Reality vs. Trans Ideology | Peter Boghossian & Helen Joyce

[@drpeterboghossian]

Enjoying this conversation? Make sure you pick up Helen's book: www.amazon.com/Trans-Sunday-Bestseller-Helen-Joyce/dp/0861543726/

[@charlesmartel8023]

They say genitals don’t decide a baby’s sex or gender at birth, but the first thing they want to do is cut the genitals off of children. If it doesn’t matter at birth why does it matter so much later that children are actually getting mutilated. Insanity and Evil. And yes Evil does exist, because of Free Will. Otherwise we would be just preprogrammed robots.

[@zendogbreath]

thank you. now apply this to vaccine mandates. ukraine war neocons. all fraudulent woke issues of the day.

[@imacmill]

Ahhh, it's a book advertisement! Now it makes sense. Another grifter fishing in the frightened guppies. JP Patches is proud of this woman.

[@zendogbreath]

@@imacmill calling people names and avoiding dealing with the issues raised. so strong and persuasive. go back to censoring dissent. perhaps you can build consensus for your beliefs that way again.

[@imacmill]

@@zendogbreath LOL. You people aren't capable of having a rational discussion about anything. You're all frightened little children that glom on to a host of cultish personalities to tell you that your fears are founded, all while they make big bucks off you. So go buy her book, dopie, and Jordon Peterson's books, and vote Trump while donating to his legal defense. The more money you give, the more likely it is they'll save you from the horrors of the world. Or, more likely, goad you into dragging the country down into a totalitarian, fascist shithole.

[@pixiwix]

I'm a biological anthropologist/bioarchaeologist (paleontologists study dinosaurs, anthropologists/archaeologists study humans and human ancestors) and I have quite literally built my entire career around a specialism in identifying biological sex from osteological remains (bones). This is almost always done visually and with measurements, and approaches 100% accuracy depending on the state of degradation and bone in question. It is rare to determine sex through biomolecular means (ie, dna, etc) because this process is both expensive and destructive to the specimen. I can assure you...as a general rule... It is very easy to tell the difference between male and female skeletons. My research focuses on evidence for females participating in physically violent activities in the human past, so I do believe that (reproductive roles aside) the functions of men and women in a given society are based largely on the rules of said society (as well as any individual physical and sexed biological limitations). To say that there are more than two sexes or that a person is able to change their biological sex is simply a popular modern mythology with zero backing in scientific reality.

[@ChimpingBulldog]

I wish you good luck with your career in this era.

[@pixiwix]

@@ChimpingBulldog Thank you for the well wishes - it is a challenge, for sure. Thankfully, I have found ways to continue my research without overly relying on outside grant funding to support it. I do try to keep a low profile and not ruffle feathers, however, preferring to let the facts/data speak for itself. I do my best not to let political or social sentiments influence or color my work and I think this keeps me from being targeted by certain elements of society (thus far at least, fingers crossed that it remains that way going forward).

[@jlm3124]

When I went to physio school, we all had to have a skeleton. The first thing we did was identify whether it was a man or a woman.

[@LibertyOverDeath-27]

​​@@pixiwixThe way it's going, I'm afraid you won't be able to fly under the radar for long. I think at some point, everyone is going to be forced to pick a side and contest the opposing side. To me, it's an easy choice. I'm committed to THE TRUTH and objective reality, whether I find it personally comforting or not. Perhaps just as important, I'm a father of two young girls. I don't want them to be infected by this poisonous ideology and I don't want their future riddled with the social traps associated with the trans cult. I will gladly take on this fight for them so it doesn't become their fight when they're older.

[@manymoonsahead]

Can I ask you if you'd still be able to tell the sex of a skeleton if a biological female went on puberty blockers and took testosterone for a few years? Would the disruption of her puberty and taking of hormones make her bones appear male? And vice versa?

[@edm2189]

Helen’s comment at the end about the parents who have harmed their children irrevocably is spot on. It’s truly tragic

[@fredjimbob2962]

While I agree with her sentiment that most of these people will be do everything they can to maintain that what they did was right, there are some that will admit they made a mistake, especially those whose child may have subsequently detransitioned. e.g. there's a video on youtube called "I Transitioned My Child - I Regret It"

[@hoggst1985]

Yes, based on my experience talking with parents that drugged their little boys with ritalin and other "ADHD" drugs, most will double down.

[@tellytighe]

Like women who’ve had abortions can Never admit they killed their child.

[@consciouscrypto3090]

I think this is why when you start engaging in debate about this topic someone always wants to identify at the outset as the parent of a trans child. They think that means ppl will walk on eggshells and be unwilling to say what needs saying. Little do they know I'm not that polite.

[@AgentMucha]

Helen is phenomenal

[@haircutdeluxe]

Her episode was censored because of their discussion about autogynephilia and the prevalence of sexual paraphilia in the population of trans women. That’s strictly forbidden to talk about, because the core truth of the ideology is that a male fetishist is just as much a woman as your dear old grandmother, and because that identity is self described it isn’t falsifiable. They believe AGPs are women, and gender dysphoria is not required. This idea is so bizarre that any normal person would resist, so it has to be concealed at any cost.

[@TallisKeeton]

Who are AGP?

[@danteortega6510]

@@TallisKeetonit’s the autogynephillia term op used in their comment. It means to be a man who is sexually aroused at the thought of them being/appearing as a woman. As for paraphillia it’s definition is the have se*ual desires that are characterized as abnormal and often include extreme/dangerous activities

[@TallisKeeton]

@@danteortega6510 I knew what autogynephilia means I just didnt know this short term AGP in English as I m not English speaker, thanks a lot :)

[@danteortega6510]

@@TallisKeeton no problem!

[@CanwegetSubscriberswithn-cu2it]

AGP is Accelerated Graphics Port. Precursor of. PCI Express Change my mind.

[@jumblyman]

Every few months Helen Joyce comes back penetrating new insights into the sorry phenomenon of Gender Ideology. She’s out there cutting a trail through the forest for the rest of us to follow. Brilliant woman.

[@AmyTee12]

The culture-bound syndrome insight is the one that floored me this time (Peter, too, apparently). Helen is a treasure.

[@samij6071]

She's fantastic - I love her.

[@TacticalGamingFool]

Nominalnaomi would wipe the floor with this hateful loser

[@sinesaii]

What ever happened to the gender/sex difference idea? Is that wrong now? Now is there no gender, and only sex exists?

[@user-rx2if3oi8n]

@@jumblyman She likes to penetrate ?

[@hankracette]

Ms. Joyce's book _Trans: When Ideology Meets Reality_ is superb. I always enjoy her clarity, honesty, and bravery. Excellent choice, Peter.

[@Lilleybugglane]

It's the next book on my nightstand to read!!! 🇺🇸

[@tajdvl-advocate6113]

Jordan Peterson talked to her first and was canceled by KZbin for it. You’re next Peter if you’re not careful, a fact that, based on your struggle with this conversation, you’re clearly aware of.

[@XKenny77]

@@tajdvl-advocate6113 It's hard to guess what might have come up on the JP episode that she hasn't said in a dozen other interviews. If you search for her on KZbin, you can even find the incident that all the TRAs claim prove she wants to exterminate them all. That's never been taken down.

[@user-sm7pm1df3e]

Yes, I just finished it. She’s brilliant.

[@Phoneybeetlemaniacxs]

She’s an idiot she doesn’t talk about how it’s been around fir wins. She has promoted the anti semitic

[@russellsharpe288]

You can't be on the right side of history if you're on the wrong side of reality. Because reality always wins.

[@reapthewhirlwind4166]

We can deny reality but we cannot deny the consequences of denying reality

[@triom9128]

A fantastic read.

[@LibertyOverDeath-27]

💯 I keep bringing up a similar point. You can't win a fight against your own biology and against nature. It's a losing battle that you'll suffer the consequences for whether you want to or not. Playing Frankenstein with nature is only going to lead to your self-destruction.

[@johannjohann6523]

Except so often the "winners" have a tendency to "re-write" history, casting a new, if false reality. In order to protect the guilty, and further their agenda. All because "we can't handle the truth" nonesense. But you are correct. Changing the narrative doesn't change the reality, it just sweeps it under the rug.

