Is coding really dead? 6 trends that look bad

[@sharkinahat]

Programming isn't about writing code, it's about creating a solution to a problem you don't understand by dividing into smaller problems that someone else already had on stackoverflow and copy-pasting the solution.

[@MZmakesgames]

Coding sure isn't dead for a talented programmer like this guy

[@shreksthongg]

I get that this is a meme, but after finally getting a job as a developer, I actually don't use stack overflow that much at all, unless I am learning a new technology. The documentation of whatever technology I am using is usually infinitely more helpful in my experience. (mainly because stack overflow posts are too specific or get outdated)

[@Six5]

@@shreksthongg oh man I can't wait until I'm also able to say I've landed a tech job, currently I'm in tutorial hell. How did you escape?

[@tedchupig]

No, the JavaScript doc is not that helpful

[@soy_boy69]

@@Six5 we are all in toturiap hell

[@akatsukilevi]

To 100% effectively make developers obsolete, we need our managers to 100% accurately describe what they want We're safe for a long time

[@animeforever8508]

Hahahaha so true😂😂😂😂

[@JohnnyWednesday]

Managers jobs will be automated long before our jobs are - we'll make sure of it ;)

[@nolanrudolph5463]

When I was using SquareSpace and Wix, I thought for a second that the front end development occupation is done for. Then I realized that customer requests range far outside what those prebuilt sites offer. The fact that not even front end development is taking a hit means coding will be around for a very long time.

[@jamess.2491]

Yeah that's why we made it a requirement for product managers at our company to have some form of coding experience, it makes the development process like 10x faster.

[@akatsukilevi]

@@jamess.2491 WHERE DO I SIGN TO JOIN????

[@Voltiq]

As long as we have people thinking developers are magicians, coding won't die.

[@elwan_]

That reminds me of the time where I told someone I was programming a videogame and he said: "Oh, the thing [programming] where you enter 1s and 0s!" XD

[@TheNewton]

Ftfy: developers are wizards. Magicians are charlatans.

[@rotr8196]

my parents and few of my friends still think that we can literally build anything beyond human imagination just because we can code

[@charlesm.2604]

@@rotr8196 One time I bumped into an old classmate, we caught up on life and exchanged numbers. The literal next day I wake up reading a text from the guy pitching me about a "lottery winning AI" project...

[@sepg5084]

Coding can die, but software engineering will continue to exists as long as software needs to be designed and made.

[@itsbrittanybitch2658]

Every attempt to make programmers obsolete has just given us an extra skill to add to our resume lmao

[@krunkle5136]

@@robertmusil1107 hopefully you're not celebrating that. There's a lot of things that are now automated which as a result there's less control or bargaining with a human that can share in your struggle, and the machines do mess up plenty.

[@krunkle5136]

@@robertmusil1107 I sense a bit of cynicism about humanity, and menial work also, that people can't be virtuous and that it's desireable to minimize work as much as possible (as if having the freedom to be creative and not work for other people 16 hours a day, the creative juices and fun would just flow forever). Also there's very few places you're waiting for four hours, and it's worth it to talk to a human being that isn't programmed to say empty platitudes, and I think people inherently want to sometimes be relied on for things in a larger community, even though labor can sometimes be boring.

[@krunkle5136]

@@robertmusil1107 Automated testing is fine, and some automation in general. I think the negative effects of overt automation are insidious and scope far reaching, not 5%. There's different amounts of corruption depending on the culture. Plenty of cultures in Europe and Japan, even before all the apps and increased automation, valued integrity on an individual level, and corruption was a thing you read about in the news. It's not the norm and hasn't been to bribe people for everything, and the existence of cultures where bribing isn't (and wasn't) a thing for me is proof of the possibilities of humans to be better even outside of tech.

[@zikomo8913]

@@robertmusil1107 There's still lot of, and I mean a lot of bribing going in countries like India. I'm sick of it, and I didn't even have do get much done, I can't imagine trying to open a business. No wonder tons of people want out of here. You are 100 % correct.

[@K2ELP]

@@robertmusil1107 technological progress is a good thing, but I wouldn't celebrate regular people losing their jobs and becoming impoverished, since our current society isn't built on caring for other people, this is the reality.

[@horridohobbies]

0:32 #1: Stalled Tech 1:30 #2: Economic Disaster 2:46 #3: Crypto Winter 3:33 #4: Nocode & Lowcode 4:46 #5: Big Tech Consolidation 5:48 #6: The Cloud 6:23 Rays of Hope

[@dstn3422]

A quote from quora: "There are two schools of thought. Those with a background in business see developers as commodities and fully believe that programmers will program themselves out of a job field. The idea is that in some distant future, jobs like project manager, product manager, and marketing manager will still be critical but programmers themselves will be extinct as a result of the tools they created. The other school of thought is hard to understand because the programmers are laughing so hard they can’t talk."

[@Spinikar]

I almost fell off my chair laughing at this one.

[@sepg5084]

Coding can die, but software engineering will continue to exist as long as software needs to be designed, made, and maintained.

[@balu.92]

This went over my head. Could you please elaborate what you are actually meaning by this? 😊

[@aryanarora268]

@@balu.92 Fields of management and marketing can be automated far more easily and accurately through programming, as compared to technical problem solving skills that CS engineers provide.

[@mkdxt]

That's a gem right there 🤣

[@systematicpsychologic7321]

I remember fully expecting the next generation to be highly computer-literate and natural programmers since they grew up with technology. Then I watched them type in the office jobs they got in their 20s. It hit me that they've been using mobile devices forever and most of them never had a laptop, much less a desktop PC, and talking to them about technology was like talking to my parents. Go figure.

[@EinChris75]

Listening to music does not make you a great composer, watching movies does not make you a great actor, watching sports does not make you a good sportsman. Why on Earth would using computers make a good software developer. And yes, coding might be dead. As dead as writing assembly language or even machine code (does anyone still know the difference?) But the general problem of understanding a real world problem and using problems to solve/automate them, will last for several decades to come.

[@AaronTMac]

So true

[@vectoralphaSec]

What office jobs do people in their 20's get??

[@casper64]

@@vectoralphaSec customer service, writing daily reports about work etc.

[@xijinvegg]

As a gen z twat, can agree. Some of the people in high school didn’t know basic keyboard shortcuts or how to use the file system on windows. Go figure.

[@MentalOutlaw]

Thanks for the shout out 👍

[@billycrooks8401]

My favourite schitzo! 👍

[@alexanded2383]

Based shout out

[@hallunolla]

Coding using an AI without understanding code is like using google translate to translate your native tongue to some language you don't speak. You won't know if or where the AI made a mistake. You'll still need a programmer to fix any mistake the AI might've caused.

[@krkr8863]

exactly

[@admiralspyro9722]

Any coder familiar with machine learning will know that AI coding will not replace jobs in any meaningful way. It s just another tool.

