Inside the Chieftain's Hatch: 17PR SPM Archer, Pt 1

With new music! Hopping across the water to Bovington again, a look at the Valentine-based 17pr anti-tank gun.
This is a Wargaming funded video. Do a solid, if you haven't done so already, go try the game out, the link will associate the player with this product and reinforce that it should continue. tanks.ly/WoTChieftain

[@SnowmanTF2]

"Gun towards enemy" does sound like a solid plan for this vehicle

[@dropdead234]

Are we SURE this wasn't designed by the french? It does seem to be designed to run away from, rather than toward, the enemy.

[@lavrentivs9891]

Sounds like a solid plan for most combat vehicles^^

[@jameshuggins17]

@@dropdead234 I believe that it stems from an artillery viewpoint of shooting and then getting away quickly from the firing position to avoid counter battery fire

[@joe125ful]

Yeah,surprise,surprise!:)

[@davidbrennan660]

Nasty WWII films filmed in Egypt during the late sixties loved having the Faux DAK having these..... driving about..... backwards in all scenes .... appalling.

[@Szalami]

I appreciate the new music, but man is it strange, I'm so used to that 30 second loop by now.

[@billbrockman779]

swedish_leasuretime_shed As long as it’s not constantly playing in the background overpowering the talk.

[@fabiogalletti8616]

The loud rock riff had a significant emotional event and it's not here any more. Horray.

[@Szalami]

@Jonny B Actually yes, Chieftain videos are way better without them, especially since once again the music is loud as all fuck even tho it feels like Nick is trying to shout over it while IRL they didn't even have the music going with varying amounts of success. I guess WG is the one that can't resist putting some loud ass music under the videos.

[@tigercat418]

Homosexuals are attracted to kids

[@T3hderk87]

@@tigercat418 I don't even..... what kind of drugs are you on man? This is a discussion about music.

[@NotTheCIA1961]

I'm digging the new BG music. A lot more subtle and I'm actually able to hear myself think. Kudos to WG for letting it change.

[@McRocket]

Yeah...and it only took them about 3.5 million videos to get around to doing it.

[@andrewphillips8341]

No music would be better.

[@totallyaploy1824]

@@andrewphillips8341 disagreed

[@f12mnb]

@@McRocket And it raises more questions - like WHY, why is there any music needed at all? Is someone getting royalty payments on the music?

[@McRocket]

@@f12mnb Good question - I had not thought of that.

[@user-ol2sk3nv7k]

"the first question, of course is always which end is front? well, the manual answers this for you: it's the front end" hmm yes the floor here is made of floor

[@coryfice1881]

Took them a few years to fix the background music.

[@EnterpriseXI]

I actually didn't mind the old background music

[@Bekker215]

@@EnterpriseXI I think you are in the minority on that one lol

[@rhamph]

The music itself was okay but was usually way, way too loud.

[@wtfmrb293]

Lol

[@area3593]

I miss the old music :(

[@ajshell2]

Thank god for quieter music! I hope they saved the original audio for the old episodes so that they can rerelease them!

[@kw9849]

I'm so happy WG finally hired an editor who knows what the hell they're doing.

[@Novous]

God, it was brutal.

[@nougan_tanker]

Massive respect for The Chieftain to risk his life to crawl under the Archer on Block to present one of the most important part of the Inside The Chieftain's Hatch videos... how suspension works. :-D But seriously these videos are awesome, because even I am at the museum and looking at these tanks, I would not know any of these interesting facts, thank you very much Mr. Moran.

[@dridric]

Smart design, it doesn't need a wet ammorack because the rain will do the job.

[@imranhazim5434]

The tank destroyer also can be as swimming pool. Even better, water cooled engine.

[@joe125ful]

@@imranhazim5434 Ahahaah:)

[@TheMinecraftfreak668]

And the rain will wash most of the blood away.

[@amcconnell6730]

That's the first time the Chieftan has mentioned that you need to do a track tension every day. Woa! I thought it would be a "once per fitting track" thing ... now I know why he is so interested in the track tension mechanism of all of these vehicles....

