IS ABADDON THE ONLY HOPE OF CHAOS? TIES OF THE PRIMARCHS!

Hey everyone Rho here! Today we're discussing Abaddon the Despoiler! As we ask if he is truly the only hope of a Chaos Victory?
Spoiler Warning to Begin as the events we're discussing today are from the Warhammer 40,000 novel "The Lords of Silence" by author Chris Wraight. As always I really recommend you read the stories for yourself first, without spoilers! As that's the best way to enjoy the lore for yourself!
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[@Kristian.B.Kristiansen]

I have always loved that line from Typhus. It makes sense. Both Abaddon and Typhus are some of the most focused and Long War minded legionaries. For them, fighting the Imperium is simply why they get up in the morning.

[@nocturnowl_0100]

I'd love to see abbadon and huron double dragon their abilities and goals. But I get the feeling that no one would let those two stand as equals undivided.

[@Kristian.B.Kristiansen]

They have fought in the same campaign before. In the novel Pandorax.

[@r.walker6577]

The loyalist brothers (so far) have the chance for reflection, while the traitor brothers are too high on Chaos to think straight.

[@blackfire0x0]

I like thinking that if Lorgar is perhaps a sycophant of chaos undivided, Horus can be the chaos undivided's champion, I like to think of Perturabo as the ideal of Chaos scorned. Used as a weapon but hated as anything else. The idea of a fallen primarch who scorned the chaos gods and represents a shadow of chaos's blessing.

[@headlibrarian1996]

Abaddon hasn’t been about family since he went Chaos. Chaos is inevitably the abandonment of family and true loyalty for personal power, domination, and self-aggrandizement. He demands obedience, but he offers nothing in return, not any more, and wouldn’t hesitate to sacrifice “family” to achieve his goals. That makes a mockery of claims to family and fealty.

[@ryansauchuk7290]

Dragan: Relax Typhon everything is gonna turn out fine, it’s not like this’ll lead to something crazy like the garden bursting into flames

[@ColCoal]

Abbadon: "I do not fight for the chaos gods.I fight for myself! I fight for US! I will free humanity from the imperium and conquer it for us. We choose our own fate!" TTS Tzeentzch: "Think so buddy boi!!!!!????"

[@licensed_beheader]

He suffers from the same chronic stupidity as his father as evidenced by his delusion that he has chaos at his grasp same thing as Horus. They'll use him and discard him more quickly than he can discard them.

[@Scott.webb64]

If Mortarion was the only primarch a SM had contact with, i get why they would be Jaded and be ok with following someone like Abaddon. Ive had leaders who were absolute garbage, that other garbage that didnt smell as bad was better by comparasion. I wonder how some of these folks would have felt if they followed the Lion or Russ back during the great crusade. I also liked how Typhus is pissed at Morty for feuding with Gman calling it "selfish" while also casually flexing he "sacrificed his legions souls" doing so for purely selfish reasons.

[@xzenitramx666]

Funny how they think that the loyalists are like them, the copium in his breath alone can kill a titan.

[@user-zc1hn8jb7p]

Oh yea its about Family alright. In the next installment of the black legion, Toretto is going to travel 40,000 years into the future to meet Abaddon just to let him known that they are blood related 😂

[@jasonpatrignani4717]

Mi Familia

[@CountDVB]

I'm still wondering if Peturabo would end under the influence of Vashtorr the Arkifane

[@benbauer1257]

I’m thinking he will, and he’ll be the prince of that power. Because just like Slannesh came into being with the fall of the eldar, she there after ALWAYS existed. So if vashtorr ascends then he will ALWAYS HAVE BEEN a chaos god.

[@benives254]

​@@benbauer1257 I _hate_ chaos temporal mechanics.

[@Grubnar]

@@benives254 You remind me of a scene from Star Trek: Deep Space Nine. Miles O'Brien travels forward in time to try and figure out what is going on, and meets himself, but is now dying from radiation poisoning. Miles 2: "Wait, but if you are me from the past, and you are sick, shouldn't I be sick now as well?" Miles 1: "..." Miles 2: "..." Both together: "I hate time travel!"

