Insane Path of Exile 2 War: "Consoles Will Ruin EVERYTHING"

[@tabs1913]

PC only player here. I see consoles bringing a bit of good to PoE and not only massive amounts of cash to GGG. Things like requiring us to be concert pianists while grinding content should slowly make way toward a bit more automation in builds, or at least a slower pace of required inputs. RSI is a very real problem. When PoE1 went to consoles there were very doom heavy discussions including the dramatic exit of a well known community member. It all turned out completely fine.

[@FartSmucker]

The console thing didn't matter because its a PC game first. PoE 2 however is being designed from the ground up with MORE controller support in mind than keyboard and mouse, hence the issue people have. Boss fights and skills with no doubt favor controller use and thats not short of bullshit

[@John-v7x5v]

Except that console play is s joke. I have played both. PC's are in general have much better specs. If you think lag on PC gets bad, on console it is infuriating. Also, controllers suck so bad(targetting, movement skills ect.) and there are no ways to fix it. According to GGG. You are right about one thing, it is another money grab, just like it's launch on console.

[@silureswarrior6045]

​@user-fp5ks4md9y no idea how or why you are lagging, I get none on console and certainly none on pc Your trying to argue a non issue, fairly certain I could load it up on an old i5/1050ti laptop I have hanging round and play with no issue there

[@waylandwalace3302]

@@silureswarrior6045 doing blight with increased mobs on max graphics will bring frames down to a crawl if you cant instant kill everything as it spawns which unless your using streamer gear isnt doable, its completely reasonable to suspect mob count to drop and HP numbers to increase to compensate for consoles lower preformance, and we all know GGG loves adding 0s to the end of HP numbers and call it "balancing"

[@silureswarrior6045]

​@@waylandwalace3302I've never had any issue with blight or any other content on either, is this a recent issue? I've missed a couple leagues

[@krpp]

On patching, PoE is heavily server authoritative, and most things that affect the economy, gameplay balance etc can be tuned with server updates, so I don't think it's as big an issue as people make it out to be.

[@scoliosisking6143]

Given how trigger-happy GGG has been hotfixing exploits in the necropolis league more quickly than the community would like, if anything console pipeline delays may be a good thing 😅

[@andrewmccune2895]

@@scoliosisking6143 lmao no, its called an exploit for a reason.....

[@roccoheat8662]

Poe1 has been on console for a long time now as a nearly identical game to its PC version. I don't see how POE2 will be any different than just allowing the people to play together. Heck POE1 could go crossplay right now and nothing changes besides more people for the economy.

[@dustinshilala4802]

This. All this complaining is PC Elitism. That’s it.

[@tabs1913]

@@dustinshilala4802 I don't think it's even that to be honest. While there is valid constructive discussion to be had the outraged people are simply internet Karens looking for their next fix. Gamers will mock the stereotypical middle aged woman shouting at a cashier then do the same thing online to game companies. Completely lacking self awareness they just feel momentary catharsis in venting their angry babble.

[@murray821]

@@dustinshilala4802gatekeepers

[@TheMusicolophile]

PC players have always had the edge with PoE. I’m hoping with cross play, it levels the playing field.

[@johnkim6153]

Clueless

[@andrewbako9494]

11-year POE player PC only. I'm just going to trust the process and the vision that Jonathan and GGG have for POE2. I do find the potential delayed patching to be concerning and hope that Jonathan has an answer for this. One of my brothers has played with me since the beginning the other has never played and only owns a PS5 hoping this will allow us to all finally play together.

[@Jsizzlet]

Delayed server patches isn't really a bad thing in my opinion as long as it's some game breaking bug. Heck, one of the many reasons necropolis is hated is due to the FOMO of all the exploits people found that got immediately patched out so of anything I think more people would enjoy being able to explore exploits more.

[@DapperDinoCodingTutorials]

For a lot of/most exploit related issues, they can usually be fixed server-side meaning no need to pushing anything to clients via Sony/Microsoft. Assuming the issues are related to drop rates/tuning.

[@Scorptice]

It's just normal gatekeeping, it's everywhere. Like Genwunners in Pokemon or Elitists in Monster Hunter before world released and was a global success.

[@Darkasasin80]

I've played almost every League since PoE launched on console and for the most part I've loved it. However the reliance this game has on 3rd party tools/sources is ridiculous and a major sore point for me. I'm very excited to try out PoE 2 but I really do hope they integrate many of these tools into the game official if anything at least to have a tolerable experience on console.

[@Purrrjury]

Exactly. I don't want to need 40 tabs open to understand this game.

[@StechGamer]

Regarding the patch pipelines, if it's a server-side issue then it can be fixed without having to go through the patch pipeline 😃

[@honordevs]

I guess the biggest argument I have is feature and gameplay creep. Let me explain... From the perspective of someone who runs game servers from their house for communities, it's very easy for a game admin to tweak settings and make things easier. Want new players to start with a buff? What about double-experience because people complain it takes too long to level? Maybe loot rarity increases? It's just one number away, to a server admin. I see this relating to game development as well. There is a very grey line between: is giving double experience taking away from the "tedium" or is it taking away from core gameplay (enjoy the journey, not the destination, argument). Relating to Path of Exile--The things like RMB to equip, smart-loot, smart-skills that auto-target, auction house, etc. feel like they might do the same thing, which is cross that blurred line between "journey to automation" and "automation as a feature". I don't want Path of Exile to be a game that feels like Diablo 4--a controller limited UI, gameplay, and skill system, that (primarily my concern) bends to the console audience on QoL fixes. I need to make sure that, even if Console is making GGG more money, they will stand behind their PC audience (and from a business perspective, they most-likely will not). I am not talking about release here, I am talking about gameplay-creep. THAT is my concern.