[@keep-ukraine-free]

Another way to say it is that evidence comes from reality. Evidence is defined as a specific example/proof, from reality. This is why good science is always "reality based" (empirical, which means "coming from reality/evidence"). "Trans women" (with pen!ses) tend to be very angry & threatening. They have for years threatened scientists doing research on "gender" & "trans", mostly because their research often disproved "gender". Early properly-conducted research looking at "gender" nearly always found it to be false (untrue, non-existent). So violent trans activists got those scientists fired or their careers destroyed. Scientists soon stopped studying "gender" & "trans". The violent trans people must be stopped. They attack & harm anyone they disagree with. They favor violence. Today there is no good strong science on it because good scientists no longer work in this area (out of fear). Any "science" on the subject is from people with little understanding of statistics (a core part of science) - and current "gender research" uses techniques of pseudo-science (e.g. surveys, small sample sizes, anecdotal accounts, "self-reporting", etc.). Imagine using "self-reporting" to find criminals. Ask a child to "self-report" whether they stole the cookie or not. Will it work? Imagine asking a hypochondriac (someone who believes they have diseases) to "self-report" a diagnosis. This is the level of pseudoscience used by "gender research" people (who aren't properly trained in science).

[@MrMurph73]

Nobody is better at articulating and debating this issue than Helen Joyce

[@lavienestpasunlongfleuvetr2559]

Well said, although Andrew Doyle did a stellar job in his recent interview with Boghossian.

[@realSAPERE_AUDE]

What are the best points she makes in your view?

[@XKenny77]

@@realSAPERE_AUDE Men aren't women. That's the whole argument. Everything else is just reasons why it matters.

[@realSAPERE_AUDE]

@@XKenny77 I think what you’re trying to say is that biological males cannot be women in any sense; is that accurate?

[@XKenny77]

@@realSAPERE_AUDE I meant what I said. There is only one meaning of "man" and only one sense in which one can be a woman. They are very precisely defined terms. A man is an adult human male a woman is an adult human female. That's the ball game.

[@UKtoUSABrit]

"Lower the cost of speaking freely" Yes Helen. You nailed it. Funny how often solutions to seemingly complex problems are simple.

[@CuriousCyclist]

Helen is super brave and super smart. Huge respect to her. It's such a shame that she has been blacklisted by mainstream TV channels, especially the BBC.

[@EcosseOuiser]

All mainstream news channels in the UK are bias : BBC, ITV, C4, Sky all push the one narrative and it’s why alternative news channels should be supported such as Talk TV, GBNews, Spiked, UnHerd etc. You only have to look at who they invite onto these programmes to see where their allegiance falls

[@Martin-jd3oc]

That is the world we live in at the moment - tragically.

[@andrewwood7303]

But who could give a shit about mainstream channels if they put their ideology ahead of rational discussion?

[@liverpoolmary2860]

I don’t watch BBC anymore stopped listening to radio 4

[@imacmill]

​@@andrewwood7303_rational discussion_ What does that mean to you? What should this rational discussion lead to?

[@mariadelpilarcambrabrown4176]

This was a palate cleanser. Thank you both! I live in Spain and one lefty party has just appointed a transwomen as their LGBT and FEMINISM spokesperson and I am sick of this. The right here won't recognise domestic violence and the left won't recognise women!

[@DerLiesl]

Great, another man in a female position! The suffragettes are turning in their graves.

[@ambertico]

She said she wants to 'reduce' the amount of trans people. That's against an adults bodily autonomy. Imagine if she said the same thing about abortion.

[@flyingsquid6062]

@@ambertico reducing gender mutilation and mental illness is not against human autonomy. Get help.

[@spellboots568]

@@amberticoomg you commented this everywhere. People say that about abortion All the Time. And it’s quite reasonable. Wanting people to feel comfortable in their bodies and wanting society to accept that sex is real and gender ideology is nonsense, is not being against bodily autonomy.

[@goyim6866]

it all started because we accepted gays

[@sara-lou9825]

Helen Joyce is an absolute voice of reason in this mayhem. Fantastic conversation and a great interview 👍🏻

[@kate60]

Correct

[@drpeterboghossian]

Thank you!

[@grahamrskelly6042]

Yes more conversations where mathematicians tell us they know more then the biologists and psychiatrists who have been studying this for 90 years

[@kezzokav5905]

She knows a lot more than you mate, sit down. ​@@grahamrskelly6042

[@helenryan7141]

If you haven’t already done it, buy her book Trans. She deserves the support. We could get that book in the charts. Force mainstream media to really discuss the issues instead of repeating ‘be kind’ argument.

[@stellafalconer6715]

I live in the Scottish Highlands and although I own this book and Material Girls by Kathleen Blackstock, I thought I would do a library search online, and got the same response for both: that they had no record of either book in any Highlands Library. Very telling, especially as Scottish Government supports self-ID. It appears that Waterstones here doesn’t have Trans on their shelves either. Helen is clearly considered a dangerous person with her truth-telling. She is wonderful, and I hope many more people will interview her as the mainstream British outlets are all captured.

[@grahamrskelly6042]

@@stellafalconer6715 why do I want to listen to a mathematician comment about a biological issue with such assurance of her correctness yet when I listen to biologists who studied the matter they say Helen is wrong?

[@helmaschine1885]

​@@grahamrskelly6042What biologists? The science is clear that there are 2 sexes, with separate variations not one continous spectrum, and arguing about gender beliefs is like arguing about religion, many people believe in it but that doesn't make it real.

[@grahamrskelly6042]

@@helmaschine1885 hi, And what are your credentials? I have a Chem minor and an Anthropology degree. In your comment you straw-manned the argument and knocked it down. So I agree with you Sex is "not one continuous spectrum" Here is a actual scientist who has made a 30 min video for the public. kzbin.info/www/bejne/qavJZZuwhpqtqsksi=L2-3JgL1yo2dvCax

[@sarahwhyld5596]

​@@helmaschine1885 absolutely spot on.

[@juliej3155]

Helen is a modern hero. A wonderful role model for my daughter and every critical thinking person ❤

[@nikobellic570]

When you discover her you really wake up!

[@ambertico]

@@nikobellic570 Radical feminists aren't critical thinkers.

[@someonelastname8175]

I feel sorry for your daughter. Hate is a learned trait.

[@codinghusky5196]

@@someonelastname8175 yes. at an early age we learn to hate and even express agression towards dangerous things. Policies that allow rapists to make a simple claim in order to get into women's bathrooms and women's prisons without women being allowed so much as to KNOW these men are present, should be hated and aggressively destroyed. There are women in prisons being impregnated by men claiming to be women. Women who were put in cells with rapists and raped at night when no one could help them, and are now forced to birth their rapist's children. These women aren't even informed if the men in their cells have AIDS, and some do. There are women in hospitals, naked, put in beds next to men claiming they're women. Do you want your daughter to be put in a hospital bed next to a man without her even knowing it's a man? Wake. DaFQ. UP.

[@johnny12022]

​@@someonelastname8175 your comment is pure projection!

[@sueinraleigh3091]

The way Helen ends this with “because they have everything to lose and it’s a fight to the death as far as they’re concerned” and then takes that drink of cool water is everything. What a Queen!

[@johncassell3362]

She is sharp, best articulated explanations I've heard. She is good at not getting emotional

[@stevepowsinger733]

Of course. She’s a mathematician.

[@kezzokav5905]

​@@stevepowsinger733*was. She has had a successful career in journalism.

[@blotski]

I lived in a communist regime until my early thirties. Many people have the wrong idea about how the regime kept people under the boot. It didn't didn't send vast numbers off to the gulag or shoot them the way Stalin did in the USSR in the 30s. It was more subtle than that. If you rocked the boat by saying the wrong things they'd make sure you became a pariah. You might lose your job or you'd be blocked from promotion. People would stop talking to you because they were scared to hang out with you. You might find yourself kicked off your university course. If you were a writer your work would not be published. If you were an academic you'd become persona non grata. If you were an actor or an artist nobody would employ you or show your work. And depressingly some people would look after themselves by publicly criticising you to curry favour with the regime for themselves. I remember at university in 1977 a man who worked as a caretaker looking after the building. I later found out he'd been a philosophy lecturer who had lost his job for saying the wrong things in the 1960s. The university worked the system by employing him in the building and letting him do his work secretly. I knew somebody else who worked as a boiler engineer who started out as a university lecturer but he held the 'incorrect opinions'. And so it went on. Basically the totalitarian system worked by what would today be called 'cancelling' you. I also remember the fear. The feeling from talking to close friends that most people probably agreed with you that the system was corrupt and crazy but being scared to say anything because you could not be sure about that because so few people said anything that maybe you really were in the minority. It feels like it's happening again. If you say the wrong thing you may not end up in prison but your life will be 'cancelled' but you still have that nagging feeling that most people agree with you but are keeping quiet.

