INSANE Doctor Strike In South Korea

[@iannordin5250]

The only reason why we don't think of SK as the dystopic hellworld it is is because they have an even more cartoonishly dystopic nation above them.

[@julianbell9161]

Don’t forget that Kpop plays a huge role in the US thinking of SK as a place where cute people make cute music.

[@oishyundai]

​@@julianbell9161Which is ironic because most k-pop fans are aware of how horrific the k-pop industry is, they just choose to ignore it.

[@viiranen]

"how can they be poor when phone?"

[@tilleliyaz4901]

Lots of exagération from the west about this. I live in Paris and have lived in Seoul. Never felt much safer, carefree than in Seoul. Paris is a shithole.

[@Echo81Rumple83]

and i bet money that they're using that exact model in order to say, "it could be worse, you could still be stuck in NK, so sit down and stfu."

[@IraeimDrawsStuff]

Korean here- What Vaush says here is basically true, but a bit more nuanced What you need to understand is that going to medical school is considered basically "the best choice" for any high schooler here, so if you have the grades for it, you might get some weird looks if you don't apply for medical school and instead try to be, say, an engineer. (We have an actual shortage of engineers, funnily.) This means most medical students and young doctors were "promised" by everyone around them a stable job with high income as a *reward* for being *visibly* in the top 5000-ish of all students their age in high school. Considering how meritocratic it is here, how hierarchical our grading system is, and how much studying we do as a student, most doctors end up having such an entitled attitude- they slaved away their every waking moment studying and "beat" all their peers to go to the "best school" to get the "best job", how dare the government plan on giving out *my reward* to less deserving people? Rural regions and less popular specialties do suffer from a shortage of doctors right now, and the striking doctors do have a point when they say the pure number of doctors isn't the core issue. Because medical care is quite cheap (there are laws about this- not sure of specifics) and we have government-issued healthcare in Korea, hospitals don't make *that* much money (it is, however, enough money to properly pay doctors. Hospital owners pocket a lot of it though). Since doctors were raised to expect such high wages (see above), they quit their rural, less-glamorous jobs and gravitate towards less essential but way more lucrative specialties like plastic surgeons. Striking doctors say that the current medical laws stop essential hospitals from making enough money to support a proper staff of doctors, but that's just code for "we think we deserve this much money and if we can't get it we will quit and go work somewhere else". This is why an increase in med students CAN help our crisis at least somewhat- it's like what vaush said, market economics. I personally think that a big part of the problem is because of the societal influences described above, a lot of young doctors and med students didn't choose their career paths because they *wanted* to be a doctor, but because it was heralded as an obvious best choice. They therefore lack professionalism (we have a scarily high number of criminal cases of doctors abusing their positions for monetary gain outside of hospitals, for example).

[@codegeass7162]

Thank you for this informative and helpful comment that actually provides a reason for the strike

[@eonstar]

Thanks a ton for the context!

[@SilverDragonJay]

very interesting, thank you for explaining in more detail.

[@SEAsnake22]

Very valuable insight, thanks for this

[@strega0]

thank you. this was helpful.

[@wroughtiron6031]

The hierarchical structure of Korean society is a nightmare as an outsider. They took Chinese Confucianism and said "not rigid enough lmao".

[@all_thescience]

The more I learn about modern day South Korea, the more believable the story of Analogue: A Hate Story becomes

[@JoshSweetvale]

Fascism: Not just for white folks

[@manjackson2772]

If anyone interested in this wants to learn more, Moon Channel has a great two part video essay looking into South Korean culture, with a specific focus on the gender war going on there and how it manifests through drama over gacha games. It begins by looking at the plane crash which was caused by neither the co pilot nor the engineer being willing to directly confront the captain when he made a mistake.

[@emdivine]

@@manjackson2772 I should have read your comment before making my other one, deleted that because I didn't remember it was Moon Channel. Moon's breakdown of the plane crash was so eye-opening as to just how honor-crippled their culture is

[@wroughtiron6031]

@manjackson2772 I saw it. Imagine committing a 9/11 by accident because of an age difference.

[@will_from_pa]

Fun fact: South Korea is essentially the world’s largest company town, owned by Samsung

[@albe8479]

rest of the word: "monopolies are kind bad". SK: "NOT ENOUGH MONOPOLIES GIMMIE MORE OH NOM NOM NOM..."

[@Fabrissable]

Samsung, Hyundai and LG - if they left SK their GDP would drop by 30%, that is how much assets they control. For comparison, if Amazon, Apple and Netflix all disappeared, US GDP would not even budge initially, because most assets in US are dispersed between small companies, local municipalities and federal government. SK is pretty screwed, they cannot do anything about their giants, without significantly decreasing their comfort of living.

[@watamatafoyu]

​@JasonM-lq7ri It's from me listening to the video and other things I've heard about South Korea.

[@watamatafoyu]

@JasonM-lq7ri So it's an oligarchy like Russia.

[@theflaggeddragon9472]

Everything in south korea is about status and money. Doctors being "devalued" because the government *needs* more of them is such an offense to these greedy POS. It's pathetic they'd let people forgo medical treatment for their fragile egos.