[@albeon81]

Only play on ps5 as I don’t have the time or effort to get into pc gaming. I’m glad they are designing poe2 for console from the jump.

[@Vampire7979]

PlayStation user here just wanna to say I've been waiting for a new POE because I don't know how to play the first one and the new one will teach me.. So thank you for making a console easier one for players like me ❤also don't have money for a PC and console.

[@funnyprophet6220]

45 million PS5 + 25m xbox sold is surely compatible out of the box to play poe2 . For pc player... How many need an upgrade just to play poe2?? Just dont underestimate those console player

[@Lawrdenafil]

When I pitch PoE to my friends who play on console and the absence of cross play turns them down immediately. Huge PoE2 W

[@n91312]

Also console players have been paying the same prices for supporter packs for years just to get a heavily inferior game experience. Crossplay is something GGG owes to the people and is literally non negotiable at this point.

[@sylverxyz]

Couldn’t agree more with your last point here Tri! More players coming to the game is more money to fuel the games development into the stratosphere for the many years of leagues and expansions to come. I hear the concerns but am so glad you’ve done a good job of putting most of them to bed

[@RamzaBehoulve]

We have these kind of idiots with every crossplay games. I never noticed if people were playing FFXIV on console or PC. People generally don't speak much in easy dungeons/raids nowadays

[@VinjiOfTheDeep]

I love playing on console. And as an example only, D4 runs so much better on my PS5 than my laptop. It looks absolutely beautiful playing on my LG OLED C2 65”. I can’t wait to play POE2 on console!

[@drillspin1]

Console player here, been playing PoE for roughly a year now (since the tail end of crucible) and one thing i can say for sure is that crossplay will be a MASSIVE gain for us, specifically in the trade leagues. Compared to PC, prices on console are usually much higher, due to the small population leading to less supply, especially for higher end items like high tier uniques and endgame crafting items. The low supply also leads to pricefixing being a major issue on consoles, with high end individuals buying up most/all of a single item and listing them at a very low price so that players who obtain said item and don't check TM thru the website will think their price is just the current going rate and list it for the same price, which the pricefixer can easily just buy up again. While these issues likely won't be fix in PoE 1 it's nice to know they'll be at least indirectly addressed in PoE 2 with crossplay and other features.

[@littlezimty]

"People working on console content instead of PC content" - do these people not realize that this additional manpower was only brought on BECAUSE ggg need more help for consoles, and that the extra manpower wouldn't exist without the need that console support created?

[@TalkativeTri]

It is indeed shocking how few people understand this.

[@hamzaboughraira4455]

PoE has been on console for years now I don't know why u people are yapping so much, oh and it plays better on console

[@Triggermappy]

Some people just think they’re “special” because they have a PC but in reality, no one really cares 😂

[@MrNikkoduke]

THANK YOU!

[@TheMicheilsGrey]

Pc replace with any console, nothing changes. And consoles has exe's, not PC. So who is special?

[@jansix4287]

My purse cares. 💰

[@Katze822228]

I guess they are confident that they can fix most exploits server side and I'm sure they'll be able to do some balancing patches server side aswell. But patches being delayed was my first worry aswell when I heard that poe 2 will be 100% crossplay. But the argument that poe 2 may have a lower graphical ceiling because of consoles is unlikely to be a problem I think. PC is still their main target audience so if they need to make the game run better on consoles they will give us graphics options. If anything GGG having to develop for lower end systems like consoles is a good thing because it means that they have to take optimizing the game more seriously and we PC players will get higher FPS. And besides that most people don't play poe 1 on the highest graphic settings anyways because it makes the game run worse. Even many content creators with the best PCs money can buy often don't max out the settings. It just decreases visual clarity, reduces FPS and doesn't make the game look that much better.

[@KlausL1981]

When D4 has introduced alot more people to the ARPG scene (and I would guess vast majority is playing on console), these players might want more challenging and (hopefully) deeper content later, having great console support on POE2 will be a big help on increasing player numbers for POE2. I'm a console only player and I've played my fair share of POE1 as well but who ever has tried POE1 on a controller can relate to the difficulty when you are browsing through different menu screens for different league content and you feel like you are executing a street fighter combo.

[@operatus695]

CONSOLE= casual players how many good games go down like this? they will make game in the way most poeples play it 80% of peoples are casual player

[@voodoo1069]

As long as design isn't made with console in mind and it is figured out after the fact I don't care but if any design is made lamer because it wouldn't work other wise for console then I'd personally have a problem with them being linked. Do agree tho patching for consoles is horrible and would really hinder the game as we are basically playing ptr the first 2 weeks of a league if not longer.

[@antonego9581]

i mean i play POE on PC with a controller. it works fine, i actually think its superior in a lot of ways. trading and stash management is slow but whatever. its fine. so i dont see why anything would need to be "dumbed down."

