Interview With The Vampire 2X6 Reaction & Commentary ( Foxtaco )

[@foxtaco]

Please double check and make sure you are subbed with notifications on i might drop 7&8 out of nowhere 😊 with that said. Question. Is it possible this can be my favorite episode and contain the moment I disagree with the most in the series. The answer is yes..both are possible. Epsiode 7&8 are available on patreon Now www.patreon.com/foxtaco?

[@Edboy-p1u]

.2 seconds of Lestat in this episode. Taco screaming “that’s why he the goat! The goat!”

[@foxtaco]

🤣🤣🤣 the reference lol, THE FKING GOAT!!!!!🐐👑

[@DaysieRose]

Fox's reaction to seeing Lestat gives me life. You GOTTA read the books, FT! Anne Rice loved him almost as much as you do.

[@janetgriffin7779]

Taco thank you for what you said about SA being in so many types of media. It is exhausting because it happens so much irl. It’s like we can’t get away from it even in a fictional world. Women (and men) KNOW that the threat of SA is ALWAYS there in pretty much every situation.

[@booksgurrsandpurrs]

Madeleine is incredible for the little time she has on screen. Shout out to the casting director.

[@DaysieRose]

Roxanne Duran was really great to the fans too. She liked or answered every mention or question anyone sent her on Twitter. Absolute sweetheart ❤

[@glamazon6172]

I thoroughly enjoy your Lestat enthusiasm, as always. Sam gets to EAT next episode.

[@whatadollslife]

Brad Pitt when he played Louis didn't have all this dialogue he just spent the whole movie pouting

[@angelaholmes8888]

Yep

[@xtxpxhx]

ugh yes, louis talking about beige pillows as if he wasnt the beigest of them all

[@glamazon6172]

The least interesting part of that movie.

[@jess.alcantara]

@@xtxpxhx YES OMG!!! so damn BORING. the show and Jacob bring so much more life to Louis.

[@SaiyanSerenityV]

Madeline's turning is genuinely so lovely, I remember Louis saying "All vampires are born from trauma". Seeing them being her in so peacefully and gently, I was leaky I'm not gonna lie

[@reneejones5760]

That's why consent was a big deal to Lestat. And yet, he gave none to Claudia

[@foxtaco]

@@reneejones5760 yea with the pressure from Louis Lestat decided to go against his better judgment💔 super sad

[@rachelz57]

here's my theory on why the dom/sub roleplay feels off between louis and armand. In a safe,sane,consenual dynamic, typically while the dom holds the power within the scene (or 24/7 in some cases), they only have that power because it's freely given to them by the sub. The dom's role is to plan and execute a scene that meets the needs of the sub and to maintain their relative emotional and physical safety. They're not doing this to meet armand's needs, they're doing this to compensate for the disparity between their vampiric powers. It's not genuine, it's a facade for louis to feel comfortable enough in the relationship, and armand allows it because he only knows how to mold himself into whatever shape someone wants to get them to stay.

[@AnxietyRat]

Exactly. I agree with this so much!! Additionally, I will say that canonically in the books Armand is a switch. So he does like submission... potentially for very complicated reasons as submission is VERY interconnected with his trauma... But he does seem to like it sometimes.... But yeah being a sub isn't the only thing that Armand is in his sexual relationships... he does like being dominant sometimes and he just isn't in his relationship with Louis EVER because he knows that's not what Louis is actually wanting... He's **absolutely**molding himself to fit Louis preferences... And I wouldn't be surprised if that's a trauma response from Armand. Its probably a skill he learned very early on in his life, unfortunately. It's probably almost second nature for him, at this point. But yeah they are both going about this BDSM dynamic in a really really unhealthy way... There are absolutely healthy ways to do what they are doing... But they are not doing it to the healthy way!

[@paulrosner1967]

I love how genuinely excited you got when you realized Lestat was there. 😀

[@booksgurrsandpurrs]

Roland Jones grabs the emotional current of Anne Rice's books and expands on it. A lot of what we see & love on screen is not in the books, but feels true to Anne Rice's books. The writing/dialogue is very much Anne Rice stylistically. The show somehow managed to make it all more messy & tragic.

[@xtxpxhx]

basically it's just the plot, they changed it so much.. i just reread iwtv and every relationship, guilt and responsibility link seemed to have changed direction. armand is indistinguible. i mean season 3 might still changed it all... but i always fell weird when ppl praise anne for a scene that didn't happen in the books but still the series are build on the world she created so it still feels hers. i mean specially these last episodes i imagine her writing long essays about why her characters were different but still imagine her liking them, specially sam, i think she will have loved sam .

[@booksgurrsandpurrs]

​@@xtxpxhx I recently re-read IWTV & The Vampire Lestat and was surprised at what stood out to me and what the show runners picked up to adapt. Daniel/the boy report is a welcome change. Armand doesn't seem that different to me. He's still someone that lurks, is dismissed by Louis time & time again & with that terrible back story. 💔

[@DaysieRose]

Yes, exactly. In the book, Daniel is a young man, so the majority of the San Francisco episode stands apart from the book plot, but some of the original dialogue is there. Also, Claudia is trapped in the tiny body of a 5 year old child, so a lot of her plot is changed to correspond to her age, such as book Madeline being a maternal figure grieving for her dead child instead of a friend or love interest. But these writers snatched the original prose where they could, and I feel like the soul of the story is definitely there. I love the books, and I love this show.

[@jaginaiaelectrizs6341]

​@@xtxpxhx I really don't think they changed that much, so much as I personally think they just played around with a lot of 'What If's....like "what if [x] happened in this year of time instead of that year of time" or "what if Louis was not white" or "what if Claudia was 14 instead of 5", and so on. Or they took the _core_ of certain things, even while abandoning the literal specific details, like by grabbing onto the fact that Anne Rice's books were originally set during then-current times-so they said "how can we make things set in now-current times", and such. Maybe that's just me, being weirdly specific, but I personally feel that's an important distinction which seems lost on many of my fellow book!fans.

[@glittermethis]

@@jaginaiaelectrizs6341Agreed! Outside of one side character’s fate, which doesn’t really matter in the grand scheme of things…the twists in the show haven’t changed the overall story arc from the books, so far. We’re still teed up nicely for TVL. I wish my fellow book purest would give this show a chance, but it’s their loss.