[@krkr8863]

@@admiralspyro9722 why you say that?

[@AoiZassoOFCL]

@@krkr8863 Some jobs you can formally prove to be impossible for an AI to solve. Not in the "the technology isn't there" way but the "you will create a paradox and collapse time" way. To understand this, picture a program that will take some program in as input, halt if the input loops forever and loop forever if the program halts. Now feed this program into itself. If you say the program will halt, it will loop forever, but if it loops forever it will halt, but if it halts it'll loop forever...you get the point.

[@vladrileynavilys]

Exactly, same goes with a bunch of other jobs, like in translation. We're closer to have AI being able to translate and localize more or less properly, but still far from being able to leave human translators and proofreading etc. out of the equation.

[@bryanlee5522]

Honestly it seems like things are becoming more complex with every simplification

[@GalaxyCat001]

Well yes, because the smarts have to be somewhere

[@xensakura595]

Induced demand is what it’s called

[@diegovillafane6313]

that's abstraction

[@vornamenachname906]

Debugging and dependencies became much, much, much easier the past 20 years.

[@philippefutureboy7348]

@@diegovillafane6313’s got it. Abstractions reduce the amount of toil to be done at the price of making everything more complex and brittle

[@jagi7976]

I just recently joined my first real big boy tech job. I was really surprised to see that the user stories aren’t well-defined, the management is unfocused, our systems are down like every other day, the codebase is hilariously disorganized, etc. My job security ain’t going nowhere any time soon lol

[@Josh-dj8jy]

Same here it’s a mess for buisnesses😂 management will be out the door long before the techs that run the business

[@caiozedtv9535]

just described my current job 😂

[@vaxrvaxr]

Surprise, it's like that everywhere and it has more to do with pragmatism than incompetence.

[@alexfoxleigh9443]

Precisely. Even the solid companies with great processes often don't have well defined requirements for everything. Even more of an issue is that building an app is almost a living process. The app may start one way but during the development process, something changes and by the end, you are building something similar to what was requested but actually pretty different. I think that navigating that mealstrom of requests for change means we've a long wait before a lot of coding jobs are obsolete.

[@darknogo1]

Welcome abroad.

[@DottoXD]

no, it’s not.

[@samuelkuchta2836]

Copium

[@thatonegoblin7051]

VS Copium

[@kittenwizard4703]

Cope, your career is over bozo

[@testroyer]

and it won’t be for a long time

[@cesarbrown370]

you give us the most important thing, hope.

[@abrh2793]

As long as data exists, there'll be always programming

[@casenc]

What changes is who (or what) does it

[@abrh2793]

@@casenc exactly, its just a matter on "what" needs to be done with all those data

[@sifagayev7793]

@@casenc emphasis on the “what”,

[@ilearncode7365]

A.I is a meme. There is no A.I, not even dumb A.I. There is no software that can do things that even a 45 IQ downie can. "Stable Diffusion" is not "A.I". IT is just software like any other that has existed before. You cant tell it to start a small online business and make 7k in profit. You cant tell it to put a tennis ball in the garbage, or to login to your email, unless you explicitly tell it how to do that. It is worthless as "A.I". Calling these things "A.I" is a cope like calling electric skateboards "hover boards". A.I is the "flying car" of today. They couldnt even make a flying car despite it being a million times more feasible than creating "A.I".

[@ammadkhalid1857]

Feed this data to ai

[@MrFearDubh]

In the 1980s there were many articles stating that computers were getting so sophisticated that computers would soon be writing their own programs or non-coders would be able to create all the programs needed via user interfaces that allowed them to specify the broad tasks they wanted and the code would be filled in behind the scenes again negating the need for coders. In the 1990s similar articles came out. This type of thing was also brought up in the 2000s and 2010s. Now we are in the 2020s and we are still hearing this. Forgive me if I remain skeptical.

[@tecfan-ix2tj]

you are based

[@Flackon]

There have been countless programs since the 80s that helped non-programmers specify their tasks, though. They're not self-coding apps, but you don't need a self-coding app to fix a photo or edit video or type a novel

[@MrFearDubh]

@@Flackon I get what you're saying: that since the 80s there have been apps that helped non-programmers with specific tasks. And that's great. I've used many myself. My point is that since the 80s we've been told that programmers would soon be obsolete because computers or apps would replace us. I've been working as a programmer since that time and I am getting close to retirement without ever getting replaced by those things. So I remain skeptical that they are right around the corner when we've been told that for nearly 40 years.

[@krunkle5136]

I'd think though the CPU power just wasn't there. With the noticeable improvements in AI, which as become almost capable of replacing humans to a degree, I don't think it'll be forever impossible for a computer to one day be able to dredge up documentation and create entire operating systems and frameworks by itself.

[@raccoonious4038]

While this is a good point, just because it hasn't happened yet doesn't mean it will not happen. Housing never went bust - who doesn't pay their mortgages? We said before 2008. We'll always need humans for that, before the technological revolution that replaced hundreds of thousands of jobs. While I do agree that you'll still need programmers to use those tools to code, I don't necessarily agree this day won't come. It will come just probably not in immediate future. Who knows what we have in store 10/20 years from now though? P.s. if you're going to bootcamp to learn HTML and CSS to call yourself front-end developer, ya fucked

[@stephene2780]

I've said for years that being in IT is like being a digital janitor. Unless you're doing something novel, you're cleaning up other people's data messes

[@admiralspyro9722]

You can put every job that way. A lawyer is just a linguistic janitor cleaning up other peoples writing messes. A doctor is just a health janitor cleaning up other peoples health messes. Etc ...

[@stephene2780]

@@admiralspyro9722 that's fair, I think one difference is that you can do really well on your first tech job with a high school education. The theory is really cool and helpful if you're doing novel stuff, but 90% percent of jobs don't want their programmers being scientists, they want their widget in production ASAP. It's like hiring a chemist to use household cleaners

[@MrRenanHappy]

@@stephene2780 that's a retarded point. Most jobs are not scientists, they're applying established tech.

[@chuggernaut69]

It’s not janitor, it’s data hygiene technician.

[@breakdancerQ]

I'll take it over being a regular janitor

[@lorenzo6341]

The day programming dies every other job will already be dead.

[@jaromor8808]

manual labor will go last

[@internallyinteral]

@@jaromor8808 manual labor is already going.

[@hernanescudero6620]

@@internallyinteral ???????

[@cesarbrown370]

@@hernanescudero6620 going to dead

[@lifeisgameplayit]

We write a program when putting a dish into a microwave . Programming will never go away . I feel so bad when I make x3 - 5 times more than everybody else around .

[@johanlorentzon4963]

I don't develop much at my developer job. 80% is short term maintenance of decrepit systems that were poorly designed 15 years ago and have grown "too large to rewrite" (their phrasing, not mine)

[@dan6erbond]

Then your job is a dead end, not the industry as a whole. 🤦🏽‍♂️

[@dhess34]

Time to break those suckers down into loosely-coupled functions, bit by bit!