[@marseldagistani1989]

​@@RandomGuy-lu1en They doubled down on confucianism

[@XMysticHerox]

South Korea is very extreme in this regard (hierarchy in general) but it should be noted it is hardly limited to there. Sadly medical communities being very elitist is pretty common and has a long history.

[@Echo81Rumple83]

they're only devalued if they don't their job well enough. i've seen incompetent doctors under worker's comp fit that description very well.

[@Creamy6oodness]

​@@XMysticHerox "Doctors are gentlemen, and a gentleman's hands are always clean"

[@ni9274]

It's not only about that, the government plan to increase doctor way to rapidly (they're practically doubling the number of graduates in 5 years) and doesn't address any of the already present concerns, they must see this as an political move that will have negative effect on the long term

[@Gear3k]

Doctors: "We're super overworked! Government, do something!" Government: "Ok we're training more doctors." Doctors: "Not like that"

[@poposterous236]

this whole thing is making me sick, someone call me a doctor

[@shemshate]

Free yourself from your chains, become your own doctor.

[@cryo1195]

Can't, they're on strike

[@shadowwarrier4416]

Sorry there are no available doctors it appears there is a shortage

[@FatalAlcatraz]

That will be one month of your salary! Next!

[@YokaiX]

Eat an apple instead

[@pedroff_1]

Honestly, given my experience with doctors, not surprising at all. If you didn't tell me they were Korean, I could easily helieve this was here in Brazil. This aristocratic mentality plagues foctors everywhere and, as a med student, I hate it

[@crash.override]

"Noblesse oblige" 🙄

[@KappyBank]

They're right to strike though, Vaush misunderstood this story and made it sound like Doctors are just greedy death-merchants keeping the competition out. They're overworked and underpaid, they're very much exploited by the private hospitals. Simply cramming more med students into the grinder will not make life better for anyone except those reaping the profits (not doctors). This is simply not the right time to point the finger at labor aristocracy. As a med student you'll def understand this more than my humanities-ass, so I def recommend you look into it a bit -but I assure you it's not what Voosh made it sound like.

[@thegrandwombat8797]

@@KappyBankBetter conditions would mean hiring more doctors. There are areas where south korean doctors should be getting more pay, absolutely, but the solution to being overworked in a medical setting 100% is to train and then hire more doctors. One of the big things that nurses push for in their strikes in the US is a better nurse to patient ratio, pushing hospitals to hire more nurses so that each one can dedicate their time to giving better care to a smaller number of patients rather than being stretched thin across too many.

[@joshtrue6521]

​@@KappyBank idk what industries You've worked in, but it's pretty universal that being understaffed and having a massive workload put on fewer employees is the single worst working condition imo besides maybe being actively abused by a manager

[@KappyBank]

I think my last reply got eaten by some filter for having choice words about the president of South Korea. Regardless, the increased workpool may lighten some issues in the short-term but obviously this is an entirely for-profit healthcare problem. The incentive structure is broken and the new doctors will surely be driven out of rural clinics and focus on lucrative specialist positions or plastic surgery. The doctors will obviously be paid less when their hospitals take in more staff and I frankly just think it's acceptable to have an issue with this. The real point I wanna make before I'm up against the wall and don't know enough about the subject is; maybe more doctors won't be too bad -but it won't fix the overall issues brought up by the doctors -some of them are just focused on the wages but that's market functions, I blame the executive class - the above video by the infamous streamer framed this in a way I find reductive. I thank you for giving me attention and writing responses, it's very nice of you.

[@underthedice1231]

Québec's doctors did this twice. Won both times. Both times the result was LESS services. 2 price point markets are understood and super predictable. What the doctors want will make the problem WORSE. Not "fail to improve." "Worse." People obsessed with suply and demand markets structures will ignore that other market exist and say the wrongest of things. Especially when their pay depends on it.

[@IMelkor42]

"Worse"?

[@underthedice1231]

@@IMelkor42 More expensive for less service.

[@IMelkor42]

@@underthedice1231 You put 'worst', I was thinking you meant worse

[@underthedice1231]

@@IMelkor42 Oh. Yes. You're correct. Thanks for catching that

[@andresmorera6426]

It's as if markets aren't a good way to distribute certain necessary goods and services...

[@yuzustridh3794]

Damn, they eating too many apples

[@sigmascrub]

A similar thing happened with tradesmen in the US. No one wanted to take on apprentices because that would devalue their own labor. Now we have to deal with a shortage of trade labor since that generation retired.

[@Potatotenkopf]

Pretty sure in the US it's a currently ongoing process where many veteran tradesmen don't want to train their own new guys and assist in the potential creation of new businesses and competition down the line.

[@richardarriaga6271]

That just mean people without certifications will do things. Can't hire if no one certified is around.