[@orangemarmalade77]

I cracked up at "y'all probably don't watch sports" Accurate! Your emotions were all over the place in this one and for good reason. I agree with you about the SA storyline. I understand why they went with that story for them, but I still hate it. In terms of Louis, I love him as a character AND he has toxic traits just like the rest of them. Believe me, show Louis much better than book Louis ever was. Jacob Anderson gives the character charm even when Louis's being awful. And I agree with you about Claudia and Madeleine. So glad we got to see a few lovely moments with them at least. I can't wait to see what you thought of the final two!

[@booksgurrsandpurrs]

11:39 The theatrical dialogue Santiago has during rehearsal is straight from the book.

[@DaysieRose]

Some of my favorite lines Anne wrote. Ben Daniels was dazzling. I get chills every time I see it ❤

[@reneejones5760]

I totally agree with the overuse of sexual assault against characters in media. And no, it's not in the book, and neither was Claudia's. She was toddler size and, therefore, never left on her own. In the book, Madeline was to be her "parent" figure because she literally couldn't walk around outside without it being odd. There's no reason for SA in this.

[@AnxietyRat]

Yeah, you're absolutely right that it's a little bit strange that they've added uncanonical SA into the show... Mainly because there's quite a bit of canonical SA in the books.... I'm curious once they get to adapting The Vampire Armand what they are going to do... Because there is honestly an excessive amount of SA in that book. Like book readers who don't have ANY triggers regarding SA have said that they had to put the book down a couple of times and take a walk because it's really REALLY hard to get through. With how they're handling SA so far in the show I don't think it's going to get super duper graphic like it does in the book...but it's going to have to be MORE graphic than what they've been depicting so far... More frequent, anyway.... Or they might just use one episode to cover his human life like they did with Louis... But that's going to be a really difficult episode to get through... It's going to be a really dark one... So yeah I'm just really curious what they're going to do when they get there... Cuz there's really no way around it, unfortunately. SA was a VERY large chunk of Armands' human life. And most likely has trickled into his vampiric life as well... If his behavior was Louis is any indication of how he's coping with shit. 😂 NOT WELL. I agree it's kind of weird that they gave additional SA scenes to both Claudia and Madeline when they didn't NEED to... it's not in the source material. There are other characters in the book series that have survived SA.... I guess the writer's room got a bit impatient or something. 😬

[@jaginaiaelectrizs6341]

​​@@AnxietyRat (vaguely spoilery, maybe , just touching a bit more on the SA in Armand's story) I would say that most of the actual SA in Armand's book happens off-page or skimmed over in exceptionally little to no detail. Armand has an extreme distaste for talking about the absolutely most unsavory and unpleasant moments in his past, not to mention his trauma induced amnesia and all. (For example, there is one point where Armand basically just says "I think I was 'graped' at this point" and that's it.) But there is A LOT of....DubCon. Especially because of age-gaps and extreme power imbalances and such. (It could definitely be argued that there is only DubCon and nothing but DubCon, through-and-through.) And for people who are sensitive to DubCon or who don't particularly see DubCon as at all distinct from NonCon,[ even without having personal experiences that might make it triggering] it can still get pretty harrowing, especially when considering the more psychological aspects at play too. It's really difficult to explain Armand's backstory and what exactly is so extremely horrific and intense about it without really just reading it for yourself or literally spoiling everything though, but I would personally say that the SA side is arguably the least of it.😅😅😶 But I think sometimes, also, that a lot of people forget that in the books vampire biting without consent is pretty much explicitly analogous with SA too. Like multiple different characters in the books refer to noncon biting as "grape" outright. So...in a tv series where the two acts have been distinctly separated rather more than they ever were so clearly separated in the books, it kinda makes sense that there might sometimes be a little more SA in the tv series than in the books. (Even though I'm also not a fan of the show putting that on both Claudia and Madeleine, especially when this is basically the only significant female characters we get in the story at all so far.) I'm really hoping the value and significance/importance especially of a vampire's blood to vampires will be highlighted a bit more in the tv series moving forward. I'm actually worried that they might downplay the SA a bit in the tv series when they get to Book 6. And I don't really think that would be any better a choice than overplaying it. But maybe that's just me.

[@AnxietyRat]

@jaginaiaelectrizs6341 yeah, I'm just going off of what book readers have told me. The really dark topics that are touched upon in the books aren't things that I want to read personally and so I am probably never going to actually read the books myself.(But yes thankfully most of the book readers I've talked to have talked about how non-consensual biting and blood sharing is essay in the books and they have kind of depicted it slightly in the show as well they just haven't explicitly stated it.... Consensual bites look very pleasurable and non-con ones are very clearly painful) I've just heard that Armands book was difficult to get through from multiple different people who have read it so... Good to know that I guess it was mostly off page and not necessarily super detailed! Maybe the people that I've seen talking about Armand's book are particularly sensitive to dubcon...idk. Some of the people I've talked to have said that some of the depictions of SA get pretty graphic...so 🤷‍♀️ but yeah I honestly hope that they don't downplay just how extremely traumatic his life most likely was... It's going to be difficult to write and watch probably but I think it's an important story at the end of the day... But also I do not have any trauma relating to SA... So I'm usually pretty okay with watching depictions of it in the media that I watch and I'm okay with TV shows and movies depicting this type of traumatic event... Probably because it doesn't trick on me so that makes sense lmao...I just prefer not to read it.

[@jaginaiaelectrizs6341]

@AnxietyRat Nah, I think that's totally fair, no worries. I definitely wasn't trying to tell you or anyone else that you should read it, just mentioning that it is difficult to feel like I can really capture or embody any of it nearly as well as essentially just living through the whole ordeal with the character does. Don't get me wrong though, there *IS* definitely some SA that is described quite explicitly on page, and triggering or not its definitely not something I'd just recommend blindly for everyone-the best way I ever saw anyone put it was to say that sometimes Armand and readers would disagree about what was/wasn't the worst of it. So, I totally respect anyone who would just rather not read it, for sure. All I meant was that Armand likely goes through a lot more even than just what is explicitly described, and there is some of it that is described which some readers may argue is SA that other readers might argue was not SA because the consent is dubious at best and sometimes different readers have very different opinions about exactly which thing(s) do or do-not qualify as consent and/or negate the consent. (Like, for some people, Armand's young age in the book means that it would always be SA to those readers even if there had been enthusiastic consent and no other imbalanced power dynamics at play aside from his lack of age. Similarly, there are a lot of other various specific factors that could be argued to possibly negate the relevancy of whether or not he technically consented and whether or not it should actually matter or count. If that makes sense? Like we're talking about a lot of situations where some readers might say "it was complicated" while other readers might go "no it absolutely wasn't complicated it was just plain wrong" basically exactly like the tv series currently has viewers doing about Lestat[, or just about any of the others,] already....and then some. I personally tend to err a little more on the "it was complicated" side, but I know there are a lot of people who land much more squarely on the "it wasn't complicated it was just wrong side", and that's just as valid.) In any case, here's to hoping that they will do his story well but thoughtfully/tactfully/mindfully.

