Interview With My Brother Who Sold His Startup For $60 Million | Machine Learning Engineer

[@Alfram]

No wonder why Joma is always depressed, his brother is just too OP lmao

[@Soulcybering]

He has a KZbin channel with more than 300.000 subscribers. Maybe he is not rich as the brother but surely is not for everyone 😉

[@mrheckles6076]

@@Soulcybering Who the fuck cares about subs on youtube lol

[@cucicearoland5949]

@@mrheckles6076 I would. I think I'd rather earn decent money and have a lot of people validating me than be very rich and unknown. Most of my childhood I was the guy who didn't make friends easily but was a tryhard, so that's why.

[@Soulcybering]

@@mrheckles6076 who the fuck cares about followers on Instagram. Oh Wait, there are people which work on that platform and are making profit like KZbin

[@auniquehandle]

@@cucicearoland5949 i''d be super rich and unknown everyday than a social media influencer. Real money > fake fame

[@user-jc8py7dw7r]

Joma gets less goofy and show-offy around his brilliant, serious brother.

[@fiveyearold]

His mother must be really proud of his older brother. Too bad @jomatech

[@sonnyskold]

@@fiveyearold Lmao

[@diegomichel2248]

@@fiveyearold Oh man you are Dick :O

[@mrheckles6076]

You forgot "SUCCESSFUL" as well!

[@FreezySkillz]

@@ITPCD bro what is wrong with you. What a horrible thing to say.

[@kyokushinfighter78]

Takeaways : 1. Finding other places to package ML system is more impactful than optimising the existing components over and over. 2. Pitfall : Focusing too much on academic research for business problem, lots of literatures are not reproducible. 3. Finding a way to apply ML to business is difficult, so it must be worth it and we need to define the right pipelines from training to model optimization. 4. Do not focusing on the ML, focusing on the solution of the business. 5. Solve repetitive problem with human first, then use simple heuristics, then improve the accuracy with ML. 6. Do not focusing on the technology, iterate fast on business problems. 7. Pitfall : Trying to solve too much with ML. Focus on the most important part that can be solved with ML. Dear Joma, I cannot be more thankful for this interview. This kind of interview is incredibly inspiring and valuable. I wish you can make lots of interview like this which focuses on the business/product aspects. We already have tons of material on ML, AI, Coding, Devops blabla. What we need are the WHY and HOW (to be rich like your brother). thankyou thankyou thankyou.....

[@dennisong8270]

Great summary!

[@archanapramod434]

Great! Thanks for the summary!

[@ruechaba7492]

Excellent application of design thinking process

[@Huntlylawnmowingnz]

Leg.

[@COKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK]

what is the meaning of point 1 actually? does it mean something like finding every possible place where we could implement ML system in our program?

[@lykongheng]

Dad: hi son, how's life? are you success yet? did you hear that your brother just earn $60M?

[@isaacjfung]

The company was sold for 60 million and his brother wasn’t the founder. Early stage non founder employees definitely have less than 2-3% equity. EDIT: It seems some people are saying he was 1 of 5 founders. However, we need to remember that they raised a pre-seed/seed round for probably around 5-25% of their company. Still a lot of money, but just trying to make sure people understand startup equity.

[@jayska5802]

@@isaacjfung I mean that still is a lot of money

[@isaacjfung]

@@jayska5802 Yeah, just making sure people understand how startup equity works.

[@dontreadmychanneldescripti7104]

more like 12 million.

[@francargeric1]

The company sold for 60M, after taxes he probably had a clean million, depending on the equity distribution.

[@vince6252]

This is a really high-quality interview. Probably because it's between two very intelligent and clued-up technical and business people. Thank you Joma and brother, David.

[@reinardusjoseph1017]

Sasuke and Itachi in the tech clan

[@m8ur882]

reinard joseph TRUE

[@testplmnb]

@@m8ur882 That means, one killed his whole family, right?

