Input Lag and Frame Rate Limiters

Can a modern adaptive-sync display beat a CRT to displaying a frame? In certain situations, yes! Here I measure input lag in Unreal Engine, CS:GO, and ezQuake, and offer suggestions for the use of internal and external frame rate caps to minimize latency.
www.aperturegrille.com/

[@pinkysjams6372]

Absolutely floored with your content. Thanks for dealing in the work to answer the real questions on what makes a monitor good. Subscribed!

[@ApertureGrille]

Whoa. Thank you!

[@TheRealWarez]

Your videos are soooooo good man. Its actually insane.

[@ApertureGrille]

Wow. Thanks!

[@elgreco17]

I love your statistical research approach to this kind of stuff.

[@kamakafinikamkam]

Great quality content! I can't see you not having massively more subs soon if you keep this up.

[@remytv__]

Your content is insane for 1k subs. GG man keep it up

[@josipreponj1928]

You and Battle(non)sense would get along really well. :) You should of included v-sync off.

[@wii166]

I just subbed to your channel please keep doing these kind of tests they are AMAZING.

[@saiprasad8078]

You deserve way more subs - also am subbed. All the best for the future.

[@TheAnvilMan]

Underrated content. Great video.

[@Gyujjtgbions]

I could listen to you all day

[@musikalniyfanboichik]

insane quality, may youtube algorithm bless you

[@Microfire69]

the last few tips were really helpful

[@victosab]

All this confirms the experiences of ans Battle(non)sense and BlurBusters. Thank you for this high quality work !

[@Baorihs]

Just discovered you website and chanel, great stuff, subscribed and good luck with future content.

[@mikem.s.1183]

Superb. This also confirms Battle{Non}Sense results. Top video

[@Tracks777]

lovely stuff

[@ktg_2castle960]

What’s genius I love these videos, watching for the third time

[@Jack-zt1sr]

I salute you sir. A gentleman and a scholar!

[@Petrakeas]

Great video! Didn't expect ULLM to help with VSYNC on though!

[@Hustlah-]

thanks for this man keep up the good work!!!

[@musicxxa6678]

Seems like the most convenient usage is this(all from nvidia panel): 1- Gsync enabled 2- Vsync enabled 3- Fps cap -1 of max refresh rate 4- Ultra low latency mode enabled So you get gsync all time, reduced latency at full gpu utilization thanks to ullm, vsync prevents small overshoots going out of sync range. Am i right ?

[@oneMurilognt]

Wow amazing stuff, I'm impressed

[@dlavian5400]

Excellent video!

[@bokisatrii]

What about Adaptive Sync ON vs OFF? Does it increase latency? Maybe try both situations with: 1. Unlimited FPS 2. Capped at monitor Hz 3. Capped below? (Don't know if this makes sense but yeah)

[@artemis.sonder]

THIS

[@jeffjager887]

Excellent content!!!

[@AlexandreZiebert]

First of all, thanks for the awesome content! Second, are you able to integrate REFLEX into your UE4 test app to check it's latency reduction at 100% GPU utilization?

[@JeremyAdcock]

Amazing content! really love the technicality and deep dive, both on you site and here on youtube-I've learnt a lot! Quick question: which of the monitors you have reviewed would you recommend for a Quake 3 CPMA (125 fps for movement) and QuakeWorld (uncapped fps, though I don't own a gaming PC) player looking to relive the halcyon days playing on a CRT? Thanks again for the deep dive.

[@ApertureGrille]

Thanks! For Quake, you may just want to find a used CRT for sale. :) I haven't been keeping up with monitors lately, but I still really like the ASUS VG279QM. For chasing that CRT-style image, though, I think something newer like ViewSonic's XG2431 might be better. Haven't personally seen it, but it has the newer Blur Busters certification, which means it can strobe at any refresh rate you'd like, even 60 Hz.

[@xxxPrzybyLxxx]

Awesome research!

[@daniyarassylbekov9854]

Just from curiosity, did you drag tear line in scanline sync up? I might be wrong I believe you should pull it to down for faster frame delivery, and putting it upwards adds 1 frame of input lag. Could you test it please?

[@Novalax]

Does ultra low latency and anti-lag incur an input lag penalty when you’re not in a gpu limited scenario?

[@KyoukiDotExe]

This was amazing, thank you. By Adaptive Sync do you mean the Vertical Sync option Adaptive in the NVCP?

[@musicxxa6678]

Adaptive sync is universal name of gsync and freesync.

[@compuguy123]

I've done some testing and theory with interlaced, it looks like there is less motion blur at high res, and the image quality competes with progressive at 1600 or 1920. I may be wrong but the CRT scanouts being direct interlaced might actually be beneficial here in frame buffer times, because only half a frame needs to be output at once with staggered lines; Then the expected tearing if I am correct and the AMD R9 280x actually renders half the frame at a time to the buffer at least, we should see less tearing than progressive.

[@StenCZE]

great content!