[@glittermethis]

@@jaginaiaelectrizs6341 I’m enjoying this discussion. I wasn’t a fan of the SA on Claud and Mads. Although, I understand it was meant to show us that it wasn’t safe for Claud to be on her own and Mads was tied to a period accurate scenario that happened to many women like her. I just wish the threat to them was something different because we knew their ultimate fate, so they didn’t need SA on top of their limited time. Besides, like you said, there is plenty of canon SA in the books to choose from if those events are included in the show. Lestat did not want the dark gift. Most of us book readers viewed what happened to him as SA. I wonder how the show is going to handle his turning next season.

[@Zinosal98]

Louis had mixed feelings about Madeline. She was taking away Claudia, while he had killed the man he was supposed to be with for eternity just to be with Claudia. Now, he couldn't have her anymore. This situation might have made him regret leaving Lestat. He didn't want to be a maker because you can feel your fledgling's emotions strongly, and he didn't yet feel close enough to Madeline to carry her within himself. I would like to mention that Louis had already said "I love you" to Armand, and Madeline could sense his love for someone else at that moment. Louis recalled what Lestat told him when he turned him, "The architecture of our creation means to humble us," but Louis couldn't finish the line. I think after becoming a maker, all he could think about was Lestat. I truly love how you enjoy the show! And your reaction to Lestat was such a mood! ❤️

[@_3M_M3_]

"I'm too big of a fan" lmao your face before saying that xD he reset your whole brain 🤣🤣

[@kev2020]

I didn't care for the SA thing either and think that they had Claudia be the person that she needed when Bruce abducted her. I was hoping that Claudia would have been able to have a "healthy" introduction as a vampire. My thoughts concerning the vampires are that their personalities are just as frozen in time as their bodies. They can gain knowledge but are the same at the core. Armand and his need to serve 1(sometimes 2) master(s). Louis is still on that "We were equals in the quiet dark" BS knowing these powerhouses could benchpress him. When he's crashing then he's murderous or running into the sun. Claudia is still intuitive, impulsive, and careless. Lestat was always jealous and triggered by religion. None of them worked on themselves. 34:40 🤣🤣🤣 Lestat was SHARP sharp. Great callback to the "happiness" reference from DreamStat. I hadn't considered that.

[@booksgurrsandpurrs]

14:50 Daniel said Armand's drinks are better, because Armand pretended to be Rashid in season 1 & was making drinks that Daniel put in his notes taste so good he wonders if he worked at a bar before. So he's just poking at the fact that Armand puts on a manipulative pretense/persona... Can't be trusted

[@AnxietyRat]

Not just that Armand works at a bar the specific bar that Daniel mentions in his notes, Dukes, is a bar that is VERY famous for their martinis. So Armand makes Daniel's martinis like he's at a professional martini bar, essentially, meaning that Armand REALLY knows how Daniel likes his martinis... A lot of people are thinking it's potentially a devil's minion callback.... Regardless of if it was a devil's minion reference or just a "Wow, Armand is really good at making martinis" it definitely was Daniel poking at Armand's ribs... And from the look at Armand's face after he says that bit of dialogue ...the blow landed.

[@jaginaiaelectrizs6341]

​@@AnxietyRat Lestat was said to taste like "vermouth and annihilation" ... so Daniel mentioning "not enough vermouth" could possibly be a subtle dig at LouMand's relationship being somehow lacking too. Some people even interpret that line as possibly insinuating that LouStat was better. (Sorry if you're already aware of this theory, it's hard to keep track sometimes who all has or hasn't been in which comment threads before exactly! 😁🙃 Lol) I personally tend to think it may have started out more along that way, but then also transitioned a little more to Daniel begrudgingly/reluctantly having to admit openly that Armand[ who Daniel is basically claiming to loathe pretty much everything about at that particular moment] actually mixes kind of compliment-worthy drinks.😅😂 But it also kinda just now suddenly occurred to me that Armand could possibly interpret it as an implication that Armand isn't good for anything except serving at the pleasure of others and should consider getting back "in his place" or whatever too, which...despite Armand's sometimes submissive side, I think might really bother Armand. I don't think he'd take kindly to feeling like he was being told that was where he belonged, 'cause that hits a bit different than simply choosing to be there in that position or not for whatever reasons of his own. Buut maybe that's just me, idk.

[@corabee923]

I agree with you so much about the overuse of SA in storylines. I was a teen in the 80s and 90s and it seemed like it was in every piece of media back then, even the comedies.

[@FrankFreezy_]

Loved the long intro boss man🙏🏾🧡

[@jaginaiaelectrizs6341]

30:16 - "I have too many favorites!" is such a valid and relatable feeling!😅😅😊💖

[@irxna2464]

27:27 i think this episode louis is very much in the mindset he had in nola when he was human, running all his business and being a little rough around the edges, and that is very noticeable in the way he acts and the choices he makes

[@tvaddict6623]

That sequence of making Madeleine is one of the most beautiful of the series. The writing alone is gorgeous!

[@grache-]

You always have such engaging and thoughtful commentary and I am SOOO excited to see your reaction to 7&8 14:52 "it's just his were better" as in when armand was playing Rashid and making Daniel's drinks for him they were exactly to his taste You always crack me up giving Anne rice too much credit 😂 let us say our daily prayer to the iwtv writers room

[@booksgurrsandpurrs]

Im back 😂 had to run some errand. 36:23 I like the symbolism of Madeleine being a clothes designer. She has a talent that requires envisioning an idea and then fulfilling that idea. I think that's part of her ability to see Claudia for who she truly is. 💔

[@mollymawkery]

I often wonder how much Louis' attitudes in the present, and his feelings about the parts of the story that are about to happen, influence how he tells the story to Daniel. For example, when he first started telling Daniel about how he and Armand met, it was very much a soft love story. At that point in the present day, Louis was trying to convince Daniel that he and Armand were a solid partnership and that Louis no longer cared about Lestat. In this episode, Louis has just learned that Armand erased a major and traumatic event from his mind and is feeling betrayed, and he's about to relay another betrayal by Armand. So is when1940s Louis is assertive and dismissive of Armand, treating him like property, is that because this is how it actually happened, or is modern Dubai Louis projecting his frustration and hurt into the narrative?