[@chaz8758]

Checking track tension is a daily task but we also did a quick and dirty way on short halts with our 432's when doing long road moves

[@ChenAnPin]

"Anti-Tank and Tank Destroyer are the same things, right?" "Well yes but no."

[@ditzydoo4378]

*Anti-Tank:* a gun or gun-carrier system used for defensive fire in static locations, such as Archer, or the 2/6/17 pounder field guns. *Tank Destroyers:* Fast anti-tank units held in reserve, deployed against an attacking enemy force at the point of penetration, hence the M-18 Hellcat.

[@ditzydoo4378]

@@mcpuff2318it seems to be the best I've found to describe the difference between the two concepts at the time of there development and deployment. Anti-Tank systems are slower to employ and are deliberately set out in areas were the enemy is believed to be coming such as defensive perimeters, or ambush choke points, best done by towed guns which are far easier to conceal. The Tank Destroyers by definition are a fast response weapon used in the counter-offensive role to halt and destroy an enemy that has broken through your defensive line beyond your defensive anti-tank guns. To this date I've found no better original explanation for the two. As tanks developed with larger more capable guns there soon became no need for the two separate systems and tanks themselves filled the role of both Anti-Tank and Tank-Destroyers. But now in the modern era with high lethally anti-tank missile systems, the main battle tank time maybe over. I would think the newer generations of IFV's will take their place being cheaper, more flexible and with the missiles far deadlier over vastly greater ranges.

[@ret7army]

@@ditzydoo4378 ah, thank you, I thought it was just a British thing

[@ditzydoo4378]

@@ret7army as is said, "the times they are a changing". and with change comes new concepts and development.

[@88porpoise]

DitzyDoo People have been proclaiming the death of the tank for generations. First it was ATGMs, then attack helicopters, then asymmetric warfare (and probably plenty more). The Canadian Army was looking at replacing it’s Leopard Is with Strykers around 20 years ago because of those ideas, but after they went to Afghanistan they bought Leopard IIs instead.

[@mistertree553]

I do have to admit- not hearing that classic “Inside the Chieftain’s Hatch” guitar riff playing every 30 seconds is rather odd.

[@toomanyenemies6452]

This is one of those vehicles where I never would of thought to ask for an "Inside the hatch" for but now that I have it I'm happy

[@s3dchr]

I'm one of the probably few people that love their Archer, so this made me quite happy.

[@TammoKorsai]

The Archer has failed the 'Oh my god! The track tension is wrong!' test.

[@Bochi42]

Archer is a brilliant name given British history I'd say.

[@Mildcat743]

'Little square rectangles.' Perfectly clear as always, Nick.

[@wildonemeister]

"Two six volt batteries, a 24-volt system." Are you just going to leave us hanging until the next part comes out before telling us where the remaining two batteries are located?

[@General_Cartman_Lee]

Must be Imperial Volts. 😂

[@canoli72]

wildonemeister it’s the “new math” approach. Take 2x6 = 12 then double it by introducing x as a variable. I understood math with numbers. Then they had to introduce letters. Then they introduced variables. Go figure!

[@balintnemes6774]

2 on both sides

[@ret7army]

@@canoli72 LOL

[@drkjk]

@@balintnemes6774 Not what he said, he said on the left side there is a 50 gal fuel tank.

[@davidford85]

To be honest this layout really makes sense for a self-propelled anti-tank gun, with the gun facing backwards. Certainly beats having to turn the vehicle around while under fire, especially as the reverse speeds for a lot of WWII vehicles was comparable to continental drift! The only other way to get the same effect would be to a secondary driving position in the rear of the vehicle and have the same speed in reverse as forwards. Never really understood why tanks (at least WWII tanks) have different speeds in forwards and reverse. Surely it's just as easy to flip the rotation of the input or output shaft within the gearbox as it is to have a separate reverse gear or in the case of vehicles with two reverse gears actually easier. With more modern tanks I can understand having a lower reverse speed, since the top speed is so damn fast, after all 25mph off-road in reverse might possibly be a little daft.... One question with regards to the Archer: If for whatever reason the vehicle wasn't in a hull-down position when engaging the enemy and they took a hit, would the engine being between them and the incoming round increase the crew's survivability vs the same hit from the front? Basically does the engine effectively add to the armour?

