The 4 Levels of Cheating in EverQuest

Let’s talk about the 4 levels of “Cheating” in EverQuest. Why do people cheat?
I’m making this because the official rules are unclear & selectively enforced. I’ve done all of these forms of quote cheating. I think some cheating definitely goes too far but others forms are fairly innocent. But the real problem is we, the players, don't actually know what crosses the line. That's what I want to set straight.
I will try to reply to all comments made within 24 hours of a video upload.
Viewer Discretion Advised: EverQuest is rated "T" for teen. But Discord & In-Game Chat may contain material not suitable for minors. Cursing is kept to a minimum when possible.
#EverQuest #EverQuest2

[@matthewtaylor8094]

MySEQ was the first C# project I wrote, it's nice to see that people are still running it so many years later. I had lots of fun writing it and had an unreleased 3d map feature for it that loaded the maps from the game. Sadly I ended up too busy to continue with it, but it eventually led to my current C# job and a bunch of smaller projects along the way.

[@justinkibler6920]

You're a legend! MySEQ was a gamechanger.

[@Nick-wz1sg]

haha thats awesome, you should totally do a v2

[@ieast007]

Cavemanbob

[@richardwallis9374]

I loved MySeq! I was a responsible user. Pretty much used to give me a greater eye on what was happening in the instance my guild was leading. Was no reason for me to use it open world.

[@adrianmoore2750]

Hahahahahahaha you helped so many people steal my camps 🫡

[@jayr7613]

At this point they should just be happy that people are still playing the game. Without the players, the game dies.i used macroquest and paid for 4 accounts monthly, bought all the expansions. Loved it. I tried to play a couple years ago with just 1 account, couldn't get a group or solo, really fun....and my moon has over 11,000 aa's so he's not weak. Just too hard to find a group if you don't have connections now.

[@av4826]

I remember finding out about ShowEQ and it spoiled everything for me, knowing that people had been using that. EQ was truly magical at first; but once I took it seriously, it was a social game. The magic is in those first 20 levels or so when you still haven't turned the music off.

[@Merknilash]

The early days of EQ were so incredible I’m talking like March thru June of 1999

[@bigglock5478]

I haven’t played either EverQuest for 16 years now. Your videos are overloading my nostalgia. Maybe I should play again. Keep it up man

[@Raskel8274]

Back in early EQ on Rallos Zek, you always knew who was using showEQ. Back then it primarily ran on Linux. I was just a dumb kid but I went to half-priced books. Got a second hand copy of redhat and installed it on a PC. Figured out how to compile it, setup a passthrough network, etc. All in the name of wanting to cheat at everquest. 23 years later and Linux, programming, etc is my job now. Thank you SEQ!

[@Girrrrrrrr]

Oh man, halfpriced books..I miss that place! And it was always dope to watch my buddy play EQ and raid, I was into DAoC at the time.

[@ieast007]

Yeah, I remember back in the day very few people knew how to use Linux or compile ShowEQ. It was pretty much an instant invite to a high end guild.

[@Merknilash]

The Begotten and Hidden Power were big ShowEQ users I remember the war with them and how I’d be in some random spot in dreadlands with invis on and they’d just beeline towards me Later on I used it on TLP and you see literally everyone is using it

[@Raskel8274]

@@Merknilash haha i was in begotten mostly towards the end of velious and luclin. I figured out show eq really lright before i quit playing.

[@Merknilash]

@@Raskel8274 Nilear and Nalear used it

[@StevensBorowsky]

I believe I was the first enchanter to get his epic weapon on Yelinak, I managed to do it cold without any ancillary programs whatsoever, didn't even use GINA triggers. I had to fight people using eyes for Cazic in South Ro for the spoon which was probably the hardest part about not cheating

[@IonBlaze1]

Oooof. Yeah I don't remember the maps use to be so bad but now it's like everyone is using it.

[@anthonylombardo1261]

To get her**

[@daethe]

who uses Eyes for Cazel in South Ro? he has a spawn location.

[@ChrisTitusTech]

It's a rough topic to address. Without many of these programs the games die, but you did a good job of talking about it. The only problem is the solution requires too much manpower which they don't have. They can't just ban everyone that uses the software as I'd imagine that would be 50% of the playerbase. Daybreak already has these detection tools and instead of outright bans, simple warnings and suspensions should suffice. The downside to this approach is there is an overall loss of revenue of boxers. Sadly, there is no new players and they can't do this either... Its a problem where there is no good solution.

[@IonBlaze1]

Thank you for the insightful comment. Not usual to have nuance here. If they're not gonna enforce the rules per se, then it'd be fairer to regulate it perhaps

[@TheDogShutUp]

Just judging from what Ive seen, I don't necessarily think the boxers are a huge net profit, as they typically have such a strong advantage in plat farming and migrate with the TLP schedule to maximize Krono farm. Arguably, its the "Casual Andy's" buying Kronos to purchase the boxers fungi and such. I see a lot of single decked out toons versus decked out armies. Typically its mage cheese boxers.

[@Dadaph]

I remember being nervous for being banned when I figured out strafe running back in the day. Had no idea how deep this rabbit hole went...

