Inside Tabletop - Let's talk about the 2023-24 GW Annual Report

[@03dashk64]

My favorite new co-host….the coffee cup. Really steals the show

[@steeldrac]

I'm not nostalgic for Warmachine, but for how much I enjoyed myself gaming 15 years ago...

[@GuerrillaMiniatureGames]

That’s a perfect way of looking at it!

[@efaun-g3p]

So well put.

[@ericfarrington366]

As a former small-business owner, I love it when you guys talk business. HAWT! 😍

[@theandf]

One assumption that seems to go implicit in all this discussion of GW's business acumen (which I believe they have!) is that the "subscription" model of gaming is good for players. GW successfully ported the world of software's model -- where games have "licenses" and servers on which they run, and the publisher/dev can very well stop supporting them after a while, or force you patch it if you want to keep playing -- to the world of physical toys, which was normally impervious to it. Nobody ever thought old boardgames were no longer playable just because they are old, but somehow GW successfully implemented a 4 (or whatever) lifecycle to physical, tangible things. It's really amazing to me, and how players take it in stride. I'd be appalled! Plastic toys (and rules) are not perishables. Reaching new customers should be their (more ethical) goal, instead of milking existing customers for all they are worth, selling the same codex and game again and again and again. Because seriously, how many editions of essentially the same game can there be? 2 or 3, maybe 4? Surely not 10+! I believe at this point if GW could design miniatures that melt away after 5 years, they would.

[@Khorzho]

Regarding the comments about generational influence and how it relates to the 10th edition release: I'm a 32 year veteran of 40k who has 11 armies (and working on a 12th). I also have two teenage boys, one who has three armies and one who has a single army. Many of these armies are 'complete', but many aren't. I'm also far enough in my career to be able to afford supporting a new version with all these armies, and my kids are entering the workplace soon - and will also have some income to contribute to the hobby. The two kids, myself, my older brother and friend I've known for decades constitutes our little group. I can tell you right now, the hype for 10th was non-existent for us. Why? Because 9th was *barely* done being released and they flushed the whole Codex suite with indexes. Additionally, we don't care for many of the significant changes to the core rules for 10th. Indeed, GW has reversed course on some of the core rules already. And after review - we just decided to keep still playing 9th as a group. This has led to me cutting WAY back on spending money on the hobby. So far in 10th, I've bought the main rule book and two Codices, and a couple sheets of decals from GW. That's it. I honestly believe GW will have profitability rollercoasters until they make a solid consistent game system. They need to make a core system that is playable from small squads to massive Apocalypse settings, and one that can allow the hobbyists to customize their experiences, rather than chasing a meta. Changing the rules every 3 to 4 years is exhausting and unsustainable for us, as well as the market. Fortunately, 9th was pretty much complete enough that we're happy just to keep on with it until maybe 11th, or 12th, or who knows.... till I'm no longer a voyager on this mortal coil.

[@christophergough5366]

Middle Earth Strategy Battle game is exactly what you describe. The rules for Aragorn haven’t changed in 20 years! The game is near-perfect. It also has a significant hard-core competitive player base. Why on earth they can’t replicate that success with 40k I cannot guess.

[@tinyfishhobby3138]

Changing the rules every 3 to 4 years is why I don’t buy 40k or Age of Sigmar rulebooks anymore. I have little enough time as it is, I can’t keep up with the constant new rule sets anymore.

[@AngryAcolyte]

I only started in 8th but loved 8th and 9th. I feel like 10th edition gutted a lot of the roleplay elements and fluffy rules in favour of a stripped back competitive rule set that tailors to a specific crowd of tournament players. I ended up selling my armies and I’m on the AoS hype train now. I love how unique each faction is and the gameplay is much more interactive. I still love the 40k universe but won’t play the game for now.

[@UnkaStunka]

10ed is a sub par game played since RT, 9ed is the best edition if you do not count 2ed which is my favourite. However quit 10ed and GW cant get me excited anymore, their new stuff is far to simplistic and non emerging. Im back to playing Warmachine now, it is leauges more interesting gameplay wise. Check out Warmachine mk4 if you like good games. Cheers!

[@Khorzho]

@@AngryAcolyte Completely accurate take imho. A shame too.

