Humans and Forerunners - Our Forgotten History - Lore and Theory

[@thermalvision203]

So basically, the Forerunners are monke? Jokes aside, I actually really like this theory because it fixes a lot of the problems and inconsistencies with the current Halo lore, and adds in the ultimate irony that the Covenant were genociding the designated survivors of their gods.

[@minitooth]

Well I mean... the only reason they hate humanity is because a forerunner console said " humanity is to claim all we have ever built, no one elce is worthy" or something like that. All because the prophet species is so egotistical that they cant handle letting humanity take charge

[@taufiqislam8935]

"Reject modernity, embrace monke" - craig

[@eggburger5978]

REJECT HUMANITY, BECOME MONKE!!!!

[@charlesw5919]

Monke Aeternum!!!

[@ur-didact1991]

No, we made you monke

[@didlybobidly9721]

In one of the books, master chief notes how odd it is that he instinctually knows how to operate certain pieces of covenant tech such as the wraith. Covenant tech is based off of forerunner tech.

[@ericpowell4350]

The Librarian wrote that genetic knowledge into human DNA after being forced to deevolve them.

[@dougsmith6262]

I think they called it a "geas". So basically the Forerunners gave humans certain instinctual predispositions towards things like developing AI and advanced combat armor.

[@bipbapthegrunt]

@@dougsmith6262 Or a genesong

[@northwiebesick7136]

@@ericpowell4350 exactly what I was going to mention... I'm pretty sure that Master chief didn't know anything about all that until the librarian came and fully activated the genesong(although he might not have fully understood it, even afterwards)... At least, I assume that's what she did... Another thing, the dude said first thing in the video that the didact(or whoever it was) was the only forerunner still alive, and yet, all life workers, even the librarian were said to be forerunner, so does that vision or whatever it was, of the librarian, then mean that at the very least there are 2 forerunners alive??? Or could a composed mind put into an AI for instance, appear, and interact with humans as described???

[@nick-314]

I think it was when he activates the first light bridge on Halo, Cortana asks how he knew and he's just like idk, just kinda did

[@terpfen]

OK, that's it. I demand you force your way into the writers' room at 343 and refuse to leave until they listen to you.

[@amdkillaplays]

Sounds like someone is doing exactly that at Ubisoft

[@johnparsons7517]

Or hire him...

[@John2r1]

@@johnparsons7517 Agree and they should hire people with military experience to design vehicles and gear. If you think about it Halo is supposed to be us 500 years from now and their still wearing modern armor when we are working on exoskeletons for common foot soldier's today.

[@Ser-Lusacan]

@@John2r1 they spent most of the 500 years focusing on space flight and FTL travel witch ended up being slipspace travel

[@John2r1]

@@Ser-Lusacan They honestly spent most of thst time fighting each other just like to day. While some scientist and engineers where trying to get off this rock. The UEG only took an interest in the scientist work because Earth was becoming over populated. Then we started spreading out to other world's. The UNSC was founded as a military force to deal with a civil war then it became the primary military force in human controlled space. In other words exactly what we have spent thousands of years doing already. Thinking of new and interesting ways to kill each other over this rock we call Earth.

[@twojacksandanace3847]

"The Progenitors" 343 watching this video: Write that down!

[@tyvernoverlord5363]

Everyone One: plz no, don't....

[@poseidonetn.u.s.ebranch2610]

​@@tyvernoverlord5363 I get where you're coming from, the latest games haven't really been the best. But to be honest this isn't the worst idea. It just has to be implemented right. That's the only issue. Implementation. As much as I want 343 to capture the same feeling of the older games with quality. The story needs to actually accomplish something along the way. It can't constantly just be "Fight to save the human race" any story can get old if you constantly follow the same basic idea (look at Bethesda)

[@EmeraldEdge72]

Your theory is sound and I can sense your dedication to the lore and story. Have you ever thought about making your own stories?

[@thatlaughingguy2636]

Check out reclaimer gaming, he makes lore and theory videos, one of which, if noble 6 survived

[@chrissonofpear1384]

I've got one of my own, in fairly large detail, if he's interested: www.fanfiction.net/u/7240238/CaptChris42

[@midwestr3gul8r98]

Bro right? He should total write a book on something lore

[@thatlaughingguy2636]

Reclaimer gaming?

[@Installation00]

I am. Search for Fireteam Ares here on KZbin. My own creation. Enjoy! Its only the beginning.

[@hawk9664]

The way you frame the story between Forerunners and humans seems quite biblical. It's like Cain and Abel. Tested by God and when Abel is favoured over Cain, he strikes out against him. Chronologically this links up nicely with the already existing religious references and influence in the franchise. In particular Cain's descendants facing annihilation from the "Flood" and the building of an "Ark".

[@Nathan-vt1jz]

I think your analysis is spot on. At the very least it echos the biblical themes.

[@matthewjames6826]

Sounds very plausible to me even likely. But the past is a hard maze to navigate.

[@unscinfinity3337]

No you are missing one thing what if The said species were not created by precursors but was instead devolved by the precursors. what if the progenitors were as advanced as precursors and hence posed a threat to them so they devolved them into two new species?

[@davemccombs]

Or they didn't write it or left it ambiguous on purpose and you're all dumpster diving.

