Is belief in the supernatural irrational? | John Lennox at Texas A&M

Oxford professor John Lennox discusses whether belief in the supernatural is irrational or warranted. | Texas A&M, 2016 | Explore more at www.veritas.org.
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[@MA-dx8id]

One day I was driving and contemplating Jesus and his resurrection. Unsure of it all, really questioning things. As I was deep in my own thoughts, my son sitting next to me in the car said “mom look at that cross in the sky!” I looked up to my left and in the sky no kidding was a perfect cross. I felt the Lord say he died for me… I was so taken back, I laughed I cried, I still cry over it. 😭❤️ He died for us, how crazy is it that the God that made us loves us like that. I still to this day don’t know if that cross in the sky was physically in the sky or supernaturally there, my son saw the cross as purple and I saw it as white. All I know is that happening that day changed everything. I’ve since accepted salvation as the gift it is and I know NO MATTER what life throws at me or anyone else in this life there is still always a promised hope in the next life with my Glorious savior Jesus, and for that I’m forever thankful. ❤️

[@ehecken]

Thank you for sharing that. 🙏

[@MA-dx8id]

@@psicologomiguelcisneros I do not hold my own truth, I am a fan of what is called objective truth, not subjective. Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life. All the evidence is there. Blessings.

[@metalroofing6708]

beautiful!

[@blindlemon9]

Lennox at his best. What a brilliant, captivating lecture.

[@axtonvance3634]

InstaBlaster.

[@MrAmmofreak]

Wow! If this captivates you...then reality is a story...

[@alexjoseph886]

Amen. It's "Atheism vs. Science" not "God vs. Science"

[@metalroofing6708]

"I'll bring 500 people who have been transformed by Christianity, you bring 500 people who have been transformed by atheism and then we'll talk" - That about sums it up doesn't it! I love this man! Thank you Lord for raising up Mr. John Lennox. What an inspiration!

[@ericday4505]

John Lennox is quite a treasure, he is truly an amazing thinker and a great debater, it was also interesting to hear the honesty of Thomas Nagel as well, atheistism is basically on its last legs.

[@lepidoptera9337]

He is also very good at selling books to the mentally weak. ;-)

[@publiusovidius7386]

lol. Except for the fact that Christianity continues to decline at an accelerating rate throughout the industrialized West. It's poised to become essentially a third-world belief system.

[@ericday4505]

@@publiusovidius7386 That is funny, hold your breath and wait !

[@publiusovidius7386]

@@ericday4505 😂😂😂so you haven't seen the stats. maybe Jesus will reveal them to you in a vision.

[@ericday4505]

@@publiusovidius7386 I got something for you to reveal in a vision.

[@keeverw12]

That is such a brilliantly simple way of looking at natrualism. From that viewpoint, a miniature schnauzer is a miracle. It would never happen naturally. It required intervention outside the natural process. So the resurrection of Christ, or the parting of the Red Sea or the creation of the universe are just larger scale examples of the same phenomenon. Dr. Lennox is such an excellent teacher. I am an electrician who went to community college. But I have no trouble understanding him. That is proof of how great a teacher he is.

[@TheMASDrummer]

I was laughing hysterically just at how brilliant Lennox is

[@NaturalFuture]

Why would the realization that someone's brilliant motivate a logically thinking person to engage in hysterical laughter?

[@sanctuarystone]

Great presentation! God bless you and your family, Prof. Lennox.

[@AnnaSzabo]

I’m loving this lecture and Q&A

[@MilanVVVVV]

That "why is the water boiling" part was hilarious, nice one

[@jjcm3135]

Formidable Christian.

[@LuciferAlmighty]

Not really, he's pretty bottom barrel.

[@gerardvetunawa1484]

To my primitive tribe of Papua New Guinea they conceptualized the Supreme Law giver and creator of our Universe just by their observation of nature.They called him Kobonara.He was regarded as Omnipotent,Omniscient and Almighty.

[@NaturalFuture]

This is what I've so far seen written by those styling themselves as "rational" about life, be it mundane or superior: ▪ life arises spontaneously by chance ▪ over time chance creates complexity ▪ the cosmos has existed for 13 bn yrs ▪ it comes from a far older multiverse ▪ advanced life can control its energy ▪ many things exist which we can't see With the above six statements, even the hardest core anti-theists (reminds you of antimatter) have laid the foundation for believing in the existence of Supernature. Yet, most, instead of seriously investigating, with models of theoretical physics and their instruments, of what Supernature might consist and where it might be, childishly knock it. Since a true belief in the above statements would lead a rational (since they're formulated by "rational" scientists) person to accept that it's far more likely than not that extremely advanced life--visible or not--exists, and that some might be benevolent while others are kin to chaos, it'd behoove a rational species to see which might benefit us. And which might want to enslave or annihilate us. As for the latter, wouldn't it be preferable to investigate, build weapons against, and prepare to fight back, if possible, before it suddenly appears on a skeptical human species that's caught off guard and unable to do anything? Skeptically refusing to prepare for such an encounter--especially if it were supernatural and dangerous--would be the most irrational thing human scientists and leaders ever did.