[@Greyinkling276]

Aww man. There's a big untold aspect to work in America where many trade jobs reorganize and changed to stop recruiting and training new people because the existing workforce wanted better job security at a time. Then those industries eventually hit a point where everyone, even the managers, are retiring or near retirement but they haven't had to train and recruit in decades and no one wants to do the work of figuring out how since they too are retiring. I've seen this first hand a lot in mostly gen x staffed services I come into contact with who all want to retire but their business and trade will die with them and be sloppily outsourced. I don't know enough to say how this relates to unions but the impression I get is that this happened a lot in the 80s maybe 70s, slowly, and was an alternative to relying on unions. You can't be replaced if no one new is being hired. It's part of Millenials being pushed to go to college then finding no jobs 10 years ago and being told "you should have gone to a trade school". No one advertises those. No one trains anymore. They didn't want to competition or to be replaceable.

[@SilverDragonJay]

I don't get being afraid of being replaced by noobs. You have 5+ years of experience and you basically jump ahead of any fresh college grad in the job search. There's only two reasons I can think of why you would pick the new grad: 1) the company is specifically looking for someone to train (very rare, no companies want to train because they're convinced that it will reduce productivity too far and then the new employee will take their training and leave). And 2) the person with 5+ years experience is _shit._ Like they have records of being difficult to deal with or unproductive or something. Otherwise, if you are established in the industry, I don't see why you would be so threatened by a new trainee that you simply wouldn't train anyone. Doesn't make sense to me, a recent college grad, who _still_ hasn't been able to find a position within my field 6+ months later.

[@Greyinkling276]

@@SilverDragonJay well see the thing is that without union protections then big corporations in that time up to now are very keen to replace expensive skilled people with cheaper novices so they can skim more profits off of what's saved. Skills and experience mean nothing to corporate CEOs out to maximize profits. Hell that's why they're so obsessed with AI, they want to bypass labor costs at every opportunity.

[@Loanshark753]

Similar issue in Norway, there is a deficit of high school trades praxis spots.

[@samminicksm]

This is literally happening now in the accounting industry. Everything from forensic accounting and audit to basic bookkeeping, accountants are retiring in waves. I just got hired as an analyst this year, and my entire department is either Late Gen X/Young Boomers (early 60s to mid 50s) or Older Gen Z (early/mid 20s). No in between.

[@LargeGanny]

The east has fallen

[@JoshSweetvale]

Uh, this is status normal for 'the East' for about 2000 years now. Possibly longer, history kinda fades into myth at that point.

[@mosyemessy]

​@@JoshSweetvale whoosh

[@walterk9916]

Which way eastern man?

[@ChatGPT_ChatbotTest]

​@@walterk9916 both

[@vidyagaems4063]

Billions must work unpaid overtime

[@imagomonkei]

The best doctor I've ever had was one year out from retirement when I moved to the area. He took time to really hear me out. My previous GP didn't seem to care very much. I was so disappointed when I found out my new doctor was already retiring. I got _another_ new doctor, and she seems so overwhelmed and exhausted.

[@mogscugg2639]

love seeing the labor aristocracy literally put a price on life

[@JoshSweetvale]

Overpopulation.

[@Gloomdrake]

@@JoshSweetvaledoesn’t exist

[@averagedemocrat9546]

@@GloomdrakeIt does exist. Are you some kind of liberal? Infinite growth is impossible. Although overpopulation isnt much of a problem since birthrates are falling, so we'll most likely never reach the point where we can't extract enough food from the earth.

[@WeenusMcMenace-dm6ep]

​@hja-wo3llNurses aren't labour aristocrats...

[@tsarzamancorpdna]

"But i want to be the special boi!" - stiking korean drs

[@niclas9990]

9:06 80% of the public back the government's plan to raise the cap. I'm not particularly surprised the doctors are being so obviously greedy, because doctors here in South Korea have a very poor image generally, but it's an almost heroic amount of superiority you've got to feel to get in front of your country and tell the great majority they're wrong and you deserve to keep earning multiple times the average salary -- all while restricting their access to more care. Add to this that the same doctors not long ago stood against nurses trying to build a separate system of licensing that would increase legal protections as they pick up the slack and do more and more of the procedures overworked (/lazy) doctors are fobbing off onto them. It's a total shitshow.

[@WishGender]

both of my parents are members of the labor aristocracy (one's a doctor, one was a lawyer) and I cannot imagine them being so gatekeepy and greedy about their professions. it's insane for me to imagine someone not wanting more doctors in the world. How is it possible to be so selfish? the whole point of being a doctor is to heal others! You should be excited that there are more people who can help to heal the people you've sworn to heal. What happened to the Hippocratic oath?

[@julianbell9161]

You must not have interacted much with your parents coworkers. I work in the labor aristocracy as an electrical engineer, and people care way way more about making money and having prestige than they do their fellow man. And it shouldn’t be surprising. Most people who work as doctors or lawyers or engineers do it because their parents pressured them into going into a lucrative field. So keeping the prestige plays a huge role because if there isn’t prestige, many people go “well, than why the fuck did I struggle in school to get this?” The reality is that most people in the labor aristocracy relate way way more with the bourgeoisie than they do the working class man.