[@PJ6300gaming]

@@davemccombs hey man you can find some pretty good shit dumpster diving. I once found an entire server pc in a dumpster.

[@Slender_Man_186]

@@davemccombs aaand that aged horribly, Marty O’Donnel confirmed the Forerunners were humans in Bungie’s lore. Oh, and before you bring up Halo 3’s terminals, they don’t *once* actually contradict humans being Forerunner, they also have blatant lore errors like the Librarian burying the portal at Voi before it could be used to reseed life in the galaxy, and she also remotely blew up the keyships lol.

[@jaredbryant8297]

This is the original direction of Halo while under Bungie

[@VeritasVortex]

I could've sworn that Bornstellar mentioned something about the possibility of humans and forerunners being related

[@devkrovil]

Humanity and the forerunners were originally one race, but the precursors split them into two races out of fear of what they could become. Upon discovering this, the forerunners hated the precursors. The passing of the mantle was the last straw.

[@Freelancer837]

@Sus master sus The Precursors made every race besides the Engineers

[@music79075]

​@@devkrovilwhere was that said?

[@DANEMAN5]

I’ve literally always been hung up on when spark tells chief specifically “*You* *ARE* Forerunner!” ... then was kinda surprised at halo 4 lol.

[@Kai3Music]

Oh, this one has an easy explanation. It's called "retconning" and "bad writing." The kids these days are colloquially calling it, "Pulling a Frank O'Connor."

[@centurymemes1208]

@@Kai3Music nice joke but no. forerunner trilogy > no established species with so many questions left out

[@thelouster5815]

@@centurymemes1208 Now THAT’S a funny joke.

[@centurymemes1208]

@@thelouster5815 exactly! like bubgie retconning themselves at halo 3 and halo reach

[@Freelancer837]

Yeah, it's because it was retconned when a different studio and people started working on the series

[@-eyes-of-static-8102]

Damn I got here so early that the Precursor star roads are still laying all over the Milky Way galaxy

[@ol6halodude577]

🤣🤣👍

[@Slender_Man_186]

It was never really “hidden,” it was confirmed twice in 2007, first in Halo 3 then again in Contact Harvest, both written by Joe Staten Guilty Spark: “You ARE Forerunner! But this ring is mine!” Mendicant Bias: “Listen to you misinterpret. This is not ‘reclamation,’ this is ‘reclaimer,’ *and those it represents are my makers.”*

[@BirdheadedScholar868]

Are you going through mid-life crisis? The first half sounds like it. Edit: Just finished watching the video and wow! That makes a lot of sense and would explain the similarities between humanity and forerunners.

[@dr.catherineelizabethhalse1820]

I mean the fact that it has been said they are both created by Precursors already explains it but it could be that they were not created separately from the beginning. I think Librarian was curious of the similarities on the genetic level.

[@BirdheadedScholar868]

@@dr.catherineelizabethhalse1820 That is true. Thought if Humanity and the Forerunners were created directly from the Precursors I do wonder what the original genetic template was for both species. And with the existence of the Yonet, I think this is how it's spelled, one can't help but wonder if the humans and forerunners were the only ones based of this template. However, if the two races did descend from an original Progenitor race, how is it that we have a fossil record that details the steps that lead to Homo Saipem Saipem? Is Earth the original home of Humanity and Forerunners? Or had the Progenitors that went to Earth got a little...frisky for a lack of a more appropriate term.

[@chrissonofpear1384]

@@BirdheadedScholar868 It may be - though the Bear novels heavily hint Earth may NOT have been the original homeworld. Nor was perhaps Ghibalb the Forerunner's one?

[@BirdheadedScholar868]

@@chrissonofpear1384 Then that begs the question, where is the progenitors home world now?

[@chrissonofpear1384]

@@BirdheadedScholar868 We have little to go on. Though it was hinted the Forerunners destroyed their own home, accidentally. Maybe more than once.

[@JGooden762]

This all makes tremendous sense and I won't be surprised if it ends up being true. That said, I'd like to add some things: On a previous video, I commented about the Flood kind of being the protagonists in the Halo universe if the Flood is a biological weapon created by the Precursors to cleanse the universe of life in order to reintegrate their creations into the universe itself. How since all beings die anyway and return to the greater universe that the Precursors win either way and how the Precursors are like Brahma in Hindu mythology - distinct parts of the greater transentient whole. That would mean that the Forerunners, the humans, and every other sentient species are only manifestations of the universe itself that exist only at the pleasure of the universe, ie, the Precursors. That would make it seem like succumbing to the Flood is inevitable, which the Gravemind and the Primordial's words seem to indicate. That would negate the concept of free will and turn sentient existence into a mere puppetry act perpetrated by the Precursors. What if, however, that is precisely what the true conflict in the Halo universe is really all about? What if the great lie of the Flood and the Precursors has been that they are the only ones with the authority to represent the will of the universe? What if the very creation of other sentient species opened up the possibility of the Precursors being replaced? What if the true destiny of humanity, the destiny that the Forerunners strived and failed to achieve, is to become a transentient race? If the true destiny of humanity is to become the new Precursors and take the mantle of responsibility not just of the galaxy, but of the entire universe, essentially becoming gods in the process, wouldn't that account for the Gravemind and the Primordial's deceptions? I think that the perspective of everyone in the Halo universe has been so focused on conflicts between species that they have missed this important point: the Flood will always win in the end unless one species throws off the bonds of mere sentience and becomes transentient. Only then could the Flood be truly and completely defeated. Humanity must be the species to do this - starting with Master Chief. I think the Librarian knew that Master Chief would need to become the first transentient human in order to defeat the Flood. That's why she granted him access to the Domain - a Precursor technology based on neuralphysics. Chief's access to the Domain will allow him to crack the code of transentience and become more than just human. More than any other being in the universe. And what better way to end the story of the Master Chief than by him becoming the ultimate hero - sacrificing his mortal and finite humanity to become one with the Universe - by becoming a god and showing the rest of humanity how to do the same? What irony that Chief would be the one to lead humanity into a real Great Journey where the trail wouldn't end in the annihilation of sentient life, but in the evolution of sentience into transentience? (I imagine the belief system of the Covenant could have been based on the misinterpretation of this very concept). So, the real enemy has always been the Precursors/the Flood trying to curtail other species from achieving what they have. I would play that game/read that book/watch that movie...

