Is a coup against Putin the only way to end this? | Danny Finkelstein

“One possible way that this ends when political dictators get into wars is through a surfeit of personal pique and defending their own armed forces, they begin to move against him.”
Is a coup against Putin underway? Matt Chorley talks to Danny Finkelstein on Times Radio about the possibility of Putin’s army turning against him.
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[@blondie1169]

Even if Putin goes , you still left with the same old paranoid Soviet era thinking. The whole regime has to go period.

[@hugoboss917]

Old KGB regime must be cleansed out of Russian politics. Imagine there were ex Nazis in German government!

[@KNByam]

But the next idiot would have to be smarter. Its not saying much but we can only hope.

[@hymns4ever197]

Agreed, but it starts with taking out Putin first, and making him the fall guy. Some of his cronies might not be as steeped in Soviet era thinking. It would all depend as to how badly they lose the war, and how much they would want to make nice with the civilized world.

[@TheBandit7613]

@@hymns4ever197 Then we are still stuck with the whole "Mother Russia" mentality, many Russians don't think like the rest of us in the free world. They show apathy toward Ukrainians yet call them brothers and sisters. And they are perpetual victims.

[@liamr194]

Are you American by any chance?

[@zaphod22]

Unfortunately there's more than Putin to deal with. Too many think like him. The entire command structure needs to be eliminated.

[@salkeld571]

Does this include The House of Lords?Putin Placements are everywhere.

[@electricink3908]

the mentality of the whole country is a problem !

[@TheEvertw]

I expect, when Putin goes, that his replacement will be challenged by his before-then peers. There will be a period of internal struggle where no-one can be arsed with an international war.

[@jonathanodude6660]

do you think any of them are as skilled as him? i doubt anyone capable of challenging putin has been let anywhere near him, and thus no one able has been able to learn from him.

[@mikatu]

The pootin structure is a myth. There are a lot of people around because they are afraid. Anyone against him is just killed or sent to prison. Remove pootin and all of them will get away.

[@qingyuhu]

Not a coup, it's just a special power redistribution operation.

[@pcbacklash_3261]

The host snarkily wondered at the end if the "Putin Burger" -- the presumed replacement for McDonald's -- comes with a plastic toy, a small plastic tank that only moves backwards. He almost got it right. They'll come with a small plastic tank with a turret that pops into the air when you hit it in the right place. Slava Ukraini!

[@bipolarbear9917]

Come on folks! Get your McPootin BurgerZ with a free plastic pop-top tank turret for our Special Operation Price of just 393.99 rubbles.

[@edaneo11]

​@@JossWainwright Russia will give the contract to Muppets like Britain

[@edaneo11]

​@@bipolarbear9917 How much is your electricity bill now, heard cooking is rationed very Britain will be fight for cooking oil just like toilet paper during covid

[@Rune-Thorne]

@@edaneo11 Oh well, at least our incomes are increasing too...I mean we could be Russian, making less while everything costs more.

[@iconoclast2679]

PCBacklash You never tire of this bs do you? Your boys are losing: Surrender en masse in Mariopul, get it?

[@DanA-fk6tl]

"If you're going to run the military, maybe we're going to run the government" hmm!

[@bgregg55]

As long as the FSB runs that country, it'll be like rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic.

[@markduncan6690]

A “Isolated “ Russia is the best course of action for all involved!

[@unggrabb]

Yepp, lock out everywhere.

[@overlord4404]

Well, that didnt go as planned.

[@unggrabb]

@@overlord4404 yet

[@roqsteady5290]

Did everyone think it was a bad idea? Most of the pundits thought that the Russian army would roll over Ukraine in a matter of days. Of course now they know it *was* a bad idea using the retrospectoscope.

[@feedyourmind6713]

No, few of the informed thought it would be a cakewalk walk. But, in the end, Ukraine loses, still.

[@SeanRCope]

Yes, to invade a neighboring country for no real good reason is a very bad idea, unless you can pull off a 3-4 day campaign before anyone can really react. They thought they could and I as a Cold War vet thought they’d do it too. Yet it appears quite a bit of military spending didn’t go where they told Putin it went.