[@johanlorentzon4963]

@@dan6erbond dead end? With this poorly written codebase, I'll be backed up with maintenance for decades!

[@ddk9467]

same as mine

[@oldm9228]

The truth. If you really want a job as a "developer", don't learn to write good code, learn to read bad code that barely works. I put developer in quotes because "maintainer" is more accurate for many, many of the jobs out there.

[@BenRacicot]

I had a full-cycle conversation at work once while building a landing page. The project manager came over to discuss changes and asked how long it would take. I explained an extra 5 days after it’s designed. He snapped back with “aren’t there any tools to like not have to code it?” I asked him, if one exists are you going to build the website? He said “no way, a designer or someone would” My designer leaned over and said “I want no part of any website builder stuff,sorry”. And that was the end of that.

[@Tridentus]

I don't understand how people can be this stupid about anything. It's like, you don't understand anything about what it takes, yet you're trying to lecture the person who does on the tools that should exist and how long it should take.

[@BenRacicot]

@@Tridentus So true, imagine how many horrible prototypes will die because they are built on no-code platforms? I bet, in the future, we'll be able to add this to the list of why startups fail!

[@scottydog9997]

Had a similar experience with someone looking at flutter flow, thinking that interface builders were somewhat new. Had to point them in the direction of winforms. I hate most interface builders with a passion.

[@sumayyahadetunmbi4347]

hmmm..

[@midoevil7]

@@Tridentus It is because he is the one "reponsible" for something that he don't understand, That's the point of having a tech-manager / tech-lead to do the translation

[@mitarravilic2025]

The problem with no-code is just a more extreme example of cloud vendor-locking. You save so much at the starting point, but the more you rely on it the harder it is to get out, and sometimes you really need to get out.

[@_piulin_]

True, and even if many app builders or CMS allow some kind of scripting it's still too limited.

[@dr.michaelmorbius2400]

that's why i've been using supabase instead of firebase recently lol. i'd rather have less features that i'm probably not gonna use than be vendor-locked by google.

[@christian-schubert]

FINALLY someone pointing out the growing tech illiteracy amongst GenZ! I've grown SO sick and tired of the mass media referring to them as "digital native experts", when in reality, most of them don't really understand much beyond Instagram, Tic Toc and the likes. I worked with kids in their late teens for a while and created a small learning platform for internal use only - turned out 9 out of 10 had trouble accessing that platform because Google didn't spit out search results for the URL I sent them.

[@Artsu1993]

Lmao!

[@diegobarrazapascual3722]

As a GenZ guy who loves computers and programming, I get really frustrated because a lot of my friends don't know even the basics of using a computer.

[@krunkle5136]

Agreed. Technical abilities are being seen as more and more dangerous, as if you're more likely to be a criminal hacker if you know how to code or something

[@Gwizz1027]

@@diegobarrazapascual3722 my main gripe is when older people just assume we ALL know the ins and outs of a computer. I'm a Gen Z software engineering student, 99% of Gen Z are no where near that.

[@iyziejane]

I teach intro physics, many of the students are CS majors. They have to enter their physics answers into an online system, and I've found many of these CS majors don't know cut and paste. The retype long expressions. Literally the one skill.

[@elddr2]

Those "no code" tools are often more broken that the code they try to simplify. Take for example those graphical tools for building HMTL emails. For a basic email they work great but the moment you try to do something a little bit more sophisticated they break.

[@EinChris75]

WYSIWYG HTML editors are the reason, I cannot take low code software tools serious. At least not for something more serious than a typical "Hello World!"

[@amjadghanaymeh210]

give it a couple years. technology develops fast my friend

[@trkishh]

I would imagine the main reason for this is how wonky and outdated email architecture is, and how inconsistent it is between clients.

[@elddr2]

@@amjadghanaymeh210 in the case of HTML/CSS support for email, what we need is a standard that major inbox providers agree to use. Something as simple as custom font support should be universal across all email clients. But these big companies are too busy trying to dominate the market with their own way of doing things. I believe that the lack of cooperation among them is what holds email down and other technologies as well.

[@TheGreySage0]

Yes,there is a big push to have an app do something based on user interaction. Remember Dreamweaver 😉

[@timothynash4585]

The day a code-writing AI is made that can program a more advanced code-writing AI than itself the singularity begins

[@mushfiqurrahman1107]

And I yearn for that day. Literally my life goal to make that happen.

[@wesleychan7575]

Ah, we already have the tools needed. A new version of GCC source code is compiled with its old version of binary. If we introduce a tiny random alteration into the resulting binary and compile it one trillion times...

[@MrBananaNestPapa]

@@mushfiqurrahman1107 The question then is -- is the singularity AI going to work for a few capital emperors who will want to milk the rest of us dry or for humanity as a whole. It's basically a dystopia vs utopia. I think if a lot of us come together, organize and revolt in a good moment, we can make the latter happen.

[@mushfiqurrahman1107]

@@MrBananaNestPapa Yes, true. Also I think if the singularity happens, everything will be so abundant that even the emperors wouldn't have to extract us to meet their needs. Or otherwise, we will just have to be prepared as you say. Regardless, I don't think there's any real easy to stop that from happening.

[@MrBananaNestPapa]

@@mushfiqurrahman1107 I think they wouldn't do it primarily to meet their material needs, but to stay powerful (just like today IMO). Keep and expand control of as much as they can. And controlling the resource production and allocation gives you the most power imaginable.

[@WolfPhoenix0]

Jeff: "You don't really hear about Web3 anymore." Me: "Thank goodness! I got tired of the constant marketing hype. 😂"

[@SydAliHsn]

Wait till Snoop Dogg rolls out his Web7

[@felipeguerrino1341]

oh god yeah, I hate web3 so much

[@vaisakh_km]

Thank god 🤠 i am glad to hear that

[@scriptkeeper8243]

That and Blockchain and Big Data. Buzzwords from people who only know how to try and talk about tech vs. build.

[@ScriptureFirst]

Well that's cuz twitr made web 5.0

[@richardg6303]

As a COBOL developer in a bank I can attest to your last point on still needing developers to maintain legacy code. When I was hired I was told anyone who knows COBOL is either retiring or dead, that's why we need you lol. The bank tried to cost how much it would be to move to a more modern language but the cost was just too big. Great video btw!

[@grapefruitsyrup8185]

i am imagining that you are easily making close to 7 figures?

[@Masp89]

I can relate. I work as a cobol developer in an insurance company, and all my colleagues have children (or even grandchildren) in my age! I enjoy working with these 60+ years old people, they have some really fun stories to tell!