[@BoisegangGaming]

Honestly, I wish 343i would call ancient humanity "The Antediluvians" or something like that so we don't have to specify ancient.

[@DCJMS]

pre Flood humanity = Antediluvian, brilliant bastard :)

[@chadmaple2411]

@@DCJMS he probably got it from one of the halo 2 songs antediluvian which plays right when Tartarus receives the sacred icon

[@DCJMS]

@@chadmaple2411 :o

[@ol6halodude577]

A fellow scriptural believer- fan! Humanity before the Scriptural flood (pun? fact?). God bless us all!

[@BoisegangGaming]

@@ol6halodude577 I'm actually nontheist, but thanks, I guess?

[@BoisegangGaming]

Honestly, I kind of like having no concrete answer. Having this major gap in the lore makes it feel more mythological, ancient, and epic.

[@LMG1792]

As I think guilty sparks makes mention in a terminal video or maybe it was Cortona in legends some questions are better left unanswered

[@argo9721]

Yeah I would rather have them hint to it then just give us an answer

[@Xavieus]

That intro alone earns you a spot in the writers room

[@maxhydekyle2425]

The modern Halo lore is cool, don't get me wrong, but I think Bungie's original plan was much better. It was simple and fascinating.

[@xXx_Regulus_xXx]

dazzle the player with exotic aliens and incredible technology, but then bring everything back home when you realize that these beings were chasing wonders our ancestors built. Then back around to the fascinating aliens again with the Precursors etc.

[@Kirostratus]

I believe it’s all but stated in Halo: Primordim, page: 336 “Could Forerunners and humans be recombined and reverse their shivering asunder so many millions of years before?” That being said, if all of these records were stored within the domain, and it has been damaged/parts of it erased/censored for the sake of intentionally (or even unintentionally) keeping information from those who access the domain, we could simply be dealing with an ‘unreliable narrator’ situation.

[@charlescilek2281]

Now this! This is my kind of deep-dive, logically supported, insane, mind-blowing theory which keeps me coming again and again and keeps me excited for halo even in these dark, dry times. You’ve done a good thing here, Mr. 00

[@CrawfordPrime]

That would make a lot of sense, especially with how similar an unmutated forerunner and a human look so similar, not to mention the similar design aesthetic found in both species because if you look at CE forerunner and human architecture and form they’re similar with the angled struts. Also ancient humans and forerunner designs are similar it’s just the ancient humans are more organic looking in form but that could be from interactions with the prophet species. Not to mention humans and forerunners have similar anatomy it’s just that forerunners are much more into altering their evolution as oppose to humanity.

[@jaimevalencia6271]

I always wondered why humans could activate the halo rings but other species could not I assumed cause we were forunners like you said but 343 redacted that and made us different? Can someone explain if I’m wrong

[@Ghostvirus]

Generally this is explained as a Geas from the Librarian to enable mankind to become the Reclaimers. But like Installation 00 says in the video there are reasons to think that the Forerunners and Humanity are still connected in the newer interation of the story. I've talked about this for years on the forums, and Haruspis has put out a blog post or two on the topic which are worth reading as supplemental material.

[@OfficialFedHater]

Yeah, originally it was one of the not so subtle hints that humans were Forerunners, right up until Guilty Spark straight up says, "you are forerunner". And the fact that Cortana can just straight up figure out Forerunner tech pretty quick is down not just to her being a big brain AI, but because the Forerunners and humanity had the same way of thinking in regards to the creation of technology... because they were the same.

[@00Anon117]

@@OfficialFedHater Some humans even had an almost innate and intuitive understanding of forerunner UI. Chief if I recall correctly, stated that there was a familiarity to it in the novel The Flood.

[@00Anon117]

Early on I believe Bungie may have intended the Forerunners and Ancient Humanity to be one and the same. This was made especially evident by some of Guilty Sparks quotes in Halo CE, but they can now be interpreted as him referring to his past as a Human and to the Iso-Didact geas in the MasterChief. I believe the geas/gene song was even mentioned in a CEA terminal.

[@chrissonofpear1384]

@@00Anon117 Yes, the idea was in the original Halo story bible, then altered going into Halo 3, especially with the Terminals. The later Greg Bear novels re-open the door by heavily hinting both species have the same root origins.

