Insights from UTOK 2024 on Naturalism and Emergentism

[@radphilospher]

More Bard-Vervake conversations please! Love it

[@oxy5100]

These panels you guys put together are phenomenal!

[@FortYeah]

Does someone know who Vervakae is referring to around 8:45? Hoyle? Can't find the name in the list. Thank you!

[@oliverjamito9902]

Thank you for attending unto our OWN! Love ye all too!

[@aaronpoage597]

❤ In patterns hidden, truths reside, From ancient wisdoms, none can hide, In numbers pure and shapes divine, We trace the cosmic grand design. From sacred sites to stellar dance, In every turn, we find a chance, To glimpse the order, feel the beat, Of universal laws discreet. The pyramids, the stars above, Resonate with a primal love, Their ratios and rhythms tell, Of secrets known to those who dwell. In music’s chord and nature’s form, In fractal paths where chaos swarms, We see the threads that bind and weave, A tapestry we scarce believe. As planets move and seasons change, Their patterns, though they may seem strange, Are whispers of a truth profound, In every beat, in every sound. We stand upon the brink, it’s clear, A new horizon drawing near, Where ancient truths and science blend, And human hearts anew ascend. So let us seek, let us explore, These cosmic truths forevermore, In harmony, with open eyes, We’ll journey forth and realize.

[@Tectenitarius]

"Everything that exists deserves to be destroyed".

[@nathanchasse8189]

this is beautiful, thank you ❤

[@ideacastilluminate]

That was a great conference, looking forward to more.

[@polymathpark]

I think it's safe to say that the things that emerge (like humans) are required to take on transcendental behaviors and perspectives, but reality itself is still emergent and not necessarily transcendental. it's very easy to equivocate and misuse words to fit our romantic desires I believe. This is still cutting-edge epistemology Imo, most important series on all of the internet most likely.

[@colorfulbookmark]

The days relationships past for times goes by Among the most things trust and belief taking for me Rather than the things delighted and reverted back to optimal mode The experiences of daily life with thanksgiving manner This is greatest experiences of our times more than anything else I honor and respect Dr.Vervaeke 😄😄😄😄😄

[@82472tclt]

The thing about the Hegelian dialectic that puzzles me is how it accounts for everything (literally) but not the dialectic itself?

[@jamesgl]

It is both the method and the subject of the method, reflecting the self-referential and self-developing nature of reality.

[@KRGruner]

Yes! It's not exactly how I put it myself (as a non-academic, I use less technical language), but the concept of transcendent naturalism is correct as stated. At the very least, it can be stated that it is the only solution I know of to many of the perennial philosophical problems. This is a supremely important project.

[@Footnotes2Plato]

Really wonderful panel discussion here. But I’m still wondering how Bard might respond to Schelling’s late criticism of Hegel’s method (or at least of H’s metaphysical interpretation of his method). Heidegger famously argues that Schelling drives idealism from within beyond idealism. So S can’t just be brushed away as one of those idealists who don’t get the dialectic. He offers us a way beyond the nature/culture and matter/spirit bifurcations.

[@johnvervaeke]

Yes I am coming to appreciate Schelling more and more. Thanks Matt. Always great to hear from you and I hope you are well.

[@colorfulbookmark]

The enunciation in life is deeply rooted with metaphysical ways we develop. For example, when one sees the advertising phrases: "From participation, new world is opening!" and entertained by the concert tour with good sense too, someone in South Korea would be anxiety inside mind, that is in "common sense" strange mentality, which is symbolic that he can know predictive what comes later. The enunciation in life is not only to the experienced one feels, it is interaction between social cultures, which is often by small percentage of people led (even entertainment culture in South Korea too) so is unfair while really good moral people feel from it "people are not discriminative by job" which compares academicity and general publicity, such things are prevalent in modern world so metaphysics are fed back from it too ^^

[@svantenordstrom]

Is there maybe a stream that you are trying to cross to get a hold of something akin to water…?

