Intersex Has NOTHING To Do With Gender

Helen Joyce explains the bizarre reasoning trans ideologues use to try to make intersex relevant to the debate.
Watch the full episode here: • Only A Man Can 'Identi...
#trans #intersex #antiwoke

[@hereticsclips]

Thoughts below! Is intersex another sex? Or is it a red herring? Hit like!

[@Ifailedeverything]

In order for there to be third sex you’d need that third sex for reproduction. Male and female gametes make a new life. No third type of dna is required to reproduce. The closest thing I can even think of would be flowers and plants needing bees or wind to carry the pollen. And even then it’s not a third sex. The bee isn’t giving any dna. It’s just a symbiotic relationship.

[@AlbertPaysonTerhune]

Not another sex, but sex is bimodal and some people are effectively neither/nor or both/and. I've never heard a 2.7% estimate, but if you eliminate DSDs (which Joyce here faithfully invokes to confuse the issue) you still have a fair 1-2% approximation. This is not newfangled thinking, it's a loose estimate that was around 50-60 years ago. We're not going to get a tighter estimate until we do a broad-based survey, which may not even be useful in the end since the criteria keep evolving. "Intersex" is NOT a deprecated word; it's the word intersex people use. The militant erasure of it is a constant goal of GC sloganeering.

[@maryskelcher8979]

Kathleen Stock addresses this in her excellent book 'Material Girls '. My recollectión is that this came from an academic called Judith Butler. A big part of this trans mess is due to academics seeking increasingly extreme theories/theses rewarded by publucation/career advancement.

[@albertchurchill4845]

@@maryskelcher8979 The transgender ideology is driven by neo-Marxists. Their goal is the elimination of gender. Because the gender binary created the nuclear family, and that upholds capitalism.

[@ginaweith9475]

Intersex, probably needs a different name. It is rare. My understanding is that intersex people do not want to be used in the trans debate. They do not want to be the card up the sleeve of trans-activists or used as a talking point in this debate.

[@TheNesbittExperience]

Dr Helen Joyce is a hero of mine. Thank you for having her on! 👏🏻

[@amyh9512]

Interesting

[@TFlint_]

You’re a hero of mine for saying so. Agreed.

[@ginaweith9475]

She needs to testify before congress.

[@ginaweith9475]

@trinitybassguitar-ru6dz 😂🤣😂🤣. Are you triggered? She is clear speaking, specific and exact. She clearly defines terms and gives concrete examples. Exactly what you would expect from a journalist who worked at the economist. There is nothing that could be misunderstood in her communication. Her expertise is in mathematics. Her data has been thoroughly vetted and calculated and recalculated. You couldn’t ask for a better communicator. She is also logical, practical, sensible and reasonable. It’s a delight to read what she has written. She can clear up a gray area better than most people on this planet. And all you can think to do is call her a villain? 😂🤣😂🤣. You do not have the capacity to challenge this woman on any subject.

[@ginaweith9475]

@trinitybassguitar-ru6dz ‘gender identity’ is a new invention taught to younger generations. Gender and sex are synonyms and always have been until a certain belief system was created. Your neo-religion isn’t something most of us are buying. 3 year olds have much better fantasies and creative notions than the made up ‘gender identity’ nonsense you peddle.

[@Lydia-Frost]

Crazy that when we state simple facts...people call us bigots and phobes. Thanks for bringing sanity back into conversations.

[@brianpark8758]

I have to admit, the intersexual argument caught me out & I fell for it. I`m glad it`s been explained properly.

[@landor7610]

Whenever i brought up how it was such a small percent of the population they always argued how huge 1% was.... then i'd mention how 3-7% of rape allegations were verifiably false, and they would explain how that is really small and how it's different.

[@charlybeagrie1119]

Time we stopped using the word "gender" and stick to sex.

[@ursulastaempfli759]

"Gender" doesn't exist in other languages. There is only sex and social sex roles that have been assigned to the sexes in different societies and at different times. If you don't conform with the social role(s) or behaviours of your sex, it doesn't mean that you're not your sex. There may be people with mental and emotional issues concerning the perception of their body and there may be people of either sex who are unconventional in their societies but that doesn't mean that they are not their sex. "Intersex" is a physical condition of an impaired development that doesn't constitute a "third" sex and it has nothing to do with the "gender" nonsense. Basically these "trans people and activists" are trying to turn back time right into the misogynist 19th century when socities had very restricting ideas about how men and women had to look and behave and what they were allowed to do socially and professionally. The women's rights movement of that time had a hard time to fight against all these stereotypes and these were social and political struggles and now these trans idiots are enforcing these stereotypes on a physical level and that is even more dangerous and unsettling compared to the 19th century when women were allowed only a limited choice of professions or weren't allowed to go to university and had no right to vote.

[@manchegocheese997]

I agree, gender has become synonymous with personality.

[@torinwulfren9463]

@@manchegocheese997it is. Gender is masculine/feminine personality traits. Hence “social construct” Words like: Man, Woman, Boy, Girl, Lady, Guy ect. are words in description of sex, not gender.

