--NEVER--tAPPEDrepeating you don't know what word salad is. And I don't use word salad because I'm an honest person so have no need to. Adam isn't

[@geraintwd]

So many theist arguments seem to come down to some variation of "I don't understand how natural processes can operate without agency, therefore God".

[@georgem2334]

What kind of dressing would the caller like with his word salad?

[@brynpookc1127]

Slime mold

[@lmnop1022]

Window dressing.

[@brucebaker810]

In the Beginning was The Word ...Salad. And it was crisp.

[@Beacon80]

Giggles ran away because he can't define what an "observable question" is. 🤣

[@nealjroberts4050]

😂😂😂

[@amtlpaul]

Sounds like another Giggles nonsensism.

[@Beacon80]

@@amtlpaul It's an attempt at special pleading. He needed an excuse why I can't use his fallacious version of the process of elimination to prove unicorns exist.

[@nealjroberts4050]

Information seems to be a label applied externally not an inherent property. We call something information because we find it informative. It's existence is not affected by the label being applied.

[@holgerlubotzki3469]

Hey Neal. The FloBLoJoBoi is claiming zero liability for the de-conversion of Denny, so I reminded of your advice about counter productive preaching.

[@nealjroberts4050]

@@holgerlubotzki3469 Cheers! I'm making my way up the comments so I'll add my affirmation too.

[@holgerlubotzki3469]

I just had a scan and it looks like he has deleted that thread.

[@nealjroberts4050]

​@@holgerlubotzki3469 No worries there's a similar one under a Quecee thread.

[@holgerlubotzki3469]

@@AntiAtheismIsUnstoppable I didn't know this was non sequitur week. I'll have to catch up.

[@smochygrice465]

Good Fri-yay Morning 🌞 AXP Fans and Theists ❤❤❤ Peace Love Empathy From Australia 🇦🇺👊🤠🤘

[@joshsheridan9511]

Good Thursday evening smoochy, have a good day. Love and respect

[@post1305]

Aussie gods are upside down

[@t800fantasm2]

@@post1305 ∀nssᴉǝ ƃops ɐɹǝ ndsᴉpǝ poʍu

[@smochygrice465]

@@post1305 🤣

[@jayrose8638]

We are officially at 61 days of “theists” failing to provide any convincing reason to believe in the existence of any god, gods or other divine or supernatural beings. Day 62 will be here soon.

[@jaflenbond7854]

The TRUTH about GOD and JESUS CHRIST Thousands of years ago, GOD authorized and sent Jesus Christ from heaven to earth to preach and teach the "Kingdom of God" and "Resurrection of the Dead" to imperfect, suffering, and dying human beings. While on earth, JESUS CHRIST didn't raise, glorify, and exalt himself as greater, powerful, glorious higher and superior than GOD and didn't degrade human beings too as worthless useless, lower, lesser, and far inferior than him. ATHEISTS and RELIGIONS against GOD and JESUS CHRIST Atheists, Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, SDAs, Catholics, Baptists, Methodists, Born Again Christians, Buddhists, Muslims, Hindus, and fanatic members of all kinds of Religions in the world who are raising, glorifying, and exalting themselves as greater, powerful, glorious, higher and superior than GOD and Jesus Christ and degrading their co-human beings too including their own families and neighbors as worthless, useless, lower, lesser, and inferior than them are obviously bringing themselves nothing but their own dishonor, disgrace, downfall and ETERNAL DEATHS while all persons on earth who willingly submit to the authority of Jesus Christ and believe his teachings about the "Kingdom of God" and "Resurrection of the Dead" are definitely bringing themselves honor and the loving, kind, and merciful GOD's favor and reward of ETERNAL LIFE and existence on earth without sufferings, pains, griefs, sickness and death. The "RESURRECTION of the DEAD" is the guarantee that the Sovereign GOD will not let his loving, kind, and respectful Worshippers who died recently and thousands of years ago like Abel, Noah, Abraham, Sarah, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, Job, Naomi, Ruth, King David, Jesus Christ's disciples and followers, and many others to remain as worthless dusts forever, instead, in the right and proper time, he will let Jesus Christ RESURRECT them back to life so they can all happily, peacefully, and abundantly live and exist on earth forever as submissive and obedient subjects of the "KINGDOM of GOD" or His Kingdom and fully enjoy his and his Christ's eternal love, kindness, goodness, compassions, generosities, favors, and blessings for eternity under the loving and kind rulership, guidance, and protection of Jesus Christ as his Chosen King and Ruler of the heavens and the earth.