[@trishulbaruah6353]

@@testplmnb yup he didn't think this through before posting. Not a trve otaku

[@ImmersiveDragon]

lol

[@vaishakm6]

more like ray starling and shu starling from infinite dendrogram

[@gemini_val]

Your brother's advice on doing stuff manually and only later on automating something is great advice for pre-seed startups. Thank you very much!

[@jvishnuiitm123]

Good show. One thing I didn’t like was the sudden increase volume of music background

[@professionalprocrastinator8103]

It applies to everything really, especially in the world of engineering. Try to get a POC as fast possible, then refine it and automate it.

[@ShaoVideoProduction]

This is your best Interview yet. I really like this much more chill kind of atmosphere

[@cetilly]

This interview is brilliant! The best realistic discussion on the use of real world ML that I’ve heard. David is awesome.

[@vexpressivo]

He answered all my questions on Twitter!! I'm so humbled!!!!

[@lubeckable]

Chad programmer vs virgin youtuber

[@brickstunram9391]

Lmao

[@vik8860]

oww...Ouch!

[@ws_zilch]

LoooOoooL

[@pajeetsingh]

Joma obliterated by youtube comment. How can he even get over this?

[@Ash-bc8vw]

You guys are just jealous

[@centrall]

Sold company for 60 mill *not a piece of designer clothing in sight* goals honestly

[@ADAMBLVCK]

@@dotinsideacircle I bet he's more working than flashing brand clothing on human retinas.

[@OnlyusemyBlade420]

When you have money you don’t need too

[@volgrando97]

Real talk though, most no-named brands have better looking pieces. All the price is is just the name lul...I guess material quality too.

[@MrCleaN-ls6qz]

You don't know enough about clothing to make that judgement.

[@connorhudson422]

@@dotinsideacircle dawg Kia stinger is kinda dope

[@harrylee2870]

how happy to see own brother doing so well in life!

[@mrmack678]

please never stop making videos man i m a computer science student and i get motivated whenever i see your videos

[@GauravK_]

how you doing now?

[@mrmack678]

@@GauravK_ Doing good. Graduated with CS Degree. Working as a SWE at a automation multinational company in Pakistan.

[@asmanazir3537]

Joma is acting like he’s never seen his brother before.

[@stevenr3544]

@@goldengriffon ah yes since he was a child he was always working on his business

[@GoScience123]

@@stevenr3544 while the rest of us were playing with legos in recess his brother was assembling data sets to train his ML algorithms

[@komodo2720]

@@GoScience123 Yes. Playing with legos definetly not eating em.

[@rphero8794]

Like a stranger ha ha

[@Brian39213]

lol

[@KL-yu6om]

The coolest guy on the internet And Joma

[@TonyMrBoring]

David is a vibe. He seems calming.

[@nnmartin94]

Of course you think that, he has money lol. Without money he's boring.

[@nhungang536]

@@nnmartin94 wow so bill gates is boring w/o money :)))

[@prakash_77]

Don't doubt his vibe!

[@cornfedninja]

@@nnmartin94 so true lmaooo

[@bhpaak]

@@nnmartin94 Being intelligent is charismatic, but he doesn't come off as pretentious. He just seems matter of fact, and he doesn't try to dominate and teach. The success definitely gives credibility to his intelligence though.

[@ReigningCharmanders]

David seems like calmer and less arrogant Steven Jobbs. No wonder he was so successful.

[@zabrak999]

just high IQ things~

[@richardyang7486]

Pretty amazing. Lisa is basically a one-stop interactive AI system. It actually could be fitting all the fields and doesn't need to be just for the real state.

[@naderahmed6414]

I could definitely use it for scheduling tours

[@yungkalimusic]

These guys act like Buisness partners not brothers

[@maaad5073]

In chinese, there is brother in business..

[@maaad5073]

There is no family in bussiness

[@cvhashim]

You got all that from this video? Joma keeping it professional

[@gmshadowtraders]

It's an asian thing. These traditional family cultures and heightened expectations, are nothing short of ruthless.