[@punchline1279]

The idea of the forerunners being ancient humans sounds cooler than what we got imo. The theory you came up with Is insane and I love it.

[@tyshingleton7005]

'The Expanse' on Amazon video does a fantastic job of portraying how humans can evolve and be affected by life in space or an alien planet like Mars.

[@theghostofjeffgoldblumdail9613]

I assumed that since Guilty Spark and the Gravemind acted like Chief was a forerunner, that he was either A, some sort of reincarnation of the Iso-Didact, the Librarian somehow was able to encode a program inside of ancient humans that contained the Iso-Didact's mind and DNA inside them, and those humans were Chief's ancestors, or B, Guilty Spark was so rampant he could honestly not tell the difference between Chief and the Iso-Didact, and the Gravemind calls Chief the child of his enemy either because he was a reclaimer and that's what he meant, or when he captured 2401 Pennitent Tangent, he absorbed all of the info in his mind and since Tangent was likely rampant at the time of Halo 2, that carried over to the Gravemind and like Spark, had become so insane that he honestly could not tell the difference between the two.

[@thewerdna]

I mean, the idea that Chief had Iso-diadact's geas is pretty much 343's way ti explain all the stuff that previously hinted that humanity and forerunners were the same

[@ol6halodude577]

It’s late and my ADHD- driven rampancy is taking over. So, I will re-read your argument after I sleep. Right now it’s too folded- up convoluted for me to understand 😀

[@theghostofjeffgoldblumdail9613]

@@ol6halodude577 sorry for my bad grammar pal

[@dr.catherineelizabethhalse1820]

Probably a bit of both. Master Chief most likely carries geas but they may not connect to Didact too deeply. Rampant 343 was confused because of this or just because he was rampant.

[@danteaghoulfromspace2996]

If this theory isnt correct, i think ill assume this too, very well thought out jeff!

[@Ruiluth]

Just read Halo: Contact Harvest (**by Joe Staten**) where Mendicant Bias literally says "These are my makers" and the prophets respond with "Wait, humans are forerunners who were left behind?" Honestly I hate everything about what 343 did with the forerunners. They shredded all the mystery. They changed their aesthetic from the unique, austere, stoic monastic feel of the original trilogy to just generic sci fi glowy floaty bits. They invented all this history and characterization and story of the beings who were literally defined by being unknown and enigmatic. And on top of it, they stopped telling stories about the flood, which was possibly the most unique and interesting thing in the Halo universe. The 343 vision for Halo is cool in its own way... but it's generic and uninspired. It could have been so much more and that just makes me sad.

[@argo9721]

I agree with that last statement, like the Flood are so cool why not have more stories about them?

[@TikoPiko]

This encapsulates my feeling about Halo. 343i went full B-movie on the series.

[@argo9721]

@CosmosTF I thought awakening the night was awesome and it made want see the flood More So I hope they come up again personally

[@chrissonofpear1384]

Staten and O'Conner had differing visions, but BOTH worked on Halo 3 (and some on IRIS too) and that was where the seeds of ALL of this was first sown, including the separate by related species arc. And Primordium and Silentium both back up the two species are related.

[@ARK1X]

This is why I think more people like you should be working at 343, specifically in their story/narrative development department.

[@berges104]

One book mentioned that Humanity went to the Stars and lost a lot of history of those times and prior. Even that Earth was the Point of Origin. I thought the Forerunner homeworld was lost to history. They did obscure the details of genocide vs the Precursors...

[@schwig44]

nah, forerunners knew which planet was their starter, they had to leave it though cause the first time they started messing around with stellar engineering, they were idiots and did it on their OWN home star. Experiments went wrong and the planet got fried extra crispy. That was many millions of years before the forerunner flood war

[@TheAlphadark]

@@schwig44 Yea thought the same but still doesn't discount humans being apart of there genic history. Perhaps they were picked out of humans and advanced in a way that push them to more synthetic evolution. In Order to distance themselves from genic cousins so to speak and to make them more technological advance. Would add fuel to the fire for there betrayal, They scarified so much and pushed themselves that being rejected made them bitter. Because the giving a task and the did so much for it and were rejected after it all.

[@schwig44]

@@TheAlphadark I see where you're coming from, but it was actually the hunmans who sacrificed to prove their worthiness of the mantle, they sacrificed 1/3 of their pop to the flood and it went away of it's own volition, so it could turn it's eyes towards the forerunners for revenge for the previous genocide against the precursors. I think you may be correct that they are cousins, in the sense that we are with celery. We all came from a single common ancestor, and I have no problem with a halo theory that implies the same on galactic scales for the intelligent races, even if that "common ancestor" is less of a progenitor and more of a creator (the precursors, they didn't reproduce a zillion times and become humanity or forerunners, it is rumored they breathed life into both species from scratch, possibly from a shared schematic/design [look into body plans in reference to biology].)

[@IceLordCryo]

This theory of common ancestry actually makes a lot of sense when you look at the scale of how much time all the events in the lore take place in.

[@cobrajeff96]

Seems to me that H4's plot line suggests that the Librarian paved some paths for humanity. She was the one who imprisoned the Didact and turned his Prometheans against him, at least initially. She aided Halsey in Spartan Ops. It seems plausible she made it easier for humanity to interface with their technology, maybe as a last act. But I do agree with you that the 'missing link' hypothesis is also plausible. Maybe it's a mixture of both!

