Introducing the Sackbut

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Sagbutt? Sacabuche?! Shackbussh? ...Shagbolt?
What is this thing and why does it look and sound so different from its modern cousin, the trombone? Phil Dale explains it all in our latest 'Introducing...' video.
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[@EdMcF1]

There's a busker (and his dog) on the London Underground who plays a sackbut, and when he rides the train, he tries to teach his dog to play it, I asked him how it was going and he said it took about an hour to get from Barking to Tooting.

[@oae]

This is genius.

[@Chompchompyerded]

Oh my God that's bad. Bad as in Good.

[@FReam-qr6kp]

He has remarkable patience.

[@kishascape]

The 3 shaped upper lip makes proper embouchure difficult :3

[@DanielMasmanian]

oh the shame.

[@jackx4311]

Speaking as a retired engineering technician, what astonishes me is that metal workers could make tubing as straight and accurate as required to make a sackbut work. I mean, you have to make a tube, several feet long, as straight as a billiard cue, perfectly round and with a constant diameter - and then make another tube which is not just a perfect free-sliding fit, but capable of providing an airtight seal, too. Even with modern production equipment, that's a tall order - but with the tools they had 500 years ago? It's mind-blowing!

[@andrewwigglesworth3030]

They were made by aliens.

[@davetodd4906]

Yep. I think they used a mandrel.

[@andrewwigglesworth3030]

@@davetodd4906 Which planet do Mandrels come from and can they build me a pyramid too?

[@joaquinonthebass]

And it's often the people who don't understand these complexities remotely making fun of how dumb they were back then.

[@JohnWaldron-cm7ce]

All hand made using mandrels for forming and an early, fire heated soldering iron-NOT easy-John in Texas

[@gregoryborton6598]

Going to have a great time telling people I play the 'shagbolt' when they ask me what instrument I play.

[@logancampbell7924]

I've done this for years lol.

[@Ithirahad]

Well, they'll at least get that you're blowing something I suppose

[@sandecox6031]

😂😂😂❤️

[@sandecox6031]

That will empress the ladies

[@Hrafnhistorical]

I'm wetting myself over the image that, in Henry VIII's court, every time the king said or did something a bit rude, there was always someone on hand to make a trombone noise.

[@vickielawson3114]

That sounds like a problem. Have you considered adult diapers?

[@Desmaad]

@CCRider Or the gibbet.

[@stephaniecanada9152]

Turns out it was my g×8-9 granfathers the Bassano family 😂 I'm here to learn about the instruments they played

[@mikezinn7212]

Went to a concert in Westminster Abbey in the 1990s with His/Her Majesties sackbutts and cornetts - Fantastic! Thanks for your information.

[@idraote]

The first notes of Monteverdi's l'Orfeo, played by a team of sackbuts, belong to my all-time favourite musical moments. And it's exactly their lack of "trombone's brassiness" so to say, that makes it so special.

[@XxarnyxXx]

Hehe He said butt

[@iwavns]

He also said shag...

[@btat16]

@@iwavns Luckily we don’t call it the ShagButt

[@cecilyerker]

Sackbut ASMR 🤣 Sincerely, this man’s speaking is very relaxing. Even the playing is relaxing!

[@JeiShian]

I'm impressed at how he got through this without giggling like I had. hehehehe

[@jauch0]

I once played a bass sackbut in an early music ensemble. During this time, my mom was talking to a friend of hers on the phone about my adventures. "My son has a sackbut," she told her friend. "Well, maybe if he exercises it will go away," her friend replied.

[@RockStarOscarStern634]

Like the Modern Trombone, it can play in every key & in tune

[@NoHomerS]

I just bought my first shagbolt and I am so excited to learn on my first brass instrument 🤩

[@blazeelvirafirehoof7844]

the modern mouthpiece sounds like an "O" but the Sackbut one sounds like an "U", very interesting actually.

[@matthewcox7985]

Not to be confused with "sack butt," a condition that comes from sitting on a hard piano bench for long periods of time. 😁

[@bobboscarato1313]

There you go!