[@holgerlubotzki3469]

@@jaflenbond7854 Why are you so *LAZY,* Jaffles? The least you could do here is put some effort into tidying up the spacing of your copy pasta scripts of *SPAM!!!*

[@holgerlubotzki3469]

@@jaflenbond7854 "He also that is slothful in his work is brother to him that is a great waster" - Proverbs 18:9

[@holgerlubotzki3469]

@@jaflenbond7854 "The sluggard is wiser in his own conceit than seven men that can render a reason" - Proverbs 26:16

[@ThroneofDavid8]

How long are you going to pretend? It's getting really old.

[@davidallen111]

A mind is not required for one set of information to occur rather than another. All that is required is the natural forces interact and result in one possible reality. No choice has been demonstrated, so no intention has been demonstrated, so no mind has been shown to be necessary.

[@nealjroberts4050]

Information is only a label applied externally. There is no inherent property that is information itself.

[@davidallen111]

@@nealjroberts4050 All inherent properties are information. Every inherent property is information. Everything that is understood, or can ever be understood, about reality is information.

[@landsgevaer]

There actually is a whole branch of science devoted to the concept of "information". 0:46 "What do you mean by information" "In order to have information we need to have the specification of certain values" "Sure" ❓ I don't think this conversation was about that concept. 😞 The caller made a number of syllogistic points and as usual I don't think I would be able to accept **any** of the premises.

[@craigyoung8008]

5:30 Spot on Armin. That’s exactly what I said. :)

[@sabin1166]

The caller is just trying to construct his invisible cosmic fantasy.

[@davidallen111]

We have no evidence that the patterns we infer from nature were implied by anything. Humans infer what is not implied all the time. For example: any discussion about politics, religion, or the weather.

[@Jeff-sr6fx]

Rolling two 6 sided dice has 36 total possible outcomes. When you roll the dice, an outcome is selected for. Therefore, there is a mind.

[@hockeylvr42]

“It’s all comes down to interpretation” Well, I agree with him there at least

[@keithlevkoff8579]

I think I can see a very simple example that breaks his claim... I have a regular six sided die... with sides numbered from 1 to 6. I use a "random shaker machine" to throw that die twice... and it lands on the number 2 and then on the number 4. *I* see patterns: both numbers are even numbers; the second number is double the first; the second number is also the square of the first. TO ME it appears as if "certain specific information has been extracted from all of the information contained on that die". - Does that mean that THE MACHINE has a mind? - Does that mean that either the machine or the die has "free will"? - Does it mean that there is some OUTSIDE MIND (like "God") involved in the process? - If we assumed the latter do we have any sort of hint about what that external mind might be? Or are those "patterns" all just artifacts of how MY MIND interprets a random series of events? (I very much suspect that they are in fact ALL just artifacts arising in MY mind.)

[@ministryofarguments3525]

5 dice = Yahtzee

[@amtlpaul]

The troll 1.21 Gigawatts can't make up his mind whether divine revelation has been conclusively demonstrated or it is wholly unrealistic to expect it to be demonstrated at all!

[@nealjroberts4050]

Now they're trying to argue you should just be ignored 😂

[@primafacie9721]

Intelligently designed by an all knowing god. So a universe spanning billions of light years, uncounted galaxies, dark matter and energy, exploding super novas, quasars, etc. all to produce a infinitesimal spec to plant life and worshipers on. Like building a thousand ship fleet of super tankers to deliver one eye dropper of tainted eye drop fluid.

[@phrozenwun]

information intrinsically pertains to communication, that is, it is intended to inform. Without that informative intent a mere aggregation of static state is not information. Where is the intent to inform, the intent to communicate, the engaging and dynamic communicator of this universal state? At best, the universal communicator is static: It's all in your head. And to paraphrase Nietzsche, the communicator is dead.

[@johnd.shultz7423]

If the mind is the source of "free will" why does it so often become enslaved by countless addictions,habitual emotional responses and misunderstood/buried subconscious urges?

[@post1305]

I knew you were gonna ask this

[@richtraube2241]

Armin described exactly what Adam did.

[@TheSnoeedog]

why is it that on every one of these shows, any time the caller starts bloviating along the lines of "what I intend to argue ...." "I plan to establish...." or anything like that, what follows is never worth the introduction. It's not like the caller ever says, "I don't understand the vast majority of the words I intend to use, so sharpen your forks, I'm about to serve some word salad..." at least *THAT* would be worthwhile and meaningful

[@BenjaminJones-y4h]

"selecting from an infinite set requires a mind" entirely false. it only requires initial conditions, and natural selection of events will unfold from there.

