Miracles: Is Belief in the Supernatural Irrational? | John Lennox at Harvard Medical School

John Lennox of Oxford University explores the legitimacy of miracles and their supernatural implications. | Harvard Medical School, 2012 | Explore more at www.veritas.org.
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[@lisashao2449]

He is a gifted teacher. Thank you LORD Jesus for wise people who know you personally.

[@cypresse1620]

I just want to add: that was a tremendously powerful argument in the end, he completely elevated Christianity as the one true religion without insulting others. Extremely well done Dr Lennox.

[@1Skeptik1]

Is there a gentle way to suggest you were sold a bill of goods and suffer from a grand delusion? IF your fraction of Christianity is right that means billions past and present are wrong and played for-profit and favor? Yes?

[@cypresse1620]

@@1Skeptik1 why pretend to be gentle? Lol

[@zzm9134]

'he completely elevated Christianity as the one true religion without insulting others'..... I think those of other faiths would consider that an insult. If a Muslim did it, why would they be wrong?

[@cypresse1620]

@@zzm9134 let me clarify: the method he used to explain his position is not confrontational. The content itself would be disputed by people holding a different faith. In other words you may say: “i am not mad at how you said it, it’s what you said”.

[@zzm9134]

@@cypresse1620 You could try and answer my question...

[@ironlion805]

“God is extremely interested in people who don’t care.” Not only a great mind, but a great pastor.

[@zzm9134]

God does not exist. But it's interesting to say that God has more interest in people who don't care...perhaps by not caring i can communicate better with God if he has more reason to pick up the phone?

[@Sojourner777]

@@zzm9134 God exists, stop fooling yourself.

[@zzm9134]

@@Sojourner777 Prove it

[@Sojourner777]

@@zzm9134 the fact that you are alive rn is proof enough, and the evidence for Jesus life, death and resurrection is enough evidence itself.

[@zzm9134]

@@Sojourner777 The fact i am alive doesn't prove God exists. It certainly doesn't prove that your particular conception of what 'God' is is True. God could just be another way of saying luck, space pixies or aliens or anything else.The only evidence you have for the other things is that someone wrote it in a book. Lot's of other things have been written in other books..like the Quran. Is that enough evidence to prove the Quran is the Truth?

[@joewright9879]

John Lennox, you are an amazing guy. The story of your train trip to Köln and the Russian Bible brought tears to my eyes. As you say, He is not just a God of the gaps. He is the God of the whole show.

[@fredlui3900]

Thank You Professor John Lennox for Bearing The Light Of Jesus Christ. Remember You in my Prayers

[@MrKilopapa]

Tyson Sprinter I'm pretty sure that it was Charlie Manson.

[@ereynatetasgrafas9933]

God bless you John Lennox!

[@nething94]

+EreynateTasGrafas God lives inside of him.

[@ereynatetasgrafas9933]

+ikano BG of course, he's a born again Christian!

[@michaelbrickley2443]

Amen....and alleluia....If all the atheists were aware how many of the scientists in the world believe in a personal God they might rethink their smug a priopri assumptions

[@bethoumyvision6946]

Yet another fantastic presentation by Lennox. The sensitive carefulness by which he bases his approach to those who are struggling with the questions of life, is just as Christ would do. God bless him.

[@bethoumyvision6946]

If the hat fits.., put it on...if it don't ....walk away. I am really sure you've got a fab hold on everything around you....good for you.

[@bethoumyvision6946]

***** No delusion there, I must say. You don't know where you came from....What you are here for and what the finish will be. You can't walk away then so be it. I would agree that "religion" has had many negative affects on society......as has communism, atheism, have it your own wayism. Do you fit into any of these perchance? Religion doesn't claim to teach morality..... it reveals our immorality. But then, that depends on whether you believe there is a moral lawgiver. You don't, so where do your morals come from? Do you make them up? Do they shift with the passing of time? Today homosexuality is accepted but pedophilia isn't. Whose going to say its wrong down the track .....majority? Why is itwrong? How about porn? Abortion? You have no foundations... Happy little snowman?

[@dionsanchez6097]

***** Live and let live.

[@bethoumyvision6946]

Dion Sanchez Try telling that to a womans libber whos bent on pro-abortion rights.

[@dionsanchez6097]

I have. Some unbelievers are hypocrites. They ask for "tolerance" and are intolerant toward people of faith.