[@xXVintersorgXx]

It's a double edge sword. My main worry is they will be locked into releases that will run on the lowest console they release on. So when pc makes a major jump forward or ps5 becomes a legacy console with ps6 or whatever, they'll either have to drop consoles or keep the game locked to run on those legacy devices. This is what happened with FFXI being locked to continue running on ps2 when pc far surpassed it. Assuming poe2 runs as long as poe1 has they'll need to address this

[@lavq7000]

Yeah It kind of has already happened with PoE1 in consoles. I don't have a PS4 but from the comments from people that play there , PoE1 is kind of impossible to play in the high end endgame with that hardware.

[@xXVintersorgXx]

@@lavq7000 poe1 was released at the tail end of ps3/PS4 launch. Imagine trying to run the current iteration of Poe1 on a PS3. Imagine how many things would simply not work or things they would not have added given the tech. I think I started playing Poe on a Nvidia 620? Imagine being locked to that level of tech

[@lavq7000]

@@xXVintersorgXx yeah I understand. also it is kind of obvious that GGG has not stopped pushing the "modernity" of PoE1 even with the restrictions with the PS3/4 . While there has been some optimization, leagues like Affliction certainly put a strain on older hardware. So it is clear to me that GGG won't limit themselves due to consoles. Unless they somehow become more popular than the PC version lol It is more an issue of what they should do once the consoles cant keep up in ~5 years

[@xXVintersorgXx]

@@lavq7000 one can hope. It's really the only worry I have about cross play though. Other than the reliance on 3rd party/out of game tools for character building and trading etc. it might actually kill the console joy everyone is having

[@Shackled_Hollow]

Poe 1 ran fine on my ps5. So I'm sure in the years to come Poe 2 will run fine on a ps6. Console players may just need to upgrade their hardware, just like PC players would.

[@jansix4287]

Consoles Will Run EVERYTHING.

[@TheSimonm3]

The thing I want the most for controller support in POE2 is been able to still use the mouse for menu like passives and inventory. In POE1, I roll a tab full of maps and load my controller to run them, mashing the A button instead of clicking loot is more comfortable. I can also lean back on my chair

[@Detlevboi]

I trust GGG fully. They have proven themselves to be incredible developers.

[@impact6126]

the skill design really is a non-issue to begin with if the devs are aware of the fact that theres gonna be different skills that are prefered on controller anyways

[@locmorningstar2740]

What kind of skill that prefered controler ?

[@GorgeousFortress]

Great video. You've been seriously stepping up your content

[@TalkativeTri]

Thank you! I'm trying some new styles and I appreciate people are enjoying them :)

[@GorgeousFortress]

@@TalkativeTri keep it up, excited to see some coverage for 3.25 a few months down the road.

[@the_gengar_master]

Great video. Those fears have real merit, but to be able bring more people to this franchise It's worth it.

[@FitnessWithAnIllness]

I'm a console player and only just started playing POE for the first time about a year and half ago and have been loving it! I assumed that POE 2 wasn't going to come to console at launch and when I heard that it was coming to console I was so excited. I figured that the console release would come much later. I'm so glad that I was wrong.

[@Arxius84]

Ah come on, we are all players... Does it matter what machine we use for playing? Lets enjoy PoE all together

[@scottcampbell9456]

On console for PoE updates and patches run at the same time as PC. When D4 released the season 4 update, every pc user had to wait for it download, on XBox mine was already done when I got home from work, no downtime. It's a storm in a d-cup

[@Big-Garza]

The other day, you put out a video about how positive the console reveal has been getting received (gotta love that optimism) and my first thought was "just wait, pc players never sleep when it comes to complaining about sharing with console." And here we are. I would argue that even the "valid" points here are sort of non-issues, seeing the perspective of both sides of the argument (I'm a console player mostly as most of my friends are there, but I have a fairly beefy pc I built...it's likely closer to midrange now as it's been a few years without upgrades, but 🤷‍♂) Patch pipelines are whined about almost every time a previously PC-only series comes to console and has a shared ecosystem, but it almost always falls by the wayside upon release excluding the most devout PC-master-race chads who whine "this woulda been way faster if it weren't on console", as if they're a dev and know this for sure. Most people don't mind the extra wait, which is usually like a day or two (worst I've ever seen is week longer waits between patches compared to previous entries in the series/when it was PC only.) This is especially true as a lot of things can just be fixed server-side on an online game like PoE. Graphical ceiling is, imo, a joke as well. When I built my PC I did so for productivity first (I was really into 3D modeling at the time.) I'm really glad that productivity was the reason for the build as if it were primarily for gaming, after all the "pc GrapHicS ArE almoST a wHOlE GEneRaTioN ahEAd." and similar statements from pc-only friends, I would've felt ripped off due to cost vs results. Most differences are marginal unless you mod the game to infinity and back. Prime example in current generation - the only games I would say look a "whole generation ahead" on PC are the UE ones that utilize photogrammetry and those are usually mediocre walking sims, and specifically a handful of recent games after very heavy modding such as Cyberpunk 2077.

[@eepopgames2741]

One thing I noticed in D4 was that console players hate text chat, which can make some features of the game feel very dissonant when a large number of players you might interact with are non responsive. That doesn't have to be a deal breaker and can be worked around with good systems, but it will be something I keep in mind when we get details on other game features. Trade for example, as PoE 1 trade is very text chat dependent and can be frustrating enough with non responsiveness.