[@mirceaar7988]

The first 15 years of my life were spent in a socialist republic ran by a single communist party. The Stalinist methodology was functional up into the 1950's, in about the first decade of the soviet occupation. Later, it slowly evolved into what is spot on described above. The worst case scenario for dissent would be - if all else fails, one would end up in a psychiatric ward.

[@keeponrockin85]

Thank you for sharing! Keep sharing! The only way to combat this is through speaking the truth! God bless you for sharing 💜

[@keeponrockin85]

​@mirceaar7988 thank you for sharing! please keep sharing your story 💜 the power of telling the truth has ripple effects far and wide. Thank you again and God bless you!

[@annbell8748]

These people moved to the USA and they are one trick ponies. That is why it feels familiar. ☣️💯🔄📢

[@katyisgone]

This is exactly what is happening. I wish people would wake up

[@grothd09]

I LOVE that she’s coming out stronger than ever against this nonsense! She used to be more cautious but now she isn’t messing around. She’s right, there is no such thing as “trans”!

[@memoryhero]

I don't think that's exactly what she said - and it matters. What she said is that "trans" is a purely social confection.

[@electricfishfan]

Yes, and OP was correct anyways. “There is no such thing as trans,” is the same statement as, “there is no such thing as god.” She means what she said.

[@smokexsmoke99]

Transgender people have the same brain structures of the gender they identify as.

[@smokexsmoke99]

Also, there's nothing wrong with supporting transgender rights. Transgender women are women. Nearly all cis women support transgender rights and have no problem with them being in female spaces like changing rooms, shelters, and sports. Transgender women are not going to cause any problems for cis women.

[@mr.mclibtard5015]

​@@smokexsmoke99 What rights don't they have?

[@Zoe-yc7og]

Currently coming to the end of Helen's book -Trans on audible. She's so clear, concise and articulate. I find it absolutely ridiculous that she's been blacklisted by the main British media channels and is described as hateful. Positive intelligent role models for women are disparaged and condemned. Thank you for elevating her voice.

[@ambertico]

She said she wants to 'reduce' the amount of trans people. That's against an adults bodily autonomy. Imagine if she said the same thing about abortion.

[@Zoe-yc7og]

@@ambertico I think you're misrepresenting what Helen has said she hasn't said anything about taking away peoples bodily autonomy. I think reducing the amount of abortions is a good thing surely. With education, promoting good sexual healthcare and contraception. Same with embracing gender non-conformity, surely it's a good thing to help people to be less dysphoric about their bodies, reducing the need for invasive operations that remove healthy tissue, sterilising people and making lifelong medical patients. Because at the moment every facet of society is telling our young people that gender ideology is true. When there are many of us who don't subscribe to it and don't have a gender identity.

[@RivetCityRamsey]

Have you considered going outside?

[@Zoe-yc7og]

@@RivetCityRamsey I often do and the beauty of Audible enables other activities (even outside) to be carried out whilst listening to a book.

[@RivetCityRamsey]

@@Zoe-yc7og I doesn't seem to be working. Lol

[@lewis_hatchett]

Helen’s brother, Ed, was my captain as a professional cricketer. The critical thinking skills that he exhibited is something that is clearly a learned family skill. Helen has deeply thought, for years, about this subject and her ability to think about and describe these topics is impressive.

[@XKenny77]

Sorry. I'm Scottish. I don't know anything about cricket except snippets I've learned from listening to HJ! He captained Sussex, didn't he? Did you meet or play with any of her other brothers? It must be a bit odd for her to have this whole family of cricket royalty, quietly working at a magazine that doesn't even have bylines, and then all of a sudden she's the most controversial woman in Britain!

[@lewis_hatchett]

@@XKenny77 Yes we played for Sussex. Ed was my captain. His sisters played for Ireland too.

[@sincerityissacred5101]

"I can't believe what I don't believe". Me neither. Thank you for your work, Helen!

[@owensbama1923]

Thanks Peter. Finally, somebody interviewed a person who lives in total reality like most normal people. Very refreshing to hear.

[@simonhadley8829]

The U.S. has an emotional maturity problem which I think is at the heart of all of this. We have taught successive generations that their feelings are more important than facts and it has reached a critical mass that is now self perpetuating. Reason requires discipline, emotional control, patience, an ability to set aside one's ego in order to reach the truth.

[@ebikescrapper3925]

Look into Neoteny

[@jenniferdeaton5130]

Yes, we have infantilized at least 2 generations, possibly more!!

[@adrabruzzese7610]

All by design. Weaken the population and government can easily control the population. 2020 was an absolute test of this and most failed.

[@tristangossman8910]

I was just explaining that last night!

[@ianbruce6515]

The United States is an Adolescent culture. That is very definitive. Currently, it is still a male adolescent culture. This is changing, in a bad way. Young women, who were traditionally more mature than young males--are acting up in angry irrational male- adolescent manner.

[@corsairsofnarshaddaa]

57:03 "You get off on cross-dressing...it turns you on, and suddenly you're 'stunning and brave' for doing that? It's amazing!"

[@radubradu]

She is brilliant as always, cannot get enough of hearing her. Of course they will not debate her, they know she would take them apart in minutes.

[@clovermark39]

I wish they would. She is brilliant.

[@RenegadeContext]

#nodebate is their stance for a reason

[@Phoneybeetlemaniacxs]

I would debate here are sone questions you accept medical science when it comes to everything else apart from this why. You have in your book an anti semitic conspiracy theory is that irrationality? Your rhetoric has lead to biological women being harassed for not conforming to women physically or even expressing my is thst not immoral

[@radubradu]

@@Phoneybeetlemaniacxs all women are biological, wtf you on about?

[@RenegadeContext]

@@Phoneybeetlemaniacxs The antisemetic conspiracy theory comment shows you haven't read her book. You're talking about the three men she named as massive donors for this cause extremely wealthy men but they are not all Jewish, that is some racist bullshit someone else thought up and tacked on after without doing any research. If she were going to debate anyone it would be someone who is either high profile or well researched it won't be internet trolls who haven't done a tap of work on the matter.

[@sarahkoren7294]

I am a Critical Care Nurse Specialist. Only about 15 years ago did there start to be research into the fact that women and men react differently to medications and have many times different symptoms to the same illness. Now, with politics involved pushing the Trans agenda, I am sure that there will be no more research into this important area causing increased danger to women!

[@Capybarrrraaaa]

How does conformity to stereotypes affect reactions to medications?

[@lewreed1871]

@@Capybarrrraaaa My god you are a dick.

[@sarahkoren7294]

@MrGamermandan By not allowing research into the very real differences between women's reaction to medications from men's and their different symptoms. As long as this lie about males can turn into females is exploited and those who disagree censored, women are in real danger. It took many centuries to finally convince the Medical Establishment of the obvious. Now, to please a minority of people who choose to push an agenda which hurts women, this research will be stopped No one will fund it, because they are afraid of being Transphobic! Our internal bodies are DIFFERENT from a man's. To make room for our Reproductive Systems, the placement, and blood flow is different! A Cardiac Surgeon knows that he should not use a woman's Mammary veins in a Coronary Artery Bypass Surgery, because he can cause necrosis to her breast tissue! And YOU dare to call these stereotypes? This is just ONE example! A man is helped by Aspirin under the tongue during a MI (heart attack). For a woman it DOES NOTHING! But there is NO research on what will help a woman! This has only been known in the last 2 decades because of research, that now, because of POLITICS and appeasement, will stop!

[@at1970]

You need long no further than symptoms of an MI to see the a difference between the sexes. Of coarse there are many others.

[@grahamrskelly6042]

What a weird claim? Now that trans people are around... Because we haven't been doing research on women before we won't do research on women now. Trans people are in polling feminist and want more research into the differences in men and women...

[@scillyautomatic]

I like Joyce's take on this. There is no such thing as trans. Period. Yep. I can go with that.

[@questor55]

You have trans-identified. Adherents of the faith still have that.

[@johndutchman]

I agree. Even with the severest of mental delusion, which I don't doubt exists, where someone is convinced they are the opposite sex . they are still under a mental affliction.

[@Earthad23]

The entire ideology is a real tower of babble, incoherent propaganda communist gobbledygook.

[@mdquaglia]

Notice how the lefty ideologues shorten it to "trans". They *can't* under any circumstances allow for the possibility that transvestites exist. Nope. If you're "trans", get in line at the clinic and start your transition.