[@b1gbird001]

>gets underneath tank >notices the blocks holding it up "lets make this a quick one..."

[@McRocket]

This music is a LOT less intrusive. THANK YOU!!! BTW - before I started watching your videos, I had virtually no interest in tank/SG/AG suspensions. Thanks to you - since they have been beaten into my head 😉 - I now have some interest in them. Still not much - but a LOT more then before. 🙂

[@joachimb9305]

Yeah and this is the first time I picked up that you have to tighten the tracks each day. Which I don't really get. How do they loosen so much? Does the metal in the tracks expand or something?

[@McRocket]

@@joachimb9305I know not. My guess is with all that tremendous weight being supported, that everything just loosens up rather quickly under all that pressure. But I am not sure.

[@joachimb9305]

McRocket Yeah that's as far as I can guess myself, but I mean; there's the tires/rollers and there's the track. For it to loosen either the distance (when tying a rope) between the tires decrease, or the track expands. That's basically the only two options; and why shaking would make the distance decrease, meaning a tire is somehow been pushed back, down, up or forward, seems strange. The rubber around the tires might wear off, but not all tanks even use rubber in the tires do they? And if it's not the tires it's the track, and why the track would expand also seems strange. Might be a number of things all in all, and I'm probably over thinking this. :)

[@McRocket]

@@joachimb9305 Logical. You should ask the Chieftain. He often answers questions on here.

[@johnknapp952]

Giving directions to new drivers must have been a pain. "Driver - Forward", "No, the other Forward".

[@marshmellominiapple]

well the tank is forward, the gun is backward

[@justforever96]

That's why they always clearly define these things, and why they use "port and starboard" in ships and then tanks. Because it doesn't change depending on how you are facing, it's immediately clear that the vessel is being referred to, not the individual. Determine which side is port , the front is to the left if of that.

[@gizmophoto3577]

Yea for new music! The soundtrack does not interfere or distract from the always excellent information. Your presentations always show how these systems work together (or don't, as the case may be) to get a weapon in position to (hopefully) effectively engage the enemy. You've certainly helped me better understand the importance of the man/machine interface and interaction, e.g., track tensioning.

[@reteip9]

YES! Building one in 1/35 scale so having a video is a lot better than looking up random walkarounds :D

[@MushroomFromMars]

Learning a fair bit from your knowledge of these vehicles that generally is hard to find online. Always been interested in the historical reasoning behind the Archer.

[@MBkufel]

Well, the music is tolerable at last

[@Caratacus1]

'The rear of the vehicle is fairly unremarkable'. Well, apart from the massive 17pdr pointing out of it!

[@adm0iii]

17 pdr in rear -- pretty common in some neighborhoods.

[@myselfremade]

The downside of this vehicle being powered by a 671 is that you could probably hear it coming well before it reaches firing range. The upside is that it likely didn't require auxillary smoke generators often

[@EssJay1095]

lmao Nothing like an old 2-stroke Detroit

[@Knallteute]

I love the "We design something new but have still enough time to build an improvise to get through the time we need to get the real thing field ready."

[@adm0iii]

Sounds like me trying to get through life.

[@Activated_Complex]

When you showed how the track is tensioned, I was thinking “well, at least they give you some room to work under there.” Then the reveal that “oh, bugger, the tank is on blocks.” So yeah, that couldn’t have been pleasant in the field.

[@justforever96]

They didn't raise it off the ground, they just took the weight off the suspension. If that jackstand collapsed the tank might drop and inch and then stop.

[@alexanderhartmann7950]

Carbon tetrachloride sounds fun to have. To quote the wiki: "Prolonged exposure can be fatal." Also, for the ozone layer.

[@dropdead234]

Given that exposure to FIRE tends to fatal long before that, I'll take my chances.

[@markbeyea4063]

It was 1940. Everything at that time could have been fatal, and often was. Also, they didn't even know there was an ozone layer.

[@markbeyea4063]

Hey! I just realized this was a new post. Glad to see the Chieftain is still around. Really love his content.

[@yalelingoz6346]

Oh! This is was a pleasant surprise. (And well done as always.) Now I'm looking forward to part two.