[@madmax2069]

I'd love to see the difference in latency between a game running at 60fps on a 120hz or 144hz monitor, vs a game running at 120 or 144 FPS on a 60hz monitor vs a game running at 120 or 144fps on a 120hz or 144hz monitor.

[@ResilientME]

Very helpful! Is there that same penalty for 100% GPU usage when VSYNC is turned off?

[@daniyarassylbekov9854]

Also could you test how increasing vertical total on a monitor affects input lag and motion clarity

[@enriqueescorcia1753]

What do you suggest I do for my settings? 144hz gsync 1080ti My current settings gsync on null off vsync off game capped at 140fps I just want the smoothness, and non tearing but low latency as i'm competitive in games.

[@alejandroparra28]

Hi! I’m from Mexico and currently have a 165hz monitor from asus and wanted to know if I capped my fps to 162 and that will help me with g sync and that stuff

[@YannMetalhead]

Good video.

[@-Rizecek-]

I have the same monitor as you and to have the monitor fully synchronized, so I have to turn on vsync and lock at 158fps at 165hz, but it occurs to me that it's just not smooth anymore. The biggest problem that annoys me is that even if I turn on vsync, the fps fall to values where they never fall to such a value with free fps.

[@axaro1738]

@a5hun should I enable Radeon Anti-Lag when I'm CPU limited? I have a 5700xt and a r5 1600 so I often ends up being CPU limited with a high refresh rate monitor. Anti-Lag is supposed to be used in GPU bound situations, can it actually be harmful in my case? Btw I really like your analysis and reviews, I just read your VG279QM review, good job!

[@ApertureGrille]

The way I tested lag with my super simple UE4 build can't really simulate a CPU limited situation. I don't expect it would make it any worse, though. I'm using a 7700k for my main system, but I also have an Ryzen 1600 on another PC, so I'll see if I can find some way to test being CPU bound properly!

[@peachesasmr9366]

from my understanding regarding blur busters if you have g sync and vsync on and cap 1-3 below you incur less lag than you would if they were off

[@w0ody16]

Great stuff :)

[@rafaelrj2780]

A help. I am currently playing Call of Duty MW, multiplayer, 1440p resolution. I noticed that the game's fps limiter doesn't work properly, in fact it never worked. I play on a Qled 120Hz Freesync TV, and when I limit the fps within the game to 117 or 120, it doesn’t, I have 125 fps limit. With that I end up noticing tearings (bottom of the screen) and microsstuterings when it hits 125 fps. What would be the best solution to stop tearing and stutter altogether, combining with low imput lag? Setup: R7 2700 @ 4.0Ghz RX 5700 XT 2x8g @ 3066

[@nova_e1121]

i have a general question. if i have set a limit of lets say 59.98 in rtss for fps cap and in game 58 fps. is the rtss limiter disabled does the rtss limiter affect my game? my question is because i have a setup for my rtss for general games but some games have ingame limiter. to avoid going always out and disabling rtss i wanted to know if rtss kicks still in even if my ingame cap is lower than the one of the RTSS. i do this for avoiding high input lags. and some values are even better for this. and especially ingame caps are better tho. thats why my question.

[@ApertureGrille]

Using RTSS like that is a pretty clever solution to use for games that don't have internal caps. If the in-game limit is set lower than RTSS, RTSS won't be doing anything, so it's safe to leave it on generally.

[@heni63]

So, with what gpu usage go u get the lowest input lag but compared to the lower input lag by more fps? I guess the impact of Fps on Latency I can read by myself, but I don't know the percentage :D

[@SB-mr2nk]

Curious what the latency results are with vsync on with no frame rate limiter if you have multithread rendering and rhi.SyncInterval 2 + rhi.SyncSlackMS 0

[@D3ft0ne]

So are the frames being limited with vsync on? of off?

[@elesinalex]

It was very interesting. Thanks for the testing! Do you have any idea on how Fast/Enchanced sync in comparison with all the other frame limiting methods you've used here work? I love like using Enchanced sync with my RX 5700 and Lacie 22b4, but I have not seen any good tests of Fast/Enchanced sync.

[@ApertureGrille]

I need to buy an AMD card at some point to test all this, but BattleNonsense found Enhanced Sync to work just as well as NVIDIA's ULLM. And Fast Sync should reduce latency if you can get a frame rate that's an integer multiple of your display's max refresh rate. I may test this for the next one. How are you running your CRT with the 5700?

[@elesinalex]

@@ApertureGrille thanks for the info, I somehow missed the Fast/Enchanced sync tests from Battle(non)sense, will check them out. Right now I'm using a cheap 240 MHz 6bpc DP-VGA adapter, but I also have a 330 MHz delock 62967 ordered. There are even better adapters such as Delock 87685 and Sunix DPU3000 which are able of 400+ MHz pixel clock.

[@ApertureGrille]

@@elesinalex Your Lacie can do 140 kHz horizontal clock, right? I'm jealous. The 330 MHz Delock should be good enough for resolutions below 1600x1200.