[@IonBlaze1]

Strafe running is a bard's bread & butter! Yeah cheating runs quite far

[@darrenramey437]

Back during the bard BOTB on Bristlebane. I was in a small guild and way under equipped but made it to the final match. It was a best of 3. I won the first one easy. Was winning the second round when the GM starts accusing me of using Selo’s(the speed song) which had been banned over the fear that matches would never end. I was literally arguing with the GM about it during the match and lost. I explained to the GM that I didn’t even have it on my hot bar, but he said he could see I was running over the base speed and told me I had to stop. I was like “You mean strafe running?”. He said whatever was causing me to run faster than standard. I lost the 3rd match too, my opponent changed tactics and I was concentrating on not strafe running instead of winning. I’m still bitter 20 some odd years later…

[@AQJ_DK]

Per Accendo’s post it has to “Modify” the game data, both Gina and parsers just read the game data

[@TheRealMTR]

I was using showeq and warping back in 2004 /2005. As a monk it made the game MUCH more fun.

[@Fighter05]

As you mentioned, I think removing the need for multiple accounts and just making it so you could turn your own alts on your account into mercs or adding QoL features like a smart follow would go along way. Just make it require a token you could buy for money or 1 krono to unlock a slot. Call it like a Garrison system or something. You can change out your main and their 2 supporting boxes/alts/mercs. That way you could gear them out and swap around your comp depending on what you wanted to do or felt like playing. Then start cracking down on 3rd party program use with suspensions followed by bans. I am for sure an experienced MQ2 user and I think the level of automation it provides is damaging to the game and causes widespread abuse with how easy it is to do. Its way more damaging then MySEQ. With MySEQ you actually have to be online and play to abuse it. Automation lets you shutdown entire zones

[@Chad-mf5vo]

Anyone know what someone is using in this instance? I 4 box on one computer with no software help, I just window each character and switch. Every time this one group enters the same zone I am in, suddenly none of my hotbutton keys work like /assist "main tank", as it targets corpses this other group has killed. If I track them down and they spot me looking at them, they quickly zone. As soon as they leave the zone, hotbuttons work again. Really annoying and have reported them twice now. Anyone have clues on what they are doing or using? Thanks

[@cougarhunter33]

I messed around with SEQ back in the Seeds of Destruction era. It was interesting to do stuff like be able to port around to nameds in Field of Scale, know where mobs were and fly around above the map in places you couldn't ordinarily access. Aside from that, I had no interest in using its other functions. It was a short-lived thing because the risk was too great.

[@scottgrogg8866]

Would be cool if Daybreak would just get rid of "mercs" and make additional characters to be assigned as a "merc" and would use the same automation that a merc uses. This would require an additional sub for your "merc". Increasing dollars into the game...and would be able to regulate "cheating"

[@EzahninFierceMBT]

I like this Idea and what's more if you do have a family member that wants to play they can take up one of the characters to join in... In WoW I would use all my family members accounts to maintain their characters and or have my own multi box sets...

[@xmod2]

Chainbreakers has this. You can recruit an alt on the same account to act as a merc and even switch control between them while ooc.

[@KenMagee]

Back when EQ was still SoE, I paid monthly for 10 accounts. I boxed 6 of them at a time with MQ2. Kept the others online in my guild hall so I could port in quickly without having to load a full map. I kept buffers in the guild hall for teams that didn't have certain things. It was right after a new exp had come out that they adjusted timers on certain tasks I had been running repeatedly while trying to catch up. Those timers had been in place for 2 years prior but now they were a problem. That was enough for me. I tool my 200 bucks a month and played something else. If I need an EQ fix, I will log on to emu servers.

[@xordoom8467]

I use to 6 box all the time without using any 3rd party program to auto my characters, you just have to be aware and have enough practice, so it is effortless. I did this for years when I couldn't find groups or needed an item that I didn't want to roll on forever until I won...

[@IonBlaze1]

Respect! That is the hard way to do it. I couldn't. Not that good of a player

[@spig3547]

Damn man I struggle with two machines.

[@demris15]

I remember doing the Mistchief TLP and talking to my group about what they did... GMs really don't care as long as people are paying money for krono... take away krono, farmers won't have anything significant to farm for. GMs also need to be consistent with bans as you said

[@IonBlaze1]

Man, krono is such a hard thing. It causes problems but at the same time, if Daybreak won't do RMT, then some 3rd party website will do it for them. I miss the old days before monetization

[@Fueamil]

I was not around for the good old days when real money trades did not happen. I started in 2002 and you could buy plat all the way back then. With Kr EQ at least gets some sales from something that happens in most games.

[@GES1985]

They just need to make mercenaries of every class that they already have NPC AI for, and let 1 person have 5 mercs, so you can "solo" a full group of the classes you actually want to playthrough with.

[@IonBlaze1]

Heck yeah! I'd pay for that. Way better than MQ2.

[@Demilak]

Guild Wars 1 did this. They were never better than a player taking that spot, but running with a full squad was incredibly satisfying even if you were solo, and you could play whatever and pick your mercenaries to build a functional group. I would love it if any of the mercs in EQ could slow so I didn't feel like I was being incredibly inefficient by not having a slower. I am my raiding guilds only Wizard, and I box a Cleric since that's what my guild needs for raids. Thornblade still has truebox enabled, and I do not have a 3rd PC to run a slower.