[@petiadavis5122]

Prof Lennox is a legend

[@LuciferAlmighty]

A legend in using lots of words to say nothing

[@omobosedefashedemi146]

Simply Brilliant!

[@alexjoseph886]

God will always exist, no matter what. Non-believers will have to realize that science proves God's existence. You can suppress the truth, and keep avoiding it, but in the end, God will always reign on high! #GodIsGood

[@mariodiblasio8058]

Alex Joseph: Amen brother! God bless you.

[@NaturalFuture]

Alex, the other day, I was outside a Starbucks. I saw an elderly man with the Bible approach a guy claiming to be an atheist. I overheard him tell the guy that at Romans 1:20-21 Paul said God has provided His creation as proof of His existence that nobody can deny; and that certain ones seek to suppress the truth about Him and His creation.

[@mariamunozpiz6070]

And every knee will bow amen

[@bluefishactcl1464]

Superb

[@davekpghpa]

It's a shame for those who clicked on this talk who didn't play it out to the end. Explaining the fruits of faith in Jesus is like trying to describe the color purple to a person who was born with complete blindness. John Lennox is one of those kind of speakers who comes close to conveying what Christian Faith is like. I loved the accounts John gave of those who were saved, especially the guy who shouted out at another one of his talks who said "look at me". I have a similar story where Jesus brought me out of a state of hopelessness and despair. I had nothing to lose by coming to faith. What I found is a new life of joy, purpose and direction and eternal life in the hereafter. So, if you don't believe in miracles and/or God, what would YOU have to lose by giving the idea of God as your creator AND savior a shot. You can always go back to where you started and maybe all you would have lost was a little bit of time away from your TV or smart phone. And if you want to give it a shot, try to put aside everything you think you know about our existence and then read and study the books of Genesis and the Gospel of John then see if all the pieces of the puzzle start falling into place.

[@bluefishactcl1464]

Thank you

[@colinlatimer9501]

Excellent - interesting view point - promotes understanding and thought for other views in our world today

[@roboutegiiliman-prime9074]

Extremely poor audio levels 😔 Please fix it 😕

[@Chi_Loutman]

Lennox & Peterson (upvoat for interest)

[@LuciferAlmighty]

2 that have nothing but word salad

[@Chi_Loutman]

@@LuciferAlmighty username checks out

[@LuciferAlmighty]

Yes

[@patriklindholm7576]

Yes.

[@JungleJargon]

Why is the water boiling? - LOL!

[@JungleJargon]

Information isn't material and yet information is materially written for you to see there is a Maker of everything there is.

[@sinebass808]

+Jungle Jargon "Information isn't material..." I'm a bit confused by this. could you give an example of information that is not material? If it is not material, how is it tangible in a material world? Thanks.

[@JungleJargon]

+sinebass808 Listen carefully to what John Lennox is saying. The chemicals are material but the ordering of the chemicals is from a material origin.

[@tonygoodkind7858]

Yes. It's belief without evidence, and that's what makes it irrational. I'm not even a naturalist -- I don't claim the natural world is all that exists -- I just also don't claim anything else exists because we currently only have evidence of the natural world, and that's it.

[@godstomper]

The super natural comes to you. You either accept it or keep running in fear from it.

[@lepidoptera9337]

If the supernatural comes to you, then your brain has already left the building. ;-)

[@godstomper]

@@lepidoptera9337 I wish

[@lepidoptera9337]

@@godstomper You wish for what? Ghost visitations? :-)

[@godstomper]

@@lepidoptera9337 I dont wish for anything. They just come to me

[@JungleJargon]

Musing that mindless things made you is mad.

[@NaturalFuture]

I heard an old man comment that, by the same token, it would be ridiculous to expect God to worship the works of His hands--us.

[@2633babe]

Believing you see the invisible is irrational. Lenox can see the invisible and is in Hallucination.

[@JungleJargon]

@@2633babe Can you see words that are spoken to you?

[@JungleJargon]

@@NaturalFuture No one greater than the God of gods.

[@MattyJohn146]

Amen

[@joannquaid6037]

I do not see how anyone who. nhears the last of his lecture could leave without belief in Hesus as Savior.

