Installing a Hydronic Heater to Survive Canada's Winter

[@kelanmcdonald9655]

not sure why but i love seeing how you guys aren’t afraid to share how long this remodel has/will take. most youtubers make it look so easy yet you guys show the slow and steady progress of a boat rebuild. Keep it up!!!

[@OnboardTangaroaSeatrial]

Lol, that is the more typical rate for most people doing refits that have day jobs. Glad you are enjoying it! Thanks for watching. Blaine

[@redrockroger]

Have you ever considered Grundfos pumps? There are versions made for pumping radiant heat around houses. We use them for radiant floor heating. No issues in 16 years.

[@OnboardTangaroaSeatrial]

I ended up getting a Taco pump which from what I understand are quite similar to the Grundfos units. Its been going for about 2 years now and works great! Blaine

[@davedavids9619]

Like others already stated, don't waste the hot cooling water from your generator and your engines. On my boat the port engine cooling water runs through the boiler, means I have warm water whenever we are underway and when that port engine is running. When that is not the case I heat the boiler with a 800 W/220 V heating element. Since I have LiFePO4 batteries that is not a problem. As for the pump problems, don't know if you have central heating with radiators in houses in that part of the world, but in Europe we do. So my Kabola heater is basically the same set up as a house heating system. The diesel burner heats up the water, water gets pumped around the radiators which heat up the boat. The pump that I have onboard is a standard central heating pump, they never fail, can highly recommend them.

[@OnboardTangaroaSeatrial]

I may add an engine heating loop in the future but our generator run times are so short that I just don't feel its worth the effort. It would be interesting to know how much it would reduce fuel burn over a long time span though. The heater does have a large electric element built in but its more of an "assist" its output is only a fraction of the diesel burner itself. For the pump I did end up going with a Taco 120v circulation pump for residential heating. It has worked great for a couple of years now. If I did the system again I would likely just get a large dedicated burner and do all of the heat exchanging and pumping externally. It would definitely make for a better system and likely considerably less investment. Blaine

[@jpolish420]

If you want the best and quietest fans, you want Noctua.

[@OnboardTangaroaSeatrial]

I had another person recommend them as well. I remember using them in my pc building days. Going to have see what the new lineup look like. Thanks! Blaine

[@limogesfarmer6326]

As a hydronic heating guy, I wish we knew each other when you were designing this.

[@OnboardTangaroaSeatrial]

I find that my biggest issues is knowing what products are available in certain sectors. Knowing people in those sectors would certainly help. You can only find so much in a reasonable amount of searching. Blaine

[@tristan4337]

Spring Clamps are GREAT because they maintain tension. Most people hate them because you NEED a special tool or tools to get them on and off safely. Use the wrong tool... BLOODY MESS. 😅

[@OnboardTangaroaSeatrial]

They are great. We use them tons in the automotive trade. I typically don't mind them unless the manufacturer has put them in locations that are almost impossible to access. That was the case with these. Thanks for watching! Blaine

[@Nicholas2011ist]

Use an underfloor heating manifold to separate the loops and run a Taco/Grundfos household pump off the inverter. The 12 volt pumps are crap

[@OnboardTangaroaSeatrial]

The system is already in operation and I don't think I will have time to do many alterations for a while. Funny enough though, I actually installed a Taco pump a couple of years ago and it has been working great! Blaine

[@fredstocking3812]

Grandfos pumps installed in 1970 still working for hydronic heat in house 120 volt.

[@OnboardTangaroaSeatrial]

I ended up going with a Taco. I believe they are similar to the Grundfos units. Its worked well for a couple of years now. Take care. Blaine

[@Allen-g1l]

How cool would it be to have the fireplace in the wheelhouse? I would never leave the house.

[@OnboardTangaroaSeatrial]

Now that us a good idea! We would never leave the wheelhouse. Thanks for watching. Janis

[@ryanh4889]

Another recommendation for the 120vac Grundfoss pumps. Sure Marine Seattle make a relay box.