[@GES1985]

@Demilak I used to main a bard, and trueboxed a mage and necro alongside him, with cleric/tank/dps mercs. I wish I could have had a SK/SHM in the mix as mercs. Even better if they let us gear mercs with player gear like regular inventory instead of merc gear

[@TheRealCHIMShady]

On a wow private server I used to play with a dude who programmed his own primitive healer bot to box with. Since 90% of players just wanna be dps he boxed a priest to follow his warrior but in dungeons he had a primitive self made bot program just have it heal people below 50% with hard cast and renew under 80%, drinking when it could and having one guy on follow. Very nice for when there are barely people on at odd hours.

[@eric7676]

i wish day break would just allow 2 box from the beginning

[@IonBlaze1]

Would be nice :)

[@GenuineBrad]

Ayyy, I see Solar and Aurora in the raid clips :) Thanks for categorizing and sharing this Ayonic, and thanks for recommending action.

[@IonBlaze1]

Thank you for giving hte video a shot :)

[@astockalypse7500]

Another great video! Your channel is one of the only ones, of any type, that I will actually watch a full 20+ minute video from. As a long time player who has never even used a second account, much less any software, I am interested in how people do it. Because the game was designed to need multiple people, boxing is a necessity. Mercs help for sure, but they aren't perfect. Also, as people who have dumped enough money into this game to buy a car, I feel like there should be some leeway for the grind-y, soul crushingly slow aspects. However, plat farmers and massive box armies are a problem for people who just want to play for fun, so there has to be a line in the sand. I think you picked a good spot for that line and you're right about this discussion needing to finally happen. The question is will it happen? Daybreak is a company owned by another publicly traded company(Enad Global 7 AB, on the Swedish exchange), so the rules of the stock market apply to daybreak indirectly. The game needs to be as profitable as it can be, so what we enjoy may not always be a part of it. The box armies and plat farmers are part of the ecosystem that keeps the money flowing to daybreak, so I have a feeling the vague rules are not going away. They need a way to selectively ban problematic accounts, but not accounts that drive more revenue. It's like in sports, vague rules are there to let the leagues make decisions that best benefit them, if there is a problem. However, there's a balance between that and retaining people that love the game, so they can only do so much before the ecosystem collapses. Very interesting discussion!

[@IonBlaze1]

Thank you so much for the compliments. I also appreciate the nuance in your response. Cool to take an economic perspective on the game. Never hear that. Thank you for the great comment. Love the streams :)

[@astockalypse7500]

@@IonBlaze1 Thanks! I'm glad you like the streams. Yeah, I never thought about the economics of it until I got into trading. Now I see stock charts in everything! haha

[@darkwulf2k]

In general I have always had a distaste for bots. ruins the community thing overall imho. Esp as you pointed out how the RMTer, or gold farmer, or whatever you want to call them us it. Sorry but the bad apples this time to me way out do the bene's. Like do not get me wrong someone having a clr or something for a duo is nice, but generally i find the bots used for evil, and not neutral or good things.

[@SomeGuy905]

Without MQ2, Everquest would have shut down completely 15 years ago. You hate bots so much youd see your favorite game in the trash because of it?

[@sparaz]

You left out level 5 cheating (jokingly), directly modifying the clients memory. Back in 98 I got banned for modifying the hex in a men editor to give whatever run speed, or warp to different zones, or give skills from other classes to you're character. I only got caught because I accidently warped to sunset home (gm zone I had from being a guide previously). I did get my account back after I explained what technique and memory flags I was using. There are checks in place now but you can still do some nefarious stuff. I don't condone any of that obviously, but I was 15 at the time and was too curious.

[@clallen2000]

I have left EQ several times over the years because I waste hours LFG and if I ever get one then usually my play time is almost up. I don't want to be LFG for 2 hours and find a group for 30 minutes till I have to log off.

[@Corvid76]

I've always wanted to cheat in EverQuest. Thank you for creating such an in-depth tutorial on how to cheat without getting caught.

[@americandingo1109]

You probably won't last long if you've been incapable of using Google up to this point.

[@ocasioangel]

It's actually easy to get caught. Daybreak just don't enforce it too much because most botters pay for at least 3 accounts.

[@Corvid76]

@@ocasioangel regardless, he knows that he's helping the cheaters more than he's helping Daybreak with this video and I for one appreciate the info because I didn't even know where to go to find programs.. Apparently Redguides is the place. I'm sure people there can help further go undetected with a few things.

[@IonBlaze1]

Huh lol? It's all just a simple google search away. This vid doesn't change much. Just trying to be honest about what people are doing

[@IonBlaze1]

Yeah definitely. They have anti-cheat detection. Probably a huge list of offenders it's just they don't enforce it

[@user-zn4dv8xg4e]

Definitely need to be allowed to have 5 merc, because it’s way to hard to find groups.

[@robocoastie]

If they would make EQ3 and phase out EQ and EQ2 there would actually be people to group with like the old days. It’s long past its lifespan. A quickfix would be combining servers again. Like down to 1 per earth continent. US, EU, PAC-Asia for instance.

[@Graytalon]

@IonBlaze1 Hey bud. Just trying to make sure you are still alive. Drop a line out here for those of us who think singing and swinging swords should be considered normal. As long as it's being done at the same time.

[@TheNitroG1]

if they are checking for multiple keypresses from the same IP...which by the way would cause issues when it comes to having friends over for a lan party. Just program in delays so that the keypresses don't all happen at the same time...