[@tqtgshscf]

How about tv? If my panel tv broke and i replace with the different one .... Will the input lag change ?

[@Samamurai]

Desperately looking for a 27" 144hz 1440p TN monitor. What would you recommend? I want minimal input lag and refresh rates to be the primary considerations but it would be nice if the image quality wasn't total rubbish. Current considerations include: HP Omen 165hz 27" Model# Z4D33AA Samsung Odyssey G7 27" LG 27GL850 Thanks for the unreasonably high quality and technical content.

[@iamamazing-pw3nt]

So if im correct what you're saying is for games that are less demanding and give off a lot of fps keep adaptive sync on and vsync off with no fps cap. But games that use more power i should have adaptive sync on plus vsync on with a -1 fps cap? And if i put a fps cap, would that have to be from the nvidia control panel, in game, or both? (Edit) Also if i did enable vsync, would it be from nvidia control panel, the specific game or both?

[@abuzainab8257]

It's better to cap fps and turn vsync on and even low latency mode all in game engines

[@bigmastaduke]

Great video! Did you try ullm with vsync and gsync enabled? My old g-sync moni can only do 120hz with these settings (without ullm 144hz). My moni shows when ullm is running when all 3 gpu features are turnd on. When I use ullm the picture gets a bit darker. Do you know what would be the best refreshrate for ullm with my moni? Is there a difference in input lag between 119 to 120 hz with full ullm? Topic suggestion for another video: the influence of highly variable frame rate on "analog" input like mouse or joystick axis. I have the impression that fast mouse movements sometimes have a poor repeatability especially when the frame rate changes during the input. It's best noticeable at low frame rates.

[@ApertureGrille]

Gets darker? That should only happen if you're using a blur reduction mode. For G-Sync monitors, NVIDIA calls it ULMB (Ultra Low Motion Blur). ULLM is NVIDIA's frame-rate limiter and lag reduction setting. Which monitor do you have? Good suggestion about another video! I wanted to look at whether using a mouse with high DPI and low sensitivity was better than the other way around as well.

[@shootinbruin3614]

​@@ApertureGrille ​​ Looking forward to the DPI / sensitivity video! From what I've seen so far, using as high a DPI setting as the mouse sensor can reliably support while lowering in-game sensitivity settings has two benefits: 1 - Reduced input lag brought about by using higher DPI. This has been tested by both Optimum Tech kzbin.info/www/bejne/n568c4egZ7eLfNU and Battle(non)sense kzbin.info/www/bejne/bHLSg5msbrxkZ5I using Nvidia's LDAT. 2 - Increased granularity / precision in aiming granted by lower sensitivity. This is the one that's a lot more interesting to me, even though it's probably less impactful in actual gameplay. I haven't found a comprehensive explanation, but piecing together what I've seen from 3kliksphillip's video kzbin.info/www/bejne/bomxhqNtZdJ3orM and these great demonstrations in CS:GO kzbin.info/www/bejne/hIbMeJ56d8RnbtU kzbin.info/www/bejne/qqSrh5KQfZiHb8U, this is what I've come up with: In 3D games that use rectilinear projection such as first person shooters the in-game sensitivity determines rotational movement by applying a certain amount of change in angle per count registered by the mouse - i.e., x degrees movement per count (or "dot") of the mouse's sensor. Since there are discrete steps in this angular movement, we can determine that there are certain areas in the 3D space that we cannot directly aim at, and that this problem becomes exacerbated as the distance increases. Low sensitivity therefore helps us by reducing the angle change per count, making more of the 3D space accessible to our aim. In turn, and in addition to the latency benefit, raising the DPI allows us to lower the sensitivity while maintaining the same relationship between physical mouse movement and the corresponding change in game. In an ideal world, we would maximize the latency benefit by using an infinitely high DPI and lowering our in-game sensitivity to get to our preferred feel. On the other hand, to get the most precise possible aim, we would use an infinitely low in-game sensitivity value and raise mouse DPI correspondingly. However, neither are really practical since mouse sensors have a ceiling after which they begin to have problems with accuracy (or simply cheat by multiplying the registered counts given to the computer). So practically speaking the best course of action is to pick the highest reliable DPI setting (1600 or 3200dpi for most sensors) and adjust in-game sensitivity to accommodate. Of course, the benefits of high DPI / low sens are mostly academic since with any reasonable sensitivity the inaccessible space would be way smaller than any hitbox anyway - and empirically most pros are doing perfectly well with the "high" sensitivities used with 400dpi, but it appeals to the nerd in me regardless. I could also be terribly wrong about all of this, so knowing how meticulous your are with your work I'm really looking forward to seeing your take :)

[@sashabagdasarow497]

No! WTF?? I watch the video, then take a look at how many views it has, see 5420... What? KZbin, are you alright? This is so helpful and well-done video, and it has 5k views??? This is crazy shit.