[@OnboardTangaroaSeatrial]

I ended up going with a Taco 120v unit. The heater has an internal space for relays so I installed one there. Its been working great for a couple of years now. Blaine

[@truckercharlied6056]

So I know there a little costly but like the bow cabin use a Espar or that what ever brand truck diesel heater. Had on in every semi I've driven they work great may be laud at first but only use like a quart to mabey a gallon of fuel in 12 hours. Also have you thought of like a 12 car fan or blower in place of the pc fan I know some fab work will be needed and possibly a relay and power put in just because a pc fan doesn't use much

[@OnboardTangaroaSeatrial]

Espar heaters are definitely quite popular on the boats. I actually misquoted the fuel burn on this unit. It is only .46 GPH. I have had a few recommendations on PC fans. Probably going to look into that. Thanks for watching! Blaine

[@jeffl4810]

Part 2 The nice thing is, no complex valving or plumbing needed with heat exchangers, as if the engine(s) are not running, they are not circulating water, and thus not wasting heat from the mini boiler to heat the engines. That way, whenever you have an engine running, you have free heat! BTW, I still need to redo and send you those calcs for the optimal alternator RPM :)

[@OnboardTangaroaSeatrial]

Very good point. I should have some results on that generator set up as I am cutting the system over today hopefully. Need to get my busbars finished up though as the current cabling was only meant to be temporary and uses 4/0 cable which will not be enough.

[@jeffl4810]

@OnboardTangaroaSeatrial What is the length of the run from the generators alternator, to your battery box? I'll calculate out what you need for wire, based on voltage drop. Note that several parallel runs of conductors might be your best option.

[@OnboardTangaroaSeatrial]

The positive run is about 6ft and the negative is about 12ft. I am using some leftover 313mcm cable I had from another job.

[@jeffl4810]

Run your generators hot side coolant, before it goes to the heat exchanger, to the hot water tank. Perhaps through a seperate heat exchanger to isolate the two systems, preventing an issue of either system from taking the other down... Part 1

[@OnboardTangaroaSeatrial]

That is an option for sure however we don't run the generator for all that long to charge the batteries. It would be a great option off of the main engines to heat while underway though as we would have them running for extended periods.

[@peterevenhuis2663]

Using 48volt fans on 24 volt is a solution to reduce sound noise, also dump the heat from your generator in a hot water tank and use this heat when the gen is off

[@OnboardTangaroaSeatrial]

Thanks for the suggestions! Unfortunately I won't have time to get back to this for a while. Too many bigger projects on the go. Blaine

[@Carries338Lapua]

Noctura fans a the quietest you can get when you get to replacing the loud ones.

[@OnboardTangaroaSeatrial]

I have had a few suggestions for the Noctua fans. That will likely be the way I will go. Thanks! Blaine

[@limogesfarmer6326]

50,000 btu/h is real low for instantaneous water heating. Do you have a buffer tank?

[@OnboardTangaroaSeatrial]

It does have a 7 gallon buffer tank. The on demand hot water works fairly well but in the wintertime when the water in the tanks is very cold the showers definitely need to be shortened a bit. Blaine

[@berniemailloux6300]

Noctua Fans are the best for being quite

[@OnboardTangaroaSeatrial]

They seem to be getting lots of recommendations. I will definitely be looking into them.

[@jeffl4810]

I'm not sure your best options for pumps, but that is unfortunate that they are failing. I would look at automotive DC driven coolant pumps. Hybrid vehicles often use these. Prius's for example. You would have issues with your 24V supply vs 12V of most automotive parts. But perhaps theres some commercial vehicle DC coolant pumps available that run on DC. Alternatively, use a DC to DC converter. There's tons avaliable cheap. Although, in my case, I would probably roll my own design. I have used brass circulator pumps in the past, mostly for chiller applications. Grundfos and Taco both make decent ones that hold up well. But they all run on AC voltages. At least they did. There may be solar optimized pumps avaliable now that run on DC. Edit: BRONZE pumps, not brass

[@OnboardTangaroaSeatrial]

I swapped the pump out for a Taco unit. It is 120v but we have that always available and will have redundancies in place in case of inverter failure. It's been running flawlessly for a couple of years now. I will get a second one for the forward loop. I had one on order but the postal strike up here in Canada kinda threw a wrench into the works. I had a couple of automotive auxiliary heater pump in there for a bit but I had failures with those as well.

[@jeffl4810]

@@OnboardTangaroaSeatrial Yeah, that's why I suggested DC driven OEM automotive coolant pumps. Engineered to last. Vs some of the aftermarket/universal/off brand stuff

[@jeffl4810]

@@OnboardTangaroaSeatrial The Taco's will do you well

[@thebuonocore9818]

Did I hear correctly that essentially in one year, you have over 1,200 hrs of run time? If it burns 6.5 gallons per hour running, you've burned over 7,800 gallons of diesel? I had to of misheard something or my math ain't mathin right?

[@OnboardTangaroaSeatrial]

You heard correctly but I didn't have my glasses on and read out the wrong number. The actual fuel burn is .46 gallons per hour. The 6.5 is the amps it draws. Lol, I didn't even think about it when I said it. Thanks for catching that. Blaine

[@thebuonocore9818]

@OnboardTangaroaSeatrial Haha. Ok, that makes a little more sense.