[@darronhedges5873]

An 'Archer' was an apt name.The Parthian shot,configuration.On WOT someone asked why they designed the Archer to go faster in reverse? "They didnt.'

[@timsmith4548]

We were using the wire reels for internal platoon commo on assembly area ops in 1998-2000 in 1-1 Cav. When I rotated stateside into a proper armor battalion, we didn't even have them.

[@Br1cht]

Yaaz, soak up every erg of that non-ionized radiation, from every source.

[@dylanmilne6683]

I think I'm suffering from withdrawal of the old music.

[@readhistory2023]

Actually for a first attempt at mounting the gun it's a damn fine design.

[@rat_king-]

Huh. appropriate music works, as long as its not, the auditory sandpaper that WOT kept in the back of the videos

[@kw9849]

The old music was barely in the background at all, it was frequently front and center!

[@hoilst]

New Chieftain! With New Music! And a 7.71kg of goodness!

[@LmgWarThunder]

Gotta love the old 16.99764 Pdr.

[@jimbo9305]

Of all the things we Americans decided to go metric on we chose guns and cola, perhaps the most American things I can think of.

[@jic1]

@@jimbo9305 American soda (and beer) cans aren't metric, and neither are the glass bottles. The plastic bottles are metric because they were already standardized before they were introduced to America.

[@jimbo9305]

@@jic1 Soda should never be in anything metric since it is as American as apple pie. By God the recipe for that pie better include cups and not grams.

[@jic1]

@@jimbo9305 Cups are really their own thing: the Aussies use them too, and they've been fully metric for decades.

[@ghdfhsfnfgbadfhsfh]

looking forward to the next vid to see if the interior is sensible for crew operations :) on a quick fix vehicle, ready rack already looks great. Ambush, if eventually ur spotted run and blow smoke while ur at it. Smash and Dash.

[@colbeausabre8842]

Re Commo Wire Reels - setting up a hot loop between vehicles when we set up for the night was SOP in every unit I ever served in. Essentially it was a party line hooked into the infantry phone at the rear of the vehicle

[@muwuny]

New music finally

[@tankolad]

Huh. I kinda miss the old, inappropriately loud music now. Damn Stockholm syndrome...

[@jakobc.2558]

Yeah me too

[@HowLongDoesItTake4Dads2BuyMilk]

hell no

[@torindechoza7266]

yes, i was able to hear what he was speaking. People are overly dramatic. At least it was rock music and not reaggeton

[@stevetaylor5933]

When I was in hole with my stinking oppo for 3 days, freezing cold, soaking wet, there was no music, in fact getting a response on coms was a moment of cheer, gashy your still a wanker, so for me, no music is as good as a brew

[@xenopodhighlights4593]

Music is much improved. I like the example shots from the manual. I'm not sure if that's new or if I have a poor memory.

[@yujinakamura3316]

5:31 Oh my TRACK TENSION! Can't miss it! That's the_Chieftain.

[@johnfisk811]

The British practice for vehicle engine capacity has always been in litres from the industry drawing on French practices and components in it's formative days.

[@sgtsnake8087]

Always love these videos, learn something new everytime and I could listen to this guy for hours just talking tanks.

[@Kastev30]

Ah the good ol' Butt Tank. One of my most favorite tanks to use in War Thunder simply for the memes Also, I am so happy that the old incredibly annoying looping music is gone now. Thank you for listening to our complaints and answering them!

[@MrTylerman127]

JMan you can play the IS2 like the archer as well. If you put bushes on it really confuses the enemy lol.

[@antongrahn1499]

At 3.3 its pretty good, as long as the enemy is coming to you. I always bring it. Shame 3.3 brittish is such a pain...

[@TheCarDemotic]

The Prodigal Knight The IS-2 is so fun when driving backwards. The speed isn’t that bad and the engine absorbs everything.

[@vaclav_fejt]

@@antongrahn1499 Cromwell 5? Sea Hurricane Mk.II with rockets?

[@antongrahn1499]

@@vaclav_fejt I kind of hate the brittish guns. Okay Pen but horrible damage. And you are facing the panzer IV, one of the best tanks at its tier. Throw in some KV1 as well. Aircraft have no good bombs while the germans get 110s and stukas with massive payloads. No real good armour for you either. When we last played it there was loss after loss after loss.

