Insanely Heated Debate vs Glenn Greenwald

DEBATE: Destiny vs Glenn Greenwald on Jan 6
Date: 30 Jan, 2023
Eli Hassell
► / @elihassell
Glenn Greenwald
► / @glenngreenwald
Jan 6 Recap clips
►www.justsecurity.org/74335/fi...
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00:00:00 Teaser / Intro
00:02:28 Jan 6 recap
00:06:05 Glenn Greenwald getting ready
00:10:01 Glenn Greenwald debate start
02:25:09 Post debate convo w/ Pisco and Jessiah
#destiny
#politics
#debate

[@destiny]

Expert Analyst Challenges Destiny, Gets Basic Facts Wrong ►kzbin.info/www/bejne/g57NqIh3j9CFiZo

[@tnndll4294]

Wish Destiny would limit debates with crazy people like Greenwald & Alex Jones.

[@mikelivingood7797]

So Destiny when had a debate where he was supposed to prove J6th was an insurrection, says the protesters do not matter. Trump sending fake electors was a coup. I listened to everyone's opening statements no one said coup, everyone said insurrection. This is called moving the goalposts which is a debating tactic when you do not have a strong argument. If the facts are against you, argue the law, if the law is against you argue the facts, if the facts and law are against you pound the table and yell like hell. This is Destiny's pound the table and yell like hell video.

[@angeltonny1746]

😂4rfxrgv

[@gregor9189]

@@tnndll4294 Destiny is the crazy one pal.

[@groverrogers6916]

​@@gregor9189after watching this I realized how out of touch with reality Destiny is.

[@darkmatchsteve9963]

It’s hard to understand both sides without Alex Jones screaming

[@TheBadGab]

"-MRNA VACCINES!! -GLOBAL WARMING!!!" Already a classic

[@KennedyIvy]

I just opened a new tab with Alex screaming while I listened to this debate. Makes it easier

[@Pemmican1871]

@@KennedyIvy I have it opened for 24 hours every day. Makes life easier

[@bash555]

I got to have Alex screaming in the background to orgasm with my wife

[@Deathwhitch]

That fact that Jones unintentionaly keep Glen from talking makes him an accidental hero. True patriot. I'm gonna go buy his video game now

[@joebe123]

" there weren't thousands, there were only two thousand" -- Glenn Greenwald 2024

[@just_a_turtle_chad]

Two thousand peaceful protesters

[@DeliveringSolutions]

No, from the snippet at the beginning, of which we don't see the entire context, Greenwald was just stating that Destiny had said that there were not more than 2 thousand people in the capitol building. But for real, until we see the entire part of that conversation, I think it is not wise to quote something without first seeing the entire point.... i.e. I'm giving Greenwald the benefit of the doubt. If you have ever watched Greenwald debate before, he is very articulate and does his research. The first part of this video is Destiny replaying clips of the 2 hour and 51 minute video and he knows his audience will not likely watch the entire thing. It's wise for Destiny to put clips at the beginning to make it look like he dominated the debate. The proof is in the pudding. I can't say more until I watch it. The video was just uploaded twenty something minutes ago....

[@MunchinOnDew]

@@just_a_turtle_chadmore like 500-1k peaceful trespassers, 1k-1500 violent trespassers, 1-3k rioters, and 30k-100k rambunctious protesters. Police waved in many of the “trespassers” on the other side of the building. Many of them weren’t aware of the scope of what was happening. A judge has acquitted at least one man of all charges because video evidence was released showing police opening the door and waving him in. This is a complicated situation. Try to engage your brain a little more.

[@dawnkeyy]

​@@just_a_turtle_chadProtestors might be too harsh. A slightly peeved group is what I'd call em

[@chandlers6778]

@@DeliveringSolutions you said a lot so

[@haydennash6780]

I love when people immediately pivot when faced with questions they don’t want to answer.

[@JerkDeBust]

dentiny's entire career in a nutshell.

[@Oxtrooo]

when did he pivot?@@JerkDeBust

[@easyegg9760]

@@Oxtrooo”how many people did the insurrectionists kill” Destiny: refuses to answer, “how many people died in Fort Sumter”

[@chrisjohnson-tn3gl]

i agree with you. it was kind of cringe how many times destiny fell back on this and just started shouting over glen's points or answers to destiny's own questions.

[@angelolopez2319]

@@easyegg9760 zero people died at fort Sumter just like zero people were killed by insurrectionist on j6 he’s literally giving him an answer lmao??? Just because you didn’t know and pick up on that doesn’t mean destiny is wrong

[@CyanPhoenix_]

I like having Eli in these debates, he could do a bit better with moderating but he asks some great, hard questions to both parties and it definitely helps the more reasonable person stand out.

[@galaxycraftings]

a bit better with moderating destiny** you mean.

[@ddubya4097]

He needed a couple mute buttons and a timer though

[@ddubya4097]

He needed a couple mute buttons and a timer though

[@snakebebop]

​@@galaxycraftings he was too busy moderating Glenn

[@galaxycraftings]

which is a pretty large issue when destiny interupted the majority of the conversation@@snakebebop

[@lukewithann7256]

I felt like Destiny was real close to playing the piano on this one lol

[@odeode4338]

I love when he does that.😂

[@kainoizking]

So surprised that he didn’t, if it wasn’t a popular figure he 100 percent would have lmao. I mean the amount of time Glenn spent going off on a long tangent to avoid questions was so frustrating and frankly disappointing from somebody that I actually used to admire.

[@TransKidsMafia]

I want to be a trans kid when I grow up

[@aliendesign2023]

He plays the piano when he's getting owned. He should play funeral music. When someone is forced to scream and yell in a debate that typically means trying to cope with your weak argument. Right, libtards?

[@kainoizking]

@@aliendesign2023 let the copium flow through you friend. Cope and seethe…cope and seeeeeeeethe…

[@twocheezitz9182]

Who else is happy to be watching destiny debating more popular people

[@maluminse6013]

Destiny is obviously trying to raise his profile by debating intelligent and celebrated opponents rather than the ignorant twitch callers that he's accustomed to debating. Big mistake for the soy boy. Glenn Greenwald is miles out of Steve's league.

[@cptcanton8203]

...and get owned. It looks like Destiny is hoping that people will compare him to the intellectual giant of Glen Greenwald.

[@maluminse6013]

@@cptcanton8203 💯

[@juliusb8242]

@@cptcanton8203 what did he get owned on?

[@xJDMWaRRi0Rx]

@@juliusb8242well I’m listening to it right now and specifically on the point of the jan 6th tapes, destiny is crying that Glen is talking about whatever Tucker Carlson released in his 30 minute report. When in fact, Glenn is talking about the full unedited footage from the entire event that were released by Mike Johnson

[@Notorious1441]

"Submitting fraudulent electors is okay if you're trying to buy time to find evidence of a fraudulent election." - Glenn Greenwald 2024

[@1vigorousdragon]

Your Democrat mates have done it over and over again

[@SubvertTheState]

I mean, it was fraudulent. The city I lived in took in all of the mail-in ballots which were late and post-marked them as on time. There was actually no way to even segregate late ballots from the others. That's what a Post Worker whistleblower revealed in my town Erie, PA. Now was that same tactic used on A NATIONAL LEVEL? No. That's why everyone had the same line. "No CREDIBLE EVIDENCE of WIDESPREAD, VOTER fraud." Why not say there was "No Known fraudulent activity in the election process". Because we are still finding pallets of Republican ballots in the f8cking woods under a bridge or half burned somewhere. I didn't even vote for Trump, I just have eyes.

[@derekc423]

nope. certification of the electors has literally never been illegally delayed before.@@1vigorousdragon

[@stevenmoffatt1423]

@@1vigorousdragon What election was that? Or are you one of those “all elections are rigged” folk

[@HarleyMeseekes420]

@@1vigorousdragonwhen?

[@brandonbenjamin5425]

I love how Glenn keeps shrinking the length of the insurrection at first he said 3 hours and a lil past half way into the debate its an hour😂😂

[@stevegreen6086]

Just stating the obvious…ITS FUCKING IRRELEVANT

[@jamesalexander958]

The length was zero

[@Micscience]

You have to be a young person to follow Destiny. I am willing to bet not one older wise gentleman follows Destiny. He is like this new age debater that lives in a internet bubble by not understanding historical context or he down plays it's significance. On the other hand when he is just alone or just talking to someone not debating he actually seems really smart. I don't get the guy I really don't.

[@gianthills]

when the left have no argument they exaggerate.

[@Gumsley86]

Glenn's argument can be summed up as follows: "yeah, but it wasn't that bad".

[@Rem_NL]

Destiny got destroyed, by Destiny..

