Interesting .22 Rifles: Can YOU Solve the Mystery?

PLEASE DONATE AND KEEP THIS CHANNEL ALIVE. Click here:
www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr...
I will be testing .22s in this video so make sure you watch until the end! We will also spend some time in the studio discussing the Savage 1912, the Stevens Visible Loader, and the R93 .22 straight pull. The Savage 1912 and the Stevens Visible Loader may not be quite what they seem and I'm hoping you can help solve the mystery! The R93 is spectacular, and the Winchester Model 77 and Savage 7H make guest appearances. This is a jam-packed video that I hope you find enjoyable and informative. Thanks for being here! Enjoy more USOG content by clicking below:
/ usog
/ officialusog
www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr...
Music: www.bensound.com

[@Ron_3813]

One of the german firearm manufacturers If I remember correctly was fairly famous for knocking off other designs at the time. The "kruppstahl" marking would lead me to believe this is a weimar era knockoff.

[@yourlocaltoad5102]

They said „Krupp Laufstahl“, so „Krupp barrel steel“ which implies that only the barrel was made by Krupp. Could be that some importer had them rebarelled by Krupp to drive up prices on the German market or maybe they imported them without the barrels

[@jimf1964]

The teeny tiny bit of collecting I’ve done was a little bit of historical, or just old, but I can see a veeeery deep rabbit hole people can fall into after watching your channel for a while. The huge variety of actions, and mechanical solutions people have come up with over the years is really interesting.

[@jimmeli5200]

Correct. Now I'm into the triple digits. Unfortunately watching USOG gives me "ideas" to track some of these down, which is also part of the fun.

[@in_car_nation6377]

Not long come across your channel.. what awesome , healthy and honest content.. I love .22 so underrated by many people . Outstanding video 👍🏻

[@chapiit08]

The visible loader not kicking the last round is the way the gun works as the new round coming from the magazine acts as the case ejector for the extracted empty, nothing wrong with it.

[@UnitedStatesOfGuns]

Now I know : ) Thank you!

[@chapiit08]

@Yo Joe You welcome JoJo. Thanks for not failing at being an asshole today too, lol!

[@achillebelanger9866]

Miserable Loader

[@ckbhack]

This wasn't obvious?

[@rex8958]

@Yo Joe you must have problems reading… Chapiit08 was the first person to comment anything regarding the Stevens Visible Rifle. You should thank him for being the first to comment it.

[@williamgaines9784]

The "delay" on the Savage is somehow connected to the resetting of the trigger. A great uncle had one with a tubular magazine and I shot a mixture of long rifle, longs, and shorts through it without any problem. It could hold a BUNCH of shorts. I always liked that rifle, but not sure what happened to it when he passed away. Maybe one of my siblings has it. Will have to check into it. You have a vast collection of interesting firearms. Thanks for sharing.

[@ThreenaddiesRexMegistus]

A BSA Ralock takes some beating for unreliability. Krupp is absolutely still around in big engineering. You’re 100% right on the high quality of those early 22 rifles, even many of the cheaper ones. One of the strangest ones that came over the counter was a Musgrave Ambidex. I immediately named it the ‘Both-hander’.

[@rupertmcnaughtdavis3649]

Musgrave Ambidex was made here in South Africa.

[@MilsurpGarage]

The Visible Loader is functioning properly. It’s the “next” round that pushes out the empty. Last round has no “next” so you have to either reload or pull it out manually. My video on the Visible Loader details it’s function. Check it out! Milsurp Garage

[@bc30cal99]

Thanks for that reply, it was timely. One was brought to my shop for me to take a look at a little bit ago and I haven't got to it yet. Now I have some information! Thanks again to you both.

[@UnitedStatesOfGuns]

Thank you!!!

[@robertshoemaker6204]

Awesome...thank you..yes love my clicky clat gill gun Stevens 87A...great design unusual bolt ops but works awesome...really enjoy your videos. I am in SW Oregon on the westside of the Cascades you are in Washington on the westside noticed all the Doug Fir on the logging road. Shoe

[@chrischiampo7647]

What’s Up Mil Surp 😀

[@MilsurpGarage]

Howdy CC.