[@jonnash5196]

What does Stella OMalley and others at GENSPEC say about that ? They have a slightly softer approach

[@PhilAlumb]

"A Woman is NOT a Castrated Man....."💯💥

[@clogs4956]

Nor an emasculated one. There is a significant difference; we castrate male animals to stop them breeding, but we don’t remove their functioning penis. Eunuchs were castrati. Also: although some religions (notably the worship of Cybele and Attis) employed self-emasculation, with medical help at hand, it was a form of execution back in bad old days.

[@barbaramattson817]

EVERY FETUS IS FEMALE. THEN MUTATES INTO MALE. NO ONE IS 100% EITHER WAY. EVERY ONE IS A MATTER OF DEGREES. TO SAY THAT GOD, NATURE, INTELLIGENT DESIGN. DRAWS THE LINE AT MISMATCHED BUY ALLOWS EVERYTHING ELSE BABYS ARE BORNED WITH, IS JUST PLAIN STUPID EVIL. TELL MEEE ABOUT DYSLEXIA.

[@barbaramattson817]

YOU MAY WANT IT TOOBEE THAT WAY TWO FEED YOUR FEAR AND NEED TO HATE, BUT IT IS NOT THAT WAY. SOME PEOPLE ARE BORNED MISMATCHED. IT IS THAT SIMPLE. DARK MINDED PEOPLE WILL FADE AWAY, AS THEY ALL-WAYS DOOO. ALLOWING JUST A LITTLE BIT MORE LIGHT ON EVERYONE ELSE.

[@barbaramattson817]

YOU SAID NOTHING@@theoutsider6191

[@st.dennie1149]

@@barbaramattson817 Why do you type like you have a brain injury? You cannot transition, you're not a butterfly.

[@angelpajarillo]

Helen is just unbelievably sane , profound, cogent and utterly brilliant ! I love the way she nails the topic with such fabulous reality !

[@thomasprogli3372]

She nails it better than anbody else. She has an excellent response to every statement.

[@achipinthesugar]

“It’s the impact on other people that fucks me off”. What a woman. ❤

[@imacmill]

It's you people 'impacting' other people.

[@MFYouTube683]

@@imacmillsorry, we don‘t talk to cult members. #makePRIDEproudAGAIN #LGBdropTheT #LGBalliance

[@robn2497]

@@imacmill false

[@eventerry9093]

@@imacmill I certainly hope so, as the level of the manipulation and delusional in the trans community is becoming increasingly more than just a mental health system failure and more a ideology to exploit children.

[@smokexsmoke99]

How does adding to the number of women in a population erase others in that population? Since trans women are women, it just means there are more women in the population than there were before. But someone else’s existence does not erase mine, I still exist. I am thinking someone failed math in school.

[@chloenajera4143]

I’ve watched KZbin daily for years and I’ve followed you, Peter, on here for quite a while- Definitely a fan. This is the first comment I’ve ever made on any video ever. This is the first time I’ve been compelled to! This is the best interview I’ve ever seen and I’ve never just been in my head snapping my fingers listening to someone just spew logic and it just sound so poetic and obviously correct. Thank for you creating this and please keep it up I’m so grateful personally for your work. Commenting from anchorage alaska!

[@drpeterboghossian]

That’s very kind of you to say so. Thank you!

[@grahamrskelly6042]

Yes let's agree with someone who is not an expert and is going against the experts in three fields who have been studying this for 90 years.

[@kezzokav5905]

​@@grahamrskelly6042 You're so ignorant, you refuse to research and believe facts when they're presented to you and instead rely on logical fallacies when they're not what you want to hear, because you're emotionally invested. Boo hoo.

[@Ensignpeak]

One of the best discussions on this madness anywhere. Well done.

[@IainFrame]

Helen Joyce is a treasure. Truth bombs left right and centre.

[@-Monad-]

In person interviews are SO much better than over the internet, the back and forth is just much more conducive to getting to the bottom of things. I've been really enjoying these!

[@drpeterboghossian]

Agreed.

[@p-gilly]

Listening to Helen Joyce is always an absolute delight. She is highly intelligent, witty, and reassuringly down-to-earth. She is EXACTLY the person we need in these crazy times! Thanks so much for this interview!

[@defendliberty1289]

And most importantly: She does not mince her words.

[@antonia6059]

What I find is that people don’t actually think you can change your sex. They are just afraid of the consequences if they don’t go along with this ideology. Whenever I’ve debated somebody about This topic, there is fear in their eyes.

[@ellenmccarthy7338]

It's a cult.

[@Namast33]

Helen's last statements about parents gave me chills. She is 100% right, these parents that butchered their young child will fight to the end and will keep this social contagion alive forever.

[@ambertico]

Hardly any trans people get surgery.

[@dianekrenz6789]

Absolutely right. That is terrifying and spot on.

[@ambertico]

@@dianekrenz6789 Hardly any trans people get surgery.

[@PapaEmeritusII]

I would say most of these parents were scared with "would you rather a dead child or a trans child"

[@ZoeColcheedas-wy9zy]

TRUTH is important to us.

[@pbziegler]

When I was a therapist there was a period when suddenly people came to see me claiming to be multiple personalties. About a year later the wave was over. Several of my colleagues had the same experience

[@maryrose4712]

Interesting. Wasn't there also a period when everyone was having repressed memories?

[@shrikeofterven6006]

Whatever happened to "indigo children" ??? That was a big one among hip moms for some time.

[@dq405]

And then, of course, we had "satanic panic" that came and went as rapidly....

[@roncarlin3209]

Social contagion. Or so Mrs Knowitall tells me. She's the busybody that my true self has to co-exist with.

[@lr6477]

Epidemic of attention seeking

[@hammersmithbridge9115]

Helen is the most balanced understanding commentator on this subject of all commentators on this subject - she is firm in her opinions and articulates it so well. She runs rings round people without intending to - it is they who re stuck in the wrong circles

[@lozzaheath815]

Sharon Davies was on trigonometry few weeks back.... Very good, coming from the sport angle... 👍

[@Marcus-Spurius-Furius]

I'm a huge fan of Helen Joyce. All power to her.

[@adlernewman]

I agree with her so much it has just cheered up my whole day.

[@johndutchman]

me too !! I mean : Me also !!

[@clovermark39]

She is the best to explain about all this mess.

[@1970liam]

It was really cheering up my day too - then the last 3 minutes left me heartbroken and terrified.

[@JosephFrancisBurton]

? huh ? none of this cheered me up.

[@adlernewman]

@@JosephFrancisBurton Well, the state of trans activism is grim but at least someone is able to recognize it out loud.

[@KatAdVictoriam]

Excellent conversation. I always learn something new when I listen to Helen Joyce in a discussion. I really enjoy her insight and knowledge on this topic and the way she challenges and pushes back. I don't envy her for the battle she's taken on, but it's a worthy one. Reality is at stake when we are told to affirm delusions and are constantly gaslit.

[@clovermark39]

I think she has valuable insight and knowledge because of her mathematical background. Maths is very logical. We must back this woman to the hilt for speaking out about this for us and especially our children.

[@aq7350]

Peter, I chuckled a little every time you paused, put your head in your hand, and sighed. Very relatable! But seriously, Helen Joyce is always a pleasure to listen to. She's whip smart, on point, and absolutely fearless. Really great discussion.

[@edpistemic]

God! This woman is my absolute hero. Fearless in talking the truth despite the dangers. Keep it up, Helen!

[@Bryan833s]

As an artist, I use a book called morpho, and when you know what to look for in skeletons, the differences between men and women are incredibly obvious.

[@lamar1423]

Not only can they determine the sex of the skeleton. If it is female they can tell if the female, skeleton has given birth. They don't know if the male skeleton has impregnated anyone.

[@donnav3270]

This was incredible. Thanks for having Helen Joyce. She’s bar far my favorite speaker on this subject

[@stvbrsn]

Lol. Bar far=cross between “by far” and “bar none” ?

[@Martin-jd3oc]

If this doesn’t open people’s eyes I don’t know if anything can. Helen is masterful.

[@ambertico]

She said she wants to 'reduce' the amount of trans people. That's against an adults bodily autonomy. Imagine if she said the same thing about abortion.

[@catherinerobilliard7662]

@@ambertico you’re deliberately obfuscating the context of what she said, a common “trans” trick. She was talking about reducing people “ transitioning” through self-inflicted grievous bodily harm. At times they become suicidal after “transitioning”

[@diannedavidson]

He keeps making that same argument. Ridiculous.