[@Gasmurken]

I run a full Group with ISBoxer, some times 8 to level up toons. And I find it totally fine, not a lot of management at all. However I would recommend that 1 character is a mage for easier movements. But mostly they are just all on auto follow. With this setup I am able to do any group task mission apart from very few that has complicated mechanics that require you to be in multiple places at once. So personally I do not need tools like MQ, but I do understand why people are tempted to use it. But my point is that you do not really need it. And no, I am by no means slow in progressing either. I would say that You can do most what you want plowing through if you want. It is really just all about practice and knowing your classes. Also I have done this with both group gear and raid gear. So it does not require your characters to be OP.

[@peternoble9660]

Why doesn't Daybreak Games capitalize on the potential of multiboxing by introducing a multibox subscription tier available exclusively on designated servers? This could be a strategic move with multiple benefits. Seems like a no brainer.

[@SweGunner71]

Worth mentioning that MacroQuest wont do any of those things out of the box. You need to use scripts (MQ Macros or Lua scripts) for all these "abilities" to work, which requires programming skills. OR you use scripts provided by others, either for free or for cash. :)

[@nealorr5086]

A correction on your comment that the reason that true-box servers suffer population decline after a certain time frame. They do, but a bigger problem is that DayBreak releases a new server (or two) every year. That's what really kills off the population on the previous year's server(s).

[@kronec_pain]

I thought Show EQ was a separate program, how did you get it to show the mobs in the Everquest map window in game?

[@IonBlaze1]

It can be both. Some people have it as a separate program. This version of macroquest had it built-in

[@SlipKoRnNinja]

what about just running 5 instances of eq on one pc? what i used to do. just tab between them and play them no addons? would that still be considered cheating?

[@SlipKoRnNinja]

never mind level 2 answered the question, awsome video so far!

[@ieast007]

I miss the good old days when the uber hacks like nodelay/ghostkill were still working. You could use a Monk and a Paladin to completely wipe out a zone like CoA in a matter of minutes. Also, there were hacks where you could force yourself into a raid and ninja loot the raid target, followed by immediately crashing the zone before anyone knew what happened.

[@KingKoopah]

Great work on the production quality. Sound especially is great. Keep it up!

[@CrossBorderCamping]

As a guild leader in EQ1, we don't worry as much as we used to about "cheating" programs or I would have no crew! However, I do insist if my members use assist/boxing programs, they MUST be at the keyboard in case there are any problems. It seems to be a good policy to accommodate everyone; however, we do encourage guild groups to build in-game trust and relationships. Also, I saw an Eldragor in one of your snippets. Is that the same Eldragor/Greyloer that hung out on Mith Marr/Saryrn/Bertoxx??

[@Nickelback8469]

All this is why I love Project 1999. The GMs are consistent and expedient about applying the rules, and the population is high enough that you don’t need to box to get enough characters together to farm higher level content. Yes it has some issues as you’ve talked about in your “problems with Project 1999” video but there’s just no reason for me to go to Live or TLPs because all of their issues are way worse for my enjoyment of EQ.

[@anthonydemaurez1218]

Hello just wanted to ask if you'll be posting soon. Love your videos

[@Erekai]

Yeah, you hit the nail on the head as to why I use ShowEQ -- it's because everyone else does. I'm "fairly" new to the TLP scene: Oakwynd is my 4th TLP. But after playing on 3 other TLPs and resisting using SEQ but being constantly beaten by the people who were using it, I ultimately determined that I just can't beat them... so I joined them. I don't LIKE that it came to that, but if I don't use it, I'm at an incredible disadvantage that ruins my desire to want to play the game at all. If no one used it, I'd happily not use it. But alas... gotta fight fire with fire. :(

[@sirboss7]

Is it easy to figure out? I was hoping to level up a main to harvest items for alts but it sounds like that's a farfetched dream now

[@Erekai]

@@sirboss7 I'd be lying if I told you I still REALLY know how to use it, lol. All I know is I load it up, it shows me mob locations, and every patch, I edit a .txt file, but I really don't know that much about the program.

[@xakoman8003]

I played bs MMOs in my time (FFXI, Aion when it first came out). I spent way too much time on menial or bs tasks to be as strict on "cheating" as I was. I remember buying gold on FFXI when I got a job and couldn't spend so many hours farming, so I didn't fall back because I didn't spend 14+ hours a day playing. Also botted tf out of Aion's craft training because that shit is just repetitive. Vendors have ALL (or 99%of) the mats needed to reach max level and honestly, spending 10+ hours of my life mindlessly clicking "craft" with a full inventory is not rewarding nor compelling.

[@bobbycrosby9765]

Back during Kunark, when I lived at home, we had a computer room with 3 computers in it - 1 for my dad, 1 for me, and 1 for my brother. I used to multibox using those 3. I had my dad take out the carpet so I could wheel my chair between them faster - they were across the room from eachother.

[@montanastranger]

If ya ain't cheatin...then ya ain't trying.

[@alphadragongamingFTW]

lol I use to double box a LONG time ago in the early 2000s with EQ. But I used my Dads computer which was down stairs and mine was upstairs so I would be running up and down the stairs every so often when I needed a ton of buffs, or I would auto attack and then run down stairs and heal my tank for a little while during his auto attack.