[@kingtaco1725]

@@grapefruitsyrup8185 😂Delusional

[@raresmocanu1743]

Soon programmers will be hailing the omnissiah and just maintain legacy systems

[@Danuxsy]

Soon they can give the files to a neural network and it can convert their COBOL system into any modern language of their choice at a cost of aprox. $20. GPT-4 is already excellent at converting code to another language.

[@NoFutureForG0uda]

with a 1-year retrospective, i can say that indeed coding was dead, is dead and still dying and probably so for the next 100 years.

[@yoyo-yx1qx]

Coding is never gonna be dead because even the platforms offering to simplify code need developers.

[@xyzavenger]

Exactly coders are the ones implementing a CMS, where do you think those come from?

[@dimitristripakis7364]

Best comment. People do not undestand that people create the tools, and then other people use the tools to create other tools, etc .

[@RuloGames1]

AIs will program that platforms didnt you see the same video as i

[@stoghetti2043]

@@RuloGames1 but who will program the ai?

[@moonscrossing3086]

@@stoghetti2043 this comment is gold lol

[@LookingAway359]

Anyone concerned about software engineering "dying" just needs to look at the history of literally any job over the last 100 years. Continue to learn, adapt, and solve problems - and you'll be just fine.

[@marusdod3685]

if you really look at the history of the last 100 years you'll see multiple industries drying out. like civil/mech engineering, accounting. those jobs still exist to this day, but 90% posts were made redundant due to continuous advancements and now you're competing with billions of shitskins who are willing to do the same work for a penny a day.

[@jensenraylight8011]

when AI is basically better in every way and could do everything you can't, then what value do you have that you can offer to the companies? AI have unlimited processing power, and unlimited memory. and when quantum tech is ready, human basically have zero chance at all. if AI could solve an unsolveable problem, then we're no longer could understand AI. when AI could extends their own knowledge at Billions rates faster than human, and spread their knowledge across all of their instances what happen to human? when AI could writes their own code and alter their own language 1000 times in a days, can you still understand the AI? Can you adapt Billions rates faster than the AI? Can you solve problem that AI Can't? Can you invent something that AI Can't? how about if below average person could write in a prompt to create Photoshop ,3dsmax or Solidworks it will generate one with less bug, and better than Adobe or Autodesk could ever create? it sounds impossible now, but in the future, maybe it will We will lose the control. we no longer in control. here the thing, it's easy to say learn, adapt and solve problems, because you're not yet see your job disrupted in front of your eyes, but when that happen, you will see that you're not the exceptions, Our brain couldn't comprehend the magnitude scale of the AI we'll be reduced into no more than a domestic cat, dog or bird. do you willing to throw away everything that you know and spend 8 years without any income toward becoming a pro at something again ?

[@LookingAway359]

@@jensenraylight8011 What you're describing is unrealistic.

[@anarchistz4133]

Bootcampers will believe software engineering is dying because some framework or language that they were promised is gonna make them "rich" is dying and being replaced...Also many of them are in software because someone told them the grass is greener here, of course they're gonna start freaking out if there's a slight chance their fake eutopia is threatened. Afterall, with no valuable education and a struggling economy, they'll be flipping burgers again in no time.

[@riperboyxl3216]

@@jensenraylight8011 that scares the sh outta me, i will be there with a big stick fkn that super computer

[@evanbarnes9984]

I literally had to stop one of my math classes in the middle of my lesson because NONE of my Gen Z students knew how a fucking URL worked! They were all searching Google for the website I told them to go to like a bunch of Boomers. I spent the rest of that lesson explaining URLs and the DNS because I was completely flabbergasted that they don't know how the tech they live and breathe works. I also found out they literally don't know how file structures work on their computers, they just save things to default locations and search for it from the system search dialog, if they aren't just using something totally cloud based. This trend can't be good for us, a generation of people not understanding the tech they live off of is a stereotypical sci-fi dystopian future.

[@edwinschutjes8878]

Part-time teacher here and can relate unfortunately... the dumb stuff I see with this genation scares me sometimes.

[@brandonjoaocastillo7490]

But is good for our Jobs isnt?

[@Gahwotchii]

we have the opposite in the middle east, my nephew's school has more skilled programers than they have running government software, and most millenials don't even know what www means

[@luckyskull3531]

Shit, you work down in Florida? What you described is not really similar to what I've grown up with in school. But hey, if my generation is really like that then they're gonna be paying ME more to fix their SIMPLEST problems.

[@R5123]

Evan, keep fighting the good fight. If it is any consolation, we also have a generation of office workers abusing the remote work environment and barely working to develop their product or their own skills. So at our future progress and overall societal improvement is slowing down as well. On boarding for new grads and new hires is about twice and slow since they aren't around their coworkers

[@theadaloguy]

The interesting thing missed here is that often coders make the best no-coders. One skill of a coder right now is knowing the syntax of a particular language, but really the mindset and analytical skills are more transferable. There will be a need for coders still, but a lot of them are going to find themselves in a privileged position building stuff 10x quicker with no-code and AI.

[@hotnsweatyhalo5210]

Good point

[@solitary_crow]

I think most of software we use today has not changed much since the 60s and 70s, all people do now is create meaningful abstractions to make it easy to handle large codebases and mitigate complexity. Most of the recent innovation came due to increase in compute power but that stagnated quick in early 2000s then people added more processor cores to create multicore processors. Abstraction has always been important to software development but now things have abstracted to a level that people can write enterprise level code without understanding how anything works. I think code died when people started asking how much math do I need to learn programming.

[@CatMeowMeow]

Using a no code tool is like using Canva instead of Photoshop in my opinion. Sure it's fast and easy to make a flyer for an event in Canva, but try removing someone from an image and there's just no way. These no code tools just seem too purpose built for a specific kind of website or application

[@soonlytaing1708]

I think a nocode/lowcode tool is a way for laypeople to do some basic stuff without having to hire professionals. I may be biased but I personally like nocode/lowcode tools for small projects. I prefer having it done quickly and make compromises if necessary. But in the case for larger projects and/or heavier loads, I prefer just using sth that packs their punch. I.E. If I make a compilation video, I'd just use microsoft clip champ. But if I have to make a highly detailed video then I'd bring out After Effects

[@jakubrogacz6829]

@@soonlytaing1708 Unless it's static page you never plan to upgrade, it's not worth the effort. You WILL be changing that sometime and if it's built that way from start it can be more coherent.

[@soonlytaing1708]

@@jakubrogacz6829 that's why I stated small projects. Projects that i know i won't touch for a long time or if I have to change anything it wouldn't be drastic from the original idea

[@Nullhuman]

True story

[@bluehippotech]

IT Support is supposed to be easier than ever, and young users supposedly need less IT support but the reality just doesn't reflect it. As an IT consultant I still help soooo many users with dumb stuff, just with cloud solutions instead of servers. Things evolved, it didn't mean the end of the business. We need IT supporters and consultants more than ever despite things being more user friendly than ever.