[@robertotrevino1796]

@@Rem_NLso far destiny is showing that commune sense runs on the Dems side

[@Choscura]

"wasn't that bad" in a "technically not a coup by the president or an insurrection by his followers" sense, which is important, and also, he had more good points about "the way you go after bad guys isn't by being a worse bad guy" about the known bad behavior of law enforcement going after these idiots

[@taLLdavidproduction]

​@@robertotrevino1796yea the people who dont know what a woman is have common sense on their side riiight

[@akselandor8975]

Quite literally.

[@SoSickSry]

For the longest time i thought Eli Hassel was an oil painting of an IT nerd

[@schwango4816]

😂 based

[@AB-et6nj]

No just Jewish

[@Dirty_bubs]

And what a beautiful painting it is 🖼️

[@peterkirk8510]

I thought rose wrist got a haircut lmao

[@aidanwalter2823]

omg this is so funny

[@owenschmidt1608]

The most insane thing about this debate is that Glenn greenwald has an entire multi-million dollar complex in Brazil to give his news and he's putting out in 1080p and then this silly internet girl over here is broadcasting in 4K brutal

[@highway955]

The silly internet girl tore this Glenn moron a new asshole though

[@davidalvarez7262]

😢😂

[@MrParedex]

Internet in Brazil absolutely sucks

[@wizzzer1337]

Resmaxxing mogging is real

[@TransKidsMafia]

Please pray for Amish trans kids. Please pray for the trans kids of Sentinel island.

[@zachpedrotti307]

If I try to murder someone with a pencil. It’s not considered attempted murder because the outcome of me succeeding is nearly zero…..Glens logic

[@mariab7453]

actually, in that sense, isn't Glen correct? No one would get charged with attempted murder if they use a non-lethal weapon. They will get charged with assault but to jump to attempted murder is a big leap, even if there is the intent to kill. I'm no lawyer though so I'm not sure how it works but I do know that no one was charged with insurrection on January 6th. They were all charged with trespassing and a few with seditious conspiracy, which is not the same as insurrection.

[@milantarbuk1039]

@@mariab7453 Just checked, regardless of how ineffective the tool or method, if you can prove that there was intent to not just harm the victim but kill them then you would be charged with attempted murder. In short, it's not the lethality that matters it's the intent.

[@RanEncounter]

​​@@mariab7453 He isn't because if you publicly state what you are doing and how, it is still an attempted murder even if you try to do it with a pen. It is a premeditated killing.

[@puctbridge]

@@mariab7453 Look up the case of the lady that killed her lover with the heel of her stiletto by repeatedly beating him with it and then come back! Just type in Stiletto Murder. One could argue the end of that type of shoe is just a thick pencil! Not even a sharpened pencil lol

[@mariab7453]

@@milantarbuk1039 again, I’m no lawyer but if you attacked someone with a spoon and claimed you wanted to kill them, what jury would believe that? I imagine it would be very difficult to prove in court because the evidence (the spoon) contradicts the intent (the desire to kill).

[@hmkhgx8068]

Saying "peacefully" is the right wing "in a video game"

[@GDJ113]

And if the woman floats then she's a witch

[@CynicalGear]

What are you even trying to say?

[@thulyblu5486]

@@CynicalGear Some people incite violence and follow that up with "... in a video game" just to get plausible deniability just in case. OP says the right does the same with inserting the word "peacefully"

[@thulyblu5486]

wasn't the excusing-the-riots-brigade saying they're "mostly peaceful" pretty much all left wing? ...

[@CynicalGear]

@@thulyblu5486 well, that’s just a stupid statement then. Especially because destiny has made the same argument when it comes to Ray Epps. In the debate against drone tech destiny Consistently regurgitated the fact that Ray Epps once, after being called out as a feds said do it “peacefully”. But now it doesn’t seem to matter when it comes to Trump.

[@imaginaryfanboy]

This is the world Pisco wants.

[@leeammagno2393]

I'm glad I can now steal a blade of intellectual property grass

[@shanecorrigan8524]

What the fuck is a pisco

[@LoudWaffle]

@@shanecorrigan8524 It's a company responsible for the production and delivery of consumer-grade piss.

[@roymarshall_]

@@LoudWaffle hot

[@amplifier515]

@@shanecorrigan8524Pisco is a spirit from Chile and Peru made from fermented grapes. Delicious when prepared as a “Pisco Sour” or mixed with Coke (“piscola”).

[@gg-uq6zm]

1:55:47 “ Prestigious lawyers like Rudy Giuliani” 💀

[@wahh3074]

R agedlikemilk

[@rainmaker6261]

Lol and this is why Glenn goes out of his way to explain the history of Rudy Guiliani to Destiny and his crew of brain dead children who believe history began in 2016. Rudy Giuliani has been on this planet for 80 years. He was a widely respected lawyer and mayor for far more of those 80 years than he has been broady scorned, a very recent phenomenon.

[@seamusmcavey3826]

@realrudygiuliani worth a follow

[@davidsaraclark3739]

You know Giuliani was like, the batman of prosecutors in his early life, right?

[@ssj4punkrocker]

This comment is fine example of the American education system

[@songrunner3027]

Destiny gets more and more agitated as the debate continues. He's clearly losing. I'm not a fan of him having to glance to his monitors and try to look up things on the fly. Glenn came prepared and didn't have to look up anything.

[@GeorgeSavrille]

"I will immediately contest all these points..." *Doesn't contest any of the points and rambles instead*

[@phoenixfire8226]

as destiny is wont to do.

[@note4note804]

Glenn saying an insurrection isn't an insurrection unless you used everything available to you to do it is like saying that you can't be charged with attempted murder by failing to poison someone when you own a gun.

[@user-ui5bo5um8m]

He's saying Donald Trump's actions objectively dont constitute incitement because he didnt actually encourage anyone to illegally enter the capital ; we dont retroactively define things as incitement based on how other people subjectively interpret what is said. He's saying Jan 6th wasnt an insurrection because the overwhelming majority of people there were unarmed, had no intention of committing an insurrection [confirmed in FBI interviews] and had no conceivable way of achieving an insurrection.

[@roymarshall_]

@@user-ui5bo5um8m You don't have to be armed to be part of an insurrection, that is nowhere in the definition. Their testimony after the fact once facing potential legal consequences carries little weight.

[@note4note804]

@@user-ui5bo5um8m Pointing out that you can direct morons to perform an illegal act and then highlight that they were too stupid or ill equip to do said act doesn't mean you didn't direct them to perform an illegal act. That's why attempted crimes are still illegal even if they fail. If I thought that my boss had a peanut allergy and I told my coworker to give him a peanut butter sandwich, it's still attempted murder if he doesn't have the allergy.

[@user-ui5bo5um8m]

​@@note4note804 "Pointing out that you can direct morons to perform an illegal act" - Except he objectively DIDNT 'direct them to do an illegal act'. - His statements were vague and open to interpretation (as-is often the case with politicians on the left) which IS NOT incitement and DOES NOT constitute a crime ; you cannot retroactively define speech as incitement based on how other people choose to interpret it. *"then highlight that they were too stupid or ill equip to do said act"* - Their obviously and woefully inadequate lack of means to achieve insurrection provides circumstantial evidence towards their lack motive. - The subsequent FBI interviews confirmed the overwhelming majority of the Jan 6th protesters had no intent to commit insurrection. - Calling something an 'insurrection' when 'the overwhelming majority of people involved had no intent of committing insurrection' is disingenuous.

[@user-ui5bo5um8m]

​@@roymarshall_ *"You don't have to be armed to be part of an insurrection"* - Sure, but being armed is indicative of insurrection and the fact they were not provides basis to doubt the claim. *"Their testimony after the fact once facing potential legal consequences carries little weight."* Their testimony and interrogations by the FBI, COMBINED with their conduct on the day (which can be best characterized as trespassing and minor scuffles with police - 0 murders and the most damage that occurred was the 'theft' of the speakers podium which never made it past the lobby), COMBINED with their obvious and woefully inadequate ability to actually effectuate an insurrection (both in terms of armaments and in terms of the possible outcomes from occupying the capital), Provides more than sufficient evidence to dismiss the unevidenced claim that the majority of them wanted to enact insurrection.

[@tjbes]

I don’t think Glenn realizes that he admitted it was the definition of an insurrection and then went on to argue it wasn’t an insurrection. He is such an inconsistent and dishonest thinker.

[@truthstarved]

The common usage of terms and legal definitions of terms are not the same thing; the former is subject to myriad interpretations while the latter is shackled by precedent setting language. Destiny plays fast and loose with language in service to bias while Greenwald is limited by his regard for legal definitions.

