Inside the Writers Zoom with Better Call Saul, hosted by Patton Oswalt

On May 12, we heard from the writers room of AMC drama Better Call Saul, which just wrapped its fifth season. Find out how they’ve approached character development throughout the seasons and how they’ve deftly crafted the storylines that ultimately led to Saul Goodman’s role in Breaking Bad.
Panelists:
Peter Gould - Co-creator, Showrunner
Thomas Schnauz - Writer, Executive Producer
Gordon Smith - Writer, Co-Executive Producer
Alison Tatlock - Writer, Co-Executive Producer
Ann Cherkis - Writer, Supervising Producer
Moderated by Patton Oswalt.

[@chriseleftheriadis9379]

They are great writers but most importantly nice people.

[@paperchasindude6578]

Ikr

[@williamroper5422]

I know lots of nice people. Their great writing is more rare and important to me.

[@trainspotter360]

I love that Patton Oswalt loves this show

[@djsosonut]

Yeah. It's fun that you can tell he majorly geeks out over the show. One of us. One of us.

[@andyspendlove1019]

Someone's iPhone keeps going off like crazy 😂

[@arghavanfth2853]

Season 5 is incredible!

[@paperchasindude6578]

Ikr

[@clauditorium]

The writers and show runners on this show and Breaking Bad have come up with the perfect balance between planning and allowing the characters to lead the story. This interview just made me love Better Call Saul even more.

[@lawanddalatieh]

From the bell rings it sounds like hector salamanca was on the zoom call

[@reid.7680]

53:45 Peter Gould is just so humble. I know it ruffles some feathers to say so and it's just a personal opinion but Better Call Saul is more cerebral, suspenseful and emotional in the ways that matter more to me (restating the personal opinion). Vince passed the torch to precisely the right guy. Nobody is more suited than Peter. Imagine having to weave a story towards a series of plot and character conclusions that you know most of the audience is already aware of. It is clear in the writing that he and his team have deviously enjoyed this near impossible task these latter seasons, as they toy with our expectations over who ends up in the world of Saul's Breaking Bad and more importantly how. Even without the weight of having watched and been a fan of Breaking Bad, my uninitiated friends turned focus group guinea pigs enjoyed Better Call Saul's emotional roller coasters no less. El Camino was quite a ride, but it only prolonged Jesse's already finished character arc. It was a bumpy one no less, forcing Jesse to return to the criminal underworld in a last ditch effort for a clean start. But wasn't this clean start tarnished by the story's need for him to be a badass one more time? Why have Jesse overcome his trauma by embodying the traits of Heisenberg? Was remembering the joy of having been proud of your modest wooden creation not enough? It should have ended there. Maybe it's not as cool to some, but to me it'd be much more meaningful and satisfying given the final arc of his character in Breaking Bad features a tortured man overcome by guilt, yearning to be more than Heisenberg's equal. I thought Jesse needed to realize that he didn't need to beat Walt: he just had to be the better man. As for the five seasons we have of Better Call Saul, bravo. I have fallen in love with all of it. However whether they stick the landing or not is incumbent on season six. All the impressive consistencies between the two different series matters most when their converging threads meet. Sometimes I am nervous because it could make or break my favorite show. Better Call Saul and Breaking Bad have unexpectedly different tones despite being set in the same universe and having parallel themes of struggling with personal/familial/societal expectations, living a double life, beating the system that had spurned you, and the final inevitable collapse of monuments built on pride and lies. As HBO's Chernobyl put it, "What is the cost of lies?". Better Call Saul always did best talking about the lies you tell yourself. Walter paid his dues, now it's Jimmy's turn. We saw Chuck pay the price. Now it's Kim's turn. So many things can go wrong in the incoming (potential?) overlap between the timelines, but I trust Peter because he gave us five stellar seasons Better Call Saul. Okay sure by this point I've praised Peter Gould enough. He said it himself that it's a team effort and they're building on the foundation of Vince Gilligan's creations. If you think I'm short-changing Vince by writing this, then take it from him when asked about his credits: “Very little [to do with it]. I mean, I directed the one episode - It’s being run by Peter Gould… Peter and the writers are doing a tremendous job; the show just gets better and better without me.” When asked about how it ends, he says that Peter is coy and keeps secrets! That's why Peter is so humble. Vince refuses to let his own legacy shadow Peter. I look forward to Season Six and hope that COVID hasn't been too great of an obstacle to overcome!

[@romeydall4067]

Tony Dalton fawning begins at 41:27.

[@benbelaboehm]

Gordon, your hair 😂🍷👍 so nice to listen in. Thanks!

[@toodamnicycold]

Vince and peter have built a really solid team. Not only are they talented but theyre really nice and have no ego.

[@calebmoose5562]

i think i heard every different type of apple notification sound in this

[@fhowland]

The writers are the real brains behind the show. Loved hearing from them!

[@laurettelaliberte8864]

I love it. True collaboration and trust, not just between writers, but the writing team and the actors. No egos.

[@123mikanchan]

oh man, i love peter so much

[@jensriemann3070]

Good to hear that Hector was on Zoom aswell. Ding, Ding, Ding, Ding!

[@timmybrowzen]

This is great 👍 thanks!!!!

[@ASH18YEARS]

This was great

[@JustVisiting]

Next project - how about a prequel about Mike’s days as a corrupt cop, set in the 1990’s?

[@TheVividKiWi]

Great interview! 👌🏻

[@mortipvp]

Found ya, Kiwi!

[@TheVividKiWi]

@@mortipvp 🖐🏻😳🤚🏻 ya got me

[@55bingley]

Nice wallpaper Patton - Kirby!