[@ninjaginger6418]

🙏👼

[@noobsaibot5285]

Belief in jesus, but not the historicity of the bible is irrational

[@HomicideHenry]

bonnie43uk you ask a reasonable question, therefore it deserves a reasonable answer. You ask where is the Justice for an atheist who was wronged by someone who becomes a Christian, or where is the Justice for persons (believers or not) who are wronged by someone who accepts Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior: for they are going to heaven because of their belief and repentance. The answer is that EVERYONE believer and unbeliever is judged in accordance to their deeds and words, in front of their peers: every secret thing, etc becomes known to all and EVERYONE is given the same treatment and asked "Why?" they did what they did, and they are ALSO shown the things that they are also guilty of NOT doing (helping a homeless person when you could have, for example) and you will see and so will your peers see the results of your doing and non doing in life. Also, God judges people not only by the intentions of their hearts but also the knowledge available to them. Let's say, for example, someone never once heard the word of Jesus in their entire life: are they going to hell? Of course not. God is more loving and merciful than that. They would be in heaven. Let's also say, for example, a child dies (the most horrible circumstance), is that child in hell? Of course not! Why? Because children are unblemished in the eyes of God: as Jesus said, "Out of the mouths of babes and sucklings comes perfected praise." Etc etc etc. Does Justice come for the atheist? Believe it. It does. There are penalties and losses of rewards, and shame among your peers: all are treated the same.

[@edwardarnautovic6948]

Ex-muslim here

[@gregjones2217]

Supernatural belief requires supernatural proof. Since none seems to exist, belief therein would seem senseless. Theists are quickly losing ground.

[@NaturalFuture]

I find it disturbing that Zacharias Trust does not allow people to comment on its videos on the debate over Jesus being God. Why don't they allow commenting? Afraid they're wrong? Let's test the belief that Jesus is God. Many believe thia because they want to believe it's true. But what if we let the Bible speak for itself? What did the angel Gabriel tell Mary before she gave birth to Jesus? That "what will be born will be called holy, the son of God." (Lu 1:35) What did the Pharisees say after Jesus had been hung up? "He has put his trust in God; let Him now rescue him if He wants him, for he said, 'I am the Son of God.'" (Mt.27:43) How did Peter answer when Jesus asked him: "'Who do men say I am?' Peter answered, 'Some say Elijah... But we have come to know that you are the Christ, the Son of God.'" (Mt.16:13-16) What did the Roman soldier observed about Jesus, upon seeing the darkness and earthquake immediately following his death? "Truly this was the Son of God." (Mt. 27:54) What did John mean when he wrote: "God loved the world so much that He gave His only begotten Son" (Joh 3:16) What did Jesus himself say when he asked the scribes and Pharisees: "do you say to me whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, 'You blaspheme,' because I said I am the Son of God?" (Joh 10:36) Finally, when Jesus was baptized, all around heard a voice from Heaven--his heavenly Father--and saw a dove settle on Jesus' head. The voice said, "This is my Son, the beloved, whom I have approved." (Mt. 3:16,17) With all this evidence, are you still going to believe what you want? Remember the warning in Revelation: "Do not add to the things that are written... Whoever does, the punishments herein will be added to him. Whoever takes away from this scroll, his portion will be taken from the trees of life." (Rev. 22:18,19) As James wrote, "God opposes the haughty ones, but He gives undeserved kindness to the humble ones." (Jas. 4:6) We are told to 'trust in God with all our hearts and not on your understanding.' (Prov. 3:5,6) Again James says: "Draw close to God and He [not a they] will draw close to you." (Jas 4:8)

[@jasonpalmer5437]

@Jeffrey, bring your argument to Sam Shamoun on Shamounian channel. Prepare for rigorous challenge 😉🙂

[@NaturalFuture]

Jason, what sort of person is Sam that he would even think of trying to refute solid logic like that? What is his motive? He a Bible hater? Or a logic hater? I don't mind a good challenge.😉 If it's about the so-called "Islamic Jesus," that has little to no bearing on arguments for or against the so-called "trinity."

[@Agimamif]

I agree that we have to base the beginning of an investigation an a leap of intuition. What i find so perplexing is the idea that any possible explanation could lead to the full and encompassing truth claims religions make. Further more to say u know a mind is behind the letters in the sand is difficult for me to believe. We have a subjective idea of what knowing is but we have no idea of how it works beyond what little honest and open inquiry have been done. If i ask if you know what time is, you will probably says yes. If i ask you to explain what time is you will probably wont know. The idea that an intuitive understanding of the supernatural traits of a bog and its content justifies telling and policing the behavior and thoughts of others, is absurd to me.

[@kennethgee2004]

except one cannot build truth on subjective. One must take certain things axiomatic, which means that you are taking something as self evidentially true.