[@tjbes]

@@truthstarved But the way Glenn described it is the legal definition of an insurrection. That’s my point. He undermined his own argument. It’s not Destiny (who I’m no fan of) who is playing fast and loose with language or constantly contradicting himself. Greenwald just gave an extremely weak argument.

[@LukeMcGuireoides]

Yeah, Glen has lost his cred. His arguments here are so very insubstantial. He doesn't even put forth any significant legal argument here.

[@JerkDeBust]

he won the debate easily.

[@JerkDeBust]

@@LukeMcGuireoides insubstantiated, not a word.

[@mpurusho]

Donald Trump: “You’re too honest Mike [Mike].” Glenn: “Trump really believed his lawyers.” 2:05:11

[@StinkCabbage]

You nailed it

[@gianthills]

too much cnn, kid.

[@mpurusho]

You’ve given me a lot to think about here. Let me check back in a week,.

[@StinkCabbage]

@@gianthills Too much System Update junior

[@danposner]

Glen sounds like a south park character when he talks.

[@ChadLieberman1]

He sounds like Bob Odenkirk

[@ThrustWithVigor]

It’s like nails on a fucking chalkboard

[@Deathwhitch]

I'm not your buddy pal!

[@russellwest8767]

Also, lol about Glenn saying “I’m above this” as a guy who was happy to share a panel with Alex jones

[@Skibbityboo0580]

It's true though, he is beneath it!

[@russellwest8767]

@@Skibbityboo0580 sorry skibbity I gotta edit lol I said that completely wrong

[@Skibbityboo0580]

@@russellwest8767 All good, lets just hold eachother by the peeworm, and go as hard as we can.

[@hberrisford12]

*grabs the peeworm*

[@LoudWaffle]

ayo wtf goin on in this thread

[@MRYUNGSPLASH]

Glenn greenwald is a national treasure

[@chaueter1041]

The first seven minutes, the montage put together is awesome…

[@DJayJesse]

Greenwald is basically just a "coups are things that violent foreigners do on television with AK47s" kinda guy

[@deadgolfer6345]

Those are coups.

[@mrt7469]

He's right, those sound exactly like coups. Infact, if I had to picture a coup, it would look exactly like that.

[@jaybrosbarber2751]

​​@@mrt7469and sex trafficking is literally just what happens in the taken movies.

[@DJayJesse]

@@mrt7469 No. It's a "feels over reals" appeal to the tone of a situation that makes him look like an idiot

[@Miderguy_]

😂

[@Jon-fc2ss]

"It depends on how a congressman is killed for it to be an insurrection" -Glen Greenwald, 2024

[@Michael-kp4bd]

I mean out of context that’s like one of the least insane statements he made 😅 Motive would 100% matter. Here, the motive for many of the law breaking violent invaders of the Capitol was to keep Trump in power, and that was Trump’s motive as well, so a killing would be clearly for insurrectionist purposes. A random psycho on a random day killing a random congressperson would likely not be evidence of trying to overthrow the government. Does any of this help Glenn in this context? No. But quoting the statement without context to make it sound wrong just gives it credibility for the annoying reasons i just had to outline.

[@EffigyofChaos]

That is accurate, though.

[@semo9197]

@@Michael-kp4bd Very true lmao, its almost like he forgot he was in a debate about an event where a large group of people broke into the capital 😂

[@CribNotes]

@@semo9197 "a large group of people broke into the capital 😂" Yes, with the assistance of under cover deep state agents. You young and dumbers are way too slow on this stuff.

[@MrMango331]

@@Michael-kp4bd It wasn't why, it was how. It's dumb af

[@Christian_TH]

Glenn would by this logic argue that a suicide bomber who fails to kill any other people, isnt a terrorist.

[@nickmrkobrada8027]

I think he would accept it’s a terrorist. Just not one capable of taking down the pentagon and the two towers. This feels like Glenn is saying “they used this as a massive event organized to allow trump to win… but it wasn’t” and destiny is arguing the definition of insurrection. Just the unspoken theme, I feel.

[@smcqui]

No one had a bomb or gun except the Capital Police

[@100AcreWoodz1]

​@smcqui many people were armed. They just never discharged them

[@smcqui]

@@100AcreWoodz1 Name one person

[@NastazyaPhylipovnaTchornaya]

​@@smcquiI'm afraid I don't have their personal information. Are you deliberately being deceptive, or did you not see with your own eyes individuals- not FBI stooges - in trees with ARs around the ellipse? Confirmed by Capitol police recordings? Why did Trump want the metal detector removed from the ellipse so his supporters could "peacefully protest, march with [him ] to the Capitol [and] fight like Hell?" Yeah, it's spelled CAPITOL. The CAPITAL, in the USA, varies from state to state. DC is the federal capital. Austin, TX, is the state capital.

[@xyzbesixdouze]

Hey towards the end i could perceive you as more agreeable, and it felt no loss... the calm and less screaming voice, can also make a point and hammer some items out. What i liked of your older debates is that you synthesise and stealman the opposing debater, before blowing holes in their defence, and that allways feels so more awesome then to battlerap all your points to a conclusion. Looking forewards the talk with JP !

[@iknowyourname36]

THANK YOU FOR SAYING THEY SWEAR AN OATH TO THE CONSTITUTION. HOLY SHIT IVE BEEN SO PISSED NO ONE HAS BEEN BEEN SAYING IT.

[@IAmTheBugInsideYou]

No it was to Donald! Pence is his VP, HE HAS TO SHOW HIS LOYALTY!

[@SaltyCorpsman]

I was getting a little irritated by that as well. There is a difference between legal and illegal orders. Of course, I suppose that is up to each individual service member’s subjective interpretation. We aren’t all lawyers, and you’d be hard pressed to find lawyers that agree on what is legal or not. To Glenn’s credit, there would be those that would have probably followed those orders. It does, lend some credit to his point. However, destiny is correct, it would be a horrible look if Trump had to take military action to effectuate a coup. It’s optically more appealing for a large popular uprising ushering in trump. Reminds me of Julius Caesar, 3 times he denied the crown. Sorry to ramble.

[@actionalex3611]

@@SaltyCorpsman And the fact that Millie had actually been taking steps in case Trump would have moved towards that.

[@SaltyCorpsman]

@@actionalex3611 A valid point. There are enough safeguards within the system to prevent something like this. It isn’t fool proof, but I am confident that it is very unlikely to ever really be tried. Had this been a planned coup, I seriously believe there would have been more blood in the streets.

[@gsfouroone5045]

They swear an oath to the Constitution and Commander in Chief. So, they are required to follow the POTUS orders unless they formally refuse or resign. This is the oath military must swear for enlistement: "I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God."

[@NugKnights]

Imagine if in a murder trial the defendant says ignore the video of the murder. Lest just focused on the video of him eating lunch.

[@jennifershaw5302]

Telling people to be peaceful is incitement now? What did you think the clips show you?

[@serjarmen]

@@jennifershaw5302 yeah just ignore all the fear pumping in his speech and cling to a throw away line.

[@alexraymond5572]

@serjya6762 MUH FEAR PUMPING!!!!!!!!!!!! Charge him with fear pumping lmao

[@swickens930]

​@@serjarmenFear pumping? It was actually primarily about how the election was illegitimate. That's not fear pumping. If you can quote anything he said that is instilling fear, like idk, "the Capitol is going to murder conservatives!" Then I'd love to see a quote of any fear mongering in his speech.

[@EmptyDisc1]

​@@jennifershaw5302 "your honor the mob boss said he wanted the accused to 'take care of' the deceased, not murder him! I rest my case.

[@tjbes]

Wow, Glen Greenwald could go to the Olympics with all the mental gymnastics he’s doing.

[@Trossman107]

He just made up that 2000 russian soldiers were killed in the wagner coupe lol it was like less than 20

[@vp3398]

True! They just brushed such a significant overstatement off

[@dannyboy3163]

It was alot more than 20. 20 officers…thousands of soldiers

[@tristansheese4149]

Coup was staged. Putin wanted distance and deniability for what Wagner has done, is doing, and will do.. Belarus was strong armed into paying Wagner the millions Putin owed. Progs not dead either. Wagner is behind the hamas oct attack AND the terror cells popping off to get US to attack Iran. You're all so clueless.

[@IncognitoAtreides]

That is not true. There were less than 100 dead. @dannyboy3163

[@patricklloyd1797]

He also spoke about it being "crushed", when it was actually a negotiated settlement which saw few deaths. If they had been "crushed", then maybe it would have been 2000 but that's not the reality we live in

[@jacesantibata6917]

Eli is W moderator

[@parzivallampruge2549]

Rare

[@chinchillatwitch7234]

Mewh, i gotta be honest, why need a moderator between 2 people. He wasnt bad, but do we even need him?