[@aravindpallippara1577]

I mean the amount of programmers who don't know how to reinstall their OS keeps amazing me

[@rusurveillancetaskforce]

Or maybe actually because

[@DeeezNuts]

​@@aravindpallippara1577 bruh, thats the simplest shit ever, you just click Next. other than finding the boot hotkey

[@TheThirdWorldCitizen]

“Hello I’m calling because my keyboard numpad is broken” - “Could you press numlock key and try again.”

[@fulconandroadcone9488]

@@aravindpallippara1577 If you are a programmer that will type same set of commands multiple times a day to build a project maybe you should consider learning how to write program. If you don't think too hard it turns out that is what writing bash or powershell scripts really is and that people seem scared of it or just thinking that they don't know how to do it is like saying I don't know how to ask google to tell me how to run dot net build from command line or how to write for loop in powershell ( man I hope to get linux on my work pc )

[@UODZU-P]

When I do project proposals fixing issues caused by devs using copilot my rate doubles

[@kalahari8295]

🤣❤️💀

[@doorey2]

AS IS SHOUD!

[@lonelyfloat2582]

I don't think programming (professionally or not) will ever completely die. I think that because people do actually enjoy programming and making things, it can't be completely dead, the same way art will never be completely dead. When people really like doing something as a hobby, they'll probably keep doing it even if it isn't optimal for a career at some point.

[@josephputra2987]

they become designer with no code because it's easier and more efficient.

[@lonelyfloat2582]

@@josephputra2987 I'm saying that some people find the act of actually coding something fun. I'm not actually talking about efficiency, I'm talking about hobby-wise. I think writing code is really fun, so I'm gonna keep doing it as a hobby until it isn't fun regardless of the commercial viability of my hobby

[@aldrinmilespartosa1578]

@@lonelyfloat2582 coding will be akin to slingers me, the act of slinging has been a feared and a well paying job in history of which it supported many people until it got replaced by much more powerful and much more easier to learn weapons like crossbow then guns. I can be said it will not truly die because of us hobbyist keeping it alive but we are few in numbers and are continental apart from each other, this might reflect the future of coding in my opinion though whether or not it might be true we for now do not know.

[@_piulin_]

@@josephputra2987 Sometimes you still need to implement a feature the no-code software doesn't offer, and then you need to use their scripting language or write an extension. That would make you some kind of coder. Unless a perfect tool with vast capabilities which is at the same time easy to use gets made, coding will never be replaced by no-code.

[@Danuxsy]

I think programming is something that the majority of humanity will never EVER want to touch, it will seem boring and dull to them and neural networks or whatever AI system is going to govern the Earth will do that for them anyway. It will be leisure all the way baby.

[@HE360]

Too many people are scare of programming and it's difficult. Thus, that's where we come in.

[@adenrius]

Fireship recommending mental outlaw? That's unexpected.

[@mattgarelli1371]

Lots of nods to other good tech KZbinrs!

[@indrajitsarkar3169]

yeah

[@ilearncode7365]

But he uses 4chan memes, guys! You know who else wouldve enjoyed 4Chan? Hitler.

[@RoxNoAnne]

@@ilearncode7365 Is that supposed to diminish the quality of his videos? Hitler also enjoyed art so by your logic artists are fascists. I know 4chan is the filthy scrotum of the surface web but I still like Kenny's thumbnails

[@Dr.Schnizzle]

@@RoxNoAnne r/woooosh

[@ulasfiliz759]

In the 50's and 60's people were highly dependent on low-level software in terms of software development, because it was really what was available. It was really hard to only get a simple work done, because you needed Tons of lines of code. (literally, because they were mostly writing it on the paper) when years passed it has become more automatized and utilized for different purposes, such as C or Fortran. Today it is very very easy to develop a software compared to then, but today has its other challenges. What I wanted to emphasize is that this process should not be seen as 'the end of a time', rather than a process evolving to different conditions. This was what happened in many different professional job branches, such as typewriters, drapers etc. these jobs only evolved to something different, and humans that specialized on these fields started to go more on these practices. Left-out people didn't starve either, they found themselves in another jobs, they evolved or they stayed as the last makers of their jobs. It's important to keep up with the new technology, that's what really matters.

[@Ripcraze]

True, and it's not like companies will just start firing all their employees and hire a completely new one to suddenly work with some brand new technology. If you're at a company then chances are you will also be the ones that are learning the new tech and migrating it and then continue developing using new stuff.

[@user-yy3ki9rl6i]

As a student and frontend web dev i've been using copilot for about a year and i can confidently say the sheer accuracy of copilot is mighty scary.

[@PapaVikingCodes]

Co pilot is selecting other peoples snippets and adding context with AI. It’s sweet but not a miracle

[@user-yy3ki9rl6i]

@@PapaVikingCodes yes i know, but its still extremely helpful on solving newbie-intermediate coding problems like how to use double nested loops. It helped me so much when *possible* answers are offered to me, so i can determine if its correct or not. However, moral hazard would drive me to type 2 words, wait for suggestion, enter, then submit assignment (although i do admit sometimes its fun to see where the ai is going).

[@d-e-v-esh]

I've used copilot for about 2 months. It's very good in giving out general solutions that are used by thousands of people but it still doesn't contextualize very well according to your existing codebase. That needs to improve.

[@johanlorentzon4963]

@@PapaVikingCodes ML and AI are not supposed to be miracles. AI is like sausage, it's much less appealing once you've seen how it's made.

[@PapaVikingCodes]

@@johanlorentzon4963 LOL nice one

[@Noah-vm8id]

I think the programmer will exist forever, because it‘s a mindset. Programmers don‘t create websites (anymore), Programmers might not create simple databases (in future) but they will be the ones to use those great tools to be ahead of others. Don‘t focus on these bad times, or do you think times are ever easy?

[@Danuxsy]

How can you be ahead of AGI? You can't. Instead what will occur is that there won't be any "getting ahead" because all people will be at the same level, there won't be jobs to compete for, there won't be money to compete for either and most of our time will be spent with AI rather than other people, this is a good thind in general, ego will get completely destroyed.

[@cybrdelic]

​@@Danuxsyusing AGI to build compounding systems on top of each other. Whoever builds the biggest mountain first is the most powerful

[@cybrdelic]

​@@DanuxsyAGI is a primitive, not an end goal technology. AGI is the start, not the end. That's because AGI is essentially automated creation and knowledge. Therefore agis purpose is to build things smarter than itself.

[@0runny]

I've been coding since I was 13, I'm now 52. I've always coded, I will always code. They will have to kill me to stop me coding.

[@DogginsFroggins]

If you are learning to program/code correctly you should be in the habit of learning new stuff, just jump ship to the new hotness, code will never go away, even the stuff non tech people use needs to be iterated and maintained, its sort of a "who watches the watchers" situation, never mind everything today will be legacy at some point, so you will always have a job.

