Is China's New TYPE 003 Aircraft Carrier Vunerable To US Surprise Strike? (WarGames 76) | DCS

[@grimreapers]

Modernized 5th Gen Stealth Attempt: kzbin.info/www/bejne/hZ6bXoWLrJpql7s

[@MrKramersmash]

I would be interested in seeing the first wave of F 35‘s being in stealth, targeting the awacs and first wave of Chinese fighters. Then the murder configuration cleans up.

[@madmike5621]

Agreed, utilize that stealth to neutralize the first wave of defense. Keep that area of engagement closer to China. Gives the Bogs a chance to get closer to launch distance.

[@chrisbeers3933]

Agreed Cap has been sending in the J-20 for china to do this it only makes sense the US would do the same. also the E-2 would likely be farther out in front to provide a better sight picture to the fighters.

[@UTock]

Not his fault some idiot commented saying that the F35 should attack in murder config

[@Minuz1]

@@UTock I would agree with murder config on defense, stealth is defiantly the way for offensive actions with incursions into enemy SAM site ranges.

[@Gabriel_McMillan]

For a major counter attack, like this, I think a few F-22s would also be allocated by the USAF to defend the attack aircraft. Even if we assume there would not be, some of the F-35s would have gone in in stealth configuration, to intercept the interceptors, and also to scout out ahead of the main attack formation, I would imagine. At least 2, I would think, probably 4 or more, with the "murder configuration" on the others, which would be less far ahead of the main strike aircraft. Also, we would have sent in a B-2 with stealth F-35s, for the initial surprise attack, I would think, on a SEAD and anti-ship mission. B-2s would likely be escorted in by F-22s, I would imagine, and the B-2 would deploy its ordnance against the Destroyers and ground-based air defenses and radar. and then withdraw, after which, the F-35s, with HARMs on their external stores, would follow this up with another SEAD salvo, of AGM-88s, or improved variants. You might then follow this with stealthy F-35s and super-hornets, with some of each configured for both air to air and air to ground/sea missions. Note that the Hornet can also carry the LRASM, as well as the HARM and the SLAM-ER. I don't think the B-2 carries the LRASM, but the B-21 can reportedly carry 30 x LRASMs on rotary launchers. These follow-on, F-35s and Hornets (perhaps with some of the F-22s remaining in the area, after the B-2s/B-21s have safely egressed from the hostile airspace) would then engage and destroye whatever aircraft the Chinese might have deployed in response to the initial B-2 and F-35 attack, and will also offer another opportunity to finish off any targets on the ground and any ships that may have survived the first strike. It will allow you to draw the Chinese fighters away from the protective envelope of the ground-based S-400 and any destroyers which may have survived, so that these fighters may be destroyed, before launching the 2nd wave of the air to ground attack. That, I think, would make an excellent sequel to this video, however it turns out (I'm only halfway though, at this point, and very much looking forward to the rest).

[@jules2326]

The rate at which you put out these amazing simulations baffles me. Love everything including all the nitty gritty details, keep it up!

[@dexlab7539]

Agreed - Cap is Amazing! That’s why I keep coming here to watch all the fun ! 🤩

[@Wolfe351]

split the F35s into two groups 1st lot goes in ahead in full stealth(GR pilots), then the AI F35s in partial Murder layout (drop tank inplace of gun pod) then the Enemy AWACs see's the Second group of F35s and the first group can get the jump on the J15s

[@lolasdm6959]

AWACs still detect stealth craft at this range, just not very percise. It can't tell the number or type of craft these stealth formations have. But it cal tell they are there. Low radar return does not mean zero return. The AWACs seeing a "flock of birds" flying at high altitudes a head of a enemy jet formation isn't going to think it's a flock of birds.

[@waragainstgreed]

i dont know whats more entertaining, watching the sim or listening to caps reactions to narrow misses

[@IRONIC1688]

The importance of the 003 is mostly the catapulting capability that allows to launch jets with full fuel and ordnance. The current launch does not allow full weight capacity. Plus they want to be able to launch an AWACS and a tanker that look remarkably like the E2 and S3.

[@xdboi7859]

I think if the f 35s were in stealth, the Americans would have done better

[@douglasarthur2673]

I was thinking about adding a couple of B2’s at a completely different (~90 degrees ?) attack vector, timed to coincide with the main missile attack arriving.

[@342Rodry]

51:15 this kind of reaction are one of the reasons I like this channel.

[@googacct]

Good simulation. Really enjoyed it. One scenario to investigate at some point would be the Rapid Dragon system where large volleys of cruise missles are dropped from cargo planes. How well would it work at overwelming missile defence systems. I am sure DCS can not do Rapid Dragon at this point, but you could simulate from the point after the missiles are dropped.

[@salty_honky]

Actually horrible and very unlikely sim he just makes america look like beginners not doing any of the things the navy would actually do

[@CombatIneffective]

The prevaling thought is that the F-35s would go in Stealth config until the air defense is dealt with. However if this is a surprise attack to take out Fujian, my thought would be you could send 4 of the 35s in Stealth configuration to take out the AWACS. They would be ahead of the attack wave by about 150 nautical miles. They take out the AWACS. The J-15s would immediately scramble but they wouldn't have the AWACS support. They would then have to rely on their own radars, the S-400 radar and the ship radar to find the Super bugs and the rest of the F-35s that are in murder configuration. I would also think that the F-35s would come in from a different vector than the F-18s as well. Same range, different angle coming in. This means the J-15s have to spread out to target both threats. That means they can't just ripple the PL-15s into the straight line of death coming in. For sake of ease, just have the LHA at like 30 degrees difference to the main attack run. 2 vectors. I bet you they get through or have a fighting chance of doing so.