[@Rodent_]

@@chinchillatwitch7234 i like how he push's people to explain their points more in depth.

[@BrendanBeckett]

@@chinchillatwitch7234 Why wouldn't you?

[@Wickybizob1]

100% agree.

[@robinmc142]

HOLY FUCK THE CONTEXT I'M LEARNING ABOUT HERE MY MIND IS BLOWING

[@lucinity4351]

Is there somewhere i can go to get destinys notes or are those locked behind a paywall or not open to public?

[@nikoniortnike]

He’s posted them to his X account.

[@danagadberry5129]

I want to hear a debate between an avid Trump supporter and another conservative Trump supporter who disagrees.

[@SlackerMagician]

disagrees on what? Jan 6th?

[@tristenatorplaysgames6833]

Just look at q. Half of them are saying the deep state pdfs caused this and the other half are saying yippee trump should’ve finished overthrowing the government

[@leedeehan]

Never going to happen, all people accusing Trump already hate him. Its the most partisan bs ever

[@Seaneey]

It wouldn't be interesting. They'd end up agreeing & making out for 45 minutes

[@danilonden3782]

You don't realise that trump supporters are in a cult, so they aren't allowed their own opinion.

[@unclehollywoodshouseofther995]

I watched as Jan 6th happened. The one thing that sticks with me was people coming out of the Capital claiming "we stopped the steal" and cheering

[@alexraymond5572]

and?

[@swickens930]

Wow, so powerful. Imagine getting into the Capitol to overthrow the government and you just go home 30 minutes later lol. Sounds more like a mini-riot than an actual pre-planned coup

[@DeliveringSolutions]

The problem with what we watched, is that it was select footage put out by the mainstream media who have a track record of their dislike for Donald Trump. The more one researched January 6th, I mean really research it, and not just gobble up what CNN, NBC, and even FOX say ... the more you realize that there were many under cover federal employees and 'contractors' helped make this what it was, and it still was not as violent as they wanted it to be. If you believe the media and you believe the government has only the best intentions and would never lie to you intentionally, then you will never believe that January 6th was anything other than what "the people that you trust" tell you that it was.

[@stonetemplepilot420]

​@alexraymond5572 these people KNEW what they were doing. They weren't there just to break stuff, it was to end democracy.

[@godyamit]

​@@alexraymond5572and part of an insurrection is the obstruction of a federal proceeding. I know it's a lot of information for your tiny brain but try to keep up

[@Wunder_Dog]

Glen - There was not near enough people for this to be an insurrection. Eli - How many people does it need to be? Glen - You can't set a number for that. How did they not push back on that and just except him using that as an argument but he can't quantify it. All he said was 2-2000 is not enough to qualify for insurrection. Is it 3000, 10000, 1000000? Glen also kept talking about Coup when the whole discussion was insurrection.

[@100AcreWoodz1]

Glen dodging questions like Mohamad Ali this whole debate

[@ab0807]

I think Eli did a good job of trying to keep questions focused. Thanks for your help to meditate this important discussion.

[@GO-GO_SO-SO]

I personally think that the most annoying part of Conservatives denying the facts is that if a president on the left had said and did the exact same thing the day of and leading up to that day, they would be singing a completely different tune. But since it is someone on their side, they nearly injure themselves pivoting and reaching for whataboutisms.

[@justomunoz7168]

Exactly!!!

[@MustardSkaven]

That's not a conservative problem. That's a problem of how partisan/divided the US is. That goes both ways. The US is obviously divided into 2 camps right now politically and each side is in an echo chamber and unwilling to consider the other. I'm a European and when I saw how the "fine people on both sides" got played out in the US, it became very clear how polarised US citizens are.

[@jackeagleeye3453]

@@MustardSkaven Actually there was a study done recently that MAGA voters in particular are a lot more inclined to lie on their beliefs and views and how things play out. The US is divided, but with MAGA the problem is a lot more prevalent.

[@ConsciousExpression]

@@MustardSkaven No it doesn't go both ways. We are perfectly capable of saying that people on our side are corrupt. For example who do you see defending the Senator who got caught taking bribes from Egypt? Oh right, nobody. Nobody is whatabouting that and trying to say it's not as bad as stuff Trump did. The right is the party of changing the subject and avoiding the topic. Period.

[@BlackHeartRC]

Glenn’s not conservative at all

[@user-by6fp4ov3k]

"There weren't thousands of people inside the Capitol. There was only 2,000 people"

[@odeode4338]

But let‘s be fair, if some says „thousands of people“ the usually mean a much larger number than 2000. It‘s a term to say it‘s a fuck ton of people but we don‘t have clear numbers. Plus he likely has Destinys large number, of multiple tens of thousands, in mind.

[@just_a_turtle_chad]

Two thousand = thousands lulw Wouldn't that be more like 5k or over that?

[@earlofpants]

@@just_a_turtle_chadno it means more than one thousand, pick up a fucking dictionary lmfao

[@calculator91]

You'd say a "couple thousand" if you were shorthanding it.

[@jackeagleeye3453]

@@just_a_turtle_chad I know you guys support alternative facts lol

[@arian6565]

54:57 I couldn't stop bawling at this part 😭

[@tomjames9681]

What’s annoying is that biting the bullet on any of these stances would make you come across as more genuine and worth listening to. It’s a lot of what Destiny does to get people from both sides to listen to him.

[@ddubya4097]

What bullet did he bite here?

[@Walks8105]

He didn't, that's the problem

[@B-Nice]

Edward Snowden is rolling over in his VPN

[@NR-wg4cf]

😂

[@derekc423]

I think maybe Glenn was just in a coma on January 6 or something. He seems to have forgotten that the congressional floor had barricaded the doors with furniture, guns drawn, as people were banging on the doors trying to get in.

[@CribNotes]

Are talking about Q Anon Horn Guy who was being quietly and cheerfully escorted onto the congressional floor by Capitol security? Were you in a coma for the last 3 years AFTER Jan 6?

[@tarfielarchelone2674]

​@CribNotes yeah that's a shit point he was moved their after they were escorted out. We literally see him break in earlier.

[@Tesla_Death_Ray]

Woah I didn't know they tried to get into the building! This changed everything. That's so coup.

[@MishaLan23]

No he just knows what an insurrection is and that this was obviously not one which is why the media and the committe withheld video and lied about the death of a police officer

[@uhok6712]

@@MishaLan23show us the video then. Oh wait. It doesn’t exist because we saw the whole event live from like 500 different cameras. Sorry your coup failed. Maybe get less stupid people next time.

[@georged822]

I think I lost braincells listening to this. This debate could have been about 9 minutes long lmao

[@GovnaBuckingham]

I watched like the first hour and they kept circling around the same points of how to define an insurrection instead of arguing what was Trumps intent. The referee guy wasn't really doing his job.

[@jonathanwilliams1641]

It is hard for me to believe that Greenwald even believes what he is arguing. He knows the grift money is on the Trump side and he is going after it.

[@gianthills]

i see, you mean because Trump never took a salary?

[@jonathanwilliams1641]

@@gianthills Trump kept his salary for the last 6 months of his term. He pledged to donate his entire salary but he can't keep any of his promises so he lied about this as well. Have your $400 gold sneakers arrived yet?

[@gianthills]

@@jonathanwilliams1641 and Biden didn't take bribe from Ukraine? 😆 grow up, kid.

[@gianthills]

@@jonathanwilliams1641 wrong. Now tell us about bidens corruption

[@Jojahn]

Glenn's point that it wasnt an insurrection because they didnt succeed is crazy

[@thomasramsey1870]

Technically it was an attempted insurrection. Of course he is still wrong and a grifter. Lol

[@onlyjoinedtotroll]

it wasnt even near an insurrection, only a handful of people did anything illegal, if that. Nothing like Antifa did a few years prior...you know when buildings and police cars were on fire outside the WH?

[@jeltje50]

It's saying that a plan to murder someone doesn't count because the would be murderer are the duo from home alone. It's such a ridiculous position if you think about it longer than 5 seconds.

[@gunsalves]

It's not simply about it not succeeding it's that they never came with the means to succeed in the first place... Over you and Destiny's heads I suppose. If you call that an insurrection then you're most likely a person who just throws words around all willy nilly...aka a democrat or liberal...

[@gunsalves]

​@@thomasramsey1870How exactly was it an "attempted insurrection"? You believe those people went there with the means or the intention of over throwing the government? That's straight comedy... It was nothing more than a protest. If you want to call that an insurrection what do you call it when BLM was rioting, burning and violently destroying everything?

[@Tdiesel2679]

I didn’t think it was possible, but Greenwald actually sounds dumber without Alex Jones screaming every 20 seconds.

[@respectfulgamer7232]

Greenwald isn't even dumb in an entertaining way.