[@williampratt3357]

Yes, belief in the supernatural is irrational, but a little irrationality is not fatal. If you go overboard with it, it can be very bad for everyone, so try not to become preoccupied with gods, devils, spirits or other phantoms.

[@ja.k3051]

Best thing I've heard all day.

[@lealeandre1063]

+William Pratt You just described love. Caring enough about people to let them believe what they want as long as they are not bringing harm to anyone is the most loving thing you can do. Peace!

[@mariodiblasio8058]

William Pratt: I agree totally... gods, devils, spirits and phantoms should not worry us too much; we have enough to worry with social instabilities around the world, shootings (almost a weekly occurrence now in the US and elsewhere), atomic weapons and a young fat boy somewhere in the Koreans.In addition, God (not gods, that do not exist), God, I say, said somewhere in Matthew 24 that days will come so horrible that if they were not shortened no flesh would survive... that's human flesh that He is talking about; thank God that He also said that those days will be shortened... not by human reason or human love or human ability, which are rapidly disappearing... but He Himself will shorten them. Now, that is good news! God bless you.

[@NaturalFuture]

You ever hear "It takes one to know one"? Perhaps the supernatural is only irrational to those unwilling to reason on it logically.

[@NaturalFuture]

And another thing: What if some of those that were anciently interpreted as "gods, devils, spirits or other phantoms" are in reality advanced entities which might belong to a group of predatory entities who'd love to do great harm to our planet, and who might succeed at that if these otherwise science- and technology-oriented atheists don't rise to the occasion and (1) see if such entities exist; (2) are a threat; and (3) design weapons to fight against them? If such a threat exists, sitting on your arses won't help.

[@junevandermark952]

When boasting that spiritual life for human "souls" is everlasting, humans disrespect all other forms of life. Without the word "soul," there couldn't be any stories of an afterlife for humans. All stories are based on what the soul is thinking, and what the soul is doing, and where the soul came from, and where the soul is going after death of the physical body. Fortunes have been made by theologians who taught that the soul is a gift from God, and that women must never have abortions, because abortions offend God's gift to humanity. Evolution of the soul is a huge seller in religion. It means that your soul is ever upgrading and will hopefully soon make the grade of God's "entire" approval of enlightenment and salvation … or … that in the afterlife something horrible could happen to your soul. If you remove the word "soul" from religion, you will not have anything but ground zero.

[@MadderMel]

Truth is , we have no proof either way , it's what you believe !

[@dangerboy808]

Evidence is different from proof, and there is evidence

[@danielelam5513]

Oh. I know this one. No.

[@bobtaylor170]

Afraid?

[@JungleJargon]

Belief that mindless things made you is mad.

[@mickymillersson4376]

Belief in the gospel of John, written decades after the so called miracles is what? Eyewitness account? No! Off Lennox goes again, as usual, quoting a document he has no proof about as if it were, well, gospel!!!'

[@JungleJargon]

+Michael Sleight You have no idea of the reality that the gospel is describing. Only your Maker can cover for you Himself and remake you again from the inside out by His true word.

[@JungleJargon]

+Michael Sleight It's by the power of His true word as no one else can. Only your Maker can make you to be born again.

[@alexjoseph886]

+Jungle Jargon What do you mean by "mindless things"?

[@mickymillersson4376]

+Jungle Jargon I have lots of ideas about what lies are in the gospels. You have never bothered to investigate who wrote them, why they wrote them, when they wrote them or you like me would see that they are bull shit. And Lennox knows it too, he knows what he quotes is not the truth and he knows why it could not possibly be the truth. Who was with Jesus in the wilderness or when he prayed alone in the garden, who was there to record what he said? It's all made up and I tell you again Lennox knows this he knows he is lying his conscience and his God know it too. He will face his God one day and he will repent his sin of pride.

[@robertmccully2792]

God is simular to a pen pal, you never meet him in person but his letters are in the bible. I guess super natural means never seeing in person, but if you met your pen pals relatives they could tell you all about them.

[@Elaphe472]

"And the King said unto her, What alleth thee? And she answered,, This woman said unto me, Give thy son, that we may eat him to day, and we will my son to morrow. So we boiled my son, and did eat him: and I said unto her on the next day, Give thy son, that we may eat him: and she hath hid her son..." (II Kings 6:28-29)

[@davekpghpa]

Perfect example of living without the moral absolutes given to us through by God (II Kings 6:27 And he said, If the Lord do not help thee, whence shall I help thee? ) Here's another example... "They built the high places of Baal that are in the valley of Ben-hinnom to cause their sons and their daughters to pass through the fire to Molech, which I had not commanded them nor had it entered My mind that they should do this abomination, to cause Judah to sin." And that kind of evil still exists to this day and will continue in this fallen world until the Day of the Lord, the time which Lennox alluded to when justice will be served . Interesting side note that a replica of the Arch of Baal toured the world a few years back and I doubt that those coming to see it have the slightest clue as to what it represents. Certainly some of those behind the tour do. I could never understand the chaos and evil in this world until I came to the realization that there are supernatural forces of evil that transcend even the evil of man. It's called spiritual warfare (Ephesians 6:10-20) for a reason and that term is not understated.