[@lenardill4851]

i agree that simulation was just too easy for the red side

[@Arrix949]

I agree too. F35s would always be in stealth config. It's their biggest advantage.

[@lolasdm6959]

Why would there be no jet patrol in the skies for the AWACs? Why would there be no secondary AWAC in reserve? Internet tacticans like to imagine fighting against morons. Also low radar return does not mean no return, radar can still see stealth jets at close range.

[@CombatIneffective]

@@lolasdm6959 because this is considered a surprise attack over their own homeland. That AWACS is flying over the mainland next to a base with J-15s armed and ready along with the S-400 site and a radar picket from destroyers. There wouldn't be a need for a jet patrol with it. And yes low observable does mean it can be seen. But which is the closer range? The detectable range it can be seen on radar? Or the range of the Aim 120 D. My bet is on the bvr missile.

[@lolasdm6959]

@@CombatIneffective What? The entire war is about being attacked across the entire Chinese coastline. Enemy aircrafts are within range of your valuable assets and you expect the Chinese commanders to be all brain dead? Oh yeah surely the enemy would never try to do any sneaky attacks. Yeah just have zero reserves, and no air patrol. To launch a BVR missile, the second you opened your launch bay the enemy will have a large radar return on your EXACT location. To even enter within range of a BVR attack, you already entered into detectable range, the enemy already know you exist in that general direction. BVR attack is within 150km, that is quite enough distance for detecting a stealth jet. A radar showing an object the size of a hummingbird flying above the open ocean isn't tricking anyone with half a braincell.

[@superflyguy4488]

Also, a diversionary attack by the US may have worked well, the primary aim of a diversionary attack is to force your enemy to commit its reserve, either to counter the diversionary attack or to backfill the initial responders.

[@Gabriel_McMillan]

It is estimated that the LRASM has a range of 300 nmi. The LRASM can be deployed from both the F-35 and the F-18. Apparently LRASMs have also been launched from the B1B Lancer, and even from the P-8 Poseidon! Apparently the LRASM weighs 2,500 lb (1,100 kg), in air-launch configuration, per Wikipedia, anyway. While a Superhornet may struggle to carry such a missile that range, a B1B certainly would not.

[@michaelmcclain6704]

I'd like to see tham add the F-15EX. Carrying 22 AAMs including 20 AIM 120-D seems like it could be a game changer in these mass missile exchanges.

[@Oscar-qh5jn]

Listening to the GR banter before the battle is always fun lol

[@RossOneEyed]

We poke fun at the Jarheads because - well, they're Jarheads. They poke fun at use dog faces. It's like teasing your siblings, it's a family thing. And we all poke fun at the Donald Duck navy. In real life, the Marines got a big boost by a book "Guadalcanal Diary" during WWII. It gave the Marines a mythos. So, the Marines think they won the war in the Pacific with their six divisions (and the American public bought that story).

[@subparpenguin9587]

I love it. It's like Top Gear/Myth Busters meets DCS

[@hades0572]

An attack on a Chinese CV would be a combined arms excercise, so you would have B1's, B-52s, B2's, F-35 and F-22s. This would also be the sort of scenario where an re-fitted 747 with an revolver looking carousel based in it's interior firing AIM-120D en masse just like the TU-95.

[@briana5444]

Agreed, to pull off a strike on such a target we really would be pulling out all the stops and have it timed perfectly using decoys, HARMS, tomahawks, etc

[@bussolini6307]

then china should have much more planes than the only 24 J-15B too.

[@briana5444]

@@bussolini6307 tbh it would be an absolutely massive conflict, so yes, I believe China would have more time so support from multiple air bases, but also I think US would be utilizing Okinawa and Guam too, we also have 20% of our B2s stationed in Australia

[@bussolini6307]

@@briana5444 but okinawa and guam bases would probably be hit by chinese missiles and be inoperable

[@briana5444]

@@bussolini6307 that’s not what his previous simulations showed

[@xenaguy01]

10:30 Yeah, I understand the game limitations, I can see how it would be difficult to program refueling, but . . . 1) Having served on a carrier (USS Kitty Hawk CVA-63) in Vietnam, I can say with certainty that there would be 6 or more Hornets refueling the squadron immediately after takeoff, and the attack squadron would loiter, and join up for a concentrated attack run all at once (or more probably by sixes), not one at a time, in line. 2) Also, the USN would certainly neutralize the enemy AWACS first thing, giving the Hornets an added 100-150 miles undetected. That's been American strategy since the advent of the F-117. (See Tom Clancy's _"Red Storm Rising.")_ After all, stealth is the biggest strength of the F-35, why would one toss that away? 3) Now that I think about it, wouldn't China know the US strike force was in the East China Sea? And have an AWACS 300 miles from the carrier, watching the US fleet?

[@syedahmed9323]

Yea that's what I was thinking too

[@Davros-vi4qg]

No buddy packs for ai or players 😖

[@sulyokpeter3941]

Yeah, and not just AWACS but the Satellites also because this preapations would take months or so, so you cant really do it silently or how to say. Undetected. I would love to see in a real time simulation with real time pilots, commanders etc which side would win. USA Carrier Group attack on the Chinese Carrier Group. With their most modern assets. That would be interesting. Iam not speaking about real fight, nobody wants a world war where people dies, but a real time simulation between this 2 giants. :D I think USA easy win, especially if NATO decide to help, with the newest and the one of the best Destroyers in the world right now, the Type 45 Destoyers. I think if USA decide to attack a Chinese Carrier Group, they will ask for at least 1 Type 45 Destroyer. And not to mention the RAF Eurofighters also. Okay, they can not really operate them from carriers, but not really needed to operate them if you can position 15 of them nearby in Japan for example, and then they refuel before the final path to the targets, or they can actually ask for the French Rafale M which is the navy version, and it can actually operate from a USA carrier.