[@GrayBeardFPS]

I just want to return to EQ but im still waiting for EQ3 and aslong as they can milk eq1 and eq2 that will never happen. I backed both projects eq next and the bob the builder game hoping it would result to something but they oulled the rug on us. My love for EQ has not changed but its like that true love that just got away at this point.

[@Javierlynn]

I just started playing again a few hours ago thanks to u on eq2. I have a lot to catch up too. How can I have my ui look similar to urs? I can figuer it out

[@IonBlaze1]

Oh good luck man! Yeah Kunark on Aug 8th. Gonna be popping. I just use the default UI in EQ2. Rearranged the windows & stuff. I got an EQ2 tips & tricks video I did not that long ago

[@Javierlynn]

@@IonBlaze1 looking for it now. Sure miss this. Thanks for the content. I have the whole fam watching when I do

[@odin6667]

I got banned in 2005 for botting monster missions from the DoD expansion. Lost 4 years of solid geared druid

[@kiyo123]

If Daybreak took as much time and effort into improving EQ, as the player base does into cheating. EQ would be so much better.

[@IonBlaze1]

Yeah you got a point. Game was terribly mismanaged. WoW killed EQ partially cause of terrible corporate decisions..

[@archon5951]

Mercs then free to play we’re the nails.

[@raphaelsolo]

Any programS THAT modify the game content OR it's memory Data. NOT just any old 3rd party program. The overlays in Log parser and GINA are not in the game they are overlayed above the window. They don't modify the game merely read the log files.

[@JasonfromEarth]

I am seeing some names you've mentioned start to pop in on the new TAKP Based Quarm server. Are you planning on giving it a try?

[@IonBlaze1]

Not at the moment. I main EQ2 & Kunark comes out Aug 8th. Super excited

[@JasonfromEarth]

@@IonBlaze1 Nice! I am planning on trying the next EQ2 TLP. Way back in the day before TLPs were even an idea I played in a guild which self-pop locked. I played an Ogre Paladin. Was fun!

[@vanman2099]

Lol, I was watching this and was like wtf, that setup looks familiar. Late to the party but I generally view SEQ below MQ2 automation. You can see where stuff is so I get it that it's an unfair advantage, but you still have to kill stuff yourself and if you're using it for solo farming big things you'd probably be running down a box screw, an mq2 crew, or warping to it. I have always thought SEQ should exist pre-built into the game at least as far as player locations. It does get annoying answering a Camp Check every 3 minutes or missing one to have someone come down with a group and take over your camp, I always thought not having a player location visual in game was a missed opportunity to save people time and create less chaos, then you could zone in see where the groups are and what's open at least. I do think Kronos ruined the game, I think it's cool to be able to trade for them to get game time, but I mean...I don't know about you, but my primary demographics are age 30-50 males, and we can all afford a subscription if we're still playing, I think they can get rid of Kronos altogether or at least on the TLPs, like there is literally no purpose for them besides a medium of exchange with RMT value.

[@WhyYouAskingMe]

Kvm keyboard switch is ergonomical too

[@XADIENX]

i dont know, dont think i would play EQ without showEQ----DayBreak will never ban cheaters from experience ( Over 2000 reports/tickets since aradune + Thornblade ) Non of them got action taken against even with video footage.

[@IonBlaze1]

Haha what a joke... No bans even with footage? Jeez

[@Versair]

This is an understatement. You said warping happens "rarely". I can tell you with firsthand knowledge that it happens regularly (i've seen it happen, and I've also been party to a group of folks that used it regularly), just by a smaller portion of the playerbase for obvious reasons of accessibility. I've personally seen a 54 boxer warp on top of KT's head in velious with all 54 boxes just as we were about to pull him. Many of our guildmates were recording. many petitions were sent in. That 54 boxer never went offline for the next 2 months.@@IonBlaze1

[@flybreath2788]

Since EQ is a 20+ year old game the only way to advance is to box, I started playing EQ in 1999, I still ove playing on Karana server , but there are no groups to be found now.

[@IonBlaze1]

Thank you for sharing that :) I wish there were groups. A lot less stressful to play 1 char instead of a few

[@MrThree15]

Really fun video! I knew about it but never seen the stuff on screen. Super cool video!!

[@JoshuaKoitzsch]

You didn’t touch on the most important issue, the economy that comes from Kronos farming keep TLP and Everquest afloat.

[@astockalypse7500]

Very true, there is a whole economy around letting the bot farmers stay. Daybreak is owned by a publicly traded company and is ultimately determined by the balance sheet. They have to balance that with retaining players, but if something brings in money and only causes them to loose an "acceptable" amount of true players, they'll do it. I doubt the vague language will change, because they need it to justify moves they make. I still think this discussion needs to happen though.

[@PharmacyBrain]

Krono purchases directly from daybreak keep EverQuest afloat. Bot farmers lower returns. If all the farmers and bots were banned the only option would be to purchase krono directly at the higher price, which is exactly what they want.

[@IonBlaze1]

That's a really good point. Yeah kronos do affect all this. I just tried to limit the scope of the video.

[@IonBlaze1]

New video: A MicroEconomic Analysis of Krono Farmers The Documentary lol

[@PharmacyBrain]

@@IonBlaze1 please do it. Would love to hear some discussion on the topic. Does it help? Does it hurt? Does it hurt the game but help the company? Ask some players about their experience with krono and krono farmers. Aggressive players locking down epic bottle necks, etc.