[@evAngeliis]

It seems that nothing ever ruffles John Lennox's feathers. He always comes back with a well-thought out answer rather than just reacting to the ridiculously irrational viewpoints of those he is speaking with.

[@evAngeliis]

How is having a demeanor that allows for some thoughts to be put together first before verbalising them being deluded or presumptuous? I don't understand how this is so. That is a huge leap you are making there. It in no way implies that. I don't know how that assertion was rational at all. And you also accuse your opponent of just being ignorant like a child. That is quite an arbitrary assertion to make. It is very easy to see how the a-theist worldview lacks a basis to validate itself, and hence becomes irrational. Within it's own worldview, there is no consistency to be rational. If you say so, then the question needs to be asked how are you or anyone else correct over those who choose not to make rational statements? Logically inconsistent validation. You kind of proved the point for the atheistic side of the debate though, nice one.

[@jonesgerard]

Lennox knows atheists are very disturbed people, only a higher power can talk to them, he lets God form his thoughts and it shows. I was an atheist for 40 yrs, it takes a mind to the gates of hell, aka; insanity.

[@cygnusustus]

He comes back with a well thought out answer.....or a convenient lie.

[@josephthistle7026]

He is pure believe

[@josephthistle7026]

@Blacx Adam meaning what??

[@luvtheLordJesus]

WOW!!! This is my first time watching him and I am officially a fan :) Intelligence used to the glory of God!

[@zzm9134]

Not really

[@johnjaso385]

@@zzm9134 come on troll. Elaborate please.

[@zzm9134]

@@johnjaso385 I already did

[@marvinhesler6002]

Yes I am amazed at his knowledge... to me he is the modern day CS Lewis

[@tejasgreen1717]

Gods don’t exist. Don’t know why people have to rely ona magical crutch

[@ALo-rl3le]

May God continue to use you as you bless others.

[@JoshuaHults]

WOW i needed this, i know theres a God but i was burnt out all this week, i cant believe how awesome he answered all his questions, but the last 1, just wow wow wow and some more wow

[@britboy64gmail]

First time hearing him. WOW. Incredible insight and coherence.

[@seanleith5312]

The Left believe they are the only one who is right, they believe they are the only one who should exist. The left is extremist in nature. Just look at every socialist dictators in the history. By the way, Hitler was a socialist, he was on the left not the right.

[@johnjaso385]

@@seanleith5312 what are you talking about?

[@reversereality1977]

I love when John Lennox speaks

[@oliverjamito9902]

Reason, judge not yet ye be judge. But I do judge the tree by it's fruits. Hehehe! Agree!

[@Roy-ol3qx]

@@oliverjamito9902 Huh?

[@theohuioiesin6519]

I am filler with love and hope and joy listening to Lennox. The effect he has on a room is absolutely divine. I so wish I could read and spend time with him and his fellow genius friends and be sharpened by them.

[@torinoherrera]

"But in your hearts revere Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect," 1 Peter 3:15

[@rachelflair4835]

A huge Amen!

[@egnubjr]

I’m in awe of Dr. John Lennox! He’s brilliant but humble, brilliant but so kind. I’m sure he knows Jesus Christ and Jesus Christ knows him. Joan Bunge Florida USA in Christ all things can be done. I’m a new born again Christian 🙏🏽💕🙏🏽💕

[@annchovey2089]

John Lennox - one of my favorite heros!

[@martinajones5649]

Yes. I find that apologists are the best teachers in the deep things of. God. I have learned more and got great light in the last year then i did since i was saved and thats almost 40 years

[@Roy-ol3qx]

I was a Militant Atheist before and this guy, along with Hugh Ross and Gary Habermas, were the people who helped me think and changed my views. Took me 4 years to make that decision. Of course, my fellow Atheist friends were so disappointed and microaggresively insult me from time to time (which I understand, because I was one of them before). Yet I don't feel any hatred towards them but love and currently reaching out to them. It amazes me how God can change a person's heart and mind like mine.

[@pauljomento8357]

@@Roy-ol3qx I was also on the same path as you were but thank God that through people like John Lennox, William Lane Craig, Ravi Zacharias, J Warner Wallace, etc, He also allowed me to see the truth of the Gospel and belief in the God of Israel. I praise God for your life, keep pushing and enduring to the end :) God bless you.

[@NekoFilm]

He's as kind as he's intelligent. Such a humble man.