[@Elaphe472]

The stories of religions, not just biblical stories, are just amazing. Very interesting.@@davekpghpa

[@davekpghpa]

@@Elaphe472 I've only been deep in the Word of God in the Old and New Testaments for about 3 years now. It's amazing when going over passages and chapters I've read previously, how new things are revealed. One in particular for me was Genesis 3:3 where Eve says "But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die." The interesting thing is that God never forbade them of "touching" the fruit. And my interpretation of the fact that she said that was it was her way of embellishing on God's commandment as a kind of way of siding with the serpent, making God's commandment seem even more unreasonable and to justify eating of the fruit. Kinda like explaining a wrong someone has done to us and exaggerating the story to justify a sinful response such as hatred or retribution.

[@fourteatwo]

Atheism it to a worldview like non stamp collecting is to a hobby. To have a worldview requires to have a rational and logically coherent view of reality and that is not. If you explain faith do it logically coherent, it is trust in the absence of proof. It is the evidence on which you form a belief as it needs to be evident to your brain to initiate a cognitive process. Evidence is not proof and if you form a belief based on evidence that is actually proof you must be an idiot as you do not figure out that others gain knowledge from proof.

[@NaturalFuture]

I agree with only the first sentence. The remainder of your argument is merely a deconstructive comparison of the concepts of evidence and proof.

[@ForeverBleedinGreen]

Your statement saying faith is 'trust in the absence of proof,' is illogical. For example, scientists need to have faith that the laws of physics that were in force today will still be in force throughout the duration of the experiment. In fact, we practice faith every time we sit down in a chair. with faith, that it won't break and send us painfully to the floor. So in short, not only couldn't we do science without faith, we can't even go about our daily lives without it, so your statement is false, period.

[@dmurray6828]

I'm a Christian who thinks that the reasoning Lennox tends to use doesn't hold up...

[@bonnie43uk]

At about 1 hour 12 minutes, John Lennox says in regards to Christianity, "Justice will be done", well, one of the flaws ( as i see it) with Christianity is that if you've committed lots of crimes against other people in your life, if you sincerely repent to Christ, Christ will forgive you and you will be with him in heaven for eternity (so I'm told). Do the people whom you've wronged get Justice?, lets suppose you are a non believer in Christ because you find the evidence implausible, but you are a fairly good person, and the person I mentioned above, lets say he rapes your wife and daughter, and on his deathbed, he genuinely accepts Christ as his savior, .. he then goes to heaven, but you, a non believer in Christ, you've led a fairly good life, you've also had your wife and daughter raped, not only do you *not* get justice, you also get eternal damnation for not believing in Christ. Gods justice seems totally out of proportion to what I know as justice.

[@frankwhelan1715]

A bit late, but completely agree with you, just ONE of the MANY nonsensical injustices Christians ignore,or "reinterpret".

[@bakacs1n]

@@frankwhelan1715 A bit late, but this is the kind of question which creates different denominations. The Bible teaches us that man must not judge another human. There is an encounter when the Devil wants to get hold of Moses's corpse and the Angel talking to him didn't condemn him (which was very weird to me at first), then the Angel says that God should deal with you. So you see not even Angels are capable of doing fair judgement and not even on the being which we would claim obviously the father of all evil. Our deepest desire to see every human being saved. Different persons are triggered by different things, some by music, some by logic, some by science, some by fear, some by disasters, some by pain, some by joy, some by relationships, some by loneliness ... so don't blame them for trying, it's not about them anyway. So when a person dies, in fact nobody on earth knows where he will be after the judgement, because only God knows what's inside - that is what the Bible says. There were many times when Jesus encountered greater faith in a person who never knew anything about the law or messiah, then in the proper schooled Jews who saw everything with their own eyes. So the answer to the first question is this: Jesus is the only just judge. But don't get me wrong, I don't know what will be the fate of a person who encounters Jesus in life but deliberately refuses his gift of salvation. The book of revelations is yet to unfold. May you find peace.