[@briana5444]

Yeah I’d think they would be watching the carrier and would be able to scramble faster, but also the US would have bomber support and tomahawks launching to saturate air defenses with and using decoys etc

[@Silo-Ren]

@@briana5444 yeah, that's what I was thinking as well with the decoys. The Chinese would have no choice but to waste enormous amounts of missles, and hopefully their good ones.

[@Evocati-Augusti]

Whats crazy is the same scenarios are being played out at the 25th Intelligence Squadron (25 IS) at Hurlburt Field, By integrating all-source intelligence and electronic combat capability for special operations forces (SOF), the 25 IS has made their unique intelligence resources integral to SOF mission planning, rehearsal, and execution... "Born Under Fire"

[@EvolvedTactical]

Thanks for the hard work putting this together, as well as with the mods yall are doing to bring modernized weapons to the sim. One thing to note is that, technically, you only used half of the Reagan's Hornets. Reagan has 4 Hornet squadrons of 12 planes a piece, not counting the Growlers. 24 more Super Hornets, loaded out in murder configuration, would have picked up the missile slack and allowed the F-35s to maintain stealth configuration. IRL, those Lightnings would also data link with Hornets, giving an even better chance of good target solutions. But I get it, there are limitations on what the server can do, and what you guys can model in game. Excellent work!

[@christophero55]

Great job! I really appreciate the work you all are putting into improving these simulations. 🙂

[@luke_c2219]

Something to consider for the murder lightnings, would sacrificing 2 amram delta's for 2 drop tanks be worth while since you've all ready got the compromised RSC and usually being launched from carrier's and needing to cover long distances. I don't know if it's modelled to carry them in game but I think it would be worth while

[@Smokeyr67]

As yet there are no external tanks for the F-35.

[@yiping7193]

Another awesome video, but a bit of mix feelings as Shanghai is my birth city. I need to point out glaring issue is Shanghai harbour is full of skyscrapers, the entire city of 21 million ppl mostly lives in high rise buildings. Those low flying cruise missile would have hit multiple buildings before they even reach it.

[@Gabriel_McMillan]

Looks excellent thus far, at the 24 minute mark. You just remarked that the F-35s, because they are not in stealth configuration, could not have gone in early... First, for a major counter attack, like this, I think a few F-22s would also be allocated by the USAF to defend the attack aircraft. Even if we assume there would not be, some of the F-35s would have gone in in stealth configuration, to intercept the interceptors, and also to scout out ahead of the main attack formation, I would imagine. At least 2, I would think, probably 4 or more, with the "murder configuration" on the others, which would be less far ahead of the main strike aircraft. Also, we would have sent in a B-2 with stealth F-35s, for the initial surprise attack, I would think, on a SEAD and anti-ship mission. B-2s would likely be escorted in by F-22s, I would imagine, and the B-2 would deploy its ordnance against the Destroyers and ground-based air defenses and radar. and then withdraw, after which, the F-35s, with HARMs on their external stores, would follow this up with another SEAD salvo, of AGM-88s, or improved variants. You might then follow this with stealthy F-35s and super-hornets, with some of each configured for both air to air and air to ground/sea missions. Note that the Hornet can also carry the LRASM, as well as the HARM and the SLAM-ER. I don't think the B-2 carries the LRASM, but the B-21 can reportedly carry 30 x LRASMs on rotary launchers. These follow-on, F-35s and Hornets (perhaps with some of the F-22s remaining in the area, after the B-2s/B-21s have safely egressed from the hostile airspace) would then engage and destroye whatever aircraft the Chinese might have deployed in response to the initial B-2 and F-35 attack, and will also offer another opportunity to finish off any targets on the ground and any ships that may have survived the first strike. It will allow you to draw the Chinese fighters away from the protective envelope of the ground-based S-400 and any destroyers which may have survived, so that these fighters may be destroyed, before launching the 2nd wave of the air to ground attack. That, I think, would make an excellent sequel to this video, however it turns out (I'm only halfway though, at this point, and very much looking forward to the rest).

[@hughmungus2760]

as far as Im aware F22s can't reach the chinese mainland from US airbases and would require alot of tanking to keep aloft. This would probably tip the chinese off and cause J20s to get scrabled to go after the tankers.

[@wolf06291980]

At that point, The B-2 could just bomb the carrier into dust! wouldn't even worry about the other sites.

[@Gabriel_McMillan]

@@wolf06291980 Maybe. I'm not sure about the B2, but the B1B only carries 24 x LRASMs, and the B-21 is said to carry 30. You may not make it passed the S-400 with those missiles, much less the destroyers too, without some additional SEAD operations and assets. And the B2 is subsonic, and can be roughly located with a network of several L-band radars, like those on the S-400 and the destroyers. If they can get supersonic fighters airborne, they could overrun the B2. On the other hand, in my plan (I increasingly favor the use of the B1B), we want them to scramble supersonic fighters, because we want the 2nd wave to intercept them, but ideally, we want that to happen after the destroyers are destroyed, perhaps after a few Hornets have also discharged HARMs towards any remaining destroyers and the S-400 and other enemy radars too. With the B1B, we can come in at 200 feet and Mach 0.96, and then deploy the cruise missiles before we are seen, or at least before they have any hope of an intercept, after which, the F-22s will cover the B1B retreat, which will itself climb, accelerate to Mach 1.25, and make a rapid exfil, while the Chinese jets deployed to hunt it down find themselves running right into the F-22 escorts, and the first F-35s, in stealth configuration, with several in the proverbial "beast mode" following behind, along with the hornets, some of which will be in air to air mode. By the time the interceptors and the 2nd wave from the Navy Carrier meet, the B1B will halfway to Guam. But we want them to notice the B1B, so they will scramble what they have. We want the B1B to lead the strike, so it will be the first thing they see, and so it will have already fired and begun RTB before the Chinese jets get off the runway, ideally.