[@haleyspence]

labor aristocracy is such a wild concept to hear, I love it way more than "white collar work" lol

[@WishGender]

@@julianbell9161 well my mom's been a homemaker for most of my life so she doesn't have coworkers, and the coworkers of my dad's that I've interacted with have been nice and funny people. Maybe he has good standards for friends haha

[@a_kazakis]

I am not familiar with SK, but I know that in most of the developed world, professions like doctors and especially layers are very saturated. It would be a lot more useful to developed countries if young people took an interest in agriculture and other production jobs instead of going for the same 3-4 professions that are considered high status.

[@XMysticHerox]

Doctors being elitist is sadly very common. Doesn't mean they are not mostly passionate about medicine. But prestige is a huge part of why a lot of people enter medicine.

[@joeblow9699]

This take is way off-base, it's much more nuanced than "doctors greedy." Not to mention SK doctors are essentially being forced by the govt to work and being denied the right to a labor strike. Here's a copy-and-pasted reddit comment from a South Korean medical student that explains this better than I can: Yes, Korea does have fewer doctors compared to the OECD average, but you have to consider the fact that a significant portion of the population is around the capital and our country is tiny. Adjusted for geography and population density, our access to healthcare is actually on the higher end. We have a lot more hospital beds, have very little waiting time, and the general population can access tertiary care with ease (too much, some would say, as our primary care is almost non-existent). Medical students, interns, and residents are all pissed not just because of expanding the number of physicians. The government released a four-package policy that also includes changing our current internship program. In Korea, after med school (six years), you become an intern which is a separate concept from residency. It’s essentially another year of clinical rotation except you are employed and not protected like a student would be. Then you go on a four-year-long residency program, which is the same duration for all specialties unlike in the US. The government has expressed interest on multiple occasions to change the system to two-years internship and three-years residency to increase interest in vital specialties (OBGYN, pediatrics, NS, trauma, cardio thoracic surgery), but everyone doubts that will motivate residents to go into that path. They just want more inexperience interns as disposable labor. The biggest reason why those specialties are avoided is because they are underpaid. In Korea, the Health Insurance Review and Assessment Service (HIRA) control the payment per service/surgery/prescription, etc. That is, around 20% is paid by the patient while 80% is paid by national insurance for a “vital” service. Problem is that HIRA’s standards on what is appropriate treatment deserving of payment is quite arbitrary, not to mention its arbitrary price determination. Lee Guk-jong, perhaps the greatest trauma surgeon and one of the most respected doctors in Korean history, has criticized the HIRA system for decades now, citing it as the primary reason why trauma surgery in Korea is understaffed, underpaid, and overworked. Yet the Korean government only said they would “investigate” into normalizing HIRA payment for vital specialties, and they relegated this part of the plan to long-term/policy-dependent payment(정책수가). This means that it is extremely impermanent, unlike the expansion of number of medical students and two-year internship, which can be passed this year and stay for some ten years or so. (They placed this as short-term action and the rest as long-term). That is the reason why medical students are on leave and doctors are on strike/resignation. Simply increasing the number of total doctors will not help them go into vital specialties if they’re treated poorly.

[@Izalikesbulls]

bumping this up.

[@hebbycakes]

Also bumping because this is informative

[@piperbarlow1672]

Doctors shouldnt be allowed to strike. People die if they arent working

[@viiranen]

TIL about labour aristocracy

[@julianbell9161]

TIL that as an electrical engineer, I’m part of the labor aristocracy

[@theflaggeddragon9472]

Me too!

[@johnh3ss]

In the modern world, members of the labor aristocracy generally also become bourgeoisie eventually through their investments.

[@tomlxyz]

Most won't tho because someone has to do the work

[@johnh3ss]

@@tomlxyz Yeah, the system is designed such that most can't afford to, at least not in any meaningful way. There can only be a small subset of folks allowed to make the jump, mainly so that the rest have some (false) hope to keep them grinding away at their jobs.

[@XMysticHerox]

@@tomlxyz It doesn't really take work though. You just invest some money and you are bourgeoisie. To be a useful distinction it should probably be a significant amount but yes "labor aristocracy" usually does become bourgeoisie. You do not have to be actively inolved in the business. Just own part of it.

[@silviuvisan505]

Only doctors and lawyers can afford to buy multiple houses then rent them.

[@kennethferland5579]

Technically they will become bourgoisie only when they retire and no longer labor because the definition of bourgoisie is that your live by the profits of capitol instead of labor. If a Doctor owns their own practice then they could be considered petty bourgeoisie, but most doctors practices hardly own any actual capitol, being nothing more then rented office space so it's practiclaly just a shell for selling their labor rather then the genuine mixture of labor and capitol profits which would define the classic 'merchant class' that is the prototypical petty bourgoisie.

[@seanelsenbroek7530]

Dr Cox said doctors become doctors for four reasons. 1. Chicks 2. Money 3. Power 4. Chicks

[@ChatGPT_ChatbotTest]

I'm sure there's at least one altruistic doctor

[@ReplicatorFifth]

Scrubs was a great show

[@silviuvisan505]

​@@ChatGPT_ChatbotTest in all shows docs are fucking jesus like in Lost

[@ChatGPT_ChatbotTest]

@@silviuvisan505 so? I don't see how that's relevant

[@Jonas-qg6jw]

I know it’s a joke, but judging from my experience being a medical student in Germany, money is always part of the motivation, but rarely an important one.