[@richardduiventil]

Nicely sounding in it’s simplicity👍

[@moatl6945]

Just a month ago I read (I'm no expert in this), when Beethoven introduced the trombone to symphonic music in the early 19th century the trombone was actually not more than a sackbut at that time. According to this text, the development from the sackbut to the modern trombone was later _during_ the 19th century. Footnote: Being German my first language in German this reads simpler: both instruments types are called _»Posaune«_; _»Barockposaune«_ for the sackbut, if you want to be precise.

[@bobboscarato1313]

Thanks for your explanation.-

[@davetodd4906]

There was a step-change in the early 1830s, courtesy of Sattler in Leipzig

[@timothytikker3834]

The Dead March from Handel's Saul is but one example of the association of trombones with death in 18th century music: there's also Mozart's Requiem -- especially its substantial solo in Tuba Mirum -- and the closing scene of the opera Don Giovanni.

[@smnewstead4093]

I built one and played it in a Schutz performance with other period instruments.

[@mercoid]

A delightful and educational presentation.

[@axelpatrickb.pingol3228]

"Shagbolt" really sounds wrong...

[@jauch0]

@@NeungView Getzen makes trumpets with water keys of similar design. They refer to them as Amado water keys. They are hard to repair.

[@theangryginger7582]

Worse than sackbut?

[@matthewcox7985]

Sounds like something Austin Powers came up with.

[@sugardaddy4714]

How Sean Connery would pronounce it

[@NoHomerS]

@@matthewcox7985 well jolly old Austin didn't have any musical training. He was just impressed that the horn could grow and shrink at will.

[@adolflazary5864]

Muchas gracias Perfecto Yo también me compré un sacabuche y es mi instrumento preferísdo

[@MemphiStig]

"There are more instruments in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy." That's the quote, right?

[@itamarbar9580]

I would love see a performance of a piece with these baroque trombones!

[@gradpigodemosviedaff]

There are plenty! kzbin.info/www/bejne/ambYlY1_Z7B-l9E this one for example. kzbin.info/www/bejne/ambYlY1_Z7B-l9E or this one. If you want to hear them more solistically, listen to this one kzbin.info/www/bejne/oGGnd2euqNRgj9k. Basically every recording of the last around 40 years of a piece of for example Giovanni Gabrieli or Heinrich Schütz will use Sackbuts (if they are required, but they often are in a little larger pieces). Of the latter, nice examples also are "Freue dich des Weibes deiner Jugend" or "Saul, was verfolgst du mich". Enjoy!

[@kama7021]

Very interesting! I noticed that the mouthpiece you use with the sackbut is similar to my horn mouthpiece (shallower cup, skinnier rim). I imagine that it gives you a lot more control over intonation than the modern trombone mouthpiece.

[@jismo7]

York Minster has a 32' Sackbut organ stop.

[@Altoclarinets]

say hello to gary brannan for us

[@johnbenwell9803]

True and that’s how I knew there was an instrument called a Sackbut. But I believe it was renamed Double Trombone 32 in the latest rebuild.

[@jismo7]

@@johnbenwell9803 yes, I read that too. I can't wait to here it. The Sackbut needs beefing up a bit in my humble opinion.

[@TenorCantusFirmus]

I would have liked to also listen to the modern trombone played with the "Old-School" mouthpiece, just to have an idea how much could it influence its sound (albeit I know it would have required some risky modifications to either the instrument, or the mouthpiece): maybe, for trombone students also interested in period instrument performances, but not able to afford a(n unfortunately costly) "sackbut", just starting with its mouthpiece attached to the modern instrument might in the case be a temporary compromise.

[@PeeFitty]