[@roqsteady5290]

@@SeanRCope the military had such respect for Putin that they were trying to emulate him by stealing anything that wasn’t tied down

[@Zerox_Prime]

@@feedyourmind6713 I disagree. Russia cannot replace its lost equipment. Every tank loss finishes finishes them, whereas Ukraine is being armed and rearmed with advanced NATO weapons. Eventually, Russia won't have tanks, artillery, personnel carriers, trucks, or other vehicles. They can't replace their sunken ships, either, nor their aircraft. In a war of attrition, they lose

[@feedyourmind6713]

@@Zerox_Prime Nah, NATO supply lines have been hit by Russian missles, while no Russian supply lines are in danger. Russia has an estimated 12k tanks, Ukraine can field less than a thousand.

[@rtqii]

Oryx confirms that 39% of the prewar Russian combat power has been destroyed in under 90 days.

[@G0Lg0Th4N]

@Sreja Aćimović do you think it's more?

[@mrjerzheel]

Not a chance if they lost 39% we would be seeing Russia collapsing across Ukraine not taking areas like Mariupol, Kherson, Popasnaya

[@overlord4404]

Thats not how it works, and organizations like oryx, belingcat and the like are even less trustworthy than msm

[@pjhgerlach]

A Russian alternative for McDonald's? It's just replacing one clown with another.

[@eenigheid3186]

Do the Russians notice anything without being told to do so? - McDonalds withdrawing.

[@gmf121266]

Taking overall tactical control of the Armed forces didn't end well for someone else 77 years ago.

[@simonmacarthur6808]

So, so true. Also President LBJ over US tactics in Vietnam

[@himoffthequakeroatbox4320]

And someone else, 28 years before that.

[@stevenwilgus5422]

It doesn't matter if they sling him from his big toe, to me. His warped machinations of a glorified Soviet past only exists in his deranged mind. He strung out on roids (both kinds, in all likelihood.) The Soviet Union was rejected because the world moved on.

[@eurodoc6343]

Didn't Nicholas II assume personal command of the military just before Russia collapsed in WWI? Not a good precedent there, Vlad. I'm seeing more proof to the saying that Russia only learns the wrong lessons from its successes, but ignores the more important lessons from its failures.

[@ebrim5013]

Learning lessons from the past requires admitting you made mistakes. That’s the only thing the Russians refuse to do.

[@radishpineapple74]

FYI "Vlad" is a nickname for Vladislav. The actual nickname for Vladimir is Vova or Volodya.

[@mikatu]

Russia never collapsed during WW I. Lenin was sent to Russia to lead a revolution with the promise that if he win we would remove Russia from the war, which he did. In fact, when Russia signed the retreat the comunists were the ones in power.

[@angelopugliese6034]

@@radishpineapple74 Nowadays his name is Vladolf Putler.

[@anitagorse9204]

Dolfy did micromanagement of German army as well...it didn't end well for anybody.

[@anthonychuks2302]

It's a gud idea.......A coup will save the lives of thousands that could still be killed in this bloody battle.

[@tonyarcoraci1336]

You guys are brilliant. From an American, an heartfelt cheerio and ta-ta, you nutters...

[@531c]

I'm mocked for saying cheerio. Apparently it's archaic and no longer common parlance according to my kids. Poppycock!

[@stevenagy88]

@@531c Brilliant

[@mikefricker3603]

I like the interviews but wish the first however many seconds were not a pre-play of part way through the interview

[@tolrem]

Agree.

[@glasgovipsolara]

Yeah, that confused me. Thought it was deja-vue.

[@jerry85g7]

A coup needs to happen.

[@Timzart7]

I see the strongest hope of opposition in or near Putin's circle as being commanders in the military also, because they are the ones who are being held responsible by Putin, undergoing a certain amount of humiliation for their poor performance, made to pay with the lives of soldiers for a war they may not see as necessary for the security or prosperity of Russia. The problem is Putin has had over 20 years to structure security around him in such a way that it makes a coup difficult.