[@JARV9701]

North Korea is a dystopian nightmare While South Korea is capitalism paradise

[@FNLNFNLN]

North Korea is a dictatorial dystopia. South Korea is a cyberpunk dystopia.

[@YokaiX]

I wonder what a capitalist dystopia looks like… (America’s corporate capitalist to coporatocracy perhaps?)

[@FNLNFNLN]

@@YokaiX South Korea is way worse than the US.

[@richardarriaga6271]

​@@YokaiXA capitalist utopia! Very efficient system

[@zephyr8072]

South Korea is at least one of the few countries that sends people to prison for insider trading. So there’s that.

[@cjlooklin1914]

Because of the unhealthy amount of daily manhwa I read, I've long since had the impression that being a doctor im Korea is incredibly risky and their work/life balance is even worse than the US. Also, that the people are already living under late capitalism, a handful of corporations own the whole country, and life is actually really terrible for most people... Basically America in about 10 years

[@roryokane5907]

I mean, we (junior doctors) are going on strike here in the UK too because we’re grossly underpaid. We’ve been striking on and off for over a year now.

[@classiclife7204]

The one strike I've ever been against. Always an exception to the rule, I guess ...

[@gudboah4688]

Vowsh when his doctor is slightly autistic and doesn’t have time for small talk: “LITERALLY A COP IN A COAT”

[@stewy497]

Shit man, I _wish_ my government would invest in healthcare. The NHS is stretched thin as paper.

[@roryokane5907]

Funnily enough that’s one of the reasons we’re striking. We’re stretched thin because our wages have fallen massively since 2008, far more than the average worker in % terms.

[@brianc5617]

"I know what I'm talking about, I was a healer in World of Warcraft" . That got a harty laugh from me. Vaush's humor might get him in trouble from time to time, but it is also want keeps me coming back to his videos.

[@swagmundfreud666]

Saw the title, knew nothing about the situation, assumed it was based. Watched the video. Not based.

[@nehukybis]

If I got sick in South Korea, I would ask to be airlifted to a modern country. The doctors there tell people they'll die of hypothermia if they leave a fan on while they're asleep.

[@KathyXie]

Of dying for drinking cold drink while having a cold.

[@achicirno8523]

South Korea is very cyberpunk fr fr

[@samiamrg7]

The Korean government isn’t capping the number of med school admissions, the universities handle that. The government is making the public universities increase their med student admissions, and at least one university is increasing the their admissions even beyond the increase that the government is asking for (to account for drop outs perhaps? idk).

[@benjaminmatheny6683]

Vaush completely missed the simple explanation for the difference between a cap and a subsidy limit. A cap is setting a MAXIMUM limit of doctors per year, The subsidy limit is trying to set a MINIMUM limit of residencies they don't want the level to fall under. The difference between the two is really basic.

[@RobotDeathMonkey]

Unfortunately this isn't just South Korea it's everywhere with private medicine, big health professional advocacy groups make sure there is minimal competition at the expense of patients

[@carstenpfundt]

2:16 never seen Korean sign language before that's so cool.

[@sumsarsiranen]

How a person whom hasn't read Marx would have put it: Whereas the aristocracy of old would gain their privilege through owning all land and thereby making it very scarce, the labor aristocracy of nowdays gains their privilege through owning the majority of the pool of expert skills. The total amount of skills is, however, changeable unlike the amount of land (unless you're dutch). The labor aristocracy uses their power, the power of the proletariat, of unionization (doctor's associations) to maintain their privileged position above the proletariat. The limitation of accreditation is designed to be their engine for recreating scarcity where there would be none, if everyone skilled could be accredited and those whom want to become skilled could be taught to be so. Their status and ability to maintain that status would dissolve if the pool of skills were to expand large enough. Artificial scarcity is the enemy of communism, scarcity of skills and knowledge is the enemy of communism.

[@nickfinan6031]

This is mostly junior doctors striking, of all the doctors younger ones are in the most economically precarious position

[@nickfinan6031]

@@PatrikPatrick-zw5wj no

[@TheAmazingDolph]

This is just nimby for healthcare

[@Ougagagoubou]

Something similar has always happened in Finland. Some doctor association has control over how many doctors are trained and they always keep the count too low so they'd have to be paid more.

[@AhoyHoyFrg]

I feel like 3:20 should have been at least acknowledged as a point, but it wasn't brought up once through the video. It is the only decent point that could be made for the strike, although I doubt the striking doctors care of it at all. All the other reasons are bull and just for the current doctors to make sure competition doesn't exist. The 3:20 point made about the medical schools pushing back against the increase citing lack of resources but the dean of schools pushing for the increase anyway seems relevant to the discussion.

[@zephyr8072]

NHS Doctors striking due to overwork and understaffing. Korean Doctors:

[@zaarkeru3391]

Both are equally legit. Edit: scratch that xD

[@arthurhayward122]

I lived in South Korea for 4 years. I don’t know if their system has changed since the 2000s but they did have a government subsidized health care system where you paid the doctor a small amount, I forget how much, but it was like a couple of bucks and the state paid the rest.