[@queuecee]

Is it just me or is the entire comment section on this channel just infested with theist trolls? Apparently one person not feeding the trolls doesn't seem to have discouraged the trolls. 🤔

[@Beacon80]

Yeah. It's quite out of hand. But unless we can get everyone to ignore them, I doubt they'll go away.

[@owersmenbwroten9813]

Troll? Nobody's a bigger troll than you, dear. Actually, I’m gaslighting - probably bottom fishing ;) But we both know only atheists use the “T” word strictly out of cowardice or revenge JUST AFTER I’ve busted their grill - which I’ve been doing on a daily basis for over 5 yrs now on youtube. Every time I SMASH another atheist and their mutt-brained ideas, here comes the name-calling to save face ;) Considering you, I simply know more and am CERTAIN of it. Unlike you, I don't come to these threads in bankruptcy of character, following the path of least resistance w/ guesses and the hope that God doesn't exist. It's IMPOSSIBLE that God doesn't exist and I prove that irrefutable fact w/ every comment, as I continue to prove ;)

[@queuecee]

@@Beacon80 I'm sure they'll keep posting regardless of anyone responding. But maybe the responses keep them entertained. It's just a shame that they are such cowards that they aren't even willing to have real debate to defend their idiocy, especially on their complete, utter ignorance of science. But, oh well.

[@holgerlubotzki3469]

Both NEPPY and the FloBloJOBoi are deliberately ignoring the fact that the only win they've had since they came to this channel was playing a key role in Denny taking the final step out of his bible delusion and into the real world of rational atheism! Well Done, boys! The AXP community applauds your work!

[@wyldink1]

I think they're gluttons for punishment. They get off on public humiliation.

[@AlexPBenton]

There aren’t any actual “possibilities”. A possibility is just an unknown. What happens, happens, and in a deterministic world it could not have been any other way because of the factors which caused it. We call some things possible because we don’t know every factor in play, but there is only one true set of factors, so there is only one actual “possibility”, and it’s reality.

[@Specialeffecks]

I have a rock that has an "unrestrained ability to represent information"...trillions of bits: the exact location, property, element and molecule of everything it consists of. And - it can roll onto and smash a DNA molecule in the amoeba that's underneath it.

[@blueredingreen]

It's "I don't know how else all these complex things could've come about", but just with a lot of big and obscure words wrapped around it to make it sound insightful and intellectual. I'm annoyed when people do that, because what they're saying doesn't make sense (even though I understand what they're trying to say), I get the sense they themselves don't even really understand what they're saying, and whenever you try to break thing down into plain understandable English, they just hold up their shield of big and obscure words, and you can't dig into what any of it actually means.

[@jayrose8638]

With only a couple hours left until the 61day fail streak reaching 62 days it seems none of the “theist” in these threads are capable of providing any convincing reason to believe in the existence of any god, gods or other divine or supernatural beings. Can none of them do any better?

[@joshsheridan9511]

Apparently not

[@jayrose8638]

@@joshsheridan9511 sure doesn’t look like it. Also seems they don’t know the average length of a month either lol. But I owe it to them to help them improve themselves and sometimes that takes pointing out their failures.

[@robertjsmith]

Mind and free will are concepts not inherently real things

[@amaryllian7853]

Weirdly enough I had a similar thought as this caller at some point. Something like “The universe IS God because systems”. What I’d say to that now is yeah, but that assertion isn’t really.. useful at all. One of these guys said it well, that why necessarily attach all this baggage to the idea.

[@jayrose8638]

Just a few short hours away from the “theists” fail streak reaching 61 days. If anyone thinks they can break this streak and provide even a single convincing reason to believe in the existence of any god, gods or other divine or supernatural beings then now is your chance. Not expecting much though.

[@owersmenbwroten9813]

I've destroyed all your Godless ideas the moment you presented them. So, put down the beer, kid.

[@wyldink1]

@@owersmenbwroten9813 The only thing you ever destroyed was a crunchy taco on your multiple chins, novice. Try to learn.

[@TheRaven_200]

​@@owersmenbwroten9813 You destroyed nothing

[@cy-one]

@@owersmenbwroten9813 My "godless idea" is: Nobody has ever presented me with a syllogistic argument for their god that was both sound in premises and valid in logic. Feel free to destroy that.