[@DragNetJoe]

Don't cede the language. Gender and biological sex have been used interchangeably since pretty much forever. The idea that sex and gender are independent is new and unique in like the past 5 years. What you guys are talking about are "gender roles" or masculinity/femininity.

[@sianais]

​@@torinwulfren9463Yeah, but only in sociology, it still means sex, as in male/female. The sociological meaning they're trying to replace it with is not even a true synonym because the word would have no meaning at all since their circular definition makes it undefinable.

[@aoibhg1211]

Trans-identifying males are not women and people need to stop referring to them as such! An amazing interview, thank you

[@Lydia-Frost]

I had to read that more slowly just to make sure you weren't saying trans-men. That way of saying it makes sense, though!

[@ginaweith9475]

@@aoibhg1211 men cannot be women. Women cannot be men. There is no operation that will change your sex. Your sex chromosomes are in every cell in your body. .

[@manchegocheese997]

A: I've transitioned B: Into what? A: A woman B: What is that? A: Someone who identifies as a woman B: You've transitioned into someone who identifies as a woman???

[@pencilpauli9442]

A: I've misrepresented an argument B; Why? A: Because I feel that I need to punch down to make myself feel better. B: You've transitioned into a bigot.

[@manchegocheese997]

@@pencilpauli9442 You won't silence me by calling me a bigot. Here's another uncomfortable fact for you: Trans-women are men! Oh, the horror!

[@manchegocheese997]

@@pencilpauli9442 Your silly name-calling will not silence me. If you disagree with anything I've written, explain why you think it's wrong? My example follows trans-logic and includes the new definition of woman, so what exactly is your problem?

[@pencilpauli9442]

@@manchegocheese997 From your own words you said even the idea of someone being trans is absurd. Therefore you are denying an entire demographic population their humanity. I fail to see how it is silly to say you are a fascist when you align yourself to fascist ideology. I've explained why I think you are wrong, plenty.

[@manchegocheese997]

@@pencilpauli9442 I am not denying that there is a demographic who believe that they are the opposite gender/sex, but such belief is clearly absurd. If I say that an anorexic is not fat, am I denying them their humanity? I don't think you know what a fascist is (because you clearly don't) so perhaps you shouldn't use the word, and you've explained nothing.

[@azazel0783]

Oh look, someone talking common sense... The asylum is being run by the patient's at the moment.

[@aabracadavra]

Perfect analogy.

[@Coelacanth1]

Yeah it's called freedom of speech

[@Woke_Invaders]

​​​@@Coelacanth1Freedom of speech doesn't imply that what you express is: a) right b) harmless (and if it's not harmless, then it's worth being fought against)

[@elliec4154]

It's a bit like saying, because some people are born with 1 leg, people can choose how many legs they have. I mean... you can mutlate yourself in the search for less legs, but then you've just hurt yourself, and nothing you ever do will give you three, or six, or a hundred legs.

[@sweetbobbybliss]

Outstanding comment! I’m saving this!

[@AlbertPaysonTerhune]

No, it's nothing like that at all, because you can see when a leg is missing, and you are very likely to know if you yourself are missing one. Intersex conditions, conversely, tend not to be diagnosed till adolescence or even adulthood, or-perhaps in the majority of instances-never get diagnosed at all. Most are not visible infant malformations. Our estimates of such conditions are thus based on the relative handful of people who get diagnosed and reported. Additionally it's important to remember most people wish to be discreet about such things, and then there are vested interests who like to push the notion that these conditions are ultra-rare, or even will tell you that all intersex conditions are *really* either male or female, full and entire.

[@RKingis]

Since 17000 people in the US have Albinism, everyone is legally blind!

[@simonhadley8829]

PZ Myers is a punk running his own little cult up there in Minnesota.

[@pedrogascon604]

The intersex argument is the easiest argument to win 😂

[@uptoncriddington6939]

Yes, clownfish can change sex, so when they do so, they aren’t called trans female or trans male clownfish, they are called male clownfish when they are male and female clownfish when they are female clownfish because they genuinely undergo this alteration WHEREAS human beings simply don’t have this sort of changeable sexual physiology.

[@jcortese3300]

Not to mention that yes, clownfish can change sex, but clownfish can also breathe water. Can a human then choose to breathe water? When I stop and think about it, I still can't entirely believe we live in a world where weird academic abstractions broke out of Tumblr and are now being used to take cycling prize money away from actual women. Preaching to the choir ...

[@AlbertPaysonTerhune]

Why do you people always bring up this 'clownfish' nonsense? Are you all clownfish fanciers?

[@jcortese3300]

@@AlbertPaysonTerhune Someone didn't watch the video ...

[@AlbertPaysonTerhune]

@@jcortese3300 Just answer the question. What do clownfish have to do with the subject, other than being a tiresome strawman argument?

[@jcortese3300]

@@AlbertPaysonTerhune Funny, we terfs have been asking ourselves that question of you for ages.