[@Iceisnice1]

I mean, he's no Huron, but he a'ight.

[@Prophetofthe8thLegion]

What’s this…a reasonable statement?

[@licensed_beheader]

He's an og traitor and fought in the siege which actually gives him points when gathering other og astartes of the "long war" in his crusades. Huron is seen as an upstart worth a glance and audience at best .

[@Iceisnice1]

@@licensed_beheader A glance and audience and a blackstone fortress ;D

[@user-zg3ld3jv2j]

He lead all Chaos legions under one banner.

[@licensed_beheader]

@@Iceisnice1 The fortress was given by abbadon. The og traitors wouldn't have given him anything unless ordered by abbadon or the gods they serve. They barely tolerate other "long war veterans" and one of the big reasons is because they all fought and bled together at the walls of the "false emperor". And even then they still look down on and backstab the others at the earliest convenience.

[@johnlucas2838]

The reasons why the Daemon Primarchs target the Primarchs is because they are their greatest threats. They know each other in a higher capacity to everything else. They know how they operate, they know how they think and act, they are on the same levels to contend against each other. That is why they view them as the greatest threat because each of them can prepare against each other. Without any threats, they'd be peerless and would simply mow down hordes of those who cannot contend.

[@licensed_beheader]

They are spiteful bastards trying to drag their brothers into the filth they now revel in. Jaghatai said it best they tasted the fruit of treachery and found it bitter so they'll try to corrupt their brothers as a coping mechanism to justify their terrible actions. Misery does love company.

[@jellydamgood]

Chaos already won. Way back when Magnus broke the Terran veil, when Horus broke the Emperor. So what if they "lost" the war? Now the 40k universe is embroiled in an endless amount of it, which equates to a nigh infinite supply of sustenance, worship and power for the gods of chaos. This is without a doubt the best outcome the gods of chaos could have hoped for, ceasless chaos. What Abandon is striving for is his own goals, not chaos'. But because of the untold suffering it is bound to bring, the chaos gods are all to glad to help him achieve it.

[@slackeratlarge575]

Perterabo is going to ally with Vashtor. It makes sense. As far as chaos can make sense.

[@burniejarvis9298]

Abaddon's claim of not being corrupted by chaos sounds like a druggie trying to argue they don't have a problem "I swear, bro, i'm not a puppet of Chaos an addict, i've got it totally under control. oh, this sword inhabited by one of the most powerful daemons ever needle you found in my crib? nah, it's totally unrelated to any problem i might have, and sure I do the Gods' biddings but only when I want to, and i swear i've got it under control."

[@Kristian.B.Kristiansen]

It's not about corruption, it's about selling your soul. And like it or not, Abaddon hasn't! Even when he temporarily lost all his warp gifts, he barely staggered. All because he keeps control of his own will. That is simply canon lore.

[@gunthergiel7088]

Abby might be armles or harmles but corrupt He is not

[@burniejarvis9298]

Walks like a duck quacks like a duck is all I'm gonna say about he has his Soul. He is a pawn. Soul or no soul only he thinks differently.

[@Kristian.B.Kristiansen]

@@burniejarvis9298 He, and the official canon lore.

[@burniejarvis9298]

​@@Kristian.B.KristiansenCanon or not he isn't the master pulling the strings he is the puppet that's my point. But you keep focusing on his soul. He is corrupted. And is dancing just the way his masters want.

[@TK199999]

Abaddon has been slave to Dark Gods this whole time. It would be ironic if Vashtorr awaken him to the fact, that no matter how hard he tries he will never escape their chains.

[@garypipe1770]

For the traitor primarchs its not actually been 10,000 years as time in the warp moves differently. Its been a much shorter time so for them the pain will be a lot fresher

[@PumpkinHoard]

That's the thing, the warp goes both ways. It could just as easily have been 10,000,000 years as 10 years.

[@garypipe1770]

@@PumpkinHoard very true indeed

[@james460xvryee]

I’m just hoping either Valdor or the Khan return next.

