Introducing the French Bassoon

Nowadays, the bassoon you are likely to see in an orchestra is the German bassoon. But did you know there is also a French bassoon? Chris Rawley introduces us to the differences between the two and why for certain repertoire, the French bassoon is ideal.
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[@oae]

Which do you prefer? French or German?

[@TheSantiAcademy2024]

French.

[@halimkbas2883]

The answer is always both. Do you like cheesecakes or brownies?

[@toxiboi5771]

german

[@Saxman_sam]

The correct answer is German.

[@TheSantiAcademy2024]

@@Saxman_sam Well, French Bassoon is my favorite, but you're right.

[@robertospindola9012]

In Brazil there are only three instrumentalists who still play the French Bassoon, this instrument was no longer used from the year 1998, after the death of the French Bassoon teacher Noel Devos in the year 2018 the French Bassoon was definitively abandoned in Brazil, only remaining as instrumentalist Antônio Ramoska, Adiron Marcos and I (Roberto Spindola)

[@francoisvillon1300]

Que pena :(

[@darthtleilaxu4021]

C'est bien dommage. 😞 🖐️🇨🇵

[@joseleonido3479]

It’s very sad that you’re one of thenlast

[@InstrumentManiac]

This is fascinating! I was always confused by the two and this explains and showcases the differences in the French. Also holy cow hight notes!! 🤯 Great video 👏

[@jayden1875]

hi

[@txsphere]

I wish he had played the opening solo to the Rite of Spring. I have always been curious what it sounded like on a French bassoon which is what Stravinsky was writing for. Loved the duet at the end.

[@chrisrawley-bassoon4020]

There are quite a few recordings of the Rite of Spring being played on a French Bassoon. I’ll post some links here. I think it’s worth me clarifying, Russians have always played German Bassoons. As a young man and a student Stravinsky almost certainly never heard a French Bassoon. He would however have heard one when in Paris for the premieres of The Firebird and Petrouchka. He wrote the Rite of Spring in Russia. Which sound he had in mind is a topic of debate amongst bassoon players. But yes, at the premiere it would have been a French Bassoon. It is often said that the Rite of Spring solo is easier on a French Bassoon. This is simply not the case. Whilst getting the first note to speak is less scary, the finger patterns are SIGNIFICANTLY more complicated. These are my thoughts on the matter at least! But I very much like hearing what other people think! Here are some of the recordings I mentioned kzbin.info/www/bejne/farHf6aclqargJY kzbin.info/www/bejne/bHKom6Wum7V1rrM kzbin.info/www/bejne/mJe2lGeDmLGtna8 kzbin.info/www/bejne/rH7KmniXbJx7fsk kzbin.info/www/bejne/nn2baKZraLeomNk

[@RiceWitch-dingus-400]

@@chrisrawley-bassoon4020 sounds like a french horn!

[@francoisvillon1300]

I would love a video on French contras. They are SO rare!

[@chrisrawley-bassoon4020]

kzbin.info2mkCAOdabpk?feature=share

[@robinhillyard6187]

I learned on a French instrument and then a few years later switched to the German system, which I've played ever since. One of my teachers was the last great French bassoonist in England: Cecil James. The German system is so much easier to play (except the high notes) and does project much better. But the French bassoon does have a very sweet sound.

[@wdashwor]

Fascinating! The French bassoon sounds much more exotic and colorful to my ears. The Stravinsky Duet sounds especially good with the French. Thanks for a most enlightening video!

[@willmorris8198]

I play on a German system bassoon but I I have wanted to try out the French bassoon for a while. I love the bright sound it has. For most orchestral playing, I would probably prefer the German due to projection but for solo work I think I would prefer the French system because I think it has a more beautiful sound.

[@idraote]

agreed

[@bda5281]

I was surprised at how obvious the difference was. They almost sound like completely different instruments.

[@LinusBerglund]

They are different instruments. As the video says: they even have a different fingerings. They are pretty similar in the lowest octaves, but I couldn't make it through even a simple piece without messing most of it up. Sure, the skills are transferable, but from what I gather the difference is much larger than - say - that of the french and German clarinet.