[@juliec5309]

Actually, i think it could be even worst war wise if they succeed in a coup because the military upper echelon are very warmongering . So would change bad for very bad. I hope I'm wrong

[@abbottshaull9831]

@@juliec5309 the warmongering is due to the collective institutions of how Armed Forces are to conduct war. Along with the fact, they aren't held accountable for their action until they fail on grand scale. Also surgical type strikes isn't part of the military way of doing things. Just total brutally is the way they how to conduct war.

[@buzzukfiftythree]

@@juliec5309 They may be warmongers, but they can only fight if the army is behind them. Right now, if we're to believe Western intelligence sources, there may not be enough willing soldiers left to fight on the ground.

[@feedyourmind6713]

Bit they're winning, so why do you believe Russian Gen'ls should fear their boss?

[@miketaylor5212]

they actually have no powerbase.

[@willmac1748]

The west needs to send a msg that the oligarchs can get their situation made better if Putin is not in power

[@rtqii]

That has been done.

[@bobjohnbowles]

Any reparations for the damage to Ukraine are likely to have to come from the oligarchs, so that message has to quite nuanced.

[@roqsteady5290]

So we should give them back what they stole from the Russian people in the first place? Much better to use it as reparation for Ukraine, but also to support Russia if they finally elect domeone sensible like Navalny, but that is wishful thinking.

[@overlord4404]

@@roqsteady5290 navalny and sensible do not go in the same sentence. Did you forget that this guy advocated for total destruction of Georgia?

[@roqsteady5290]

@@overlord4404 His views have changed over the past few decades, he has moved away from a nationalist position and publicly apologised for his remarks about Georgia. In any case he is a lot more sensible than Putin, but that isnt hard.

[@larrysfarris]

Great show…and so on….

[@AlienCow24]

International sanctions & inflation has already irked the general Russian population & looking at the numbers of high ranking officials committing suicides, it is very likely that a substantial faction within the Kremlin would not be happy & pleased by current circumstances surrounding the entire nation.

[@cooldudecs]

Putin is trying to gain Allies which is failing because no one wants to be sanctioned into oblivion

[@angelopugliese6034]

You don't really think they committed suicide do you?

[@AlienCow24]

@@angelopugliese6034 They didn't. They were executed Putin style probably for disagreeing with him on state matters or objecting.

[@overlord4404]

"international" is a funny way to say NATO

[@AlienCow24]

@@overlord4404 Australia, New Zealand, South Korea & Japan are not NATO members.

[@raycope2086]

Assad must be " bricking it " at the thought of his main backer losing its army.

[@reidtanner5978]

I bet he is. 🤣😏🤪

[@geoffcurrie5508]

YES!!!

[@SnoopyDoofie]

They can open a new franchise and call it McPutin...freshly slaughtered meat served daily.

[@rickjohnson9558]

Someone with no experience in commanding large bodies of troops taking charge is usually a prelude to disaster---ask General Paulus, among others.

[@roqsteady5290]

Yes I was thinking of Battle of the Bulge, but that is another good example.

[@haymaker710]

I'm going to the McPutin in Moscow and I'm going to order an Unhappy Meal.

[@PsychicLord]

Sir Winston Churchill was a Lieutenant-Colonel and had more than 25 active years serving in the military.

[@mikatu]

Exactly. Churchill was one of the most experienced military in the real. He fought in several wars in the colonies, mainly against the Boers in South Africa. He failed in Galipoli however.

[@MrBlaxjax]

He was 'just' a colonel though. Apart from the well known disaster at Gallipoli there was the Italian campaign of ww2. I don't think anyone really wanted that except Churchill. It's doubtful that the campaign in Italy was worth the cost in lives or treasure for what it gained. The intensive bombing campaign over Germany was iffy wasn't it? It was analogous to current indiscriminate attacks on Ukrainian civilians carried out by Russia and possibly for similar reasons. He did excellent stuff too. As a politician fighting the political war he was fabulous, his intelligence war was brilliant, he was great at breaking down economic bottlenecks, and the setup of units such as the SAS, commandos and SOE was terrific. It would be great if there was some kind of democratic mechanism to override politicians when they are making a blunder. Main problem is that the grand strategy and aims of any war have to be set by politicians, and 'unfortunately' they are actually in charge no matter how error-prone.