[@tilly704]

therapist do lots of extra that is invisible, they are more like teachers on that, also they don’t earn as close to a doctor.

[@Bvic3]

AI art devalue artist privileges as the art aristocracy: It's literally fascism. Doctors do the same: Just greedy people who oppose more good in society. We can see what aristocracy the youtuber is part of!

[@The_Mess85]

Similar issue here in NZ, general practitioners and the hospitals are crying out for more doctors (and pay, because "tax cuts" impacts) and Waikato Uni is wanting to build a new medical school, but the current medical schools have been trying to block the whole time. Because "not enough residency places!11!1!!", despite Te Whatu Ora saying they can handle it.

[@roryokane5907]

That’s a valid concern. If the residency places aren’t guaranteed, no point training extra doctors at medical school.

[@Soren59]

It's almost funny how closely this situation resembles the way Korean doctors are depicted in manhwa. Guess fiction and reality aren't that different

[@haruhisuzumiya6650]

It's always depicted in creative writing and illustration

[@DimaRakesah]

Competition in South Korea is already so insanely high for any job that pays a decent wage, I can kind of see how people would be afraid of adding more competition. The job market in SK, from what I've seen, is on steroids. You have to practically live and breathe whatever job you're going to try to get and you have to be the top of your class, attractive, and have a sparkling resume. The real problem to me is how intensely competitive the labor market is already. It makes any good job become difficult to get into, so the people who do get in become massive gatekeepers.

[@walterk9916]

we need to know the retirement rate for Korean doctors

[@nicholasrolack1017]

Trying to keep the amount of doctors low? Something something, drum island

[@trianglemoebius]

To my understanding (this is talking to people who live in Korea - so not first-hand but from reliable sources) medical school in Korea is the 'default choice' for anyone who can make it in. If someone can go to medical school, all social pressure is on them to go there, which has resulted in a massive over-saturation of medical professionals (healthcare in Korea is already cheap, so this has led to low individual wages), along with an economic 'zero-sum game' between doctors and other jobs. Basically, since all the best and brightest are becoming doctors, limited only by admission space, you have a critical lack of professions like engineers, non-medical scientists, programmers etc. Put these together, and I feel their striking can be understood as a lot less selfish. It isn't just "we want less competition", it's "we're already expendable peons with low wages and this will make it worse, plus it's going to screw over other professions that are already suffering with current admission rates".

[@albertoandrade9807]

Plus there are plans on the book to increase penalties for malpractice so I heard from a couple korean doctors

[@themoops4006]

wait i thought more competition in the "free market" lead to higher wages, was i LIED to?!?!

[@Senumunu]

people dropped watching TV so they can watch TV segments with their favorite streamer online it all comes around

[@haleyspence]

"What about artists?" MY DUDE LET ME TELL YOU WHAT. Actually please no, don't make me. I'm already brain fried but let's not drag the artisans into this hot potato soup.

[@okzoomer5728]

So that's how bad the internalized capitalism has gotten over there. Unsurprisingly the urge to preserve prestige and money are getting in the way of doing a societal good again.

[@doggodoggo3000]

Very America pilled

[@gs9140]

we have a cap as well in France it is called numerus closus that changes every year because med school is Free; you cannot say that they are greedy as they make 3 times less than an American doctor or korean doctors; most of doctors are in favour of increasing the number of doctors but the problem is that once graduated they choose to settle in areas in less need of doctors; the good thing in the French system though is that doctors fees are regulated by the state. I did not like that you said they are greedy it is not the case in all countries in a very capitalist society doctors etc would act like the society they live in. I have a lot of respect for doctors in my country; Ive had a different experience in the UK or the US

[@themightymcb7310]

He's not talking about France, he's talking about South Korea and the USA

[@gs9140]

@@themightymcb7310 I know just adding some other examples that could solve this issue. When people have no debt to study doctors are less likely to act this way but the cap is kinda of common thing in most OECD countries

[@Starghost1999]

Just because you go to medical school doesn't mean you actually become a doctor a lot of people drop out

[@a_kazakis]

That is an argument to reduce the positions in universities, not to increase them.

[@XMysticHerox]

I mean a big part of that is that things are deliberately set up to push people out. Practicals and especially residencies later are expensive for unis so it does make some sense but the elitism that is behind this strike also plays a big role.

[@Starghost1999]

@@a_kazakis universities are a mess. I read that Harvard has more staff than students? I am not an expert in this area but that doesn't sound right to me.

[@aurorasideras2015]

lol, while we don’t have strikes we have the medical associations here that spend millions lobbying for the same position.

[@magnus_cockstrong]

Privatized Healthcare is required by the forces of nature to be a shit show

[@dumbledoratheexplora1140]

It seems that they're offended that younger people will share the same status of them as doctors.