[@ApertureGrille]

Haha. Thanks! How did you find the video, btw?

[@sashabagdasarow497]

@@ApertureGrille I think I was just wandering in KZbin for input lag related videos. Tried to find a new way to fix input lag. All the internet yells, that RTSS is the best fps limiter, but it turns out, that it's not that simple.

[@deama15]

I don't quite understand what you meant with nvidia's ultra low latency mode. So why would you want to enable ULLM at all except for when GPU is at almost 100%? In the charts you showed ULLM is always slower?

[@bobnew8332]

Sorry, my English is not good. I have a 60hz monitor, no g Sync, no free sync, and no V SYNC, and I just want the lowest input latency and stable frame time. So when I use the game cap and rtss fps cap, do I need to limit the frame count to 59? Is this delay higher or lower than the frame limit of 100hz?

[@WinterCharmVT]

Absolutely BRILLIANT video. Immediately subscribed. Thank you so much.

[@chrisrosenkreuz23]

great content cheers

[@NotThat3]

You mention at the end how all high refresh rate monitors you've tested have sub 1ms input lag. I'm curious about my Viewsonic XG2530 which according to a couple of places I found online has an input lag in the 8ms area (pcmonitors.info/reviews/viewsonic-xg2530/ www.tomshardware.com/reviews/viewsonic-xg2530-240hz-freesync-monitor,5392-5.html). When I bought it I fell into the '1ms response time' marketing lingo and had no idea I should also be looking at input lag. If this monitor really does have an added ~7ms over competing products than it's pretty much dead in the water for the purpose of competitive video gaming. Different places use different methodology so I can never be sure how different monitors stack up against each other. I gotta say, out of all the places, you have been the most thorough. If only companies could send you monitors for you to test you would have a service that no other place offers on the internet.

[@eniff2925]

I watched the video, I subscribed.

[@Shise-]

Would this work for 240hz? 239fps cap?

[@eniff2925]

Doesn't Ultra Low Latency mode + FPS cap increase input lag compared to just FPS cap? That was the conclusion from Chris's video.

[@marcosyamasaki]

I don’t think so, he said in the last minutes to turn on ULLM and frame cap.

[@AussieZeKieL]

So I was doing it all wrong... I set nvidia frame limiter to 143 and turned g-sync on. Basically I need to use ingame frame limiter, turn g-sync on and turn on ultra-low-latency. It’ll be interesting to see if I can feel the difference.

[@ShoxSerious]

Nice video, i got here by just searching about rtss low input lag on KZbin

[@superbro6413]

Thanks for your work here! Question: If the general rule is to internally limit the framerate 1 frame below the cap of the monitor, does that mean that you wont be able to use blur reduction settings for high refresh rate monitors? To my understanding, blur reduction such as Nvidia's ULMB or Asus' ELMB only work at set refresh rates, so they wont be of use in this input latency reduction method?

[@ApertureGrille]

For games that allow it, you can set an internal limit fractionally below the strobing refresh rate. So for instance, if you're strobing at 120 Hz, with VSync, you have to eat a bunch of lag, but if you limit via the game to 119.9, you can reduce lag at the cost of a consistent hitch every few seconds. You can spread those hitches out by limiting closer and closer to the fixed framerate, e.g. to 119.999.

[@superbro6413]

@@ApertureGrille Thank you kindly. Chris of Battle(non)sense not too long ago released a video regarding frame capping with g-sync for lag reduction, and recommended 4 frames below the max refresh of the monitor, or possibly more with higher refresh monitors. Is just capping the framerate to 1 frame below still good?

[@ApertureGrille]

@@superbro6413 I tested 1 frame below and 3 frames below and found no difference. Perhaps there are some games or engines where you'd want to cap a little extra below if their limits aren't very consistent, but with something like UE4, its cap is steady and accurate. Seems like a "playing it safe" kind of rule, but there's really not that much difference between getting 164 FPS and 161 FPS.

[@superbro6413]

@@ApertureGrille Thanks again.

[@merciless1688]

you're using msi afterburner with Enable unified gpu usage monitoring?

[@swat37]

I only found this great channel through a reddit comment.

[@HAHAHAHAHAHA_6]

Best inputlag analysis : )

[@boa974]

- This is awesome and thanks to you for the great work! When you say to find a monitor with Adaptive-Sync, is it something like GSYNC? - I did not know that turning VSYNC ON and CAPPING the FRAMERATE will reduce the latency, I thought in FPS game you always want to have it VSYNC = OFF - Don't we get better results with VSYNC = OFF and FRAMERATE UNCAPPED? What are your thoughts on this?