[@danfocke]

In my opinion, one of the biggest reasons to make the Amazon show an original show is that no matter what people will say they messed up the story if they go with an existing story. The classic "the book was better". So many of those stories are so loved the show will have a very hard time living up to expectations. There is plenty of room in the 40k universe for new stories.

[@marccaron6008]

I'm no longer playing any original IP or licenced IP wargames. I only play agnostic rule sets like Fistful of Lead (and all its variants) and solo wargames like 2d Delves. Far less expensive and I get to play with the minis I already own. In June, we played a four-player game of Galactic Heroes (FoL) with my painted Aristeia minis. Great fun!

[@Havok448]

Great show again.

[@jamespeterson9620]

I have thousands of dollars of warmahordes rotting in my house and I am zero percent nostalgic for it.

[@stargazingkiwi]

Was a great level headed chat. Thanks!

[@VetBodGaming]

I love these but I also need some more grimdark media soon

[@zakov4155]

I love content like this i can enjoy while mowing the lawn, thanks Ash!

[@cgordon13]

While Fallout, The Boys, and Invincible were successful adaptations for Amazon, they're about 50/50. Halo, Wheel of Time, and Rings of Power are not great.

[@GuerrillaMiniatureGames]

Halo was Paramount! But I agree WoT and RoP weren’t as adept at introducing new audiences to the worlds

[@tinyfishhobby3138]

Wheel of Time is absolutely terrible. They had such a great reference in the first book - The Eye of the World - and all they had to do was faithfully adapt it to the tv show. Instead, they made fundamental changes to the worldbuilding that are central and critical to the entire plot of the story, and it’s a huge tangled mess of a show.

[@christophergough5366]

@@tinyfishhobby3138 but, if you’d never read the books, would you enjoy it? I had never heard of it, really enjoyed the show and now, having turned to the books, found them quite underwhelming and a bit generic.

[@tinyfishhobby3138]

@@christophergough5366 I can’t answer that question objectively. I’ve been reading and invested in the Wheel of Time since high school in the mid 90’s so it’s impossible for me to view the show in any form without seeing it through the lens of what the books are. If I HAD to give an answer, ironically I would say something similar to what you just did - that I might find it a bit underwhelmed and generic, because as far as fantasy goes, the tv show(to me) reads as a bit too “generic fantasy”. I don’t know… apparently there are enough people watching it to have gotten a 3rd season, so maybe it’s doing something right. It just isn’t MY Wheel of Time.

[@mikefish1124]

@@christophergough5366 Indeed. I'm nearly 50, and was reading fantasy novels when they were originally published, and really...I have no idea why people enjoy Robert Jordan so much. Honestly it's completely baffling as the books are so "mid" (as the kids are saying these days, lol)

[@8BitJesus]

I came back to this video while I'm eating my lunch, I thought my glasses were dirty until I realised it's the coffee cups fault haha

[@HandofBlake]

Currently I am enjoying Legions Imperialis. Love the epic scale so much more for the Grim Dark future.

[@shanesunday298]

I can’t remember the last codex I purchased for 9th edition as it was just released, only for tenth to come along months later and make my purchase a waste of money. I feel GW has outgrown me.

[@chadnine3432]

I'm glad GW are doing well. But since they priced me out of their product, leaned into FOMO, and continue to have issues with stock, I'm no longer a customer. Maybe once in a while I'll dip my toe back in, but not seriously and not to buy armies or codexes.

[@darkfuture3291]

Great conversation. Thank you:)

[@loser7829]

ive missed these, thx ash and chris

[@elfmastercool4734]

How was the coffee, CHRIS??? Was it GOOD??? 🙃

[@onehandedman8894]

I personally cant wait for the war machine renaissance, or warnaissance, times

[@euansmith3699]

Hordenaissance!

[@masonmcelroy8125]

I have spent a lot of money on GW products over the years. I didn't spend any money on GW this past year. I have almost no interest in 40k anymore. It's kind of sad, but the old "spirit" of 40k seems like it's dead. Everything is so "smooth" and "corporate approved". It's a completely different IP now than it was 10 years ago. Of course, based on the sales I guess there are a lot of people don't share my feelings. I also suspect a lot of the people buying things are newer players. But I don't have data to back that up.

