Installing Our New DC Fast Charger! XCharge NZS 200kWh Battery Integrated Unit

[@jasongroendyk9432]

Fort Collins resident and new EV owner here. Your review of the permitting process and the lack of DC fast charging infrastructure here was eye opening. I have LV2 charging at home so I haven't considered that the GMC dealership was the "best" we had, but I really hope the City does something about this, soon.

[@KyleConner]

It’s crazy that the GMC dealer was the fastest until now… so much work to be done!

[@ahbushnell1]

Loveland has chargers.

[@KyleConner]

@@ahbushnell1yes, but that’s Loveland and not Fort Collins haha

[@DainPhillipz]

@@KyleConner This is super fascinating! Is the podcast... still happening?

[@briannugent1557]

@@KyleConner For sure. The last time I tried it, I only got 28.5kW from the GMC dealer charger, even though it's a 62kW station. I think they limited it since it came back online. So, evGo is really the fastest at 50kW.

[@Neberheim]

Sounds like an episode at a city council meeting should be forthcoming.

[@johnpoldo8817]

Kyle, this is your best episode ever for us engineering nerds. Clearly, it’s not a trivial installation.

[@ridesafe2]

Kyle and out of spec crew(s) you guys rock. This is a great solution for more and more applications that are needed in more remote areas that can not or don't have that big power requirement available.

[@fatechlon4769]

I am a fast charger manufacturer, please contact me privately if you need any help.

[@chadshenk]

I decided to look up demand charges for my area (Huntsville, Alabama) and was pleasantly surprised to see that the city utility has a dedicated rate plan for DC fast chargers (with no demand charges) for $0.23 / kWh. We do get power from TVA, so our base rate is already pretty low compared to a lot of the country.

[@Heartless_13224]

Really! I'm in the Huntsville area. I had no idea. Then they are having a hefty markup on the Chargepoint units near the hospital at 42 cents/kWh.

[@chadshenk]

@@Heartless_13224 That’s one of the reasons I will always try to charge at a supercharger before anywhere else, the ones by Trader Joe’s are $0.34 / kWh. They’re installing some new ones in Madison as well, so hopefully they’re similarly priced.

[@stevedowler2366]

I love these how-it-happened videos. Thanks guys and thanks to XCharge for their on-site support and explanations. And thanks also to Winn-Marion for their expertise. The battery-buffered systems are essential for getting a rural area on the charging network and especially for using the 220V grid tie which reduces grid-side equipment costs and high load charges.

[@fatechlon4769]

I am a fast charger manufacturer, please contact me privately if you need any help.

[@stevenichols4639]

The team from Winn Marion are amazing. Great explanation

[@fatechlon4769]

I am a fast charger manufacturer, please contact me privately if you need any help.

[@hdhd7402]

This is what it’s about! The passion shows!! Blessings to you and your team for all that you’ll do for the community!!!!!!!

[@Kameronkonalives]

This is happening in the Seattle area with DC chargers. Look at Tesla’s map. There are several stations that are construction complete, but awaiting the city to finish permitting for final hookup. The 250 kW charger with 12 stalls near me was finished in roughly 3 weeks by Tesla. The permitting process caused this station to take 8 months to actually activate…. Ballard, Northgate, Shoreline etc are impacted. Check them out in TMC

[@nedj10]

A deep dive on the delays in the all the pre-installation steps would be very very helpful for anyone else thinking about deploying DC fast charging at their business.

[@HoundStuff]

Cool to see! Looks like nice hardware and a good solution for the many areas of the country with the high demand charges.

[@scottbalak7123]

My work (MA) has been waiting for more than a year on permits to install 4 more (L2 6kw chargers). We have 8 chargers today and they're always full. It's completely ridiculous. Can you imagine if it took this long to get approval to install an electric dryer (which is also ~6kw) in your home.

[@junktionfet]

Wow I'm super impressed with this product. It's a brilliant idea and I can see a number of perfect use cases for it. One step at a time I suppose.