[@jaginaiaelectrizs6341]

This is actually a really good question 🤔🤔 👀 (kinda calls back to how differently Louis talked about Lestat and things in the first interview in 1970s San Francisco versus how Louis is talking now in 2020s Dubai too) It's juicy to ponder!!!

[@lanasan2116]

45:42 thank you for saying this! sometimes I feel crazy when trying to explain this to people (guys especially) I wonder if I'm being too sensitive because it usually pertains to women and I'm a woman, but it bothers me too, so it's nice that there's guys who see the issue here. I'm always side-eyeing scenes like these because I'm suspicious of the motivation behind them (is it done in a respectful way/ for the sake of realism (because it is a reality for too many women) or is it actually shoved into the story for entertainment?) This is so much more apparent when you watch older media, even just a decade ago (not even gonna mention the 60-80s yikes) and same could be said for slavery movies, yes. I like to think they weren't doing that in this (at least I hope not) but totally understand your dislike of it. Also your reaction to Lestat was hilarious. People can hate him, but almost always excited to see him. Kinda iconic 😂

[@falsenostalgia-shannon]

4:32 YES!! Thank you for all of that! It’s been wild to see how people online are so heavily pro/anti the specific characters from IWTV (now that there’s a show). I absolutely love all the main characters, and I have for decades (before the ‘94 movie, put it that way). That’s how the fandom used to be, and still is in some places. The characters are ALL problematic, just like extreme versions of people in real life, but a lot of viewers don’t see that. Here on YT, reactors tend to stan Louis and hate Lestat. On tumblr, people tend to be like me and love or at least appreciate them all; off the top of my head it’s the only place online that is like this.

[@foxtaco]

As a reactor the knee jersey reaction is probably to go with liking louis and condemning lestat because it appears to be low hanging fruit..you'll gain alot of support by just calling him "evil" im thinkng about making a video about social media and how it actually effects reactors from living their true opinions

[@glittermethis]

@@foxtacoI’d love to see a video about that.

[@booksgurrsandpurrs]

Armand & Louis have no experience of being in a healthy relationship so they don't seem to know how to just be equal. It's like maybe Louis is playing at being an assertive dominant figure with Armand because he also doesn't know how to just "be." It's like, Claudia said, who are you without Lestat & I? Armand has always been in a cultish group think, so doesn't know how to handle their dynamic?

[@angelaholmes8888]

You are so right neither one know what a healthy relationship is

[@LordInsidious]

Dude, love these soo much, I've been seeing and noticing so much more, and this--(NON-SPOILER theorizing on Louis) I've been talking with a therapist friend of mine who said that when you go through extreme and repeat trauma, when you "live" with it to the point you have to go into Survival mode to keep going, your memory suffers GREATLY. I've personally experienced it recently and it reshaped how Louis views and tells his own history. Things he should remember but has forgotten or they've become altered throughout time's passing. I also love love love this idea of memory being unreliable, both in negative and beautiful ways. The odyssey of recollection. How Madeline recalled Claudia in a way that would have been physically impossible in reality--chef's kiss, chef's makeout sesh, with all the fixins. Can't wait for season 3 bro lol Straight up jonesin over here too😂😂

[@bradbradleyart]

ooo i love hearing your thoughts so much... Thank you for being so elaborate in your reviews!

[@booksgurrsandpurrs]

Okay, I'm going to be indulgent and just reply as I watch. I think there's another element to Santiago underneath his dislike for Louis. When we first see him he's on stage and opening sends a kiss to Armand as they're in the spotlight. Armand said in present day Dubai he was getting it on with the theatre troop. So I wonder if there's an element of lover scorned on the part of Santiago.

[@xtxpxhx]

you're right they so in the commentary i was shocked ...

[@psychedelicpegasus7587]

That's something Ben Daniels (Santiago) has said he worked into his character's back story. The actor is a gay man and he was asked if he could play Santiago straight by Rolin Jones (which is weird because vampires don't see companionship and love in binary terms at all). Following his preparation for the character (and he did a TON of research and background work. Ben Daniels is AMAZING!), the actor mentioned how Santiago HAD to be in love with Armand because that level of spitefulness and zeal for getting one over on him had to come from somewhere very deep.

[@booksgurrsandpurrs]

@psychedelicpegasus7587 Exactly! Especially the dinner scene. Santiago said something like, he doesn't get what Armand sees in him. I was thinking it's because he's thinking "what about me?!"

[@jaginaiaelectrizs6341]

I mean.... Santiago also literally flies up off the stage to get really up close and personal with Armand in the balcony the first time Louis and Claudia visit the Theatre, I always read that interaction nonplatonically....so when Armand told Daniel in Dubai that Armand had been physically intimate with Santiago my response was basically just "YES-I KNEW IT!". It's really subtle, but I'd say it definitely is there. Lol Santiago is frequently shown I think looking to grab Armand's attention, and observing while Armand's attention is being taken away or held by Louis completely snubbing Santiago instead. Armand also took Santiago's maker out of the picture for breaking the laws, and yet Armand just lets Louis continually break the laws over and over, so there's another layer for that animosity too.

[@glittermethis]

I think Santi is jealous of Louis, and he wants a little taste of Louis too. He’s pissed Louis didn’t respond to his peacocking around on stage. Louis should be wide awake at night, but he fell asleep during Santi monologue. The shade of it all😂

[@rachelz57]

also about what you said about your feelings on louis. personally i can't relate to anyone who hates any of these characters. Lestat and Louis are tied as my no. 1, and I'm a little less forgiving with armand, because he does't quite capture me the same way as the rest of the characters do, but i don't dislike anybody on this show. but my absolute favorite part about watching 10+ reactors is seeing how vastly different everyone is with what actions they criticize vs let slide, and how the biases of who their fave is, personal philosophy, and life experiences affect that. It's rare to see a show elicit so many wildly different opinions, and the only other one i can think of is succession.