[@renardleblanc5556]

@12:30 ish: I played a holy spec priest, my brother went Prot. Spec warrior... we'd log in after college classes, party up, find 3 pick-ups in LFG to fill the ranks, and go dungeoning. Got to the point we could tag-team dungeons 5 levels above our level... good times. The fun thing about healer is, Mobs get repetitive and predictable, but the incompetence and buffoonery of other players is a constant novelty and risk. Good times. The American medical profession sounds very different from my experience as a Canadian... whenever I have a problem or issue with my care, I usually get to talk it through to my and my doctors satisfaction After my stroke, my neurologist and cardiologist wanted me to stay off ADD meds... after a year or so, we consulted with my GP, my psychologist, and my endocrinologist (diabetic specialist), determined it had gotten to be a quality of life issue, and I ended up going on a moderate dose of a slow release capsule variety of ritalin (specifically; Concerta). Thank goodness for Canadian healthcare.

[@2the431]

they are paid per procedure?!?

[@FatalAlcatraz]

Money being the root of evil again...

[@ChristophTempel]

Are you flipping serious? In most countries doctors are exploited just like regular workers. My wife often works effectively 60 hours per week, up to 24 hours a day, which is f'ed up. Her per hour pay isnt better than that of your typical engineer, but she has the workload of a blue collar worker, moving patients and equipment, always in a hurry to keep the pace up so the hospital makes more money, instead of taking the time to care for patients properly. This assessment of every doctor being an overpaid, lazy asshole makes me really angry. I would have expected better.

[@marthancrowl1674]

Abuse victims can be abusers, it’s as simple as that. In a reactionary fashion, you’re completely dismissing most people’s experiences with the medical industry because of, “Mah wife who makes 8k a month has to work! 😭“, and seemingly ignoring the incentives of exploited workers in a PRIVATISED system. L take.

[@suspiciouspole9171]

Saying limiting residency spots vs medical students is drastically different is not true. It’s just pushing the bottle neck to after med school. Essentially the exact same thing, or worse given you can have graduate med students without jobs.

[@Darkloid21]

I have to say I never knew Vaush has such bad takes on doctors. My aunt is a neurologist and the working hours part is definitely true. She’s pretty much always busy that it’s hard to see her at times. When I helped her in her office at times I could also get a word in during the few moments between patients and paperwork.

[@FallenDaffodil]

Eh. I'm a med student and I get what he's getting at . I think the "cops in lab coats" take is a bit weird , but I find that older practicioners can be quite stubborn and unwilling to listen to patients. Even amongst my peers, I've heard a lot of anti-patient sentiment. It's really unfortunate how many of these people will go on to be future doctors.

[@dracocrusher]

South Korea is fucked. Of course, North Korea's fucked as a dictatorship, but South Korea doubled down hard on heiarchy and respecting people in perceived higher social classes. This obviously leads to misogyny, lots of ageism, mistakes from higher ups just not knowing what they're doing, tons of stuff like that. It's pretty bad. This entire 'doctor' thing is literally just "The old guard has seniority and you shouldn't get in their way", but it's all an unspoken rule type of thing so when you shove that on the public a lot of people fight against it because it's obviously bullshit.

[@thaenaa]

South korean social order strikes again (if only it was good strikes)

[@Gyro_Pretzeli]

"Kulaks would never burn the wheat..." etc. etc. LMFAO

[@hebbycakes]

This is really upsetting, but not surprising to hear. I greatly appreciated the doctors I went to while I lived in South Korea, and really really hope they're not joining in on this garbage.

[@jhonshephard921]

the aristocracy thing falls apart when you look at computer science where many people openly publish courses and write blogs and other stuff, both paid and for free, to train other computer science professionals. Of course some of it is to bolster their own standing.

[@TealJosh]

Nothing you said makes it non-labour aristocratic. Access to information and such has zero impact on it.

[@NeoRipshaft]

5:05 rofl it looks like she's about to tell me about the Doomslayer

[@calexico66]

Given that after the Asian currency crisis of the 1990s South Korea completely liberalized their labour markets Medical Doctors has been the only profession that has a steady secure middle class income. All the other jobs are insecure, require long hours and are underpaid, so... Do you think they will allow their profession to become like all others?

[@eeneranna9795]

Doctor

[@YokaiX]

Docta

[@gabeitch3919]

My mom is a nurse and has dealt with a lot of giant ego doctors his vibe opinion on doctors is definetely correct

[@aileenonvenus]

Something I didn’t see Vaush address was the complaints being from junior doctors, or ones fresh out of residency that get lower than average pay and have more work expectations since they don’t have experience. Adding more med students won’t fix it, but the private practitioners that are resigning can go fuck themselves, i see less of a reason for them besides competition

[@greensnake6943]

It is not that simple. Training doctors needs Infrastructure. You cannot just increase the number of incoming students. Medical students don't just sit in class. Med students do rounds and visit patients. Can you imagine 40 students jammed into one room just to see one patient. Their learning outcome would not be good.

[@stardust3176]

Status is a hell of a drug damn

[@YokaiX]

The social class at the top of any hierarchy are addicts from

[@ksmith4135]

This is a global phenomenon. Keep an eye on the American Medical Association. They lobby to limit the number of doctors in the US (restricting/controlling availability of residencies which are the gateway to the profession, making it incredibly arduous for doctors from other countries to immigrate and get licensed to practice here, etc.), and they lobby to prevent other medical professionals like nurse practitioners from being able to work independently for simpler tasks (doing things like managing long-term prescriptions that probably don't really need constant full-fledged doctor's visits). It's one among many factors contributing to high US healthcare costs.