[@wolf06291980]

@@Gabriel_McMillan I agree with your assessment. However, you would change the loadout of the B2 to fit the situation. Rather than using glide bombs that are vulnerable to SAM, I would pick the GBU-37 GPS guided freefall bomb. Or, hell put some dumb slicks on there and carpet the carrier. You aren't shooting those down.

[@Gabriel_McMillan]

@@wolf06291980 Won't work. You underestimate the S-400 and the Chinese destroyers. You need to launch from hundreds of miles away, and use low-observable munitions, even in the B2. And in the B2, if they can see you on IR sensors, they can shoot you down with a MIG or a destroyer or an S-400 missile which can work with datalinked sensors or that has an IR sensor on the missile. A SU-35 is said to be able to see a stealth aircraft from 30 miles away, using its IRST, and can also see them from a considerable distance with their airborne L-band search radars, and perhaps even to develop a weapons quality track, with only passive sensors, using datalinks to other airborne and ground/sea-based L-band radars, or so I hear, anyway. Using a stealth aircraft to draw the enemy aircraft out to sea sort of defeats the point, if they won't see it until it is almost on top of them. Also, China has very good GPS jamming, which is why the LRASM has a multi-mode seeker.

[@marinuslubbe3993]

Good simulation once again. From all the scenarios I've seen looks like the attacker is always at a disadvantage ( which is true in real life I supose ). Other than that, good to see the AIM120D's and the PL15's working properly finally. Kinda weird what happened with the dd fired HQ9's in the 2nd simulation tho. You could see them exploding on their own in the air. They basically did nothing.

[@rustybowtie2588]

19:12 best description I've heard in a long time

[@68pishta68]

@16:49...LHA1 Tarawa? Decommissioned 2009...was on her May/Nov 1989. Had 2 Harriers land and take off from the deck. Mostly all CH-46 and CH-53's back then.

[@joeandjoe2]

I love hearing the genuine enthusiasm and excitement in your voice Cap. I hope your doing well.

[@paulallen8597]

I have not yet watched this entire video, but I just wanted to say this while I'm thinking about it. US destroyers and cruisers have cruise missiles. In this scenario, we would use them, especially if we thought we needed to overwhelm the Chinese defenses to hit the target(s). Given it's the 7th fleet, with a lot of destroyers, there would be quite a lot of cruise missiles. In addition, I have not looked, but it may be that we now have our newer missiles on our destroyers/cruisers. I know that DCS does not have subs, but it sure would be nice if it did because that would certainly be a game changer (yes, pun intended). I really need to make time for this game and buy a new flight control system. I can certainly afford it, and I'm a good pilot. Keep up the great work guys. Love all your videos (and I'm a little jealous of the fun you have - both playing them and creating them).

[@chefboyartty]

your commentary is what makes these videos amazing and fun to watch

[@ignisflamme1498]

I mean there is a pretty clear issue with the HHQ-9 Targeting the cruise missiles. They are all targeting one missile and all the destroyers are launching 100s of missiles targeting one cruise missile. The moment the target is destroyed all the airborne HHQ-9s just self destruct (as you can see on the map for a split second)

[@brycewilson5594]

Those cruise missiles zipping by is really cool!

[@NeilWaybright]

The airwing usually disembarks from the carrier when it comes into port (so they can do training flights independently of the ship), so the airwings could have been in play. The Aegis boats could have brought gas turbine generators online and the radars too so all of them should have been fighting. They are usually left off in port so people can do maintenance but could be brought up quickly (easily within ten minutes). You act like the mach 4 missiles would have been a hard SM-2/6 target, but they can his mach 12 IRBMs, so the YJ's wouldn't be that hard.

[@theleadersedgebyseastbi4492]

Thank you Grim Reapers for the interesting content and scenarios. Has your channel ever done a simulation of a clash where China carries out a pre-emptive strike on the US bases in the Philippines? It would be fascinating to see how the country would fare in a scenario like that. And added to the mix is a QRF from Japan to augment the less sophisticated air force jets in the existing inventory. It's also plausible that the hypersonic missiles would be employed to take out the runways and other early warning facilities. The scenarios you post are always interesting. More power to your channel.

[@kaseycornette9637]

Grim, China has two S-400 batteries. One is deployed in Bejing and the other is deployed in Tibet with the one in Tibet likely only partially operational due to Russia not fulfilling their contract following the invasion of Ukraine. Most of the SAM systems along the Chinese coast are HQ-9A/B & HQ-12 with the occasional HQ-16 or mobile SHORAD regiments like the HQ-64 which generally sit around airfields. I've been mapping Chinese SAMs & EW radars with open-source satellite imagery.

[@LostBeagle]

Shanghai harbor has hundreds, if not thousands of cargo ships parked offshore. Nobody knows which one's, if any, are armed. Imagine what would happen if 10 percent of them had antiaircraft weapons on board

[@goidogoi]

In real life though, as seen time and time again and again, a Cbinese war ship will dog and shadow any US carrier fleet whenever it is in the western pacific. Not to mention they have that fishing trawler fleet acting as their eyes. The Chinese will definitely know if the US is launching a surprise attack on them.