[@lizlanman47]

When I first heard of "intersex," it was presented as a more sensitive alternative to "hermaphrodite."It wasn't used as meaning neither sex. I haven't heard the word Hermaphrodite in years and decades. I thought it was a classical and poetic word.

[@laurafenton6776]

Idiot

[@AlbertPaysonTerhune]

It became regarded as derogatory because its demotic form, "morphodite," was often applied to homosexuals.

[@cathygrandstaff1957]

Technically the word “hermaphrodite” means an organism that has both male and female reproductive systems, for example the vast majority of plants, snails, corals and jellyfish are hermaphroditic. It’s inappropriate to use on humans because humans are never hermaphrodites, they are either male or female, with rare examples failing to develop a functioning reproductive system due to some sort of genetic or developmental defect.

[@AlbertPaysonTerhune]

@@cathygrandstaff1957 No, that's not what hermaphrodite means in humans, and it never has meant that. Going back to my mother's medical books of 80 years and more ago, there were always three classifications: true hermaphrodite, and then pseudohermaphrodite (male) and pseudohermaphrodite (female). The last two were a judgment call, of course (how do you determine a pseud?) but all were regarded as being under the herm umbrella.

[@Justthegoodstuff-gh2xx]

​@@AlbertPaysonTerhune The term "True hermaphrodite" is outdated.

[@clanpsi]

2.7%? There isn't even that high of a percentage of homosexuals in the general population. O_o

[@rachelnichols7347]

My daughter has a difference in sex development (intersex). I think it’s important that individuals who have an actual intersex diagnosis be a part of this conversation.

[@RKingis]

Most of us just say Intersex. The DSD was forced on us by a bunch of doctors, and it downgrades the true effects they have on our body's.

[@salvolondon]

What does she have ? Cause nowadays anything out of the ordinary is called “intersex “ . Women with Turner syndrome are not intersex , men with Klinefelter syndrome are not intersex , individual with true hermaphroditism or pseudo hermaphroditism are intersex. And these are extremely rare .

[@scottmcfadyen293]

I was taught that those that are outside the binary are known as Mutations. Evolution requires a man and a woman to reproduce for genes to be passed on - that is how the evolutionary process works with humans. We do have a lot of humans who are mutations as nature makes a lot of mistakes and we should show compassion towards the inflicted , but not to undermine reality.

[@albertchurchill4845]

We were screwed as soon as the government started testing nuclear devices in the open. It did give us a way of knowing if a piece of furniture was the age sellers said.

[@peterjermey7235]

Really the question that our societyis facing is what legal rights you should give to people who fall out of the norm. I was reading the other day that a library in, I think, Ohio had canceled a private event because the event was for LGBT teenagers. Such obvious discrimination would clearly be illegal in the UK, but the social discussion is to what extent it should be legal to discriminate against LGBT people. About a decade ago lots of western countries started allowing gay people to marry and I think that most people seem to think that's enough equality or even overly generous and are desperately trying to latch onto pseudo scientific or pseudo religious arguments on what is really a secular moral issue

[@scottmcfadyen293]

@@peterjermey7235 Isn't that obvious .. the same rights as everyone else ? there is no such thing as a secular morality. materialism cannot have a morality. religion has a morality as it has absolutes. materialism has no absolutes.

[@peterjermey7235]

@@scottmcfadyen293 I didn't mention materialism. Unfortunately we have a lot of disagreement over LGBT rights else this video shouldn't exist. A big crunch point is should schools be teaching kids about LGBT people or not or, as in Florida now and the UK in the 90s, should it be illegal for teachers to talk about LGBT people? That's just an example.

[@lizd2943]

Literally every organism ever born has mutations. Learn biology.

[@CornbreadOracle]

Interesting. Side note: I like her sweater. If she knit it herself, she did a great job.

[@mikescollard6499]

Huh? Time to bake more cornbread Sheila.

[@cherylkerkin1]

Why would she??😆

[@flupetepak]

it was her husband.

[@davidwolstenholme6413]

I thought exactly the same thing! Wow! I love it.

[@pesahson]

@@cherylkerkin1why would she not? Imagine that some people actually knit as a hobby and then wear what they made. Mindblowing, I know. 🤦‍♀

[@piedbald47]

Thank you, Andrew. I enjoy knowing what all sides are, I appreciate the knowledge here.

[@Strange9952]

Yeah the term intersex has caused more damage than good

[@Coelacanth1]

In what way?

[@ijansk]

Please, provide subtitles on Spanish or open the option for people to add them themselves. These conversations don't take palce as much as they do in the English-speaking world.