[@dallasthola6431]

Kyle, for 3 phase power you get to multiply by square root of 3. So 40A at 480 will supply up to 33 KVA.

[@woodshop2300]

Yes, but I think they are piggy backing the HVAC on the same circuit so the charge rate needs to account for charging with HVAC active

[@desmo200]

I'm thinking when the installer said they were bringing over 4 conductors and the HVAC transformer is 277V that it might be single phase L1-L2 for the charger and L3-N for the transformer primary (or whatever combination of line-line and line-neutral they chose)

[@patrickmay8261]

​@@desmo200WAG is the charger is balanced across all three phases and the transformer pulling on one phase. Would have helped a little bit if that transformer was 480 single phase primary but they may not have thought about that where the system was designed. Then you wouldn't need the neutral either.

[@uhjyuff2095]

the isolation transformer is rated at 6kva. I wonder what size fuses they used in that disconnect as to avoid a code violation.

[@Roeland54]

As european it seems crazy to me to have a single phase to feed a 19kW system.

[@Dactylonian]

These guys are epic. They stayed until after 9pm to get this all sorted out. The crew deserves some Odell’s Easy Street Wheat and some (original recipe) Fat Tire.

[@Alex_Bessinger]

The smaller cable for the NACS appears to be achieved by using "dual conductors" for DC+ and DC-, which allows for tighter packaging and greater flexibility. In my time at QC Charge, we used a similar approach for our 40A cables, which were thinner and more flexible than most other 40A cables cables on the market at the time. On those, rather than using a single 8 AWG conductor for each line, it used 2 paralleled 12 AWG conductors (which works out to ~9 AWG combined).

[@markeaton6734]

Can you add a solar canopy over the top of the charger and parking spots?

[@eric4903]

Neat, you can test how bypassing the thermal throttling on the cable impacts the charger performance on your own hardware now.

[@VipreNZ]

Battery backed DC fast chargers operate in the same way as a water tower

[@rud]

Have been waiting to see this for a long time. 😀🔌 So rare we get to see inside these things. 😀

[@bvalantinas]

Cable swap segment at around 40 min repeats itself. FYI

[@redyau_]

Maybe remove it with KZbin editor?

[@kd7lxl]

He is really excited about NACS okay.

[@ArtiePenguin1]

It's probably because the editor doesn't re-watch the final video to make sure there are no mistakes

[@zmarko]

And here I am having been all proud of myself for installing my own Wall Charger this past week. 🤣

[@ChristianBehnke]

A great option for smaller communities where the EV infrastructure is a challenge and lower charging needs exist!

[@mos7wan7ed_yt]

Every gas station needs one of these in rural areas. It seems so easy to permit right off an existing building that is surrounded by parking. They need an app that can list its current capacity as well. You don't want to deture to a unit that has just been drained.

[@MauricevanHees]

Great Job guys. love it. This setup can be a game changer for installing DC fastcharing everywhere.

[@azimenoff]

I worked at that location for 3 years, it's a historical building. Permitting at historical locations is always going to be a huge issue. There are services to predict the peak, so you can avoid it, but they will likely find you as their costs are based on the substation capacity. That substation was only 3-4MW a few years back. So if you had a 250kw Tesla charger they would find you fast and then bill you for the upgrade. That is what is killing a lot of projects, it's the last one through the door getting hit with huge capex upgrade charges at substations. This XCharge is an impressively built machine, hope they sell a lot.

[@frankdelao4067]

Kyle, I recommend you send this video and or information of the installation to the mayor’s office as well as your city representative. They may not be aware of the difficulties of setting up fast chargers. Also other residents of the city should complain. Each message received is considered to be the opinion of about 2,000 constituents according to research.

[@JSmooVE3990]

Kyle makes me know way more about this stuff then I'd ever need! Which I need! but I don't need it. Love it.

[@Captain_DeSync]

Augh, so cool! Quite unfortunate how FoCo fights these things every step of the way. Like you said, you’d think they’d help but apparently not. Regardless though, what at neat installation!