[@slot2]

I was primarily concerned with 2 issues. First, some skills on controller just don't function as well as on kbm, like teleports for instance. A mouse is much more precise in terms of targeting, whereas control sticks can only approximate it. Second, as others have mentioned, PoE2 will have to maintain feature parity between series x and the weaker series s as stipulated in the Microsoft clause. This can lead to unforseen technical hurdles, and even resource issues. I certainly hope at least the latter of my concerns is allayed.

[@isseyphresh82]

I own both A PC and a Series X ... Play with controller on both... Plan on playing Poe 2 on both. Love this feature. The bigger the community the better in my opinion. Plus, the fact that I can use the Xbox party system and the looking for group feature to form parties for 6 player co-op will be a God send!

[@scoliosisking6143]

How is it true or valid that GGG having a console team means less content for PC? The size of a team developing a videogame is predicated, like any organisation, on the foreseeable realisable revenue of the products they're working on. These staff members wouldn't exist if the game wasn't coming to console. If anything I'd wager that the revenue GGG will generate from the console ports will more than exceed the costs associated with their console team. I mean even if not, GGG have been happily raking in MTX money from console players since 2018 despite having no dedicated headcount making the experience remotely tolerable for those players, so it's about time.

[@Kafka-Youtube]

poe 1 is already a cluster fuck that has fps crashing hard in PC, they better do a very good work in optimization early on to have a very robust base to work

[@bluemoondm8629]

The only real problem I can foresee is because there is cross play and cross progression, which means patches will have to be published onto both PC and console at the same time, and infamously consoles often require a lengthy patch validation by Sony and Microsoft, which could mean some delays in patches coming to PC as a result.

[@Zhoutgamer]

GGG: We are redesigning every skill and enemy to make wasd movement feel better, this has no downside except we are delaying the game by a year trust us. also GGG: We just tell our console department to make it happen and it does, trust us. The amount of feature creep going on with this game is such a hassle, we could have the game out by now probably. Now we will probably see another delay when the console department isn't ready for launch all because GGG wants the game to be up to Blizzard standard. This is only a financial push to make some more money. This adds nothing to the core gameplay and in the worst case actually will be a detriment. This is just GGG adding more work for themselves hoping they get some more players but if we are being honest the 14 year old Fifa/CoD players arent going to pick up PoE and buy microtransactions on their parents credit card. I know you really want to trust GGG with this but if your counter argument is just "trust me" then you are only trying to hype up the game that will lead to expectations for the game being set to high and ultimatly hurts the release.

[@kez882]

They already have poe1 on console with thousands of players, I'm sure it'll be fine

[@Oakenritual]

I'm all for more people being able to play as long as consoles don't interfere with the PC version at all. That being said this might be the reason the beta was delayed until the end of the year so if that's the case, feels bad.

[@sylvainh2o]

I happy and hyped that the game would be a bit less complex and cross play cross progression and coop. Now I can play with friends who are only on console. Makes more people to play and trade with.

[@danieldondo2818]

My opinion on the graphics for console I personally think if a game with as much graphic screen clutter as COD, overwatch, or halo series runs smoothly on console then I’m sure they can handle it, if anything the lower end PCs that can run path of exile 1 with needing to significantly lower the resolution and leave sounds muted to optimize for clarity and stop sound crashes it will probably end up getting developed to class out those weaker PCs in the long run to operate on consoles smoothly

[@S3frog]

If GGG has to be mindful of performance due to consoles, all the better. I play PoE on a somewhat old computer, and I want the performance floor to be low enough for me to still be able to play long term. Do note, I mean the floor, not the ceiling. People with high-end PCs should be able to adjust the settings and reach much better quality than with consoles. But the floor should remain consistent so that people like me are not left out of a league if GGG fumbles with graphics settings. Console compliance will probably force that, which is a net positive in my book.

[@knaz7468]

Wait, there is an official PoE Discord? I don't think so right? Good point on patching. That is indeed valid. Skill design doesn't worry me, however I am pretty sure PoE1 has a dedicated group of console experts because the tech is different enough and not everyone has that expertise. Having a console graphics ceiling is fine by me but only because my PC is not better than a PS5!

[@Takaoshi]

Think jonathan already mentioned in an interview that most updates to poe after a league launch happens servers side so i don't think updates will be a big issue. There is very little in poe that is client side

[@leederlee]

To the graphics statement - current gen consoles are as strong as the avarage pc ppl play Poe on - most ppl don’t have a high end pc and no developer ever designed a game for high end pcs. No rest for the wicked did that - and you see on steam what happened… most likely there will be ultra settings for pc players for those who can use that and the console game will run on the high or mid setting by default…

[@infinitenex8165]

I was looking forward to no rest for the wicked but the minimum pc requirements are astronomical. They shut the door to a lot of potential cash by locking their game to only 2-3 year old PCs. Most people have mid specs.

[@edwardweaver6869]

Issue 4 is actually not a problem. As someone who plays TFD on both console and PC, the absolute highest end TFD can reach is better on PC. With graphical selection modes which alter settings to give more performance or higher graphical fidelity; it’s totally reasonable to assume PC will be the benchmark and consoles will receive their own specialized settings to maximize performance. If they need to update the engine we’re probably moving console generations so they can just say “We’re ending X Gen support” and call it a day.

[@laradombrowski2012]

The update criticism is a non issue, it's already resolved. If you have the stream version of Poe, if the update didn't arrive for you, you can't play simple as that. This is what's going to happen with consoles too, they have to wait for the update to play meanwhile the official client in pc can play instantly.