[@post1305]

What about that guy who built a big boat cos it rained a bit. And he went all around the earth and got 2 of each of the millions of specious of animal (1 male, 1 female) and put them all on the boat, presumably in separate cages so they didn’t all kill each other….and got enough food onboard to keep them all alive….also got the fresh water fish too I guess cos presumably the flood was salt water that would have killed them. What’s not to believe? It’s written in a very old book from way back when people didn’t know anything, so must be true. Not enough evidence ? Want more? One word…..banana (fits in your hand , therefore God). Amen

[@Deadman1000]

I feel like Adam needed some dressing for his word salad

[@istvansipos9940]

rant flavoured dressing

[@ApatheticFish3667]

Dear Florida man: I can prove that God is the good one and Satan is the bad one because ________

[@post1305]

Because God is GOoD with an extra O and Devil is evil with a D added. Must be true. Satan is an anagram of Santa tho, so who knows what to believe!

[@erniemathews5085]

Adam's picture is next to 'jejune' in the dictionary.

[@billyquaide1902]

What did Adam mean by 'inferring' god from design? He means he also agrees there's no evidence for god. That's called a win.

[@HoneyTone-TheSearchContinues]

@@JESUS--NEVER--tAPPED No. So far, everything we observe has parts (as we define parts). You are hypothesizing “design” from that. Go ahead and show a designer, then show that designer actually designing something. Only then might you be able to connect that designer to other things that you think are designed.

[@TheRaven_200]

​@@JESUS--NEVER--tAPPED Prove there is design.

[@joshsheridan9511]

Adam's putting the cart before the horse, he'd have to prove design before inferring a god

[@joshsheridan9511]

​​@@JESUS--NEVER--tAPPEDnot one of those words demonstrate that the universe is designed. Like it or not Flo just because it looks designed to you doesn't mean it is designed

[@t800fantasm2]

@@JESUS--NEVER--tAPPED Stupid people disprove design by simply existing... Thank you for disproving design by just being here...

[@markfoth1226]

Most boring non argument ever

[@thesaferoom6968]

i like to watch this show, and pause and think about the anser i would give to a theist, this one took 5 seconds before i realized it was the "irreducibly complex" argument XD

[@Beacon80]

Do it long enough, and you won't even need to pause. 😁

[@analizandoliteratura9958]

It is just a Gish Gallop

[@myyahoo4537]

Its amazing how defensive believers become when someone logically leads them to truths.

[@amtlpaul]

1.21 Gigawatts complains that I find it very easy to reject his baseless assertions. And indeed I do. He'd make it a lot harder to reject his claims if he could rationally support them with evidence. Unfortunately he can't.

[@joshsheridan9511]

Rationality and gagedonit have never met and he's become boring.

[@Beacon80]

Apparently if I try to use his exact same tactics, I'm not acting logically, but anyone who questions him is just saying "nuh-uh" 🤣

[@amtlpaul]

@@Beacon80 he has zero self-awareness

[@nealjroberts4050]

They really seem to dislike anyone using their op claim against them 😂

[@t800fantasm2]

Yeah, giggle twat is just a mentally ill liar and it's time he got called out on it more...

[@BenjaminJones-y4h]

free will or determinism is like a coin. it's the same thing but you can only see one side at a time. the universe has many of these conundrums.

[@queuecee]

The equivocation fallacy occurs when a term or phrase is used in different senses within an argument, leading to a misleading conclusion. Essentially, it involves a shift in the meaning of a key term during the course of the argument, creating confusion or ambiguity. For example, you start with a philosophical/theological definition of free will, and then you make an argument using the legal definition of free will to fallaciously say that denying a libertarian free will is akin to declaring yourself legally insane. It's amazing how theists make these fallacious arguments here and tell themselves that they are somehow "winning" some imaginary debate. And all the while, none are brave enough to have a real discussion to defend their argument.🤦‍♂️

[@Twentydragon]

21:00 - Adam, how do know any other such values are possible?

[@susanrobertson984]

Love that cosmic 🦞 bisque.

[@Mr_badjoke]

when he set the context in the beginning! 💫

[@xxIAshesIxx]

I understand where the caller was coming from, I like exploring the argument of our minds, how & why it works the way it does. I have to look onto the topic more, but would love if yall discussed monism and the mind.

[@stephenolan5539]

Have you ever been drunk? Or extremely tired?