[@ZehMatt]

She is great, shame on every other woman who doesn't push back on this madness.

[@deebee22130]

And man....

[@DiogenesNephew]

My views happen to align perfectly with Joyce's regarding these topics. I've been flabbergasted that people aren't having more problems with the blatantly obvious inconsistencies with the entire trans concept. It falls flat before it even gets out the damn door.

[@erikaoliver2591]

They are. They're just too afraid to say anything. I work on a team with 8 women. One of them has a child who is transitioning. My colleague was telling me all about it, and I finally said, "I can't talk to you about this. I'm fundamentally opposed to almost everything you're telling me, and I'm very concerned about the harm we're doing to children." Needless to say, she doesn't talk to me much anymore. But 4 other colleagues thanked me for saying something bc they couldn't listen anymore. Mind you, none of them had the balls to say anything.

[@XKenny77]

@@erikaoliver2591 Fear is a powerful weapon. What Helen says about the tragedy of the (truth about trans) commons is absolutely correct. If everyone spoke up then the problem would be solved, but the cost of speaking up for each individual is often impossibly high. It's a huge hurdle for us. We just have to keep going. Eventually, person by person, we may re-normalise normality.

[@memoryhero]

@@erikaoliver2591 you're a hero for doing this, as awkward as it may have been. this, and this alone, is the only way a society might hope to move beyond the religious fervor. break the spell explicitly.

[@decyattysyachpchyol]

Same. It especially confused me that so many autistics buy in. I get to some extent - I am autistic and was seriously dysphoric from 4 to 24 because I never fit in with girls but fit many stereoyypical traits of boys, was/am lesbian which made it worse as I discovered this, but until college, I was proudly non-conforming as my parents supported me and assured me that girls don't have to be girly. But the classic t narrative resonated strongly, and this seemed the only role society had for people like me and I never fit in anywhere and the activists made it sound like the only alternative to transition for dysphoric like me was self-deletion, it would be inevitable. But I never supported changing the birth cert because that's a factual record, thought there should be third spaces instead of going to the ones for the other sex, called out self id as insane and ripe for abuse, likewise called out the "you're attracted to gender not sex" notion and child transition, even social. I was of course viciously slandered, stalked, and threatened for this, socially shunned, had to move, etc. I have never been afraid to criticize sacred cows of every group I have belonged to. I accepted in early elementary school that I would be a lone wolf, subject to the rule of people who are less intelligent or independent-minded than I was at age 7. It is like the Voyager episode Bliss when 7 of 9 thought she was immune to the mental manipulation of a telepathic creature because she didn't fall for the first deception. But the only reason she didn't fall for it was because her desires diverged substantially from those of the group. When they were out of the way, it focused on her and deceived her, but a friendly alien was able to persuade her she was in fact deceived. Autistics and skeptics are like 7 of 9 there. No matter how smart or independent one is, we all can be deceived, especially if we convince ourselves we are above being deceived.

[@CC-vo7yd]

​@@decyattysyachpchyolDon't give up, I'm recently self diagnosed autistic too and I'm tired of all this gender nonsense in the autistic community in general even though I've just gotten into it. All the assigned at birth bs is ridiculous. No, we already gradually disabused people of the notion of gender roles since last few decades, thank you very much. I'd like to stop and focus on more worthy subjects. Also autistics are vulnerable to manipulation by NTs, I'm glad I got diagnosed late at 29 because I've had the life experience of giving my best trying to figure out NTs without the other clutter.

[@davidoliver9551]

“Very clever people can lie to themselves more impressively than non-clever people“ would seem to be a double edged sword. I really enjoyed the conversation!

[@ottofrinta7115]

Just 15 minutes in and my satisfaction of watching is 10/10. Damn finally someone is saying that first and foremost sex is an reproductive evolutionary strategy, THAT is it's importance. And when many people say "so what that it's a reproductive strategy, I don't care about reproduction". Life cannot exist without reproduction. Reproduction is an integral part of life. So unless you want to tell me you don't care about life and it's continuance, that's "what". Damn common sense, that is lost on so many these days.

[@joane24]

Exactly. Reality doesn't cease to exist just because you don't care about it. But somehow some people came to believe it does.

[@megaloschemos9113]

I find it interesting when people say 'reproduction is not important' and also state how amazing 'tran people are'. If the biological mechanism which created trans people is not important, how can their existence also be amazing?

[@judiheppner6981]

Helen’s point about no true trans and it being a culture bound phenomena makes so much sense. It was interesting to hear Peter’s reflection on the skeptical movement and not understanding why adherents seem completely non-skeptical when it comes to gender ideology. The 2 movements have a kind of rebellious in your face element to them, and using Haidt’s info in The Righteous mind one can see that it could be the desire to be part of a group, more so than a desire for logical and skeptical thinking, that could drive a person to embrace a belief system. Trans people continue to see themselves as oppressed even when laws, policies, education, health, government and corporations line up to support them. People like to believe they are counter-cultural even when they are just living by the beliefs and values of a different culture. My hypothesis about why certain people don’t fall into beliefs is that there is a personality element. Some people just can’t seem to handle cognitive dissonance, and are much more aware of lying to themselves. Integrity is valued over relationship, because relationship seems unreal if based on falsehood.

[@wendyhandy9065]

Yep 👍

[@Supercalifragilisticexpial-r2x]

They have a right to feel oppressed. Trump wanted to allow employers to discriminate against transpeople

[@spetsdod]

Amazing discussion. Riveting from start to finish. Thank you Helen, and Peter, for sharing this talk.

[@bowler3329]

You can not know what it feels like to be the opposite sex, no matter what your brain tells you, therefore you can never say you are in the wrong body.

[@The-Finisher]

Snake eating it’s tail.

[@irradiated_woman8016]

We ARE our bodies.

[@straight.no.chaser1708]

Christianity explicitly demonstrates that we are NOT our bodies

[@irradiated_woman8016]

@@straight.no.chaser1708 oh this is revolutionary, fantastical, that proof will change the world! What is your empirical evidence?!

[@kezp8114]

@@straight.no.chaser1708 nobody cares what Christianity has to say about the subject 🤣

[@Melanie_Star]

Thank you so much, Peter, for continuing to bring your audience these highly interesting conversations. It shouldn't be brave, but here on KZbin & in this day & age it obviously is. It's brave because engaging in such discussions is something most people aren't willing to do anymore. Much respect sent from England 🇬🇧

[@drpeterboghossian]

Thank you so much. I’m delighted you’re enjoying these. We have a lot of terrific episodes that we’ll be releasing over the next months!!

[@kimberlysweidy2670]

"I cannot bear people talking bullshit." Best Line Ever! You just summed up my entire life in a single sentence. I am a 62 year old woman. In elementary school, my classmate, Lisa Onchi, gave me a little Christmas present that was a keychain. On that keychain was a little "plaque" with a picture of Lucy from Peanuts carrying a picket sign that said, "Help Stamp Out Things That Need Stamping Out." I felt as though Lisa literally peered into my soul...in elementary school.

[@drpeterboghossian]

😊

[@Gumbatron01]

I think a counter to the "It's kind to go along with their 'gender identity'" would be "It's extremely unkind to coerce people's speech". There's nothing kind about trans ideology, they are also very intolerant.

[@TommyGunz327]

I refuse to live a lie. I will not play along with their mental illness

[@baconsarny-geddon8298]

100%. Trans ideology is TOTALLY focused on "empathy" and "tolerance"... to the extent that they demand that EVERYONE ELSE must be eternally "empathetic" and "tolerant" TOWARDS THEM... But the ideology will NEVER require IT'S OWN ADHERENTS to be empathetic and/or tolerant to OTHERS- It demands the exact opposite, in fact... Trans activists will NEVER have a scenario where empathy for women and girls, or for children in general, requires putting the rights and safety of the 50% of the population who are female, ahead of "validating" the 0.5% who self-ID as trans... In every single case, """empathy""" means prioritizing the all-important "validation" of 0.5% of men, ahead of the basic safety and rights, of 100% of women/girls ....

[@Elzie-Nou]

See I really think it’s extremely cruel to indulge in a fantasy that will never turn out the way the person wishes for. It’s leading people down the garden path and responsible people would want to talk honestly about this so as not to prolong the agony in colluding in the lie.

[@ChristianToth-uv1nv]

yeah they are intolerant so you think you are going to counter them? it doesn't matter what you say these people are insane.