[@jimreid67]

⁠@@OnboardTangaroaSeatrialthat sounds much better. I heard you say 6.5 gph and thought that was crazy high.

[@OnboardTangaroaSeatrial]

Lol, my bad. Sorry for the confusion.

[@jeffl4810]

Look into noctua fans. The defacto standard in quiet pancake fans!

[@OnboardTangaroaSeatrial]

I had though about a pc fan for my draft heater as well. I remembered noctua from my pc building days. Will definitely be looking into them.

[@jeffl4810]

@@OnboardTangaroaSeatrial definitely worth looking into. You may want to drive them at 2 speeds also. High speed = noisey, but lots of heat. Lower speed for quiet, but lower heat. Most 24V household thermostats of moderate features have more than 1 output heat output, that would work perfectly with this. And even though they mostly run on AC, they shouldn't have an issue running on your 24V nominal DC. Or could be easily modified if there was an issue.

[@jeffl4810]

@@OnboardTangaroaSeatrial KZbin censoring my posts again... Frustrating....

[@GoofieNewfie69]

Marine units are really expensive, parts and fuel hungry. One would think a marine unit would be better than a home unit, but when it comes to radiant heat, residential units are by far superior, and cheaper on parts.

[@OnboardTangaroaSeatrial]

They are expensive for sure. I certainly would do things differently if i were to do it again. I did misquote the fuel burn though. I have been replacing the pumps as they fail with residential 120v pumps. They have been working well. Thanks for watching! Blaine

[@GoofieNewfie69]

@@OnboardTangaroaSeatrial Keep an eye out for DC pumps. They are somewhat common in off grid systems. Or, replace your motors with DC motors. Not sure what your fluid flow requirements are, but you can generally get away with 25 to 35 goh, maybe even as low as 10 to 20gph

[@MsJon52]

after commenting on your last video with the cabin heater then seeing this vid with you having the mega diesel heater I would like to take my comment back concerning fitting a water jacket around the cabin heater to give you both the warmth you need, lol, I feel like a clown, but hey if you cant laugh at yourself you have no right to laugh at anyone else, talking about making stupid comments, have you got double glazing for your cabin etc? also as an old salt myself I like to have a full 360 view at all times, but on Tangaroa you have enough glass for a greenhouse, so why not fit lined curtains for use at night while keeping some clear for security observation,

[@OnboardTangaroaSeatrial]

Lol, The Dickinson was just the first step. For the first few weekends before I got the big heater installed Janis and I would bring a mattress into the main salon and sleep there because it was the only warm spot. Cabin windows are crap. Definitely a huge source of lost heat. We plan to change them all in the not so distant future. Lined curtains are definitely a good option as well. Blaine

[@Graveltrucking]

Hydronic heating is the “safest” option on a boat the little “Bus” heaters in each room, before Blaine said it I said noise. Seeing as you guys run off of battery/inverter power using the generator to help produce/assist hot water isn’t a viable option. The technology today with on demand hot water heaters is amazing.

[@OnboardTangaroaSeatrial]

So far barring the pump issues it has worked very well. The hot water on demand is right on the edge in the winter though when the water in the tanks is super cold. Blaine

[@jabirucru6970]

Don’t like those dickenson heaters. Dirty smelly and require too much maintenance.

[@OnboardTangaroaSeatrial]

We have to admit that we are considering swapping this one out. It makes the upper deck so dirty. Thanks for watching. Janis

[@rottweiler9535]

BUY THE "CATS PAW PLIARS" MADE FOR SPRING CLAMPS, DUH! AND THEN LEARN ABOUT PRIMARY AND SECONDARY LOOP HYDRONIC SYSTEMS

[@OnboardTangaroaSeatrial]

My spring clamp pliers live at my automotive shop. The heater was the only thing on the boat that used spring clamps. I'm not going to waste an hour of my life driving to shore then to the shop and back just to grab my spring clamp pliers that are just as unlikely to have fit in the space I had. Primary and secondary loops are all well and good in a house where you have infinite electricity and cheap fuel. This system only circulates water when there is heat demand in a zone. This allows the system to cycle less and have a better efficiency. I had debated installing bypass solenoids at each zone though to completely bypass the radiators but honestly, simplicity is king. Having the second independent loop forward lets me completely shut down water flow to that loop as its not needed for the majority of the time.

[@jabirucru6970]

Don’t like those dickenson heaters. Dirty smelly and require too much maintenance.

[@OnboardTangaroaSeatrial]

They are a bit of a pain. I am debating building my own setup. Blaine