[@elibrod9981]

Only if you are about 13 years old and never left mom’s basement..)) Oh wait, Destiny’s fans don’t ever grow up, so, it’s al good

[@HainsleyLP]

​​@@elibrod9981 did your mom leave you in the basement when you were a kid? I'm sorry my mom loved me. You should have called CCP.

[@Mike-vs1gf]

Yeah. he actually had to talk more this time.

[@mountaindew3201]

@@HainsleyLPlame excuse, knowing well you’re never going to change and have a loser mom, just like yourself

[@ethakis]

The more you see of the j6 footage the more unhinged you realize it is.

[@stevegreen6086]

The reaction is unhinged? Couldn’t agree more

[@nikoniortnike]

@@stevegreen6086I think trespassing on government property, brawling with police, smashing windows and doors, calling for the execution of the VP and erecting a gallows outside the US capitol is pretty unhinged. Don’t know what your definition of the word “unhinged” is but it seems to be fundamentally flawed.

[@stevegreen6086]

@@nikoniortnike So, tell me more about all the scandalous BS the FBI did to frame 1,000+ people. Also, even if all that happened and they committed those crimes under NO circumstances should them, or anyone, be held months and sometimes years in solitary confinement without charge or trial. Idgaf if they murdered Pence it’s still not how our justice system works. Under this kid sniffer justice is justASS

[@edward481]

These are the kinds of conversations one sees when a country is imploding with corruption and people try to argue that some people aren't corrupt.

[@Walks8105]

I've come to believe that destiny actually believes what he's saying because he just can't possibly fathom the aggriguously corrupt actors wielding government power.

[@integratedfrost435]

Definitely the best moderator we've seen

[@odeode4338]

It‘s crazy that Eli‘s channel is only around 6k.

[@merlin72001]

He consistintly let Glenn ramble over Destiny.

[@Gardimus]

I don't know, that mod for the Alex Jones debate who did nothing most of the time, let Alex hijack every conversation, condescendingly told everyone how great they were doing, especially Glenn, and then started screaming like a lunatic is a close second.

[@PR-lf1qr]

He has great moderator physiognomy. He looks like a great early 20th century author or poet who wrote about his time as a signalman or code taper during the First World War.

[@roymarshall_]

@@PR-lf1qr I feel like that is significantly impacted by his background which literally makes him look like an author bio photo

[@MrArthurT1100]

When the Pulitzer Prize winner, in the first five-ish minutes of a conversation, is seriously saying polls in January suggest a candidate *will* win...good god.

[@DCzero50]

If you think thats what he meant with that point youre actually brain dead

[@evanbyrne7020]

Snowden won that Pulitzer Prize, really. All the Greenwald had to do was publish.

[@CribNotes]

Do you actually think Dementia Joe 2024 will get as many votes as Dementia Joe 2020? You're out of your mind. Or do you think Gavin Newsom will show up on stage this summer and win November? Or how about Michelle Obama!! Yay!! What percentage of Americans don't even know who the fk Gavin Newsom is?

[@vorbo01]

He was saying the polls favored Trump to set up his hypothetical, not once did he even imply that because the January polls show Trump winning does he thinks it's ironclad he's going to win. Are you okay?

[@scottwills8539]

@@vorbo01 He brought up the polls constantly in the conversation, not to "set up his hypothetical" but to cheerlead for Trump. Are you okay?

[@anthonyjohn4380]

Glenn Greenwald really believes that Trump did not control the whole narrative and was convinced by others is delusional in so many ways. My ears are bleeding.

[@cromBumny]

So how did Trump control the narrative? When he tweeted "peaceful patriotic protest "?

[@gianthills]

tell that to all the data scientists who proved there was massive fraud. follow the science, kiddo.

[@robinmc142]

To be fair Tucker said he'd release all the footage. So I doubt that he got more than what he released.

[@saltking2715]

man, is Glenn training for the olympics? these mental gymnastics are through the roof

[@michaelturley3457]

Couldn’t beat Ben in a debate about this so he went to Glenn 😂 Destiny should just take the L and get over this childish argument

[@JobVanDam]

@@michaelturley3457 He has to hold onto this tell himself the right is just as crazy or more crazy than the left. He cant let it go.

[@sitonmuhdeckasshole]

I think it's because he considers himself influential in politics and thinks pushing this narrative helps Biden's chances of reelection and he know he can out argue most people to convince his audience that wants to hear it was an insurrection that it is. I don't think he actually feels like it was a serious insurrection, he's just looking it as a good opportunity to play the whole TRUMPS A THREAT TO DEMOCRACY card. If you think 2000 hillibillies were a threat to democracy and downplay them being disorganized and not using serious lethal force, you're just not interested in having an honest discussion, he's just doing political activism here. That's why he smiled when he argued it with Ben because he knew he was about to be silly and probably lose but he had to give it his best shot. He doesn't buy any of these arguments@@JobVanDam

[@TheFatAssCat]

@@JobVanDam y'all so triggered you've come to this strippers youtube channel to cope without any kind of actual argument. Just like your daddy Glenn.

[@stevewillis1916]

And then there’s you, who watches twitch streamers for political advice 😂😂😂.

[@mattcoakes5682]

The crazy thing about using "It ended in Trump peacefully giving up power, therefore it wasn't an attempted coup" as a defense, is that means that anyone could become president, try to do a sneaky coup, and as long as you forfeit before they charge you, you can't be held liable. Even if you wanna say Trump didn't try to do a coup, it's just not the precedent you want to set...

[@Branif]

The problem is Destiny always wants to tell us to trust in the institutions, and on this, he wants to clutch his pearls. Very inconsistent

[@THEKNIGHT108]

@@Branifliterally nothing about this is inconsistent, the president alone does not an institution make.

[@mattcoakes5682]

@@Branif So for one, that is a complete non sequitur to my comment, not sure why you are replying to me with that. But to engage with that - it's not inconsistent at all. Destiny has general trust in our institutions but has never said "trust all members of all institutions regardless of what actions they take." If he had said those words, then I guess his criticism of Trump here would be inconsistent? But he has never said anything remotely close to that.

[@alexd4566]

That is like saying “I didn’t actually kill my aunt, since I missed my shot. Therefore, it wasn’t attempted murder” It’s a ridiculous argument.

[@JobVanDam]

I just think liberals have to call Jan 6th a coup and an insurrection cause they can always tell themselves "but the right is MORE dangerous look at Jan 6th" Meanwhile the amount of things where the left has gone too far is insane. Then again i'm kinda used to this the left has such high standards for the right. The right standards are dont be crazy, and thats a huge bar for the left.

[@northernlight8857]

Project Valkyrie only had approx 200 people and most of them were inactive.

[@Rorington]

A coup, or an insurrection? these are just terms of art... Completely abstract, noone can truly ever define them.

[@rogerdodger4212]

Terms of art have definitions, they simply aren’t tied to the literal definitions of the words being used. Stop using legal terminology to make yourself sound smarter, it isn’t working.

[@gianthills]

an insurrection requires an armed take over. tell us what a woman is, kid.

[@matthewobrien7326]

Simple Glem’s argument boils down to “if you try to coup badly, you didn’t try to coup.” It’s akin to going to court and saying “I tried to murder my wife, but I’m a terrible shot so it’s not really attempted murder.” I would urge Simple Glem to return his law degree to the Cracker Jack box from whence it came.

[@maluminse6013]

Simple, Pulitzer prize winning, Glenn

[@matthewobrien7326]

@@maluminse6013I don’t care if he won the Heisman, he’s still Simple Glem. His entire argument here is, at best, intellectually stunted to the point he cannot defend it. It’s not an insurrection because the threat wasn’t sufficient! And/or there were no guns! Or Trump left office! Or…reasons! Simple Glem is simple minded.

[@MrDreadEnd]

it cant be considered a real cou

[@matthewobrien7326]

@@MrDreadEndit’s only a diet coup, because there weren’t any helicopters and Trump didn’t call the military? The zero calorie coup.

[@smackyourlocalfrauditor9767]

😂😂😂 not the cracker jack box

[@thedappermagician6905]

The difference between this comment sections and Glenns on his own video is astronomical.

[@goosemasters]

yeah, its what i was expecting. I thought destiny was annoying. Especially annoying since I just watched his extremely polite and asskissing debate with Ben Shapiro. Clearly he knows how to be calm and rational,,, just not today.

[@xJDMWaRRi0Rx]

First time learning that all sides live in their own echo chambers huh?

[@mikem4481]

@@goosemastersbecause Shapiro is a neocon and largely agrees with lib hacks like him. i think ppl are starting to see what's going on now

[@vishg5148]

@@goosemastersyou gonna cry about it? Maybe glenny boy shouldn’t have lied the entire time

[@SkilledTadpole]

Nearly every comment there is an ad hominem attack on Destiny, effectively none address the substance of his argument. No surprise.