[@xy1468]

The front is at the front - who knew!?

[@fabiogalletti528]

X Y sneaky tommies... :-P

[@pex_the_unalivedrunk6785]

Funny...I always have to drive mine backwards and my team mates get mad at me because they think I'm a Nub!

[@kolchev5824]

Yes! At last, new music!

[@drkjk]

Had you participated in Desert Shield / Storm, no doubt you would have had a chance to utilize your reels of commo wire for your platoon's hot loop and M8 alarm.

[@jmullner76]

Only a British man would be perturbed by the size of his gun.

[@douglasgreen437]

He's Irish..

[@jmullner76]

@@douglasgreen437 Director spoken about at 45 seconds is who I am referring to.

[@Masada1911]

I really appreciate the new music

[@Mathwayb]

I never understood the dislike of the old music. I often saw people who said they couldn't hear anything other than the music, but I could always hear Nick just fine. Strange. Excellent video as always though, can't wait for part 2!

[@GRANDMASTER3D]

I'm a veteran and my ears are a mess. It's much easier for me hear now. The previous vids weren't the worst on KZbin but I really appreciate the new sound.

[@bluekestral8316]

Methylbromide extinguisher. Literally poison fumigant

[@Mishn0]

Not like the perfectly safe carbon tetrachloride fire extinguisher. I recall using that stuff in the bug-killing jar we made in biology class.

[@brucelee3388]

And the other one produces Phosgene gas when it comes in contact with something hot! Yeah, its why Carbon Tetrachloride is now a banned substance in most places, and dry cleaners died young.

[@DefconMaster]

@@brucelee3388 That's not really the main reason it's banned, it has more to do with the fact that it's highly toxic to the liver, kidneys, and nervous system. Decomposing into phosgene at high temperatures is just the icing on the highly poisonous (and carcinogenic!) cake.

[@Maus5000]

Love the new music. Excellent video as always; I look forward to part 2

[@paulrward]

Bo and MoEvel of BoTimeGaming will love this thing. They've already flown an Italian fighter with a Butt-Cannon, now they can drive a British tank with a Butt-Cannon !

[@Ocrilat]

Except Bo recently took this out...and called it the vehicle in WT he hates the most lol.

[@Ocrilat]

War Thunder - Archer "One Of My Most Hated Vehicles In Game!" kzbin.info/www/bejne/amG2pXmIbL98l8k

[@PitFriend1]

A new view of vehicles! Usually the Chieftain just does around the sides and the top, but this time we get the underside as well!

[@QuizmasterLaw]

this is actually a really good vehicle.

[@HarryFlashmanVC]

That gut wrenching feeling when you are under a vehicle and you realise its on blocks 😬

[@axelrajr]

very nice,, though i am curious how you get 24 volts from 2 6 volt batteries. also, when you were describing the bogeys, you referred to the last two wheels as vehicles. i do like the new background music. very nice.

[@russwoodward8251]

A very interesting vehicle. Thanks!

[@Ray-tg1sj]

I remember wire being run between guns in my artillery battery as late as 2010.

[@54tisfaction]

"The first question of course is always: which end is front? Well, the manual answers this for you: it's the front end." Can't get much clearer than that.

[@lordtomlluckrahthegreat9014]

Been waiting my whole life for this

[@LeminskiTankscor]

Excellent work with the B roll on this video

[@connoissuer_of_class]

I’ve been waiting soooo long for this

[@g10118]

Thank you baby Jesus for getting rid of that horrid guitar riff loop and using a reasonable background volume! 🙌 The chieftain was excellent as always.

[@ninus17]

awsome. i was hoping you would do a video on the archer one day. now i cant wait until you get around to the m7 priest

[@WildBillCox13]

"Nice gun, M8, but how you gonna drag it around?"

[@ericcorse]

Been missing these.

[@malcolmheather3204]

No references to the placement of the gun facing over the back of the tank being British rather than Italian? I show pictures of this tank to my students to break some of the myths of Italian courage in World War II. Another great video - many thanks.