[@fqeagles21]

The opposite too

[@lolasdm6959]

This is way to close for a surprise attack.

[@hughmungus2760]

@@lolasdm6959 Yes, at under 500miles thats suicidally close for a US carrier group to be to the chinese mainland. Land based antiship missiles will come into play at this range

[@lolasdm6959]

@@hughmungus2760 Not even just anti ship missiles, the massive amount of old jets converted into drones woud also play into the scernario.

[@strambino1]

Awesome sim CAP!!!! Love the naval sims!! Try some tomahawks too, it would be fun to see them integrated!

[@CombatWombat7.62mm]

Can you do the F35s fly in stealthily and drop bombs on the carrier?

[@grimreapers]

Problem is ship radar spot stealth at about 20-30 miles.

[@CombatWombat7.62mm]

@@grimreapers what about 6 or 8 bugs with HARMS nap of the earth overwhelm the S400 with another 4 to 6 F35s also attacking the S400. 4 to 6 F35s go after the AWACS the rest of the F35s go for the Fighters and the rest of the bugs are split between the Carrier and the Frigates

[@CombatWombat7.62mm]

@@grimreapers all TOT already airborne and refueled Alpha strike

[@OG_Mac79]

One of the last drills I participated in while in the Navy was a simulated attack on mainland China, our simulations had 12 stealth aircraft as hunter killers completely stealthed timed to arrive as 2 SSGN would pop up and fire antiship missiles from the North and South, hitting all the ships outside the harbor with co-ordinated missile and torp attacks with the main "bomber" fleet of aircraft coming in after the fleet of Chinese defenders were sinking to launch the attack on the harbor just after. We had simulated 10 b52Hs launching from Japan and using 20 advanced cruise missiles back then of about 300km, today iirc we have some capable of 1000km range. I think the JASSM-ER has 1000km range. Its warhead is almost 1000lbs. The XR is doing trials now I think, and has 1800-2000km range. The biggest thing about DCS is it assumes that everything is 100% combat ready, China and Russia were not well known for having the best maintenance history. No one else flies as much as our military so we have far more experience so expert vs expert would not be realistic. Without DCS having subs all naval battles are gimped since most of our modern naval doctrine includes attack subs and SSGN subs to saturate a target and take out the defenders from within their home base. That means each SSGN could launch 150 Tomahawks and a fair number of mark 48 advanced torpedoes. Then each of the Navy ships would use their missiles too...

[@fluffskunk]

> Looks directly at wingtip missiles "Yeah, they're all Winchester."

[@_mysilentblue2227]

I love these things, thanks for the hard work. Side note as a Navy guy, my boring example: One Virginia class sub launches 6 Tomahawks, 4 Harpoons and then disappears back into the stealth of the ocean. The end.

[@hughmungus2760]

10 missiles probably won't do alot, they'd be pretty easy to stop for such a heavy defense.

[@_mysilentblue2227]

@@hughmungus2760 It's all about the surprise. Without an air or surface contact they'll be questioning what they are seeing. By the time they do see it, analyze and approve to fire it's to late. Keep in mind all of these battles are brute force, wars is eminent posture, full radar and everyone at their battle station. I'm suggesting the black stealth of night, unexpecting, watch standers to afraid to wake up the fire control officer.

[@hughmungus2760]

@@_mysilentblue2227 In this scenario china is already at war with the US and everyone would be on high alert. any group of unidentified signatures approaching would be considered hostile

[@itsjustjuan8239]

Thank you cap I remember asking for this on that video!

[@grimreapers]

thx Juan

[@TK199999]

It should be noted the US is aware of fuel issue and the F-35A and C will receive a new engine as part of the Block IV upgrade that will increase range by 20% and thrust by 15%. The next gen adaptive cycle engines will go to USAF NGAD and the USN F/A-XX. Which should see increases approaching 50% range and 25% thrust, when compared to the F-22 and F-35. There is also a plan to create a new type of larger and stealthier drop tank for 5th and 6th gen fighters.

[@nguyenhoangtrieu1256]

Very nice video !!

[@mateen6849]

thank you, this is the most realistic battle yet and probably the only unbiased one I have seen lol. The pl-15 performance here is as accurate as it should be. It has a longer range than the aim-120D but is not as maneuverable as the aim-120D, which is what was depicted in the battle. As for the fight overall, I feel like the stealth advantage of the f-35s was misused. The f-35s should have been in stealth mode with a couple of murder loadout f-18s, that is exactly how they are planned to be used. the superior radar of the f-35 and datalink capability, will make a really deadly combination. Thank you again and appreciate the video as always.

[@Stinger522]

Not having far to go favored the defense greatly. The JASSM/LRASM do have stealth capabilities and would've been perfect for a mission like this. Once you guys get the JASSM/LRASM up and running, you should do this scenario again with USAF bombers kicking things off from afar and then have the Navy follow up.

[@hallo84]

Shanghai does not have a military airfield but the near by Jiaxing city about 100km away does have a airbase with flankers.

[@bheppes]

That was very interesting and totally entertaining! Loved it. Thanks.

[@airprok8328]

Nice! Very well done! Love me some super hornets kinda realistic! You should have the G hornets too though. I guess that would crash your server?

[@rubiconnn]

The best part of these videos is your excitement lol

[@Jeffrey1978]

In real life the Navy would have FA-18’s outfitted with refueling pods refueling aircraft as necessary. The first target would have been that S-400 which would have been dealt with by using F-35’s backed up by Growlers conducting EW. Another thing missing from DCS is MALD Decoys which aircraft can launch to completely confuse the adversary causing them to expend their weapons attacking decoys that look like legitimate missiles.