[@brentstewart2150]

Of COURSE it seems non sensical to you. The words of Jesus sounded non sensical to those Pharisees in His day too! He said in Matt 19 you do err not knowing the scriptures. If a man truly repents then yes, he’s truly saved. That goes for all men and women. Thing is, you may take your sins lightly but God doesn’t. Are they less than rape or murder? Probably yes. What about the wrongs you did? Would a person be led by God to rape and murder someone? If that were the case then Christ had no need to come and save anyone. It occurs by believers so-called because we can still choose to do whatever we want. The consequences are way worse but we can still do it. The thing God is looking for is faith which works by love….acts done out of love for Him that steadily kills the sinful nature we all worked from at some point. It’s a difficult process but it’s the process of growing up in Christ. Now, if you were saved the expectation would be that you did what you would expect God to do…forgive them for they know not what they do. Can’t do that? It’s too hard? Still wonder why there’s so much evil and destruction in the world? It’s what is most prominent in almost all human hearts. You’re not absolved from the responsibility of what’s in your heart and what you act on. You can come to Christ and take on Christ likeness or you can keep doing things your way. Humans will choose death over life in most cases. Just keep doing more of what doesn’t work. It’s insanity and yet humans feel justified in doing it. You are not exempt from this insanity and most Christians have had to fight with it as well. How do you suffer evil from someone and not retaliate? It’s the ONLY way you end up with salvation. If God was ONLY a God of judgement then we wouldn’t be having a conversation. If you want to spend eternity with Him the be more like Him. If you don’t then keep being vengeful. Keep coming up with cases of injustice and being mad at God for not automatically wiping them out. Do not hold space for ANYONE who wrongs you and continue to engage with the evil you experienced by handing out more evil and calling yourself justified. Then keep blaming God for all the evil. It’s a really stupid thought process we humans engage in and it’s why there’s so much death and destruction in this world.

[@Fragoul27]

yes

[@fourteatwo]

At 39:50 he touches a point that is yet beyond his comprehension. To explain Josephs behaviour in accepting the pregnancy of his wife as an act of magic is a disgrace for a Christian as in makes Joseph and Mary naive to believe in magic, not a miracle. The miracle they actually experienced was the word of god to become flesh, e.g. to love thy neighbour like thyself. and thus break the law of selfishness to kill the pregnant woman and the baby she carried being raped by a roman soldier. Instead of having to kill herself or being killed by her own folks as it would have had to happen for carrying the child from the enemy - a death sentence still today in war torn places - they raised the child together. If you consider such explanation to give rise to Jesus that would be less worthy of being Gods beloved son tell me why. If in this act the word of God turned an act of selfishness, hate and oppression into a beacon of hope love and selflessness tell me why you would argue an act of magic to impregnate Mary would make your God more valuable than one who can change reality by love.

[@frederickanderson1860]

Mad scientists and religious nuts ecclesiastical verse says it chapter 7 v 16 from book of wisdom.

[@bendigeidfranemmanueljones4546]

Is belief in the irrational, irrational? I don't know?!

[@NaturalFuture]

Is the supernatural irrational? Or is the thinking of those who deny its existence irrational?

[@NaturalFuture]

Nobody can say "I don't know" without looking like an ostrich.

[@mickymillersson4376]

Lennox the weaver of words. He pretends he does not understand language when at the same time he pretends he does. I believe that one and one are two. I believe it to be a fact to be a truth. I do not believe in an all powerful God or the supernatural. I don't believe it to be true or to be a fact. Lennox stop trying to make you understanding (no correction, you pretence of understanding) of the word believe the same as Dawkins understanding of the word belief. They mean two different things. Yours is a faith based belief. Dawkins is a fact based belief. You must stop this lie. Your God will know the truth in your heart. Do not attempt to fool him, it, her, them.

[@JungleJargon]

Keep listening. You will learn that Christianity is an evidence based belief. Evolution and naturalism are baseless beliefs that are absent of any evidence.

[@bonnie43uk]

+Jungle Jargon Hi Jungle, here is a question for you, why doesn't God heal amputees?. I'm quite interested in things like the supernatural and miracle occurrences.

[@TheClaudius07]

+bonnie43uk your question is deceptive and a literal regurgitation of what your master , Dawkins says. Here is a question, what proof do you have that God has not now or in the past healed amputees ?

[@bonnie43uk]

TheClaudius07 Hi Claudius, I'm not Dawkins biggest fan and he certainly isn't my 'master'. In regards to your question, I take it very seriously, there is absolutely no credible proof whatsoever that God has ever healed an amputee in the past or more particularly now. If you know of such a healing I'll be more than happy to look at any evidence. Your question is a bit like me saying to you 'I have an invisible magic dragon in my garage,... can you disprove it?'