[@fvzi4861]

Eventually everyone will see the vision

[@ZanaGhost]

"As usual, the video is top-notch!"❤

[@jeffhess8241]

Played poe1 on console and it was just fine. It’s good for the game cause there’s more exposure. Especially for a company everyone wants to see expand and grow and be the top dog of the genre, releasing on console is the smartest move and they’d be limiting themselves. Exploits come and go with every game and they’re fixed. Things will get smoothened out before their league launch and it will be old news.

[@Arccanos]

Aside from hacking devices and other issues with Sony/Microsoft, they're going to have to nail performance in order for it to be stable on consoles. As someone who has pretty much always had the best hardware available, I can attest to GGG's failure to ever achieve that. Maybe this will help.

[@TheMusicolophile]

PC players have always held a distinct advantage in PoE. Hoping cross play levels the playing field. Edit: Also, Tri here, does show a tremendous lack of knowledge regarding current console capabilities.

[@aaronhumphrey3514]

PoE 1 has been on consoles for a long time. Did people really think GGG wasn't going to stay in the console market with the sequel?

[@FitnessWithAnIllness]

Also another positve. I have actually played POE on xbox cloud gaming. Not perfect but I can take POE anywhere which is great! Will be the same thing for POE2 which will be great!

[@Tyr808]

This will be a predominantly symbiotic relationship imo, and for what it’s worth, I don’t own consoles and won’t use couch co-op probably anyway. I will probably play online co-op with a few console people though, and I definitely don’t mind better controller support and WASD/left analog stick movement.

[@murray821]

Considering the graphics, POE was never about the highest graphical fidelity. Also I bet there are much more pc players playing on a pc that is even less powerful as the PS5 or the series X. Not everyone has a high end Starforge PC. And if you look at D4 and how it looks and runs on consoles, that is more than enough for games like this. Regarding the controller and limited functionality, well if I look at let’s say a World of Warcraft hud, I wouldn’t even want so many buttons to use. Making a build work around 6 or so skills should be enough if you also consider passives and automatic effects. There is absolutely no reason to have a full accordion 🪗 of buttons required to play a game. I was a D2 D3 PC player, when I heard D3 came to consoles I scoffed it. I was ignorant because once I tried D3 on PS4 with controller I was sold. It plays so good. I wouldn’t even want to play an action rpg with mouse anymore. I remember the cold stiff shoulder in D2 click click click click click click

[@flaxenwall9840]

Controllers ruined call to arms for melee enjoyers.

[@majorshepard2]

No. The devs ruined it. They could have made a solo slot for instant casts when you use your left stick. They decided against it. Console players wanted an equivalent to cast while running, not it being removed. It was their decision, it was the easiest thing for them to do, but it was not something that the console playerbase wanted. The new support gems are shit so they also deleted warcries for melee skills on autocast for us too, but we don't feel it because it was never an option. They decided to make it worse, it has nothing to do with console, they said numerous times they are against it and balanced skills around use while walking, every cd increase in cries and even skills like vortex was because of it.

[@flaxenwall9840]

@@majorshepard2 the change was made for controller players. its that simple. if controller play didnt exist we would still have cta and left click skills.

[@majorshepard2]

@@flaxenwall9840 but that's not a problem of console. The devs made the decision to remove it. Don't blame a platform for the devs mistakes. I get what you are saying but the angle at what you are taking it is wrong. It's not the consoles fault the devs made the worst possible decision

[@flaxenwall9840]

@@majorshepard2 it is simply a decision that would never have come to light if they weren't catering to controller/console players. its a non issue for pc. It doesn't matter how they implemented it, it was a perceived problem because of controller/console.

[@majorshepard2]

@@flaxenwall9840 so your problem is with controller support, not console. I want m&k since 5 years and they never implemented it, despite saying they do it 2 years ago. What platform are they really caring about? You think what you want, but the real problem is not that they try to make a certain input device better, it's how they do it. And they even made it worse for everyone. They just failed like many things this season. Not an input device problem in my opinion

[@GavrynGaming]

Killing it with the content lately man I love it!

[@yurei8368]

On the "Lower Graphical Ceiling" issue: it's valid, but not AS valid as many people think. Folks assume that consoles are all total dogshit compared to a five thousand dollar high-end gaming PC, but the devs don't make the game for people with multi-grand Giga Rigs. They make the game for people running a seven hundred dollar Best Buy storebought because that's what the overwhelming majority of players are using, not the Giga Rigs. Consoles are weaker than Giga Rigs, but they're at least on par with Average PCs if not superior in some ways because they're ruthlessly optimized to do one single thing - run video games. Yeah, if you're a Giga Rigger who demands 40k fidelity from your game at 360FPS on Nostradamus graphical settings, the console launch's requirements have a chance of impacting you - but you're also such a small percentage of the total playerbase that giving up millions of potential console players for the two or three thousand Giga Riggers was simply never in the cards to begin with.