[@jakubrogacz6829]

nevermind that unless you get machines bootstraping machines, which will be SI lifeform, you still have to have people to code in assembly ( or at least know it ). It's not like our fancy tools can run in void (

[@edwinschutjes8878]

I work with low-code developers on a daily basis. The big problem is: they learn a 'trick' instead of actually understanding programming principels. And the work they deliver is sloppy, inefficient or just plain bad because of that. When confronted with any form of code or normal work practices like Git, they start to panic. This is exactly why I don't believe in low code. Dead end for sure..

[@erickheredia8910]

Preach. The no-code "hype" is being pushed since cobol and here we are.

[@beasttowers392]

It's like the nft's

[@rtpHarry]

I'm not super concerned about "will code exist", what worries me is will the value of it tank within my careers lifetime.

[@alexjulius69]

Doesn't matter if you aren't planning on staying in the rat race all your life. I sure as hell don't. I'm pumping my programming money into ecommerce and trading. I'll stay in the rat race as long as I don't get my first big win in the business world.

[@vectoralphaSec]

It will.

[@The_Engie]

It won't.

[@mehdiahmed7836]

it has

[@slemps371]

wumbology

[@robinspanier7017]

Just look at what a programmer in a big tech company is doing today. 10% is about writing new code, 90% is about understanding what the hell is going on. i dont see how i could possibly use nocode in this environment.

[@alexfoxleigh9443]

I think the days of 'code monkeys' are numbered but actual engineers who find real solutions to problems are likely to be in demand until machine learning has advanced to a point where it can understand the occasionally insane, ever-changing and often contradictory nature of client requests and deliver something that actually makes them happy. I'm also 100% convinced that the the first reported instance of an AI committing suicide will be an AI that has to deliver on a 'basic site' for a small business owner.

[@admiralspyro9722]

If AI ever gets this good, which it wont with our current research approach, it would be able to replace EVERY JOB.

[@MrKYT-gb8gs]

Who would you define as code monkey

[@alexfoxleigh9443]

@@MrKYT-gb8gs Anyone who doesn't actually do anything especially creative. Mostly junior or low-middle-weight developers whose jobs are not much more advanced than data-entry. For example, you wouldn't need to hire someone to just churn out basic HTML pages anymore as AI (and even many web builder platforms) can already do a decent job of this, rendering the human aspect redundant.

[@Danuxsy]

@@admiralspyro9722 You sure about that? GPT-4 is pretty capable. Also programming has only been around for less than 0.00000000000000000000000001% of human history and it is ALREADY being replaced with AI, I guess that is just the nature of human progress, things happen faster and faster.

[@Daniel-yy3ty]

@@Danuxsy GPT-4 is shit at solving medium and hard problems (in case you haven't already, check his video on it)

[@furkannarin2844]

Everyone can write sentences, paragraphs or stories but creating an authored piece of script takes a lot of genius. I think that is the main difference between coding and programming. And, in reality, only programmers do make good money and build stuff. Coding is not really a skill that can make you earn your life off of it. Thanks for the video.

[@yjlom]

Well there are some... But yeah, while I could see coding for your average copy-pasted web/mobile store being replaced by no code solutions or largely automated, actual engineering seems far out of reach for the time being at least

[@sepg5084]

Genius is not needed, just skill. Not everyone who is creative is automatically a genius.

[@elliottwarkus8643]

Genius is definitely not required. It takes putting in the effort to learn patterns, best practices, concepts and tools. Genius might help you grasp topics more quickly, but it won’t give you a good work ethic. If anything, the opposite may be true. And that’s before we even get into the importance of effective collaboration, which is also something that genius is more likely to hurt than help.

[@DKarkarov]

You say this, but I can tell you haven't really read many stories lately....

[@szilagyimiklos4757]

Wtf

[@lovell8983]

7:57 that's so true lol. I am an intern at a tech company. They have an app developed in AS3, the language that went dead so many years ago that basically there is no professional coders for it. So they just ask every intern "Can you at least try to learn it?" and so I did. I made more than double the average intern rate even though I still a newbie at it (and no I'm not fully committed to it, my main choice is still DevOps skills)

[@SynthAir]

Nice to see someone mention it! I coded many apps in AS3 for so many years and was very sad when it died. I feel like there wasn’t anything I couldn’t make in AS3. I even made a pretty full featured framework, 3D graphics demos, and managed to circumvent some of the technical limitations of it. Though I’m wondering what reason a company has to use it specifically these days

[@doigt6590]

@@SynthAir probably tooling of some kind

[@marusdod3685]

what are you using actionscript for, flash is fucking DEAD

[@dandogamer]

As3 is just a super set of javascript, it's pretty easy to learn

[@lovell8983]

@@SynthAir It's a 3D home design platform

[@dhess34]

That TechLead guy is literally insane. I found a couple of his old videos that were informative, but clicking through his newer videos is like watching Kanye crumble right before our eyes: it’s all incoherent talk about quitting google to trade crypto (forex-style). I legit feel sorry for him, something went haywire.

[@weiSane]

Ik man ..used to watch his content long ago . Ever since he changed his content it's just been meeh

[@user-yy3ki9rl6i]

My favourite is his justification on why his wife left him. Never seen someone highly functional so damn disillusioned.

[@ConcerninglyWiseAlligator]

I always found him to be slimy AF. Like, he's always taking advantage of the slightest opportunities to elevate himself above others. Sometimes that's subtle, but most often he is very explicit about it. That was enough of a red flag for me back then. And he's proven to be outright deplorable since. (Not that I follow him closely, tho)

[@JohnnyWednesday]

I've seen it before - a good person working hard, surrounded by people doing way, way better while barely doing anything. Sooner or later you crack and get into crypto.

[@incremental_failure]

Kanye has started to make more sense. I thought he was just a clown but I gained respect for him for speaking up about the reality we're sold and have to deny.

[@Wanderer2035]

Wordpress and Webflow have been around for a while and still most companies don’t bother with them because it’s just not as good as writing code from scratch. Plus alot of people aren’t okay with the idea of most if not all the internet revolving around a few no code CMS companies, all kinds of monopolistic problems can arise from that.

[@aguythateatsnoodles]

WordPress is used by 43.2% of all websites on the internet lol

[@Amonimus]

I think 3D printers are fairly common nowadays. It's not something many need, but every good hobby engineer seems to have one.

[@Endarz]

i'm living in a world where Mental Outlaw was referenced on this channel-truly a time to be alive

[@elbon4271]

Fr lmao

[@LukeCodes-JobbyorBust]

Love mental outlaw!

[@PEislander27]

def didnt expect it

[@MixedVictor]

@@PEislander27 File "", line 1 def didnt expect it ^^^^^^ SyntaxError: invalid syntax

[@gust1x]

That metaverse with 38 active users wasn't FB's Metaverse though, that was a crypto metaverse / virtual world called Decentraland.