[@openthinker6562]

Fun historical fact: the Bombing of Fort Sumter that started the Civil War actually didn’t see any casualties. Every Union soldier inside survived. Right up until the end. Because as the fort surrendered and they fired a hundred gun salute, two men were killed due to a mishandling of explosives. It’s kind of poetically ironic how the first deaths that started a civil war, a war between Americans, were killed by friendly fire

[@kopekopekop]

Destiny talks about thousands of people violently entering the capital. Glen: “imagine two people with knives standing outside the capital”

[@acason4]

LMAO. It's always a pivot & an obfuscation with people like Glenn. All of his previous credibility is on the wind...

[@alexwestconsulting]

thousands of people didn't "violently enter the capital". Most people with very few exceptions simply walked in.

[@masonterhorst]

@@alexwestconsultingbreaking and entering is legally considered a violent crime. The door/window doesn’t fix itself for each person to break again after the first few people break it to enter. Doesn’t mean the other people didn’t also commit “breaking and entering” if they trespassed through an already broken door or window onto property where they were not legally permitted. Also even if we granted that point, Glenns own stated estimate for how many explicitly violent people there were was around 120-200. That is like 100X the example he keeps falling back to “two violent people”. It’s a laughably stupid point.

[@gimpg5329]

@@alexwestconsulting So ig if someone breaks into your house, you would be fine if a bunch of random people just wandered into it, since the door is now "open".

[@acason4]

@@alexwestconsulting So I'll let a 100+ of my friends know they can swing by your house anytime to break/kick your doors down, smash out your windows, damage your property screaming hang "Alex West Consulting". Also, I'll be sure an mention that as long as only 5 of them damage your property you'll be fine to advocate to law enforcement that the other 95 that dog pile in behind them were not violent & didn't actually commit a crime. That's the logical entailment of your delusional line of reasoning. Face palm.

[@patrickb6862]

1:09:30 on wikipedia it's reported that 2 people from Wagner Group and between 13 and 29 Russian government forces were killed not more than two thousand as Glenn Greenwald so confidently claimed. I checked Russian wikipedia to check and see if they make a claim of thousands dying there for some reason; however, they claim that exactly 15 casualties amongst Russian servicemen and 2 Wagner mercenaries.

[@joelsommers]

I wish I had thought to check that. Of course it was so few that naming the actual number would have muted the point Glenn was trying to make. Thanks for fact-checking and commenting on that.

[@HarperSanchez]

You believe the Russians now?

[@GBGB000]

He said two dozen, not two thousand. The overall point is stupid, though.

[@tonymiranda39]

He's point does hold that a legitimate threat to the power structure of the Russian government was there, a well trained militia vs jan 6 a bunch of Karen's and fat dudes on Trump's diet plan....

[@Rob-qn8ed]

Two words - Russian and wikipedia. This is your source of truth?

[@kaykwanu]

🎯 Key Takeaways for quick navigation: 00:00 🏛️ *The debate focuses on whether the events of January 6th constituted an insurrection.* 01:23 📺 *Video evidence shows thousands outside the Capitol, engaging in violence.* 02:05 💬 *Greenwald argues that the scale of violence on January 6th doesn't meet the threshold for an insurrection.* 18:40 🚨 *Destiny refutes the notion that the January 6th events weren't a serious threat, pointing out the potential consequences if the situation had escalated further.* 21:00 📉 *Destiny argues that a specific percentage of violence is needed to classify an event as an insurrection or coup, but Greenwald believes such terms lack fixed definitions and depend on perspective and context.* 22:22 🧩 *Greenwald argues that the January 6 events did not pose a significant threat due to the lack of numbers and organization among participants, comparing it to historical events like the Vagner Rebellion in Russia.* 25:26 🗳️ *Destiny highlights the historic significance of the January 6 event, being the first time the certification of electoral votes was delayed due to protesters, challenging the notion of minimal disruption.* 30:49 🤔 *Destiny uses "Loki's wager" to counter Greenwald's argument about the scale of the event, suggesting that the magnitude of an insurrection should not be downplayed based on comparisons with more extreme events.* 33:35 🔍 *Greenwald emphasizes the importance of historical comparisons to contextualize events like January 6, questioning the authenticity of narratives that align with partisan agendas without historical precedent.* 38:44 📜 *Jack Smith, an aggressive prosecutor, did not charge Donald Trump with inciting or participating in an insurrection, suggesting it would be difficult to prove.* 41:58 💼 *Despite Jack Smith's prosecutorial aggressiveness, no prosecutor, including Smith, accused Trump of inciting or participating in an insurrection, raising questions about the feasibility of proving such charges.* 43:34 🤔 *Historical precedent shows that individuals were not charged with insurrection even in significant events like the Civil War, indicating that lack of charges does not negate the occurrence of an insurrection.* 45:10 🗡️ *Trump's failure to utilize executive powers to perpetrate a coup, like commanding the military, suggests his intent wasn't insurrectionary but rather aimed at delaying the certification of election results.* 49:07 🧐 *Trump's inaction during the Capitol riot, despite having authority and responsibility, raises questions about his intentions, indicating his focus may have been on delaying the certification of the election results rather than staging a coup.* 55:40 🧠 *Glenn Greenwald emphasizes the ease of peacefully dispersing the Capitol protesters after three hours, highlighting the event's absurdity.* 57:59 💬 *Glenn Greenwald argues against comparing the Bolivia election controversy to Trump's fraud claims, emphasizing the differences in the allegations.* 01:00:33 🔍 *Destiny presses Glenn Greenwald on how the Capitol rioters gained entry, emphasizing their use of force to break in despite police resistance.* 01:01:17 🤔 *Destiny challenges Glenn Greenwald on the casualty count of the Capitol riot, highlighting the absence of deaths directly caused by rioters.* 01:10:07 🔍 *Greenwald questions the severity of the Capitol riot threat, contrasting it with historical coup attempts and emphasizing the lack of meaningful danger posed by the rioters.* 01:12:44 📺 *Greenwald challenges the portrayal of January 6th as a clear-cut event, highlighting nuances in police conduct and media coverage.* 01:13:54 🗣️ *Pelosi's rejection of Republican nominees for the January 6th commission is discussed, with accusations of partisanship from both sides.* 01:15:21 💬 *Greenwald argues that Pelosi's commission choices were partisan, while Destiny defends the rejection of certain Republican nominees.* 01:16:44 💼 *Greenwald criticizes Pelosi for rejecting Republican commission nominees, stating it undermined bipartisanship.* 01:17:10 🔍 *Greenwald accuses the January 6th commission of crafting a narrative filled with lies and selective video footage.* 01:19:36 🔥 *Debate intensifies as Greenwald and Destiny clash over the significance of video footage showing police guiding protesters inside the Capitol.* 01:22:48 💡 *Greenwald argues that most Capitol protesters were nonviolent, challenging the portrayal of January 6th as a grave threat to democracy.* 01:26:28 🧠 *Greenwald and Destiny debate whether January 6th constitutes an insurrection, highlighting differing interpretations of events.* 01:29:34 🏛️ *Trump's supporters went to the Capitol on Jan 6 as he directed, aiming to disrupt the certification of the vote.* 01:31:12 🗣️ *Destiny emphasizes the importance of analyzing the entirety of Trump's speech and subsequent actions, suggesting they incited violence and attempted to subvert the electoral process.* 01:32:49 🚨 *Destiny argues that Trump's failure to immediately call off the rioters and deploy the National Guard demonstrates his culpability in the events of Jan 6.* 01:39:13 💬 *Greenwald questions why, if Trump intended an insurrection, he publicly urged for peaceful protest and later told rioters to go home.* 01:45:59 💬 *Greenwald highlights the State Department's labeling of events in other countries as coups and insurrections, suggesting a long history of such terminology use.* 01:47:08 🧐 *Greenwald argues against trivializing terms like "insurrection" by examining historical context beyond the Trump era.* 01:48:30 💡 *Greenwald distinguishes between political protests causing delays and genuine attempts at undermining power.* 01:49:39 🤔 *Destiny questions the motive behind the January 6 protest, suggesting it aimed to dispute the election outcome.* 01:51:57 🔍 *Greenwald references historical rebellions and protests to contextualize discussions about insurrection and coup attempts.* 01:55:28 📜 *Greenwald presents Trump's legal actions post-election as a recourse within the American democratic framework.* 01:59:38 🤷 *Destiny argues that a failed coup still constitutes a coup, regardless of its outcome, while dissecting legal arguments and intentions behind Trump's actions.* 02:03:11 🏛️ *Legal advice from reputable lawyers is relevant in determining criminal intent.* 02:05:43 🔍 *Trump pursued legal recourses and peacefully left office after exhausting them.* 02:07:22 🔒 *Not all crimes require mens rea (intent), but it's crucial in many prosecutions.* 02:09:41 🗽 *Trump likely would have left office even if legal proceedings delayed certification.* 02:12:01 📜 *Trump's request to DOJ about election fraud evidence depends on intent.* 02:13:25 📢 *Trump's responsibility for Jan 6th is a matter of debate; he may bear some moral responsibility.* 02:15:20 ⚖️ *Speeches inciting violence may have legal protection under free speech unless directly inciting violence.* 02:17:56 🤔 *Trump's belief in election fraud could stem from various factors, including distrust in the establishment.* 02:19:50 🧠 *Greenwald and others suggest Trump genuinely believed in election fraud, despite evidence to the contrary.* 02:20:45 🔍 *The persistence of Trump's claims of election fraud, despite lack of majority support and contrary evidence, suggests strong psychological incentives for his belief.* 02:21:15 🎯 *Dispositive proof is rare in understanding someone's state of mind, relying more on circumstantial evidence.* 02:22:39 💬 *Evidence that could change opinions includes a confession or lack of surrounding support for claims of fraud.* 02:24:47 🔥 *Discussion highlights tactics of deflection and obfuscation in political debates.* 02:28:16 🤯 *Greenwald's claim that the attack on Fort Sumter was only an insurrection in hindsight is heavily criticized as absurd.* 02:29:15 💡 *Challenging Greenwald's criteria for evidence, particularly his reluctance to criticize Trump's actions or beliefs.* 02:33:32 🤔 *Greenwald's avoidance of directly criticizing Trump's actions indicates a lack of good faith in the debate.* 02:34:54 🗣️ *Greenwald's selective interpretation of Trump's statements and actions is highlighted, pointing out inconsistencies and bias.* 02:36:17 💡 *Destiny questions why select footage was released to specific media, suggesting a lack of good faith in transparency.* 02:36:43 🤔 *Destiny challenges the significance of releasing footage after the Capitol breach, questioning what it aims to prove.* 02:37:27 💬 *Destiny criticizes repetitive arguments from Glenn Greenwald, highlighting the lack of substantial response to key points.* 02:38:51 💬 *Destiny emphasizes the importance of owning positions outright instead of vague justifications, criticizing evasive responses.* 02:39:32 🧠 *Destiny critiques Glenn Greenwald for associating him with arguments he didn't make, pointing out inconsistencies in his reasoning.* Made with HARPA AI