[@StrifeA217]

I would still argue that the line from the grave mind "child of my enemy" is still a reference to Ancient Humans and not the Forerunners, reading some of the books and watching lore videos (lots of yours) I always got the feeling that Ancient Humans were starting to gain a footing against the flood before encountering and being attacked by the Forerunners. It was the war on 2 fronts that ultimately ended Ancient Humans, as far as to why when the Forerunners learned the truth about the flood they continued to attack the humans was because of the Didact himself. If i recall correctly his extreme hate for humanity came from the fact that his sons (I believe he had 2) were killed during the Human Forerunner war. So in learning the truth of the flood and the cause for the Humans pushing into Forerunner space and attacking their planets, instead of aligning with Humanity against the flood, his personal hate and the fact that he was the single highest ranking member of the worrier cast gave him the influence enough to continue the war. But.... I feel like everything you have stated here is entirely possible and plausible.

[@evanceier8577]

You're talking about how the humans were initially meant to be the forerunners right? That was the plan originally and it's 100000 percent better tbh. All the hints about and all but confirmation in the original three, especially halo 3 plus the dramatic irony of the covenant trying to exterminate their gods

[@evanjmitchell99]

Should be noted that by halo 3 they were finally changed to different species.

[@evanceier8577]

@@evanjmitchell99 really? That's the game I felt that had the most insinuation to them being human

[@evanjmitchell99]

@@evanceier8577 yeah the terminals, specifically the conversations between the librarian and the didact, confirmed they were different species.

[@evanceier8577]

@@evanjmitchell99 maybe it was a last minute decision or something? I say that cuz the dialogue seems to enforce they are human

[@evanjmitchell99]

@@evanceier8577 possibly, but that doesn't change the fact that it was confirmed in that game.

[@MasterOkojo]

I feel like I came to the same conclusions just moments before you mentioned each point in the video. This was amazing to watch and I love it. I love this theory. About the gravemind having a different opinion to the primordial about killing humanity, note that while the ancient humanity subspecies did not kill the precursors, modern humanity was guided by the librarian which might make us in some way closer to the forerunners than ancient humanity was, and thus the enemy of the gravemind.

[@nathandomke2721]

The whole concept of the human race once being a vast and powerful space-faring empire, but that it was at some point "reset" by a more powerful conquering species, is extremely plausible imo. There is a reason mythology of "Atlantis" or "Lemuria" is constant throughout many civilizations in the past.

[@eefer5416]

343 seeing this : uh yeah, that's it that's exactly it.

[@lrn5152]

This has to be one of my favorite videos by you. So many amazing ideas. 343i might do an outstanding job with Infinite's lore but it is fans like you that should truly have a seat in their workplace.

[@Kebron999]

Now this is the content I am here for. Absolutely makes sense and flushes out the lore even more. Love it.

[@l1teralcanc3r78]

Well, this is my headcanon now

[@masetheimpailer]

Not theory. Now my headcannon. Hell yes man, this is golden, give this man a job at 343!

[@tommymaxey2665]

Yeah in Bungie lore this was pretty much cannon. If you look at the games and lore prior to 343 takeover of the franchise. The final big revial at the end of Halo 3 was when Spark said "You are Forerunner ". He flats out tells us the truth at the end and we were to stupid to not understand it. Overall it makes more sense story wise. The Covenant worship the Forerunners(secretly humans) and when Truth, Mercy, and Regret find out that their gods are still alive and are just well humans they can't live with that truth.Mistranslated text and regilgious control caused the whole human-covenant war. Humans find the ring and chief can acess the light bridge and other holographic controls And humans are also called "Reclaimers". They are reclaiming what they once had. Overall i like how you tried to merge the two different sides of the forerunner coin together

[@LtDavidB312]

I’d be sketching out a sign for a Forerunner-style whiskey brewery, complete with airborne monitor, if I had any artistic talent.

[@albertcohee7757]

343 seriously shot themselves in the foot when they undid all of the foreshadowing of the forerunners being ancient humans.

[@markss367]

That was bungies fault.

[@MonkeyMakerMakesThings]

Humans: *Are canonically included as reclaimers in the Mantle of responsibility* Covenant: "So anyways i started Glassing"

[@Dododillo]

I remember reading in cryptum born stellar mentioning that some forerunner scientists believe humans and forerunners had a common ancestor. The librarian mentioned it too. I believe in silentium during her interrogation.

[@madcat789]

I miss the old lore, but you did a good job weaving both Old and New together.

[@beththomson1372]

00- the intro- are you ok lmao

[@SonicJohn117]

Wow I love this theory. I felt let down when we first saw a real forerunner in H4 because they had always been so mystical, so actually seeing their species felt slightly underwhelming. 343's explanation of the Human-Forerunner war also felt like a retcon to explain away Bungie's original vision. I could never really understand why the forerunners devolved us out of spite but still decided that out species would become their successors, but this idea of us being forever being linked by our common heritage is awesome. The fact that we can use forerunner tech even without the intention of the forerunners is cool. I hope this theory becomes real!