[@vinayyyyy_]

gmshadowtraders I disagree even I was surprised by their conversation like I thought it was more like an American thing & definitely not asian

[@FrediFernandez]

6:45 --> So true! Models are useless if cannot perform in a Production environment. Encountered this several times as a PM. I predict that eventually there will be an open source framework that will help integrating the Data Science (models) with the Data engineering part of it (infrastructure)

[@TheoChihaia]

Thanks!

[@sorvex9]

Working as a ML specialist at a small startup, this was definitely inspiring. And it made me feel less shitty about the simple solutions I have come up with for the company so far, lol

[@dewinmoonl]

lvl1 practitioner of X: "have you thought about using X for problem?!" lvl2: "here's how you an still do X, but it's probably not needed" lvl3: "have you thought of NOT using X?"

[@GodsNode]

Joma low key richer than tech lead by association now.

[@eerrkk]

Incredibly insightful. I hope I'll be able to remember everything covered in this interview. If I do, I'm sure this'll help shape the rest of my career.

[@popionlyone]

This guy is funny as hell in the ending when plugging his twitter.

[@jorgevasquezang]

Joma don't goooo, we need more of these interviews :(

[@raghav4296]

If you're a budding entrepreneur, this video is gold - Lots of tips, how to stay focused on the outcome than premature optimizing. Cheers.

[@DrJohana21]

You could tell His brother is a genius. 🧠 gives off that “Brilliant” vibe.

[@itsme7570]

They're both obviously very smart but his brother sounds extremely intelligent. Inspirational fs

[@johnsullivan1827]

A big part of ML engineering is "production-izing" the model - taking a model you learned and tested in development, and integrating it into whatever system or application you've created. Bonus points if you create a production system that allows you to A/B test different models against each other live in production in a statistically significant way.

[@КриптоНовости-х1о]

This interview shed light on a lot of questions for me. Great advice! Thank you!

[@AkshayAradhya]

His brother sat with perfect posture throughout the entire interview.

[@lolvivo8783]

26:00 Joma: " are u guys hiring (pointing himself) " Then goes on to interview the 'could be' boss.

[@Filaxsan]

To which David reply: "yes, we need GOOD engineers" closing definitely the conversation 😂🤣

[@brianombiro6689]

Wow this is an incredible interview and video thank you so much for this! You and your brother are awesome!

[@MKMK-bj2sk]

*You should do a video with your parents. They must be proud!*

[@PacMan755]

Yeah proud of his brother not JOMA lool

[@mankybrains]

@@PacMan755 joma gets away from it if he's the youngest of the siblings. That's always the case. No need to be the star just be the baby.

[@graceliao7192]

Thanks for doing the show! Great inspirations!

[@gur-sin]

8:15 Joma: "Maybe not everything should use blockchain technology" Also Joma: Creates an entire cinematic universe surrounding eccentric CEOs trying to integrate blockchain into window blinds and shades. Coincidence? I think not!

[@cemtekesin9033]

I really liked David's wisdom there. Everyone is trying to fit models but not spending any thought to solve a problem in the real-world with a holistic approach. Bravo:)

[@JacobCritch]

2 brothers who are so alike is rare

[@SouravendraKrishnaDeb]

Joma's brother is so cool man.

[@projectKhaled]

super valuable interview... wish you just did more of these types of interviews, extremely motivating

[@lasagna3106]

These dudes are Savage's, they keep their employees under 30, sell for 60m, quickly.

[@UsaM]

like making an object, making it look and do good. mold then sell, then make something new.

[@khadijahalsmiere3718]

“I was a researcher bla bla bla “ nothing hit my heart so fast.

[@DrJohana21]

He’s so adorable 🥰 omg I hope Joma does more interviews with him.

[@speedodaga6437]

more like rich

[@hermanbrown9454]

How do you call an adult male adorable ?

[@djvelocity]

Amazing interview! *I feel lucky to have come across this!* 🙌😊📚🤩

[@tomyao7884]

Very good points made by the interviewee!

[@Rowing-li6jt]

Very good diagram!! Made it easy to understand overview of LISA!