[@jamesstewart8663]

PC player here who is tired of the garbage dog crap menus, UIs, simplified systems, and other things that are all done so console players can better interact with the Game. Don't tell me you have not experienced a 'console' game on PC with a terrible UI or menu systems, if you do then you are either not paying attention or are lying. We have become more and more inundated with these terrible UIs because of games being playable on console too. Not to say there aren't terrible PC only menus but they are far far far rarer. This was not a major issue prior to crossplay, and only affected game ports. We have spent nearly a century perfecting the best HID in the world, the mouse and keyboard, and of course to make things usable for a controller you must make it more simple. You would not use a controller to navigate your desktop on your pc, and there are real reasons why. I should state here I also dislike controllers being used period for PC games in general, for the same exact reasons. If you need an example look at any FPS that is not PC exclusive, and look at those terrible menus, looking at your COD, Battlefield, Overwatch... etc. I also have a huge DOUBT about that dev's response about skills not at all being tailored to console control limitations. We have time and time again, seen that this is a real issue for every other rpg game out there that's been developed for both, so magically its not for POE? Ya big doubt. My huge excitement for this game, regardless of whether you think it is justified or not, went from 10/10 to a 8.5/9/10 as a result of this announcement. And it is entirely because I have been constantly burnt by this exact thing. THE ONLY boon I see is the very last thing you mentioned, more money, means possibly more development and content for the game I am playing.

[@NoName-mi8js]

Yeah, this is a real problem. One of my main problems with Xcom and Diablo 4. And a shit ton of JRPGs.

[@turbobanana]

At the worst it’s going to be a net neutral. GGG won’t dumb the game down for consoles like some devs might, they’ll probably just streamline the UI/controls.

[@ThosGamingMedia]

I play all the current main RPG’s both on console and PC and I see no problem with any of this. Yes, PC will always have better graphics but for example with Diablo IV, I would say it runs just as good. In fact there’s many things on console that does better than the pc. Couch Co Op for one. Also the patches have always gone out at the same time from what I’ve seen. I also like to use both controller and keyboard depending on my mood and the transition between the two is seamless unlike PoE 1. I’m hoping POE2 is more seamless where you don’t have to go into the options to enable it. I am highly looking forward to PoE2 I love the atmosphere and art style. The only other game I’m looking forward to right now is Eldan Ring DLC and If that developer ever made an ARPG eldan ring style, I would be the happiest man alive.

[@ZVnow]

It has nothing to do with "pc vs consoles". POE, imo is a pretty niche game, its just recently (3-4-5) years now its gained traction and alot of people "online/internets" who hears about it based on growing popularity "tries it out" because it is now "popular". Theyre the same people who 10yrs ago, would ask an ARPG gamer "whats the point of this game 0_o?". The problem is the fact that console gamers tend to be seen as casual players because console is in fact alottt slower (crafting, inventory management, etc). POE2 is catering to these console player, which in turn, **MIGHT** make the game alot "easier", "casual". Its that simple as to why people might be concerned. Now Talkative tri makes a good point that the game is developed for PC first and they'll find someway to get it to feel good on controller. All i can hope for is that they keep the complexity and faster pace true at "endgame". All of what we have seen of poe2 has been only during the "campaign" and their vision, as far as making it more simple and this stupid "soul-like" concept, is FINE "during" the campaign. I want to have to extreme farm then steamroll the endgame provided i have a good "complex and min-maxed" build. And hopefully not with a build i can build in one day because i "changed some skills around", minimal farming, and followed a "popular" youtuber COUGH* (D4 & Last EPOCH).

[@snaker9er]

I haven't seen anything from poe2 that I think are negative changes but I will say that I've never seen a game cater to consoles that benefited pc players. Whether or not the changes made will affect pc players remains to be seen

[@바보Queen]

proof PoE is one of the most elitest gamers out there, if PoE2 isn't casual friendly i wouldn't even consider playing it

[@waylandwalace3302]

Crossplay causes problems. We all know it does. Anything that adds complexity to a system WILL cause issues. The more moving parts something has the more points of failure it will have. The question isn't IF console crossplay will cause problems its when and when it happens what will the results be.

[@jamesstewart8663]

Menus, terrible crappy menus and UI everywhere so console and controller players can more easily navigate them... We see it all the time, we saw it in D3, and D4, we will now see it in POE 2.

[@Allhavengames]

I agree 100% they wont say that though because they want to be invited to shows and play test. so everything they do is perfect POE is my favorite game, I can love the game and still have valid concerns. IDK why some people think you cant

[@antonego9581]

@@jamesstewart8663 Theres a different UI for controller entirely. Just like POE1. This is a total non issue

[@CrossfacePanda]

This always happen with any game (and even whole genres) that’s historically been PC focused first, if not outright PC exclusive. First comes: ”This game simply wouldn’t work without keyboard & mouse, so console isn’t even a possibility, you’re wasting your time wishing for it” then: “This console port is gonna take away dev time which could’ve been used to make the REAL version better” and lastly: “The console port has dumbed down the whole game for everybody, if it didn’t exist this game would be way better; it’s the root of everything bad with this game”.

[@altibzz]

remember half the population are below average iq

[@rockkatona100]

My only issue with the crossplay is the point nr 1. If PS and microsoft lets GGG push out the fixes on will, I am more than happy with the cross play. If we need to wait on bug fixes days, then I am gonna most likely skip every league start.

[@CrossfacePanda]

@@rockkatona100 For new league updates, you’ll probably have to wait longer than before since those a software updates, and there’s no special exemption for those on either Playstation or Xbox that I know of. Everybody has to pass certification on software updates no matter what and how big they are, and that’s the process that takes extra time. However, what that means in practice is just that the release date they’ll announce publicly for every new league will be a week or two later than what it’d been if the game hadn’t been crossplay. So from our perspective, we won’t notice any difference. And for stuff that requires smaller tweaks that can be done server side, like balancing and in some cases even bug fixes (depending on the nature of the bug), those can be fixed immediately across platforms without certification, as long as they’ve developed the game with this in mind from the beginning. Some fighting games have started doing this over the last decade, especially Netherrealm’s games (I believe the first game they did this with was Mortal Kombat X), where they can make quick tweaks on their end without needing to pass the whole recertification process with Sony & Microsoft.