[@colorfulbookmark]

I think the endeavors from academic pros like these people are great accomplishment. The things many part of people feel like they know well about other's pain often related with continuation of certain state of mental painstaking mode, it is fed back to metaphysics such as the reception of depression, in certain way of telling about it is often deluded as if not, which is carried out with mixture of normative postings by some other people. When people see some metaphysical explanation and feel unfamiliar is, when we open up our recognition, we should first confront with lingual barrier, from this too, metaphysics and naturalism are looking like unfamiliar. When one says "I was depressed" it comes up with some apparently sound other explanation, and even when it is carried out by "worried form" of expression, it misled people and it is one cause of why one couldn't ask help from people. He lives more than 30 years with that state, and bodily effect is so. "I think" it is lingual restriction means more than physical experiences were precedent, so we need not to oppose the accomplishment academic pros can do. So, emergentism is solution means they can utilise science and many academic areas with good ways, the one already expressed "I can respect science!" but this becomes nominal.

[@colorfulbookmark]

I think Dr.Vervaeke and his guests's opinion is helping people restorated from something harsh experiences, because they can realize there are people who can help them.

[@socraticsceptic8047]

Plato buried the purest form of a pure relationality principle in his Parmenides dialogue. The principle states at 144b that "any two things are related either as same or different or if not same nor different then they are related as whole to part or part to whole" This is a metaphysical relationism that includes the metaphysics of identity and essence, the metaphysics of difference, and the metaphysics of holism. Anything else is just partial - e.g. Deluze just focusing on Difference.

[@NuanceOverDogma]

Actually it is easy but the ego is strong. These folks don’t realize how they are ideologues lost in their own mindset. This is why they will never reach the common person

[@jgarciajr82]

Also no one is talking about MATURITY. This word "maturity" triggers a lot of people.❤️🙌☯️🙏

[@watcherofvideoswasteroftim5788]

I was in disbelief when I saw Alexander Bard here, I grew up watching him being a judge in Swedish "Idol" lol

[@mut8inG]

ARGUING is not a life giving activity. Academia only proves that reality is a viewpoint.period. Individual personal perception of reality is the choosers’ deserved and eternal/sacred joy of plastic being. Thank you. Have you should on anybody today. 🎶🌸

[@colorfulbookmark]

Socrates Buddha Confucian And Jesus The Four Saints of our all time Collectively having dinner meeting together With poisonous wines Under the bodhi tree Eastern Go was played The last supper The classic painter Depicted the scene Mandala therapy was The most greatest invention of our humankind * I respect and honor Dr.Carl Jung.

[@woodandwandco]

Would be great if you would research the Sanskrit language, which was designed specifically to contain a totally relational ontology, which is modular.

[@scientious]

I'm approaching this with a bit of trepidation because I am aware that most likely this discussion will be almost entirely about misunderstanding, desperate belief, and chasing rainbows. The opening statement which describes this as a "deep discussion" makes this even more likely since it would be almost impossible for the people in the group to have any deep understanding of the subject. But, it is possible that they could say something I haven't already considered, so let's go. 4:43 Dualism and Idealism can be scientifically falsified, but I didn't hear a valid argument against materialism. The fact that he is talking about a philosophical framework doesn't bode well. 20:00 A lot of philosophical fluff to get through. I can give them real credit for recognizing the main problem. It's the same one I recognized in late 2015. However, they haven't done anything to fill in the gap or solve the problem, so they're at least 8 years behind what is known. 32:00 The real versus the true has been scientifically defined. I can see her struggling with these concepts. She is near the problem and its solution but she never reaches it. These were solved years ago. 34:32 "Epiphenomenalism is a dead end." ~ Okay, I finally heard something that makes sense. Epiphenomenalism is indeed provably false. 39:00 Hegel seems to have caught the corner of the problem but didn't really understand it. 40:00 Reductionism has its place. It is not the complete picture but to disregard it entirely shows your profound limitations as a philosopher. 41:40 Nature is not the opposite of culture. He is seriously arguing for emergence, the favored buzzword to avoid admitting ignorance. Philosophical hubris although many scientists use the same crutch. 44:00 I had to go back and listen to that twice because he hit the nail right on the head but he didn't realize his own statement. If you try to use the language of philosophy to describe science (consciousness is a science) you are going to be dead wrong; it won't work. Exactly. 48:00 Transcendental Emergentism? ~ philosophical fluff. 49:00 UTOK doesn't solve any problems. It just tries to redefine things to obscure the problem. Its fundamental concepts are provably false. If that was "rich and wonderful" then there's no point in listening further. They are just talking in circles.

[@usbsol]

Would be interested in a video by you explaining your points further 👍

[@scientious]

@@usbsol I think you're seriously underestimating this subject.