[@carlosgarcia9497]

The banter in this one was everything.

[@charlesbuck1708]

Just had a though, I am calling "buddy stealth" The idea is that you take a stealth aircraft like the f-22 and pair it up with something like an f-16. You put the f-16 behind the f-22 in-between it and a radar looking for the f-16. The stealth of the f-22 hides it from the radar and the f-16 is behind it, so the radar cant see past the raptor and the f-16 goes unseen.

[@phenri4809]

Might work IF you knew exactly where any and every radar was

[@lolasdm6959]

No if you do that the enemy will just see the F-22, stealth does not mean zero radar return. Plus there are several radars from nearly every direction so you get busted very fast.

[@lolasdm6959]

@lxRaptorxl You can, you only need to find and then get close to it. Stealth fighters will have radar returns, espeacially on long wave radars.

[@Echowhiskeyone]

I agree with Simba, a Nimitz can throw aircraft into the air pretty quick. If they are prepped for an Alpha Strike, the carrier is emptied fast. Early October 200, it was mind boggling to see three carrier launching on Afghanistan.

[@mattschm5486]

Nice fireworks 💥 will probably go to Shanghai soonish

[@usa_infidel413]

You guy's come up with awesome ideas

[@douglasiles2024]

CVN-71 is the USS Theodore Roosevelt, 4th in the Nimitz-class of US carriers.

[@usmc1979034]

I understand the limitations of the sim but in real life the US Navy would commit at least two carrier groups with destroyers and probably four submarines. The submarine’s would probably target the screening destroyers with harpoons and torpedoes while the cruisers and destroyers would target the sams and airfields with Tomahwks. That would allow the Hornets to target the carrier along with the port facilities to essentially deny the PLAN a base of operations to continue operations against Taiwan and the Seventh Fleet.

[@alejandrogrossi9424]

Hi cap. From Wiki. in 2015 the US Navy and USAF have in antiship role the AGM-158C LRASM. 2018 integrated on Super Hornet and B-1B. It is estimated that the LRASM has a range of 300 nmi (560 km; 350 mi). That was base on AGM-158 JASSM (cruise missile) with range JASSM: 370 km (230 mi) and JASSM-ER: > 925 km (575 mi) .

[@billpeterson178]

Telling squadrons of pilots that you're gonna run out of gas on a mission is a great way to start a mutiny. 🤣

[@clivereid]

Really enjoying the War Games series but I was almost shouting at my screen when I realised how you were using the F35s in this battle. The F35 was borne of the Joint Strike Fighter program...and the clue's in the name. It'd be interesting to see if F35s in a stealth config would be able to get close enough to hit the Chinese carrier, as I think that's closer to how they'd be used IRL. The Super Bugs could then be used tin "Murder" config to keep the Chinese fighters busy.

[@wolf06291980]

I feel the CSG was underutilized here. The Tico could have a ton (up to 122 with the exclusion of everything else) BGM-109 tomahawks. That's over 200 cruise missiles from the cruisers alone. There are usually a couple of DDG Burkes in there as well bringing the max total of tomahawks over 400. If you target the airfield and the S400 with the hawks and move the CSG to 200nmi off shore you will eliminate the fuel issue. you will also completely exhaust the anti air capability of the Chinese. With the only air threat being the Chinese airframes that were actually able to launch, the f-35s in stealth config could mop up or at least draw them into SM-2 range. The Super Hornets would have the ability to take off and loiter since they only have 30ish miles to fly before deployment. Once the 109s were in flight the E2 could ingress a bit under cover of the 35s to get a better picture of the action. I love these wargames and I like big booms. I'm an American but if we lose fair and square on here then so be it. I think this was less of a chess match and more of a bum rush. The US left a ton of capability on the table here. Keep up the good work Cap and crew!

[@MaxIsStrange1]

I think it would be great if you could add JASSM-ER as you mentioned in the video, even if it would require going off of data from Wikipedia (and to answer your question, Cap - according to Wiki, both JASSM and LRASM are stealthy). Modding it in would also pave the way towards adding the LRASM since it is an anti-ship variant of JASSM-ER. And to be obnoxious a bit - going back to a comment I posted a while ago, I think you really could get some nice content out of modding in some improved versions of NATO SAMs that are in game (i.e. Patriot and/or NASAMS) and then doing, let’s say, another season of the ‘Things vs Super IADS’ series 🤔

[@9999plato]

I'm certain that the Nimitz can travel at 40-50 knots when they want to. I have not seen it but shipmates who served in the defunct USS Long Beach (supposedly did over 50 knots on their reactors) say that the Nimitz can keep pace with them and has a rooster tail like a speed boat. Those nuclear reactors are amazingly powerful and their true speeds have never been published. I was on the FFG46 and it met its published speed at 32 knots but its capable of more if the safeties are pulled on the turbines. Max speed is based on safe prolonged travel, there are always emergency controls in several locations that pull out all the stops. I know the ones in engineering enabled more speed. I studied the rate training manuals for GSE and GSM in an effort to cross over to engineering but this was not permitted. I was allowed to stand watch in engineering for the tail end of our deployment. I also studied Torpedo Mate and Gunners Mate manuals but the Navy said that Sonar Techs were in demand. This was just as they cut the number of Sonar Techs by 1/3 when the Soviets went broke and collapsed and a peace dividend was demanded by the Politicians. I was happy to be discharged at that point but do miss the good parts badly now as I downplay the bullshit that was so common. A smoke and coffee on the weather decks, shooting the shit with crewmates as the dolphins kept pace.Just as it was possible to land and fly Hercules and U2s on ships like the Forrestal the true capabilities of the US have never been published for OPSEC reasons.