[@carolmason8085]

He represents the Lord well

[@vhawk1951kl]

he pork chop, humble?- You*must* be joking, he is an arrogant tenditious piece of fartty meat, and *No* kind of christian for want of the necessary ingredints

[@YohanesWimpy]

Thank you Veritas and especially thank you Mr. Lennox. I really appreciate this.

[@user-us4qp4xr2q]

Thank god also. And a little bit cause i use to like his speech😅

[@CarlJosephEscarian]

I'm agnostic, still learning and discovering , but I praise Sir John Lennox .truly witty and an intellectual and humble of course. Which i cannot surpass.

[@conniebrazzle3713]

I'm a big fan of Dr. John Lennox . A man endowed with intelligence from the Creator. I love his wit and humbleness.

[@ThePapsforshort]

Prof. John Lennox, my hero ❤ ..

[@ruskyivanich2107]

The man has a sense of humor

[@droinfante2682]

I wish he was my grandpa

[@josephthistle7026]

Me 2

[@thebatman4484]

Me 3

[@christiancorner4915]

I adopted him as my pa, a long ways back.He has a great mind.

[@an_nie_dyc1386]

He reminds me of mine. I love him.

[@MacCadalso]

Me 4

[@hayunifit]

I always look forward to watching Dr. Lennox's presentation and especially as he interacts with Atheists.

[@Touchthesky412]

Now you're a missionary! I love it!

[@TheMindaeva]

17:40 22:42 the unreasonable effectiveness of mathematics 28:00 37:13 miracles and science

[@debbie94510]

Wonderful intellect and captivating person. I really enjoyed this. Thank you for uploading.

[@DWHalse]

My first 6 months after Salvation saw miracles pretty much daily. Big ones too. Then some well meaning Brother told me there are no miracles happening anymore. I guess his mature statement got to me as they stopped! Oh, where is that zeal of youth and simple belief the Word? I’m praying for it to come back!!!!!

[@ChiTownOnDeck]

God is amazing. God is the beginning and the end. Nothing was made without him. God is the only being who can be disbelieved but yet be so evident in the world. God is after our hearts. He isnt concerned with how much you think you know.

[@Gnomefro]

That's amazing. Your God has all the same properties as my transcendental rubber duck!

[@willzer808]

So evident? What the fuck? For fuck sake.

[@ChiTownOnDeck]

willzer808 I have seen your comments on a lot of threads buddy Lol. Keep searching for the truth bud. I just wanted to let you know I love you. I mean that too!😊 I love you too! Gnomefro

[@harlemhargeo7385]

Gnomefro Of course, it is funny eh? Won't all of us die some day? Hope you meet your transcendental rubber duck on the other side, so that you may have nothing to be afraid of. But if you meet the God whom you say has the same properties as your transcendental duck, then you have every reason to fear...! Life on earth is just a mist.

[@o-i-c-udisolve8352]

+ChiTownOnDeck Agree, except for "God is the beginning and the end. Nothing was made without him or her or both as one.

[@meggold3422]

This might be my favorite talk by John Lennox. He was on point with everything, was highly engaging, thought-provoking, delightful, and had a fantastic audience.

[@ghallora]

Great to hear this. Glory be to God. Peace in Christ Brother!

[@gh0stn0tez]

Amazing. Praise the Lord!

[@charlsmit3490]

"The existence of a mechanism that does something is not in itself an argument for the non-existence of an agent who designed it" (22:00) Couldn't have been said better! Why certain people can't comprehend this, I would not know.

[@computingwithandychola4440]

Wonderful presentation.

[@rachelflair4835]

I got to have lunch with John when he was in Charlotte NC years ago. What an intelligent and humble man!

[@schmetterling4477]

How many books of his did you buy?

[@rachelflair4835]

@@schmetterling4477 I have all his books, most are signed too!

[@EnEvighet7]

Great talk. I must add that Prof. Lennox's way of answering the Q&A was perhaps the best improvised speech I've seen. It takes a lot skill and experience to tie diverse questions in such a logical structure with pedagogic reasoning. Furthermore, he managed to tie in reasoning he did not have time include in the lecture, further elaborating on his key arguments and hammering home the conclusions. Thanks once again Prof. Lennox!

[@BrowderFan]

Wow. What a talk; what a man! Brilliant!

[@JamesRichardWiley]

John Lennox knows knows exactly what everyone else knows who have read the same material that he has read.

[@VirtualTripper]

The more i watch John the more i realise how amazing we all are as people in this experiance regardless of what faith we have

[@honawikeepa5813]

Thank you Lord, for such great men and women of God. Cheers from Aotearoa NZ.