[@lc86_65]

I just always compare it to anorexia patients. It is not kind to affirm their delusion that they are fat because they aren't, and they will die if we enforce it. Same thing with a schizophrenic patient who thinks the voices in their head are real... we do not affirm it because it's not. There is no difference between these cases and people who claim to be trans in my opinion. There are mental health issues at play that need to be addressed and dealt with, first and foremost. That is the kind approach!

[@tadhgpheaitwillie]

Helen Joyce is a phenomenon. The "trans" ideologues, in their wildest nightmares, could never have imagined that they would encounter an opponent as intelligent, as assured, as articulate, and as womanly as her. She is the complete woman.

[@LL-jt1xt]

Which is why they try & shut her down/out.

[@electricfishfan]

It’s important not to assert that someone can be ‘more their sex’ than fellow members of their sex, since that refers to attitudes which fostered tran/ssexualism, but you’re correct that Helen is a remarkable woman!

[@ambertico]

She said she wants to 'reduce' the amount of trans people. That's against an adults bodily autonomy. Imagine if she said the same thing about abortion.

[@tadhgpheaitwillie]

@@ambertico This discussion was entirely about the "trans" issue. What has abortion got to do wigh it? And yes, I think it would be a very good outcome if there were to be a reduction in cases of transgenderism, the exact same as it would be a good thing to see a reduction in other types of mental illness such as anorexia, schizophrenia, etc.. I don't see the problem with that at all.

[@diannedavidson]

Umm. I'd like to reduce the number of abortions, too.

[@t.s.3708]

Helen speaks truth and common sense but what is truly tragic is that we call her "brave" because so few people speak 100% the truth anymore.

[@ambertico]

She said she wants to 'reduce' the amount of trans people. That's against an adults bodily autonomy. Imagine if she said the same thing about abortion.

[@catherinerobilliard7662]

⁠ you’re deliberately obfuscating the context of what she said, a common “trans” trick. She was talking about stopping harm to people caused by an erroneous belief bodily mutilation can change sex. We are our sex in every cell in our body; you would have to change your DNA

[@vthompson947]

​@@amberticoso you oppose treatment for mental illness?

[@terrydunnett]

Thank you Helen Joyce for your courage to speak your mind knowing the consequences of those wanting to argue a losing fight. The general public are no longer willing to have there nose pushed into the great lie. It is wonderful that no matter what KZbin do, Twitter will show you on the internet, so I will watch your recent chat with Jordan Peterson. The fighting Irish come to the rescue. Also thanks to Peter for sharing your platform and open mind.

[@niallfitzpatrick6568]

As a fellow Dubliner and also a Trinity College Dublin graduate, I'm very proud of Helen Joyce. As an ex-athlete I can definitely state that women will lose college scholarships to university (mainly the US as Ireland is too small) and any so called "feminist" who backs this frankly totally ludicrous story must actually hate women. In the past many women of all types have called me a misogynist Even if i were, the world truly has gone mad if a so called "misogynist" is standing up for women's rights! As for being on the "wrong side of history" a lot of German scientists actually backed the Nazi "science" of race theory and look at how that turned out. If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck guess what...it IS a duck!!!! Josef Gobbels said "If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it". He was an evil bastard but a brilliant propagandist. Obviously this movement is playing from ole Josef's handbook...

[@ambertico]

She said she wants to 'reduce' the amount of trans people. That's against an adults bodily autonomy. Imagine if she said the same thing about abortion.

[@catherinerobilliard7662]

@@ambertico you’re deliberately obfuscating the context of what she said, a common “trans” trick. She was talking about reducing people “transitioning” through self-inflicted grievous bodily harm.

[@spellboots568]

It’s ironic they call us Nazis when they are authoritarian, unscientific, heavy on censorship and engage in mutilating mentally ill people, like the Nazis.

[@thewickedv3737]

​@@catherinerobilliard7662I was literally about to comment the same thing to this individual in another comment, but I see you beat me to it! I've watched that video. Whether the previous commenter is purposefully misconstruing her argument is uncertain to me, but I really don't see how anyone who has ACTUALLY listened to her comment, in its entirety, could only have that as their takeaway. 🫠

[@ElvenMoth]

Pretty sure that's a bot, I've seen the same comment in numerous threads.

[@cl4998]

This woman couldn't of delivered her message more perfectly. I agree with her in every way.

[@BelissaCohen]

I am so glad that you and HJ discussed that NO ONE IS "trans," not one person ever, no matter how well they might "pass" as the opposite sex. This idea that a person is "true trans" is amost always said of a lesbian or a male homosexual (which is deeply homophobic, btw), and almost never of a heterosexual male, for example, who claims to be or has medicalized to be perceived as the opposite sex. Please discuss this POV with more of us -- including many of us in the #LGBdroptheT movement -- who are fighting the homophobic lie that SOME PEOPLE really are "true trans" that is being sold to vulnerable people in order that medical quacks can profit.

[@4651adri]

This comment is my safe place ❤

[@sarahg2653]

Interesting. I have yet to listen to the video, but I still work under the assumption that gender dysphoria exists and that's what constitutes a "true" trans person. I'm excited to see how Helen may challenge my assumption.

[@lewreed1871]

@@sarahg2653 May I? Yes, gender dysphoria exists, but as Helen said at the outset, it's a culture-bound syndrome. Being dysphoric does not make one a member of the opposite sex in any true sense.

[@zxyatiywariii8]

@lewreed1871 I agree it doesn't actually make anyone a member of the opposite sex, but I think gender dysphoria is a real -- but extremely rare -- congenital issue. I think Blaire White is a true trans woman, and I know if I walked into a public bathroom and I saw Blaire, I wouldn't feel weird; but if I walked into a bathroom and I saw Buck Angel, I'd think -- yikes, why is a man in here??? (I wouldn't recognize either of them, because I have prosopagnosia, "face blindness". But Blaire passes as a woman, and Buck passes as a man.) However, a lot of the so-called "trans rights activists" are narcissistic AGPs who have discovered a way to gain access to spaces where they absolutely do NOT have any right to be, and who take delight in making women and children feel threatened. Fortunately I've never had an AGP walk into the women's bathroom when I was in there. But I currently live in state where we can legally carry a weapon; and one of my coworkers was in a Target bathroom a few years ago, when an AGP came in and started to peek over the top of the divider. She grabbed her gun, and the instant he saw it, he yelped and let go of the divider and she heard a splash, like his foot had slipped into the toilet, and he ran out. 🤣

[@sarahg2653]

@@zxyatiywariii8 in reference to gender dysphoria and trans, that's precisely what I l believe, too. And I also agree about Blaire and Buck

[@stephenthinksalot641]

Thank you. May sanity prevail. Great work. Protecting children is the responsibility of all adults. God bless. Peace and Love

[@STARdustPixi]

As a new mother I go to a breastfeeding support group. Recently a woman joined who is raising her baby boy ‘gender neutral’. I can see that it is entirely driven by terminology which makes the mother feel she is being progressive and allowing her child to choose who they are. At what point does this linguistic approach become deterministic, putting ideologies into the infant where their identity as their born sex is questionable. Like Helen states, this is a true case of mind body dualism. I find it even more curious as the mother has done the most female thing she can do, give birth and breastfeed her child, a biologically based ability, yet she feels it would be wrong to allow her son to be a male in the true sense of his biology?

[@LoudMinded]

Gender neutral is nonsense. We should give equal opportunities to our kids regardless of their sex - choice of toys, clothes, colours, activities and the way we speak to them (not applauding a rude boy or punishing a girl who is not polite and submissive). Other than that what is 'gender neutral'? Confusing kids with unclear language?

[@Wunder_Dog]

@@LoudMinded What you are describing is exactly what gender neutral means (At least my definition and every time I have heard it used). Most people tend to agree that there is some sort of influence that can be made to a child. If for a boy you only push blue and cars then you are not giving the choice. The point of gender neutral is to say the parent is going to make an effort to not push the socially norms of gender; toys, colors, clothes and activities to allow the child to pick what they like. It is not saying that the child is not a Boy or Girl but a boy can play with dolls if they choose to and a girl can play with a car while dress in blue. Having both a girl and boy with an effort to not push certain gender roles to them they have ended up gravitating to those norms and are cisgender. I am a believer that gender is both biological and social.