Yes, you are absolutely correct that playing each instrument with the opposite's mouthpiece does have a significant effect on the sound. Both lead to a quasi midpoint between the other. The biggest issue is that his modern orchestral trombone is a large bore instrument. Thus, the shank is larger than can possibly fit into the sackbut. Going the other way, some tape around the sackbut mouthpiece would have done the trick for the purpose that you wanted. But, with the small shank receivers on a modern alto or small bore tenor trombone they could be swapped -- though some sackbuts have slightly smaller receivers than what is standard today. This is all to say: yes, putting an alto sackbut mouthpiece in a modern alto trombone produces a lovely, gentle, and slightly airy sound with great control over articulation. I briefly considered playing a concerto with that setup but the rims are indeed too different to my everyday mouthpieces for me to have devoted that much time to it. Putting a modern mouthpiece in a sackbut really destroys the reason one would play the instrument in the first place. The subtlety and 'soft' sound are greatly destroyed. Many sackbut mouthpiece manufacturers offer historical or modernized/hybrid mouthpieces. The latter make it 'easier' for those who do play modern instruments to switch back and forth, but they do change the way the instrument plays (usually more easily) and how it sounds (more trombone like). A student could benefit from trying a historical mouthpiece as a less expensive way to get into that sound world. I only did it with a modern alto because a). I don't really play small bore trombone and b). the alto lends itself more towards that sound world and repertoire. A good, historical-style mouthpiece is not inexpensive (though not much different than most 'high-end' mouthpieces these days...sigh), so this would still be for a player who can accept spending $200-300 on a mouthpiece. I can't remember for certain, but I want to say that Branimir Slokar's sackbut recordings used modern-style mouthpieces. You can hear how much 'cleaner' their sound/articulation is and how much louder they can play than more historically accurate ensembles.

[@redsn4pper]

This is what us string players also do: playing modern instrument with baroque bow. It's a much more (relatively) affordable way to learn period performance for us without going full on baroque instrument; especially if you're not a full-time baroque player

[@robertsacks7995]

Most times I would play a baroque piece I would play it on a modern small bore trombone but I bet the small-shank trombone would do well with a sackbut mouthpiece.

[@Markworth]

It's really nothing to have this sort of thing done and it will work just fine. The cup isn't actually that shallow (a 4G is a terrible comparison), and the hard shoulder will definitely give you a different sort of sound. I would predict that the final result should be more reminiscent of a Trumpet than Trombone. JK lists their "Barockposaune" mouthpieces at 105 Euro. Modern rim shape is an option. Add 34 Euro for custom shank, if you don't want 10.85mm (you don't). 139 Euro to get a unique sound seems reasonable to me, but I'm a hobbyist nerd that has been shoveling money their way for a while now.

[@christopherbarber9351]

Thank you! nicely presented. I knew the word "sackbut" but I had no idea what the instrument is.

[@csmrfx]

Excellent presentation! Bravo! Interesting how the sacabuche seems to have less harmonic tone series from the standing waves, and more pink-noise-like hissing from the air passing through the horn - than its modern counterparts.

[@rosejuliette9180]

The musicians on this channel must infuriate modern instrument designers. I'm just picturing all of the work that went into making the modern mouthpiece sound breathless and well rounded at the request of musicians... Then you lot come along and are like "could you make it according to this ancient design so I can get a more breathy and fragmented tone?" And then they stomp away into the workshop mumbling under their breath about how three generations of their family have been improving on the traditional mouthpiece design.

[@phildale8490]

Thanks for your interesting feedback. Improving the modern trombone mouthpiece design is obviously important for a modern trombonist. Try going to listen to a live performance of Monteverdi's Vespers 1610 on period instruments, you will (hopefully) understand why we use such mouthpieces.

[@carolynnunes3922]

No, sir! You most certainly are NOT being a fussbudget, nor nit picky! You are interesting to listen to-as is your sackbut!

[@Principal45]

Thank you very informative and lovely sounds!

[@stickom]

I can't thank more for this episode. I am an amateur single horn in F player, perhaps the only one around the globe, and a big fan of Shakespeare where I got the best portrait of Henry the VIII and his talent. Yes, "Pastimes with good company" is Henry the VIII's play and it goes perfectly fine with tyrant with immense sense for art.

[@Desco9111]

"Choirs that use mean tone temperament" is a nice way of saying "people who can't stay in key"...

[@Herr_Flick_of_ze_Gestapo]

actually mean tune is more purely tuned than the temperament we use these days.

[@chrisriedner5385]

In meiner Orgel auch

[@MrMarcvus]

I would rather use mean tone as opposed equal temperament, which is in and of itself incredibly boring and colourless! Equal temperament only became universal in 1917 so please grow up!

[@yaboi-km2qn]

@@MrMarcvus you can only play in one key though.