[@TheDocinGA]

A tremendous presentation and such a fabulous personality. I wish I had a grandfather like him!

[@jimkidd6334]

I completely agree he explains things that make you anxious to hear more

[@kedeshawilson9323]

Beautiful!! I loved it

[@TheBackyardProfessor]

Superbly instructional!

[@irone93]

"the only incomprehensible thing about the universe is that it is comprehensible"

[@randbentson6301]

Classic John Lennox! One of the people on a short list of ones that I would love to spend time with discussing these things. His logic is rock solid as one would expect from a pure mathematician. Its very difficult to argue with his conclusions, because he doesn't come from a judgmental, Biblical theist, but rather a rational scientist who has a genuine interest in knowing what is true. One thing that is not really appreciated by the unbeliever is that the God of the Bible can be experienced. This is what causes changes in the lives of them that become believers. To loose sight of that is to loose sight of what makes us thinking and emotional beings...human. Understand that there are brilliant minds on the creationist, theist side of science as well.

[@cygnusustus]

His "rock solid logic" was exactly the sort of God Of The Gaps argument that he falsely claimed not to follow. Debunking his conclusions is itself a simple matter of the application of logic.

[@hitlard5305]

Cygnus Ustus God of the gaps? The Christian god isn’t a god of the gaps.

[@oliverjamito9902]

My brother I agree indeed. Ought to let you know. Don't mind my grammar. Not to good with grammar. Be encouraged, you have many, many, many, true spiritual brothers. Likewise, Jesus sacrifice himself for you and me. Likewise, I'll give my life for you kind of love. And my brother behind you will do the same. Reason, that's how me and you can BECOME ONE. LUV YA BROTHER!

[@alexnorth3393]

@@oliverjamito9902 Lol.

[@megward8020]

@@cygnusustus Please do share your logic for debunking his conclusions.

[@glenholmgren1218]

LEGEND! 🎯👍🙏😇

[@nowellg]

Sound logic, open mind, respectful narrative. Thanks Mr. Lennox

[@cylanpowell-3262]

What a amazing man nobody explains it better God bless sir

[@ZaZiggyzag]

"I was under the impression you believed it" lol, brilliant

[@jaypee8768]

Somebody make a meme of this!!!

[@Underground457]

Time stamp?

[@jaypee8768]

10:17

[@ruthmeir6851]

He studied at the Royal School Armagh, Northern Ireland and was Exhibitioner and Senior Scholar at Emmanuel College, Cambridge University from which he took his MA and PhD. He worked for many years in the Mathematics Institute at the University of Wales in Cardiff which awarded him a DSc for his research. He also holds a DPhil from Oxford University and an MA in Bioethics from the University of Surrey.

[@Maranatha-rk7lh]

And he can speak German (very well, I can attest), French, Spanish and Russian, as far as I know.

[@user-us4qp4xr2q]

I taught him.

[@nattgarl]

I love listening to John Lennox.

[@hwd7171]

30:50. I love this story.

[@godblessedrob]

Amen! Well said Dr. Lennox.

[@GSpotter63]

Information is supernatural: It has never been observed to arises by purely natural means. (AKA it must come from a mind)

[@beemer2869]

A wonderful man of God. Wise, humble with a sense of humour. Everything he says makes sense of our amazing God. .❤

[@edwardclark8273]

The cookbook analogy @ 1:22:00. Wow. God bless you.

[@MPaulHolmesMPH]

What a fun and informative talk.

[@1AmbitionMusic]

Praise God! I've had a number of very similar experiences in my life. One in particular that involved my brother being healed of a degenerative bone disease instantaneously. I only say this to make one point. Every time I have told this story in detail, it has been at the request to present evidence of a miracle from God. The response I've gotten more often than not is genuine disbelief. This tells me that the problem has more to do with an unwillingness to believe than a lack of evidence.

[@Bestyared]

Thank you Sir.. Now I am Christian...

[@MrKerpelWatson]

This should have millions of plays. Cant help but believe in God after watching this.

[@jordan6030]

Excellent Presentation!

[@MCulpa]

Loved that discussion on semiotics.

[@astleystarship]

I am a Christian myself, which is why his comments were so troubling to me. Thanks for your nice response!

[@josephmatthews604]

Dr. Lennox is a marvelous example to us all in the Christian he both professes and lives!

[@derek9153]

An adorable man that’s probably smarter and kinder than you. We love you, Professor Lennox.