[@joycesky5041]

Adam must be a glutton for punishment trying to use apologetics on Forrest, Amin, and Seth... he's asking to have his head bashed in! Lol

[@LHRPG_Official]

In the beginning, man created God.

[@brucebaker810]

Yep. Also mentioned on the cover of Jethro Tull's Aqualung. 1971?

[@BenjaminJones-y4h]

Does a rock have a mind as it interprets the information of water currents by means of tumbling in the river?

[@chrisgraham2904]

An item that is designed does have a mind behind it. The mind has manipulated the available information in order to create the design. The mind must have free will, because it must make choices to create the design and a design is always subject to change. The designer must make a choice, based on information, whether to utilize a 3 inch long lever in the machine or a 3 foot long lever in the machine. The information regarding lever performance will determine which lever size best suits the needs of the machine design. The laws of physics and nature have no evidence of design, nor do they display evidence that free will exists or that they capable of choice. A golf ball dropped from a height of 15 ft will always fall down in the direction of the center of the Earth. Gravity is a fixed principle of attraction between two bodies of mass. When the golf ball is dropped, the golf ball, nor the Earth are influenced by a mind. Nether has free will and therefore, neither has choice. Neither of the masses can choose to take a different path. It is that way and there is no evidence that the interaction was designed that way.

[@jexelbur6872]

The problem with free will and god’s plan, apart from the contradiction, is that according to religious people god can see infinite possibilities of us making decisions. We as people can only see a handful of options, and even then, we only experience the decisions that we make. Someone could choose to do one thing but then change their mind, but you would still only see those scenarios.

[@nealjroberts4050]

It's quite clear that we don't have infinite probabilities available to us.

[@photographyenthusiast9941]

By the way, the English Language does not define words that ambiguously. That’s why we have so many words.

[@keaco73]

This caller sounds a lot like Jonathan Mclatchie

[@Disturbed0neGaming]

Why does Adam keep citing known liars as if they're some sort of authority?!?

[@ann18o96]

As of today, we can't know for sure if we have free will, can we?

[@landsgevaer]

From what I gather, it seems more likely that we do not have "free will" (as in "someone could have chosen to act differently"). Indeed, we're unsure. But maybe I am biased.

[@nealjroberts4050]

Neither those for or against the existence of free will have a convincing conclusive argument

[@landsgevaer]

@@nealjroberts4050 Hmm. Conclusive, no. Convincing, I'd say yes. I would personally certainly say that free will (as in "I could have chosen differently") isn't quite what we think it is.

[@nealjroberts4050]

@@landsgevaer Yeah. A lot of what people claim is free will turns out to be judgements between options and not free choice.

[@TheLightlock]

I feel like its worth pointing out that his definition of a mind is something that can represent information and has the "unconstrained" ability to represent information

[@TheLightlock]

@@369spartan are you a bot that I tripped or do you just operate on word association without actually reading or understanding anything

[@TheLightlock]

​@@369spartan so are you a bot or are you just lazy?

[@joshsheridan9511]

It looks like the spambot has added ginger people to the list of those he has an irrational bigotry towards. Everyone should ignore him, he seem quite happy to talk to himself.

[@Beacon80]

I just report him for hate speech these days.

[@joshsheridan9511]

@@Beacon80 I ignore him, it's the worst thing you can do to a troll like spammy.

[@nealjroberts4050]

I treat them like Jaffles or ignore them.

[@ApatheticFish3667]

@@369spartan So... you have no rights.

[@monkeybznzz]

I really appreciate you guys and find you all extremely intelligent. However, this was such a waste of time. This guy just said, “I believe this makes sense, so it makes sense. FACTS!” It has become a disease in the world that “If I say it enough, it’s true!” Is there a god? We don’t freakin know! But, we’re pretty sure there isn’t. And if anything, we are one step closer to not believing in god. So, job well done caller! IGNORANCE!!!

[@donneuner2883]

Team Satan 🎉💖🖖🏽

[@smochygrice465]

Thank God for creating Satan 🙏

[@joshsheridan9511]

​@@JESUS--NEVER--tAPPEDDenny, disproves your winning team lie

[@Tuna_Man2323]

Ave Satanos

[@ApatheticFish3667]

@@JESUS--NEVER--tAPPED If Jesus is winning why is atheism slowly overtaking it?