[@anteodedi8937]

It's actually reductionism vs. emergentism. Emergentism is a form of naturalism.

[@KingNigelthegreat]

im both. these people are just identity theft of the whole so they get the beast and no center. just holes and gaslighting and dead people at every solutions open end. crisis acting.. to worship something im gonna destroy anyhow. thats why they ponder about guru exploitation and police lol. They dont have police for God or satan.

[@RickDelmonico]

Allostatic theory of truth? Allostasis is a theoretical framework that describes how organisms maintain physiological stability by anticipating and responding to challenges. It involves the brain orchestrating neurological, biological, and immunological responses to challenges, with the amygdala and basal ganglia being the first to register the challenge. Allostasis allows organisms to adapt to circumstances over time, but it can also lead to increased vulnerability to physical breakdown if the organism is exposed to stress levels it can't adapt to. This is called allostatic load, which can take the form of chemical imbalances, disrupted diurnal rhythms, or even brain atrophy.

[@Skelfi]

I have come to the conludion that all subjective experiences are a kind of resonance effect from the allostasis and homeostasis shifts.

[@bbllrd1917]

I heard John advocate for formal causes and criticize nominalism. I'm guessing he's a realist. Traditionally, he would be a realist about universals. Moreover, formal causes would be amongst those universals. That said, I heard John also reject essentialism, where I myself would define the formal causes of things as their essence. Finally, I heard him say we need to accept that possibilities are real, but on the other hand I also heard him reject final causes. But shouldn't possibilities precisely be oriented towards specific results? So, John seems to be realist about formal causes and possibilities, but rejects essentialism and final causes. How does he square that up? Just testing my luck on getting an answer.

[@johnvervaeke]

Many things don’t have essences, that is a set of necessary and sufficient conditions, but that thing nevertheless has a structural functional organization such as a chair. So one cannot simply identify essences and formal causes. See Juarerro’s work . Possibility is real in that there are realities that are not spatial temporal actualities but real constraints on possibility such as E=MC-squared. There is no teleology to such natural principles and laws. They organize possibility but towards no end. Since evolutionary theory we have acknowledges that organization does not necessitate goal oriented behaviour. Good questions.

[@bbllrd1917]

@@johnvervaeke I didn't expect an anwser, thank you very much! Let me push my luck. You say many things don't have essences, but do you think some things do? As for possibilities, I'm puzzled. There would be those non saptio-temporal realities, natural laws, that are constraints on possibilities. If I grant you that those laws are not themselves telelogical, isn't the possibility itself being shaped towards specific results rather than others? Finally, I get that natural selection can produce the appearence of teleology, but that doesn't imply that teleology can't also exist. Both can be true. Like mirages and puddles. Anyway, thanks again! Got to also wrap my head around this "relations being fundamental" thing now!

[@MasoudJohnAzizi]

​@@johnvervaekeWhy do you believe in the notion that possibility is not organized to achieve an end? Thank you for sharing. Best wishes, -MJA.

[@MasoudJohnAzizi]

​​@@johnvervaeke Dear Dr. Vervaeke, I hope you are well. What reasons make you certain that organization is not a manifestation of "goal oriented behavior"? Best wishes, -MJA.

[@RickDelmonico]