[@angelaholmes8888]

I think Armand to me sees being a vampire as a curse that's why he refused to turn Madeleine

[@SaiyanSerenityV]

As a survivor I'm tired of seeing SA attempts used as a trope as well - in this particular instance I'm like eh, it forced Claudia's hand so it kind of worked but it does feel a little like a tool to escalate it quickly for pacing. It's not the worst example (I'm a huge fan of the books Game of Thrones is based on and I can't STAND watching the show because of the sheer number of SA they ADDED in that wasn't in the books at all, and served no purpose other than shock factor oooh lemme stop GoT gets me heated) it's just like if shows were less gratuitous with it and tropey with it perhaps scenes like this one would be more effective. I get you.

[@psychedelicpegasus7587]

I agree. It is played out, overused and needlessly gratuitous in other media. However, here it does serve the narrative in a specific way. I think giving Claudia the opportunity to save Madeleine from an experience that she herself suffered is somewhat interesting, maybe meant to be a kind of catharsis. I don't like it, but that might've been the reason for the scene. I did also find it interesting that we're watching a show about vampires, and they show humans who are supposed to be "good" or always the victims, that in reality had the capacity to be truly awful and do inhumane things. They're human men and women and they are harassing someone they perceive to be a Nazi, so on paper they're on the side of good, right? Do they actually believe she (Madeleine) has done anything wrong, or do they simply enjoy the feeling of punching down (victimising someone who is obviously very vulnerable which society has labelled a traitor)? The woman who is part of the group doesn't help and mocks Madeleine in this very specific and often gendered way, and I wonder, does she feel righteous and justified? I mean, they are capable of doing such despicable things or standing by while these things are done (I see you, man in the opposite shop. Glad Claudia got to you first!) but they are humans in a show about vampires, so we don't expect to see this. For all the horrors we've seen from the vampires, this scene shows horror and violence is also part of humanity and something humans are also capable of. I saw in some other reactions online that people couldn't see Madeleine as anything other than BAD, despite the background information she tells Claudia and it's almost like some of the audience is part of that mob who judges Madeleine. The lack of nuance and critical thinking is so absurd. I really did like that they showed this aspect of war time and what happens afterwards because in real life so many women did what they could to survive and were horribly punished by their own communities. It's dealt with so infrequently in media and stories, that this is the one somewhat redeeming reason for including it in the show.

[@SaiyanSerenityV]

@psychedelicpegasus7587 Yes, I agree with basically all of this - and I hadn't considered the angle of Claudia projecting her own assault onto the situation and saving Madeline giving her a sense of justice or catharsis, that's very very good! I think it is ultimately important to have SA portrayed in media sometimes, for a myriad of reasons (to connect with victims and help them feel seen/work through some of their trauma via fiction I mean I've done this, and depending on the context to teach viewers how these things can happen, raise awareness of the more nuanced SA situations like coercive consent/dubious consent) but especially with platforms like HBO I would really like to see it toned down and really only used with these reasons in mind. I want showrunners to really analyse WHY they feel it important to show it, and if that reason is truly justified. I'm very sick of it being used as a tool to give characters trauma for a sake of making them suffer (and give us filth like Sansa saying that she needed to go through it - WHICH SHE DIDN'T IN THE BOOK - to be who she is now BARFF). It's a topic that needs a lot of consideration and not to be used for the sake of a character arc. The over use of sexual violence in media really cheapens these more thoughtful and meaningful moments.

[@jaginaiaelectrizs6341]

​@@SaiyanSerenityV In this case, I would say it's also happening perhaps in this piece of fiction because it was something that really happened....historically. Unfortunately. To women similar to Madeleine. So you could say it may be "raising awareness" or doing it for "time-period accuracy" or such, and possibly to give Madeleine an in-character reason to find vampires not quite so monstrous and/or to find the idea of escaping her own mortal/human life appealing to her much like Louis had also found it theoretically appealing to him in S1 as well.

[@laurenraubaugh9542]

Keep the dynamic of both of Louis' relationships in mind too. He felt like he had no control with Lestat, who was the dominant personality, so he's shifting the roles with Armand. I also think a big part of why Louis is with Armand is to feel safe (and to keep Claudia safe) in a dangerous situation. Great comments, as always!

[@jayp9881]

27:08 im immediately brought back to season 1 ep 5 i think. The moment louis said that i sat back and was like " shut the fuk up" just like he said to lestat 😂

[@Obsessed.Since_2010]

I love your reactions so much! I love how you acknowledge the monsters these characters are while still giving them the respect and grace they deserve

[@jaginaiaelectrizs6341]

Thank You another excellent, insightful/passionate reaction , as always !! 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻 🙂 And my sympathies about those bright flashes of light at that one point, man. Your poor eyes!!-

[@Phoenixrisen2001]

I was waiting so hard for your Lestat reaction 😊

[@Deltadivaix]

Loved seeing your emotional rollercoaster on this episode

[@wildflowersinwinter]

Your reaction when Lestat showed up at the end was so real haha. I really appreciate your feelings towards the Madeleine situation. For some reason it didn’t bother me as much as Bruce, but I’m still unpacking why that is for me personally. The cafe scene fucked me UP. Just like you my emotions were all over the place. It’s interesting that even though Louis has told Armand he loves him before (ep. 3 or 4 I think?) it doesn’t seem like he really believes that until this moment with Madeleine. I had a silly feeling about Claudia being just like her Daddy Lou and falling in love with a ‘french white’ and then I saw Armand’s face and went well SHIT. He is so passive but he (im assuming?) froze all the people in the cafe for Santiago, so is that not still complicity on another level as well? It’s hard to say. Great reaction!