[@ApertureGrille]

Thank you! Adaptive-sync, variable refresh rate (VRR), FreeSync, and G-SYNC all are different names for the same adaptive monitor refresh rate behavior. Adaptive-sync has been one of the most impressive tech improvements for monitors in years, and I'd always recommend gamers use it... unless you're going to the lowest input lag possible. I mentioned in the video that I play Quake 2 at 1000 FPS V-Sync Off because that's one of the most immediate and responsive games around; that generally holds, and I've got a video coming out about V-Sync off soon. If you're serious about reducing latency, you should do three things: 1) run games at 300+ FPS, 2) turn V-Sync off, and 3) never let your GPU go above 90% utilization. For most people, though, losing a few milliseconds of latency isn't worth getting all the tearing and stuttering that comes from running V-Sync off.

[@boa974]

​@@ApertureGrille Thank you for this precious information, I mainly play Valorant at the moment. Based on your video I did activate GSYNC and set my in-game FPS limiter to 357 FPS since my monitor refresh rate is 360hz. I also turned off VSYNC in-game and in NVIDIA parameters. I guess this is already a good setting? Now if I want to go low FPS, uncapped the FPS in-game, and keep GSYNC? By the way, my FPS goes between 450 and 750 it's not consistent, does that matter? Also, I don't really see any screen tears or stuttering. Looking forward to your next video! Once again, very well done!

[@ApertureGrille]

@@boa974 if you don't notice the tearing, you can let your framerate run as high as possible. Normally I wouldn't want to let the framerate swing that much, but 450 vs 750 FPS is only a frametime difference of 0.9 ms.

[@brunogm]

@@ApertureGrille Could you test the difference in 60hz and NTSC 59.94Hz if it affects pacing? and for VRR if one has to limit at 58? maybe 119.88 | 120Hz By intuition X/1001 modes will free a little GPU utilization/time!

[@musicxxa6678]

How about no sync ? 60hz 60fps gsync vs 165hz 60fps no sync ? How about LFC's effect on input lag, tear and stutter. Playing Cyberpunk 2077 with RT my fps fluctates around LFC range and i feel like my game is more laggy with gsync. I haven't tried monitors with gsync module but i feel like these gsync compatible monitors are straining with gsync. I feel like with gsync frames are jumping as a whole. Without any sync i see more free and fluid movement and tearing is mostly visible on textures with dense vertical lines on it in games if i look for it. I really don't see tearing as a problem with high refresh rate monitors (its a nightmare with 60hz monitors though) and i was expecting smoother motion from gsync intead of ''tearing fix''. However gsync feels jumpy to me. Even in gsync pendulum demo if you look at the test pattern you can see tearing artifacts without gsync but vertical bar also moves smoothly and defined. With gsync it jumps to the next position and thickens by blurry edges.

[@christianchris8978]

I have a 240hz monitor. Following the facts, I can cap the game to 239 with adaptive sync. Makes sense so far. When I turn on Nvidia ultra low latency mode or Nvidia reflex in game, it automatically overrides my in game cap of 239 to 225. With this being the case, do I turn off reflex or do I leave it on and set the game cap to 224. Thoughts?

[@ApertureGrille]

Reflex is awesome at removing much of the latency penalty when you hit 100% GPU use, but it's still worse than not running into that GPU limit at all. If you want to use both at the same time, you may want to use an internal cap to something a little lower like 220 FPS. That's only a render time difference of ~0.4 ms, but it should keep you away from maxing out the GPU. Hopefully that'll keep you below 90% GPU use, but Reflex will be able to take care of the situations when your GPU use hits 100%.

[@theroberto2202]

Oh nice test!, i have a doubt you use Vsync with adaptive sync like blurblusters do ?

[@ApertureGrille]

VSync was enabled for all the tests, otherwise, during VRR, you'll see screen tearing at the bottom of the screen. Enabling V-sync doesn't increase lag in the VRR range, it just removes the tearing.

[@theroberto2202]

@@ApertureGrille Ahh ok thanks for answer!

[@MysticRixel]

@@ApertureGrille Please add this to the description since it was not fully clear in the video. Thankfully I found this comment :)

[@pedrogarciabuduen9597]

Gamers Nexus Quality video!

[@simonaboxer5362]

Ey! Hope you can help me. I’m from Argentina, and i have the possibility to run csgo at 400 fps,but my monitor is only 60hz. So, should I limit the fps or not? Thank you

[@ApertureGrille]

No. You'll get the benefit of reduced latency even on a 60 Hz monitor if you let the game render as fast as it possibly can!

[@EGLVindi]

Can you review the new EVE monitor that is all over facebook?

[@kaddasixseven3581]

wow this is excellent. Kinda disappointed you didn't include no vsync results just for a comparison.

[@ApertureGrille]

V-Sync off, from the perspective of the swap-chain, is essentially lagless. As soon as a frame is done rendering, the front and back buffers are swapped, and you'll see part of that frame on the screen... with a tear line. That means the lag you "feel" depends ONLY on the game's render time. For instance, I usually play Quake 2 at 1000 FPS V-Sync Off. There are multiple tears on every frame, but a 1 ms render time makes the game feel very snappy. From there, you'll just have a linear increase in "lag" based on the framerate. 500 FPS gives 2 ms of lag, 250 FPS gives 4 ms, etc. So for V-Sync off, higher framerates are always better, but there's not much for me to test. That's why I said in the video that V-Sync off isn't all that interesting :) Try grabbing q2pro or ezQuake and playing at 1000 FPS. It's really good!