[@7K7Y7L7E7]

we ran 56-64 accounts at a time using a few of these. It was awesome and bonkers, but mostly just exhausting.

[@EQOAnostalgia]

Good to see EQ GM's still pull rules out of their arse, and pick and choose when to enforce them. Same ish happened in EQOA lol. "We don't recognize camps" entire server turns into a f'ing deathmatch of trains "ok we kinda recognize camps" FFS!

[@Talis116]

I have no opinion on most of the other stuff... but the comment I'll make on ShowEQ is that unless devs take steps to prevent it, or mass ban people for using it, its always going to be a thing, the software is in such widespread use at this point that anyone not using those tools is having a signifacantly worse game experience than the other people playing, and they don't even understand why they are being beaten to the punch half the time...

[@kirkjv1]

Thanks for the vid! Haven't played in a long long time but this is helping decide about coming back.

[@wolfdar2009]

I personally have never boxed. The only thing I have ever automated is fishing and forage.

[@IonBlaze1]

I prefer not to tbh. Like how you don't need to on p99. Plenty of people to group with. So much better

[@SomeGuy905]

The reason they tolerate MQ2, is about 90% of their subs are using it, and would just quit if not allowed. Also the reason it is bad is because it can destroy a games economy. Ive been turned in several times, and its always out of jealousy and someone just snitching to be a snitch. "I cant figure out how to do that because im not smart enough, so I hate you and will now try to get you banned".

[@duncanwallace7760]

I found that with a merc and my bard, I've been able to do pretty much everything I've needed to do without having to multi-box. It's slow going but so much less annoying, and cheaper, than having to set up boxing.

[@spig3547]

I feel level 2 upwards should be banned but honestly on dead servers I get it, but level 4 can burn in hell.

[@IonBlaze1]

Haha much agreed. Kind of a necessary evil with some but there is a point where it goes too far.

[@spig3547]

@@IonBlaze1 people monopolising spots with 6-12 toons which clearly aren't true boxed should all be perma banned they're literally ruining the game for masses of other people

[@wanglelife]

How would I report botting for popular camps on TLP servers?

[@IonBlaze1]

On the daybreak official website, there's a help page where you can report people. I think the /report or /petition command might bring a popup of the page while in game.

[@andygluehere8266]

You forgot about the MQ plugins, stick , underworld aggro, etc..

[@elcry1920]

I'm not sure if MQ still does it or not but by the end of PoP you could set your weapon delay to 0 so any melee character would basically instant kill any mob raid boss or not the only thing you needed to worry about was retaliates. There were several other very strong things that MQ did or still does that exceed just botting and automation. Between that and show eq you could do just about anything and at just about any level. Devs knew about it too because they would name shadowed men spawned out of bounds named things like "F-Show-EQ-Players" that spawned where nobody could interact with them because they would show up on the mob list.

[@bobbun9630]

Boxing is inevitable in EQ at this point, so take this comment with the knowledge that I understand that... Boxing represents a form of Gresham's Law ("bad money drives out good") for grouping. Finding and keeping a group going in EQ is hard and always has been for most people. Boxing provides a solution to this problem, but the cost is that it makes finding a group that much harder for everyone else because the boxers tend to disappear from the grouping scene afterwards--why would they put in the effort to find or deal with others when they have their solution? For this reason, boxing should never be the default mode of play, and should be tolerated rather than accommodated. If there's a true solution, I don't think it's to make boxing through software botting acceptable. The real solution has been in place for ages in other games. Call it the "WoW solution", though EQ2 mostly has this in place at this point. Establish segregated content for solo and group content. The easiest solution for EQ, as it exists today, would probably be to allow running two mercs at once if not grouped with another player, limited to older zones and non-instanced current content. So DPS classes could have both a tank and a healer available, healers could run both tank and DPS, tanks could run healer and DPS, etc., as long as they were playing solo in designated content. That content would be most of the game, as needed to level and gear up to current maximum level, but would not include the best group content at maximum level or any raid content from the last several expansions. Possibly Daybreak could make some money by selling this option in the pay-to-win store.

[@KetherAinej]

Whay is chronno for and why no people play the subscription via credit card?

[@IonBlaze1]

I worship the almighty Krono!

[@iwinnimi]

I box 6 in eq1 no additional software...alt tab works just fine. I just change the window tints...shaman green cleric purple tank red ext 1 is bound to attack and target window 1..all others target window 1 is set to main assist. Auto set with an in game macro to join a group

[@iwinnimi]

I have 16 account 1 for every class...I just make what ever group I want

[@WeezeBadfishHalen4]

4:25 amen brotha! Id play till PoP myself

[@Shat_Tastic]

i got 7 day vacation for using input director with 5 PC's and this happen a year ago , good times !

[@kobalskar9384]

For me, the worst cheat is by far ShowEQ because of how popular it is. I mean, people feel safe to talk about it in guild discord or even in game. I know good players who use it because "everybody does". Which is false, of course, but they feel lost without it. And the people using it are usually the ones saying rangers are useless or that the game is too easy... Would be funny if not so sad. As you said, it makes the track skill obsolete and it's a real shame. I hope Daybreak finds a way to deal with it but I don't think they will. This ugly cheat has been around since Phinigel and, as far as I know, nothing has been done to remove it.