[@sdmike1141]

I don’t know which way the electrons flow, but THIS was cool!

[@YeOldeTraveller]

I worked with power for data centers and equipment rooms. Those 480 feeds will jump if you give them a chance. Good to see that all due care was taken with that install.

[@Charles.D89]

This is awesome and exciting for all of you. It's a beautiful machine.

[@danburkland]

Can’t wait for the podcast about the permitting process. I knew it would be at least a few months but 6 months is insane.

[@trevorkoch6149]

Can’t wait to try it! That was my e golf charging spot when visiting from Denver.

[@TheMidIslander]

Battery powered DCFC are fine provided there isn't too much demand on their use. Chevron in Canada, BC specifically has installed dozens of Freewire DCFC's with 160 kWh internal batteries within city limits, as well as on major corridors. While they may ease the barriers and burden of installation and infrastructure, they constantly run in Power Conserve mode, dispensing around 15kW total shared between the two charge handles whenever the internal battery depletes to 10%. In Hope BC, a main stop between Vancouver and Kelowna as an example, Chevron installed 12 Freewire DCFC's with 160kWh internal batteries. Sounds fantastic until it's summer and everyone and their dog is stopping in Hope to charge up before hitting the mountain passes. We pulled up because we needed to stop and figured we'd ABC it while we were grabbing a couple things. Every charger was in Power Conserve mode, with people getting either irrate, or accepting their fate. One F-150 Lightening was towing a wakeboard boat and had no choice but to stop and charge, didn't have a tesla adapter with him and was at the mercy of what was essentially a level 2 charger mid day on a road trip of 400km's with significant elevation changes between him and his destination. I still think the chargers have a place, don't get me wrong, but in high demand locations, not so much.

[@mkgearhead5151]

If it's any consolation, South Dakota is way worse. My wife and I went up there for our anniversary last month. The Cadillac dealership in Spearfish installed fast chargers, then the power company decided to charge them over $1700/month to use them. They ended up having to disable them. The only other one in Spearfish hasn't worked in months. There are only 2 or 3 fast chargers in Rapid City. You would think that a state whose biggest industry is tourism would take EV infrastructure more seriously. I live out in the sticks in Fort Morgan, CO and we have a 350kw Electrify America charger at the local Walmart. I almost exclusively charge at home since electricity here is only about 8.2 cents per kwh.

[@thomaswilliams6155]

23 mins in and i finally know what win marion is. I would have used a strain relief for the cord connection at the top of the unit. the cord does have a neat little cord slack control deal but the 90 degree bend warrants a strain relief. wow, they know their stuff. they should have mentioned that they have to be NITP certified. Thats a bit,, of a test.

[@RebelRanger2009]

This is so exciting to watch!

[@hallcrash]

The utilities rate structure isn't gonna change. The whole point of that type of rate is to get commercial consumers to manage their own peak use... with on-site storage. If you're going to add more DC fast charging, install a battery bank or get more of the integrated chargers like your spotlighting in this video. Permitting should be easier, I agree with that.

[@johntrotter8678]

I have no need to know this detail, but I appreciate it anyway! Thanks.

[@JeffHenry-y7h]

Great video Kyle! I want to fact check something tho. @ min 54:40 you say you calculated "20kW usable" but actually that breaker can support 33kW continuous and 41.5kW for short periods of time without tripping. Because this circuit is 3 phase the calculation would be as follows: Continuous kVA (kW) = 480V * 50A * 80% * Sqrt(3). On paper you should be able to support 2 of these XCharge units charging at 16.5kW continuous with no issues from this breaker. Thanks for filming all the interesting details of this installation. I found myself watching to the end.

[@SuperchargedJester]

I really enjoyed the technical info on this install.. I watched every minute of it.

[@mathiasman]

pretty ironic that you only get 19kW at the "powerhouse". Pretty sure I have that capacity in my apartment. Probably will be a bit bulky in my living room though.

