Is Bryce Young the REAL Problem? Week 2 Film Review vs. Chargers

[@kylesuddreth5679]

This is a really good breakdown. Bryce absolutely has to sit just to sort out how bad he is at basic stuff right now, and if you view him as anything long term why not shield him form the dumpster fire rather than throw him into the middle of it and expect him not to burn? My biggest question about the Panthers: This is two coaches and three play callers where the scheme looks like absolute ass and has a myriad of trash short passing plays while barely running the ball, why is this all so similar and still being run? Reich never ran an offense like that in Indy as HC or in Philly as their OC. Reich's OC Brown (that was forced on him by Tepper btw) ran nothing like that in LA working with the Rams. Now they bring in Canales, who has historically talked a ton about using motion to disguise plays and wanting to be stubborn about the run. No motion, not forcing the run, what the hell happened? This looks nothing like what Tampa did last year with Canales as OC. I get that the talent is really low (Fitterer and Rhule demolished this roster) but why does every coaching change look the same on the field? I really don't want to blame Tepper for everything including what's on the field, but I keep coming back to that report that he handed a play to Reich and told him to run it in the next game. Is Tepper setting a playbook and the coaches have to work from it? Is that why this all looks the same regardless of coach? I'm at my wits end with this shit, it's just painful watching my team slowly fall apart in every conceivable way. Had to get that out, thanks for the good breakdown. Until something changes I guess I'll keep pounding my head into a wall.

[@tycimaglio9222]

I've been thinking this exact same thing! the Panthers were dead last in the league (by a wide margin) last year in pre-snap motion (I think teams in the top 5 were 49ers, Chiefs, Miami - almost like there's a correlation between pre-snap motion, confusing defenses and offensive effectiveness... hmm weird) but we haven't added any sort of pre-snap motion at all even though that's what it seemed like we were bringing in Canales for, and he even talked about that all offseason..... We even have a pretty decent offensive line right now, we really need to be using that to run the ball and get Bryce (or Andy)ahead of the sticks so they have the opportunity to make plays.... Hubbard isn't a workhorse stud RB but he's also not the worst and with out offensive line we could be running a lot more, really hoping J Brooks turns out to be a monster too cuz that would help a lot, but if you look at the last few games of the year last season when we were at our most-competitive, it's because we started running the ball a lot more after Reich got fired, and that was even with a much worse O Line... Obviously being down by 30 at all times doesn't help and makes it hard to run the ball too but even early in games it doesn't seem like we've done much to establish a run game, work the trenches, and open up plays down the field. Even guys like Thielen and DJ have been pretty great route runners for most of their careers and really should be able to get some separation if they're actually given a chance to run decent routes in man coverage but when you have all 4 receivers running the same exact slants and out routes 40 plays a game, with zero pre-snap motion, no threat of a run, no threat of a deep ball.... it makes it impossible for Bryce (or anyone) to throw the ball. I mean maybe it's just because they want to simplify things for Bryce but that's not how the NFL works... you run simple plays for Bryce and it simplifies things even more for the defense, making it actually exponentially harder for Bryce. Coming into the draft too it seemed like his strongest attribute was his IQ, seems like they should be trying to utilize that more and win each play with motion and clever disguises before they even snap the ball - in fact they have to because its clear we don't have anyone on the field with the physical abilities to win a play after the ball is snapped... Anyway.... idk, glad you said it though and I'm not the only one confused as hell why our plays are still this elementary, boring, and telegraphed after bringing in a guy who said he was going to change all of that..... now the question is do we even draft a new QB when we have a top 3 pick again next year? is it even worth it????

[@FeelTheBrees]

Thank you! I'm assuming that each new coaching staff wants to ease their playbook onto Bryce, and unfortunately that forces it to be limited to simple stuff. The problem is that the owner of the franchise is impatient, and either fires the coaches before it settles in or benches Bryce, like he just did. To be honest with you as well, I think one of the worst decisions that I've ever seen was that they didn't let him play in the preseason. I see no downside to getting him more game reps to not only learn ANOTHER new offensive scheme, but to develop more himself. That, coupled with his immediate benching after two games, is wild to me. I'm so sorry with what you've had to deal with as a Panthers fan haha, hopefully you guys are able to get some serious playmakers in the future. And, well, hopefully the owner allows this new coaching staff to stick around and build something like how Dan Campbell did it in Detroit. These things take time, Tepper needs to give them that.

[@FeelTheBrees]

And also, I'm genuinely shocked at the teams inability to run the football. There is ZERO threat of a rushing attack, and very little motion to even disguise anything. Jonathan Brooks could be a true game changer when he gets back healthy.