[@LoudMinded]

@@Wunder_Dog We are also not alone in raising them, my kid gets some backwards stereotypical ideas from cartoons and questions me when I say something is not only for girls/boys :) It's hard to say if it's biology or the omnipresent unicorn vs dinosaur message in every store, magazine, TV... As for the new meaning of 'gender neutral', I've seen parents that don't tell their kids what sex they are, allowing them to choose to be a girl or a boy themselves. That is one of the confusing and illogical aspects I don't understand.

[@Wunder_Dog]

@@LoudMinded I agree that strange because we still live in a society/culture that they have to live in and like it or not there norms of a society and I could see that could cause problems but haven't put much thought into either. We have had the same thing when my daughter will say pink is only for girls or long hair or ear rings, etc. So I am familiar with the conversation that something is not only for boys or girls.

[@seattlewomanspeaks4912]

It is very important for children to know the parts of their bodies, including sexual anatomy, early on, and to know what a boy is and what a girl is. This denying children basic information is just awful for them.

[@eznight25]

If an anorexic female claimed that she was fat, and said that she knew that she was fat at an early age, and that she has felt fat for as long as she can remember, then should society affirm her that she is fat, and force doctors to give her Liposuction ? Or would you recognize that she has a mental illness and lovingly help her to get the psychological help that she clearly needs ?

[@Godlovesallmen]

Of course, you are correct. The problem is that you are using a lost concept called "reason." Indoctrination has removed reason from the mind of this generation. People, largely liberals, have embraced "identity politics." "Community think." They grab on to the idea that everyone exists within a group that has been oppressed. An oppressed person requires an oppressor Once that is established, the oppressed can use the oppressor as an excuse for all their failings.

[@martinashford3107]

Good, and close analogy. It highlights a mental illness issue.

[@_HimToo]

I've been using this exact example, along side others like schizophrenic delusions, etc, for the longest time. It's insane to me that anyone could consider this issue without, at some point, looking at it from this angle. It's the most obvious way to look at it rationally, right!?!

[@liamg88]

GD is, factually speaking, a mental illness. In psychological literature, it has been abundantly researched as such. Very often goes hand-in-hand with autism (that is, a much higher % of GD individuals are also autistic than that of the rest of the population), and/or with a difficult upbringing/home situation. A good example of how it might go with autism: autistic girl does not feel she fits in with other girls. Doesn't have the same interests, etc. Prefers to hang around with boys. Therefore identifies more with them/sees herself as more like them. Ergo she feels more like a boy than a girl; ergo she is a boy. This is an oversimplification, but basically how it often goes with GD girls. Here's a good citation for the GD-autism concurrence claim: Glidden, D., Bouman, W. P., Jones, B. A., & Arcelus, J. (2016). Gender dysphoria and autism spectrum disorder: A systematic review of the literature. Sexual Medicine Reviews, 4(1), 3-14. doi.org/10.1016/j.sxmr.2015.10.003

[@chloegrobler4275]

There is harm in being anoreic, and so validating that belief is flawed. Being trans is not inherintly harmful to anybody.

[@Jennifer-mv9pg]

The end of this interview is the part that has scared me the most. The parents who have irrevocably harmed their own children will fight to the death to have us confirm their actions and accept their trans children. I foresee a generation of de-transitioners and sadly more suicides among them than they believed they were preventing in the first place. Better a lifetime of therapy for these children than a damaged body

[@lavienestpasunlongfleuvetr2559]

Yeah, some of the parents are such zealots that it might be easier to convince some of their children of reality, particularly when they see that 'transitioning' is not the panacea that they thought it would be.

[@BenDover-il1im]

You're right that religious hate-mongers will prompt more suicides with this vicious, malicious campaign of bigotry and theofascism.

[@simonmarshall1060]

For parents who have transed their kids it is a literal fight to the death. If they give a single inch on any part of the ideology the whole thing will come crashing down, then they'll have to face what they've done. For many that will lead to insanity or self termination. This also means that these parents also have to fight to make sure their transed kid never questions the ideology.

[@highroller-jq3ix]

@@simonmarshall1060 For transphobic bigots, confronting the actual reality is untenable because then the whole, disgusting, bigoted hate ideology, underwritten by Taliban-level religious fundies, will come crashing down. This also means that the pawns of fundies have to make sure that they attempt to indoctrinate others in their vile hate campaign and propagandist lies.

[@loganjames3789]

American Intactivists have been trying to reafirm the truth that boys are not born 'broken', that the genitals they were born with are normal and fully-functioning without 'extra' parts(our prepuces) for over 30 years. We know the fight-to-the- death denial that comes with parents/doctors/obgyn's that have severed healthy genital organs from boys: they feel there is no sane option but to claim 'I was right' because the alternative is too dreadful to admit to.

[@SilverSixpence888]

"I translate the word "trans" as fake in my head." Well said.

[@samuelschick8813]

Here's a video where Charlie Kirk flat out says it: kzbin.info/www/bejne/p3abloGln7OYa6s

[@marieorritt8115]

Every time you head the word "trans woman" replace it with man and when you see the word "turf" change it to woman. You'll start noticing loads of misogyny towards us.

[@adamdonovan4071]

The Emperor’s New Clothes is actually the most profound story of all time; we just needed to witness the present times to understand it’s profundity.

[@healthyquadrant6587]

@ 27:00 You start with a hypothesis and work your way into making it a theory until disproven at which point you go back to the hypothesis and say it is false. Helen is a brilliant mind. Love what she said there at the very end as well. It is almost as if she lived the experience herself. She put herself in their shoes and can understand the dilemma. One of the best videos on the topic I've seen thus far. Thanks Peter for bringing her into the discussion on your channel!

[@katnass]

Helens closing statement was more than profound and makes this whole pile of confusion make sense. My neighbor attempted to get me evicted bc I will not participate in the word games and she happens to have 3 "trans" kids🤨🤔

[@mon_avis2978]

ca. 16:40 HJ: "I'm afraid that very clever people can lie to themselves sometimes more impressively than not very clever people." Yes, I think you're right: it _does_ boil down to just that; just that, and only that; nothing more complicated. This woman is a genius and breath of fresh air.

[@grey1951]

Thank you so much for this discussion. The world needs to hear this. I pray that your voices can continue to be heard on KZbin and elsewhere.

[@drpeterboghossian]

This conversation truly challenged my assumptions - I hope you enjoy. Given that Helen's episode with Jordan Peterson was censored, I do want to remind you that I am on Rumble, Odysee, and many other platforms, should you wish to find me there: linktr.ee/peterboghossian

[@ReverendDr.Thomas]

Do you use any of the following (somewhat euphemistic) terms? • gay • homophobia/homophobe • transphobia/transphobe • trans-sexual • transgender • cis gender • sex worker • capitalism/capitalist • any gender-specific pronoun other than he/she, him/her or his/her Then CONGRATULATIONS - you are (either knowingly or unwittingly) a silly shill for the loony left!

[@thewerewolfofnorway437]

Hey Pete, you seem really confused mate, that's how they like it. 🇦🇺

[@Sensorama2000]

I always download these videos... There are alternatives YT clients... Rqeqvqaqnqcqeqd without q😎

[@LouisGedo]

👋 👏 👍

[@markstevenson2492]

Hi Pete, huge fan of your work and Helen, however, you guys have made a little error on this episode. I'm a Biologist here who used to run human anatomy practicals. There is a grain of truth in what that guy was saying about human skeletons. Helen is not right that it I utter utter nonsense. For many skeletons it is obvious and easy to tell the difference. But there are a number of cases where it is very very difficult. His example of slighter and particularly sick males leads to low muscle mass, low bone density and even hip distortion. In the past this was actually quite common, combine that with incomplete skeletons or ones damaged post burial you end up with quite a lot of skeletons that are very very hard to sex. This is a form of obfuscation though. There are lots and lots of skeletons where it is trivial to sex them. It's sort of similar to the intersex argument, just because there are some edge cases, it doesn't mean the key differences are not there. Sex typing skeletons especially older ones is often not as easy as Helen says. Be careful here please 🙏

[@mercantilistic]

Thank you for this. Helen Joyce was a great guest and the conversation was good to listen to. I feel like some of my sanity has been restored.

[@davidpayne8413]

Give thanks for the courage of people like Helen Joyce and Kathleen Stock and Abigail Shrier

[@jambofett]

Helen is incredible in this. My first thought was to ask why I’ve never heard of her before, but given what she said about being blacklisted it’s hardly surprising.

[@danblanchard1858]

I love this woman. I've never heard of her before. Comprehending the mess were in is not easy. Listening to her sheds such needed clarity.