[@Nara1Family2Rulez3]

I guess there’s also the Heckel World Keys system bassoon which sorta basically has a French long joint and a German wing/tenor joint. Heard we’ve had these here in Belgium before, since were in between France and Germany.

[@chrisrawley-bassoon4020]

Yes. The bore is what makes the biggest difference and the Heckel world system has a German bore so sounds the same as the rest of their instruments. Boosey and Hawkes made instruments with a french fingering system and a German bore for a while

[@oiartsun]

Bassoon is one of my favorite instruments in orchestral music. Now I have to decide which design I prefer... or do I? It seems clear to me they both have their strengths, and I don't prefer one design over the other; rather I like the approach seen in the archival BBC photo shown: incorporate both into an orchestra to play to the strengths of each design.

[@chrisrawley-bassoon4020]

The Rite of Spring I’ve posted this as a reply to another comment but am posting here for anyone who is interested in my take on what is most definitely the most iconic bassoon solo. There are quite a few recordings of the Rite of Spring being played on a French Bassoon. I’ll post some links here. I think it’s worth me clarifying, Russians have always played German Bassoons. As a young man and a student, Stravinsky almost certainly never heard a French Bassoon. He would however have heard one when in Paris for the premieres of The Firebird and Petrouchka. He wrote the Rite of Spring in Russia. Which sound he had in mind is a topic of debate amongst bassoon players. But yes, at the premiere it would have been a French Bassoon. It is often said that the Rite of Spring solo is easier on a French Bassoon. This is simply not the case. Whilst getting the first note to speak is a BIT less scary, the finger patterns are SIGNIFICANTLY more complicated. These are my thoughts on the matter at least! But I very much like hearing what other people think! Here are some of the recordings I mentioned kzbin.info/www/bejne/farHf6aclqargJY kzbin.info/www/bejne/bHKom6Wum7V1rrM kzbin.info/www/bejne/mJe2lGeDmLGtna8 kzbin.info/www/bejne/rH7KmniXbJx7fsk kzbin.info/www/bejne/nn2baKZraLeomNk

[@christophergreen3809]

Some of the instrumentalists that I accompanied on piano were bassoonists (2 total). Had a lot of interesting musical experiences in college!

[@jpsned]

I play a German bassoon and was quite intrigued when I learned that another type of bassoon existed. I've never heard the French bassoon played before--thank you! (N.B.: Regarding the 1950s bassoon method book having fingering charts for both German and French bassoons--back about 15 years ago when I was taking lessons, I bought the Weissenborn Practical Method for bassoon. The fingering chart was German on one side, and French on the other. 🙂)

[@chrisrawley-bassoon4020]

There's a few old editions like that. If you look further down the comments I put some links to the Rite of Spring being played on French system instruments.

[@jpsned]

Thank you! @@chrisrawley-bassoon4020

[@itamarbar9580]

5:31 okay but that high E? Holy shit.

[@andycordy5190]

Wow! That has transformed my feelings about an instrument that I instinctively found appealing (Peter Firmin's Ivor the Engine💕 and the Stravinsky, what a revelation!).

[@katherinespencer1900]

I enjoyed this video and found out lots about my favourite instrument. Well done wissy ! Another triumph x

[@isaacmcareavey237]

loved this video, by far the best video on the differences between the two, I'd love to get my hand's on Chris's bassoon collection as he has so many interesting instruments!

[@WHISTLEPEG]

Excellent video. Thank you

[@elizabethlam1049]

5:52 the exact same face I make when I can’t get to the tenor E 😂

[@scottvigder1264]

I will prefer the sonority, and expressiveness of the French bassoon until my dying day and I have played and made reeds for the german instrument since 1976.

[@hildegerdhaugen7864]

Love both.

[@vladartov2817]

Thank you!

[@geoffreyraleigh1674]

Both equally I think. Thank you for the upload!

[@jenniferm6042]

Gerald Corey and Maurice Allard would probably be very proud of this content 😊

[@brucealanwilson4121]

I have read that this was one reason for the Sarrusaphone.

[@idraote]

I think they are two very different instruments. The French is probably better suited for chamber music or solos. P.s. kudos to the gentleman for explaining so well.