[@MrJara1018]

Fulgrims os obviously next, and I’d love the khan to smack that sucka

[@west-vf7qj]

Russ or Corax

[@billyireland4890]

Valdor or Vulkan....maybe Dorn... for me UNLESS Mortarion can be redeemed somehow.

[@epiccthulu]

I have this dream that Tyberos the Red Wake will reveal he is Konrad Cruz….

[@arionofotherworld]

'Victory'... not a concept that the Chaos powers are trully interested in. Maintaining things as they are, in a constant state of flux, mayhem and warfare now suits the Powers in both the material realm and the warp.

[@farnball1]

Perturabo and the Iron Warriors are the only ones who can organize & support a major offensive against the Imperium and the Nids. Prove me wrong!

[@mphoramathe1801]

Lol. Typhus is the last person allowed to talk😂 "you don't get to bitch about Primarchs when you're responsible for for you owns corruption, Typhus"😂

[@MisterStrawberryLove]

Vengeance for the first master of the hunt!!! 🔥☄️ Very astute observation as always Wolf 🤔

[@Kristian.B.Kristiansen]

That would be a long time coming! Jubals duel with Abaddon is one of the highlights of the early Siege, and I would like the current White Scars to perhaps fight the Black Legion a bit.

[@ericmumper6821]

I just started the new Lion novel and I know you did a video on it, but I had a thought: if the man in the boat is the Emperor and the water is the Warp and the dark shadows are the Ruinous Powers, what is the Emperor fishing for?

[@practiceperfect2329]

No this guy right here! We need answers.....what would he be fishing for? Our souls some to be enlighten or tossed back. Our simply us cause humans and eldar are fish in the stream.

[@eloylopez9834]

Oh I see a lot of things to be cleansed with fire in here. 🤘😊🖤

[@peterga3658]

the Lion and his Legion couldnt think "the bigger picture not in the past or now . all the think is getting back on the fallen

[@RSBurgener]

You're gonna open this can of worms (sigh). Okay. I'll try not to rant this time and just put down the basics. GW could do SO much with Perturabo. He's the most sane. He's got the most tactical accumen. He has a Legion to be utterly feared. He's got one of the most intriguing psychological profiles and the most complexity of character. But no, they'd rather bring back King Kong with bat wings for their heroes to beat up on. In other words, they'd rather have a one-sided monster fight instead of the character-driven, thought-provoking story that the return of Perturabo would require. And that's disappointing to me. I fear they're going to do that to Fulgrim next. How many times have they done it to Abaddon? He's a meme now and a byword for failure. At least I don't have to watch that happen to my favorite Primarch.

[@Kristian.B.Kristiansen]

And that meme is a lie. The Failbaddon meme was never true! The fanbase is/was simply wrong.

[@r.walker6577]

Since GW probably intends to bring back all the Primarchs, perhaps they are saving him for last for those reasons. Once Perturabo makes his move is there any need for another Primarch?

[@v02max75]

The problem i have with Abaddon is that he seems like the quintessential "bad guy". Hes a bad guy just to be a bad guy, moustache twirling and all. Northern Exile did a deep dove on who might be a better candidate and there is a Night Lord marine that seems to tick all of the boxes and is a real CHARACTER, not just a "bad guy". Now, i dont know a tob about the lore but Abaddon just seems....boring for a main antagonist. And with the rise of Vashtorr and the Dark Mechanicum, i actually think Perty might be a better General(petilent man-child not withstanding). Just seems kinda perfect that Vashtorr and Perturabo are both all about technology. I dunno, i just dont think Abaddon is "the guy" to lead Chaos to victory

[@YourHighnessIV]

Huron: Allow me to introduce myself

[@kriegsmanalpharius]

Peter turbo is a petulant man child but he's the best of them

[@Jaszunai]

I don't think the loyal Primarchs are focused on their rivalry with the Chaos Primarchs, but I do think they have other priorities higher than the Imperium, like their homeworlds and their sons. If Roboute had to choose between Terra and Ultramar, I think he would try and find a way to move the Emperor to Ultramar.