[@jaginaiaelectrizs6341]

For me, even though I still wasn't super thrilled about it being SA specifically and not just them trashing her store or something, I think it bothered me slightly less here than with what Bruce did in S1 because there were actually narratively supported reasons why it was happening. Because of what Madeleine did in particular[ in her past] that had gotten her branded as a traitor or whatever to begin with. And, yes, because it was also a reason for Claudia's hand to be sort of forced to dare to reveal her true nature to Madeleine even in spite of Armand's threatening Claudia not to. Whereas with Bruce? What was the reason or purpose at all, except just to drive Claudia back home to LouStat a little 'humbled' or 'changed' somehow as if that was a good thing??? IDEKK. (But, then again, I have also heard it argued that some people prefer it if it's as narratively random and/or senseless in fiction as it is in real life too-because they think putting too much onto it narratively can foster unhealthy attitudes or misunderstandings toward the real life issue too. Ssoo.. idk. I'm torn between two minds on it, slightly.) I think, ultimately, I would just like from time to time to be able to imagine situations where maybe fiction is better in some tiny way than reality-I'm not saying to erase it from all fiction entirely, I'm just saying I wish sometimes it didn't feel like it happened quite so overwhelmingly much more in fiction than it ever just doesn't happen in fiction. (If that makes any more sense)

[@juliec8090]

I truly love this episode but agree entirely about the attack on Madeleine. That said... her turning scene was absolutely beautiful. I love Madeleine and Claudia so much! 😭 Also, Ben Daniels (Santiago's actor) gave a great interview about IWTV and Santiago's motivations in the New York Times. VERY messy stuff. You should read it when you're done with the season! Love your reactions as usual!

[@jess.alcantara]

I love that you pointed out that Santiago had a motive! It may be hard to see it because he's going against Louis and Claudia, who we've been attached to and feel for since season 1, but he did have a motive that made sense, even if the result is absolutely horrible. Also, thank you for pointing out the use o r*pe as a 'character development' sorry excuse. I personally didn't feel that that's what they did here, but it's so cheat and overused in so many stories. Let's stop. The excitement for Lestat is everything! You've put into words what I felt! I was excited but I didn't wanna be because I KNEW shit was gonna hit the fan. But LESTAT!!!!

[@xtxpxhx]

for what is worth cluadia SA wasn't in the books and it was controversial for it as well.. i think you're absolutely right there's a conversation to be had here. it's almost like a female character cannot explore her potential unless.. and i mean it does happen but it also irks me bc it's in part excusing it.

[@aimeedinov7029]

Thank you for your comments in regard to SA being used in media, I feel like I’m harping on my annoyance with its overuse. I enjoyed season 1 so much, but season 2 is such an extreme emotional roller coaster.

[@moderndaymedusa82]

14:55 I think I read someone else saying that Daniel was bringing up the vermouth because Armand said that Lestat tasted like vermouth and annihilation. I think there's some kind of implication that Armand was projecting...can't remember the exact comment any more from the other poster.

[@em7890-o7l]

really love and appreciate how thoughtful and nuanced your reviews are - feel like I'm always seeing more dimensions after watching your videos (like your beautiful reflections on Madeleine and Louis, and Madeleine and Claudia) :)

[@auntvesuvi3872]

Thank you, Raymond! 🩸 And happy Thanksgiving and/or Indigenous Peoples Day to you and yours. 🍠

[@moderndaymedusa82]

27:45 I love how you defend Claudia. Louis was mean for calling her a burden. I'm honestly not sure whether he meant it or not. But if he thought he was manipulating, Armand then shouldn't it be a big old red flag that he recognized that Armand felt that Claudia was a burden or a threat to what they had. Someone needs to address that elephant in the China shop, right the fuck now. It reminds me of people dating someone with kids but they don't like the kids so they are mean/harmful to them. But Louis needs to be popped upside the head because if he knew that was what Armand needed to hear, then he also knew that he was CHOOSING someone over her yet again.

[@mitchmatt6002]

Seeing you react to those final scenes was certainly worth the wait, lmao, and probably matched me on excitement and anticipation levels! 🤣 Lestat has no right looking that good after a murder attempt, lol! The fact it followed a scene that started out healing and upbeat, only to end in betrayal and dread, is so typical of this show, and yet I was shocked (bc I haven't read the books)! It was lovely to see Claudia & Madeleine happy and relaxed, even if Louis was squirming over his feelings of love for Lestat being mistakenly attributed to Armand by his well-meaning fledgling! I liked the way Claudia looked after her companion during the turning scene, and that Madeleine finally got to find love after such a sad history! Rashid's Talamasca connections were a fun twist, and the Dubai scenes can always be counted on for delicious tension and drama! Glad you enjoyed, FT! 🌮

[@scarletshroud]

Totally agree about the SA being overused as a plot device generally, seems cheap and isn't necessary here. I don’t believe either are in the books if I recall correctly (been a while since I read them). One of the few flaws in the show overall imo. Still a great episode. You were expecting the worst outcome from the turning and then it was fine and they were happy and so were you and i felt so bad for you. Armand is, well, fascinating to me. Great character with a lot of depth. The maker/fledging bond - dud Claudia and Lestat have it? Louis wouldn't have known really. We don't have Lestat's perspective yet. And not sure Claudia would have written about it in her journals. Something to ponder.

[@AnxietyRat]

Yeah I mean I'm not a book reader but from what book readers have told me about the maker/fledgling Bond... It usually just produces a strong emotional connection between the two... Whether it be intense love or intense hate... It kind of seems like those are the two emotions that things fall on... Armand in the show is clearly convinced that fledglings ALWAYS fall on the hate side, because that is the information that he has been told, from what I understand... but I think Louis disagrees with that mindset quite a bit... But yeah the show kind of leaves it up in the air regarding Claudia. It looks like she didn't explicitly write anything down about it in her journal other than it's very clear that Louis has a different type of bond with Lestat than Claudia and Lestat do... But does that difference mean that she didn't really have a bond with him? Idk.

[@asavagegarden]

i'm just starting the video but i wanted to say something about what you said in your intro. in my opinion louis has never weaponized his trauma, but he has used other people's traumas to hurt them. i don't know if you misspoke or not but i do not agree with it. i actually think no character has used their trauma as a weapon, at least not with bad intent. not even lestat when he told about his loneliness or armand when he told louis about his human life.

[@foxtaco]

You got a timestamp for me big dawg..I acutally recored this 4 weeks ago and can't recall what I said specifically

[@asavagegarden]

@@foxtaco you start at 6:05 but the specific line is at around 6:30

[@foxtaco]

Bet bet let me check real quick then ill tell you what I was on at the time 🙏🏿

[@foxtaco]

I see what you were saying and yea maybe my delivery wasn't the most on point here..and I was getting a Lil bit into a ramble 🙏🏿

[@asavagegarden]

@@foxtaco no worries! but i needed to comment on that.