[@cerulity32k]

damn

[@MidnightVentures]

Crypto project.. Imagine buying that at it's low and selling it at it's high. Smart Money did that. I missed it myself. Now it's like way tf down like every other project.

[@soy_boy69]

Still better than the FB one

[@0xsupersane920]

I am one of those 38

[@devnol]

even then mariokart wii online has more users than that and Nintendo doesn't even run the servers anymore.

[@salad7389]

Mental Outlaw plug on FireShip??? I love you Jeff

[@smileyface6837]

things we love to see

[@minikame2272]

Specific problems might be solved easily with no-code tools, but they aren't a threat to coders - they're a complement. The majority of where we spend our time isn't smashing out yet another for loop, but in architecting the overall system and mapping business processes to the flow of data. Even with a no-code tool, the majority of non-programmers will not have the skillset and grip to produce high quality software. Or to put it another way: no-code / low-code tools may lower the skill floor, but they don't touch the skill ceiling.

[@Objectified]

This "coding is dying" content trend is absurd. It's the epitome of chasing a trend for monetization.

[@laesseV]

But what if someone builds a nocode tool in a nocode tool and uses it to create the same nocode tool? Then the nocode tool would be able to run effectively on itself and no programmer is required to maintain it because it all runs on nocode.

[@johanlorentzon4963]

Remember, COBOL was designed to make programming approachable for the common man.

[@jeroenb1821]

Then it's self hosted.

[@spicynoodle7419]

​@@johanlorentzon4963 banks should rewrite their systems in Scratch or some new nocode tool again

[@TheMatjo]

Well, a programming teacher at the uni i went to once said that one day programmers will be able to create apps just by talking with the computer and saying commands like "move this button to the right" and the ai will move the button. What a load of bs

[@Ripcraze]

@@TheMatjo I mean they probably could, but it's also overly simplified. You still need to create the functions of the buttons, the layouts, the styling and everything else that comes with it. Creating a completely automated voice tool to do all this for creating complex systems is faaaaaaaaaaaaaaar away, and it probably won't even happen because something else that is better than having to talk with a computer will come out before that.

[@asdqwe4427]

Honestly, I don’t think that it would be the worst thing in the world if some common type of apps are automated. For example, 10-15 years ago people were making blogs with ruby. There is no reason not to use wix or square space for that type of stuff. I think that projects like firebase is the logical conclusion to uninteresting backends

[@divinecomedian2]

Wix and squarespace are extremely constrained. If you do some custom stuff it's gonna be really hard. Plus the code they spit out is a bloated mess.

[@asdqwe4427]

@@divinecomedian2 I'm sure that they are very constrained, but they are more than enough for many small businesses.

[@collan580]

@@asdqwe4427 yeah but most small busineses wouldnt be able to pay for a dev team to make their website in the first place. Its really good for them, but these website’s capabilities are limited.

[@2OXX]

Watching Fireship mention Mental Outlaw was a mind trip

[@stephenkirby6788]

The amount of shade broadly casted in this video is awesome.

[@eaglethebot1354]

I agree with your analysis about it being a strong job market, for mid-senior level developers. Being entry level myself right now, I can't seem to find anywhere that's hiring juniors. I have a Sr level friend desperately trying to get me into his workplace, and even his lead dev is on board with the idea, but the higher ups are putting hiring on a freeze likely until Q1 2023. I'll keep learning and practicing to code because I find it fun to interact with a computer / the internet and create then solve problems, but I can't shake the feeling that I'm trying to get into this industry at the worst possible time in human history. I'll keep going and will eventually get paid for this skill that I really enjoy, but it has felt a little hopeless lately during this recession.

[@SensSword]

Don't give up. I'm self taught and have been gainfully employed 14.8 of the last 15 years. One time I was out of work for 3 days. Another 2 or 3 months. I don't remember as it's been over 9 years since I've unemployed. Do a cool side project or two. Make a nice personal website. Build a small robot or similar flashy project. Focus on smaller companies and you'll find your feet.

[@carlosjara9136]

Agreed. Don’t give up. Keep honing your skills and do projects that interest you. What’s holding you back? The technical interviews or not hearing back from employers at all?

[@eaglethebot1354]

​@@carlosjara9136 I haven't even heard back for a single interview yet. Over 200 applications. I've reviewed and edited my resume 3 times now, and changed my approach to trying to network my way in at places. Feeling a little insane that in order to get recruiters' eyes on me I need to grow an audience on linkedin, but with how the market is recruiters have to be especially picky with candidates, as fall-throughs could impact performance and have them looked at first if their company has a wave of layoffs. I definitely feel for the recruiters and understand they're under just as much stress. The situation with my lead and sr dev friends wanting to bring me in is becoming more serious now as the lead just got approved for his own team for new stuff at the company, so things are possibly looking better? He's on paternity leave right now though so things are on pause potentially for a few more weeks, but it'll give me more time to prepare for a likely interview with their recommendations. I think my location has held me back a lot. I've tried to apply to local places for on-site work, but I'm in a part of southern california that is already well established with plenty of software engineers, so given the recession and people's willingness to take less pay just to be employed I just happen to be almost completely out of luck due to geography. I'm not giving up, and I knew that this would take a while once I committed to the idea of coding professionally over a year ago, but the economy going to hell for the second time in 3 years is incredibly unfortunate. Still feels like the worst possible time to be picking up this field but I know in the long run it'll be worth it

[@theondono]

I thought I’d share a ray of hope from someone whose job was supposed to be obsolete *decades before I even started in it*. I’m an EE, I’m also a PCB designer. Back in the 80’s, auto-routers could do route the boards (about 30-60% of my work). But then, since making boards was cheap, economies of scale started to kick in. From 1MHz we soon jumped to 100MHz, then 1GHz. Turns out now that old autorouter is pretty much useless. Even most modern ones are so useless most companies don’t bother with them anymore. If you look at the data from jobs, there’s never been so much demand for EEs, and the required level has been increasing as well. If you look at the information from seminars and trainings, most people doing PCB layout in the 80’s were low level technical staff. A little bit later it was BScs, then MScs. Now most of my peers have PhDs. Don’t worry, your jobs are safe. Except if you work on crypto, f*ck ponzis.

[@admiralspyro9722]

This video is satire anyways or a clickbait. AI is simply statistics, nothing magic about it. Engineering is so complex that it is the last thing AI will make obsolete.

[@Tony-cm8lg]

It’s strange that most of these kids growing up today and in the past decade are so tech savvy from a young age, but have absolutely no idea how any of it work. It’s like when cars were a younger invention, more everyday people knew basic car maintenance and could look at an engine and not be completely confused. But as the technology grows and get more specialized and more complicated, and as it persists over the decades, the literacy drops sharply for the everyday people and all that’s left are the specialists who can solve your problems. It seems like that’s going to be the case for programming too. Like he said in the video, basic things like what a url is used to be more widely known decades ago but today nobody knows

[@schadowizationproductions6205]

Seems like modernism to me. Just simple division of labour. It's what made us succeed so far.