[@uhjyuff2095]

I saw a 6KVA isolation transformer. They tried to input more and that could be a code violation so they need to put the right size fuses in the disconnect.

[@benssolarandbattery]

I need to get Xcharge paired up with Green Mountain Power in VT. I'm sure they'd love to utilize the battery storage to offset peak demand, and we'd get faster charging in rural locations to boot!

[@LarsDennert]

Welcome to every municipality in the USA. It takes much longer to get permits than to build. As a developer, it took us six years to get building permits in one City.

[@ERIKM-ed9ef]

Permitting is where "local control" is a problem. You need to lobby your state legislature to impose state wide permitting rules for DC fast charging. California has done this for roof top solar installations because so many "local control" permitting rules and delays were getting in the way.

[@steinmar2]

Kyle YOU ARE AWESOME!!!

[@PeteAUS1983]

This would be great in Australia for sites that only have 3 phase power and are not approved for massive current draw.

[@YeOldeTraveller]

Wish I had know about this last week when I drove through.

[@luisbarraza9709]

Great work as always peeps. Lol at Kyle saying mushrooms on pizza was to exotic 😂

[@HowardStory]

Thanks for explaining the peak demand charges. That explains a lot. I guess we have a use for the older EV batteries now. 😂😂

[@TechnicalLee]

Kyle, 40A on 3-phase 480V breaker is 33.3 kW, not 19.2 kW. Three phase provides more power than single phase at the same voltage and current. So you could probably set the charger to draw more power for recharging without overloading the circuit, assuming you aren't running into a panel limitation.

[@moondoggie1968]

480 is consider Low Voltage for Insdustrial Electricians in Canada. 3 Phase, 2 Phase does not matter, voltage is voltage.

[@rabidpb]

As a Brit walking into a commercial space in Montreal I was surprised to find a 600V incomer (no guarding over the terminals inside the cabinet!), a transformer hung from the ceiling (yikes), and the lighting circuits running at 347V from before the transformer (wtf?)

[@uhjyuff2095]

@@rabidpb The lowest bidder won the contract!

[@rabidpb]

​@@uhjyuff2095 Don't get me wrong, the install was all to a good standard, and to code; it was just all strange and unfamiliar to my experience.

[@bartz118]

I think this is the first DC charger that I have seen with a NACS connector besides on the supercharger network.

[@Smidge204]

I'd love to hear more details on the permitting process. Not only would that be more transferable knowledge to anyone else who might be thinking about installing DCFC, but maybe some of the hangups could be converted into politically actionable items i.e. talking to regulators/legislators about *specific* issues to streamline the process.

[@patrickmay8261]

Permitting is very specific to different AHJs. If that was in California, they would have spent thousands of dollars coming into compliance with ADA. You would have had an architect involved to draw the drawings for the layout of the spaces.

[@Smidge204]

@@patrickmay8261 Yes each jurisdiction will have its quirks, but that doesn't mean there can't be any lessons learned that can be broadly applied. Also ADA compliance is not difficult at all. I speak from experience on that one... all you need is to show the critical dimensions are being satisfied. Being in California makes little difference since ADA is a federal regulations not state. I can almost guarantee they needed and Engineer to design the install and draft plans for permitting anyway...

[@dobrzpe]

holy dejavu, Batman! thought i was going crazy around the 39 minute mark! LOL!

[@Trashed20659]

Now that is genius! As long as a limited number a EVs use it daily, you should have enough DC fast charging when needed!

[@uhjyuff2095]

right, the daily use should be under 144kWh a day so the battery can be recharged.

[@wuchengranschiiet9992]

So cool! Build a OOS charge park 😄

[@jeffs6090]

He's playing with that idea out at his new garage office space.

[@wingsounds13]

This is so cool. I can't wait for future videos with this and future chargers.

[@ahbushnell1]

Is this charger open to the public? My permitting for home solar took a very long time. It took one year.