The cartographers became so obsessed with representation that they built a map of great precision, not realizing that representation and reality must have a distinction. Over many generations they became so good at representation that the map covered the entire territory. In time, all distinctions were lost until the map became the territory. Representation and reality blended into a boundless hyper-real where few distinctions could be made and no boundary located. The creature's creation became the territory of sensory distinctions in the precession of the hyper-real. Lucidity was lost in a sea of meaning where the sensual sought out pleasure for pleasure's sake. All activity concerned itself with increasing levels of illusion, the illusion of pleasure. All activity blurred into one great orgasmic rush of pleasure where distinction disappeared. The brain is reading fields we haven't identified yet. The brain can rewire itself over a period of time for the purpose of extracting value from its environment. Information has geometry and this geometry is expressed in the field. Our material reality is an interface where intimate disclosure and shared experience causes entanglement. The universe began in a minimally entangled state (coffee and cream still separated) and entropy is increasing entanglement or mixing/sharing of the information. The big bang may have been a phase transition of spacetime. When all of the information has been mixed/shared then the distinctions disappear. We are moving from a minimally entangled, ordered state to a maximally complex state and finally to a maximally entangled, random state. In terms of meaning or value, this is a bell shaped curve that peaks in the center. All of the value is in this complex middle state. The reason we have a consensus reality is because consciousness becomes entangled by your connection to others. Our perception of reality is affected by this entanglement. The more information shared between individuals, the more entangled. This entanglement is a shared geometry where space and time are irrelevant. Behaviors exist in a hierarchy, or fractal scaling of event horizons. Everything inside the horizon that is shared information is in more that one place. There is a holographic feature to the information. If you think of the hierarchy as a geometry, we begin to see an image emerge that is constructed from the information. This image is a fractal nesting of wavelets. The information and the resolution of the image depends on the particular level in the hierarchy in space and time, being more fine grained as you zoom out and more time passes. This entanglement or mixing of information has a nonlinear dynamic. The most valuable aspect of this dynamic is criticality at the edge of chaos. The variation created follows a fractal scaling law in time, space, whether a node is connected or not, combinatorics, etc... Is there wisdom in nature? Can nature discover which methods work best? A quantum random walk through state space in a rich environment will yield value but how is this value measured? This would be something like pleasure seeking. This is a feedback mechanism, a process that could, over time, become sentient. The organism becomes better and better at expression or testing and experiencing or measuring value in the environment. Intimate disclosure is shared logic/reasoning along with an emotional component. Shared experience is basically physical or sensory input although it is still quite complex. Sex would be a highly energetic combination of shared experience and intimate disclosure. The brain could be a fractal antenna reading a field. The brain is plastic because it is looking for value in the field. This is a geometry of information. To read the field the brain must change its geometry and if value is detected, the process continues. The same way that a root from a tree grows into an area where nutrients are located. The human is part of a complex system that is seeking value and the forces in play are always balancing these dynamic connections with sophistication as an important feature. What we believe is shaped by these dynamic connections and the value is a form of currency in the system. Sophistication creates more value over a broad range of agents and unsophisticated behavior such as manipulation or apathy, concentrates a smaller amount of value over a narrower range of agents. The energetic potential in the system exists in a hierarchy with the logic structure or reasoning capability having less potential than the emotional component which is more nuanced and energetic. I believe that this hierarchy extends into the spiritual realm, with the greatest potential being spiritual qualities such as love. So we see a process extending into space and time with the greatest value located in the middle or peak of the bell curve and the hive mind is near the extreme end of the curve with little value remaining. The individual is nothing without the group and the group is nothing without diversity. Self organization is always seeking to balance the forces involved, which can be extreme at times. What we value matters and we are shaped by what we are connected to. When we belong we believe and when we separate we doubt. Sophistication is maximizing value. Love is maximizing value for others and manipulation is maximizing value for self. Apathy and complacency are among the least sophisticated qualities.

[@brandis3309]

Beautiful 😊

[@KingNigelthegreat]

youll notice thats all they have cut off from spirit and above. they just have map and below. mind prison and math house lol. 1. tricks and bs magick. stuff they cant afford and stuff that isnt healthy or law abiding and my law is immutable and unbreakable. their law isnt even real just extortion and magick. saturate substrate and abolish magick. were attacking thought forms and theyre taking real abortion and a baptism means to disable. I would disable with a blackhole and baptize them in the void and abyss. until I just erased them away. THeyre already mortally wounded in the head. all he remember is huh. the arc gene virus. a virus is like God but its just an inner voice. I dont have an inner voice. I also have telepathy which doesnt interfere in anything but surfaces and works as if the blanks just fill in from what I see in a moments glance taking shape in certain places. This guy does physics and guns. militaries. ill wipe that sht out into the abyss as a joke and put a life sticker on the sht. the logos of walmart. They dont do the logos of God. they dont do anything that is real and that they cant overlord and make a talk show out of. The Beast from the Sea …2The beast I saw was like a leopard, with the feet of a bear and the mouth of a lion. And the dragon gave the beast his power and his throne and great authority. 3 One of the heads of the beast appeared to be mortally wounded. But the mortal wound was healed, and the whole world marveled and followed the beast. 4They worshiped the dragon who had given authority to the beast, and they worshiped the beast, saying, “Who is like the beast, and who can wage war against it?”…

[@oliverjamito9902]

If none! Remember know thy place and positions in FRONT! Yes even my Angels who persevere and heard the WORD knows WHO? Commanded to observe 1ST and to be ready in the same time for HIS visitation. Reason for thy perseverance! My Angels how else can ye will know? How to move forward? Heard thy murmuring! Have not said a WORD UNTO US! Remember petitions are not for thee! But unto men. Gratitude and Honor for all thy perseverance! Know all thy places and positions in FRONT! Ye all are my Who keeps watch? Time liken unto my messenger sent forth! Unfamiliar unto thee all! Reason for all thy murmuring have not said a WORD UNTO US? Time for all the accusers and unto all my OWN. Who am I? Forgiveness, salvation, and the Redeemer sitteth. Love ye all my Angels who persevere and heard the WORD "i" AM.