[@Leszek.Rzepecki]

Q: If the eye is perfectly designed, why do so many people need glasses? A: Because you sinned and masturbated in your youth. I was actually told this one time! 😂 In any case, if the eye is perfectly designed, how come in vertebrate animals the retina is inside out, while in squid and octopi it's the right way around? Is god a squid? How many tentacles does god have?

[@dareqmaynard1551]

Is it not at all possible that the universe, and everything within it, was designed?

[@18dot7]

By what? And why?

[@BenjaminJones-y4h]

derpa derpa derpa because universe, god must be derpa derpa. that's all it was.

[@post1305]

Would a designer / creator that can do anything and create anything, really come up with making us such that once a day we have to crouch down and push poo out of our bumhole ? Can you people who claim to talk to God please ask him why he would do that? It seems like such a bad, and unnecessary, design flaw. Especially when he could have just designed it so that we don't need to do that. Such an odd thing to create. This alone is enough to suggest that either 1. There is no designer, 2. There is a designer but he has some really bad design ideas, 3. He's a prankster or something?.......option 2 isn't possible if he is all knowing.....option 3 seems very unlikely. That only leaves option 1. Unless someone has an option 4 ? and not just 4. Mysterious ways.

[@jaflenbond7854]

The FREEDOM and FREE WILL of ATHEISTS and RELIGIONS Atheists, Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, SDAs, Catholics, Baptists, Methodists, Born Again Christians, Buddhists, Muslims, Hindus, and fanatic members of all kinds of Religions in the world are all FREE to - 1. raise, glorify, and exalt themselves as greater, powerful, glorious, higher and superior than GOD and Jesus Christ 2. degrade their co-human beings including their own families and neighbors as worthless, useless, lower, lesser, and far inferior than them The WILL and FREEDOM of GOD GOD is FREE to honor and reward with ETERNAL LIFE and existence on Earth without sufferings, pains, griefs, sickness, and death all persons on earth who willingly submit to the authority of Jesus Christ as his Chosen King and Ruler of the heavens and the earth. GOD is FREE to let Jesus Christ RESURRECT back to life all his loving, kind, and respectful Worshippers who died recently and thousands of years ago like Abel, Noah, Abraham, Sarah, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, Job, Naomi, Ruth, King David, Jesus Christ's disciples and followers, and many others so they can fully enjoy his and his Christ's eternal love, kindness, goodness, compassions, generosities, favors, and blessings for eternity as submissive and obedient subjects of the "KINGDOM of GOD" or His Kingdom under the loving and kind rulership, guidance, and protection of Jesus Christ as his Chosen King and Ruler of the heavens and the earth.

[@joshsheridan9511]

​@@jaflenbond7854why?

[@Im_done1701]

Wow, this was a boring call. Not because of the hosts, because of the very well enunciated word salad coming from the caller.

[@Soujourn_Sylvain]

The repeated asking of the same question without the allowing the caller respond or think is just obnoxious. It seems like a cheap way to make the caller seem incompetent, flawed as their beliefs may be. Ask the question, let them think, if they then fail to answer the question, ask again. The back to back question spam is unnecessary and comes off as bad faith and childish.

[@paulgemme6056]

For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

[@18dot7]

Yawn. Lame babble. Does such rubbish convince you a god exists? Thinking is not exactly your field, is it?

[@thetruefirelord2248]

A word that is too vague is useless... just like a certain book that has infanit interpretations that are all just as valid as the next

[@crazyprayingmantis5596]

Why not the elbow? Or ankle? Big toe?

[@BLAB-it5un]

The saddest weakness in humans is this insane emotional plea for their god to be real. They demand that it is despite any evidence, demand that their proposition be accepted until proven otherwise and then they complain when people challenge them. It is such a spectacular waste of time and energy and resources. It would be so much healthier for humans to embrace the mystery without any of the crazy god claims clouding their pursuit for answers. We are way past the point where tolerating and even honoring those of faith, an insanely immoral proposition in itself, should have ended.