[@Roeland54]

This charger was clearly designed with a 3 x 400V + N net connection in mind. A 400V system also provides 230V without transformer. So the external transformer is only needed because of the 480v net. Maybe this is also the explanation of the limited charge rate of 19kW while the 40A at 480v is able tot deliver 33kW of power. Looks like they are leaving some power on the table here. But this may be a limitation of the charger.

[@meandmyEV]

Great job everyone! I know you would not have released a video of a guy electrocuting himself but it still gave me anxiety to watch him hot wire that circuit. I shut off power to my entire house even just to change an outlet. 😂

[@peterjaniceforan3080]

How do you prevent the copper thieves from disabling in such a remote location ❓

[@BubbaBearsFriend]

Nice to know that crazy levels of red tape exists outside of California. But at least your contractor waded through all the red tape for you. Just curious, how much time did they have to spend on getting all the permits? Would it cost thousands of dollars more for a non-sponsored install?

[@sydneyg007]

Great video. Thanks for sharing!

[@AbolishCommunism]

One silverado ev needs a deep charge, and everyone else has to wait a day

[@ShelleyFrank-qh5or]

I can see how much work you put in!

[@jonathanhansen5976]

It looks like the electrical co-op around fort Collins is part of the tri-state co-op. That's where they get their power from. Our co-op in Taos New Mexico broke away from tri-state about 6 7 years ago. Many co-ops in Colorado have broken away since but we were the first to break off from tri-state. Tri-State is a sinking ship.

[@JH-uu7jl]

This will be a good video for Fort Collins too. I'd bet good $ that they don't know how long the permitting process can be for an end installer. Many hands touching the process can make for an unexpectedly long process. Seeing this will probably help more than hurt. I'm less sure that anything will change the rate structure. Lots of communities are not willing to add extra generation capacity for commercial users unless the commercial users pay for it. I'm fine with that and I think this type of charger is a perfect answer to that limitation because the battery can help to offset the lower peak output from the grid. I look forward to seeing how Fort Collins chooses to improve their permitting process to help meet their climate and energy goals.

[@busog97641]

*I never knew that mushroom was considered "exotic".*😉

[@alskjflaksjdflakjdf]

I wonder what the price is for the unit? It would be good for on the farm, where we only have 480V coming from the utility. Being able to fast charge would be super helpful.

[@patrickmay8261]

Probably $200,000. If you have 480 just go with something like a 24kw DCFC. ABB makes one. I'm sure there are others.

[@mspencer5519]

Very cool insights. Is that not gonna get drained after 3-4 cars? (Assuming 100kWh draw and 20kWh add in per hour).

[@garyprice1145]

Amazing video! This charger is very innovative.

[@christophersiano969]

Woo Hoo. Been waiting for this to drop!

[@viplav76]

Hi Kyle. Know this must have been expensive, but budget permitting, it would be great to add a board indicating recommending side of parking for different EVs. This is small but since it’s a test case, why not set some more good examples :) cheers. Further the board could have updatable sides or a digital one, to add newer models

[@fvkUis357]

what happened to the xcharge you installed in your house/garage, you said the'd be a follow up...stocked up for that

[@PeaceChanel]

Thank You Everybody for All that you are doing for our Planet Earth.... Peace.. Shalom.. Salam.. Namaste 🙏🏻 😊 ✌ ☮ ❤

[@DrDave_63395]

Kyle Really interested to learn of the duty cycle on your battery usage. And how much you derate power delivery when the battery is getting low. 19kW in and 150kW out means 8 to 1 when pulling 150kW from the battery.

[@MrKroolboy]

Cool documentation and while install and congratulation on the new charger 💪 Question: Is the Tesla NACS Plug&Charge actually the Damm complex mechanism that CCS with ISO 15118 or is it something else?

[@StephenJohnson-jr5hp]

Pete Buttigieg needs to watch this too. Thanks for sharing.

[@gmv0553]

He has nothing to do with local regulations!