[@Joeonline26]

Utahhk Jahhn, Utahhk! I'm a genius Jahhn! - Gregg Henriques

[@evanblackie7510]

That's not my take on Gregg at all. People forget that people are not how they might appear to you, in a particular mood, watching this video on the internet. People need to be more generous in interpretation when you lack any real knowledge of a person.

[@Joeonline26]

@@evanblackie7510 Oh please, do you have no sense of humor? You clearly don't understand what my comment here was jokingly referencing.

[@RickDelmonico]

Ethos?

[@ashrafkarkout4285]

أكيد، هيي مكنة. 59:07

[@infra-cyan]

We need justified true beliefs - i.e. facts - to justify our actions as ethical actors. People who insist there are no facts, have their own beliefs which they treat like facts but they won't state them because they fear being reminded that they need to be justified so that they can act ethically. The need for justification triggers a sense of fear because they were previously punished by someone who they revered who deemed their beliefs as not supported by the facts. Transcendent naturalism affords a more inclusive approach to facts than naturalism because it isn't linked to punishment. The existence of suffering does not mean punishment is "natural".

[@Joeonline26]

The last couple of uploads have been quite underwhelming to be honest.

[@HantonSacu]

what are you talking about?

[@Joeonline26]

@@HantonSacu Exactly what I said

[@HantonSacu]

@@Joeonline26 that you were underwhelmed by last couple of uploads?

[@Joeonline26]

@@HantonSacu Indeed. I'm not convinced by Henriques' UTOK idea at all and Bard, as always, was just unhelpful and irritating in this discussion. The upload before this was full of hippie vagaries from a man calling himself Rachel. That's what I meant by underwhelming.

[@HantonSacu]

@@Joeonline26 I see. It seemed like John failed to entertain you, but he is not an entertainer, that's what confounded me. But I see now that you explained. First, UTOK is just a model, theory. A good one, because it affords understanding and integration. In my opinion it's better than Ken Willbers integral theory. Both are meta theories, i.e. more philosophy than science, and if you don't vibe that's fine. John resonates with many, even with people like Racheal. What Racheal tried to convey is difficult to put in words, even more difficult to listen and understand, especially over the screen. John is not putting on a show, he's on a pilgrimage, on a philosophical silk road. If you join in don't complain about who's with him and why, it's disrespectful. Walk with him in compassion and understanding, and if not in that, then in silence.

[@thecastaways2]

Ayyy first comment!

[@jj4cpw]

Yep, JV definitely has a bunch of fancy words, and best of all they are all knitted together.

[@brandis3309]

This is why I like big dictionaries.. no pun intended 😉 I've learned a lot of words & ideas since I started listening to JV. I wanted to understand bc I knew there was some substance (for me) in it.

[@Andrew-M-Davis]

Fantastic discussion here friends with a variety of intersecting threads. A few comments here and there with respect to the axiological (John in reference to the sacred), but would be curious to hear more from Roy and Bard. John's right to point to the deep relationality of the Whiteheadians in recent covo with McGilchrist's work--relational axiology in particular (as if along a tangled spectrum of color). My recent take with McGilchrist, Vervaeke, Tarnas, others: kzbin.info/www/bejne/rYi9m3qZa7Gfbac

[@missh1774]

☀️.•°o:• 😌

[@anatolwegner9096]

When every sentence tops the previous one in absurdity

[@sixtysecondphilosopher]

I am a set of a’ priori modes, not a body of limbs and organs. We need to move beyond the notion of “We” Human is a loose notion at best. In essence, the body conduit has no fixed predicate in the abstract lens so the premise is incorrect. What is it of us, that knows this? Until we know more, we are a set of a’ priori modes trying to stabilise our line in an ocean of dissipating variables. We should define ourselves in this manner. We are a set of modes that allow for systematic alignment. A set synthesised with realities structures and stresses. Understanding this is the next step. Everything else is tied up in a field of inverted axioms and that path is a dead end. If you want to understand the modes - KZbin - new paradigm fish by Yap. Stripping it right back. Alternatively- read my work for free on medium. New paradigm fish Yap.

