Inside Tabletop (LIVE) - Why are tabletop game companies websites so terrible?

[@itsallfunandgames723]

I have frequently been shocked at how many games don't have a presence on KZbin. Especially when you're talking about some larger game companies. Not only is there a market for battle reports which will sell lots of copies of your game ultimately, but I don't think I ever would have been able to play any of my GW games I bought in the 90s if I hadn't been able to read the White Dwarf battle reports. It makes it so much easier for people to get on board with your game after having seen it in action.

[@yagsipcc287]

Yup it is mind blowing like these companies are always testing their games. Record some of them or hell take photos and do a quick voice over of what happened. At worst it will take someone a couple of hours a week and get low views for a long time at best tons of eyes and in turn more people to buy your stuff.

[@TheDeChaser]

Episodes like this are why I keep coming back to Inside table top. This episode breaks down exactly what the problems are with many Table-Top game websites and specifically those aimed at selling product. This episode is also full of a collection of free "best practice" lessons for establishing a useful website in 2024 regardless of product or service offered. I love how this episodes straddles the line between fun goofy casual discussion and tips that feel like they should be pay-gated.

[@seanfiene1292]

This was awesome. For the Monday live stream, have Travis go to the mobile experience for Knight Models so he can develop an eye twitch and we can watch it get progressively worse while he scrolls.

[@steeldrac]

BTW the company that did the GW site is called E2X in the UK… sadly I no longer work for their parent company so I don’t know if they were kept on retainer or something to keep maintaining and improving that Frankenstein’s monster

[@jwitham30]

Pleasehave Travis on again, the off-topic banter between you two is hilarious.

[@GuerrillaMiniatureGames]

Well he lives in Massachusetts so it won’t be often…. But we’ll definitely do it again when he’s back.

[@acrylicchemist1432]

Love the format! Look forward to more videos and making your editing schedule better!

[@mjinoz1677]

So much more interesting and amusing (if depressingly so at the inside the life of Ash offscreen commentary!) than the title suggests. Great stuff!

[@mikereynoldscreative]

It comes down to a lot of the issues I (as a senior UX/UI designer) find with lower end corporates across the board - being under the illusion that cheaper is better, and completely ignoring research and UX. There are experts who do this for a living. User experience research and strategy will literally make or break your website - you are not your customer, no matter what you think. Decisions should be data-led and not based on guesswork. If you can identify, define and understand your target audience (like REALLY know and understand them and their behaviour) then you can anticipate their needs and painpoints. A website has to be an enjoyable, instinctive experience for users - especially if you want it to achieve its objective (making a sale in most cases). As soon as there are obstacles in the way (confusing navigation, janky or tiny images, missing pages or items, dead ends) a user will bail. Humans have a shorter attention span than goldfish these days, so you've got your work cut out, and cutting corners will hurt you. GW didn't design their website for their customers, and that's why it's something to be endured, not experienced.

[@wychkingsarmoury]

Awesome format! Fun, friendly, looking forward to more! (and yes, navigating GWs web store is a nightmare!).

[@judgecohen1373]

I was on the team that built the first Games Workshop website and online store (which many seem to have liked) for 11 years. 1997-2008. It was the US site which was first. Interesting topic.

[@GuerrillaMiniatureGames]

I remember that rollout. Honestly it was a very functional site!

[@judgecohen1373]

@@GuerrillaMiniatureGames Thanks. It was all built by 3 people. We worked very hard on it and constantly tried for improvement. Originally it was not thought to be a good investment by many of the Exec. Richard Ellard and Robin Dews knew better. If you check the Talking Miniatures book, Richard Ellard details it in his interview. I think we proved the naysayers wrong. Lol.

[@judgecohen1373]

@@GuerrillaMiniatureGames much appreciated. We always tried to make something we wanted to use a customers and hobbyists. I tried to get them to hire me back for the latest store but never got past the first phase. Lol. They made a bunch of errors we had already been through in the past. They have no one left who remembers so they just make them again.

[@skirmishmats]

Lemme tell you a story about how we named our company... Another great convo!