[@Madeyes6]

Seems Cap has made a new T-shirt slogan. “Looks like it’s lightly out doing the doo darrs”

[@tracytoh282]

It will be interesting to see usa fleets evaporates in the pacific

[@TP-ie3hj]

As per my norm I come for the cinematic, its awesome, I stay for the commentary "his once beautiful face, smash" I dont care for the tactical views much ... nor would I ever refer to it as a "simulation" as its simulates real life and its variables at about 3% of reality. that said a super awesome game with a great video, a lot of work to set up thanks!

[@neil168]

I'd like to see a wave of stealth F-35's go in as the spearhead of the attack.

[@tom23rd]

Ok, time to become a Patreon. You guys fucking rock 🔥🔥

[@grimreapers]

Welcome to the GR family!

[@gketchup777]

Full stealth lightnings + mixed loadout bogs with 2 aim120Ds and only 4 cruisers + 1 fuel would probably do a lot better. They didn't need that many cruise missiles and they needed a lot more survivability. They should also have a bit more scattered release checkpoints.

[@dimonik12]

Even the fattest Septics cannot keep up with the rapid fire dishes being served at this all you can eat Chinese buffet.

[@Pixxelshim]

The Grim Repers' version of "topless" pics is flying in formation sans canopies.

[@davidware8496]

It would be really cool if dcs would get maps for the whole world

[@treycotter]

I’d much rather have the f35s in stealth, wish I had known there was a poll

[@Operator8282]

I wonder how mang SSGNs would have been on a mission like that? That's a LOT of antiship missiles in the mix, wholly unaccounted for. Also a couple B-52s worth of tomahawks set up for antiship. That's even more missiles to overwhelm them...

[@paulallen8597]

Wow, I'm slow today as I just had another observation. The B-1B and the B-52 can both carry multiple cruise missiles. So, we could actually launch so many missiles from beyond the range of China that there's no way they could defend against it. With the 7th fleet and our bombers from Guam (note that we do have them there) as well as other close/far bases, China would lose. I'm not sure if DCS could handle all that though. That said, I still enjoyed the video and the concept. Good job of the improved missile modeling.

[@scotthulsey8763]

One problem is it's not likely that the F-18s would have been sent out without a couple long range amram and a couple sidewinder. even f it limited antiship missles.

[@VyarkX]

Hey! Great video, but you appear to have made a typo in the title

[@alanholck7995]

You could have KC-135s from Kadena outside SAM range to refuel the superbugs & battle penguins.

[@ray32245mv]

Excellent work gang, ur really getting good at this! Also what F35 is this and how do I get me hands on it?

[@Anarchy_420]

Please it'd be cool af if You did first half stealth configuration then second half Murdered out/or vise versa, even that would make more sense then just sending them ALL out like that! Lol enough with ALL Murder Loadouts! Completely negates the concept of Stealth! Please take the half and half into consideration as this would make everyone happy😁🙏

[@Anarchy_420]

12:54 not if U.S. had true stealth!😆👍

[@Anarchy_420]

14:08 Agreed!😂👍

[@Anarchy_420]

42:30 Lmfao The F-35's lost bc they're supposed to be freakin Stealth!!! Again PLEASE have at least Half in Stealth Configuration! Would have been MUCH better on fuel as well!👍

[@Anarchy_420]

43:55 I'd take the first half of The Murder Hornet's and give them Two Air-Air missiles taking away some* air-ship however at least the first half of them will be able to defend themselves, it's not that big of an air-ship missile loss, and it'd be worth it! Plus you have the entire second half with ALL air-ship missiles! I believe that'd make a huge difference😅👍

[@possumfoot1985]

Tomahawk a5 and b2 with jassm-er. Steath f35 for air superiority and growlers supporting the f/a 18s. You would need to add a couple destroys off either flank to simulate sub launch tomahawks as well..

[@gunh4129]

Well, according to what I read from China military forum, Type 03 will be equipped not only with J-15, but also J-35; or the Navy version of J-31. And because this is China land, the variation of Chinese PLAAF should be more diverse. As they have a combination of J-10 series (A,B, C), J-20, J-16, J-11B, etc. They can also have H-6K / H-6H to bring their own anti ship missile from the sky, while PLANAF can bring JH-7A also to aim for the ships. For J-20, usually they fly in tandem with J-16. Also, PLAN has only 6 Type 052C Destroyer in their inventory. If this is Chinese CV003, then it will be guarded with Type 055, Type 052D, in tandem with Type 054A for long, medium, short air defense layer for their Aircraft carrier.

[@jampie2789]

Its funny to see that when the Americans shoot, the defense systems of the enemy shoot all of their defense missiles onto the first missiles of the Americans. So very inefficient and unrealistic. But when the enemies attack the Amercians, the American defense systems doesnt have these problems. Then it is one shot one kill. Like the Americans arent allowed to lose. Except for this, love your videos man, I know it isnt you fould. Keep up the good work!!

[@joek7080]

America missile defense systems are tried and tested man. We know how well they perform IRL.

[@Mystical922]

That’s what the US tests for efficiency of its defense systems their is a reason US beat everyone out when Turkey tested Long range SAM’s in the end we didn’t trust them. Their is 30 year deficit in datalink and radar the Russians and Chinese have so in the end these scenarios are best case scenarios for China or Russia

[@92HazelMocha]

It's a problem with the core game; ED hasn't put a lot of effort into coding the elements that you don't pay for. If they weren't selling the US Supercarrier module, the US boats would be just as bad.