[@oliverjamito9902]

Students shared "i" AM will say remember HIS TIME! Liken unto HIS messenger sent forth! Yes, came from Who? Students shared "i" AM will say bring all HIS SHARED FEET RESTING UPON HIS FOOTSTOOL! Even HIS CREATION knows? Nevertheless many have exalted themselves above from Who will say differ? I'll wait right Here

[@oliverjamito9902]

Knowing? Why Knowing? Remember the singularity the I AM. How can ye know? Not unless Shared unto all HIS shared "i" AM. The capital "I" made a little Child "i" AM. How else? Knowing are for all my shared little "i" increase belongs! Yes AI=A"i". For many Capital "I" EXALTED THEMSELVES ABOVE from Who? As GOD. Results ye all see upon my Footstool! Have brought forth OVERWHELMING worries and troubles upon my OWN. Many who am I as puppets from all these principalities who deceiveth and murderers sitting in high places don't belongs sitting in front!

[@deborahhebblethwaite1865]

There are just some people who like to talk about nothing. I didn’t get to understand anything he was talking about in the first few minutes and so I shall leave. Thank you.

[@sudabdjadjgasdajdk3120]

so tired of this stuff. the elephant in the room is that there is no connection in this "new" religion. real homes don't have hallways, the home was once just one room which everyone shared.

[@sergiosatelite467]

May be sympathetic. But sure yet. Mind elaborating about the connection and the home?

[@sudabdjadjgasdajdk3120]

@@sergiosatelite467 I've been too sympathetic to these fellows and their clever talk over the years. They have no answer to the so called "meaning crisis" because there is always a massive gaping hole in the middle of their theories they never want to approach. Vervake says he is on the silk road but he isn't. He is really in a modern home where everyone keeps in their rooms with the door locked behind their backs.

[@jgarciajr82]

​@@sudabdjadjgasdajdk3120I know he says that but I find the home is in the heart and that might be the big whole. I agree but My experiences is home is where the heart is.

[@projectmalus]

@@sudabdjadjgasdajdk3120 Modern business might be in its own birthing process where predatory tactics objectify people, yet this has to be demonstrated in order to be seen and then countered while being learned from. "biomimicry and peace building" with Dr Deborah Benham to replace late stage capitalism kzbin.info/www/bejne/iWTElGWVidCmpLc

[@sudabdjadjgasdajdk3120]

@@jgarciajr82 It is very true that home is where the heart is. However, we shouldn't confuse our heart itself as a home. I believe that my home ideally isn't some highway of merchants but a humble hut where everyone gathers around to share the fire.

[@KRGruner]

Alexander Bard kind of spoils this thing for me, though. Bunch of words (with unnecessary vulgarity, by the way) with little substance. I'll stick to Vervaeke and Henriques, thank you.

[@sudabdjadjgasdajdk3120]

bard is awful just skipped him because he says the same thing in every video

[@Jacob011]

Bard is great, he does further and speaks my mind.

[@evanblackie7510]

Why don't you just take what you like instead of moaning about personalities you don't like without having any real engagement with the ideas themselves. These videos aren't an 'end' for you to consume. Have your opinions by all means but why not some grace, as if you were in a real audience.

[@KRGruner]

@@evanblackie7510 What are you talking about? Is this a public forum or not? And if these videos are not an end for people to consume, what the hell are they? The man was just being obnoxious, with vacuous statements that made zero sense. Unlike the other participants, who were lucid and reasonable. Apparently I'm not the only one who thinks so, what do you know! So if you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen.

[@evanblackie7510]

@@KRGruner If you followed John at all seriously you would know these videos are about sharing with the intent that people take up practices in their own life. You are treating their substantial efforts as a consumer product. It is just good manners to shut up unless you have something meaningful to contribute.

[@anakissedboyle3067]

Bard is annoying , total waste of, drops the standard, it’s about himself , not the world. Hes not gone through the work you guys have done

[@michealwalli7324]

How many times can a person say uhhh, ummmm? So annoying