[@InformerMaz]

It could make sense. Think back to Germany after WW1, where they were stripped of all military and given a huge debt that totally crushed their economy. Makes sense that after a war with ancient humanity, the forerunners would do something similar. However as time passes, that initial feeling of revenge dissipates, and maybe some realize they screwed up in totally devolving humanity. What I think anyways lol.

[@Joe-xq3zu]

I tend to just take the easy path rather than trying to contort through ridiculous mental gymnastics needed to try to reconcile 343i's bad fanfiction with Bungi's original vision.

[@893Zeke]

Librarian (human) calls earth humans “them” in the halo 3 terminals because earth humans are an isolated population of forerunners outside of their own civilization, like the discoveries of *long* isolated tribes of humans living in remote islands or dangerous rainforests (halo 3 special editions introduced a species lorebook thing that mentioned the precursors for a reason) [this is a reused element of lore that goes back to the cortana letters and RTS-halo, which had the UNSC encounter other groups of humans who had never been on earth]

[@seth3491]

Humans are forerunners

[@Rudeljaeger]

Yes - Old Lore No - New Lore Kinda maybe? - Newest Lore

[@tomasgomez3407]

But this ring is mine

[@InfSoldier365]

Brilliant in its simplicity. Beautiful in its elegance. I find your theory bold and imaginative sir. Regardless you have crafted an intriguing narrative that renews my hope for the series.

[@OR10N114]

Heck yes, I love this lore! Its very close to what I had surmised. I really hope that this is close to or at least becomes the actual history of the two species. It just makes soo much sense. I love your videos very much 00. Please keep up the incredible work. If I had some whisky I would take a swig for you but alas all I have is red wine so it will have to do ( : Ps: I had never thought about them possibly evolving separately over time. I had presumed that the precursors had split their dna after the test which makes a lot less sense.

[@chrissonofpear1384]

I largely agree with all this, and have taken it mostly as read (before now) in my fanfiction.net story. The one issue I take some issue at is if the Forerunners saw much CHOICE in trying to exterminate the Precursors or not - as Halo Warfleet, and Silentium, both hint that the extinction of the Forerunners was planned after they 'failed' the Mantle (provided many of the Precursors knew what it mean't themselves, of course) So striking back of them may have been about more immediate concerns than keeping the Mantle to themselves...

[@schwig44]

Very true, it is important to remember that small events can cause massive reactions, we see this so much in the modern era of the Halo universe, but very rarely do we see that lens used to view ancient events. Not everything is part of the master plan, some things were reactions to real time events unfolding, as opposed to planned strategy

[@jamesblackburn6139]

The whole wiping out the Precursors, for losing the title of Mantle makes no sense at all to me, the precursors told them something much worse, imo, to decide to wipe them all out, chasing them out of the galaxy, even when they didn't attack back. Could it be they told them there intelligence comes from assimilating sentient life, they told them they were the flood?

[@chrissonofpear1384]

@@jamesblackburn6139 Could be. I go with what Bornstellar said, and others, that they were planning to wipe out Forerunners, and that many were monsters set on perverting the Mantle. Although the new book Point of Light, skirts over any of that, at best, and seems fairly favorable to the Precursors - at least, as they used to be.

[@badcopnodonut08]

God imagine where halo would be if 343 had at least one single competent writer.

[@btgmaster]

I love this theory. It is something I considered in the past and hope is what they do continue building to. I have also wondered after body augmentation to become a Spartan and the rapid evolution caused by the librarian how old do you think could live if not killed in the line of action.

[@spooky_43]

I'm way late, but I really like this theory. It makes sense, especially if 343 added more lore around it, but even without them adding anything it does a good job at explaining some inconsistencies and loose ends in the lore

[@ulty1472]

343 lore hurts my brain.

[@brucebane04]

Installation 00: always sipping whiskey Me: “ummmm......u good bro????”

[@crazyscotsman9327]

He's just a man of class!

[@WASDLeftClick]

Functional alcoholism is a thing. I myself drink around 3 beers a day in the evening, but skipping a few days here and there causes no ill effects. Granted I’m only *mostly* okay.

[@crazyscotsman9327]

@@WASDLeftClick I was being sarcastic. And a single glass of whisky isn't that bad. It's a nice way to relax.

[@Crazybay12345]

I'm new to the halo universe but after watching some of your videos it seems to me that the reason the forerunners were deemed unworthy of the mantle was because they actually understood what it actually was , a Shepard in sheep's clothing taking order from the wolves

[@ryanaymar9124]

I could have sworn, I’ve heard this before in a lore video. That the humans and forerunner were split by the precursors into humans and forerunner

[@netheretic874]

Same here. I think it was a Halo Follower vid maybe? I was certain that this was a confirmed thing. I've definitely been talking about it like it is

[@LordTelperion]

I very much love this theory! 🤟 Also (if memory serves) the books stated that the Forerunners naturally look identical to Humans before their genetic & cybernetic enhancements for long life, and whatever augmentations their assigned Rates deemed needed to carry out their specialized roles, would change their appearances to something less-than/more-than-human looking.