[@IonBlaze1]

Right there with ya! It's abused so much. Needs to be stopped

[@phillipmayger2086]

The only time I have an issue, is bot farmers. Them I'll report with zero hesitation. I understand multi boxing since server populations tend to be low in leveling areas

[@johndavis2599]

So I box 4 toons on 4 different all access paid accts but on 1 pc....this is considered cheating??

[@pomponthebunny]

With mercenary, origin, POK teleportation stone, AA banker, vendor ... they changed the game A LOT. It's fun to 3 box + 3 mercenary with innerspace (sk/shammy/enchanter). Without that I will not play eq ... just 1 character + mercenary, I will not level fast enough, too much downtime and I will not level for a long time for sure. So they will never have $$ from me. With 3 box, they sure to have some money from me because I will be able to get lvl 80 - 85 without too much problem (probably).

[@pseudocoder78]

It's supposed to be "multi-boxing", why do everquest players call it "boxing"? Makes no sense.

[@jersydvl]

I only ever boxed with either 2 PCs or 2nd installation. Always played both toons manually though.

[@IonBlaze1]

Kudos for doing it the hard way lol

[@jersydvl]

@@IonBlaze1 never seemed hard with only 2 toons

[@suicidalskies8498]

the boxing thing must be fairly new, I used to box 3 characters on 1 computer, my main necro, a beastlord and a cleric, there was no rules against it, at least not that I can remember

[@Ironshirt32]

Are you playing on Oakwynd? The cheating is widely used here. 6 box mage groups fully automated afk botting. Still alot of good honest players but everything you said in this video is happening there now.

[@MrXuegui]

Thank you for laying it all out. I was a true boxxer back (even on dial-up lmao) when the game had high population (up to DoDH before I took a break). I was used to running up to 4 at a time. Like I said, the room gets hot and you engage in a bit of acrobatics to manage all of those keyboards and mice. The extra boxes (beyond 2) tended to be 'simpler' to run, like an assist/nuke or target/heal key. Set those hot keys up! But now, the pop is so low (and levels are much higher)... it is very hard for new players.

[@CrumbRS]

never played EverQuest, in love with your videos

[@abarasabwehttam]

UO had the same stance on UO Assist so many years ago then finally they just added the UO Assist functions in game that were allowed. Was such an awesome QoL upgrade!

[@IonBlaze1]

Hmmm. Thank you for sharing that. Yeah if you can't beat the cheaters/modders, why not implement some of it. Many games do that I think.

[@abarasabwehttam]

@@IonBlaze1 We were talking about it a few months ago with Napalm in XP group on p99. Would be so nice to have some of those options allowed.

[@Smullik]

Darkpaw must have taken Ion out after this expose. Or hes knee deep in diapers going full dad-duty Either way hope alls well!

[@IonBlaze1]

Dad stuff haha. I've been playing with Varietyvoid on his twitch streams sat/sun nights

[@robertb5471]

LOVE THE VIDEO! As long as players aren't causing trouble, hogging specific named, harassing, or generally making others not want to play an MMO, you're not creating a problem. I'm one of the weird players, at my highest, I had 53 gold accounts, and nearly that many FTPs (all on 1 live server). I haven't even sold things in the bazaar in at least 5-7 years. I've done my own little contests where I give away up to 1 million plat to the winner, and I love the game so much, I even bought some stock in EG7 the day I discovered it was available. I used to talk EQ up to everyone I met who played PC games, and I even offered every one of them my support in learning the game. Things changed for me when a lvl 10ish tradeskill mule account, who does nothing but sit in PoK, was banned. I had her automated to accept trades, as I stored things for many people, and gave people whatever they asked for - basically, a community mule. The minute that FTP PoK mule was banned, 52 accounts were canceled. I still play 1 account to keep up with some friends, but that's only occasional, and I doubt I'll ever load another Daybreak / Darkpaw / or Enad Global 7 (EG7) game. I'm blown away that Daybreak doesn't see how the GMs are killing it - you alienate players like me, we take our money away from you - NO ONE WINS. When we added it up, I was spending over $8k a year with monthly subscriptions, new game expansions, some in-game store bought items, and goodies purchased for subscription websites (Allakhazam, EQResource, and yes, Redguides and more). As I see it, I've had horrible experience as a customer, I won't let any EG7 games be played except for the 1 visit account that still exists, and I routinely tell people they should not allow those games in their household either. As a former business owner, it takes 10 good customer experiences to make up for bad customer interactions and I've had a lot of bad interactions. As for having a specific server for automating (Macroquest), EQ2 used to have a "jail" server that basically operated like that. The people in charge recently deleted that server. It's even crossed my mind to ask to rent a server that could have custom rules, but I have ZERO trust daybreak GMs could be trusted. Hoping EG7 or even Daybreak realize their mistakes, provide amnesty to EVERYONE and the shareholders and employees will have a long time of smiling on their way to the bank. If things don't change soon, EQ will either close down or be bought by someone who will be more accepting on making it great (profitable) again.

[@IonBlaze1]

52 gold accounts! Holy smokes that had to hurt the pocket book when you cancelled that. Had no clue about the background EG7 stuff. You could invest in them? Yeah there needs to be a change in ownership bad...