[@kirkboswell2575]

I've never seen the first Savage, but the barrel mismatch isn't all that uncommon. Up until the 50's it was very cost effective to replace a worn out barrel. It was also pretty common to put "German" barrels on guns used for target matches. With a peep sight, I would suspect something on the target matches bit. As others have already said, the visible loader ejected shells by using the next cartridge. It's normal for the last round to stay put. The Stevens 87-A was a tack driver. It would handle short, long, and long rifle rounds without so much as a hiccup. And the single shot feature by pushing the bolt in was very handy at times. Savage, Springfield, and Stevens all made essentially the same gun at one time or other. Very good, very accurate guns as a rule. And yes, holding the trigger back would also hold the bolt. Don't remember the purpose exactly, but it was a design feature.

[@ericschulze5641]

That's exactly what it is, there were a LOT of machinists after the war & even up until the 1980s that could easily rebarrel ANY gun with a barrel with enough meat on it nowadays gunsmiths are parts changers

[@Lou.B]

Thanks Mike! Always great to see more examples from the 'evolutionary tree' of rifle tech - where the stories of even those with short 'lifespans' are very interesting!

[@mikemcquinn6738]

Always enjoy your videos!!

[@daveaver2804]

Like my larger caliber hunting rifles but the .22 is the king of fun. Thank you for the show-n-tell.

[@MJA5]

I think Krupps makes a lot of kitchen and electro domestics nowadays. Neat stuff!

[@bobbyscott8024]

Thank you for sharing these neat 22's with us! They are truly amazing just like you my friend! I am looking forward to the next video already. May God keep you and protect you in this new year!

[@missey316]

One of the best here on KZbin. Thank you for keeping these coming.

[@paulsimmons5726]

Savage/Stevens rifles are prone to jam, seize, or double feed if they're overtightened. I inherited my grandfather's Stevens 87A, actually a "Gambling Pioneer Stores 27A", and have learned to NEVER overtighten the screw that holds the stock and rifle together. All those old Savage/Stevens rifles were really well made. Your video brought back some great memories, thanks! Take care and be well!

[@michaelguerin56]

I once ran into a farmer (and hunting guide) based down in Banks Peninsula i.e., adjacent to Christchurch in the South Island of NZ. He had several barrels for his R93, including the .22 long rifle version. It apparently worked very well for him. He found the side feeding magazine, unsurprisingly, to be extremely reliable.

[@UnitedStatesOfGuns]

Hi Michael - Nice to picture the R93 working away on South Island NZ : ) Thanks for the note!

[@michaelguerin56]

@@UnitedStatesOfGuns ‘The South Island’, as I typed it! 🙂

[@roadking99jokerst60]

The older stuff that are just fun for the design and unique looks are really great. I owned a 1929 Savage pump that was fun and I have a 1892 Marlin lever in .32 that is just neat to own.

[@cayminlast]

Very interesting rifle. Always enjoy seeing older small bore forearms, fascinating designs and engineering.

[@regsparkes6507]

Now there are rifles I have never seen, thanks for sharing this with us. Good to be able to shoot with them too. Thanks for this.

[@c.j.rogers2422]

Always interesting, sir!

[@flintrichards945]

Thanks for all the good information looking forward to the next video.

[@kathrynleaser5093]

Endlessly interesting is a perfect description for the collector. Great video! Thank you. Love the 22 videos.

[@Dalesarty]

Really enjoyed the look at some rarely seen 22’s. Great video your collection never fails to impress and amaze me.

[@UnitedStatesOfGuns]

Thanks Dale

[@petrotmyrcz308]

Very interesting firearms you have there. Thanks for posting another great video.

[@cornbreadburgess1950]

Thanks for sharing your collection of 22oows, enjoyed watching,see you on the next one.

[@UnitedStatesOfGuns]

Thank you - see you soon : )

[@rickbattle5706]

Cool rifles. Love 22s. Learned a lot as always. Keep up the great work! :-)

[@UnitedStatesOfGuns]

Always appreciate the good words Rick!

[@94twentytwo76]

Goodness! Amazing rifles Sir 👍🏻really appreciate your sharing them. Beautiful country in the shooting footage! All the best

[@randyadams03]

My my very cool items from your collection. Thank you for sharing these.