[@dazedandconfusedstacker9923]

Love your channel. I work at GDLS. Was lead inspector on the prototype and upgrades on the Sepv3. Getting ready to start prototype build of the Sepv3. The last Abrams

[@dazedandconfusedstacker9923]

Actually took a nap in the drivers compartment of an A1 at lunch today

[@dazedandconfusedstacker9923]

Ment V4

[@johnmosser6695]

New music!!! I never thought I'd see the day!!

[@mausindahaus5317]

The chieftain still going stronk 💪

[@RaduB.]

Nice! I just have one under construction. In 1:35th scale albeit. :-)

[@dreamcrusher112]

I'd let Chieftain do an Inside the Hatch on my wife

[@josephhardwicke6344]

inside the snatch.

[@potatonamedtate6727]

Looks like it could use some track tension

[@Finwolven]

"Oh my god, the wife is on fire!"

[@MediumRareOpinions]

I don't want to think about the concept of "4 man crew" for said wife...

[@williambeavis9929]

"The commander's position is quite spacious, wouldn't want to be the driver though."

[@tommeakin1732]

This is so much better without the incessantly repetitive music

[@pex_the_unalivedrunk6785]

The Angry Connor really needs a buff....it's been so power creeped over the years. Maybe a slight increase to rate of fire, and a subtle reduction to dispersion at 100 meters would be fair.

[@uuuuheeee4254]

now this is the stuff

[@Terry8238]

I love this vehicle

[@derrickstorm6976]

Where the heck is the intro music!? Outrageous!!

[@DC9622]

Interestingly mr Fletcher has done a recent tank chart on archer kzbin.info/www/bejne/mWLCoIWhdst-hq8. An important feature of Archer is concealment when comparing to other SP equipment. There is an interesting photograph showing archer next to a M10 Achilles, which is a few feet taller given the idea is to hide and not prance around the battlefield.

[@Wladislav]

Who would have thought I would ever get to see Mr Moran in the same position as someone sharing his bed.

[@HarryFlashmanVC]

Oddly enough, unlike the USA, in Britain it has always been common to describe engine cylinder capacity in litres rather than Imperial from the dawn of the internal combustion engine. Living in Britain we tend to think in Imperial for most measurements but are taught in metric and of course, since the early 1970s have sold most commercial goods, if not consumer, in metric. It confuses the heck out of foreigners, which is probably why we do it! 😁

[@bdrift107]

Pretty sure this tank should have a keg on the "front" of it (Angry Conor).

[@warhead_beast7661]

Can we finally please get a inside the Chieftains Hatch: Chieftain its really necesary!!!

[@Pijawek]

Get inside Archer? Phrasing!

[@MonotoneCreeper]

Thank god that music is gone.

[@McRocket]

Hear hear.

[@Alpostpone]

@@McRocket Now we can...

[@McRocket]

@@Alpostpone Good one.

[@Jay-ln1co]

Anyone getting behind that thing will be in the danger zone.

[@adamfield4068]

Cue Kenny Loggins

[@tacomas9602]

A very fuel efficient vehicle I'd say.

[@bloro2812]

and on this episode on the chieftains hatch Nicholas Moran spends time on the floor to explain suspension... :)

[@ianallan8005]

The engine and transmission were indeed pinched to restore a Valentine. By me, about thirty years ago

[@szb-ei8zc]

At 1:34 and 4:45 you can see some small gouges on the armor. Would that be battle damage from small arms fire? Thanks!

[@mpf1947]

Listing the total displacement in English would be redundant as the engine's name (6-71) already indicates 6 cylinders, 71 cubic inches each.

[@AG9229]

In the Valentine, it's technically the GM 6004. Sorry.

[@GRANDMASTER3D]

What's that leaf spring for in back? Just to make towing more comfortable?

[@amerigo88]

The Archer was perfect! 423 Likes, 0 Dislikes! So far...

[@g2macs]

Although not perfect its leaps and bounds better than the last one where we couldn't hear anything but the music.

[@cladglas]

it's time to bring back the wire platoons.

[@brittongolfwang]

Nice

[@eugenioderevell3826]

Do a video on the m13/40 or the m14/41/,15/43 please! We need to see some italica armor

[@jjsmallpiece9234]

Could do with a laugh