[@trajanfidelis1532]

Hydra Dominatus

[@noahspain2734]

Ezekyle "got that smoke" abbadon

[@dylanchampion9948]

please do an audio book

[@fostegg1]

Imo the fall n loss of perturabo to chaos was tragic ,in earlier books him saving people others thought lost was great.

[@gungasc]

The only threat to Abaddon is a punch from an ork.

[@elmine7707]

The Warsmith Honsu as well as Blackheart of the Red Corsairs both are in the running in my opinion. But your point still stands, the Primarchs cannot grow beyond their family feud to truly lead chaos. But can you really blame them? How often do we do petty shit to one up our siblings? And there is a whole industry built around daddy issues. But that's just my take on it

[@Born-Bitter]

The Red Corsairs stories are always fun.

[@elmine7707]

@@Born-Bitter oh yeah, an Huron is one of those Astarte that you kinda root for, even if it's heretical

[@matthewross3162]

The lion seems like he has learnt from his mistakes, the traiter Primarchs were always the mentally weakest.

[@sakomanlee]

But which 40K characters probably smoke cigs? I am going with Lorgar, Konrad, Malcador, and every Catachan Marine. Though the Catachan probably smoke cigars.

[@toi_techno]

"Despoiler warning, with that said..."

[@Grubnar]

Angron Mortarion Magnus Fulgrim all serve just one of the four false gods of chaos. Konrad checked out. Perturabo Alpharius don't serve chaos So that leaves only Lorgar

[@Kctubes]

When king falls his sons inherits not brother

[@crondog]

GW killing Abaddon off would be such a baller move. Maybe Vashtorr can betray him once he has his new toy. No idea who would replace him though. All the names chaos marines I can think of either suck or wouldn't fit the role.

[@arionofotherworld]

Huron Blackheart, he rapidly established a small Empire within/around the Malestom and has none of the Horus Heresy baggage.

[@stewartthorpe2533]

More like abaddon all hope 🥁

[@Arex778]

Huron Blackheart for warmaster.

[@Nurriek]

>Huron Blackheart would like to know your location.

[@MrJara1018]

Pturbo could get it done, he capacity but probably not the will too.

[@dennisbendixen7138]

The Traitors Primarchs are slaves and have thereby lost the ability to be a Warmaster. Had Konrad or Alpharious been there then maybe

[@Nah_Bohdi]

I think he is pretty alright guy.

[@travisadams9268]

Well all know why Lorgar is in self imposed meditation. He is hiding from Corax he dont want no smoke with him.

[@tero2535]

Abaddon is used he knows that or not

[@burniejarvis9298]

That's always annoyed me claims he uses chaos and literally does what chaos wants and is covered in Chaos symbols.

[@____________838]

Clearly not. Black Legion falling, Red Corsairs ascendant.

[@timothybaker1038]

If Abaddon became archaon he’d be a better story driver GW had waste Abaddon story which makes me a bit sad on the lore side of things

[@Subject_Keter]

I am still of the opinion for "Long War Enjoyers" Chaos is like D tier, the Avengers and Xmen making them look bad.😊

[@kaptenbear1395]

Abaddon would get clapped by the Lion before he even realized what was happening. The Lion swings his sword so fast that even Konrad Curze failed to register what just happened.

[@LoveStrangeDr]

The Lion is older, and noticed he’s slower due to age.

[@mikeylejan8849]

Chaos cannot win because it in chaos.

[@oldeskul]

With the loyalist primarchs returning one-by-one, I believe this is better for the Imperium as the traitor primarchs become singularly focused on trying to corrupt or kill their loyalist brothers. When Guilleman's return, the traitor forces suffered massive losses trying to kill or contain him. When Magnus pursued Guilleman through the webway and onto the surface of Luna, the Ultramarines and allied forces did an amazing job at containing the Thousand Sons and inflicting massive casualties on them until reinforcements arrived in the form of Custodes, Sisters of Silence and Imperial Fists. Guilleman has shown himself to be a brilliant tactician, and a cunning and capable statesman as he is trying to put the Imperium back together. With the Lion returning, he has brought fear to the traitor legions, something they haven't felt in a long time. The Lion has an instinctual understanding of combat which allows him to respond to any opponent or enemy, plus he's the Emperor's exterminator and he uses the skill he fomented living by himself in the forest of Caliban, slaying all manner of chaos and chaos-tainted bests before being taken in by the Knights of Luther, to effectively make war against the enemies of mankind. When you look at the primarchs, both traitor and loyalist, most of them had disdain, if not outright hatred, for one another. Yes, there were those who had a close relationship with some of their brothers, in fact most of the loyalist primarchs didn't like each other, with Sanginius being the exception, as everyone loved the glorious hawk boy. The main difference between the traitor and the loyalist primarchs, other than the loyalists not drinking the chaos kool aid, was that the loyalists were able to put their disdain for one another aside long enough to fight as a cohesive force against their traitor brothers.