[@monkeymonk2278]

Thank you for sharing your passion!

[@StephenGrew]

Really interesting thanks and Happy New Ear

[@cliffordbrown1135]

Yes, beautifully presented and played by a master of the instrument.

[@RockStarOscarStern634]

Giovanni Gabrieli in Italy would've known this instrument as a Trombone. Trombone meaning Big Trumpet because it resembles the Trumpet used at the time.

[@JuergenKrauss]

What about the role of the trombone / sackbut in Austrian baroque? There was quite a bit of continuity there until the times of Haydn / Mozart / Gluck. And the Monteverdi excerpt (vespers 1610) is from the Magnificat, not the Sonata.

[@thekirksiffs5285]

Just today, the word "Sackbuts" was the word with which my 5th grade grandson won his all school spelling bee!

[@ruthmoreton6975]

Origin of the (self sealing) Stem Bolt? Who knew it was actually a musical instrument!

[@willemceuleers6041]

no mention of the different sizes? Alto, tenor, bass and even contrabass? Cheerio, Willem

[@jenkinsfamily2229]

I love my friends’ faces when I tell them I play a sack butt

[@andybassbrass]

Splendid!

[@DavidGuion1948]

Actually, the word “trombone” is first attested in Italy in 1439. The French “trompette saqueboute” first appeared only in about 1488. So it’s not accurate to say that “sackbut” is an early name for trombone. It’s just the earlier name in English. The English had forgotten about it by Handel’s time. Organizers of the 1784 Handel commemoration wanted to use all the same instruments he had used and imported players. Published descriptions used both “sacbut” and “trombone.” The old name soon disappeared.

[@timothytikker3834]

Also, trombones were associated with funerary music, e.g. Mozart's Requiem, as well as the ominous final scene in Don Giovanni -- corroborating its use in Handel's Saul.

[@lucariotheawesome]

Ah, yes, the beautiful push-pull

[@trumpet_guy_111]

sàqueÈ-bouté 😂 loved the pronounciation

[@DrNoahofChina]

Good thing they didn’t call it a “push pull”

[@Altoclarinets]

Heheheheheh

[@willtowers1532]

it seems to be a reocurring trend, like with pianofortes and that

[@rw7051]

They did call it a push-pull. Just in the french language.

[@roymariano7116]

I want one. I want one with dual Thayer or Rene Hagmann valves (bass-sackbut).

[@edmundprice5276]

Came here from the horrible histories prom in 2011 on KZbin, and I'll say what death said, you just blew down a Sack-butt

[@Joggelschorsch]

Amazing, thanks

[@hdibart]

Really very interesting,thanks.

[@prescriptivegrammarian8721]

I love these videos

[@douro20]

Benedict Mason published a concerto for sackbut and orchestra back in 1997.

[@marklammas2465]

Mouthpiece by Sam Goble? Not by any chance related to Robert Goble, the maker of recorders and keyboard instruments? I have a Goble recorder.

[@rossthefiddler5890]

I heard it said of some beginner trombones that the bore is quite narrow & are referred to a 'pea shooters'. Has this attracted such derogatory terms too?

[@adamschilling7140]

I recently sang Saul. It's an oratorio, not an opera. But that's not my point. I loved the death march so much! And what I loved about it was that it basically sounded like a brass band playing a durge for a venerated late member of society at some Bavarian village cemetary. Which was both comedic and extremely touching at the same time. An incredibly intimate moment within the piece.

[@idraote]

In the last part of his career, Handel, tired of the theatre environment, switched to writing oratorios. And oratorios did he write, only they are so theatrical, so full of life that mistaking them for operas is only logical. They are often represented as operas, these days, with full-on staging.

[@timothytikker3834]

The Dead March from Saul was used far beyond the oratorio: the British military used it for funerals, and executions -- and I've even seen reference to use of "the Dead March" (composer not identified, but presumably Handel) in a US Army instruction booklet for executions from 1947. And, the American composer Charles Ives quoted it in an early song, written for a pet's funeral.