[@plunketgreene3646]

@@MrBlaxjax All good points, but one thing you leave out is that Churchill's generals had the courage to stand up to him when they thought he was wrong, with no fear for their lives or safety or that of their families.

[@johnritter5951]

Russia's last tzar, Nicholas, also took over direct command of the war effort in WW I with bad results. He replaced his own uncle (also a Nicholas) who was a highly respected commander of their military. Why did he do it? Because his wife nagged him to do so until he did so. Why did she do it? Because her personal guru, Rasputin, told her that God told him it was necessary. Women and occult religious dudes...always a deadly combination. Indeed, the failing war effort fueled the communist (Bolshevik) takeover of the country. They in turn executed the tzar and his whole family, herded them all into a basement and shot them all to death. I guess you could call that a "coup." In any event, it led to them getting out of WW I.

[@briancarno8837]

only snag is Putin hasnt taken control of the war what makes you think 2 guys sat on their arses in London know what is happening in Russia..?

[@AlienCow24]

Not exactly. There are other powerful players in Moscow who would definitely want to see an end to Putin's sxploitations & escapades. They can choose to assassinate Putin first before executing a coup within the higher ranks of the Kremlin. This also has to involve the general population & more than a couple of high ranked officials from Putin's inner circle if they want to succeed.

[@edaneo11]

I guess the British did that to the Irish and are still in Northern Ireland

[@feedyourmind6713]

Did MSNBC tell you that?

[@AlienCow24]

@@feedyourmind6713 No it wasn't MSNBC. I'm from India & watched a talk show on national news channel of military experts & analysts on how this crisis could stop.

[@feedyourmind6713]

@@AlienCow24 Well, you're being ill-informed, 'cause Vlad is under no threats. Their economy took a harder hit from sanctions due to its Crimea action, so Vlad stock up. Military they're seeing success, winning Genls don't off their commander. This is just more Western hopeful propaganda, via Indian sources. Which is weird, considering Indias' position regarding this war.

[@daverobinson6110]

Nah. Russians are like Americans, they are too lazy for revolution.

[@juniormartindale4690]

Do you really think a "moderate" will assume power? Be careful what you ask for.

[@cliffperkin63]

Yes I do think a "moderate " two actually will be interim joint govt, Gary Kasparov and Navalny , OK!!!🏆🎀🥇💎💮😄⚔️🌸🏠🏵️🇦🇺💐🎁💍🪅✌️🗝️🌻🌹🎉🪙🎯💯🌍

[@juniormartindale4690]

@@cliffperkin63 You are obviously joking and I'm willing to laugh with you.

[@juniormartindale4690]

@bruce parka How are those options looking now? The New York Times. And now Dr. Kissinger. Everyone is about to cut and run.

[@alexandruraresdatcu]

Russian tanks do not go backwards, they make the turret fly high!

[@Sommerchan]

The new happy meal will be accompanied with a turret less Russian tank toy.

[@belong53]

A McDonalds or no McDonalds is not a measure of national isolation.

[@HawaiiTalks]

Woah.

[@sailor583]

Yes

[@geoffgill5334]

Any kind of luck maybe Putin will go to Ukraine and suffer the same fate of 10 of his generals

[@PalleRasmussen]

Yes, any other questions.

[@SeemoreDunkan]

Yes.

[@alantoon5708]

Yes...

[@timleader8817]

War never really achieves anything

[@gerilovett89]

Kinda want to try a "big Putin" or "Z burger". Not a fan of war. Big fan of burgers

[@dr.andreasleofaulstich4125]

I wouldn't eat or drink anything at McPutins.

[@duckcensorship7446]

Novichok Burger!

[@Katoshi_Takagumi]

It's perfectly all right for Mr Putin to assume operational command. We all need our little hobbies to make life a fuller experience. He needs to be careful with coffee stains on the operational maps, of course.

[@alantoon5708]

That is actually a good thing....