[@JungleJargon]

+bonnie43uk God can do anything. The issue is why He does what He does or not. Why do people keep sinning? Isn't that a much more significant question? Why are we shown grace? Why are we not killed?

[@bonnie43uk]

At about 1:03:05 The Moderator asks a question from an audience member :Q If there is a superior being in control, why do tragic things happen? I turned up the sound and pulled myself closer to the screen, a great question, and I wondered how Professor Lennox would answer it. He then spent the next 10 minutes completely sidestepping this tricky question. This has long been a thorn in the side of Christianity as I see it, if God is all loving, how can he allow starvation and misery on a massive scale to exist? The logical conclusion for me is that God probably doesn't exist and it's just an unfortunate fact of life, certainly regarding natural disasters, and similarly, there are people out there who, for many reasons, do bad things, but in the main, people are social creatures who seek to live a happy harmonious life. There will always be a few bad apples in the barrel. As Esther Rantzen would say, ... "That's Life"!

[@alexjoseph886]

+bonnie43uk Unfortunately for you, God does exist, and always will. :)

[@bonnie43uk]

Alex Joseph So for my honesty and integrity for doubting Gods existence I sentence myself to eternal damnation. Is that how Christianity works Alex?

[@alexjoseph886]

bonnie43uk No, ignoring the evidence and proof that proves God's existence, makes you a hypocrite. I use to be an atheist like you, then I realized that there is so much more evidence for God than against God. Atheism is blind faith. And you're not being honest, everyone knows we were created by a creator, ignoring that fact, is obviously ignorant. And God is love, but I don't like when atheists criticize God, without giving evidence for atheism. Read the bible, stop being close minded, bonnie. I'm an open minded Christian who loves science.

[@bonnie43uk]

Alex Joseph Hmm, 'ignoring the evidence and proof' ?? what evidence and proof. Think about it Alex, if God exists, and you seem certain of it, he will know me better than I know myself, why would I want to damn myself to eternal hell? Lets look at the properties of God, he doesn't respond to any of the 5 human senses, he's invisible, there is no credible evidence of any miracles ( something which defies the known laws of physics), if you know better, I'd be happy to hear what credible evidence you have. You say I need to give evidence of atheism, atheism is purely a lack of belief in God, .. look up any dictionary definition. I do not say 'God *does not* exist' with certainty, I lack belief in him/her/it/whatever God is. If I find credible evidence I will happily change my mind and become a believer, but so far I've not been convinced of the evidence presented to me. It was actually reading the bible that really led me to doubt Gods existence. I read the bible now as an atheist much more than I ever did being raised as a Christian. Do you believe the bible to be inerrant? Alex, maybe you can answer the question that John Lennox dodged, Q:Why does an all loving God allow so many tragic events to happen?

[@alexjoseph886]

bonnie43uk It's pretty sad that you are criticizing Dr. Lennox, I would love to see you debate him. So don't play stupid. Lol and Ill tell you why he answered the question, but you ignored his answer. God allows the tragic events and suffering to help our faith get stronger, like the phrase, no pain, no gain. I'm sorry that you're ignorant enough to ignorant to abundance of evidence we have. I'm about to graduate from college with a PhD, going to pursue a career in science. And I highly doubt you have read the bible entirely, most atheists will proclaim to read the bible, but in reality, they've never read one verse. Since you're so confident as an atheist, answer this question without dodging it, or running away from it, what evidence do you have that makes atheism (faitheism) to be accurate and true? Ps; I'm a former atheist myself, but I realized that I don't have enough blind faith to be an atheist. ;) I hope you do open your eyes, and stop letting the devil get to you.

[@TheSmithDorian]

What would be a genuine miracle is Lennox making an appearance without mentioning Richard Dawkins - he's obsessed with him. He just can't leave it alone. Why the hell can't Lennox make arguments based on their own merits instead of constantly banging on about what he thinks scientists believe, whether scientists have faith in science and whether scientists are all atheists?

[@NaturalFuture]

And neither can Dawkins leave God alone.

[@NaturalFuture]

Neither can Dawkins leave God alone.

[@bobtaylor170]

@@NaturalFuture, yes, it's amusing that he just cannot bring himself to leave a non - thing alone.

[@brentstewart2150]

The Veritas forum was at a Texas A&M University. Those experiences Dr Lennox has had at Oxford etc are exceedingly relevant. Also, how do you discuss a topic without discussing those who are considered by many the top thinkers in those arenas? It wouldn’t be smart to pretend as if Dr Lennox was the only person shaping opinion in those arenas. Also, great context could be given to his points by pointing out the counter arguments.

[@TheSmithDorian]

@@brentstewart2150 " Also, how do you discuss a topic without discussing those who are considered by many the top thinkers in those arenas?" You make your own arguments and discuss the merits of the opposing arguments. You don't need to continually keep mentioning the people who hold those opposing beliefs.