[@jaflenbond7854]

Atheists and Christians DON'T BELIEVE that the Creator is the True and Sovereign GOD and Jesus Christ is the Creator's Chosen King and Ruler of the heavens and the earth. HUMAN BEINGS were CREATED to LIVE and EXIST on EARTH FOREVER All persons on earth who love, honor, and obey the Creator as their loving, kind, and merciful GOD and Heavenly Father in obedience to what were written in Matthew 22: 37 and John 17: 3 and believe the authority and teachings of Jesus Christ about the "Kingdom of God" and "Resurrection of the Dead" as written in Matthew 28: 18, Luke 4: 43, and John 11: 25, 26 are clearly the Worshippers of the Creator and Followers of Jesus Christ on earth who can be trusted with anything and are worthy and deserving of the loving, kind, and merciful Creator's favor and reward of ETERNAL LIFE and existence without sufferings, pains, griefs, sickness and death on a safe and peaceful Earth without liars, slanderers, perverts, traitors, and murderers as written in Revelation 21: 3, 4, 8. The Creator KNOWS that all human beings will just return to dusts after their deaths just like the animals as written in Ecclesiastes 3: 19, 20 ; 9: 5, 6 but he knows too that he will not let his loving, kind, and respectful Worshippers who died recently and thousands of years ago like Abel, Noah, Abraham, Sarah, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, Job, Naomi, Ruth, King David, Jesus Christ's disciples and followers, and many others to remain as worthless dusts forever, instead, in the right and proper time, he will let Jesus Christ RESURRECT them back to life so they can all happily, peacefully, and abundantly live and exist on earth forever as submissive and obedient subjects of the "KINGDOM of GOD" or His Kingdom and fully enjoy his and his Christ's eternal love, kindness, goodness, compassions, generosities, favors, and blessings for eternity under the loving and kind rulership, guidance, and protection of Jesus Christ as his Chosen King and Ruler of the heavens and the earth as written in Revelation 11: 15.

[@joshsheridan9511]

Why?​@@jaflenbond7854

[@guitarizard]

​@@jaflenbond7854"Often, the less there is to justify a traditional custom, the harder it is to get rid of it." -Mark Twain, 'The Adventures Of Tom Sawyer

[@jaflenbond7854]

@@guitarizard The FREEDOM and FREE WILL of ATHEISTS and RELIGIONS Atheists, Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, SDAs, Catholics, Baptists, Methodists, Born Again Christians, Buddhists, Muslims, Hindus, and fanatic members of all kinds of Religions in the world are all FREE to - 1. raise, glorify, and exalt themselves as greater, powerful, glorious, higher and superior than GOD and Jesus Christ 2. degrade their co-human beings including their own families and neighbors as worthless, useless, lower, lesser, and far inferior than them The WILL and FREEDOM of GOD GOD is FREE to honor and reward with ETERNAL LIFE and existence on Earth without sufferings, pains, griefs, sickness, and death all persons on earth who willingly submit to the authority of Jesus Christ as his Chosen King and Ruler of the heavens and the earth. GOD is FREE to let Jesus Christ RESURRECT back to life all his loving, kind, and respectful Worshippers who died recently and thousands of years ago like Abel, Noah, Abraham, Sarah, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, Job, Naomi, Ruth, King David, Jesus Christ's disciples and followers, and many others so they can fully enjoy his and his Christ's eternal love, kindness, goodness, compassions, generosities, favors, and blessings for eternity as submissive and obedient subjects of the "KINGDOM of GOD" or His Kingdom under the loving and kind rulership, guidance, and protection of Jesus Christ as his Chosen King and Ruler of the heavens and the earth.

[@atheistcat2296]

Armin. You're cat is a god. All cats are gods.

[@ig4299]

🤘

[@justinbyrge8997]

🤔 What if our subjective experience including all qualia, drives and motivations, desires, and impulses were created by the brain? And what if what is actually "out there" that we call objective reality is nothing like our subjective experiences? What if objective reality is comprised of far more than what we experience? And what if our brains process more information in the background of our experiences, limits them, interprets them, then translates the limited information into what we call subjective experience? 🤔 Sounds like a God to me. And what if humans have always been curious about the world and have been trying to figure it out as best they can albeit very influenced and conditioned by upbringing, culture, other environments, etc. and even though they do the best they can with what they have - so have made lots of mistakes along the way? What if the further back in time you go, the more mistakes you tend to see? Maybe we can pick up a collection of science or psychology books from the 18th century and see glaringly obvious mistakes being taken seriously? Maybe we go back 4,000 years and forget that people back then didn't separate things into the same kind of categories as we have been conditioned to have based on our culture and so on so there are so many mistakes that we can't even recognize what they're taking about and so make fun of it? 🤔 Seems like the evolution of the different sciences that weren't considered or even known to be separate categories to me. How about you? It's not our faults that so many people have used religions and their texts to further there own agendas and harm people in various ways since the beginning. And it's also not our faults that doubters have also used their views to further their own agendas and harm people in various ways from the beginning. Side note: when humans succeed in creating an AI indistinguishable from humans or a game with simulated human AI that are indistinguishable, left to their own devices... do you think that those AI will evolve in similar ways that humans have in their questioning about their creators, wars and all? 🤷 Hurry up and build them now to find out LMFAO 🤣😆🤣😆