[@ericconnor8419]

I thought he had a day job, but I guess a small country like Russia requires very little management.

[@Katoshi_Takagumi]

@@ericconnor8419 I believe Mr Putin works very hard every single day, how else could you become so filthy rich leading a small country like Russia. Work hard, play hard, seems to hold true in his case.

[@sukalanger]

I think the Czar took command in WW1 too before the disaster

[@Katoshi_Takagumi]

@@sukalanger Yes, the czar took over as supreme commander in 1915 and moved to Stavka. Didn't help the war effort, improve the military situation, or do any good when it came to running the country. TBH, though, there were other factors as well such as high atrition rate for officers and a chronic shortage of ordnance and equipment for the troops.

[@bec5250]

Russians seem to confuse brutality with skill.

[@grumpyoldefarte5430]

The Putin burger and the Z mac 🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂

[@mastercommander4535]

I think the pre play is very confusing…makes you think they have been discussing something prior to your joining and then you have to listen to it repeated . Not a good idea …drop it !

[@gaius_enceladus]

With McDonald's leaving, maybe we'll see "McBorschtski's". "No burger for YOU! You have borscht or nothing!"

[@BigYouDog]

Take the family to Vladi P's, for a patriotic "Z" burger and a free toy tank that has for that authentic touch, a spring under the turret.

[@Zenon00007]

❤️Ukrainians🇬🇪

[@WhiteDragon689]

I want to hear the news that pootin has been deposed and is on the run for his life.

[@overlord4404]

Knowing western and Ukro media you probably will, only problem is, it will be like snake island and ghost of kiev.

[@timleader8817]

At least its not scaremongering open and honest respect

[@damoinau]

Somebody inside Mount Doom has to stop Sauron and his Orcs.

[@timleader8817]

No sanctions ??

[@guelphguy2779]

Like tsar Nicholas taking charge in the first world war. That didn't end well either.

[@janinehiggins1507]

Yes just get rid of him 🤣👍🇬🇧

[@timleader8817]

Not to.mention the kgb Anglaise

[@seaman651]

The only way to really end this is to have Russia without an army and saying sorry to the rest of the world for 200 years from now on.

[@Ferreira019760]

So in some time Russians will be able to order McPutin burgers with Lenine Cola and perhaps Stalin fries and a little toy Sputnik that kids can throw at each other’s heads trying to get it in orbit. They could call it the happy comrade meal. Only 4.99 rubbles. Who’s your favourite tovarish?

[@gregherd6936]

So excited that Putin is directing operations...equals losing big time

[@zhugeliange5816]

That fool ain't stepping down.

[@theobserver9131]

Of course it's not the only way it could end. But it's probably the best way.

[@genebaughbba3479]

There is no way to end this until it's finished

[@babymarifosque5062]

ASAP please

[@jannetteberends8730]

Macdonald has already left. Only young people in the cities went there. I saw interviews with them, they’ll it. But it is a small group.

[@lafreeman4558]

Yes... OR drive every Russian out of Ukraines territory. Which would basically force a coup anyway. The third option is to wait for mother nature to get the job done. I don't support waiting.

[@noneofyourbusiness150]

God I hope they get rid of Putin

[@edwardsianski725]

McPutin burgers come with a secret source.

[@mandolinic]

You might say that MacDonalds will soon burger off out of Russia...

[@jazzleman]

Why did the speakers forget to consider that all the intelligence suggested Kyiv would fall in 3 days at the beginning of the war?

[@thruknobulaxii2020]

Oh no, not scary at all now, are they? I expect you could poke them with a stick, couldn’t you? And they’re so dumb aren’t they? Not scary at all now. They never scared me anyway. _Hey guys?_ I freakin love you guys. ------- For the record, I think NATO should have been more involved from the get go.

[@fmkwok9022]

Coup Coup Coup - What Coup are they talking about? So far nothing happened 😃😃

[@laurentbeaulieu4443]

This is how Tsar Nicholas II lost his throne, he assumed direct command of the army and it was a disaster.