[@laurencefinston7036]

Thank you for this interesting and informative video. Another important point about bassoons, like other woodwinds, is that they are very expensive. Only flutes (made of brass and/or silver) are available at low to moderate prices. As an arranger, I try to learn to play as many instruments as possible at least somewhat, even if a single person couldn't possibly master them all. I particularly love double reeds (especially the oboe and English horn, if I may say so), but the prices are just astronomical. A problem with all kinds of modern instruments is that they were designed to be _loud_ in order to fill large concert halls. This is the opposite of my requirements, since I only play in a small room. Not a small venue, literally a room in my apartment with neighbors. None of my current neighbors have ever complained, even about the violin or the accordeon, for which I am very grateful. I would much rather have an instrument designed to have a beautiful sound at a low to moderate volume.

[@DrNatemiester]

5:52 perfect Look to sum up the emotion.

[@BCSchmerker]

+OrchestraEnlighten *Both bassoon systems have their place in modern chamber music.* I consider the French as more agile across the diapason, the German as slightly more powerful for the low end.

[@JustClaude13]

I think I like the French bassoon a little better. I'd like to try a bassoon, but the price on even a cheap Chinese model is a little stunning.

[@LinusBerglund]

That high e on the French bassoon sounds soooooo easy.

[@sifridbassoon]

Very interesting! I have never even touched a French bassoon. Personally, it sounds like you are playing on a plastic reed. 😂 But if it makes it easier to play Rite of Spring, I'll try it. Also, I'd love to see/hear a French contra. There is a German company that makes reproductions of historical double reed instruments. They make a classical/romantic contrabassoon (supposedly what Beethoven would have written for). It has a HUGELY LONG bottom joint. Sort of like the theorbo of the bassoon family. LOL

[@TimMorrison-ul4rb]

Interesting and nicely done. Grab a coffee, have a break.

[@Desmaad]

I wonder if there's a way to make a bassoon that combines the strengths of the French and German versions?

[@davidteitelbaum7335]

8:27 Looks like a Sarrusophone, which is, of course, an instrument of the bassoon family, made of metal.

[@puckrock]

It's more closely related to the saxophone family, as it has a conical brass body with fingering that is almost identical to the saxophone. It's close enough that Sax sued Gautrot for patent infringement.

[@TheBardsCorner]

In French, Basson vs Fagott, which one is German or French? Thanks! Incredibly interesting video! Concerning fingering charts, are the two systems very different? In modern orchestras is the German still the main choice? When a student begins, what are they taught on?

[@chrisrawley-bassoon4020]

Hi Michele. Basson = French, Fagott = German. The fingering has some similarities and some very significant differences. Nearly all modern orchestras play on German instruments. The Orchestra Philharmonique de Strasbourg and Orchestre Philharmonique Luxembourg play on French Bassoons. Some orchestras in France have a team of French players, and a team of German Players. Examples of this include L'Orchestre Philarmonique de Radio France, Orchestra National de France and Opera Naitonal de Paris. Some French orchestras play exclusively on German bassoons, including Orchestra de Paris and Orchestra National de Lyon. In France and Luxembourg I guess the instrument you learn will depend on your teacher and your musical influences. Across the rest of the world 99.99% of people will learn the German system first.

[@TheBardsCorner]

@@chrisrawley-bassoon4020 thank you so much! Could you point me at a chart that highlights fingering differences between the two systems?

[@itamarbar9580]

I need to write a concerto for the french bassoon. Can it reach a G#, a major 3rd above the high E of the Ravel G Major concerto?

[@chrisrawley-bassoon4020]

There are people that can do it, but it's incredibly extreme writing. The legendary Maurice Allard refused to play anything higher than an F (for good reason in my opinion.)

[@GaloOrtizMusic]

Now I need to write something for French Basoon....

[@abrigospardos]

That's really interesting, thanks! The only thing is that I'd like to point out a typo: "Alborado" is not a word in Spanish, it's "Alborada" (femenine).

[@chrisrawley-bassoon4020]

Whoops! You're quite right

[@Qu0thTheRaven]

8:29 that book needs rebinding

[@d.harrison1570]

"Let me just watch a minute or two to hear the difference in sounds." Ten minutes later; "It's over already?!?"