[@roccoheat8662]

Poe1 has been on console for a long time now as a identical game to its PC version. I don't see how POE2 will be any different than just allowing the people to play together

[@Tekloc]

they could always add mouse and keyboard support for consoles too, ffxiv has it

[@derektafoya1152]

My Fiancé and I are hyped to the stars for the couch co-op

[@a1pha_star]

Let’s gooo! 🔥

[@vevabg]

Hi , so I'm a console fan and wanted to give you some information from my perspective 😊. First I prefer console not because is cheaper, because I have wife and 2 kids , I go to work and when I come back home and finish all home things that I have to do just sit in my comfy chair in front of my 65 inch tv relax and enjoy the game I play ( hope you understand what I mean) . Second oh boy the console people do invest into the games 😂 only for poe I near 10 000 pounds already invested to suport the game 😂 , so imagine 😉. Don't think that I don't have pc 😊 , i do own one ( and is really nice gaming pc) , actually I do own 2 pc , but this doesn't matter I still prefer my comfy chair and big TV 😀 😉. The future is in the consoles ,the money are there, simple plug and play , ggg knows it and this is why they are heading this direction 😉. Third about the intelligence of the console people compared to the pc ones, ohhh do you really want to know 😂 , about the poe in console is the real hardcore version of the game with all limits people still do endgame content and require a lot more creativity and brain , 😀 console players have jobs , familys, real life and still can afford to play , who is more intelligent 😉. I can continue, but no make sense , now the haters can destroy me with millions hate comments, don't care 😀 😉

[@k1ngjam3s67]

Most of the things about people saying POE2 will be fine with Console, are mostly casuals( not anything wrong, I'm not saying this a derogatory statement). Have to remember the thing that made/kept POE1 what it is today, is the fact that it was a game for Enthusiast, that enjoyed the "grind", which i don't see POE2 becoming.

[@DummyThinksThoughts]

Are you surprised? PoE community is what I refer to as "casual elitists" they talk like elitists , they cry like elitists , but they are playing an ARPG game which is a casual genre . They are only hardcore in their minds . The more the poe 1 Andy's scream the better POE 2 probably is .

[@DSGNjunkie]

RE: the first topic on patch timing... you seem to be overlooking that what you described is currently how it already works for all console players. Yes, slightly slower patches impact the economy, etc.... but it's not like that doesn't already happen-right? Sure console players are a minority today, but we already deal with that "issue".

[@michaelpieters1844]

I want the game to be designed such that mouse and keyboard stays the best and optimal way to play POE 2.

[@Xuel37]

With crossplay there will be more people and the economy will be lively for longer with probably double the people playing.

[@Brian-wj5up]

More players, healthier economy. People let the console vs pc thing leak into areas it doesnt really matter. Besides we all know PCs will always be the dominant. All I want is instant buyout with my stuff insta delivered from the trade site. Im over whispering 40 people for 1 thing and then the hassle of joining party, going to hideout, then trading. This isnt the 50s.

[@uGenxile79]

I play a good deal of games that are cross play with pc and ps5. I swap back and forth between my pc and ps5 often. Its a non issue, this all roots back to a section of the pc community that feel they're special for playing pc.

[@ToshiharuUK]

Patching will only be affected if the actual client gets modified....patches that are mostly serverside dont need to get checked/validated by sony/xbox

[@danielbooker8779]

As a console player, we need cross play more than anything else. The player base is substantially lower than the pc. Without cross play, poe 2 will not survive on console. An example is poe 1. I'm playing league atm and there's only 4 people in chat.

[@Raycheetah]

Final sentence in the Official Console Deep Dive Gameplay Exclusive Trailer of Gamespot: "Yeah I am really looking forward to converting everyone to use a controller when they are playing POE 2." ='[.]'=

[@omegasybers1110]

I don't see any of the criticism points being actually valid. It is a console port of the PC version or PoE2 not the other way around And as long as you don't need new/changed UI or other issues that can't be handled with server side updates, there won't be an issue

[@cristianvelciov4502]

"excelent, succint and it makes complete sense" the only problem is, that's not what's import, what's important is: is it true?

[@k.h.raider9329]

But isn't PoE1 on console too and they don't seem to have issues updating things there when they want? Am I missing something?

[@ruibarian5187]

D4 wasn't lackluster for the wider audience that PoE2 wants to target. The first 20-30 hours of that game are cinematic and story-driven. When you're trying to appeal to a CoD bro who *might* play one other game, Diablo 4 is the exact experience they want. It's only lackluster for hardcore grinders who want infinite gameplay.