[@THall-vi8cp]

The sackbut mouthpiece is similar to those of natural trumpets of the day. That was the technology for making trumpet mouthpieces at that time. That makes sense when considering the etymology presented for the word "sackbut." On that note, does this mean the first trombones were really slide trumpets? Hmmm...

[@Lucius1958]

The slide trumpet (or tenor trumpet) is actually an earlier, medieval instrument, using a single slide on the mouthpiece end. The slide positions would have been twice as long as those on the sackbut, which made it difficult to play fast passages: in fact, the difference in weight between the mouthpiece and the rest of the instrument could possibly have knocked the player's teeth out, if they attempted too fast a return to first position.

[@THall-vi8cp]

I know. I'm just trying to inject a little humor. I know the difference between a medieval slide trumpet and a sackbut. I'm a little perplexed, however, at how this could be called a tenor instrument: m.kzbin.info/www/bejne/pIOYZaKYftWZabM The video title refers to it as a "contratenore" or countertenor instrument, and he is playing it at a range which matches fairly well with the mezzo-soprano range of modern B-flat and C trumpets. Of course, terminology is not consistent between instrument families. A tenor trombone is an octave below a B-flat trumpet, but a trumpet in that pitch is a bass trumpet (even using a trombone mouthpiece), and a modern tenor trumpet is usually pitched in E-flat or F (the same E-flat being the pitch of an alto trombone) and sometimes even being called -- wait for it -- an alto trumpet. 🥴

[@Cysubtor_8vb]

How does a modern alto trombone compare to the sackbut? Know it's still larger bore than an alto or tenor sackbut and the bell design is different, but how far off is its softer, brighter tone vs the modern tenor to the sackbut?

[@gregoryborton6598]

Being a smaller instrument, it'll naturally have a "brighter" tone. It's more bright than a mellophone owing to it's more cylindrical bore. In terms of softness though, it's much closer to a modern tenor because of the bell flare, it certainly would have the power to stand out over a tutti orchestra, unlike the historical instrument. Really, all the altos you see are tenors pitched up to F, beyond changing the key there's few changes to the actual overall design.

[@bobbiecorno8560]

Do you know what keys these are pitched in?

[@GabrielVelasco]

Is the sackbut a transposing instrument? In which key is it considered to be?

[@gradpigodemosviedaff]

Because of the slide, there is no need to transpose, so I do not think, that it is transposing. (It will use differing clefs though, alto clef for the alto sackbut for example.)

[@GabrielVelasco]

@@gradpigodemosviedaff Maybe I didn't state it correctly, but I think I did. If I play a C on my Eb alto sax, the concert pitch it sounds is an Eb. So, it's a transposing instrument. If I play a C on my flute, it sounds a concert C, so it's a non-transposing instrument. I believe trombones are in C, so they are a non-transposing instrument. Are trombones and sackbuts pitched the same? And, if you play a C on the music, does it sound a concert C? And, is that because sackbuts are a non-transposing instrument, or is that because there was no such thing before modern orchestras?

[@andybassbrass]

Generally, the sackbut/trombone (in all of its sizes) is not a transposing instrument. If it says 'C' on the music (whatever the clef), a trombonist will play a 'C', it will be called a 'C', and it will sound like a 'C'. However, one might have to transpose under certain circumstances e.g. playing at pitch levels which differ from modern (A = 440hz) pitch - A = 465hz (a semitone higher), A= 415hz (semitone lower) etc.

[@BuddyCooke]