[@stevelemmen7048]

Nothing more beautiful than a rifle with steel furniture, and s nice patina like the Savage. Very honest.

[@michaelcoei2850]

Krupp was a very well known and old German Company.

[@jimifed2798]

I remember seeing krupps fluid steel marked on turn of the century Ithaca miners and flues, s×s

[@bruceday6799]

Krupp is still in business. They make main battle tank guns for the US M-1 Abrams and the Germen Leopard II among others. Ask them.

[@dansaver8247]

Good show. Thank you.

[@kurtlanford1448]

Thanks for sharing your knowledge and time! I always enjoy your video.

[@UnitedStatesOfGuns]

Thanks Kurt!

[@MilsurpGarage]

The magazine on the 1912 is worth more than the gun! Those are like holy grails.

[@martyadams3915]

Over the years we had a couple of the 7h rifles come through the shop and they were strange to shoot to begin with but once you got used to the little delay in the action those rifles were incredible. The .22 doesn't have much noticeable recoil at all but autoloader actions on .22 rifles do add to movement on those rifles although you knew the bullet was long gone but in your mind the delayed movement makes you feel like you are shooting a single shot target rifle. A very good shooting gun.

[@james.1980]

You should know the second bolt locking hole on the Winchester 77 is used to fire 22 shorts as a single shot, as that cartridge has insufficient power to work the action.

[@marknielsen2482]

I've got the visible loader. Having to make some of the parts. Looking forward to shooting it. Just a cool looking rifle

[@jorgeposadas1192]

Really nice video.

[@zing913945]

The visible loader pump is a real dream. Another super video, Thanks

[@UnitedStatesOfGuns]

Thank you!

[@d.g.n9392]

When I was about 25, in the 1970’s. An older man and friend gave me his youth rifle. A 22 short savage 1911 bolt action, the shells feed through a tube in the butt of the stock. It holds 20 shells. He owned it since he was a teenager. And he gave to me, he didn’t have any kids or grandkids. I still am proud to own it, if functions well. I don’t see many of these. Thank you for the channel and the videos.

[@UnitedStatesOfGuns]

Hi D.G.n - thanks for writing! Scarce and valuable rifle! Here is one : www.collectorsfirearms.com/products/148855-savage-1911-22-short-r28950.html Any .22 short dedicated rifle is not easy to find as you know. I've always liked the .22 Short : quiet, accurate and ideal power level for my purposes. Your Savage is a touch of class for sure. All the best to you.

[@jamesdietz6899]

So awesome!

[@keithschneidly3922]

I don't think that was made here. Those bbls. (Savage) were soft and corroded easily. Someone likely rebarrelled it.

[@FenWolf68]

Sir you should do a collab with Forgotten Weapons, that pump action has a fascinating mechanism.

[@eduardohermoso150]

Great video Sir!! Thanks for sharing. I am hoping that you have a Walthet KKJ. They were made in .22 lr, . 22 magnum and. .22 Hornet.

[@KrugerrandFarms]

The Winchester M77. I have three of them Two tube feed and one with the clip mag. Excellent rifles one had been my dad's and the first rifle I ever shot. I shot cases of ammo through this one. They are striker fired, difficult to disassemble and clean properly so they tend to get dirty. The firing pins can break. Lovely styling made to resemble the centerfire rifles Winchester made, M88 and M100 I think. Thank you for your content and as usual I commend you on the humility of your presentation.

[@UnitedStatesOfGuns]

Thank you ! I found a tube model and so will show that on a video - thanks for noting. I found the tube model totally messy inside - just as you said - I used brake cleaner and it is spotless now and runs like an IBM Selectric - if you know what I mean. Cheers!

[@TARandFEATHERS]

Enjoyed it.

[@subterfusion4005]

The Stevens 87 does indeed use the "floating chamber" designed by David Marshall "Carbine" Williams. As does the similar Remington 550 and 550-1 .22 as well as the Winchester 50 and 59 shotguns.

[@thurmanmills1255]

Those are some great little guns glad to see you video thank you. God bless you and your family

[@MrSiestaFiesta]

22s are some of my favorite firearms. They are just a load of fun.