[@djlorenz11]

Taxpayer money wasted in endless bureaucracy in permitting, if we really want to scale EVs, this has to change, quickly.

[@RayJohnson1980]

ask the crew at xcharge if they can get a evject type plugs for their chargers in nacs and ccs2

[@SoJa92]

Kyle, the Volts x Amps calculation is a little different for 3 phase. Your continuous rating for a 50a 480v 3 phase circuit should be around 33kW at unity power factor.

[@Roeland54]

As I understand from the video the charger is not using 3 phase but just mono-phase. Which seems crazy because with 3 phase they could use the full 33kW of the connection. But it must be a limitation of the charger.

[@SoJa92]

@@Roeland54 Single phase is 277v which they said they use for aux power in a transformer to bring it down to 240. That's why they need a neutral at the charger. The charger itself should be 3 phase(just like the other non-battery models).

[@boostav]

Was the L2 charger there previously single or 3 phase?

[@SoJa92]

@@boostav they pulled new wire for the dcfc

[@vhol93]

Super cool !

[@jamesnibert9329]

Is Solar power an option? If it's possible to build a covered parking lot utilizing solar on the roof to offset the grid. That would be great.

[@NIAtoolkit]

Kyle for Mayor

[@davenz000]

No then he'd have no time to do cool reviews dealing with the lunacy of paper shuffling. Should interview the city council however.

[@ronald4life1]

As complicated as this is, I can only imagine how much more difficult a new gas station would be!

[@fritzpaul2740]

What is the price of this Xcharge NZS🤔

[@Kimbrough87]

i watched the whole video love it

[@lennyl12]

When are we getting a part 2?

[@Snerdles]

You should see if you can get a review unit of the Point Guard energy 25kw DC fast charger for homes. I believe it can only output 25kw if pulling from solar, the battery stack, and AC... But 25kw DC at your house? I'm pretty much already sold.

[@otm646]

What's your situation at home where Level 2 AC charging isn't adequate?

[@Snerdles]

@@otm646 my situation at home is I'm a greedy bastard and tech nerd and want 25kw if it's available... But also since it's DC it can also support using the EV battery as an extension of the home battery at the same rate (they sell a 12.5kw and 25kw version). It doesn't seem to be working with any vehicles in North America yet but once it does it means I can have something like a 24kwh battery in the home stack and 84kwh in something like an Ioniq 5 to have access to massive amounts of power to last days if I need to in a winter storm.

[@vhol93]

Crazy stuff with permits..

[@cautilli]

can this be connected to a single phase power source? they are very common in usa

[@user-oo3uj5ku9r]

Hell yeah brother

[@Scoopta]

I do work on LV systems,

[@mikoske]

Looking forward to the next video! And yeah, no mushrooms on pizza!

[@tedspradley]

Man, City of Houston requires those bollards to be 36” below grade and set in concrete with the surrounding hole being 12” diameter. 34:16

[@icare7151]

Awesome!

[@VAF84]

Perfect example of government getting in the way of itself. I'm sorry you had to deal with those headaches, but this is what it's like for business. Government regulations and bureaucracy dictate everything. You exemplified this when explaining that you ended up installing this in a weird spot because of everything you'd have to do to place it somewhere more logical. On a bright note, thank you for helping me understand why so many chargers in S. Colorado and parts of NM are up to 60kW instead of fast chargers. I couldn't understand it. Also, as I found out when I bought my Lightning; GM for the win. Outside of Tesla, they have the most dependable and potentially only "fast" chargers in smaller cities. In fact, the Ford dealer I purchased my LER from had me go to the GM dealer for my first charge. Before Tesla became available, there was a time where GM dealers were my only option to charge in a 60 mile radius.

[@tazeat]

So you can add a second battery bank for 319kW max speeds? Keep the grid connection the same and now you can charge twice as many EVs at fast speeds?

[@patrickmay8261]

I think they max out at 200kw. Five 40kW DC to DC modules. Plus whatever you can get out of the rectifier modules and grid connection.