Gabriel Valesco- There are actually two things going on. The key of an instrument has nothing to do with notation or transposing. Your sax is in Eb because if you close all the tone holes the note it will sound is an Eb (“concert Eb”). For brass instruments, the key is the note sounded without adding extra tubing (no valves or extra slide). A Bb trumpet sounds a Bb as it’s fundamental note with no valves, for example. The standard, modern, tenor trombone is in the key of Bb. That is the note it plays with the slide in 1st position. Music notation and transposing conventions is a separate issue. I’m sure you know saxophones come in different keys (as do clarinets, trumpets, etc). Transposing so that the fundamental of the instrument is written C is just a convention so that when players move to instruments in a different key, the fingerings stay the same- despite the played note being different. In orchestral music, the bass instruments typically do not transpose. This doesn’t mean the instrument is in the key of C. (It is a hold over from very old chamber music that was written with a bass part which was played on whatever instruments were available- string bass, bassoon, tuba, whatever. Just written in concert pitch because there was no telling what instrument would be used). This is very apparent for tubists. Tubas in Bb, Eb, F, C, all play the same sheet music. They have know the key of the instrument and use different fingerings because it is not transposed. You see this with Baritones- which are in Bb. Concert band music typically include a bass clef and treble clef part for the baritone. It is the same part played on the same instrument. The bass clef sheet is in concert pitch. The treble clef part is transposed for Bb. You could transpose the trombone part- it is Bb same as trumpets. In fact- this is done. British brass band music is written in treble clef on the tenor trombone part and transposed for Bb. (Only the bass trombone is in bass clef). TLDR: the key of the instrument is defined by the physical instrument itself. Transposing (or not) is based on convention of the genre and instrument. Those two things interacting are why when you play a written C on your Eb sax you sound a concert Eb.

[@LeoZenRock]

@@BuddyCooke hi, Not disagreeing with your explanation because it is correct; but I do want to amend your understanding of Saxophone tuning. Pressing down all of the keys on an Eb saxophone will NOT produce a concert Eb pitch, it will make a Db, which plays as a Bb on saxophone. The purpose of the saxophone's tuning, which is nearly always in Eb or Bb depending on the size, is due to its historical purpose within ensembles. Adolf Sax originally invented 2 lines of saxophones. One line in Eb and Bb, which was to be used in military and marching bands (which generally had Bb and Eb tuned instruments) and one line in F and C tuning which was to be used in orchestras. Unfortunately saxophone never really took off in an orchestral setting (partially due to rival musicians and instrument makers disliking Adolf Sax) so F and C saxophones are rarely found these days. Bb and Eb saxophones continued to find success in American bands though, and eventually found great popularity in jazz bands, cementing them in modern music history. So overall the reason that saxophones are tuned to Eb and Bb is NOT because they naturally resonate to an Eb, but to match the tuning systems of the instruments they were designed to perform with.

[@ThreadBomb]

I know the trombone was used in sacred music. Did this continue before its revival in 19th c. symphonic music?

[@Altoclarinets]

... holy tromboli

[@gunder7057]

In Mozart's Requiem, there is a magnificent duet between a bass singer and tenor trombone: Tuba Mirum. (1791) Perhaps the start of modern use of trombone.

[@DavidGuion1948]

Olav Gundersen: Actually, Mozart’s Requiem marks the end of a long Austrian tradition. The world just hasn’t paid much attention to the earlier composers.

[@Stealyourmemes_studios]

6:08 I thought the cornet was a brass instrument after the flugelhorn?

[@instrumentalheadquarters7062]

Please do a video on the Early Bass Oboe if you have access to one at OAE. Or on the serpent.

[@Dude8718]

the blue screen is glitching out haha the trombone is disappearing!

[@jackp492]

The sackbut is in the book of Daniel I believe, maybe just the king James translation of what the actual instrument is in the story

[@rafaelsoaresbiondi2849]

Grato!

[@yourmadwife]

this instrument could be played in "69" position

[@RockStarOscarStern634]

A Trombone

[@collineckler8986]

So its just a trombone that sounds like it has a leak

[@VisioGuy]

And costs EUR4000 (that's a Meinl!) I think it needs to be played in a hall that has echo, like an old church. That's my only minor quip with this video, it's in a dampened studio and doesn't sound as nice as it should

[@RealJstJazz]

Baroque trumpet with slide= sackbut

[@gufbrindleback]

How do you get a higher note by sliding the slide outward? Is there a shift key somewhere?

[@bobby_greene]

The change is in the lips

[@hirokokueh3541]

brass instruments use "overtone", it means you can play multiple different notes on the same tube length. so if the instrument can play C, E, and G on the same position, E to F is sliding outward, because the F is on the same series as G

[@oae]

The Sackbutt has 7 positions, each position is roughly 15cm apart from the other. The arm fully stretched is 7th position and pulled all the way in is 1st position. Each position represents one semitone and in each position there are a series of notes available which you can produce by increasing the tension in your lip. These notes follow the same pattern in each position called The Harmonic Series: Root (lowest note), fifth, octave, twelfth and up it goes. To give just one simple example: 1st position’s root is Bb and by tightening the lips and staying in 1st position I get the next harmonic F (fifth higher). In 4th position (pushing outwards) the root is G and a fifth higher to D. If I want to play Bb to D (a third higher) I will need to slide the slide outwards whilst adjusting my lips accordingly. There are no special shift keys, just a knowledge of the harmonic series.