[@CoCLastname]

"Is belief in the supernatural irrational?" The answer is clearly "yes", because it is by definition irrational to believe anything without sufficient evidence. And there is insufficient evidence for any intellectually honest, educated person to conclude that a god exists.

[@bernielowe6520]

Educated people can be really stupid on many occasions and I therefore don’t put any store in what they think, do or say.

[@jonathansanta5662]

Sometimes educated intellectuals are the least honest individuals. Also if Gods existence were so easy to prove, would his presence even be worth a dam? Can we not agree on the fact that the phenomena of the natural universe is nothing short of divine intelligence? Is everything just coincidence? When a divine creator is taken out of the picture, humans lose both reason and logic. Without which, there is no hope. What people seem to have a problem with is not the idea of God, but the fact that he prescribed a set of commandments. Peoples egos are cunning, and they want to avoid being "caught". Religion created accountability. And men corrupted religion. The belief in the supernatural is essentially good. What causes you and I's heart to involuntarily beat? What causes the plant to grow? There is fundamental energy at play that science has yet to quantify and explain. Does this mean we should give up on science, no way. But this only further proves the fact that the "supernatural" exist, and I for one think it would be rather arrogant of us to dismiss the idea of God simply because we have yet to "prove" his existence in a "scientific" way.

[@NaturalFuture]

It's also irrational to keep ignoring the evidence you clearly have and act like you don't have any. I overheard an elderly man with a Bible read to a man saying the very same thing as you: "That is why God lets a deluding influence mislead them so that they may come to believe the lie." (2 Thess. 2:11) Maybe "God" is smarter than you think.

[@NaturalFuture]

Please explain to the audience, then, CoC1970, why the solution to the square root of -1 is called "irrational." Is it, as you define irrationality, because we have insufficient evidence it is so? You better double check the definition of "irrational." It might not be entirely accurate.

[@SamIAm-kz4hg]

Believing that John Lennox is rational, is irrational. Simply decreeing that there has always been a god not only doesn't follow your own logic, but has no evidence to back it up. And where did all of the matter that makes up the universe come from? From god's pocket? A shelf in the back? What a pile.

[@bobtaylor170]

Sad man. May God show Himself to you more than He already has, for you cannot successfully deny His existence to yourself: you know you're lying to yourself.

[@SamIAm-kz4hg]

@@bobtaylor170 "you know you're lying to yourself" This is like me saying to you "You know you're a pedophile. Stop lying to yourself." What do you think this kind of stupidity accomplishes? You come off like an idiot when you try to tell other people what they think. If you have evidence for your god, show it. Using your approach (no reasoning or evidence) we can all make claims, which I now do. I AM GOD! AND YOU KNOW I AM! See? Anyone can play this stupid game.

[@SamIAm-kz4hg]

@@bobtaylor170 I suspect that you have no idea how dumb you sound. Here, try this: Sad man. May Spiderman show Himself to you more than He already has, for you cannot successfully deny Spiderman's existence to yourself: you know you're lying to yourself.

[@uroskostic224]

From what i gathered, he points out towards the reality being leveraged towards humanity which created layers of layers within reality itself in a relatively short time by faculties which are extremely adaptable yet also self-governing and unique in all forms of life. If you listened to his other lectures, he is truly unsure if God exists or not yet strongly clings to ultimate reality being more than what meets the eye (hopefully outside of Christianity) and finding Christianity as one interpretation which suited his view (an anthropomorphic Deus does not seem to be the case, if it were true, in my opinion yet, if you pay attention to his drives, he wants to bring hope beyond the limitations of physical reality that has had no hope for trillions. Even if there is no god, I don’t think a man can ever accept that he is only just a conjunction of matter due to the complexity of the human mind and our endless potential as a species (i don’t think the game would make sense that way but that’s just me).

[@SamIAm-kz4hg]

@@uroskostic224 This is the worst word salad I have ever encountered. It actually sounds like a computer translated it from some unfamiliar language. What does "he points out towards the reality being leveraged towards humanity" mean? What about "he wants to bring hope beyond the limitations of physical reality that has had no hope for trillions"? Trillions of what? And then there's "he is only just a conjunction of matter due to the complexity of the human mind and our endless potential as a species".

[@MrAmmofreak]

Gobblygook by an academician of Oxford! Well...I do not need to be educated at Oxford!!

[@MrAmmofreak]

Oxford...the position that John enjoys...well...Oxford is definitely not the place of learning...

[@MrAmmofreak]

Yes John! Suspend reality in favour of your choice god!! Give it a break dude!!!