[@LordTelperion]

22:57 There we are! :)

[@sookendestroy1]

How about this one: The Precursors "created" both Humanity and the Forerunners... The ancient Forerunners held immensely more powerful technology than the latter Forerunners but almost all of their history is lost to them, all they know is that the Precursors were immensely powerful with technology far above their own and that they were wiped out by their ancestors whom were subsequently lost to time. What if the ancestor to both species *are* the precursors. We know they created new life, that they could shape reality to their will, could shapeshift themselves at will, what if this shifting is how they created new life. Not creating it so much as forcefully evolving themselves into it.

[@playerdoodp11]

That ending couple of sentences was a funny and great way to end it. Lol

[@christiangordon6198]

This makes sooooooo much sense.

[@Sombraptor]

Wow. This is a BRILLIANT theory, I've gotta say! Reconciling the supposed inconsistencies like that...that's impressive. Something else of note - in Halo's ancient setting, the term "human" is a LOT more broad than it is to us. It goes so far as to include Gigantopithecus (Shakyanusho), members of Ponginae, the Orangutan branch of the Hominid family tree (which just so happens to be the farthest branch from us). And if these "Progenitors" really did arise 15 million years ago (which also just so happens to be very close to the approximated time range where Hominidae first arose), they could, in theory, be THE basal species of Hominidae... >insert monke meme here

[@samuelpettington2241]

My mind is BLOWN. Your insights are incredible and I hope this can be investigated further :)

[@chadmaple2411]

I mean the prophets literally believed humans were forerunners left behind by the rings holy fire which heavily implies humans and forerunners at least somewhat related

[@markss367]

Post halo array humans are.

[@freeflowme]

That second opening clip (chief running, Cortana narrating) with that epic music, hit me so hard in the feels.

[@nobodyofconsequence5084]

Very solid theory, all in all. The one thing i disagree with is that the 2 forms of ancient ruins have completely different architecture from each other. The ruins on Delta Halo look exactly like all other "Forerunner" structures, just made of stone instead of metal. While the ruins in The Babysitter look much more traditionally human, particularly East Asian, architecturally.

[@twojacksandanace3847]

Honestly this is very interesting and while I love the other theories and would love to see anyone of them verified I hope this is true for the most part. This one has a lot more drama and intrigue and so much more flavor than the others. And that's saying something because the others like i said are also fantastic.

[@V.O.Y.S.]

i always kind of had this feeling in the back of my head that humans and forerunners where related somehow, this makes a lot of sense. I mean even when you look and how the didact puts his armor on its just like a super beefed up way that chief puts his on. There a lot of similaritys between the two, even when you look at the didact he looks like a human that with a vampire face and his skin melted off.

[@JamesShedinn]

Can we just address the usage, whether intentional or not, of the radio at 25:00 as a mic drop?

[@Crisguythat]

But I thought masterchef was the reincarnation of the isodidect and guilty spark was referring to a personal conversation with the last isodidect millenia ago which was why masterchief subconsciously knows how to interact with old tech. I figured the librarian had colonies of early human go there to learn and maintain these sacred universal places after didect began his campaign. Besides that your spot on great pre game release lore research.

[@RBE14]

I remember this being a huge point of conversation back in the day, when Halo encouraged theory-crafting and having their players come to their own conclusion. Man, i miss that

[@SovietTricycle]

Installation00 when explaining lore *Insert Gordon Ramsey.jpeg* Delicious, finally some good fckin whiskey. Also what kind of whiskey are you drinking? I would like to try.

[@MichaelNobleMusic]

Okay I feel so much less crazy for coming to similar conclusions. After reading Bear's trilogy, I got this impression that Forerunners and Humans just went down two different evolutionary paths, and that the Forerunners "mutate" as a way to distance themselves from their shared ancestry or genetic makeup as much as they could. They just wanted to be the superior "race". Man I hope this ends up being true because it makes all the glaring contradicts in dialogue throughout the games feel 100% coherent and super interesting

[@chrissonofpear1384]

That is where I think it is going, yes. With some uncertainty on their initial motives, or if they really though that's what the Mantle intended, or not.

[@ur-didact1991]

Fact: Worlds most oldest religion Hinduism said that there was 4 era's, Satya/treta/Dvapara/Kali, The era's were denoted as "Yuga" Now from what I found out that in Satya yug which was about 4800 Hindu astronomical years, stated that it was mankind's peak of technology and sophistication, people on that era had limitless knowledge and experience, They were governed by the creators and every thing was truth full and were beyond our technological limits, People on satya Yuga were able to live up to 100,000 years average and were over 3-4 meters tall and godly figure, Vedas which was told to be the limitless sea of knowledge was created by God's, humans on that era was able to comprehend and connect their consciousness with that, they would connect their consciousness with divine beings which was the main thing of that era, And now is the era of doomed, devolved humanity, and it will end soon and will start the process of becoming satya Yuga again, Now connect things with few things, Ancient humans in halo was gods (precursors) beloved creation, the domain was Vedanta in this case as stated to be endless knowledge, now about physiology of ancient humans that they were as tall as forerunners which are over 3-4 meters tall makes things mixed up, Now the more mixed up thing is that Veda in its raw form was so vast that normal people of Kali Yuga or modern era would not be able to comprehend that so for our understanding, Just like we can't access to domain, And Forthencho fought a thousand years war so that means they could live thousands of years, Wait.....is this means...........?