[@booksgurrsandpurrs]

Bless you FOX TACO! 🦊🌮🎉🎉🎉🎉

[@foxtaco]

@@booksgurrsandpurrs 🙏🏿😁 enjoy friend

[@rlunafernandez8951]

Hey, love your discourse and observations. Here’s some show facts you may not know. Louis character as the reticent, soulful vamp was Anne Rices. For the adaptation you’ve been watching he was made a creole, pimp and exclusively gay. Anne R. Approved this adapted version but did not write it. Thank the extraordinary screenwriters and Rolind Jones the fellow heading this project. 🌀⚡️

[@elioharrington]

I think the scene of Madeleine getting attacked very much had an intention, as hard as it was to watch. The fact that the first time she sees Claudia as a vampire is after she's attacked by these men, it makes Claudia less of a monster by comparison. She's a monster dripping in blood, yet she's the only person in that room to show Madeleine human decency.

[@AidahMuhammad]

Im of two minds when it comes to grape in media. Yes its over played and writers need to do better at character development and plot choices. On the other hand art imitates life. Out of 100 woman unfortunately 40% have experienced physical and sexual assault. Until the number comes down were all going to see it in media

[@AnxietyRat]

Yeah, there are a couple of women in the writer's room so I guess it does kinda make sense, in a way. Hannah Moscovitch is the one who wrote both episode 5s of each season. So she is clearly very VERY good at writing domestic arguments that are absolutely cutting dialogue wise and also violence wise... It's not an easy thing to write but she does not shy away from the horrors.

[@jaginaiaelectrizs6341]

22:41 - Truthfully? Armand has really only had, like one-hundred-and-some years or so to try and figure something else out(200-ish yrs tops), between when Lestat was first transformed in mid to late 18th Century Paris and when Louis arrived a century-ish later in post-war Paris. But that's assuming Armand even personally recognizes any possible wrongness in it or any need to figure anything else out other than &/or beyond just that, to begin with. (I mean slavery wasn't abolished in France until 1794, and then it was reinstated again in 1802 pretty much until the 1840s finally re-abolished it. There were clearly very different views on what was believed right or wrong, back in the day, in 1700s France....nevermind earlier, or elsewhere.) And these were a hundred pre-1950s years, too; look up how recently marital "grape" and the physical "discipline" of a wife was criminalized(in America the physical "chastisement" of a wife has only been barred since the 1870s and marital "grape" wasn't illegal until sometime after the 1970s), and consider just how recently psychology stopped being viewed as 'pseudoscience' too(I mean even in the 1990s people were only just barely starting to take psychology seriously and recognize the affects of psychological trauma as legitimately valid issues)-so by what measure or standard exactly was Armand really supposed to be equipped to recognize the potential problems with those kinds of a relationship dynamics between himself and Louis either(?). And before that Armand spent multiple hundreds of years where he was actually not free to figure anything else out, if you recall Louis taking a dig at Armand in 1970s San Fran about the vampires who murdered Armand's vampire-daddy forcing Armand to forget Armand's male appendage for 240 years or such. (He might not be stupid, but intelligence has little to do with the knowledge or means or tools and such that someone might or might-not have available to to them.) Not to mention in just a few years short of 80yrs the LouMand relationship is STILL messy A.F. even all the way in 2020s Dubai and clearly they still don't have all their shtufff fully figured out yet even then. And even for humans it can take several times longer to figure things out than it took for whatever messed someone up to happen to them in the first place.😅😅 How can we humans begin to imagine what effects being actively traumatized or controlled for somewhere between 200 to 300 yrs might have on somebody?? How can we really try and judge how long it would or should take someone to get things figured out properly after that? 😅 😶 ..idekk.🤷🤷 ((Similarly, I think I've gotta consider the world that Louis has lived in and what all exactly was/wasn't normalized within it at those times, too; I can't totally fault him for not having unlearned certain things yet that many humans to this very day are still unlearning. Not saying that means it's actually okay, just saying...I can sort of understand where he's coming from, and why he doesn't always handle things in the most ideal ways he maybe could/should.))

[@jaginaiaelectrizs6341]

( Ultimately, I guess what I'm getting at here is that I feel you completely on all of those super conflicted not sure which stance or side to take sometimes type feelings!!!! )

[@PercySnackson]

Armand is always trying to recreate the master/slave situation he had with Marius beause that's what he learned "love" is--a pedophile who posed as his rescuer and god while molesting him & pimping him out. So yes, he willingly built this dynamic with Louis AND it's extremely unhealthy. Pretty much a form of self-harm. Also the "now you're Armand's---or Armand is mine" dialogue is about who wears the pants basically; after Lestat's abuse Louis never wanted to be the weak one in a relationship again. So he pursues this dominant role partly as a way to feel safe. PS I appreciate and share your exhaustion with SA as a plot device; but you might be glad to know that element is actually toned way tf down for this adaptation. Anne Rice had a rape fetish that came through a lot in her non-porn work, and which often messed up the story by throwing sane human behavior out the window in favor of "porn logic".

[@Phoenixrisen2001]

Just drop it Sir lol

[@foxtaco]

Bet I got you right now

[@moderndaymedusa82]

34:16 This is my 2nd time seeing the scene you just watched with the newspaper clippings. None of it made sense before...the telescopic lens, the color film, and all of them crying out in unison. Makes perfect sense now but upon first viewing it meant nothing. I hate it 😔😔😔

[@Leannbby]

Book Louis was the worst lol I always disliked him, and while he wasn’t a pimp.. he was worse, a plantation owner. And his character is wildly manipulative. Jacob has somewhat lessened it but he def still is lol

[@xandaera]

I completely agree about the SA stuff-I was very upset about them using it as a plot device in season one, and when this happened I was very like, wtf really? I think it’s lazy, insensitive writing. Also proof imo of a man-led writer’s room. I love this show, but those two scenes felt cheap and lazy

[@jayp9881]

Oh i love this ish 😂😂

[@t.j._fury]

For the algorithm 🎉🎉

[@angelaholmes8888]

So far in the series claudia and Madeleine relationship seems the most heathy to me

[@silkshines00]

re: the sex scene, Armand wouldn't be with Louis if he wasn't into that shit. I read that scene as just an insight into how the sexuality between them was in Paris. Louis was excited about his plans, it felt like Armand's plans were going well too, he was excited so he got horny, as simple as that.