[@renderizer01]

@@oae Thank you. That was a brilliantly concise explanation. Couldn't have been any clearer.

[@richsackett3423]

You didn't make the sale of the trombone and sackbut being substantially difference. Trim the bell on a small-bore trombone and use a less-refined mouthpiece: instant sackbut.

[@gregoryborton6598]

Different metallurgy, the way the metal is worked (they're laythed now as opposed to hammered), lack of a F trigger etc. They're hugely changed, you'd notice it immediately if you played brass or trombone.

[@richsackett3423]

@@gregoryborton6598 The only part of a trombone lathed is the mouthpiece. Are you trying to tell me bells are cast then lathed? They're not. I actively played trombone for 30 years. An F-attachment (which a only small minority of instruments have) doesn't define the instrument any more the D-tuner key on a bass guitar. Greg.

[@gregoryborton6598]

@@richsackett3423 If you're playing jazz, then yeah a - minority - of instruments will have an F trigger. I should've been clear I was talking about classical performance only, where basically everyone uses an f-trigger attachment. I've only seen a straight horn in a professional orchestra once, and that was during a performance of Gershwin's Rhapsody in Blue so it makes sense there. First horn in a concert band might elect to use a straight horn, but majority of horns there in my experience are F-attachment as well. And you're wrong on your second point, an f-attachment isn't equalivent to adding another string to a guitar. Horns with an F-attachment tend of have a larger bore than straight horns and have a more conical taper to the bell, leading to a warmer tone. Again, to me this can instantly be noticed upon playing the instrument compared to a straight horn. If you've only played in amatuer ensembles then straight horns tend to be a lot more popular for financial reasons, but every professional trombonist I know (including myself) owns/rents a trigger and a straight horn. I may of misspoke when I said 'laythed', my point is the process of construction is different now then it is then. These subtle differences can really effect the timbre of the instrument. If you have played trombone for 30 years and really can't tell the difference in timbre between a Sackbutt and a modern horn, well.. that doesn't say much for your musicianship.

[@richsackett3423]

@@gregoryborton6598 On balance, having an F-attachment is a net cost for no significant benefit beyond adding low Eb-B and making 7th position B easy. Those are bass trombone notes and appear very rarely in 1st and 2nd orchestral parts. Rotary valves make the horn stuffy. A Thayer with an open wrap helps but is somewhat expensive. FWIW, my first real horn was a silver 3B with a trigger. My last was one without. An significant difference between the two.

[@matthenson3472]

The biggest difference is conical/cylindrical tubing ratios. Sackbut has more cylindrical tubing, really different bell taper, often very different crooks, and different mouthpiece. It’s the same kind of distinction between “trumpet” and “cornet.”

[@yurtnurtgarr]

nice

[@Krisha991]

İ didn't know it was an antique instrument!

[@Orangensaftmann]

You really got me with „Monteverdi used many Sackbutts...“ :D

[@antoniocruz1163]

Interesting

[@RÅNÇIÐ]

*surpressed juvenile laughter*

[@outlierjahd7910]

Sackbutt

[@DNKG669]

Where could I get sheet music for that arrangement of pastimes with good company

[@tsavin2]

This whole video is a euphemism

[@Herr_Flick_of_ze_Gestapo]

So is your mother.

[@tsavin2]

@@Herr_Flick_of_ze_Gestapo ❤😂

[@fazergazer]

I wonder if the mustache adds additional character to the overall tone? ;)

[@charliecampbell6851]

Facial hair doesn’t affect the sound of a brass instrument. Just takes a few weeks to get used to the feeling.

[@kiereluurs1243]

Interesting. I would have liked to hear some pieces also played on trombone, for comparison. I wouldn't use that green background, and brighten up the lighting.