[@Pingieking]

Do you think that Bryce's issues can be solved with better coaching? I know he's not executing well but it also doesn't look like his coaches are really helping out.

[@tigerwoods373]

Maybe. I don't watch college so idk how he was but usually smaller qbs need to scramble. Idk if he's athletic enough, he doesn't seem very quick or agile. I think he needs a good coach that would redesign the entire system around his height limitations. I used to think Brees was small but he was 6 foot. The amount of work they would need to make a system work for him would be massive. But at that point why? Why wouldn't you draft another qb? It's unfortunate that they gave up so much to get him, I'm sure that adds even more pressure. He should've never been put in this situation. I don't mean to sound like I told you so, I just knew when they drafted a qb that's 5'10 it would backfire. It's like someone that doesn't know anything about football made that pick. A qb really needs to be 6'1-6'4 because most of these lineman are over 6'4. You can't be a good qb if you can't see most of the field.

[@Pingieking]

@@tigerwoods373 I feel bad for him. Based on what I've heard and read from reputable football people, he came into the draft with likely the highest football IQ and good accuracy. It seemed with his mind and a good structure to utilize his strengths, he could have achieved some success in the league. Hopefully a good coach picks him up as a project and we see him as a reinvented player in a few years.

[@Stoopidpolice]

@@Pingiekingwhat he was trying to say was that no matter the cos h, they don't just have to reinvent Bryce, they would have to reinvent football for him to be successful.

[@FeelTheBrees]

I think, at this point, it's situational. He's had, what, three different head coaches in three years from college to the NFL, with all different schemes. A different team with the right staff could absolutely turn his career around!

[@FeelTheBrees]

That's the thing with Bryce! He was highly regarded for his intellect, and that was what made him the player that he is. Unlike other players such as Stroud or Caleb Williams, Bryce doesn't have that athletic ability to make up for his flaws early on. If you're not athletically gifted, you gotta be able to dissect the game, and with how many coaches have come in and out combined with the organizations impatience, he never had a shot.

[@Requiem237]

How about now?

[@FeelTheBrees]

Doesn't change anything in my mind. Andy Dalton is a 15-year veteran who can read any defense thrown at him, plus he can learn any offense given how many different teams he's been on. It was a great win for them, but unsustainable. I don't see this team as very talented, and think it was really just one of those surprise upset wins that will cause some overreactions both in the Panthers building and outside of it. If Dalton continues to play at this level, and the team wins anywhere from 7-9 wins, then I am completely wrong. If they win about four games, then it's just one or two more than they would have with Bryce at the helm, and there's a 14-year difference in experience. Super interesting situation going on down in Carolina right now.

[@tigerwoods373]

I just want to know who decided to (1) give up so much for the number one pick (2) decided a 5'10" qb was worth that. Was it the coach or owner? From what we know it seems like the owner and seems logical since it seems like someone who doesn't know football decided it. Just really a horrible situation for everyone, young, the team, coaches and fans. That one trade set them back at least 5 years. Why would you have a head coach and general manager if you think you know better and go against them?

[@jmgonzales7701]

What irks me is why would anyone draft a 5'10qb. He can be a running back instead.

[@twontonamo]

Rumors were that the previous staff wanted Stroud but the owner and his wife pushed for Bryce.

[@FeelTheBrees]

I think it is most DEFINITELY the owner. I believe Tepper has a history, across all of his major owned professional sports franchises, to be impatient/rushing a team to be good. And I get wanting to be competitive, but good things take time. He gave up the Panthers best pass catcher for Young along with so much else. Imagine where this team would be if they stayed where they were and took a later quarterback while retaining the rest of their picks + talent? To your point as well, the fact that they gave up all of this for a shorter quarterback who's ENTIRE game is intellect rather than athletic ability is insane. These types of quarterbacks needs strong systems, good play calling, and patience. Carolina gave him none of those things and forgot to add anyone who can make plays after the catch. I feel terrible for all the fans and players involved.

[@twontonamo]

@@FeelTheBrees Yeah exactly. If the mental stuff isn't there then there is literally nothing Bryce can fall back on to succeed. His "playmaking" ability to extend plays doesn't really work in the NFL because he's not athletic enough to overcome elite NFL defensive players.

[@tycimaglio9222]

@@twontonamo 100% thought we were going to draft Stroud, that's what it seemed like everything was moving towards throughout the entire month or 2 leading up to the draft - even bringing in someone like Andy Dalton who is of a similar size, build, and skill set to Stroud and with the history of QBs that Reich and McCown have all worked with being of that same size, build, and skillset..... I was flabbergasted when we drafted Bryce ;( hopeful, but flabbergasted.... as this video has shown though, I still think he could be a decent QB in the NFL, in the right system with the right players around him but there really isn't anything helping his case and he isn't the type of physical specimen that can put a team on his back with no help - I think he could be an elite field general though if he was on a team like the 49ers, getting the ball out quick and letting your skill players get YAC, unfortunately the Panthers don't have half the talent the 49ers do lol

[@kevo1441]

He’s the problem.

[@FeelTheBrees]

He is absolutely ONE of the problems, but I don't think he's the MAIN one. The fact that it could be either or is unfortunate though.

[@kevo1441]

@@FeelTheBrees well, The Panthers are the problem for managing their team and getting into this situation. But Young is the problem for why the offense is in its current state.

[@LGPanthers1]

Granted, the roster is not performing well at large (apart from the O-line, surprisingly) and the playcalling is painfully easy to diagnose for the defense, a la that screen to Johnson for no gain where Moton had to account for essentially 3 defenders and had no right option to take. It also looks like Bryce isn't reading defenses pre-snap and in the pocket on his drops but rather operating on pure progression and locking on his reads. Corners lie but Safeties don't, I think it's pretty clear that despite being the more "cerebral" of the recent 7-on-7 era college QBs that virtually none of them (apart from maybe Stroud) have ever been taught how to pre-snap diagnose and alter protections/guess the coverage at any elevated level. This often results in holding the ball for too long and cutting off half the field with his panicked feet when he moves out of the pocket unnecessarily. It's definitely a confidence issue, but he's had 3, maybe 3 and a half, different systems in the last 3 years so that's understandable. Hopefully he gets to just relax a bit and see the game from the sideline and film perspectives with Dalton diagnosing pre-snap like the savvy vet he is.

[@Vainglory14]

I'm not trying to say that he could be a top 10 QB in the right situation, but the play design is embarrassingly poor in Carolina. The spacing is all off, there's no motion, and you can tell by the receiver's heads that the timing of the progression is unmanageable. It's no surprise he's not playing with confidence.

[@andrewskokan6372]

Well said

[@foxfire1112]

I think his play and the play design are products of each other

[@Vainglory14]

@@foxfire1112 yeah I think you're right to some extent, they're probably trying to simplify the playcalls to make it easy on Young, but the problem is that you also make it easy on the defense. A lot of the top playcallers talk about "the illusion of complexity", where things look complex if you don't know what's going on, but if you do it's simple, and that's what they should be building for. Or should have been building for I guess, now they're building for the Red Rifle.

[@foxfire1112]

@@Vainglory14 i do think that the staff probably had a chat and for the sake of their jobs decided they needed to sit him. We'll see if they are a bigger part of the problem soon

[@FeelTheBrees]

Absolutely. There were a few plays that I had to keep rewatching because of the receivers heads. Sometimes you have guys not even running full routes, not turning around, not anticipating a throw, and when they do, then Bryce misses it. All around poor offensive play going on in Carolina, but there is no question that the play design has not helped anyone.

[@ThatFalloutGod]

Really good video. You didn't have to talk out of your ass as if you know all about the autistic details of how offenses function, just looking at the All-22 tape and just seeing what happens (not that getting into detail is never good or needed). I watched Bryce at Alabama, he's the second best QB I've ever seen in Tuscaloosa (Tua being at the top). I saw him backpack a wildly overrated roster (offense) with a grand total of three good, reliable weapons between his two seasons, and a bad OL, while dealing with Bill O'Brien being a shitter of an OC (and the defense getting shafted by the worst DC to ever disgrace the sport, Pete Golding). He wasn't perfect, he needed a month or two both seasons to get his deep ball to a point that it wasn't vomit-inducing, hit footwork wasn't good, and he could get skittish in the pocket (because he gets used to the bad OL). But you saw the athleticism, you saw the ability to make chicken salad out of chicken shit, you saw the accuracy and decision-making, throwing guys open, throwing to spots, calling protections, audibling, etc. Everything that you wanted in an NFL QB, the shit that actually mattered, you saw from Bryce in college. And I know people love to gaslight themselves and each other, but he was the consensus first overall pick of that Draft, no one seriously argued otherwise (they may've argued Carolina was stupid for trading what they did, but they didn't say Bryce was bad). Last year was a disaster around Bryce. As a rookie with that shitshow, there's basically nothing you can do. This year, these two games? Nothing's actually changed. Yea, on paper things are way better, but it's not manifesting on the field. The WRs suck and can't do anything (for fuck's sake, Thielen's just jogging half the time, and I've seen no one mention how that contributed to the interceptions against New Orleans), the RBs are asked get past a wall every time they touch the ball, the OL is atrocious, and the coaching has been bad. Has Bryce been infallible? Fuck no, but I haven't seen anything that makes me think, "Yea, he's completely broken," like Darnold did with the Jets. Carolina's defense isn't doing them any favors, drafting Legette as your speedster and never scheming him easy passes in space and deep shots is hell, Thielen not used like the reliable target he's supposed to be, Jonathan Brooks not being done any favors by the OL or play-calls, drafting Sanders at TE and forgetting he exists, the OL being fucking bad, etc. You're completely right, everyone on the field and sideline should be blamed for this, but we have to assume coaching is the biggest handicap, because the roster isn't bad. If you gave Carolina's offense to a competent OC who's not running a high school "offense," I think Carolina's at least looking competitive these last two weeks, and probably beating the Chargers (because of the turnovers). The only other thing I'd say in terms of the narrative is that Bryce's size isn't an issue, and size has never been an issue for a player's ability to produce on the field. If you're looking at measurables and care about them more than film, then you're just not serious about getting the best guys you can on your team. People wanna make snide remarks about Bryce "not seeing over the OL" or "having to jump to make passes," and yet they're too stupid to realize that they're hypocritically wrong. Almost none of the QBs in the league are seeing over their OL because of basic math. To clearly see over the line, you're gonna have to clear them by like three or four inches, it's just not feasible unless you have a freak at QB or the Seven Dwarfs blocking. Every QB to ever play uses passing-lanes to see the field, even big guys like Allen. And no QB, including someone who's 6'5 like Allen, is throwing over a defender jumping in their face. They're either going to side-arm it or do a jump-ass, it's basic physics. But these are the same people who talk shit about "Tua being too small" when he's the same size, if not bigger than someone like Caleb Williams (who I've called as being a bust for two years now, but that's another discussion). Point being, the vast majority of people talking about the QB position aren't serious people, they're doorknobs who can't even throw a spiral. Now, do I think Carolina will fix their shit? Hell no, I think Carolina's going to crash and burn, trade Bryce for pennies, continue failing as an organization, and Bryce will flourish somewhere else. Dalton, because he's a good veteran, will look decent for a game or two, people will talk shit about Bryce, Dalton will regress because Carolina sucks, and everyone will memory-hole the entire topic... Or Dalton will be "shit" out the gate because Carolina sucks, and the memory-holing will be expedited by two weeks, either way, the same result will occur. I think Bryce is going to be traded for chump change to a team like the Rams (or Miami if Tua unfortunately retires) and flourish, because he's on a competent team with great coaching. People just expect great players to always backpack a shit team/coaching, but that should never be the standard guys are held to. Where a guy is drafted means just as much, if not more, than who they are as a player.

[@FeelTheBrees]

Thank you! I think a lot of that is absolutely correct, especially when you mention that Bryce was the consensus top pick. We can look in hindsight and say it should have been Stroud, but nobody knew that. Bryce was the guy, it was just a question of who would get him, and Carolina unfortunately just gave up too much in the process. It's very obvious that Carolina made "efforts" to add playmakers, though there are no plays to get them the ball. I've seen more screen passes to Thielen than Legette, which is wild considering that he's supposed to be a dynamic playmaker. In positive(ish) news, Jonathan Brooks hasn't played yet due to injury, so hopefully when he returns he'll give the run game a spark (even if it's small). And finally, what you predicted at the end will likely happen. Dalton will step into the starting role, have a 300 yard passing game in a loss, the team will believe that Bryce was the problem all along, trade him for nothing, and he'll excel with a true play caller in Mike McDaniel and Sean McVay. Dalton will look good because he's been there for a few years and has played in the NFL for so long, that he just doesn't have any more of a learning curve. It'll be a mistake, though Carolina is owned by the most impatient man in the NFL right now, and that's a tough thing to get over.

[@bailoch]

No shit the play calling looks dumb as fuck when your qb can’t run an offense

[@tycimaglio9222]

you know that the quarterbacks don't call the plays right? (unless you're aaron rodgers)

[@FeelTheBrees]

I don't believe that to be the case. I think Bryce can run an offense just fine. If the Panthers were truly that worried about his inability to run an offense properly, he would have made multiple appearances in the preseason. He didn't. Which leads me to believe that play calling is a definite issue among many other things with this roster. Jumping to the assumption that he can't run an offense is a bit of a stretch after he's played less than 20 total games in the NFL.

[@bailoch]

@@FeelTheBrees20 games is a ton of evidence to have, and wow the Panthers have 36 points 😂 truly dysfunctional franchise