[@jaginaiaelectrizs6341]

Armand's facial expressions and body-language in that scene just don't really seem to me like it was actually as simple as that, to me, though. I mean, Armand was trying to talk with Louis, and Louis was pretty much refusing to even look at Armand or really engage with anything Armand was actually saying and literally even went so far as to tell Armand to shut up and get out unless Armand stripped and turned over. Just because somebody genuinely wants to be with someone doesn't mean that can't be leveraged to coerce them into being with someone in ways they maybe don't actually want because of fear that it has to be either like that even with the reluctance or discomfort and all or be nothing altogether.

[@theindoorkites]

Assad Zaman said in an interview that the “face down in the coffin” scene was highlighting Louis the Pimp and Armand the Ex Sex Slave and how fcked up their dynamic is.

[@annehammontree9092]

Thank you for your comments about the assault. I'm so tired of the trope it's become. Why has it become the fallback origin of a woman that's powerful? Why can't there just be a powerful female character?

[@emileeangel33]

You: “It’s the goat!” :(

[@foxtaco]

👑🐐THA GOOOOOAAAATT😭😭😭😭

[@jldavis709]

I definitely agree on the overuse of SA in media. The Claudia one is season 1 wasn't really necessary, and I think the writers figured that out after. This Madeline one doesn't bother me as much for several reasons. One, I think the writers didn't want to just drop the idea without it actually affecting Claudia more than just "making her stronger" after the season 1 mess up so they brought it back as a way for Claudia to take control a little bit. She couldn't save herself but she could save Madeline. Secondly, it was a serious enough attack to force Claudia to show her vampire hand. She wasn't being stupid or frivolous in telling Madeline she was a vampire- she had to. It makes the audience more on her side bacause she's not just breaking Armand's rules for no reason. And lastly, those French people attacking Madeline see her "crime" of sleeping with the German soldier as a sexual one, so it makes sense that they think the punishment should be the same.

[@booksgurrsandpurrs]

To finding the X 🍻😭

[@hannahochoa6388]

So both the SA that happened to Claudia AND the near SA for Madeline were never part of the books so I was honestly very disappointed to see so much SA in this show that never even existed in the books you’re absolutely right it’s merely a plot device that they keep using don’t get me wrong I adore this show I watch all the reactors but if I’m being honest HUGELY disappointed by the use of SA as plot device ESPECIALLY because they didn’t have to it was not part of the source material they simply threw it in as “character development “ honestly shameful at best

[@hannahochoa6388]

To add to this Armand being a sex slave was always part of the books and I hated that but hey it happens and made sense especially in the time period he was from but still sucked anyway I digress I just super hate the use of SA for plot device or character development it pisses me off especially because I have been SA’d myself and I can tell you for a fact that is not how that works it doesn’t somehow make you more mature or any of that bs it hurts you in a multitude of ways none of which have positives so whatever ignorant asshat started this it needs to end I’m sick of this misrepresentation in media ok rant over lol

[@marchvolt488]

probably the only characters in this show you can say you like without a thousand people disagreeing are miss lily and real rashid lol 🌮

[@foxtaco]

Facts..people can haye me for it but I will scream lestats name from the rooftops 👑🐐!!!

[@glittermethis]

Don’t forget out Ms. Bricktop and Doris with the one good leg!

[@moderndaymedusa82]

I always go hard against Armand but I can admit, he's a wonderfully made character. I blame Tumblr for my behavior. The tumblr girls love Armand and absolve him of everything and I know I can't say anything there or I'll have psychotic teeny boppers in my messages calling me the hard er. Lmaooooo. So I just pile on him in your comment section instead.

[@OllihuAkbar]

RIP Hannibal?

[@foxtaco]

Nah I'm on episode 9 currently 🙃 I'm getting ahead with my shows on patreon first

[@rondickey7116]

I've always have a problem with characters, having to go threw sexual assault to get wise. That was my problem with season 1 with Claudia. Armand gave them up. Armand is up to something.

[@foxtaco]

@@rondickey7116 we can talk about it im completely caught up

[@Phoenixrisen2001]

This is not the book its inspired by the book so many changes means the way you feel about the characters change. Thats why i cant read comments by those who read the book they want to control how we view this.

[@jaginaiaelectrizs6341]

Even in the books, people can feel very very differently about the characters from one book to another. But sometimes readers forget that, recency bias or something, maybe. But..honestly....I don't think the tv series is THAT totally different from the books, myself. It feels more like imagining what if the things or characters from the books had x or y or z factor instead of or in addition to the factors in the book rather than actually imagining something totally and completely different or divorced from the book entirely. But maybe that's just me, idkk.

[@marchvolt488]

17:10 completely valid! Claudia storyline too, there are a thousand ways to develop a character and it seems like writers always take shortcuts by making female characters go through this, it's so exhausting

[@callingmemommy]

Claudia’s rape wasn’t in the books, and the directors used it as a way to ‘grow her up’ (said in an interview/bts), its gross and one of my only negatives from the show. Rape should never be the plot twist.

[@moderndaymedusa82]

16:28 I say this all the time!!! It's overdone as a way to show a female protagonist is strong or to make her character grow or to make a male character have a purpose. I'm sick of it and I think in the future I'm going to stop watching and stop reading if people use these tired ass tropes instead of being better writers. SA is in waaaay too much of the media we consume. I feel like in a way it diminishes to what happens to victims in real life.

[@elisabethbickford7037]

Armand is the one who enjoys being submissive. And I will say most people I know that are into BDSM say that the submissive is the with all the power and can stop it anytime.

[@moderndaymedusa82]

Talk about it! It's cheaply done. It's not necessary. Neither SA (either realized or attempted) is in the book or the 1994 movie. And the fact that these attacks are against the two main women shown is trifling. As much as I love this show, it is unkind to women. In the book, Grace is unnamed and I don't recall her being explored. Neither is the mom. But we get a cruel mother for Louis, who is so mean we don't even mourn her when she's gone. We get a sister who is adored but ultimately turns her back on Louis. Fans don't like either of these women. We get Antoinette who's not in the book as a woman. She's the saddest side chick on earth. She's disfigured, loses herself to Lestat (goodbye promising singing career), turned and burned alive. Daciana- Burns alive Ukranian or Russian lady-Beheaded Lily-Drained offscreen Tell me one woman in this story who is left unscathed? They straight up create women just to kill them off. And then in the midst of all these unimportant women we get Claudia and Madeline getting assaulted for nothing. Their stories are fleshed out enough without it!!

[@marmarmarmalade]

I think at the time, during Paris, Louis needed to feel as if he had some sort of power over his relationship. Cause he felt so small and powerless when he was with Lestat.