[@drpeterboghossian]

And reading her book sheds even more light on the problem.

[@danblanchard1858]

​@@drpeterboghossiandone! hardcover

[@suzanneaitken5939]

My first time listening to Helen. She is fantastic and my new hero

[@Paul71H]

This is a wonderful conversation. It's nice to hear that these two people who come from a liberal and/or atheist perspective are saying many of the same things that conservative and/or religious people are saying about transgenderism. As evidenced by the widespread societal backlash against so-called "gender affirming care" for children and against transgender bathroom policies, opposition to transgender ideology isn't a partisan or religious position.

[@DDR99999]

Exactly, gender ideology is a cult, it is opposed by people of various beliefs.

[@darindavis8622]

This movement has certainly created some interesting bedfellows

[@JDHobbs]

"History" is literally just what is written, there is no wrong side. I'm happy being on the "rightside" of biology, and preventing child abuse. Great discussion, Helen it so brave and articulate, it a shame she left maths...

[@carolinewalker3106]

Ever enthralling and so informative Helen Joyce , she is so clear and unwavering , a much needed voice cutting through all of the madness , thank you Helen .

[@psyskeptic9979]

I admire these two people immensely.

[@kezzokav5905]

Helen is so incredibly intelligent. Even Peter was struggling to keep up with her at times! As a woman, I find her so inspiring.

[@Boomercon3000]

I absolutely love Helen Joyce!! Thanks for this interview!

[@James-ip1tc]

This conversation could go on for hours and I would still listen to it

[@lilmoi8820]

Helen is a living legend.

[@fordprefect80]

Helen Joyce is a top sheila. Such a great conversation. Thanks.

[@jmonforton]

Thanks! This was one of the most riveting discussions that I have heard in a long time.

[@drpeterboghossian]

Thank you so very much.

[@jenniferkrhn]

Peter, “So you don’t believe there’s anyone, like Buck Angel, that has something different in their brain?” Helen, “Absolutely not, absolutely not.” Thank you for saying this Helen. We are our bodies. Which part of their bodies has somehow accidentally ended up in the wrong system? How about the liver? Heart? Left hand? How is this any different than saying they got the wrong brain? It’s a ridiculous notion.

[@ambertico]

She said she wants to 'reduce' the amount of trans people. That's against an adults bodily autonomy. Imagine if she said the same thing about abortion.

[@lemon1657]

​@@amberticoExcept it's not adults but kids and teenagers. She meant reduce the amount of mostly young people that incorrectly transition (and then detransition). Back when they had gatekeeping and doctors were responsible, they didn't make medical transition the first and only solution and so they kept a lot of mentally unwell people from harming themselves. The harm caused needs to be reduced.

[@chrislynCK]

​@@amberticoIf she said we need to reduce the amount of abortions, it would have been normal, responsible thing to say. Birth control and sex ed are in place to reduce the number of abortions or unwanted children. Abortions have serious consequences for women's physical and psychological health. Many cannot conceive naturally after having an abortion, most suffer from guilt and even depression. Unless they are psychopaths, of course. Banning abortion is wrong cause we cannot assume we can educate every single person to be responsible (young people from problematic homes, rapists etc) but trying to reduce the number of abortions is very important from the standpoint of wellbeing of women. Abortion is not something you want women to go through, quite the opposite. But sometimes not having an abortion can have worse consequences.

[@diannedavidson]

Yes. Exactly.

[@oliverhug3]

Helen is the child that shouts "THE EMPEROR IS NAKED".

[@0fuxGiven]

helen is great! thanks for getting her on

[@Hertz2laugh]

Too bad she's fat; the good people seem to die too early.

[@apathyguy8338]

Thank you so much for having a rational conversation. This was such a breath of fresh air.

[@KarlVaughan]

What an alarming but fascinating conversation. We are witnessing the birth of a new religion here, or a cult, actually. It reminds me of medieval times when you couldn't question anything and if you did you were burnt at the stake. It's a horrifying thought that children now are being physically harmed and even emotionally harmed in such a way that there will likely be major repercussions in the future. It's good to know there are still people like you and Helen out there who won't put up with this. Conversations must be had and never shut down.

[@ambertico]

She said she wants to 'reduce' the amount of trans people. That's against an adults bodily autonomy. Imagine if she said the same thing about abortion.

[@jak4bud]

​​@@amberticoyou were told in another thread that she was talking about children/youth. Stop repeating yourself. It's almost as though you know how wrong you are.

[@Peekaboo-Kitty]

Yes you can tell the difference between Male and Female Skeletal remains - * A male's skeleton is usually thicker, rougher and appears more bumpy, due to the fact that males have larger muscles and therefore their skeletons require stronger attachment sites. * Males possess a narrow pelvic cavity, broader shoulders, and longer rib cage. * The femur (thigh bone) of a male is thicker than a females. * The male acetabulum has been designed to fit a bigger femur. * The distance between the ischium bones is smaller in males. * The male pelvis is taller (owing to a higher iliac crest), narrower, and more compact. * The female pelvis is larger and broader to allow for childbirth. * The public arch is wide in females and narrow in males.

[@stevepowsinger733]

The pubic arch

[@gracethi5663]

So awesome, a lot of food for thought. It also gives me hope for the future that this brilliant brave woman is willing to stand up for the truth. Common sense will return if people like her can get their message out.

[@Patrick33456]

This conversation is beyond cathartic. I feel surrounded by delusion and this is the biggest one by a long shot. I've wondered why I care so much but hearing you both speak on it helped me realize it. It really is a 1=0 situation. I just can't stand when people are talking complete bullshit. There is zero logic behind their stances. I'm for the least amount of suffering, and in my opinion, allowing these delusions will cause tremendous harm to so many people. Being silent about it sadly propagates more suffering. I really appreciate sharing the conversation.

[@seekingfinding6204]

This is a great interview! Thank you for having Helen as a guest, this is a conversation that absolutely needs to be heard.

[@philiplong7390]

I am a gay man and I am in 100% agreement with Helen Joyce her book is a fantastic read and you end up being totally enlightened on the subject. Why does not Stonewall or other individuals etc debate Helen Joyce because she has reality and truth on her side? Listen and then you agree with her. I have had many discussions with other gay men and after hearing Helen most of the guys who are not mentally ill agree with her.

[@Capybarrrraaaa]

Because she's not willing to be honest. When her entire campaign is about strawmanning a group of people and ignoring their criticisms, why would you think any debate with her would be fruitful? If she was honestly engaging with the criticisms, the very first thing she'd do is justify the gender-binary. Instead, she's LITERALLY the director of a group called "Sex Matters". "most of the guys who are not mentally ill agree with her" couldn't help but slap ableism in there, could ya...

[@lewreed1871]

Same here.

[@lewreed1871]

@@Capybarrrraaaa There you go about "the criticisms" again. Pea-brained windbag.

[@bosmosis]

@@Capybarrrraaaa Those groups don't make "Criticisms" - they make claims, and then time and again fail to support them. And seriously, how is the gender binary more in need of a defense than the claim that gender is something someone can simply declare?

[@Capybarrrraaaa]

@@bosmosis Feel free to test your theory that they fail to support them; what I see is well-meaning people with solid arguments, having their lack of rhetorical technique exploited by dishonest assholes. People can be right, but bad at explaining it, ya know. And, to answer your question; Because cisnormative society asks for both. All that's asked of you is that you settle that hypocrisy and pick a side for yourself, preferably the one that doesn't force conformity to stereotypes. Axioms are already settled, and that makes our response rather easy to make. Feel free to inquire further; there're none such as Joyce or Walsh, here, to derail honest conversation.

[@illjusthavecoffee]

I love love love Helen Joyce, what a wonderful conversation with an amazing woman

[@siriwilliams4876]

I've watched several interviews of Helen talking about her book and the trans ideology and every time her ability to talk about it has paradoxically become more in depth and in greater detail but at the same time has also become more to the point and simple, she puts her point and reasoning across in such an efficient and logical way that anyone who would listen with an open and honest mind would have to agree with her analysis, she is definitely part of a group of people on many subjects who are starting to take back some ground on the battle of trust with experts and for lack of a better catch all term a talking head, there is an ever growing list of people with whom I might not agree with 100% on various topics and issues but I will always listen to what they say because they are arguing from an honest and thought out position and we need many more like her and yourself to make the world a place where we can talk and disagree and not draw battle lines. Thanks to both of you a great discussion