[@jampie2789]

@@92HazelMocha thanks that explains it al!!

[@danmorgan1729]

I love your wargames, this used to take a few hundred people with calculators several weeks to simulate

[@rickrude978]

This is a great simulation as it brings up problems. With the thought that we had so many hits on the PLAN carrier, we most likely could carry fewer anti-ship missiles on the Super Hornets and achieve a HV kill. And I agree, the F-35B's of a LHA / LHD are really not a long range strike deal. We need F-35C's off the carrier, in stealth configuration. And F-18 with more bags and less missiles. They also most likely to be configured to at least be able to protect themselves in AAW.

[@stug77]

Can you post the image you found of the AGM-86 on a bog?

[@SydWaters1776]

Been subbed and watching videos for some time now and this is another fun video to watch. I have a question.. Is Cap saying "valued viewers" or maybe "Valley viewers" or maybe "valid viewers".. I hope one of these is correct. It drives me nuts never really knowing. Please help. 🤣

[@NightHeronProduction]

Could you guys do something like a Malta Class Carrier (the never built UK equivalent of the Midway Class) with a squadron of Buccaneers and Phantoms in a Falklands 1982 war scenario? (maybe 2x of them, 4x were planned and by 82 3x would likely still be in service) Maybe do an alternate first strike attack on the port Stanley runway, as with these carriers around with Buccaneers, it would likely mean that the Vulcans would either not considered or be simply put on standby. Because its a big what if, I guess the closet thing you could model in terms of carrier capability would be a Midway class with modded F18.

[@seagie382]

Don't forget the F35 can jettison its pylons and become stealthier/return to stealth config!

[@russmullins1063]

Nimitz class can launch a lot quicker then u can imagine. I work the catapults on 3 of them. You would be surprised how quick they launch

[@jimrussell4062]

End run by F-35s to the south/north to flank and kill enemy AWACS in a pincer move behind the enemy defenses. Stealth loadout also means low drag and you can use the F-35 to it's full capabilities (stealth and range) Once the AWACS is down, as xenaguy said you have a full strike package go in on cue and they'd get about in firing range before the enemy defenses have time to react.

[@itsrocketscience9795]

hey cap , i find that 2nd scenario very unrealistic tbh All the ships firing their first slavo , all against that first incoming missiles doesnt sound realistic CEC capability of em might not be as good as the aegis but still this seem super far off

[@jackcat3745]

The USA is a big mouth, in Vietnam war, the USA faced an army without no an air force, the USA lost 58,000 soldiers, and another 300,000 American soldiers wounded.

[@thomask5038]

Either run the F35 escort in MO with the superbugs entering AWACS range at the same time (rather than letting Red player get an early warning to the "on-coming waves"). OR, send some (or all) F35s forward in stealth with the objective of targeting AWACS or to be closer in range to intercept J16s (negating the J16s radar advantage seen in this sim). OR, push Blue AWACS forward as the "Blue front line" moves forward, as it were, allowing F35 escort to maintain radar/range parity with J16s. (I realize that F35s probably couldn't run stealth at that range w/o the additional fuel pod--though couldn't it be dumped before reaching theoretical Red radar range?) Additionally, Red would almost assuredly be shadowing the Blue fleet with either some surface fleet contingent and/or submerged vessel(s), giving Red an even earlier warning. So, kinda making the point I just made moot. But whatever.

[@seanmorrissey9326]

This is a good time to mention if anyone in the USMC is experiencing mental health problems feel free to call the VA and they will assist you.

[@loduke3905]

Love the vid boys. Questions: Wouldn’t America send in strategic stealth bombers and 52’s? 🤔 I mean we know they’ll pick us up so why wouldn’t we send out a ridiculous amount of cruise missiles say via b52’s? Then… send out our stealth fighters (some stealth, some loaded out) I’d assume some 22’s to protect and our strategic stealth bombers who would clean up their airfields and defense systems prior to coming in hot or maybe after idk? Obviously I get the 35’s, 18’s, etc BUT! I’d think we’d also utilize ALL THE THINGS, B-1’s B-2’s hell I believe there are at least 4 b2’s currently in Australia … for THIS VERY REASON. Wouldn’t they be called up for a mainland strike? I absolutely think we’d be using 52’s to send down missiles and more than likely HYPERSONIC’S down China’s throat prior to our aircrafts coming in.. say to soften up their possible defenses and potential retaliation. I’m assuming here but I’d think IF we’ve been attacked, WE WILL WANT TO END IT before it spirals and a HEAVY HEAVY response would BE ALMOST MANDATORY. If not, it’s safe to assume that IF America did NOT come correct and shut that ish down, it’d send a pretty weak message to ALL of those who wish to do harm to the U.S. and they might just think they can escalate and we wouldn’t stomp them, out in fear of further escalation. I’d think if we’re gonna hit China, we’ll be doing it from different bases, on/with everything we’ve got and at every possible angle we can. I think we’d obviously take out their 40 plus military bases in one big strike, then hit their navy… possibly at the same time. I think if we hit China it would be an OVERWHELMING ATTACK not limited to “tit for tat”. I don’t think we’d use any kind of nuclear weapons tactical or otherwise nor would we have to. It’d probably be a heavily planned and coordinated strike coming from multiple directions, platforms, utilizing different weapons, system’s and being multifaceted. It’d be rather a real NAsTY response, one that would drop mouths 😮 and END GAMES. I’d love to see this added on w stealth bombers, b52’s sending some nasty ordinance, coming from different areas w some suggested “nastiness” 💪🏻

[@Duvstep910]

I call the supehornet the Rhino cause it has the little bubble on top of its nose which is kinda like a rhino horn