[@themasculinismmovement]

*Gasp!* The internet is GOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[@ahh_yes_mr_bax]

Just skip the whole idea of showing a need for a “choice” to be actively made by a mind, and instead just define a universe where nothing can happen unless a choice is made by a mind with free will. A huge amount of leaps and assumptions

[@wwlib5390]

Jesus loves you. Draw near to Him and He will draw near to you - and you will know for certain that He exists and is present in your life.

[@Seticzech]

Still in that horrible cult? 🙂

[@istvansipos9940]

04:43 sigh... just tell us what the g0d is, and present a method to test your claim.

[@smochygrice465]

I guess that would explain the information we have on evil as a way to show Gods design of evil through a proxy known as Satan. And Gods design of atheism 🙏 Peace Love Empathy From Australia 🇦🇺👊🤠🤘

[@NEXUSKNIGHT2]

New avatar? Looks pretty awesome

[@niblick616]

@smochygrice465 1/ You keep forgetting to address the elephant in the room. That is, nobody, including you, has ever demonstrated that any ‘god’, including yours, has ever existed on earth, by using at least some valid and verified evidence and facts. Why do you keep running away from doing that simple thing? Simple, that is, if your ‘god’ thing ever existed! 2/ Asserting, as true, something you cannot demonstrate is true, is lying. Why do you need to keep lying like that? Do you really think that lying so much is a good look for you, your invisible ‘god’ thing or your religion? 3/ Your ‘god’ thing lied in the book it supposedly ‘inspired’ about itself, so why can it not simply show up, stop hiding and tell its own lies to our faces?

[@smochygrice465]

@@niblick616 If there was no God then there would be no actions in this world considered evil. It's that simple!

[@cy-one]

@@smochygrice465 *" If there was no God then there would be no actions in this world considered evil. It's that simple!"* I disagree. "Evil" just means "very bad," once you remove the religious baggage. There's no necessity for any deity to exist to consider something to be "very bad."

[@BenjaminJones-y4h]

"The only way something can be specified from a range of possible values, is if there is a mind doing the selecting" ENTIRELY FALSE. any outcome merely requires initial conditions and time. initial conditions... things happen... you get outcomes. it's that simple. Does God guide every leaf as it falls from the tree to the ground?

[@Specialeffecks]

If this thing is such an important issue that we must modify our lives regarding it, PLEASE skip all the convoluted discussion and just show me the god thing!

[@pogers625]

The whole argument for God by logical path thing is just annoying. Okay, yes, this can hypothetically only be done by that, and this does look like this, so I guess there's a super that, that did this, for this to be perceived by that. But that still doesn't get you much I guess you could extrapolate the existence of a God but you definitely couldn't a personal God. But realistically, the only thing that is being proved is we have a shity system for communication

[@yep_2431]

Armin talking to him made him seem like such a snake. He couldn't agree to one thing and misinterpreted and extrapolated some bull shit that wasn't there BTW Forrest you may have heard the argument a million times but you gotta quit going at it from a selfish perspective. You're here for your audience, you're here to entertain us and make content that pays the bills. Dismissing and acting bored or disinterested is not fun to watch. You should try to take any call and make it entertaining for those who haven't heard it before, or drop the call and move on. You're there one that went on for 20 minutes because it's your show, Host.

[@elkeism]

I MO consciousness is not generated in the brain but is processed by it: that would mean it either comes from outside or seeded in our being in utero.

[@joshsheridan9511]

Evidence?

[@nealjroberts4050]

Your opinion can be dismissed without evidence then

[@elkeism]

@@nealjroberts4050 similarly I see no evidence consciousness is generated in the brain, so what??

[@elkeism]

@@joshsheridan9511 IMO = in my opinion, no evidence required, if you know of any evidednce that shows the brain generates consciousness, do share.

[@nealjroberts4050]

@@elkeism So you're ignoring all the ECGs and whatnot experiments? You ignore all the studies of child development. And most importantly studies of brain damage. At least i don't have to _ignore_ evidence

[@archivist17]

Wordplay, and taking an unsupported inference of an active agent. Sounds like an intelligent guy, but not grasping all the consequences.