[@supermarx]

I've come back (to buying minis at least) in the last year, played a lot of 2nd edition and the various 90s specialist games, gave up after a few games of 3rd edition, eventually sold everything, but things like the rogue trader kill team and some of the sculpts on the underworlds warbands brought me back.

[@cavalcojj]

I'm nostalgic for Warmachine. My wife and I bought each other our favorite armies new box sets for each others birthdays. I've always loved their miniatures and have bought a ton of resale models. But I don't think Warmachine is going to come back with vengeance unless SFG really makes some changes to the sales and gameplay model. Personally I think the app is awful and they need to go back to cards. They also need to balance rules first before printing a ton of miniatures with wonky powers. We shall see.

[@mikefish1124]

Why is the app awful? I really enjoy using it, personally

[@UnkaStunka]

App is super useful, balance between the new armies are good, sure Dusk is pwerful but you will not beat a better opponent with another of the new armies. Play testing seems very solid. But yeah stuff like the pig need to not be a thing.

[@epicdiestudio73]

im only 10 minutes in, but Chris looks crisp and clear, and Ash seems fuzzy...Some camera issue or my eyes are continuing to fail as I get old? Good stuff so far =)

[@JC-gv6sq]

Same, camera looks out of focus

[@euansmith3699]

There is a subtitle early on explaining that Chris "sabotaged" the video by putting his coffee down in a spot where Ash's camera focused on the Tim Horton's cup rather than Ash's face. 🤓👍

[@epicdiestudio73]

cool, thank you I totally missed that. Went back and saw it.

[@griffitaj]

0 faith in amazon after rings of power

[@Wonko-bj4jx]

Anyone have a link to Chris' youtube channel?

[@JimCrimmins]

youtube.com/@lordsofwargamesandhobbies3905?si=TKMkN0A4O0xe49Te

[@thelonelybolter8245]

www.youtube.com/@lordsofwargamesandhobbies3905

[@chrisslye8125]

KZbin.com/LordsofWarGamesandHobbies I think....

[@Gilchester]

@@chrisslye8125 i got a 404 for this link

[@misomiso8228]

Great episode Didn't mind the focus at all! Just on heroquest - I know you're planning on doing it again, but PLEASE if you do start on the newer expansions. We've seen the original quest book already, and KEllars Keep and Return of the Witchlord are just very samey. On the other hand the newer Quests are amazing! The Jungle one and the Moon one are so good! Looking forward to it Ash!

[@JeromeCarns]

My ongoing reaction to what GW does; as a shareholder I love it, but as a gamer I wonder why, when I'm nearing the peak of my own earnings, I still find GW to be expensive.

[@crann777]

You silly canucks and your love of Tim Hortons ruin everything. *takes a bite from a Sheetz hot dog*

[@jwheatca]

I’m waiting on Pariah Nexus tournament pack cards. I don’t understand how GW can under forecast something like that so badly. The margin on cards must be great and since we can’t get them we just ended up making our own.

[@asuranshadow9491]

Would definitely be nice to see more free rules from gw, like most of the rest of the industry....

[@euansmith3699]

"The guy Henry Cavil wishes he could be." 😄😄😄👍

[@PapaWargamer]

Watching you blurred make me even more excited for listening to you. 😂 ... (Joke)

[@stijncallant457]

I thought Microsoft had the license for the BattleTech video games.

[@GuerrillaMiniatureGames]

They do, it’s a whole spiderweb of who owns what and who’s paying royalties to who since FASA dissolved

[@lorcannagle]

It's not even has the license, Microsoft bought FASA Studios in the late 90s, which gave them all of Crimson Skies, and the computer game rights to BattleTech and Shadowrun. When FASA wound down their publishing arm Wizkids bought BattleTech and Shadowrun, and in turn were bought by Topps. When Topps shut down Wizkids they transferred the BattleTech and Shadowrun ownership to themselves, and then sold off the rest of Wizkids to NECA. Topps was owned by Michael Eisner, and when he sold them to Fanatics he transferred the BattleTech and Shadowrun TV and movie rights to his IP management company Tornante. Microsoft seem to have not renewed any copyrights on Crimson Skies outside of the computer game sphere, and FASA Games might be working on a new tabletop version but nothing is confirmed.

[@darnokx9277]

Amazon better not does a "Rings of Power" with the GW IP. We'll just have to wait and see.

[@merylstrep5933]

In regard to the zero mention of tournaments and gameplay, is this a different form of Kirby-ran GW?