[@AndrewGeierMelons]

Jainist here, we call Satya "the truth of the liberated souls" Satya is meant to be one of the five principles of our responsibility to the world. Almost like a mantle of responsibility. We also add ahimsa, asteya, brahmacharya and aparigraha, and that sums up our five vows of responsibility

[@Michaelanthony24680]

Honestly, whenever you make a Lore and Theory video, my brain just puts it all in the "canon" file.

[@isaiahkerstetter3142]

I can't help but think I've heard the idea that humans and forerunners are cousins from a common ancestor and that the forerunner-precursor war was sparked when humans and forerunner found that the precursors had split them from each other and the forerunner didn't take the news well.

[@Faber8004]

There is also the fact that it was revealed that genetically Humans and Forerunners were almost similar to one another, which supports your theory.

[@ethanwagner6418]

Not only are humans and forerunners probably related, but I think it's possible that many of Halo's prominent species are based on some sort of precursor design philosophy that favors bipedal, gas-breathing creatures that can safely consume similar foods. These similarities may have been implemented to encourage interspecies cooperation. Either that, or the galaxy is teeming with exotic life, and the Covenant species from the war are the only ones that can easily interact with us. I suppose that's the simpler explanation.

[@gorillazzilla]

What if, there was one common ancestor, that diverged into 3 different subsets: ancient humans, forerunners, and the sanshy'um?

[@darthshaggy9697]

That pretty much woulda been the precursors.

[@Ikcatcher]

I kinda miss the Bungie days when Forerunners were mysterious ancient aliens that we knew nothing about. 343 having to explain everything about this ancient alien race kinda just ruined the allure of them tbh

[@markss367]

Well bungie did that first.

[@Alex.T1]

a small theory I have as to why the Flood are attaching the humans now when they left ancient humans before is because when humans were re-seeded on earth and the Librarian modified humans with the Geas to more easily re-learn their technology, Humans now became Reclaimers and thus "inherited the sins of their fathers" (Forerunners)

[@thecomedygamingnetwork261]

I remember this. Spark was referring to Chief having the Isodidacts geass. Promise you. Humans and forerunners were always separate species until you go so far back that you find out the Precursors had a "perfect" species and split them into the humans and forerunners. Must not have been so perfect

[@tyvernoverlord5363]

I have always postulated this ever since the Forerunner Saga was made. But seeing as Iso didn't have a geas made and 343i have made it clear how much of a loony spark/chakas had become and that Chief doesn't carry the geas of Bornstellar, its left me stumped for years. Also 343i retconned further about when chief and spark do the dialogue in the control room in the cinematic prior to _Two Betrayals_ to again make spark utterly insane.

[@TylerJames-gf8ms]

100% agree. That’s what I thought when I was playing Halo CE in 2002.

[@datastorm75]

Something to throw into this mix is whether one or both of these branches engaged in genetic engineering of their own populations. This could increase any deviations from the root stock.

[@Chazebrimbor]

This Is something I've thought about for a long time and has been part of my headcanon. Not so much all of the intracases and in some cases this video actually added a lot to what I already thought. Brilliantly crafted

[@gordon9821]

Not gonna lie, this is the most convincing theory I've heard so far. Every time a claim was made that I thought was a stretch, it was immediately addressed afterward.

[@wisedude4285]

Another fantastic video from my favorite Halo KZbinr.

[@resultedchutoy3353]

343I after watching: 343I: *WRITE THAT DOWN! WRITE THAT DOWN!!!*

[@haloplayer439]

I thought back they already distinguished that they were separated before halo4 was even out

[@xhaloxgamerx360x]

Since you mention them(forerunners) being interested in DNA evolution, what's your take on the librarian giving chief the gene song in halo 4? It apparently grants chief many additional features and one of those features is the immunity to the composer but the rest is unknown..

[@docvaliant721]

The ancient Egyptians couldn't have cut that granite with copper tools.

[@ChrissieBear]

It's canon that the Forerunners and Humans were one species before the Precursors "sundered" them into two different species. It's spelled out in both Halo: Silentium and Halo: Point of Light.

[@flatarthur3161]

But that doesn't make sense because 343 and Mendicant Bias said that their creators were humans. The Onyx sentinels even called the Spartans an aboriginal subspecies.

[@sekiko7183]

I still blame Frank O'Connor for ruining this franchise since his IRIS campaign and Didact/Library terminals.

[@Agora2021]

Yes, good old Frankie absolutely annihilated Halo's entire story and lore.

[@isopropyltoxicity]

That ugly orc ruined the entire franchise

[@majesticturtle7037]

I have watched your content for quite sometime but that intro just pushed me into fandom🤣 cheers m8

[@MasonOfLife]

I absolutely love this theory and this video! Your video actually reignited the spark of interest in me again for Halo lore

[@psilonemo9459]

I wish this was true. At least this way it reconciles the civil war over the lore between bungie and 343's Halo. But nah, of course the lore was never going to be that sophisticated. They just introduced "the Endless", new aliens nobody gives a shit about, as well as a boring villain nobody gave a shit about. lol.

[@Sentry331]

Didn't Born-Stellat mention this theory in Cryptum? Either way, another solid analysis from you Installation 00.

[@robertriggs3818]

As a whiskey drinker and a lover of a good Jameson, I appreciate your little dialogue about dying on your hill with a good bottle.