[@hereticsclips]

ah, no se como hacerlo! es una lastima, porque hablo español...vivi en argentina por 6 años...pero no se como abrir la posibildad para que la gente agrega subtitulos hmmm

[@memoryhero]

for what it's worth, Whisper by OpenAI (it ought to be free to get it installed on your machine) can probably make a full transcript with timestamps and then ChatGPT can probably turn that into a great Spanish translation with timestamps in order to be used for the video. (Andrew, if you're interested in this possibility, I could conceivably give it a go myself, if you're keen) Okay, I gave it a go. I have a .vtt file which I believe can be appended to the video which would provide good Spanish subtitles. I followed the method I suggested. All manual, but it was a good exercise. I even went back and cleaned up the tiny amount of errors in speech detection from the original vid. If my .vtt file isn't bang on, I know it's close and that with some patience, it can work, and produce the desired result.

[@ijansk]

@@hereticsclips Antes se podía activar una opción con la que las mismas personas que ven los videos podían agregar subtítulos en sus idiomas. Si la opción ya no está disponible podrías buscar a alguien que pudiera agregarlos. Si lo puedes hacer sería ideal porque este tema no se conversa en los países de habla castellana.

[@ijansk]

@@memoryhero I speak English. I have no problems to understand the conversation. What I want is spreading these conversations to Spanish-speaking countries because this topic is not discussed in Spanish-speaking countries where trans activism face no criticism or questioning and is presented as harmless.

[@memoryhero]

Yeah, I get that... and Spanish subtitles seems like a good option... which is why I created them. @@ijansk

[@r.c.3614]

What is a woman is not Matt Walsh's question. KELLIE-JAY has been asking that question for YEARS

[@martignyvalais9635]

Thank goodness for common sense!

[@ginaweith9475]

Thank you for this!

[@KremIsis]

I can tell a simple fact, that happened to me. For studying reasons, I made a lot of research on intersex before 2019. Back then, it was relatively easy to find scientific material available online (take it with a grain of salt: if you want to study something scientific, you normally have to dig into books, but sometimes you can find free reliable sources online on specific topics which are not extremely popular). Anyway, most of those scientific efforts disappeared after the new wave of 'everyoneiseveryone', unreliable contents appeared everywhere, and the entire topic became incomprehensible to most people. My humble opinion, this si massively disrespectful to those affected by such conditions, and more people should try and defend the rights of the real minority. As an LGBTQIA+ person myself, I am extremely disappointed by the exploitation of others in order to pursue what's clearly a political agenda. I really hope more people will stand up not for the obscene reasons some right-winged people are advocating these issues for, but out of authentic, mutual respect that should exist among people; in other words, the LGBTQIA+ community, as a whole, should stop being ridiculous, and get back to its senses before no one remembers good reasons to advocate for those rights really existed. I'm getting old, but younger generations are being led in a terrifying direction, meant to benefit someone, not everyone. That's not the future many, me included, envisioned for our community: one where we could be simply people, among other people, and live our life. Respect yourselves by learning the truth, not ideologies of any kind, specially the toxic ones. Respect yourselves.

[@jcortese3300]

"As an LGBTQIA+ person myself" -- I have to request of you to please NOT use this term. Any term that can encompass men who like to have sex with other men, women who like soccer and rockclimbing, and teenagers who aren't sure of any of this yet doesn't mean much. If you're a gay man, say so. If you are a woman who likes wearing flannel shirts and work boots, say so.

[@KremIsis]

@@jcortese3300 man, so difficult, I'm too old for this. Have sex with whoever you want, if you find someone who thinks you'r fun. good luck!

[@metaldemort]

As a 52 years old intersex person myself, I respectfully disagree with your statement. Since 2020, I have been searching for and finding books and academic works on the biology of sexuation, on intersex and gender non-conforming people in history, on the history of social treatment of intersex and gender non-conforming people, on the history of medicine, on the feminist takes on gender and sex, and more. And it doesn't seem to me that there has been much more reliable information and research before: instead, there has been more research and work done quite recently, and more specific work, because some of this work and research is carried out by scientists who themselves happen to be intersex people (or trans, or otherwise belonging to the LGBTQIA+ community). The only political agenda I see among us is the fight for our fundamental human rights: unconditional respect for the fact of our very existences, respect for our autonomy, our integrity and our bodily autonomy. The political agenda of the far right is clear and the same as it has always been: the far right is trying to erase us, whether by denying our existence, by deliberately constructing and spreading ignorance and moral panics against us, or by eliminating our rights.

[@Coelacanth1]

Imagine,everything you read is out of date, for the latest discoveries have not been published yet.

[@KremIsis]

@@Coelacanth1 true of course, even though this is not a topic that should be susceptible of being rediscovered every two weeks. And it has become quite a farse since I posted my comment. I suppose you are well informed, more than common people like me, on the topic.

[@Glenda-px4we]

Loved this!

[@ryanmacarthur1299]

So to make it basic, the "feelings" people decided to take advantage of the real biological issues and those affected by them. And became even more victims by acclimitizing their feelings to true disabling issues that threaten lives. Not "feeling" like you may be threatened. Those are two opposing realities.

[@AJManol]

❤❤🙌🏻

[@kimlandefeld3005]

Now if she could just drop the 'anti-vax' denigration.