[@jomakaze]

Thanks, I worked hard on that

[@simonezanetti6348]

Broo please put your interview on Spotify as podcasts so I can just easily listen to them offline when communing ❤️

[@DewTime]

Simone zanetti You can already do that with KZbin red. Couldn’t imagine not having it

[@TommyCallaway]

Fascinating conversation. Thank you

[@ghmg2554]

I loved the question you asked him on how LISA actually works. Gave me some ideas on how to explain the interactions in the app am working on.

[@onezone8865]

As someone who is working with Machine Learning for my university's final year project this is so interesting and has certainly got me focusing on the right idea. Thank you so much for publishing this

[@rohlay00]

What do you study? I'm doing robotic engineering and would love to do that! But I dont know if I have (or could develop) the skills to be able to do my final year project with machine learning.

[@rohanktaylor]

Close your eyes and he sounds like Elon Musk slightly 😂😂😂

[@funkychunky8759]

So fing trueeeee

[@purewoody1623]

LoL ya you wish

[@radonsmith4386]

More than slightly

[@AlbertoRivas13]

Yoooo so true

[@AlbertoRivas13]

Talking like that is the key to success aparently

[@zackpane7973]

THANK YOU FOR PUTTING THUMBNAIL CONTENT AT THE BEGINNING. THIS MOVE MAKES ME WATCH THE WHOLE VIDEO

[@mikedqin]

A great interview. After watching it, I subscribed your channel. Thanks, Hope to see something like this more...

[@SuperKillaki]

Your brother is very humble about his intelligence

[@okamiozomaki5192]

I've watched this video for about three times and now this the fourth time. Is just make me feel ready to get into tech industry but unfortunately I drop out from college due for my language skills at that time. Never give up.

[@allahm-ast3mnlywlatstbdlny164]

good luck

[@DrAdnan]

Dang, he’s living the dream

[@presentmiracle3570]

Joma’s bro: had a start up sold for 60M Joma: we still don’t know what happened to NOTVINE! 😂

[@hassanjaber8169]

WHEN IS HE GOING TO CONTINUE THAT

[@saltyml3168]

Epic 😂😂

[@ikhsanrobbani9479]

This interview gave me inspiration on how we should interact with users such as not answering quickly to maintain the conversation. Every ML engineer should apply that when building an ux-friendly chatbot.

[@yahbin77]

A humble Super Nerdy ML Engineer..

[@JiluJourneys]

You look much better than few months during your job searching. Preparing for interviews when I know nothing about algorithms is so stressing😭 I feel you man.

[@PescaitoFrito]

Aww hope you can overcome the situation, ♥

[@la_da_kid]

Yo your brother is speaking facts. Everyone is worried about building the model and not feature engineering. Majority of the time your messing with the data pipeline but people don’t wanna hear that

[@ron-davin]

Who would win? TechLead or Joma's brotha'?

[@codedestiny6955]

KZbin

[@louiscotteta566]

Code Destiny well played

[@user-jc8py7dw7r]

Ron Davin Divina Joma’s brother...

[@MKMK-bj2sk]

Their bank account

[@sykexz6793]

The guy who fired the Techlead

[@richardbeen6545]

Success is not final; failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts. Business opportunities are like buses, there’s always another one coming.

[@ginalucy5797]

Talking about opportunities investing in crypto currency now should be in every wise individuals list. In two to three years time you might be estactic with the decision made today

[@trishaelba1872]

It’s fortunate that many of us are still confused about crypto currency while others are busy earning from it

[@fredamercedes5191]

@@trishaelba1872 Is never stressful when you're guided by a pro

[@fredamercedes5191]

I remember friends calling me crazy when I started investing in bitcoin now I shut them up with my 4 figures weekly returns.