[@PeterMoore66]

Patton Oswalt would be a brilliant guest star in Better Call Saul.

[@BlackCat.Designs]

I knew it!!! I got so many trash on other comment sections for saying that Kim doesnt really loved Jimmy... She was in it just for the thrill and it goes back to just having mommy issues. She wouldnt be with jimmy, back then when it was just Jimmy she barely looked at him with respect... she likes this Saul persona, thats what turns her on (mommy issues)...Her need for the thrill and getting away with it and hurting and owning people in power...I think Kim is just a "bad" person trying to be good... And Saul is a "good" person trying to be bad. They both overcompensate for their actions and live a lie... I dont think they should be together, they looked odd as a couple, they only kissed and went on it in the heat of the excitement. (mostly after a succesful score and by Kim's initiative). I think Saul really loved her but mostly out of his need for being accepted for who he is. I mean is tragic but this happens in real life... And the sublte way kim handle the break up... Man! one of those writers must have had a breakup just like that to write this!... Its So subtle only people that had similar experiences can pick that up... I'm amazed that almost no one realizes this...I mean She cares for him but didnt love him. And I think Howard's last words are what caught Kim off guard, I don't think she was "shell shocked" by his death... I think it was this realization that she is just truly a bad person was what hit her hard, and that she couldve had Jimmy killed... This is what made her leave him... And this realization is what she is thinkin throughout the entire episode then the moment she made her mind about leaving him was after confronting Howards Widow... You can see on Rhea's subtle performance that she enjoyed it, she wanted to look at her eyes at the exact moment she broke her heart....that was just reasuring her what she already knew: her dark side is real.... She knows this as she walks quietly out to the parking lot while Jimmy tries to comfort her thinking "this must've been so hard to her" lol little does he know is that she enjoys it!!...Kim picks on Jimmy's total ignorance/innocence and just kisses him and leaves (she knows this is their last kiss) Of course Jimmy only gets this about her when she literally said that she kept the truth about Lalo because she wanted to keep the fun going.... (Even after saying it people dont pick this up!!! They dont want to accept it or to think about kim not loving him, just as probably Jimmy did aswell for years) This is why he stops begging for her to stay, he knows theres no relationship to save... And he knew it deep down all the time, back when kim owned the Kettleman and called kim a wolf.... This is why Jimmy goes full Saul he got mind f#$@ by this he thought he knew her and he truly loved her.... Tragic af... And so layered that 90% of the people missed this... That kind of stuff would've made you unable to sleep.... Thats why Saul goodman is turned on 24/7 from then on... is just a distraction.

[@cashnelson2306]

oh my god lady mute your damn phone

[@mwuerfel]

I wonder (and don't expect this to be answered publicly) how one manages to contact the writers for a conversation like this or, as I would like to, for a documentary feature about the creativity behind the writer's room. Any (private) answer to this would be met with great enthusiasm.

[@FullMetalPanicNL]

Either through having industry contacts or simply getting a hold of someone's agent. Then it depends who you are and for what purpose. Now this is The Writers Guild Foundation a known and, as far as I know, respected org. A bunch of writers will want to have a talk with people like that.

[@jonatanpinadulucmusic]

I want Kim to become too hardcore for Jimmy, and that's how they part ways.

[@tonka9573]

The first part aged well, let's see how it goes with the second one

[@Khatmandude]

BrBa is loaded with visual reminders of Pulp Fiction.

[@crispusattucks4007]

Does Paton Oswald have some sort of contractual obligation to use the word “amazing” in every sentence?

[@screenwriterabdullahh.erak2778]

Like! Like! Like!

[@i_so_late]

anyone know what Tom says at 29:39? I can't quite make it out

[@owenedward144]

he’s referring to Kubrick’s narrative structure, “6-8 non-submersible units.” it’s basically 6-8 moments that function independently of one another, each with their own beginning, middle, and end.

[@CharmCityCrystals]

Good stuff! How the fug are ya Patton? Bobby Anderson here

[@TrumbullComic]

I love Patton just blatantly shilling for a job at the end. 😆

[@lindabegovich7463]

I wish the writers and producers would make a continuing show series staring Gus the chicken man and the 🛎 ding ding ding guy because they are ruthless . I know all the people who watched and loved Better Call Saul would also like this. These two guys with their stares are super creepy and make the show.

[@TheNimdude]

Some stories can just end. Let it go m8

[@fhowland]

Jesus, silence your notifications

[@flyingspaghettiauditor]

Ding

[@RobinHerzig]

Bring on Slippin' Kimmy 😏 I am soo ready

[@garrybaldy327]

I wonder if the fate of Kim Wexler is already written in stone, or if it is still up in the air in their minds as to whether she lives or dies.

[@KillerFix24]

Considering they started filming season 6 I think it’s safe to say her fate is already mapped out

[@pizzaface9213]

Patton looks so hot with the short, messy hair and the stubble 😍

[@tanertumkaya3369]

so inconsiderate of them to let the notification bell running on each freaking message!!!!! impossible to listen to!!!

[@UncleBernhard]

PLEASE! LET! THE! WOMAN! SPEAK! JESUS CHRIST!!!

[@09sethman]

im surprised he likes Better Call Saul...it doesnt have any naked children running around..its amazing he takes time away from binge watching CUTIES on netflix to see what Saul Goodman is doing!!

[@Littlekitten_]

Wait who are you referring too?

[@09sethman]

@@Littlekitten_ Pedo Patton oswalt

[@Dapryor]

Wut?

[@cashnelson2306]

tell us more, rumple foreskin