[@GuerrillaMiniatureGames]

Actually it is. The last four years of Tom running the company was when Warhammer Community began and they led with coverage of things like the old-format Games Days. Some would argue that ‘Duncan Rhodes, Ed, et all’ early era was a very charming time. That investment was actually something they talked about quite a bit.

[@HandofBlake]

Tournament play ruined 40K/AoS for me. That and a new edition of the game every 5 minutes is just annoying at this point.

[@8BitJesus]

I'm only 9 minutes in, so apologies if this has been answered, but do you see any consequences from GW front loading their sales. Sure, they're making money by making retailers take on more stock, but if that stock doesn't sell, or the stores close, as external financial factors kick in - that would have a knock on effect for GW, or do you think they've future-proofed their strategy?

[@GuerrillaMiniatureGames]

I think what happens is what Chris mentioned with more conservative ordering. Dominion definitely led to more conservative orders of Leviathan, which led to more conservative orders of Skaventide for his shop and a lot of the other locals here. If you can still order that box on their website that says a lot.

[@8BitJesus]

@@GuerrillaMiniatureGames brings back memories of the “limited edition” escape from goblin town for LOTRSBG, it was still available up until the new edition haha

[@atragonx7939]

"broad appeal?" Pun intended? 😂

[@HB2K-h8m]

How do these excellent erudite shows only get 20k viewers and yet some idiot spouts off about the Amazon show being cancelled and wokery ending GW gets about 200k? Make it make sense...

[@GuerrillaMiniatureGames]

If you can answer that you can solve most of our social problems overnight hahaha

[@manuelrabago6243]

Hi Ash, now with the IP of Warmachine in hands of Steamforged Games, do you think you will return? I remember how much you loved this game and miss your batreps.

[@FKaps16]

Hey Ash! Please be careful when you talk about the figures in the annual report, because I’m afraid most of the numbers you gave are incorrect, and therefore probably you are arriving to the wrong conclusions: - GW’s profit did not grow by 50 million GBP, but by 31.6 million (Operating Profit, in millions: 201.8 (2024), 170.2 (2023)). The revenue did grow by approx. 50 million GBP, but revenue and profit are completely different things. - 30 million of 2024’s profit growth is NOT licensing. Licensing just grew by 5 million (Licensing operating profit, in millions: 27 (2024), 22 (2023)). So it represents just a 15.8% of the growth in profits this year (as opposed to the 40% that you say in the video). - Licensing brought 27 out of the 201.8 mil. in profit this year (13.3%). It is not insignificant, but it is much less important than you seem to give it credit for. GW is still extremely profitable without it, and it is really far from being one of the main drivers of the company’s growth. Hope it helps clear things up :)

[@8BitJesus]

Do you think WHTV is dead now? Like it started off ok, but I've subbed for about half the time but it just seems like it's a "you get access to the 40k/AoS app, and oh, we've got this thing in the background, it's amazing or so I've been told to say" It doesn't really seem to have grown really

[@GuerrillaMiniatureGames]

It was an audition to get into talks with Amazon. I’m betting they’re banking content in the background for it and it will eventually become a subscription option inside their ecosystem too.

[@8BitJesus]

@@GuerrillaMiniatureGames ah, that's a good shout! I always wondered why it just petered out, and they've not really pushed it

[@it05y25]

I find it odd how dismissive you guys are about licensing. The IP is the most valuable thing GW owns. There's a reason the stock is down 10% this year. They've not monitised their IP as well as people think. The plastic crack company acts closer to a gambling firm than anything else. A high % of their models is supported by a tiny % customers. This feeds into the IP valuations they've seen the rise and fall of legion bases of poor performance of films/media... Lot to ride on nothing concrete. Atm the stock is super dependant on the success of SM2 and the amazon deal.

[@GuerrillaMiniatureGames]

We’re not dismissive of it; in fact we’re both pretty confident this is where they’re entirely positioning the company to move to. The question is that when that happens, what will be left of the originally company?