[@antoniahope7254]

Thanks so much to Ma'am Diana Lucy for introducing and making me believe in crypto

[@aseuvella6102]

Your bro seems to be being a good Guy, props to your parents for two Great children

[@YiannisPi]

I agree with Joma's brother. In the corporate world of data science, you don't really get time to do the "fun staff" of ML/AI as you have deadlines and projects to deliver. You are way more concern about the results/value and not the maths/algos. Things they don't teach at school! great video btw!

[@christinea8763]

So ML increases user-readiness for the final product and that involves full project management with various focuses activated simultaneously... it's not all sitting and doing the obvious coding work, anymore... and he thinks that's the fun. He likes doing all the busywork to define the existing infrastructure. Most engineers don't see the gold in being like that, probably because they're impatient. They'd rather lose sleep optimizing components with no confirmed demand because then you look amazing instantly. Loved the visual accompaniment. I'll miss these videos.

[@bikashsingh7]

I read most of the comments but didn't see anyone comparing them to Sherlock and Mycroft. It really looked like Sherlock interviewing his brother on a case he's solving.

[@MuMu124]

Thats inspirational man Much appreciated

[@ThinhNguyen-bw6xb]

I hopefully i’ll be hired for his company in the next 5 years, this video make my try hard to learn more python packages

[@ridwan3709]

apart from money or popularity things..being an engineer is already brilliant and prestigious, especially in computer field, your knowledge and skill are be able to shape the technology advancement that other profession cannot do. most job science and social need computer and technology

[@panamerican0]

Would definitely pay to learn more about the components and processes that he found helpful when building for existing products.

[@jordanpalmer8054]

wow this was super informative, thanks!

[@cxa011500]

Great interview. It's cool to see two really smart people who are comfortable with each other discussing technical topics. 👍 Also, this really reminds me of how much I've wasted my life. 😑

[@veedoto6109]

It's been a year. Let me guess, another year wasted?

[@mastermind5421]

@@veedoto6109 lmao

[@ianlee6769]

@@veedoto6109 god damn

[@zomi892]

Brother, that video was a gold mine , hats off & thank you.

[@michaelbrownnn]

13:51 Maybe show dark interface!

[@Lucas-LeFever]

This was very valuable! Awesome job!

[@kabeloserage9300]

I have an internship interview coming up and the insight at 7:15 will come in very handy. Thank you

[@efthymiosn3381]

@@straightbussin They got accepted

[@jobosan4855]

Joma's brother is his best interview yet.

[@catllionare]

I'm curious about the business side of things. Did they raise funds to start their biz and to also pay themselves while building the company? How were they able to sustain themselves while working on the biz? And were they all sharing the same apartment in the meantime? Some things that we don't learn in school or online platforms that would give some good insights for people.

[@nooruddinimad]

This is really informative, thanks. No boasting, just real information and facts.

[@arsenengenzi7852]

Seeing Joma being serious is funny 😂😂😂

[@lakshya6235]

Just wanna say this is absolutely true, in my 3 years of experience for companies like Adobe, you have to do it all, and you have to start simple.

[@david_bp_col]

Every video that I watch of Joma is lit af

[@alexdai_]

Very cool interview, really informative, thank you!

[@ilyesmilyesm2576]

why you don't hire the Techlead, oh wait! he will ask for a 1million bucks as his salary x)

[@TechLead]

Wrong, I only want $500-600k. It's not that much.

[@ilyesmilyesm2576]

@@TechLead Hahahahaha! such a contented man..

[@zacharyevans2239]

@@TechLead how long do you spend trawling youtube to find comments mentioning you?

[@jethalalgada1132]

@@zacharyevans2239 less than you crawling youtube to find people to hate on.

[@SK-mr6ov]

Zachary Evans probably made a program to look for his name lmao

[@Endlessvoidsutidos]

great interview loved the break down of the product amazing

[@loganyang]

Hey Joma thanks for uploading this. This is easily the most helpful video I watched on KZbin ever! I'm an ML engineer at a startup that does something similar to your brother's company but in a different industry. I agree with every word he said. I'm quite curious about the part of the system that lets the "operator" take over when the bot doesn't know how to respond. Is it based on a low confidence score from an intent model on a message level? I imagine it will hand over completely to a human and never hand back, or is there some mechanism to facilitate a back and forth from bot to/from human? My prediction is that the "command center" thing that integrates bot and human is going to be a huge market for a lot of industries.