[@shadowwolf9329]

The visible loader 22 short shell is a rare rifle indeed I would love to own one myself..

[@johnspruit7296]

Winchester Model 77 is a beautiful clean design. Wish it was still made. Ontario Canada.

[@UnitedStatesOfGuns]

Hi John - I didn't know the 77 was also made in Canada. Always nice to see things "Made in Canada"

[@kw03hanel82]

I would think that the savage 1912 was rebarreld at some point with the Stevens Visible loader. Savage always marked the stock and butt plate with the serial number under the butt plate. May be able to look there and see. The Savage 1912 was the first production semiautomatic rifle in 22 LR. All the other earlier semiautomatic 22’s where chambered in proprietary cartridges. Like the Winchester 1903 and the early Remington semiautomatics

[@briankerr4512]

i like that visible loader ... that is so cool

[@JohnSmith-xs4sx]

I've never seen any of those before , thanks

[@richarddixon7276]

I always enjoy Your shows , but I enjoy the small bore video's best of all . Thanks . Shoot Straight Stay Safe & Stay Well.

[@cpborrelli]

Great video Mike

[@UnitedStatesOfGuns]

Thanks Charles : )

[@lindellcenter5410]

Thanks agin for the video I enjoyed it learned something agin, keep them coming.

[@UnitedStatesOfGuns]

Hi Lindell! You're most welcome - thanks for being here!

[@tacocin]

Sweet 22's! Love them!

[@ThomasRonnberg]

The trigger on that R93

[@williamstuart9812]

Neat rifles Mike. Wish I knew more about them, especially the barrels. I’ve only ever handled one example of both of those models. They were in terrible condition really although we did get the visible loader running. The bores were very pitted,which may shine a light on how yours came to be. Today’s shooter may never have to clean the barrel of a .22. Indeed I normally only clean action and chambers. In the early days corrosion could be awful with lubricated corrosively primed ammunition. Someone who knows more than me about European rifles may know where the barrels came from.

[@HameedBee]

Wow amazing .22s the craftsmanship on these is just stunning. Loved the blazer so slick! I happen to have BRUNO 581 very accurate rifle btw in which part of Canada you are located

[@shadowwolf9329]

My uncle had a 22 caliber lever action when he loaded the shell in he did so from the top

[@jimifed2798]

Hello, fine sir. Your 7h has the same action of a salvage 6dnl that I used to own . In the states they were called "clicky -clacks " for that strange sound of the action. Next time u shoot it take a shot and keep the trigger depress the action will stay open when you release the trig it will slam closed making the clack . When I used to use mine I would change the timing between shots and it sounded like a horse walking on cobblestones. Totally kool. Downside it jammed alot with some ammo. Thanks for reminding me of the rifle.

[@UnitedStatesOfGuns]

Thanks Jimi - I'm going to try to make the horse on cobblestones! : ) Thanks for thew note.

[@kicknsystm]

I have a rifle that looks like that model H hanging above my in-home shop door. I wanted to complete the gun but can't find the needed parts. Looks like a fun one. I think I only lack three parts or so.

[@charlesmckinley29]

Those are certainly more interesting than the gun you picked for best 22. 😉 Thank you for the video.

[@oldgoat1890]

I bought a Hamilten single shot .22 bolt action at a flea market for $7. I thought it was a BB gun at first glance. It is marked .22 short only. Apparently someone decided to go a little hotter and the barrel was blown out about 2" from the chamber. The barrel is actually a piece of sheet metal that was wrapped around a rifled mandrel and roll pressed. The barrel is floating inside a larger tube and that is why it looks like a BB gun. Older people tell me you could get rifles like this with saved up box tops. Yeah, the good old days before lawyers.

[@stevegimenez9981]

That was a very good video I learned some things

[@ibpositivemostly7437]

Cool video thanks.

[@davidfriend1919]

nice channel .. I enjoyed this .

[@jensenwilliam5434]

Thank you!! What happened to your index finger. I thought that only happened to me.

[@mikewinings4120]

You should do a video on the Daisy vl rifle,caseless cartridge rifle,thanks for the great videos!