[@william32811]

the mod seriously didnt do his job

[@Gimped13]

I just want some water for the weeds. They're so dried out. Please. These sweeping generalizations are sucking out all the substance.

[@garywebb2432]

Glenn Greenwald is a master debater lmaoo he took the art of pivoting and became the damn Gym Leader

[@Catokawaii]

Bro's a boxer the way he dodges those questions.

[@TransKidsMafia]

out of my nine young kids one came out as cis. We’re putting him up for adoption.

[@garywebb2432]

@@TransKidsMafia L parenting then

[@chinchillatwitch7234]

​@@TransKidsMafiawhat the fuck are talking about. Stay on topic

[@100AcreWoodz1]

​@@chinchillatwitch7234 dude is the jaws 3d of online trolling.

[@phoenixfire8226]

another embarrassing one for destiny. the moment he called greenwald a partisan hack was the biggest oops. lol literally everyone knows, and i think destiny even admits, he's the biggest democratic establishment partisan hack on youtube. rich.

[@jonathanwilliams1641]

The "biggest democratic establishment partisan hack on youtube." Wow. That is maybe the craziest comment in this entire comment section.

[@Extracredittttt]

He rips into democrats and "the left" literally constantly and he wears his values and biases in his sleeves. He obviously thinks Democrats are fundamentally better than Republicans, but this is a low bar Greenwald is also one of the *most* famous partisan hacks in the country. He is almost universally recognized for this

[@zohare9028]

I think it's ridiculous for the definition of insurrection to require being incited by armed forces in this day and age. Using those means to cause a coup or insurrection would be disastrous for any large country, or for the people inciting it.

[@mcbean1]

@33:58 Oh please, lets not act like if this had been Dems opposing trump's election in 2016, Reps would not be 100% on board with saying it was an insurrection

[@ForOrAgainstUs]

Not that they wouldn't hop aboard an already moving train but... You familiar with the May 29 riots when Trump and family were moved by the secret service to a security bunker?

[@SlackerMagician]

They literally said he was an illegitimate president installed by putin for 4 years but ok

[@MrGgabber]

They did. Multiple Democrats tried to get Biden to refuse to certify 2016. Jamie Raskin even petitioned for alternate electors

[@SlackerMagician]

Dems said Trump was illegitimate and installed by putin for 4 years and republicans never called it an insurrection

[@mcbean1]

@@SlackerMagician Do you think just saying something is the same as inciting people to riot?

[@archietech5495]

Destiny should have just jumped to the other side of the screen and debated himself cuz good ole Glenn came to the stage ill prepared

[@cringemeariver5266]

You are black bud, your opinion is worth nothing.

[@itskastrand]

i cant wait for the debate breakdown video from that one editor guy. they’re so much fun to watch. it’s like a 40k battle report

[@tunnelsloth5948]

Who?

[@ignotuscapillary8313]

​@@tunnelsloth5948 On destiny's second channel there are some videos breaking down his previous debates. They can be pretty informative and help to keep track of everyone's arguments and how people either counter or fail to counter certain points.

[@Horsenado1776]

Glenn contradicts himself. He says that his words stand for himself when Destiny brings up historical analysis then proceeds to talk about this not meeting the definition of a coup or insurrection based on historical analysis. Double-think Glenn!

[@JudasMaccabeus1]

It’s what happens when the main goal is to defend an ideology or narrative rather than the truth

[@exiledhebrew1994]

@@JudasMaccabeus1I think you guys are just misunderstanding what he’s saying. If the events of January 6th were truly not an insurrection; then his words do stand on themselves. You don’t have to go Machiavellian to explain basic logic

[@brandonfreeman6517]

Destiny does too

[@thoughtmocker]

there is a lot about glen that i appreciate and like.... .. on this however, he is so incredibly daft..

[@Pustul]

Another point I wish Destiny made is that while it’s obvious that a few thousands people will not overthrow the government of the USA by themselves, their goal was to prevent the counting of the votes and to incite Pence and other politicians not to certify the election which could ultimately result in a coup.

[@LizStaples]

The Oathkeepers/Proud Boy ect alliance, used the crowd to gain entry and as cover. They had planned to catch Pence or other Congress people and aides hold them hostage. Once they had hostages they would call their reinforcements to distribute weapons cached nearby to the crowd and hold the capital till Trump could be installed. When they failed to secure hostages the whole plan fell apart but that doesn’t change that the plan was there and they tried to implement it.

[@mikeb1596]

They wanted a 10 day investigation before certification. Conveniently, the fake pipe bomb is what caused the evacuation from the chambers(not the protesters), which immediately forced an emergency session to eventually take place which eliminated the chance for an investigation.

[@russellwest8767]

Does prigozhins rebellion even meet Glenn’s criteria? I could have sworn he never stated explicitly that he wanted to get rid of Putin, and it also quickly failed

[@LoudWaffle]

No, and it also only caused the deaths of 15-31 people (the Russian side, as usual, gives conflicting numbers). Couldn't have been an insurrection if the casualty numbers were that low, considering the amount of people involved.

[@thatshadowguy1005]

No, and neither would the Whiskey Rebellion, nor Fort Sumpter in-and-of itself. It's clear he's purposefully inflating his standards just to defend his position. In hindsight, J6 didn't achieve much, and Glenn latches onto this to downplay it as much as possible. He HAS to, or else he might lose his coveted "Most Anti-Establishment Guy Ever" award.

[@swickens930]

You literally don't have to state that you want to "get rid of Putin" for an insurrection to occur. You need paper trails proving that Prigozhin was raising an army, planning attacks, training militia directly, meetings that occured between foot troops and leadership, etc. Otherwise it's not an insurrection. Insurrections usually take years, or even decades of planning, and this is usually backed by paper trails and factual meetings and planning events. The Whiskey Rebellion was an ongoing rebellion for 3 years, and only like 5-10 people got charged for treason and they only got charged because they were literally on the ground at the scene shooting at federal agents. The people were revolting over taxes, not because they "wanted to get rid of George Washington."

[@MisterS.]