[@sksChiefthief]

Game dev here, I doubt this move specifically would result in PoE getting a "massive audience". The product market fit doesn't work for hardcore ARPGs on playstations, it is a more casual platform and is dominated by Action, Adventure and Shooter games. The percent of RPG players on consoles were only about 23% as per Sony's own data at presentation they did last year, and that includes anything fitting the umbrella term of "RPG". I haven't seen data for Xbox, but I imagine it's similar. Despite any marketing spend and development time, I doubt that the percentage of Console players is going to differ much from PoE 1, it's like trying to sell skiing equipment in the Sahara desert. All that being said, this wouldn't affect PC players at all except maybe lower graphic fidelity, but that's not what we play PoE for anyway

[@sksChiefthief]

​@@IMPERIUS. even if 1 million play that's way more than average conversion rate btw. more realistic numbers is tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands if we are lucky. ofc i would love to be wrong about all this and somehow PoE gets millions of new players, but I would not bet on that happening from console

[@titanicjack6744]

Make a good game and console players will come play it. I’m on PS5 and started playing POE about 6 mths ago ( came from D4 with Raxx and DM playing POE) and love it. I have a stupid amount of hours in POE in that time but after watching a lot of POE content I think playing in console has been on hard mode and I told any of my mates who asked about POE to not play unless they have a lot of time to put into it. Now I’m excited to tell them about POE2

[@mistrsynistr7644]

​@sksChiefthief I think the biggest thing for consoles is couch co-op. But yea arpgs on consoles have never really been that popular.

[@sksChiefthief]

@@titanicjack6744 glad to hear it man, and I do agree with the sentiment of "make good games first". but product market fit is a real bitch, especially talking about larger demographics.

[@titanicjack6744]

@@sksChiefthief just 23% of the 50 million PS5’s sold as at December 2023 is a not so insignificant 11.5 million so I can see why they are doing it. From what we’ve seen so far, and with them not hesitating to delay the game, it looks like they are focused on delivering a good, if not great, game at launch. Can’t wait :)

[@Jake22J]

I disagree with the criticism on lower graphical quality. Its a non issue. Even as a console player i know PC will be superior, and consoles will only be given what they can handle. At some point in the future the gap between the different versions might become significant, however by that time all those new console players might be invested enough in POE2 to take the plunge on a PC themselves. In fact I'd say that this is guaranteed to happen - console players who've never played PC before WILL get themselves one because they played POE2 on console first. Having cross progression is brilliant in this regard.

[@deetsitmeisterjd]

PC players really underestimate how good games look on a PS5 with the TV that uses the functionality. Some of best visuals I have seen, have been from Sony exclusives

[@PhrooberCZ]

As a console player i want dynamic control layout nothing more (Space Engineers , Minecraft , Surviving Mars , Helldivers 2 )

[@Exozik]

I am pretty certain it will not be cross-platform between Xbox and PlayStation. Both company refused for years to accept the other platform for cross-play. Cross-platform these days stand for Xbox and PC only which is basically both Microsoft.

[@LeftysRage]

There needs to be a common saying among gamers "don't be a PC elitist douchebag". Or a compete console noob, whichever fits better.

[@glbrazell]

Patch Pipelines: No. This is something we have heard time and again, over and over, for games in the past. I always argued this was a lie, just a myth. It arises from the games in the past that staggered the releases of games and patches because the developers were focused 100% on PC first, console only after PC is taken care of. The reality is that Microsoft and Sony DO have to check the game being released before it is released. That means the developer COULD release the game on PC first, but if they just postpone the release for a few days? The release is simultaneous. For patches, though... Microsoft and Sony generally are perfectly fine with immediate patching. The patches are fixes, not new content of any kind, or if it is new content, it all works based on the code that was already verified by the console developer. Past games used the excuse of the release differential to cover for them focusing on PC first with every bit of what they do. Games today are generally patching same day on all platforms. Doesn't change that some players (especially PC players, because, as you have shown, a good many of the PC players have some kind of -ism against console players (Consolists? Not sure) Graphical Limitations: This is also not true. When a game releases on multiple platforms, the devs create a version of the game unique to each platform. The one that releases on PC will allow the PC player to use whatever they have. The one released for Series X/S will have a much lower limit so that it runs well on that specific hardware. The PC player will still see what they see, and us console players will do what we always do, and drool over the AMAZING videos and shots you guys share, but we will still love the game and have a blast.

[@GornsZorn99]

Nice, an Flashback when poe was announced for Xbox and everyone lost there mind for a few days

[@FartSmucker]

Thats because people thought it wouldn't be an after thought to PoE 1 being a PC game first and thats how it turned out which is nice. PoE 2 is starting from the ground up with far more controller support and balance in mind and thats the problem.

[@dustinshilala4802]

PoE 1 is on consoles…..

[@TalkativeTri]

Exactly.

[@Toddlemosh]

Dude. I can’t tell you how much I appreciate your vibe and just who you seem to be as a human. Your genuine love and excitement for all things POE is infectious… This is probably my most anticipated game in the last five or 10 years, so no pressure or anything GGG lol

[@jorgeelias1294]

Tribalism is a huge issue between humans.. happens in absolutely everything!

[@saltychipmunk190]

So there are real issues with cross play. 1. enforced parity between consoles and pc means limitations of one platform will need to be enforced on the other. this puts the burden on the developers to work around said limitations without impacting their vision. A perfect example of this are complicated games that expect many hot keys and controls. Its why games like real time strategy, when designed for pc feel overwhelming on console and why rts games made for console feel shallow and limiting on pc. I do not think this is an issue for poe because the genre was been historically dominated by a limited set of buttons used a ton. 2. The second is that pc is just full of cheaters and hackers small advantages. Pc is practically DOMINATED by third party tools, even legit players will use stuff like trade macros

[@ChoseSimba]

Hey in the end if it sucks we'll just go back to good old POE1