[@nancylamott8088]

Never under estimate your enemy and let your guard down in WAR. So far so much atrocities our generations have to live with and have what will become with all the worlds children watching this live on TV. Horrific

[@winstonmaraj8029]

Is this a real question?

[@nigelpayne1236]

At least Churchill was a Colonel in WWI with active service on the Western Front and in WWII had very professional advisors who kept his flights of fancy in check.

[@2Dylandog]

I thought he was First Lord of the Admiralty and was responsible for the disastrous Gallipoli campaign.

[@seanmgr1]

There is still McDonald’s franchises throughout Russia. Just the main company stores closed down

[@timleader8817]

Really no kidding??

[@cdcopley8207]

"Experts" have been OVER ESTIMATING Russian capabilities for a 100 years.

[@billgiles3261]

When one pushes the little Russian plastic tank forward the turret pops off like a jack in the box followed by three little plastic figures marked with realistic blood coloured paint.

[@cliffperkin63]

Apparently the russian Toy factory being poo poo poo tin capitalist have done a deal with Eukraine to send back wrecked tanks to be made into toy tanks (splendid recycling good for the planet idea)thus adding authenticity to the idea and if they fall apart or break the child learns an important life lesson ,can't trust anything to work properly if made in russia !!!🏆🎀🥇💎💮😄⚔️🌸🏠🏵️🇦🇺💐🎁💍🪅✌️🗝️🌻🌹🎉🪙🎯💯🌍

[@jevgenirusai9069]

algo

[@albo181]

mmm a "Z" burger...served with a McPutin patty, cold-war coleslaw, Rusty-tank fries, a red-army salami and a nuclear-green gulag smoothie

[@julieannejoolz]

Putin Berger coming with a little plastic tank that goes backwards..hahahaa..🤣

[@ianport2185]

Salisbury: tourism Ukraine: special operation Now, like Nicholas II, he's gone to Stavka. Go figure.

[@peterhavord5984]

Russia is doomed

[@leedaero]

Don’t put the bomb under the table.

[@stevemccall5825]

Their tanks are also known as Sputnik 2

[@jeffreyuprichard3754]

No, it's a special design mod that turns them into convertibles in hot weather. Clever.

[@noneofyourbusiness150]

Interesting point about McDonald's

[@markmonaghan2309]

No , but it's the quickest.

[@gargoyles9999]

With McDonald’s gone all they are going to have left is Mc Dostoevsky 🎶Ba da da da da life is meaningless🎶

[@georgedoolittle7574]

"Life after Putin" now well underway absolutely.

[@ultimatetruth3647]

Sooner the better not only for Ukraine but for Russia slso before more and more lives are lost in Putin 's madness continues.

[@museme6945]

Coup coup clock... tick tock..

[@guyvert49]

Czar Nikolas took overall control of the armed forces in WW1 which ultimately led to his own demise

[@jacquihunter4260]

Putin certainly knows how to separate people, first in Crimea, then supporting separatists in Donbas, then the whole of Ukraine from Russia, then almost all of the western world, now causing starvation & famine by blocking grain & other food from reaching under developed countries. What could he possibly gain from all this harm?

[@Andygb78]

Did he valorise Valery Gerasimov?

[@Dogboy2004]

Times radio, your one sided journalism is amazing, I have learnt so much since c$vid times about how all this works, it is quite amazing to watch , feed the people and they will follow 👏👏👏👏

[@Dogboy2004]

@desli snortum no I'm not russian, the only way out of this is peace, not war crys , NATO has western people beating the same drum as them, peace talks is the only way out, not sending billions in weapons and NATO advancements

[@barriewilliams4526]

Beware of thinking that you are cleverer than you actually are🤔

[@sitaroutreachministry6289]

If true, all GOP conservatives are in a world of hurt.

[@christopherellis2663]

Car Nikolas did the same, it did not go well.

[@jorr1334]

Does anyone think they know what the russian generals will do if they take putin out? will they escalate and expand the war or will this cause a civil war?

[@harperwelch5147]

Odd to propose an “only solution” that is really not within our grasp. Perhaps other more realistic methods should be focused on.

[@chirpywiggins5796]

This will go nuclear, as this channel has often said.