[@it05y25]

@@GuerrillaMiniatureGames So ive been a shareholder since Kate Marsh was appointed and have no intention to sell based on the current annual report. As far as I see it there are two avenues of growth. 1. The Asian expansion. 2. IP driving growth. The expanding of GW to Korea and hopefully beyond is pretty self explanatory so we'll skip. The IP while valuable in itself what does that mean for the future of the company? Well currently most new customers are recruited in GW stores. It seems to me the obvious next step is a similar approach to Lego but actually still owing the IP. Lego makes more money selling star wars than it does selling everything else combined. People see something in films/ video games then come to lego to spend money on about the only modelling think that makes GW look cheap. So no i don't think it's going to kill plastic sales or that GW is going to turn into an IP only thing. It's going to change from introduction at stores to introduction in media then comming into stores looking for Captian Titus or whatever and then discovering the rest of the game. Finally would I buy more GW? Their PE ratio is basically the same as the ftse250 and they're targeted price is 12k a share so yes i plan to buy more. It's undervalued of the Amazon deal goes through.

[@otherdave2]

A "broad" success, Ash? Really? ;)

[@JorenMathews]

Do women watch good sci-fi movies/shows? If they do, then just make it good and they'll watch it. If they don't, then you might as well forget them as a potential market, because you'll just ruin it trying to make it appeal to them. It's not like there aren't tons of things predominately made for and marketed to women. Despite giving up half the population, there are still billions of potential customers.

[@Vorpal_Wit]

Can you repost the name of his channel? You vomited it out like an epileptic fit and I couldn't understand it, and I don't see it in the show notes. Thanks.

[@jamespeterson9620]

Lords of war I believe it was.

[@rmcdaniel2424]

The economy actually isn't bad.. corporate-flation.... is a thing. I mean prove economy is bad lol

[@GuerrillaMiniatureGames]

I can’t tell if this is a joke or not

[@fullaflash]

I watched this vid to the end and enjoyed and liked it - but I don’t agree with your take on the meta watch and gaming points. If that wasn’t seen as important by them, they wouldn’t have put effort into organising events again, acquiring the FLG ITC thing etc. just because you guys are more hobby and fluff focused doesn’t mean that stuff isn’t financially important.

[@GuerrillaMiniatureGames]

The question is; why isn’t it in the annual report then? If they’ve drawn a line as to why it’s financially important then it’s something they’d tell shareholders

[@robliefeld2646]

Star Wars was a generational success because it appealed to men and young boys so well. It's only recently, when Disney has tried to widen the appeal to fringe sexual minorities and women that the brand has taken a major, possibly irreversible, hit. So, I would hope they are less concerned with making a show that has broad appeal and be more concerned with sticking to the world and stories that have made 40k and Warhammer generally a success.

[@yuliydubovyk3080]

God forbid a movie doesn't sexualize women or has minorities in it. How will they recover from such a devastating subversion of expectations of a fringe group of racist incels 😂

[@kudosbudo]

Eh... In what way has star wars changed to appeal to specific groups mentioned?... It's the same as it always was. The exact same appeal. Star wars has always appealed to a wide array of folk. It's always pandered to as wide an audience as possible haha... I can't believe folk actually believe the rhetoric of chuds claiming it only appealed to men and boys haha. That's some revisionist talk you got there. Look at who was going to see those original films, looks audience of nterviews at the time. Hell ask your damn parents and older relatives and peers haha. Oh dear.

[@christophergough5366]

@@robliefeld2646 I am not convinced at all it’s taken any kind of hit. It’s already paid back the cost of the franchise (some £4b) several times over. Also, I’m less convinced they are pushing a widening of appeal so much as just making something for the century in which we live. My 7 year old absolutely loves Star Wars, has spent loads of my money on action figures and Lego and their favourite character is either Ashoka or Rey (they can’t decide which). So Disney are doing just fine out of us. Speaking as a 42 year old who lived and breathed those three movies as a kid, I could not be happier with the amount of content we are now getting. It may not all appeal to me but, as a fan, I’ve never had a broader choice of Star Wars media to consume.

[@AngryAcolyte]

Cringe take holy shit. ‘Sexual minorities’…?

[@Snake-plant]

Can you back up the ‘irreversible hit’ claim with some evidence? Personally I like diversity, the world I live in is diverse and leads to more interesting stories. Speaking as a straight male here.

[@Painttrenchcrusade]

the out of focus nature of this video throws off how good it is

[@jamespeterson9620]

It’s a interview … it could be a podcast… why do you need to actually see them talking or at least complain about it?