He keeps saying that it was "squashed", but Prigozhin ordered his men to stand down after negotiations involving Lukashenko

[@georgekolton9059]

Lost major respect for delusional Greenwald...at least on this matter. He nauseatingly keeps mentioning how the transfer of power was "only delayed by a miniscule and irrelevant 3 hours". It was "only" 3 hours because the insurrections failed in what they wanted to accomplish. Not because that "little" delay was all they wanted. The various chants going on tell us what they would've done, if they had succeeded. Greenwald misses that point and is basically saying that someone shouldn't be locked up for trying to kill somebody, because their aim was bad and the bullet missed.

[@StinkCabbage]

Excellent comment 👌

[@thulyblu5486]

You had respect for a lawyers' arguments before?!

[@GovnaBuckingham]

did they forget to bring guns?

[@sorrymyenglishbad2535]

@@thulyblu5486Probably had respect for a Pulitzer prize winner.

[@georgekolton9059]

@@thulyblu5486 Greenwald does have a very good take on the Israel - Gaza situation and has done it justice in debates.

[@robertotrevino1796]

Destiny killed this guy his talking point made no sense at all

[@gianthills]

he made no sense, or you just didn't understand?

[@Ez.bake_evan]

I would really like to see and have Destiny’s debate notes

[@bonko86]

Glenns only point in this entire video was just "only a few people used violence", he just repeated the same point regardless of the point they were talking about

[@GovnaBuckingham]

Thinking Trump intentionally tried a coup by just saying his supporters should go protest at the capital while making 0 other preparations is peak autism

[@StinkCabbage]

​@@GovnaBuckinghamYeah and I guess in your reality submitting false slates of electors is a huge nothingburger as well?

[@stevegreen6086]

You truly believe 1000’s of people went to an “insurrection” yet miraculously forgot their firearms? FFS you people are brain dead

[@k45207]

25:31 this is such a good point. You can’t define a rebellion by its chances of success.

[@justaperson8144]

Rebellion..... Insurrection...?! Are we parsing semantics? Additionally, is that reality? In other words, if I can play word games better than you...am I inherently supposedly more "valid"? I love words, games with words (crossword puzzles...etc), and to be clear, just like the propagandists.... I'm good at it. I have chosen not to use my gift for evil... not everyone does. To be clear, some do... So...my premise would be, the VAST majority... you know those elderly folks and even some 40ish people being swept up in the notion that "hey, I guess we can go in " does not by any measure qualify an INSURRECTION. Lol. No guns, "from the supposed GUN NUTS"....are you kidding me? Nope. No how, no way.

[@k45207]

@@justaperson8144 sounds like you have strong feelings about this 😂 you can call it word games if you want. But I think defining it based on the chances of success especially in hindsight is a bad argue. Because a majority of rebellion and insurrections do have a low percentage of success they are almost always the underdog. Look at the American revolution on paper most people are putting their money on the British. If it didn’t succeed would it not still be call a rebellion or insurrection?

[@justaperson8144]

@@k45207 Unsure...are claiming they were successful or are you claiming I was unsuccessful in proving the OBVIOUS.

[@k45207]

@@justaperson8144 not trying to be rude , but your question was worded weird. If I understand what your asking, I’m saying whether or not it was successful it can still be a rebellion or insurrection. No definition of either word entails that it has to have been successful for it to be defined as that action. Also you saying “I guess we can go in” is a huge misrepresentation of what actually happened. You make it sound like they were on some guided tour of the facility 😂

[@bonko86]

@@justaperson8144 these were certainly all words

[@radi.]

This video could have been 5 min instead of both sides repeating the same thing for nearly 3 hours.

[@Sacredsnow2]

I'm not against gun control but I LOVE how republicans will say "if you take away our guns we'll have outrageous knife violence like the UK." but "people standing outside congress with knives protesting is silly"

[@PinwheelNation]

Greenwald's smug, passive-aggressive demeanor is very annoying so I will thoroughly enjoy watching him get steamrolled here.

[@mickyd5009]

It was a good debate

[@chadstephens3640]

Destiny is as smug as Glen 😮 he has one of the most annoying voices on KZbin. He's always reading his chat gtp notes for his arguments 😂

[@P0sitive_vibes_0nly]

Destiny: 4K Greenwald: 1080 HD Eli: 8 Bits

[@CribNotes]

Destiny: Plane geometry Greenwald: Non-Euclidean geometry. Eli: 8 Bits

[@antg-zu1zj]

Destiny fans : 🤓🐑🤡💩 Greenwald: 🧠🫀👊🏽🔥

[@sitonmuhdeckasshole]

Greenwald is a proud latino man@@antg-zu1zj

[@kingcosmuder8078]

@@antg-zu1zjanyone who unironcially calls Glenn smart is a massive fool

[@antg-zu1zj]

@@kingcosmuder8078 anyone who unironically simps for Destiny is a massive cringe bot

[@mordakie3805]

Glenn lost ..he was going in circles .he had one talking point and kept going back to it

[@josephmotherheehee]

Amen, felt like I was in an acid loop.

[@Yang-ob4lk]

I was laughing hard staring at Eli's dead fish stare at the centre of the screen, when I noticed that he is in fact wearing a jacket in the exact same gray as his sweatshirt

[@coolroxas]

Yo all the TDS fans in here saying destiny is TDS. Lets be clear, destiny has never been to, worked or associated with The Daily Show. Though he may have enjoyed it when Jon Stewart was on.

[@Godfrey544]

Didn’t he come back?

[@coolroxas]

@Godfrey544 starting Feb only on Mondays yes😂

[@mikem4481]

the left cant meme...

[@coolroxas]

@mikem4481 Hey, you're that one guy^ hi that one guy

[@seankenny1275]

the correct guy@@coolroxas

[@SultanDesync]

For a man who married a man, Glenn sure likes Mike Johnson. I mean, it's not unusual for people to have self destructive political attachments, but it's strikes me as a special kind of class betrayal.

[@adriangaranzuay8713]

I like how you're showing this on your own channel and highlighting your own points.

[@Atrocities85]

Literally not an insurrection, literally.

[@Chris-il5im]

August cooked sth special for us today folks! We really appreciate you buddy.

[@PoachStevens]

I needed to see Glenn Greenwald get a back-hand like this, pretty much since he left the independent. He caught several today. I was a fan before, now I’m just glad you exist. Even though Destiny is a girls name.

[@mattsreptileroom]

Lmfao, are you kidding?! Destiny got embarrassed

[@hansgullickson4080]

His fans do t think so. Lol

[@user-el4su7tl6f]

U mean "the intercept"? Not the independent

[@Chronoboost_]

@@mattsreptileroom Anyone would be embarrassed in Destiny's scenario. He's debating an imbecile. I would feel like it was such a waste of my time. Glenn Greenwald COULD be embarrassed, but he lacks social awareness.

[@georgekolton9059]

@@mattsreptileroom You have it backwards. Greenwald made one ridiculous claim after another, failing badly at explaining how an obvious coup wasn't a real coup....because not the correct number of people died... because 2 thousand wasn't "thousands"... because Trump left peacefully AFTER the fact... because Trump did nothing to get things under control for "an hour" which was actually more than 3 hours....bla bla BS.... Greenwald went down in flames. Period.

[@JankeyCreator]

I really dont know why yall have these debates without watching the video. Like it is so clear that these folks were battling their way into to capital and from pushing barricades and fighting with police and then breaking windows and fighting their way into the building. It is so easy to see it.

[@ddubya4097]

There was no debate on this. Both sides agreed this happened

[@Dubinski2382]

The barricades were pushed before Trump even finished speaking.

[@colinbickford3470]

There are also videos showing in other parts of the building that they were not violent and did not force they’re way in and we’re waved in by capital police and one door that had a magnetic lock all of a sudden unlocked and also videos that showed capital police walking around with people that entered the building.

[@JankeyCreator]

I didn't ask for your opinion @colinbickford3470. Start your own thread.

[@parjau4554]

This was an interesting debate and to a casual listener, someone with a mild manner will always appear to lose a debate with Destiny because he talks fast and is always looking out for 'gotcha' moments. However, I do not believe for a second that Jan 6th was an "Insurrection". That was a term concocted to produce an emotional response. It was a riot, and an unarmed one at that.

[@meteorwalkergg]

Finally, a disagreement substantiated with an actual argument. I disagree with you but I completely see where you're coming from (unlike Glenn Greenwald)

[@Darm0k]

Glenn's entire argument just sounds like "Trump is a sweet innocent boy, he would never do anything bad."

[@rousseaufishing3795]

I love how coup means asshole in Portuguese and Greenwald keeps saying it around Brazilians who don't speak English

[@ScreamingSturmovik]

the more i see of this the more i relate to the system that was implemented in S1 ep5 of the Justice League