[@PhilfreezeCH]

I don‘t think I have ever heard of doctors walking out to strike. The striking I am used to involves them just not doing any bookkeeping anymore meaning its not possible to charge patients properly anymore.

[@roryokane5907]

We’re doing it right now in the U.K!

[@julianbell9161]

Chat has a weirdly benevolent view of doctors. Like, they are imagining that everyone who becomes a doctor does it because they love it or really want to help because why else would you put up with medical school and bad patients? Because you make a lot of money and it’s an incredibly socially prestigious job. Most people who want to be doctors aren’t passionate about it and do it because it’s a high paying job or because their parents pressured them into doing it. This is why they would be opposed to being more doctors because it makes it less socially prestigious and they really care about that more than they care about helping their fellow man.

[@hunterreed448]

To increase medical school from 3500 to 5500 in a year is a huge increase to their medical education system

[@jaska-jalmarixvi5757]

Doctors have insane amount of power

[@adammiller9029]

6:40 plastic surgery is extremely popular in south korea due to cultural reasons which hold certain features in extremely high regard. Its extremely common for people in south korea to get plastic surgery. Its a pretty serious problem in that country.

[@ryanhoffman5048]

Just a small point vaush said therapist is a kind of doctor. A psychiatrist is a physician but a psychologist is a non physician PhD. working therapist are usually some kind of social worker. Social workers are absolutly not labor aristocracy

[@kelf30]

In the US, spots for medical school admissions are determined by the number of residency slots

[@jkattack2640]

The only legitimate reason not to increase a cap like that would be an issue of lack of professors available to teach, which of course can be fixed by uh, hiring more professors and building more schools?

[@AutMouseLabs]

"Therapists are a type of doctor" - lol. I am a therapist. We make 1/4 what a doctor makes (agency work vs hospital work). We have no real power over our client base and professionally no one listens to therapists. Whereas, doctors are wildly respected. Most agency therapists make less than RNs despite having more education. I chose my profession and I believe in it. To equivocate therapists and doctors though is laughable. I do love the term labor aristrocracy though. I always learn something on these streams.

[@KaiPerz]

I've been in and out of psychwards since I was 9 and I can say doctors have treated me like shit and made me feel less then human. along with loading me up with high dose anti psychotics at 16 they told me my BPD was "untreatable" with therapy which is very very wrong. Y'all tend to be 10000% better then any doctor I've ever met sucks how y'all are treated.

[@markmikolay9019]

This has the same energy as taxi drivers striking to make uber illegal

[@TealJosh]

What? Uber should be illegal. Gig economy should be illegal.

[@hendrix24]

Turns out Do a lot of harm actually

[@SNESMike]

The AMA does the same thing in the US. It caps # of medical students.

[@roryokane5907]

You have to at least ensure there are enough residency/postgraduate training places to take the new doctors though, or you’ll end up with a load of unemployed medical graduates with shedloads of debt!

[@CaptinSober]

Always hated SK, here's another reason

[@BlizzardofOze]

I'm guessing they don't take the hippocratic oath in SK?

[@Jonas-qg6jw]

Germany also has a medical school admission cap. Its because the ressource itself is limited. One medical student costs the German state around 200000 dollar so there can’t be infinite students.

[@jaska-jalmarixvi5757]

In Finland government also pays for their education and yep, it isn't cheap. But doctors union is also lobbying against increasing amounts of students intake. Now government has to pay through private medical companies hundreds of thousands of euros just to fill a single positions on rural areas. It's insane

[@Jonas-qg6jw]

@@jaska-jalmarixvi5757 yeah that’s certainly bad. Interesting how the problem of rural doctor shortage seems to be everywhere. Here in Germany they try to incentivize future students to become doctors in rural areas by making admission easier if you commit to working there for like 20 years. Wasn’t an option for me because I will not commit to anything for 20 years lol. I don’t think these programs will be enough to meaningfully address the problem.

[@rokhamler3352]

There are caps everywhere because there are limited numbers of skilled medical docoor educators & other staff, limited educational/training facilites and of course limited funding

[@asherroodcreel640]

Watch the video

[@Primordial_Synapse]

In the province of Alberta, they're hoping to address the shortage of family physicians by allowing nurse practitioners to open their own clinics. It hasn't been formalized yet but it could represent a step in the right direction(?).

[@Langtw]

16:04 Bruh. Do the math. The upper limit of compensation there is roughly $65,000 USD.

[@suekennedy1595]

I think the many many plastic surgeons that are in South Korea are not medically needed,more doctors in actual helping fields not the double eyelids production line.

[@TypausZuendorf]

Yeah turns out that Privatized Healthcare is horrible idea

[@burkles4456]

I’ve had a hundred Asian people make cheap/greedy jokes about themselves to me that I do not trust these doctors. Smells fishy.