[@zico739]

This is truly fascinating. Lennox is brilliant, a truly brilliant mind.

[@donmac8181]

Dr. Lennox is clearly expressing a message that many Pastors within a vast number of churches need to hear, and then relate to their congregations today due to the gospels that are just not true Dr. Lennox' version is on point and factual!

[@jaypee8768]

Every theist need to listen to this like the bible and quote from it

[@franzitaduz]

I love that God continues to answer prayers surely said by Mr. Harvard over this institution that the Lord be revealed to students there. We know many are among the highest test scorers in our country, it is right that a man like John Lennox can engage their brains and possibly reach their hearts. No better sermon could be preached.

[@debjesic]

Love this guy! No puff, no tail-chasing analogy, just simple truths.

[@4hq]

God bless you, Dr. Lennox...

[@ruthmeir6851]

John Lennox is Professor of Mathematics in the University of Oxford, Fellow in Mathematics and the Philosophy of Science, and Pastoral Advisor at Green Templeton College, Oxford. He is also an adjunct Lecturer at Wycliffe Hall, Oxford University and at the Oxford Centre for Christian Apologetics and is a Senior Fellow of the Trinity Forum. In addition, he teaches for the Oxford Strategic Leadership Programme at the Executive Education Centre, Said Business School, Oxford University.

[@walterkersting9922]

The truth is alive.

[@Obletix]

Thanks for the upload. Great speach.

[@susan1812]

You are so convinced ,you truly love God and you are gifted with that ability to convince everybody to join you. I love you brother.

[@MrKerpelWatson]

After watching this whole thing I cannot help but to believe in God.

[@yolandavelez9991]

I really like how he loves and believes in Jesus no matter what he’s speaking about the love and knowledge is there .. amazing

[@ReyhijodelLeon]

He spoke the truth and ofcourse people who are still in bondage to lies and dont accept it only wish to debate.

[@djcfield93]

+rationalmind Haha 'rationalmind'. How come that when a person calls himself rational/logical, they are almost always the first person in the room to proclaim something completely irrational

[@djcfield93]

What is the difference?

[@djcfield93]

Consensual reality: that which is believed to be reality based on a consensus view. That's not true at all. That's like saying, rationality is believing what everyone believes because everyone believes it (ie jumping on the bandwagon). Surely rational thinking is the art of coming to a true conclusion

[@djcfield93]

***** I know. I'm just having some fun with you. There are plenty of books to read on the subject. The KZbin comment section is not the most reliable source of information

[@LorrieConrad-rr7pn]

Thank you John Lennox and I hope America treated u well.

[@susan1812]

John Lennox,truly you are God sent to humanity .

[@CosmoKadampa]

Amazing!

[@djura3]

In 27:28 Lennox is talking about "Nietzsche" (famous German philosopher Friedrich Nietzsche) and not "nature". "A very interesting side light is thrown on this by Nietzsche. Only if we assume a god - this is Nietzsche - ... Thanks for subtitles anyway. It's helping for us learning English. Greetings from Europe.

[@ElizabethMayo-sf4wg]

Anytime I see a video by John Lennox, I want to watch it. I wish I could be like him...when he doesn't get ruffled when someone insults him. I'm trying hard to remember to do that. How he doesn't get mad when someone insults is awe inspiring. I just marvel at this man!!!

[@justinbauk1026]

John Lennox should be an everyday name. He is brilliant. Unfortunately every time I try to get someone to read or listen to him, they simply cannot follow.

[@amarisbenjamin9735]

He's brilliant and hilarious, i love him.

[@eng50green]

Wow, this the most thought provoking discussion i've heard so far this year! what a good speaker john lennox is, crystal clear.

[@olufemiadeleye9462]

His wisdom is in the order of Paul. This presentation of the gospel is highly needed in many parts of the world, and urgently so. It dispels the whole controversial status of the religious church in which the message of the the gospel of divine Kingdom has either been misrepresented or misjudged. My heart rejoice at the sound of this total counsel of God. More power to your body, soul and mind Prof John Lennox. You are strengthened with might in the inner man by the Spirit of Christ. Amen.

[@LogicAndReason2025]

Best arguments in favor of atheism yet.

[@lonematrix48]

Thanks alot for this I subbed.

[@delilalobo1296]

Thank you Dr Lennox. You have helped strengthen my faith. I am a Christian in India, God intervenes in our lives many times, but we fail to recognize it as such.