[@kaddasixseven3581]

@@ApertureGrille thanks for the clarification

[@yedrellow]

Do the results at the end imply that if you were to somehow get an insane gpu and run games at 7% utilisation that you could reduce input lag considerably?

[@ApertureGrille]

Yes! The drop in latency there has fully to do with the GPU render time with different rendering resolutions. For example: when limited to 60 FPS with a GPU use of only 56%, the GPU render time (how long it takes the GPU to render the frame) is at around 9.2 ms. When I drop the rendering resolution down, the GPU has an easier time rendering the frame, so at r.ScreenPercentage of 20, the GPU frametime is only 2.2 milliseconds, which is why the GPU use drops to 7%, but that GPU render time difference is where the latency reduction is coming from. At lower resolutions (or if you had a mega-powerful GPU), the GPU can render the frame faster, so the final rendered image can show up on the screen with less latency. This is really the same as measuring latency at a higher framerate. Higher is always better.

[@oLuii]

The one thing you got wrong was to name Variable Refresh Rate as Adaptive Sync. Variable Refresh Rate = FreeSync/G-Sync Adaptive V-Sync is another type of driver sync that caps GPU render if FPS is higher or equal than the refresh rate, but allows tearing if FPS drops below the monitors refresh rate. Other than that, great experiment!

[@woobilicious.]

FreeSync is AMD trademark, "VESA Adaptive-Sync" is the "generic" name for FreeSync on HDMI and DisplayPort, and of course that is not to be confused with Adaptive V-Sync.

[@pav1u]

I know this is old but still relevant, blurbusters said its important to cap -3/-4fps from max monitor hz not because of input lag, but to avoid vsync to be activated when using gsync

[@wii166]

We hear all over to set the FPS below 1 or 3 or 4 FPS or even more with higher refresh rate monitors i kind of think a video on this would be nice :)

[@fenegroni]

OMG! Do you have a patreon link? Do you accept donations?

[@BlackgoldTwinduck]

what about not capping the frames is it better than setting it to the hz of the display? like in csgo with max_fps 0

[@BlackgoldTwinduck]

im running a older 144hz screen that doesnt support adaptive hz and im runnig csgo with around 300-500 fps would it be better to cap it to 144fps?

[@ApertureGrille]

@@BlackgoldTwinduck In that case, no. If you're OK with the tearing, the more FPS the better! I mentioned in the video that I play Quake 2 at 1000 FPS, V-Sync OFF. With that, at least some portion of the screen is showing my latest inputs every 1 millisecond. Take a look at 2:30 in the video to see the tearing.

[@TweeZerLEWIS]

Head. Exploded. Thanks again.

[@Alexander-iq6bc]

Hi, great video as always! I'm on a mission trying to find the factuality about some statements regarding inputlag in CSGO. There's some pro players and streamers that recommends specific settings to decrease the inputlag. But their source is always "dude, trust me". The first one is that enabling Anti-Aliasing and Anistrofix Filtering introduces inputlag. The next one is regarding the fps_max setting in game. Where it's said that fps_max "0" introduces input lag and "999" doesnt. All these settings with vsync off. Do you have any knowledge about these very specific topics? Or have the time and willinges to put these statements under the bench?

[@ApertureGrille]

Thanks! I'm generally skeptical when people claim certain settings introduce lag. There are, of course, the big three: V-Sync, 100% GPU utilization, and framerate. These actually have a large impact on lag, compared to something like anisotropic filtering, which should have almost no impact. The fps_max setting might make a difference, but... I doubt it. :) I can look into it, though.

[@Alexander-iq6bc]

@@ApertureGrille Thanks for the reply and thanks for your time!

[@Alexander-iq6bc]

@@ApertureGrille Hi again, have you had any success checking out the fps-setting?

[@Alexander-iq6bc]

I'm sorry if spam this section :D

[@Alexander-iq6bc]

@@ApertureGrille Hope everything is fine! And that you don't think im to persistent! :D

[@Mobiledash52]

That mean we should turn on adapted sync and frame limit with nvidia ultra low latency? this is what u mean?

[@predyaxc]

I hope to be a video with Amd cards

[@ADHD_Junkie]

Will you make an update video on input lag since nvidia Reflex was released?

[@ApertureGrille]

Got something different coming soon, but I'll revisit input lag and Reflex some time after.

[@ADHD_Junkie]

@@ApertureGrille nice, can’t wait!

[@Leon-xo9mc]

Soo where does it gets faster than a CRT? 0:35

[@muwuny]

Now I'm even more confused. So if I'm running with Gsync on, the FPS internally limited to 1 below refresh rate and Vsync on, I should have ULL on, or off?

[@ApertureGrille]

In that case, I'd turn it off. ULLM's cap is pretty aggressive, so it would override the internal cap, and internal is better for latency. For instance, at 165 Hz in UE4, ULLM is capping my framerate to 157, so an internal cap of 164 or 163 wouldn't be doing anything. For games that have good internal caps, external caps are unnecessary and should be disabled. I know I said in the video that you might just leave it enabled globally, but lots of games don't have internal limiters.

[@muwuny]

@@ApertureGrille Ah, thanks for the response and info.

[@muwuny]

@@ApertureGrille Just to confirm though, ULLM is a better alternative to simple external FPS limiters (such as NVCP or RTSS) if there is no internal frame-rate limiter in the game, such as War Thunder? Or should I still just use NVCP to cap FPS instead of ULLM?

[@AussieZeKieL]

Logitech g9x nice, I had one of those, now I’m using the GPro wired, the buttons and front half are fine, but I prefer the side and back end of the g9x. It would be nice if Logitech bring it back with a hero sensor. I’d be all over that.

[@ApertureGrille]

I'm still waiting for something with a modern sensor that has the same shape and feel as the g9x.

[@brett20000000009]

so in-engine limiters are the best but they can't cap at fractional values like rtss can. could you just say cap at 60fps in-engine and just make a custom refresh rate of 60.01hz?

[@brett20000000009]

for strobing modes capping 59hz will give you stuttering but 59.99 does not.

[@ApertureGrille]

@@brett20000000009 That sounds like it would work, but some engines allow decimal limits. For UE4, you can do t.maxfps 59.99 and it'll cap to that.

[@brett20000000009]

@@ApertureGrille Thanks for the reply. I have been playing cyberpunk 2077 it's framelimiter won't do fractional values. I have a single strobe monitor and the vsync lag at 60hz is horrible. I just tried 60.01 with a 60fps ingame cap and it feels way better. :) feels better then rtss.

[@Mobiledash52]

OK so I have nvidia graphics card and my monitor is adapted sync. But my graphic do not support free sync(hdmi) U saying that I should keep monitor adapted sync technology on with framlimit and ultra low latency for best results?

[@ApertureGrille]

Adaptive-sync is amazing for most games, but if your graphics card doesn't support it, I'd suggest turning V-Sync OFF and letting games run as fast as you can. I've got a video coming soon talking about V-Sync OFF, but in summary: for the lowest lag, turn V-Sync OFF, run your games at the highest framerate possible that doesn't max out your GPU.

[@Mobiledash52]

@@ApertureGrille Graphic card support adapted v sync not the free sync. MY monitor is free sync.

[@Mobiledash52]

@@ApertureGrille By adapted sync u mean adapted v sync or I got everything wrong?

[@Mobiledash52]

upload more videos with more precise information please. :(

[@ApertureGrille]

@@Mobiledash52 Adaptive-sync, G-Sync, FreeSync, Variable Refresh Rate (VRR), are all terms for the same thing, but you need at least a Pascal (NVIDIA GTX 1000 series) graphics card to enable it. It won't work on a GTX 980 Ti. I don't quite understand your setup. What is your graphics card and monitor? If you don't have a Pascal (or newer) graphics card, VRR/adaptive-sync/freesync/g-sync won't matter. Just turn V-Sync off and run at the highest framerate you can.

[@RFLCPTR]

So overclocking your 60 Hz Monitor to 65 Hz is worth it to cap all games to 60Hz and therefore decrease the input lag

[@JonasHopp]

Hi a5hun, I was watching this video after buying the VG279QM you tested recently. And I'm trying to minimize the input lag with this monitor in the range near the 280hz mark. I don't have a mouse with a LED and a high framerate camera, so I'm using some in-game reflex meter in ms (highly non-precize, but, follow me please...). I tried using in-game fps_max to 279, and my PC is capable of 400+ in most of situations, if uncap. When I cap to 279 (or any value, really), the variation is between 220 to 27X, seemingly randomly. When I use RTSS to cap at a 279 fps, fps (and hz) stay constant. I have better results (10 to 20ms better) and smoothness, and I don't "feel" the 10ms penalty you were reporting at 164fps/hz with rtss compared to the in-game limiter. Can I ask you, if you ever find the time, to test 279 hz limiters with the Source engine (CSGO is a good exemple) and try replicate my "issue" with the variations of FPS. Maybe it's better to cap with RTSS because the game engine is failing to keep a constant output. I posted an imgur there : imgur.com/gallery/SzqLMW4

[@ApertureGrille]

I'll look into it. I'd be skeptical of any type of reflex-meter, though.

[@JonasHopp]

@@ApertureGrille I'm completely skeptical about it, even though I only looked at the "best result" to have something to compare (and there is no way I improved magically my reflexes by 20 ms between two tests, I'm regularly doing them, it's part of my "fps" routine to check my fatigue level). Anyway that's why I'm requesting help. I sent you an email too, so feel free to ask anything else.

[@ShoxSerious]

@@JonasHopp what was ur solution btw

[@JonasHopp]

@@ShoxSerious Without any proof or real solution, I liked more the perfect consistency of capping with RTSS. But, and I don't know why, I was still seeing tearing artifacts if I capped at 279 hz. under 240fps/hz it's perfect though. So even the screen can go to 279 with VRR, I capped at 240hz in RTSS. Test for yourself if you prefer fps_max or RTSS capping.

[@ShoxSerious]

@@JonasHopp i was trying to use the fps max, but when i use this command my frame time varies a lot, tks by ur answer

[@M3tr1cTTV]

i dont underrstand how you get 1 ms i have 240fps cap under 90% gpu usage on apex i play all low settings with reflex on enabled or boosted or enabled sometimes and i usaually play on 300fps with all low capped with relex on enabled or boosted im quiet unsure im a competitive player

[@OCPyrit]

Nice.

[@barabulkafication]

ULLM showed worse results, than just internal fps limiter, but do i still turn it on? Sry english is nit my native :)

[@ApertureGrille]

If the game has an internal limiter, use that. But if not, ULLM does as well as any other external limiter but also helps in situations with 100% GPU utilization.

[@barabulkafication]

a5hun do i need to use NV drivers fps limiter with ULLM? Monitor is vg27, bought in with big influence of ur review, thx ;)

[@ApertureGrille]

@@barabulkafication Check 3:53. ULLM will work in DX9 and DX11.

[@barabulkafication]

@@ApertureGrille kk, thx for answers!

[@nai4600]

do more of this

[@superbro6413]

Revisiting this video, with Battlenonsense's more recent info on this topic (kzbin.info/www/bejne/o6SyiJaspK52bq8), and considering that I'm a bit ways out to acquiring a high refresh rate monitor, I have a couple questions-- _a)_ How do you reduce input lag for games that cap at 60fps? (Eg: pc ports.) _b)_ How do you reduce lag for a monitor with a max refresh of 60hz? This is keeping in mind variables such as Nvidia ULLM and Reflex, not 100%'d your GPU, etc. Thanks

[@ApertureGrille]

If you don't have a VRR/high refresh rate display, you're pretty much in the same situation as us CRT users. The best way to minimize lag is to turn V-Sync off and live with the screen tearing. But visually, that looks really bad; a 60 FPS game running V-Sync Off 60 Hz will have tear lines that linger and bounce up and down around one portion of the screen. It looks awful. But because there is no render queue, latency is the lowest you can get for 60 FPS. Next best would be to use RTSS's scanline-sync. With that, you leave V-Sync off, but RTSS tries to throttle the CPU so that it presents a frame just in time to be rendered by the GPU. Scanline-sync works really well, as long as your GPU isn't under too much load. You could also enable V-Sync and use the in-game cap to limit to 59.99 FPS. If you limit to just 59 FPS, you reduce the backpressure from the render queue, but you'll get a stutter from the missing frame every second. Limiting to 59.9 has the same lag benefit, but it will only stutter every 10 seconds. I haven't tested how many decimals you can cap just below 60 to keep lag down, but you may not even notice the stutter at 59.9. But really, the best way to limit lag at 60 FPS is to get a high refresh VRR monitor :)

[@superbro6413]

​@@ApertureGrille Dumb question: I imagine it's possible to have a VRR monitor run at a high refresh (eg: 144hz) while playing a game with a max framelimit of 60fps, yes? Since it appears that running a game at a few frames lower then a monitor's max can cut down on lag, then does that mean that any high refresh VRR monitor could play 60 fps games at with lower latency then 60hz monitors? Thanks again for all your help, appreciate the informative videos!

[@ApertureGrille]

@@superbro6413 Yes! kzbin.info/www/bejne/moGweXivr5hriq8 That chart may be a bit unrealistic because a simple UE4 build isn't really doing much work, but the results at 60 FPS on a 165 Hz VRR display are incredibly good. Two things work in the VRR display's favor: 1) the GPU no longer has to wait on the display, so you get rid of V-Sync backpressure while also getting rid of the annoyance of having to use internal or external limiters, and 2) high refresh rate displays scan out their panel from top to bottom faster. For a 60 Hz display, the bottom of the screen is always 16.7 ms behind the top of the screen. For VRR displays, a 165 Hz monitor will scan out the screen from top to bottom in only 6.06 ms (even when displaying 60 FPS content!), so more of the frame gets to you faster.

[@superbro6413]

@@ApertureGrille Thanks again! All this information is very helpful.

[@TheKillerZmile]

Does low latency mode works on csgo tho?

[@ApertureGrille]

ULLM does, but LLM does not. I didn't find any case where LLM had any benefit.

[@TheKillerZmile]

@@ApertureGrille so i put ultra low latency mode globally? thanks! nice vids! hope you make a video about ping , lag etc.