[@richarddagger4954]

Great show, loved the conversation. I know what you mean about websites making or breaking your engagement - the reason I don't play Bushido is their terrible website, and their tiny tny thumbnails

[@MentatOfDune]

The dual format works great 👍

[@SciFiPorkChop28]

Scotch Manhattan from Massachusetts on this fine Monday evening at 6:49 pm... drank the homebrewed hot coffee at 6 am and then refilled some Fogbuster's hot coffee (half and half, no sugar) at like 10:30 am and nursed that till 3 pm.... the Massachusett's Way... (minus the dunks).

[@steeldrac]

Nice format, I like it. Talking about outdated websites… The Miniatures Page is still alive in all its late 90s glory…

[@GuerrillaMiniatureGames]

It’s sooooo ollllld

[@necrarian]

Missed oportunity not talking about the "Bushido" miniatures game website, taking inspiration from Japan to the point of having a their site be a horrible user experience.

[@kierdalemodels]

That was hilarious, and very interesting at the same time. Format’s absolutely fine👍

[@battlekiwi]

This is a great listen. Every day I wish I had time to spend improving our website etc 😆😒😭

[@Kevin.Mitchell]

Great episode - all hail our mighty algorithmical overloads!

[@torymiddlebrooks]

Too damn fun to watch buddies just shoot the shit about stuff they know and are passionate about.

[@badnamebob]

Very nice, more of this please!

[@beatjunky101]

The last 15 minutes of this video is gold 🤣

[@leemillward7523]

I enjoyed the video and layout, even though I havent a clue what you guys were on about!

[@angrypantz87]

I only caught some of it live and caught up this morning but this works. I’m all for the banter and atmosphere of people just being into what they do. The new GW website is god awful still. I doubt it will be fixed any time soon. I miss their first webpage from the early 00’s.

[@kudosbudo]

17:55 I dont think ive ever discovered a new game from a blog by the author of said game ever. i tend to find games via news blog sites that cover multiple games and warhammer. or youtube vids by folk covering multiple games.Maybe i'm misunderstanding whars been said here.

[@kudosbudo]

i just did a search for tabletop skirmish games and after blogs about multiple games and ads i found four games i'd not heard of on author websites. used duckduckgo though.

[@spaghettispaghotti]

I’m describing an SEO technique that would create authority with Google, and potentially gain you links from related websites. This would improve your chances of appearing in related searches and potentially get you customers by showing product to them as part of the blog. No one really produces material like that in this space, but it’s common elsewhere. Does that make sense?

[@garyjenson1326]

Ash the difference between a highly edited video and this makes little difference to the watcher. It's the conversations that matter, which I think you already suspect.

[@ultimentra]

Awesome, please have Travis on more. Ripping on GW is my favorite past time, ripping on their website is a great new flavor.

[@genedean5761]

On your comment, Ash, about putting the online game development as part of the process, do you have any thoughts about how Ravaged Star has been presented? It's definitely in the algorithm.

[@GuerrillaMiniatureGames]

Honestly apart from seeing their booth at Adepticon I haven’t seen much marketing for it! I think my algorithm is probably not the norm though!

[@genedean5761]

@@GuerrillaMiniatureGames just had the funny, albeit probably dumb idea: patrons should screenshot what shows up in their algorithms and share out what we get. Nevermind. It could be a very terrible uncomfortable conversation lol

[@Havok448]

Missed it live :(. But great show!

[@euansmith3699]

"... Bing... if you are psychopath..." 😄😄😄 One way to speed up the GW website would be for them to add a "Currently Unavailable" filter. I watched this on KZbin. It was great; though Ash is a bit low in the mix.

[@Witchcraft467]

I did not watch this live but I love watching you chat with folks. As a Gen X'er I gotta say the 'porn in the shed' comment is not far off the mark :)

[@andrewcook3983]

The chat doesn't have to go away. I'm not sure how it is done, but it can be.

[@garyjenson1326]

I miss that shed....

[@loser7829]

haha, disappointed i missed it live

[@tragicthegarnering3619]

I hate gw's new site, some things are fine as for example age of sigmar there are the catagorys for each faction where you can see everything. Not for Imperialis, you have to search for the things that don't get shown the the Imperialis page.

[@garyjenson1326]

Hey I'm 57..my favorite number...#bbqblood!

[@darnokx9277]

The camera setup is kinda cursed. Seeing a hand from the left side reaching for a cup... appearing on the right side as well (and vice versa). Like... can you not? Please.