[@ankurharitosh1708]

Hi Logan, I would be glad if you could help me out. I'm a 4th-year undergrad with research projects in ML. But I don't understand what skills I need to develop to use my ML knowledge in building products and in the industry as it is not the same as writing papers. Thanks :)

[@loganyang]

@@ankurharitosh1708 Hi Ankur, I think my suggestion is the same as David Ma's. The most important thing is to build an AI product, an end-to-end system. You need to be hands-on in a lot of areas like problem formulation, schema design and data acquisition strategy, data pipeline and system architecture, model training and selection, data and model versioning, offline and online evaluation, metric optimization and improvement feedback loop, re-training and active learning, and then more things about software engineering in general. Traditional education or even ML online courses mainly focus on the model part. But in reality, building an ML product is much more than that. David Ma suggests joining a startup or a startup-like team in a big company because that's the only way to gain real product experience. Coming back to your situation, I think that there are a lot of people in this ML hype train right now, so competition is fierce. Companies usually don't directly hire new grads to build ML products. In my opinion that's not necessarily right. But given there are so many people competing for limited established positions, you need to stand out from all the students by either building real ML applications as personal projects, getting relevant internships, or becoming a known figure in the blogging/knowledge sharing space. Or you can start as a software engineer and gradually move your way to an ML team inside an organization. I think many people adopted the latter approach.

[@ankurharitosh1708]

@@loganyang Thank you so much for clearing my doubts and explaining so well:) I have relevant ML internships & papers. I know the ML model & optimization part but not many other software engineering skills to build a product. For now, do you know of any learning resources that teach this?

[@sarathbabu1072]

@@loganyang Bro,You Scared me....because I started to learn ML 3 months ago but now it making me to think "you wasted 3 months".

[@loganyang]

Ankur Haritosh for system design there should be a lot of materials online. You can also find blogs. The problem is there aren’t many organized materials for ML systems for now. If you find good books on the topics I mentioned please share with me. Other than that, what I did was building stuff and learn from mistakes which is the hard way.

[@kc0tlh]

Such high quality content. LOVE your channel.

[@drewcaster]

Wonder why joma didn't work with his bro especially during his hiatus and when he mentioned they needed SWE help?

[@BRBallin1]

Probably not his area of interest

[@Loppy2345]

They're a startup, they wouldn't be able to pay him a salary, and they didn't need another co-founder.

[@sorvex9]

@@BRBallin1 He literally tried working as a data scientist, lol.

[@adityasharma7342]

man this was a proper tech interview ......way better than those interviews which media channels conduct like how did you achieve this at such a young age or do you want to beat facebook or google(blah blah blah).....

[@arsalonamini-hajibashi1514]

This is a great talk. Your brother is very knowledgable and I'm greatful to hear this conversation and the insights provided. Thanks for both of your time! I'd be interested to hear how "software engineering" concepts are distinguished from ML components. Is the SWE part working with React, Node.JS building UI, user logins, system design components (databases, caching, indexing, CDNs)? Was the SWE focused on web development (DJANGO w/ python or MongoExpressReactNode) or mobile (IOS / Android)?

[@wishIKnewHowToLove]

Nobody reads long comments

[@daboren1547]

Finally you are back, man , keep checking you everyday!!!!!

[@user-or7ji5hv8y]

Really appreciate the honesty, instead of usual AI hype

[@clearance93]

Joma's brother seems like a guy that can scold people if you messed up a little problem, the face seems like a person that doesn't like small mistakes over and over again, I kinda know those people

[@chiragthakur430]

13:51 caught that small detail :3

[@shareenarshad8807]

I love your channel Joma! Please keep up the good work

[@gaurav63105]

I am building a similar startup as your brother before he pivoted :D The Dream is still alive :)

[@rapha_devox]

Awesome video!