[@janeyrevanescence12]

Intersex is super rare though. I’ve never met an intersex person (that I’m aware of).

[@AlbertPaysonTerhune]

Well they don't advertise themselves, unless you count reddit postings. But they're at least ten times as common as transsexuals.

[@rachelnichols7347]

My daughter has an intersex condition and we live in a place where people with disorders of sex development from all over the country are medically treated, so it doesn’t feel that rare to me any more. Really wish people who actually are affected by these conditions were privy to be part of these conversations.

[@metaldemort]

Now it’s done, at least online. 🙂 And there is almost no way you haven't met more than one intersex person yet, without having known about it. We're not that rare - about 2% - but we don't "look intersex" and we can go years, decades, or even our entire lives, without knowing about it. From the outside, some of us appear very feminine, some very masculine, some less so - just as there is enormous variation among non-intersex people. Of the tens of thousands of people I have met in my life so far, only a handful - the very few people for whom I had a reason to share this information: intimate partners, very good and supportive friends , close family - know I am intersex. To almost everyone else, I'm just another guy.

[@DJTheBlondeSpirit]

It's not that rare there are many of us around we just don't need to shout about it

[@claudia-Silva]

​@@metaldemort2% is very rare.

[@Dark_Aeon]

Gender dysphoria is a real disorder and it actually is statistically more common in intersex people (often before the intersex diagnosis). Our biology is a factor in experiencing dysphoria. And I'm saying all that regardless if you believe that transitioning is the right solution to dysphoria or not. I believe that in may cases it can be solved with therapy.

[@DaVinci368]

“Transitioning” is a medical impossibility therefore to ever claim that the medical mutilation that today’s cult language calls “transition” is a mistake. Today’s medical and pharmacological mutilations do not resolve the RARE cases of actual gender dysphoria and they do NOT “transition” a human to the opposite sex. Castrating men and spaying women does not change their reproductive sex. It does NOTHING to change the sex specific nuclei of every cell in the pateients body. It does not turn back the clock to modify and redirect gestational neurological development to develop sex specific instincts, pheromone sensitivities, skeletal and physiological pathways, and the anatomy, density and sex specific design of ligaments, tendons, circulatory sustems. And most noteably, today’s mutilations do not create functional opposite sex reproductive systems. Gender dysphoria was a rare disorder normally experienced primarily by autogynophelic men. Now government and adult created nefarious web sites have created and progandized a social contagion upon children and young adults. Governments and lawmakers have also imposed the cult of gender ideology on society without referendum or vote or rationale of ANY kind. And they use their manufactured mental illness to justify physically mutilating people, obliterating women’s rights and stripping parents of their rights for the care and custody of their own children.

[@Coelacanth1]

Gender dysphoria as it applies to intersex people describes the pain of having to choose one side of oneself to oppress the other to fit into a binary society. The problem with oppressing one side of oneself is that it can destroy one's mental health

[@irmar]

I resent the dismissing equation of people against the vaccine with those saying tha trans women are women or flat earthers or whatever.

[@redlady935]

Yes, it's a completely different issue. Many of so-called 'anti-vax' concerns have been now been found to be valid and even mainstream politicians have admitted that. Gender has nothing to do with vaccines so she's weakened her point by bringing that in

[@brianpark8758]

Why? There is so much nonsense about vaccines & the covid19 vaccine, that it should be categorised alongside flat Earth etc. So many people that I`ve spoken to, including my own son (who got covid 3 times) I`ve always asked them if they`ve ever caught the covid19 virus & 9/10 the answer is, "yes, it was awful but I still won`t get vaccinated!" It`s usually down to "research" they`ve done, which consists of a few Google searches & watched a few KZbin videos. The poet Alexander Pope once said, "a little learning is a dangerous thing." This is what he meant by that, & it`s the reason why we should listen to the experts & take on board their consensus.

[@darz_k.]

She has zero credibility after spewing such a vacuous comment.

[@felicityartemis8621]

agree.... In fact it's more of an accurate analogy to say that pro-vexx (sic) mandate people are a cult much like the trans-ideologists as both demonize and harass those who think differently.

[@meckerhesseausfrankfurt4019]

Why? Please expound on what exactly irks you.

[@damedianadupree462]

intersex is not a slur. It's I in LGBTQIA+. Nonbinary is not saying that people are intersex. NB is about gender not sex. They are conflating gender and sex here. NB and intersex people know they are differrent. Plenty of examples throughout history and still do this day of a range of gender spectrums. Gender is between the ears, sex is between the legs. They are not the same Joyce also suggests people think they are the same.

[@Grendelnz]

yeah thats what noted pedo John Money came up with, but its crap. Sex and Gender are the same word and one is the more polite one. thats it, they are exactly the same word, and mean the same thing and always did, right up until Money decided to change things.