[@raymondweaver8526]

Besides bell size, how does this really differ from a trombone?

[@larsmunch4536]

When you compare the size of the bell of this sackbut with a bass trombone, the difference is really big. If, instead, you compared it with a normal tenor trombone (which would probably be a more relevant comparison), the difference would still be big, but not that big.

[@phildale8490]

The modern instrument is a Conn 88H TENOR trombone played by a majority of orchestral players not bass trombone as you incorrectly suggest.

[@DNKG669]

Modern bass trombone bells are between 9.5 inches to 10.5 inches in Diameter (on average) Modern tenor trombone bells are between 7 and 8.5 inches in diameter (on average) If I had to guess the bell diameter of a sackbut because I don't know off the top of my head, I'd imagine it's less than 4 inches

[@jauch0]

If I understand correctly, the "Age of Enlightenment" began in about the 1700's. By that time, the sackbut was largely a thing of the past. I would imagine that the "Orchestra of The Age of Enlightenment", if it was true to its name, would not include a sackbut. I would love to have someone explain what is wrong about my criticism.

[@Surtak]

I can't hear you over the sackbut

[@lwilton]

Well, one could argue that it is an orchestra enlightening us in the present age of how things sounded in previous ages. That is perhaps a rather loose interpretation of the name of the group. But maybe it is a not unreasonable interpretation.

[@douro20]

Was that sackbut built by Geert Jan van der Heide?

[@nicandknacksandseans]

Ah yes. The sackbut. Or as my music history teacher called it the "stop laughing, I hate you and my job you little shits"

[@Chompchompyerded]

Also called at some places and at various times the "sagbutt" which sounds even more wrong. Probably why he didn't mention it.

[@mazadan]

Would love a sackbut. I’v see a rath sackbut, but way out of my pocket

[@jeshely]

More upper mids in the sackbut

[@vacuumlover1]

hahaaha.... *sac butt*

[@ckh57]

Daniel 3:5 That at what time ye hear the sound of the cornet, flute, harp, sackbut, psaltery, dulcimer, and all kinds of musick, ye fall down and worship the golden image that Nebuchadnezzar the king hath set up:

[@andrewwigglesworth3030]

Shagbolt 🙂

[@kloak326]

It looks like a trombone

[@Ithirahad]

This thing feels like it's designed to be played in the background of someone explaining all the stupid names it's been given. Shag bush? Is that like a bush people go in and...?

[@RafaelR-F]

looks like a trombone to me

[@MyMy-tv7fd]

slush pump

[@Freddy-Da-Freeloadah]

It's in the Bible... IMHO Daniel 3:5, 7, 10, 15 3:5 That at what time ye hear the sound of the cornet, flute, harp, sackbut, psaltery, dulcimer, and all kinds of musick, ye fall down and worship the golden image that Nebuchadnezzar the king hath set up: 3:7 Therefore at that time, when all the people heard the sound of the cornet, flute, harp, sackbut, psaltery, and all kinds of musick, all the people, the nations, and the languages, fell down and worshipped the golden image that Nebuchadnezzar the king had set up. 3:10 Thou, O king, hast made a decree, that every man that shall hear the sound of the cornet, flute, harp, sackbut, psaltery, and dulcimer, and all kinds of musick, shall fall down and worship the golden image: 3:15 Now if ye be ready that at what time ye hear the sound of the cornet, flute, harp, sackbut, psaltery, and dulcimer, and all kinds of musick, ye fall down and worship the image which I have made; well: but if ye worship not, ye shall be cast the same hour into the midst of a burning fiery furnace; and who is that God that shall deliver you out of my hands?

[@nopushbutton]

play the sackbut or face the hackbut

[@fergusbyett8088]

2:09

[@ShadamAran]

imagine that intro on shrooms...

[@ithinkmallardsarecool5859]

"Very poor choice if words."

[@Altoclarinets]

PEA SHOOTERRRRRRRRRRRRR

[@DNKG669]

problem?

[@__Man__]

Why didn't we give the name suckpush in English as it is etymologically correct according to the word saqueboute? Rather than sackbut that sounds like that.