[@nealorr5086]

This video is pretty funny. It's like you can watch the guy descend into madness from "two boxing on two computers is too hard" to "I have to use MacroQuest because there's no way to play the game without it!", Informative, nonetheless.

[@xakoman8003]

I just love how you decided to use a bunch of muscular, topless, kilt wearing B R O S to showcase MQ2 lmai

[@greyfleming4930]

Everquest is a game that allows some people to cheat and bans others for the same or worse. Allowed cheating gives advantages to some players and upsets the balance of the game; even if you suspend a player but allow them to return.

[@taemien9219]

I think Daybreak has gotten a tad more strict, but a few years ago, you were allowed to use some simple botting macros (such as hardware through logitech/razer/corsair mice and keyboards), and some limited programs. The caveat was you couldn't do it unattended. So boxers and others would get banned if they just left their characters run unattended. This stuff isn't allowed at all now. I see many say that the GMs don't action, but on occasion you hear about people complaining about bans and that "well they never banned for this before, why now?" So what happens is they do ban waves and catch a bunch at the same time. What I find amusing in this video is its stated that setting up Innerspace/ISboxer takes a long time, and using it is still manual. This is simply someone trying to justify breaking rules. You don't need IS boxer to run 2-3 boxes. It also doesn't take very long to setup. I've never used this tool in Everquest myself, but I have used Keyclone in World of Warcraft (WotLK era when it was greenlit by developers at the time, not sure if its still allowed). And it has very similar if not identical features. You're looking at a 20 minute setup, or less if following a guide (and there's likely a treasure trove of reddit or forum posts to help you here). Admittedly it became rather boring pretty quickly, so I haven't touched it in about 14-15 years or so. As far as a isboxing groups not being equal to normal players. This is a bit of a misconception. If you run a mixed party, say.. healer, tank, dps, puller, support, etc... then yes, it gets a bit wonky in situations that get out of hand. But if you're playing symmetrically. Such as in EQ you play 6 Magicians where they send in their pets with one keypress and nuke with another. Then the pulls literally die before they can do any damage to the boxes. On live servers it wasn't uncommon to see literally raids of such. An encounter that gives a 6 man party a little trouble, literally melts under 24+ firebolts and 24 pissed off elementals. As for being forced to box and use the programs listed in this video, I've been playing TLP and TLE servers for EQ and EQ2 for almost 15 years now. I've never had to box. I've never had to use one of the programs above. The only programs I've used are parsers which only read a text file that is output by the game literally for the purposes of parsing. I've been able to find groups well into the Dragon's of Norrath timeline even at low levels. There was a remarkable difference when true box was enabled. Groups became more organic, and the experience felt like it was early EQ. If boxers (specifically the ones using all these 'tools') truly wish to box without interfering with non-boxing players. Guess what? You Can! Its called Everquest Emulator. You can have your own little server to box as much as you like and use all the programs you like. But let's be honest. They aren't looking to use these tools to play the game in a manner they think they should, they are playing it to exploit the players who don't. Saying "I wish Daybreak would make a server for all of us to use these tools in would be great" has to be one of the most disingenuous things I have ever heard. They know Daybreak won't do that. And even if they did, they're not going to go there to compete with everyone else there is using the same tools.

[@roemer024]

FINALLY an EQ video talking about ShowEQ! It's so popular that nearly every end game raider is using it or knows someone close using it.. As a ranger main my whole life, it's bullshit... As for every other form of cheating, I don't see it very harmful due to the low volume of people using the strats.. Honestly DBG needs to file a class action lawsuit against SEQ and the game will be a much better place

[@MatthewSmithMS]

I haven't played EQ in years. It is interesting to see this and those tools. I agree with your views to be sure.

[@Connection-Lost]

Loose-lin Sorry, that's just how it is. The word luck has a k in it for a reason.

[@Anasyn_Nysana]

100% agree! Even if you get an account suspended you have no idea what you did wrong. Not only that you no longer have access to your account on the official website to cancel your subscription. Which IMHO is BS. Some players during the suspension could have the account automatically renewed without the consent of the player.

[@IonBlaze1]

What? So you get suspended or banned & you can't log into the website? Can't cancel your sub? That's bad

[@Anasyn_Nysana]

@@IonBlaze1 100%. I just checked again today. They also tried to close my ticket without allowing me to ask further questions. I added more information and customer support have left my ticket open since Thursday.

[@internetgas2020]

If you want to run MQ or other "hacking" programs, you could play on most of the EMU servers. Or you can create your own server and bot/hack to your hearts content. Yeah you don't have a large community but that's why your boxing to begin with, cause there is no community or players to play with

[@TheGlyrion]

Multi-boxing softwares is what keeps the live game going..you're not going to get banned for that lol

[@chadwickmccarty4944]

If/when MacroQuest is officially allowed I'll consider playing & resubscribing again to EQ. Being older now I just don't want to waste the time waiting for a group to complete content & progress at a decent pace & EQ's mercenaries while good in theory suck in execution back a couple of years ago I played for free & subscribed.

[@sunareekaewnat8967]

You forgot ‘ghostkilling.”

[@CHUDWICK111]

mq2 is the shit, there would probably be soo many more people still playing if daybreak would just look the other way. (ghosting was a lot of short lived fun :) ) Currently playing on a True Box server , allows up to 3 accounts per pc. God i miss the map.