[@DD8842]

You mean to tell me primar hs bowed to a space marine?

[@user-fv1kh7ku3v]

The strongest Chaos champion, lol.

[@sanjablazina2879]

He is such a bad don.

[@jasonpatrignani4717]

The Primarchs are literally physical embodiments of some level of primordial/elemental forces. They have said many times that they are naturally drawn towards each other by means they don’t understand. As much as Abaddon is impressive, I have never found him to actually meet the level of grandeur they keep tryin to give him in the lore. The Primarchs have the capacity to learn and evolve at a level magnitudes faster than a space marine so the idea that they are incapable of moving past the “Child King” phase is laughable. Unfortunately for the traitors their primarchs had serious character flaws that precipitated their fall, but as far as the loyalists go, we have seen them have to examine almost every facet of who they are and come to their own conclusions. Guilliman is found doing this throughout the Dawn of Fire, and Plague Wars story lines. Russ finds out probably most aggressively by getting stabbed by his own spear in Wolfsbane, and now even the Lion is shown to be substantially more reflective and discerning than any of his long lived sons ever thought him capable of being. So really, in Typhus’s experience he is severely limited by his exposure to primarily the Traitor Primarchs…Abaddon is Chaos’s only hope because GW says he is, but especially will the Loyal Primarchs coming back they will have to do something to make him matter more, because I’m sorry, but even with his pretty sword they idea that a space marine can 1 v 1 a Primarch is laughable

[@judgedreddthelaw3418]

In the name of the Emperor, burn the heretic, slay the mutant, purge the xenos.

[@user-fv1kh7ku3v]

You need to start with Emperor, lol

[@soulripper3836]

you bring up some great points about Abaddon but counter point Abaddon sucks because he has only managed to break Cadia after 13 crusades and also Abaddon is bald.

[@user-fv1kh7ku3v]

You are idiot, lol. Abbadon do that only now (13 th crusade) because before he only gain intels, allyes, knowledge, sourse of power, preparation and itc (it was true nature of previous crusades). Abbadon has no time problem so why he need to rush his project aka Imperium destraction.

[@Grim-Crusader]

Ah yes, Abadon the armless...

[@jamricsloe]

No character arc. Their personalities frozen.

[@alexrowe7063]

I really think your gassing up abadon more than he's worth.

[@johnlucas2838]

Chaos's only hope is the Black Legion. And Abaddon commands the Black Legion.

[@reddeaddylan1606]

He’s not even a primarch. His sword makes him strong.

[@armourofcontempt]

I absolutely hate that a name so awesome as Khalas Typhon, could be changed to Typhus. Yuck. Khalas literally means "Stop. Enough already." Sometimes GW and BL makes a bad decision. This name change is one of them.

[@MWH12085]

Only hope huh......yikes...

[@xzenitramx666]

No he makes his own mistakes.

[@justicar5]

Failbadon the Armless? I hope not, he is an awful character, especially in (most) of the book series (ADB excluded), where he doesn't even manage to hit Saturday morning villain

[@thomasa8814]

I think Abbadon is boring. Seems so one dimensional and that one dimension is plot armor lol

[@user-fv1kh7ku3v]

Several mistakes in Gulliman name, lol

[@hexesandheroes]

Abaddon needs to be replaced. He isn't special and I wish he'd be purged.

[@sardonicspartan9343]

Abaddon is a joke.