[@Saxman_sam]

Bro doesn't have a high e key on that old heckel (maybe a 3k series) but I will always be a firm believer that older heckel bassoons are the best sounding instruments (5k-9k)

[@darthtleilaxu4021]

Bonjour. Merci de faire connaître le basson français. 🙂

[@chrisrawley-bassoon4020]

Je vous en prie. J’espère vraiment que nous verrons plus de gens jouer de cet instrument magique dans les années à venir !

[@darthtleilaxu4021]

@@chrisrawley-bassoon4020 Ma fille en pratique au Conservatoire de Paris. C'est grâce à elle que j'ai découvert cet instrument. Bonne route à vous. 🙂🖐️🇨🇵

[@chrisrawley-bassoon4020]

@@darthtleilaxu4021 Eh bien, je suis sûr qu'elle est bien meilleure que moi, mais je suis heureux d'avoir joué un petit rôle dans la diffusion de cet instrument au public britannique et au monde entier en ligne.

[@brucealanwilson4121]

Aren't Wagner, wasn't that why he commissioned the heckelphone or baritone oboe? And where does the Lupophone come in?

[@chrisrawley-bassoon4020]

You're right, Wagner did commission the Heckelpohne. But he never lived to hear it, so the Heckel family took it to Richard Strauss and asked him what he thought. That's why it appears in Salome, Elektra, Alpine Symphony and Joseph's Legend. The Lupophone is a 20th century invention, partly because Heckel don't make heckelphones any more. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lupophon

[@brucealanwilson4121]

@@chrisrawley-bassoon4020 As a low woodwind specialist, what do you think of it?

[@chrisrawley-bassoon4020]

@@brucealanwilson4121 I'll be honest, I've never heard one live. I think I'm right in saying that there are currently 4 heckelphones in the UK. Two are privately owned, one is owned by the City of Birmingham Symphony and the other by the Royal Opera House. Therefore, we are well covered when one is needed. I think the lupophone has caught on a bit in the USA though I can't swear to it.

[@brucealanwilson4121]

The Chicago Lyric Opera owns a heckelphone; a collegeclassmate of mine who was (now retired) an oboist there got to play it. Another who was (again, now retired, I think) a violist with the CSO performed the Hindemith Trio.

[@WalyB01]

Sacre intro makes sense on the French one.

[@ab-zg8pt]

I love it - it sounds like a swarm of angry wasps.

[@thesceptic1018]

How good is that Stravinsky

[@benjamingillespie8137]

I will never complain about my bassoon fingerings…

[@clintow]

There are few instruments that sound more "Stravinsky" than the French bassoon

[@michaelbishop.]

Who knew Elgar played bassoon with Putin?

[@rafaelfernandeslopesdeoliv1700]

Damn, it does look a lot like him.

[@michaelbishop.]

@@rafaelfernandeslopesdeoliv1700 Destined to be a difficult wind instrument?

[@uhhhsure2055]

How I wish the French bassoon was the standard. Sounds beautiful!

[@instrumentalheadquarters7062]

To be honest I hear a huge difference and I prefer the French. They should build a more modern system bassoon that is french.

[@baroquewinds]

They do! Ducasse make a French bore bassoon with Heckel keywork that they call a ‘Belgian system’ bassoon. That said, I think the French system does have its advantages and disadvantages, just as the Heckel system does. It just depends what your priorities are as a musician.

[@jimmorgan5612]

I've played French bassoon here in the USA for 50 years and I still believe that given the opportunity for audiences to hear both instruments playing the same orchestral piece, the would pick the French instrument.

[@myhandlehasbeenmishandled]

great, now I'm feeling bad for French bassoonists

[@homeofcreation]

I am doomed with a German Bassoon

[@faeriesmak]

I would like to be doomed with any bassoon. I played in college until I graduated and had to turn in the bassoon that I was using. I have been bassoon-less ever since.

[@Jesuswinsbirdofmichigan]

July 1, 2023✝️

[@galemo344gd7]

I prefer the German one, the German one sounds mor natural and clean, the French one has a bit of a weird vibration sound, if you can even understand what I’m saying