[@lumiao1685]

I would like to hear from some intersex people or people who don't like that term but with the condition to hear what they think

[@AlbertPaysonTerhune]

Generally they use the IS term and dislike the DSD nonsense. (And the DSD people dislike DSD too, because the misinformation on the street is that DSD is the new term for intersex, which it is not.) Any intersex people conversing here are probably not going to discuss themselves in this forum; they'd prefer someplace like r/intersex at Reddit, where anonymity is the order of the day.

[@metaldemort]

Sorry, I'm an intersex person and I'm proud to use this term. By the way, being intersex is not a "condition": an intersex person is a person who has had their sexed body pathologised and dismissed for being deemed atypical, non conforming to gendered expectations about "sex".

[@lumiao1685]

@@metaldemort thanks for your response and your correction.

[@metaldemort]

@@lumiao1685 you're welcome 🙂 If you want to learn more, you may check the website of Interact, an US based intersex association, or any of the OII - International Intersex Organisation.

[@claudia-Silva]

​​@@metaldemortOf course it is a "condition"!

[@timmy18135]

Do chickens cry?

[@Lu6771]

👍

[@m.p.6039]

Why is Ellen Page in the thumbnail?

[@cdynes385]

It's now Elliot Page. Since they transitioned,They have been spreading misinformation on intersex and gender etc..

[@jibberism9910]

My arguments against both the vaccine and the covid policies are in fact sound, and fact-based. They also did not ever infringe on anyone else's rights. Major disqualifier to even bring that up, unfortunately.

[@darz_k.]

I'm with you on that. I commented about it just now; though I'm not sure if it will get through! Fairly suspicious to drop that in there eh? It's hard to believe these 'intellectuals' actually take the stance of name calling in such matters.

[@xavevoncroy]

I think this is a wrong angle to the debate. There is a difference between biological sex and social genre. The latter being a social construct, either in the old traditional "patriarcal" paradigm, or in the new "woke" gender-fluid one. I believe that each individual tend to identify to what the society says to be the norm. Women and men tend to be feminine and masculine in different ways if they live in a culture or another. And if the culture becomes gender-fluid, the same principle will occur, men will tend to be "gender-fluid" not because gender doesn't exist, but because it's become the new version of the male social gender in society (or at least in some parts of the society). And same goes with women. The only common mistake that "woke" culture does, is to believe that they got rid of societal pressures and became free, and found their true "natural" identity, outside of any construct. On the contrary, they just have switched from an old social construct to another one that suits them more. That's kind of fun to think that they have themselves made their point of gender being nothing but a social construct, by creating the same social mechanism all over again. But apart from this, there is nothing wrong in redefining the cultural genders for modern times. And it seems irrelevant to me to invalidate this new social construct on the basis that those new social categories are not aligned with the biological categories.

[@Mrs_xixi]

I think all of you are talking about gender roles. That I can understand but gender in it self is not a social construct. Gender roles are but not entirely.

[@xavevoncroy]

@@Mrs_xixi it depends on what meaning you put behind "gender role". If by that you only mean how to split the tasks, who will have a career and who takes care of the kids (to keep it very simple), then I disagree, the social gender is a lot more than that, it's also how you feel that the society perceive you. What qualities we consider to be feminine or masculine, how do you display yourself according to your gender, your clothes, your make-up.... The fact that "a man doesn't cry" is not a role, but it's a cultural construct (since it's not universal, only occidental), therefore a social gender. The fact that a man doesn't wear a skirt and a girl doesn't curse (I know it's a very very old school example, but I'm sure you heard it at least once from your grandmother), those all contribute to social genders. This is far more than just the social role, this is how a human individual adapts to the group. And if your society tells you that there is only two genders, one of which wears only black dresses and another who wears only yellow clothes, for example, then the people raised in this society will tend to fit in those gender constructs. And if you live in a society in which there is a spectrum of gender, then the people will define themselves according to this spectrum. I think the discussions about non-binary genders revolve around this: not the biological gender, not the social role (since the role of both traditional genders tend to be more and more identical), but the social gender in general, therefore the social construct.

[@xavevoncroy]

PS. It doesn't mean that every transgender person is the result of this social construct. Only that even if you always had people who felt misfits in those genders and who preferred to be assigned to the other one, I believe that now they are outnumbered by people who live in this new gender-fluid culture, and who identify themselves as non-cisgender, not because they feel they don't fit in the social scheme, but on the contrary because they fit very very well. Sorry, it's a long answer, I hope this makes sense....

[@DaVinci368]

Maybe I am misunderstanding your point. To that end, here is my response to your comment. The absurd iseologigal premise that one’s sex is determined by how one “feels” in the moment is not a benign belief. The embrace of today’s gender ideology has lead to the obliteration of women’s sex based rights and the permanent sterilization and mutilation of tens of thousand of children across the world. A biological reality is that instincts such as maternal instinct versus paternal instincts DO exist and that they are a product of the sex differentiation that begins at conception. They are not a “social construct”. Evolution and survival of our species (and all other mammalian species) required that males and females fulfill sex specific roles in the production and rearing of their young. I concur that societies and religions have since manufactured superficial definitions of what it is to be “feminine” versus what it is to “masculine”. I also concur that many of those fabricated cultural ideas were and remain antiquated and ignorant. Preferences for colors, hobbies or toys are not divided by sex, but by personality.