[@schmetterling4477]

In Christianity we don't believe that god intervenes. That's superstition.

[@delilalobo1296]

@@schmetterling4477 what, then is Christianity?

[@schmetterling4477]

@@delilalobo1296 A superstition that says that Jesus will come back to resurrect people and to judge their resurrected corpses. The resurrected will then, for the most part, be thrown into a lake of fire. They stole that part from the Egyptians, it seems.

[@delilalobo1296]

I am confused. Are you saying that the whole of Christianity is a superstition? From your earlier comment I thought you were referring to God intervention as a superstition

[@schmetterling4477]

@@delilalobo1296 That's another superstition, just not one practiced in proper Christianity.

[@Paul-qr7hu]

Fantastic. What an amazing guy. New personal hero.

[@catherine8326]

Thank you! Historical Science Book by Andrew Simms, Former President of Royal College of Psychiatrists, quotes distinguished meta-analysis, the vast volume of religious belief has a beneficial effect.

[@derhafi]

Does that make it true? Surely not.

[@stwoods25]

Thank God for him! Who is better than John Lennox at apologetics?

[@LaMASIA-5611]

Steve Woods WLC is pretty good too

[@Roy-ol3qx]

The one that really moved me from Militant Atheist to Christianity was Hugh Ross, Gary Habermas, and him.

[@immanuel829]

@@Roy-ol3qx I love Hugh Ross and Gary Habermas, too ❤

[@amazinchiik]

I enjoyed this lecture he made some interesting points regarding both sides of the coin. I honestly don't see how science could ever point in the opposite position of God. We need to reason because we understand life to be reasonable. Then that turns to the question of why must it be reasonable? Why must there be an intelligent explanation if we believe in randomness and chaos as the beginning of life? This has always been my question when the idea of evolution was introduced to me. Even a child has that reasoning to question everything so that it will make sense. This tells me there must be a reasonable and intelligent being out there.

[@ereynatetasgrafas9933]

Jesus Christ is His name.

[@lionelangemario]

***** I didn't expect better coming from you. Sha na na...

[@lionelangemario]

***** Not much.

[@MacCadalso]

Mega Drive You killed em megadrive. A bit overkill. Roasted em good 🔥🔥

[@josephlandrut4154]

Thank you for your video John.

[@GloballyEnglishESLtutoringSolo]

All those that John has quoted would be appreciated so one could follow up and read it.

[@dereksamueldani7336]

A worthy successor to the great C S Lewis

[@PassionForHisWord]

Dr. Lennox, I think, did not intend to demonstrate evidence for the supernatural in this video. The question he was asked was whether or not belief in the supernatural is irrational, and I think the implication is that the question is whether or not belief in the supernatural is intrinsically irrational. So, Dr. John Lennox accordingly presented a structure of belief in the supernatural that is in fact not intrinsically irrational.

[@rosemcguinn5301]

WOW. "To God all things are natural." All things which He created, of course, and not the imitations of His works such as manmade objects that harm the natural world. But I like your point here. Nice.

[@rosemcguinn5301]

***** Not supernatural? Well, I can agree with you that only God is my supernatural choice.

[@cygnusustus]

Belief without evidence is irrational. There is no evidence for the Supernatural. Therefore, belief in the Supernatural is irrational. A simple syllogism which nevertheless appears beyond the grasp of this simpleton.

[@Traditz]

@@cygnusustus there is a limitation to the empirical process, to make such a claim that what is observable is all there is, yet even that is filtered through the bias and lense of consciousness. Theism and atheism are assumptions at its core. No one questions there is an infinite parameter of energy at some point at the beginning of the universe/multiverse, what brings most people to theism logically is the assumption that omniscience exists.

[@darylbangerter7171]

@@cygnusustus A lovely syllogism to be sure, but the premises are suspect. We could quibble about the evidence, but the first I find to be far more interesting. It depends on what you mean by irrational; if you mean a-rational I'll cede the point. Supposing hypothetically there is no evidence either way, then believing either way is a-rational, but clearly not set against reason.

[@mapsandviolins1]

“We wouldn’t dream of basing our relationship with a... human being on a measured performance, and an acceptance at the end of a long history of performing laws... yet millions of people think that that’s the way to base their relationship with God. …Christ is the only person that offers me the knowledge of forgiveness right here and now. So, in my life, I try to live for Him not in order to gain His acceptance, but because... I already have it.” There it is - that Gospel I keep forgetting!

[@Willzyx88]

We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ.