Is Building Infrastructure Worth It In HOI4?

[@drewbronson7409]

Excellent analysis. One thing I will mention - as someone who regularly plays the US - is that building infrastructure _while on Civilian Economy_ (or Undisturbed Isolation) and then pivoting to building factories once you get a better economy law is almost always worth it. You essentially get the best of both worlds by not "wasting" production into a penalty.

[@henriquemachado9941]

The stronger the nation, the better it is to build infrastructure. Snowball effect. More infrastructure means faster build up on a state. More civs means faster build up in general. And it all boils down to when you start building mils. The 'when it's time'.

[@Andurianski]

as someone who mains the soviets, I usually build infrastructure on 80% infra cities like moscow, Leningrad, kharkov and then convert mils to civs and then start building civis after I get attache to spain for enough war support to get war economy

[@henriquemachado9941]

@@Andurianski What a peculiar way to do it... I never once used the convert button, not even when out of building slots. *Which, hardly happens, but y'know.*

[@stormsand9]

I used the convert some mills to civ strats once, and although I think I had a higher civilian count than normal by the time I switch to mills, I decided it wasn't worth it because the conversion from a military to civilian factories 9000, and building new civilian is 10,800- I'd rather just be building military equipment with that. Even on basic guns the efficiency of keeping that military Factory running for 3 years really helps build a stockpile for my filler infantry so I can eventually lower the amount of Mills I need on guns and put them all on tanks and mechanized Etc

[@ОлегБунша]

@@Andurianski did you test it? i think build civs in 100% infra province asap should be better

[@bopsop2246]

also consider that factories are not the only thing you'll build. radars, anti airs, airports, railways and especially nuclear reactors late game. If you are playing a very long game it'll basically always be worth it to spam infrastructure especially if you have enough factories to where min maxing isn't important.

[@DELottProductions]

Plus you get movement speed bonuses and supply bonuses, and fuel capacity which can be very useful if you are a nation that has no access to fuel and has to stockpile before a war, or a nation that needs one massive burst.

[@carthagegamingstudios]

True. Basically, the moral is, if you're going to be building in a state (on anything) for at least 480 days (minus the impact of preexisting infrastructure), the infrastructure investment is worth it.

[@bopsop2246]

@@carthagegamingstudios Also I believe existing infrastructure does make the next unit of infrastructure build faster. Does this affect the math described? I imagine it does, as infrastructure’s flat 20% buff to construction speed gets cheaper the more infrastructure there already is.

[@carthagegamingstudios]

Doesn't effect the break even point in terms of building output, just how quickly you get to that break even point. It's still at roughly 3 civs or 6 mils regardless the infrastructure level, you just are able to build to the break even point faster.

[@jeremyglass4283]

Building max infrastructure in all USA core states is also a very good idea because you get buffs to them from the new deal and a massive -50% construction speed for civs, mils, and dockyards due to undisturbed isolation. So may as well build up all those resources and you’ll get the construction speed boost once you start building factories. Plus as the USA you tend to run out of building slots by around 1942 (with rushing dispersed/concentrated V) if you don’t expand, it’s worth it purely for the reason that you can’t have any more factories anyway.

[@simonnachreiner8380]

Yeah it's pretty much always worth it as the US to infrastructure spam due to isolation. As a bonus when you finally wake up you'll mill scale faster. Also between California and Texas the US has the greatest amount of oil of any nation in the game and building infrastructure pretty much lets you fuel the allies single handedly.

[@yephzer5081]

The new 71Cloak

[@Charizard1511]

Fr idk what happened to him

[@user-ht5eu3rz4j]

I miss him

[@Deriak27Forever]

@@user-ht5eu3rz4j Same

[@Torantes]

Died 2023 born 2023 Welcome back 71Cloak

[@sejozwak]

@@Charizard1511 someone told me that he is behind the channel hoe_math, but I doubt

[@Thedefenses]

There is also a very specific case for Sweden, who has an industrial designer that gets upgraded if you build enough infra in your northern most states, Finland, who has a focus that gives civilian factories in 5 core states with enough infra which does not get fulfilled completely by the normal focuses, India and China who both have undeveloped states that suffer supply penalties if the infra in that state is not level 5. Could be there is more specific cases but these are ones i can remember off the top of my head.

[@braize6279]

Well, feel free to make a video on every single nation in the game and every one of their specific focuses 🤷 This is a general foundation that works for every single country in the game

[@Zack_Wester]

Several states in China and maybe the most eastern part of Russia also have. Populated rural reagions or something that gives a penalty the further you are from 5 Infrastructure. Like the whole manchuria is just populated rural. also not sure if it still thing but Infrastructure also raised the recruitment cap of that state (not by a lot). Im talking going from 1 to Infrastructure in London gave you an 1000 recrutment or something like that... not a lot and in general not worth it.

[@Thedefenses]

@@Zack_Wester Infra does not give manpower in anyway.

[@eclipse_434]

I just always build max infrastructure in every state in the order of infrastructure, civs, and then mils in the construction queue. It has a cascading effect in the queue where your economy starts off slow then explodes mid-late game as you get multiple stacks of 15 civs working on building everything in a territory concurrently. I don't really need to worry about min/max strats because this works just fine - even for minor nations that I do a world conquest with. I just finished a flawless communist Australia world conquest run like this with zero issues. The benefits of having max infrastructure in literally every occupied state outweigh the sluggish early game economic trade offs.

[@lionidor1132]

Communist Australia WC? Well done, that focus tree sucks. What year did you finish in?

[@eclipse_434]

@@lionidor1132 Finished in 1959 because I had to slowly whittle down the Japanese, Soviet, Allied, Chinese, and Axis navies in order to get any sort of mainland invasion against major powers. The nice thing is that I had practically infinite manpower after stealing Indonesia, Japan, China, and India's divisions. Basically formed the Australian version of the Greater East Asian Co-Prosperity Sphere and then slowly captured major geopolitical chokepoints for naval assaults onto the major powers.

[@lionidor1132]

@@eclipse_434 '59! I don't think I have the determination to go that far. I played as Australia and made a sweet carrier fleet, inspired by Tibbies. Absolutely wrecked the Japanese, but it's hard to get a naval battle started

[@brettmacneil5136]

Great video! I love building infrastructure as the Soviets because they have so many states with a ton of building slots.

[@RobinMeineke]

In my tests which were mostly related to Germany I found that Infrastructure is usually worth it after building 70k IC , so ≈7 Civs or ≈10Mills. But you don’t only build Civs and Mills, you might also want to build Airfields, Radar, AA and similar things which all benefit from the Infrastructure you build in the beginning. And one big thing for Germany are aswell Refineries which are super expensive and make Infra worth it quickly. And again, related to Germany, they have several focusses and mechanisms that keep increasing the number of building slots per region. So you will have quite a few regions with 20 or more building slots.

[@adamgadbaw7747]

In my experience , building infrastructure in the high resource areas does net you a lot of trade, especially if you're playing someone like the US where you'll be stuck on undisturbed isolation for awhile, you might as well build infra in Texas and California for the bottomless oil.

[@panpsalt6757]

I want to mention one thing about resource trading. AI nations tend to trade with nations of the same ideology without convoys first and foremost. After their own ideology they will attempt to trade with non aligned countries. Additionally, Non aligned nations tend to have little resources especially in steel. If you are playing a non aligned nation in Eurasia that has resources, especially steel, it is all going to be traded by non aligned nations. Countries like Greece and Turkey also have extra trading opinion factor, so their Aluminium and Tungsten will also be traded. For these countries, 8 steel exported is always a civilian factory.

[@ooo_Kim_Chi_ooo]

Infrastructure also effect supply, battle, movement speed, and other stats.

[@janicechristinedenton0451]

I've been meaning to play Mexico and replay China, so this seems like a good starting point for my new strategy for both

[@JDothan]

Also I think it’s even good when you only have a few civs building or are on civ economy. Infra gives you a huge speed boost later on when you’ve got more factories working on the tile… so you can either have an extra civ (maybe, or it could go to CG) or a 40% construction speed boost in a year or two when you’ve got FIFTEEN factories working on the state

[@Zack_Wester]

was going to say don't Infrastructure also give fuel cap (not a lot but it ads upp). plus logistic throughput meaning going to level 5 Infrastructure might cover the cost of 1 logistic hub (maybe not that usefull in a smaller state but on larger one it can mean a lot). also I swear that Infrastructure did a lot of other small stuff. Like it helped whit repairing buildings.

[@vanguard6498]

Thank you, we need men of learning to crunch the numbers like this and keep us laymen informed.

[@bradleycavalier1311]

Yes, because I want my country to be well developed with good roads, trains, and sufficient supply hubs. I want the people of my nation to have comfortable, quality lives! (The Germans entering Paris.) "Damn, these are some nice roads!"

[@P.A.L.S.Offical]

Very helpful and well made video :D

[@guncolony]

There are a few things this video fails to mention - If you build multiple infrastructure the calculus is actually the same, not different. You need ~2x the cost to build your infra but also 2x the building speed bonus. - If you build infra until you get partial mobilization and then build civ/mils this optimizes your output. - However building infra comes at the cost of getting your factories later which means you are going to have marginally less construction speed for the time when you have built your infrastructure but not yet the factories. This matters A LOT for minors that don't have enough factories to fill up 1 construction line of 15 civs. For those countries it's almost always better to just directly build factories instead of infrastructure. - If you have puppets and want to lower their autonomy, then building infra and then factories will lower the autonomy more than building only factories even if both take the same amount of time.

[@getsomeboy321]

Infrastructure build is good if you are stuck on a bad economy law. Kind of situational. Also good for resource rich areas

[@doodooman4545]

Yes as Germany, no as Russia, yes as USA, yes as a nation that needs the resources like Guyana in uk, or in the 10 slot states

[@Odsku]

What about right opposition russia

[@shironee_2384]

Russia lack alumunium for standard production of 40's fighters and CAS so building some infra is really helpful

[@doodooman4545]

@@shironee_2384 why are you making air as Russia, you don’t have the research slots for that, just do 35.2 inf and battleplan

[@doodooman4545]

@@Odsku idk? You have less building slots right so it seems worse

[@Vetiyx]

Yes as Russia wdym, ESPECIALLY as Russia.

[@Jackspladt]

1:17 nope, almost 1000 hours in the game and I didn’t know that until now. Damn.

[@Aragorn-87]

I usually max out the infrastructure in a state and then build the maximum amount of factories on it when I am not attacking early

[@catminttcgu207]

Does infrastructure also increase supply hub range?

[@giorgioberlusconi5247]

yes! infrastructure, level of railway, and the exact placement of the hub all come into play, as well as the size of your division

[@giorgioberlusconi5247]

in a hypothetical, you could make siberia with nearly as much supply as 1936 europe or even greater, but the amount of time to do such is way too long, it's like this video, supply hub building is worth, along with infrastructure, but you have to plan out how much time you have until the war starts and how would you actually use the supply hub or infrastructure in question

[@bierwolf8360]

holy shit, your French might be the the biggest atrocity my ears have suffered in a long time

[@carthagegamingstudios]

If you don't like that, you don't like a native Texan accent. 😋

[@michaelkleen7991]

There should be a bonus to civ construction in civilian econ. It makes no sense to penalize it

[@HansChucrute88]

Why hoi4 still relevant after all these years? Its so easy to get into and so hard to master. Infra is the perfect example, since it affect supply, building speed, fuel storage and Resources. It can help you in the early stages of a invasion, it can up your resources enough to be self sufficient on something like steel, aluminum etc, if you don't need it can help you gain more civs from trade and help your allies at the same time. But it all depends on what country you are, with what tech, at what time, at what front. It can be useless or game changing. Easy to play, hard to master.

[@mp1727]

Building Infrastructure for construction speed is only worth it while you are on civ eco or have some other big malice for civ construction (for example USA in vanilla). People have made spreadsheets for this I believe.

[@MártonSzigeti]

Another great video thanks

[@JDothan]

Haven’t watched but yes for so many reasons

[@carthagegamingstudios]

LOL. I was thinking of you the entire time recording this.

[@JDothan]

@@carthagegamingstudiosI will continue to fight the good fight 😂😂… watching now

[@JDothan]

I do really like your vids though - would it be alright if I reached out to ask you something about KZbin production? Been thinking of making a guide myself, just went full autist Germany and defeated the allies with less than 8k casualties and like 2M killed lol… feel like I could help ppl who find it hard

[@carthagegamingstudios]

I don't really know if I have the expertise, but my process is fairly simple. I screen-record with live commentary using OBS Studio (free), cut and edit with Davinci (free), and then make my thumbnail in PowerPoint of all things. Uploading to KZbin is pretty straightforward from there. Just give it a nice title that is searchable and tag HOI4 in the description.

[@DarkSpiryt1]

Would be great if you can provide some kind of formula or equation on the end of video so we can use in our games.

[@captainmccuckin2698]

What about the resources, the organization regain , division speed

[@FreeMan4096]

simple thing explained in overly complicated way.

[@KK-my6hw]

Build mils, take civs if in single player. It's why most multiplayer games have rules about starting wars too early.

[@agentofchaos3015]

Can you do if anti air is more worth than fighters?

[@carthagegamingstudios]

That's a great premise but it would be hard to test since there are so many different types of fighters. Maybe if I turned off BBA and could test the generic fighter models.

[@jblanchard11]

The pronunciation of ile de france is killing me. It’s ‘eel de france’, not ‘i’ll de france’

[@carthagegamingstudios]

Thanks! Sorry, I really try to restrict my redneck accent as much as I remember to.

[@tritojean7549]

i dont know if you took it into account in this video cause you didnt talk about it but since your capped with the number of factories building on a single building, infra also makes factories build fasterso if you take into account the ic you get in the toime between those two factorie beeing build you also get more ic for building infras

[@Spielkind104]

By the time you’ve doubled your buildingslots construction doesn’t relly matter anymore, so i think it’s relly only worth for a few states in the game

[@theexplosive1062]

Very very good argument. However, I like green number

[@nickstoneham5629]

Does infrastructure do more than increase construction speed and resource output? I know states at max infrastructure can increase their max building slots by 1 for 100pp, but are there other benefits as well, like supply increase or movement speed?

[@AnthemsOfEurope]

-Increased number of resources (+20% per lvl) -Increased local supply -Increased supply efficiency -Increased organization recovery rate for land units

[@nox5555]

@@AnthemsOfEurope also Fuel-

[@thesilentninja9255]

Fuel production and storage

[@benbased7740]

My guidline: worth it for civilian factories, not worth it for military factories. Mills are way cheaper than civs, you spend much less IC per state building mills than for civs=> the IC spent on infra provides less benefit.

[@commissarkordoshky219]

fair enough.

[@Nixdigo]

Yes, play as the USSR without it

[@Karl_Mannerheimer]

Croissant

[@katrinapaton5283]

Yes. There ya go, coulda saved you an entire video.

[@Rick79LUFC]

So short answer...yes ...lol 😅

[@orlandodanielgonzalezalcar3360]

Carthage would you be my pookie 👉🥺👈?

[@Wormopera]

Yes

[@Qwerka]

Yes!

[@hondoplays9461]

And here I was thinking I was the autistic one.

[@baseballworldwide9439]

Lmao

[@Alte.Kameraden]

It used to be before trains. I miss the pre-train update. lol

[@lucienlevu6426]

#france

[@andreaskallstrom9031]

Maybe yes as the U.S., but they are op anyways so who cares?, and maybe yes for Austria because of their treaty. No for every other country in the game. You win the game based on how many guns you have in September 1939. That’s it. And you get the most amount of guns if you build mil factories from start.

[@giulianopisciottano8302]

You have a heavy penalty on mills for every country in the game except Germany at the start

[@sejozwak]

Yes