[@metaldemort]

As an intersex person myself, I think this lady should just stop willfully spreading gross misinformation and consider looking for a more respectable way to make herself a living. Intersex people already have to deal with living amongst sufficiently misinformed people everyday. There is no need to add some more. What is necessary, what is common sense, is to start hearing and reading what we have to say about us and our experiences as trans and/or intersex people having to live in a patriarchal society obsessed with binarity and essentialism. What is common sense, is to start learning about us from us, from our knowledge. What is logical, is for people who are neither intersex nor trans to start learning from us what they can't have experienced and learned by themselves, and what was never taught to them because we were simply not supposed to exist. Not being supposed to exist as a gendered and sexed individual is a lived experience cis and endosex people have no idea about. What is necessary is to refuse to listen to people who try weaponize intersex people's experiences and lives against trans people. Trying to turn a vulnerabilized minority against another is beyond ugly.

[@Coelacanth1]

The folk opposed to our existence don't like the number 3

[@brimcilroy9002]

I'm intersex I love it, doesn't most ppl haha

[@Mrs_xixi]

I think all of this is about gender roles not sex - gender. From what I can understand gender in it self is not a social construct. Gender roles can be, but not entirely. If you want to be more masculine in your gender role by all means- present your self more masculine.

[@zgobermn6895]

Excellent. But tone down on the Dawkins hero worship. The guy's good in his lab, but when he ventures outside his expertise he makes terrible blunders. His views are also now challenge by scientists such as Dennis Noble et al.

[@Woke_Invaders]

He's a wannabe philosopher with zero intellectual value.

[@williamhornabrook8081]

Intersex gets brought into this as a refutation of overly simplistic sloganeering from the gender critical side of the debate. You can't argue that sex and gender are simple binaries if people with sex chromosome abnormalities exist. "intersex people are actually always in one of the two camps" is entirely a matter of categorisation and nomenclature. She doesn't just get to declare it so. I think this argument does not progress the debate at all. In fact, what Helen is doing is just as reductive as saying "trans women are women" in isolation.

[@Coelacanth1]

Except for those of us who refuse to destroy one side of ourselves to fit into what we are not, to prefer societalnisolation in order to be ourselves.

[@Nomad-XA]

Sex and gender are a social construct - Judith Butler

[@ginaweith9475]

Biology isn’t a ‘construct’. As you’ve likely noticed, most people will not go along with your crazy notions of destabilizing reality.

[@Coelacanth1]

Destabilising reality, now there's a turn of phrase. Whose reality?

[@Woke_Invaders]

​@@Coelacanth1Extramental reality.

[@tenniskinsella7768]

Intersex really rare

[@jacquelineloveselvis]

No such thing.

[@LalaDepala_00]

​@@jacquelineloveselvisThere is. It is simply a birth defect where someone has both genitals. But it has nothing to do with trans.

[@AlbertPaysonTerhune]

A drug on the market! They're everywhere.

[@thespiritofhegel3487]

It does rather mar one's case describing Dawkins as an intellectual hero. if Dawkins is an intellectual then I'm a sex god.

[@Woke_Invaders]

Agree. Dawkins is an imb€Zile.

[@ojoudrills3916]

Thank you bert of bert and Ernie

[@amberletwory7814]

freedom of speech must not become freedom to harm

[@Justthegoodstuff-gh2xx]

People are being bullied and shamed into silence right now because of totally nasty and unfounded accusations that speaking truth = blood on their hands

[@Coelacanth1]

One man's truth is another man's lie, for what we believe to be true depends upon what we believe.

[@apocalypse12345]

I'm true trans woman and I like this woman 😅

[@jacquelineloveselvis]

You are a man who dresses as a woman. There is no such thing as trans woman.

[@Justthegoodstuff-gh2xx]

Are ''trans women" a "type" of woman? Have you got the word "female" applied to your legal documents? Do you bypass women and girls sex based rights and services? I'm happy for ppl to argue for "gender" but if it is different from sex why do we use the same words? And why are sex based rights lost?

[@Keurgui1]

@@Justthegoodstuff-gh2xxThe way I think of it is that trans women are women in the same way Step Siblings are siblings.

[@biancawilloughby9980]

There are intersex people who are also trans.

[@m_d1905]

It isn't beyond belief that someone born with ambiguous genitalia could be confused as to which sex they are. Gender and sex are inextricably linked. Perhaps for these intersex "trans" have some unknown hormone issues which may be responsible for the intersex condition. Trans also means across, if gender is a construct then trans is completely unnecessary.

[@sueregan2782]

Generally, intersex has male chromosomes, but cannot process testosterone, so no, they cannot be trans. Usually they end up growing up with female appearance, but cannot reproduce.

[@AlbertPaysonTerhune]

All too commonly. Which is why the GC line that "intersex want nothing to do with transsexuals" is demonstrably preposterous.

[@cathygrandstaff1957]

Mostly because society is intolerant and forces them to transition if they don’t fit conservative definitions of how their sex should look. But then the trans movement is general is a socially conservative movement.

[@lizd2943]

Yes, which is why social conservatives are such big supporters of trans people and never hesitate to support trans rights legislation. FYI being trans has nothing to do with gender norms or gender roles. @@cathygrandstaff1957

[@99man]

Dunning-Kruger effect. 3:43

[@psyKater2000]

I already unsubscribed from andrew gold because his channel started to be flooded with this dirbble, but I still get this cr#*'p recommended on youtube now. when will it stop

[@wckd4u]

Click the three dots of a video on your reccommended page and select do not recommend this channel to me

[@SmilingAzaleaFlower-uh9wi]

You can just block the channel...

[@psyKater2000]

I did unsubscribe from "Andrew Gold" but this seems to be a new channel. In any case, I think it is fixed now. I am also not against open discourse, just the aggressive hateful onesidedness of the debate here is super annoying for anyone who discovers themselves somewhere on the spectrum and just has to find a way of dealing with it in the face of all these -sorry- nutcases who don't know what the hell it is they are talking about.

[@SmilingAzaleaFlower-uh9wi]

@@psyKater2000 why are you here explaining anything.. block and go.

[@psyKater2000]

I feel like blocking is such a terrible thing to do, but I have no choice in this case. In any case --- bye! take care.

[@Phoneybeetlemaniacxs]

A couple of questions one trans woemn make up 0.1 of the worlds popular to put that in to facts for you that's the population of a small island. Secondly doctors you know whoa rent captured or anythis stuff have proven this, you cant say you can dismiss them then youa re like a flat earther I'm sorry I'm not a dentist i don't know anything about teeth you need to be a doctor to talk about this realistically no on says they re female they are the right gender why is this hard

[@Coelacanth1]

So if trans women make up 0.1% of society why are the 99.9% of society so damned scared of them?

[@pencilpauli9442]

Helen Joyce: "Joyce moved to England at age 16 to attend musical theatre college, but dropped out after two years. In 1987, she enrolled at Trinity College, Dublin, where she was elected a Scholar in 1989,[8] and received a BA in mathematics in 1991. She next completed Part III of the Mathematical Tripos with distinction at the University of Cambridge, earning a scholarship from the British Council and a PhD place at University College London. She got a PhD in geometric measure theory at University College London (1995) " Joyce is a journalist for the right leaning Economist magazine. So what makes Joyce qualified to talk about the trans experience? Despite her high standard of education and intelligence, she made a false equivalency between trans rights activists and climate change deniers. That is disingenuous, and feeds the transphobes to discriminate, and given her intelligence, I have to conclude that such a statement was made in bad faith. If not, she isn't very bright, despite her PhD in geometric measure theory. Even if she is correct about there being no scientific truth about a spectrum of sexual morphology, that does not in any way invalidate the trans experience. So we have another middle class cis white woman telling people their gender identity is wrong based on misinformation. There are scientists who say there is a spectrum, and since Joyce is not a scientist but a right wing ideologue with an agenda to discredit a minority, I'll go with the science. Because Joyce is a liar when she says the science is against trans identity. If you don't believe me, Google "spectrum of sexual morphology" Shame on you Joyce for using your platform to spread harmful misinformation.

[@sharonmontano4924]

Go away

[@pencilpauli9442]

@@sharonmontano4924 No.

[@SmilingAzaleaFlower-uh9wi]

​@@pencilpauli9442 This stuff isn't for you, it's for people who are still able to asses people's arguments on their merits. You can stick to judging people based on your perception of their identities, and we'll stick to judging them on their character and ideas.

[@pencilpauli9442]

​@@SmilingAzaleaFlower-uh9wi "This stuff isn't for you, it's for people who are still able to asses people's arguments on their merits." hahaha oh the sweet, sweet irony! So wonderfully precious! FYI, a critique of someone making false statements to harm a marginalised group is not a judgement. Isn't there something in the Bible about not bearing false witness, and something else about being most excellent unto each other? Joyce made a statement that is FACTUALLY incorrect. So it is rather yourself who is unable to assess people's arguments on their merits. Maybe you should heed your own advice?

[@jacquelineloveselvis]

2 sexes, male and female.

[@TFlint_]

I have a strange attraction to Helen. I bet she was well fit in her 30s.

[@AlbertPaysonTerhune]

Very good looking in her 30s and 40s. You can find old pix of her online from when she worked for a maths magazine and then the Economist.

[@damedianadupree462]

intersex is not a slur. It's I in LGBTQIA+. Nonbinary is not saying that people are intersex. NB is about gender not sex. They are conflating gender and sex here. NB and intersex people know they are differrent. Plenty of examples throughout history and still do this day of a range of gender spectrums. Gender is between the ears, sex is between the legs. They are not the same Joyce also suggests people think they are the same.