[@shadowwolf9329]

The second rifle is 62A pump 22 rifle I am not sure on the age though

[@soldtobediers]

Comb drops on 1st 2 looks to insure a fast leveling target acquirement.

[@UnitedStatesOfGuns]

I agree - just right for that.

[@reubendobbs8011]

I think they are gallery guns and the swivels are for chains maybe, love them both.

[@thomaskoppel2439]

Hey Mike! Outside of the 1912 I have, yours is the only one I've seen! It belonged to my dad as a kid in the 30's, was well used before he bought it, traded it to a guy before he went off to war and traded back for it when he got home. Literally burned the barrel out, i suppose from corrosive ammo,well worn, lost the original bolt handle and used a stove bolt in its place. Dad quit using it, called it a "hanger, not a banger"! When I got it, I sent it off to one of our better gunsmiths, Dick Williams in Saginaw. He put a barrel liner in it, but the bolt face was so eroded it would not head space. Since findings a 1912 bolt is like finding hens teeth, I guess it's back to being a "hanger". Oh well... BTW, that magazine is the same one used in the pump action Savage of the same vintage. Too, I think the one in your video must have been a custom barrel replacement job, can't imagine it otherwise. Thanks again for the video and if you ever come across a 1912 bolt, make sure and get hold of me!

[@Dalesarty]

That’s a pretty cool story, need to make sure that stays with the rifle. I’ve found names, dates and all kinds of things under butt plates and barrels of old rifles. Then you look at its marks and begin to wonder the story its trying to tell. And maybe a good machinists that likes a challenge could reproduce that damaged bolt. I’ve found them very helpful many times.

[@kirkboswell2575]

Thomas - That eroded bolt face can be fixed. TIG weld the bolt face enough to have some machining room, then remill the face back to spec. Won't be cost effective, but if you want to make it functional again, you can.

[@Dalesarty]

@@kirkboswell2575 I very rarely find it to be cost effective when you gotta start reproducing or refacing parts either. But it’s very satisfying when done

[@cs-vf2de]

that big knob on the side seconds as a screw in peep dish, the knob (peep) also screws into the rear iron sight hole. I think.

[@stevenscoville2773]

As usual, a very good episode on one of my favorite obsessions, .22 rifles. As soon as I saw the profile of the first rifle I knew it was a Savage, mostly because of the magazine. I haven't found a suitable model 1912 but do have the version patent dated 1906. I wasn't aware at the time, of a .22 pump using a detachable magazine almost like a pistol, especially so early. I grabbed it because it is a beautiful walnut pistol grip stock with a 24" octagonal barrel. Takes S, L, & LR but most important it came with 2 original magazines which are virtually impossible to find now. Since the Germans were very fond of shooting .22's during the early 20th century before WW2, it wouldn't surprise me if U.S. made rifles found their way over and were later modified/repaired, since many really quality .22 rifles were being made over there at the time. Last note; many don't realize that the model 77 was made in both detachable mag and tube mag versions. Here again, don't lose the mag as it is not the same as the 5 & 10 shot mags used on the model's 52, 56, 57, and 75. The original Winchester marked mags are not cheap at upwards of $100 (not to be confused by the replacements made years ago stamped with a "W" on the bottom. Good mags, not made by Winchester). Like the idea of a collaboration with gun guru Ian, you know he could find some interesting content from your "vault".

[@UnitedStatesOfGuns]

Thank you Steven! No end to the interesting knowledge in guns - especially .22s. Good on you to have made that purchase.

[@daneaxe6465]

I got a bucket of parts at an auction. With a lot of researching I'm still not sure what the real model number is. Definitely an early Savage pump .22 with detachable magazine. I was going to get back into shooting shape but I couldn't find a decent stock for it. It has a lot in common in shape of most parts as the first gun on this video. Pulling from dusty memory IIRC I sort remember Model 25 is what I settled on. However sources seemed vague on years and features.

[@georgetreepwood1119]

My humble contribution on the "Maybe" Savage -- if one were to get an undoubtedly Savage made one and ck parts interchangeability . If they match note for note , it's a Savage that was exported and perhaps Krupp retailed or re barreled ....or someone in Europe put "Krupp" on it for marketing --it did happen.

[@kenaidog6974]

The Savage 1912 smells like Anschutz to me.

[@kevincraig6407]

my favorite gun channel, mike now that your going to do savage next, did the model24 ever come in 17hm2/410?, to me that would be the perfect squirrel hunting weapon.

[@shadowwolf9329]

It could be the first semi auto loading rifle dated before 1960

[@waylonlegend4603]

My father had a 1912 savage like the one in the picture

[@libertyrevolutionary1776]

The function of that looks like a precursor to the Henry survival rifle in .22lr... Basically the colt AR-7 survival rifle.

[@derekedgley5074]

I had one of these R93 in .17HMR and traded it to Gregor Macleod Tain. Exceptionally accurate and I used it with great effect to fill the pot on a Namibian safari

[@UnitedStatesOfGuns]

You're a rare find - just about no one has owned one!

[@derekedgley5074]

@@UnitedStatesOfGuns Thanks . Gregor Macleod Tain has still got this rifle for sale.

[@spencereagle1118]

It's very like early CZ rimfire semi-autos, maybe the savage mag happens to fit?

[@joemomma6607]

Send picture to forgotten weapons, Ian will know!

[@guycossettecossette7444]

those kind of models ,were using multiples compagnies barrels, you can add LeFaucheux, lAresenal,Muser etc ...

[@AmstradExin]

The first 2 rifles look pretty steampunk-ish to me.

[@UnitedStatesOfGuns]

That's true

[@shoelessbandit1581]

Thing about 22s is anyone with a half baked machine shop can make and sell them so there tends to be a lot of odd balls out there. Rarest gun I own precision industry arms wildcat which only about 6,000 were made

[@jorgechalub8930]

Muy bueno tu vídeo saludos desde Argentina

[@UnitedStatesOfGuns]

¡Gracias y todo lo mejor para ti en Argentina!

[@stevedouglas5443]

Yes, I peed my pants when I thought that was a live round. LoL

[@LOUDcarBOMB]

If the 1912 Savage or that Rolling Block version has that Krupp barrel, are there any proof marks that could give more info like type of metal, date manufactured, proof date, proof load used, or maybe other countries it's been proofed in?

[@garyjohnson4608]

Hmmm, interesting quandary.

[@jimbayler4277]

The discrepancies you find on the "Savage", is probably due to it possibly being produced by Krup under license from Savage. Savages design by Krup with a few tweaks for the local market, or Krups style/way of fabrication. Probably came back with some G.I. as a war trophy.

[@scooterdogg7580]

my father has an old single shot "zella" , uses a half moon type extractor which is missing , I can't seem to find anything about it anywhere

[@KathrynLiz1]

Looks like somebody re-barreled them, which would explain the strange sling swivel arrangements on both..... If a gun smith had a couple of German barrels in the shop it'd be quite easy to machine them to fit the savage actions....

[@robertfandel9442]

Sounds more like a military contract requirement.

[@larrykrise3609]

in the 1950,s my dad had a savage 22 pump.you could drive nail,s with it.open sites.

[@UnitedStatesOfGuns]

Roger that Larry - amazing how excellent they are.

[@stevemyers2092]

off topic but, looking to buy a semi-auto 18.5" barrel 12GA for the bush -just for safety SSG/SLUG/SSG/SLUG/ repeat - what do you think would be the most reliable - Benelli M3/4 or Beretta 1301 or the Mossberg 930? or a Remington or ?

[@joracer1]

That 7h is like a 87d, the bolt stays back until you reset the trigger, plus you can single shot it or semi auto or use as a bolt action, Bolt will lock open or closed am I right? 87d is highly desired also.

[@judodavid1]

Nice

[@ronsindric4241]

There is sooo much more that I do not know compared to the very little I do. My "collecting" procliveates to 22 oddities that can be had for a low price. Have you ever done a Post on GARDEN GUNS, CARNIVAL GUNS or PARLOR GUNS? Would appreciate a Historical Post dipping into the far past that shows the earliest .22 rifles. There was a military training SPRINGFIELD 1903 chambered in .22 your thoughts ? Are there any other historically significant military training rifles chambered for the .22 ?

[@UnitedStatesOfGuns]

Great idea - I'll work on putting a video together! Thanks for the note!