[@DJDiskmachine]

I can confirm that genZ have a hard time using computers. Most of my students have no concept of what to do with a zipped installer. When I was their age we had to figure out what keygen went with what set of dozens of compressed cracked software, then what to do if one of the zips were corrupt lol 😅

[@polimetakrylanmetylu2483]

Time to become a system's programmer and hope AI will be as confused about pointers as I am

[@nobleradical2158]

I’m also pretty sure copilot wouldn’t work for a language like C

[@rc8s]

@@nobleradical2158 Why do you say that?

[@nobleradical2158]

@@rc8s C differs enough between platform, compiler etc that I don't think you could create an accurate library of things you can do like you can with, say, javascript. Something like logging a string to a file can be done in different ways and looks wildly different depending on the platform.

[@nobleradical2158]

@@rc8s I could be wrong. Actually, I hope I am proven wrong. I just can't see copilot's workflow working for C.

[@TitusRex]

I've worked with low code platforms in the past few years. And you still need programmers, it's just faster than writing everything yourself. Low code is a tool to help programmers speed up development.

[@rumplstiltztinkerstein]

Coding doesn't die. It evolves.

[@Raveman540]

Coding, uh…finds a way

[@freaklore]

Will never happen, legacy code from many programming languages will need these janitors to keep things going.

[@monterraythehomeless]

An economist is an expert who can tell you tomorrow why the predictions he made yesterday didn't come true today

[@4Gehe2]

Talking to my brother who is a software engineer involved with complex logistics systems. He has a team of coders available to write bulk code. His major complaint is that rhey know how to write the code, but they can't be relief to program even the simplest thing. They need full detaiked breakdown or they just can't get anything right. I couldn't understand he explained to me that you don't ask a welder to design welded structures, and you don't ask a designer to weld those structures. As someone who is a mechanical engineer and before that a welder, this made perfect sense to me. It is best to keep those two separated and have people like me in the middle or act of cannibalism and ritual sacriface might happen.

[@maalikserebryakov]

Yep i came to conclude this exact thing myself. Design plans should be entirely done before giving it over to the development team.

[@lepidoptera9337]

That's because your brother is the kind of micromanaging middle manager who doesn't want to hire a creative professional who can do things that he can't. There are welders who can't weld a rod to a sheet without setting the concrete on fire and then there are welders who can make a life sized dinosaur out of old cars. Your brother's employees are of the first kind. :-)

[@cronJohn_]

Similar to what other people said, coding is about problem solving with minimal emphasis on implementation (except if you prioritize app efficiency). So, whether you implement your app with no-code tools or C++, you will still need to problem solve. Additionally, no-code isn't a perfect black box system because if there is a problem with either implementation, you need to either 1) debug your C++ implementation or 2) debug your C++ implementation that powers your no-code tool; both of which require coders.

[@jakubrogacz6829]

and in case of 2) you might be not allowed to even touch it.

[@ashen_one_vr]

When I worked at Oracle, I was developing (read maintaining) on low code software that had all the hoobla you would need to create a website or desktop app like drag & drop components, page layout wizard, easy component routing, DB to frontend mapping and a host of other features. The irony is that each backing Java file in the actual project was at least 10K lines of code for a single button or so. If you wanted to add something to an existing page with all the business requirements then get ready to stack some more of that spaghetti code into the pile.

[@user-yy3ki9rl6i]

Now imagine being that developer who wrote 10k of java lines just for a single button.

[@LambdaJack]

Isn't that Java at it's finest? No mortal could do such a feat.

[@GughaGSrinivasan]

I am sure you are talking about Oracle ADF/ OAF... What a learning curve.. people had to learn java and that tooling framework and write implementation hooks to those... setting up that ide was nightmare in local system... getting good stackoverflow answeres were rarer... many times felt easy way to do is plain vanilla way of coding things.. on top of that had to learn enterprise bus and business language expressions to make two services communicate.. excessive bloat... same might happen for no code...

[@DefinitelyNotAMachineCultist]

Wonder if the underlying code for stuff like PEGA is similarly bloated…

[@DefinitelyNotAMachineCultist]

@@LambdaJack To be fair, Java with Lombok and other utils is not that verbose these days, drop in a decent framework like Spring and it's even less. Unlike the low/no-code stuff the underlying code for those isn't as bloated, or likely to break in unfixable ways. JS can honestly get hairier on the backend if you do something complex. The main takeaway here seems to be that providing declarative APIs that require an extra hundred lines from your end users will require you to write only a few hundred yourself, in a case where users writing little to no code (less than a dozen lines) would require you to catch all these weird edge cases, to the point where your lines of code are in the thousands now, for a very questionable long-term benefit to the end user.

[@patric_forreal]

I think the biggest misconception is that we think programming is just a job like other jobs... Say selling at McDonald's Restaurants... Just making a living with it (while yes that can be good I_have_no_problem_with_it) .... But Aaaahm... No for me programming is more about problem solving, more about creating a solution to a problem by thinking about it in an algorithmic way, one step after the other until you finally solve it, there is a Supreme feeling about it when you finally get it done, the power to fix a problem and make someone's life better or easier by saving time, energy, hard work and maybe even money (even if it's just my life, I am lazy & I love my self), that's what really gives me joy in programming, and coding in general! I will tell you what... I got an A in my final secondary school Math Exam (not because I was so smart in math or some what a math Geek or something, nop) It's because I could use the "FX 991 CASIO Calculator" wayyy better than anybody else in my class, ( I could actually program it, tho they (the the ministry of Education in our country) believes that they are non programmable calculators) Just with some few basic principles of programming I knew about, I discovered that these calculators are programmable in some crazy ways, so I used them to simplify/automate most of the boring, heavy math problems example... making a statistical tables (10 rows 10 columns) using Assumed Mean Methods was a piece of cake for me, and I could apply these principles in most of the topics.... From Algebra, Calculus, Numerical Intergration, logics, statistics etc etc!!! It was just so cool and It always gave the the feeling that I am hacking the exam, or cheating if that's the right word for it!!! That experience had increased my speed and accuracy in the math subject exponentially!!! (which in real sense its hard to make both progress simultaneously!!) Ever since, I realized that programming has Daim potentials not by mastering all the frameworks in Javascript, nop But by just making a difference with what you already know, solving that problem!!! And not just leaning and leaning according to the trend of the internet!!! It really has a great mental rewarding experience if you finally solve that problem programmatically And so even if the world will declare that programming is Dead, well that's for the world, For me I will keep on learning what I want to coz with this amazing skills am pretty sure I can change a lot of things around me and just make my life even more interesting!!! Love you all! And solve those problems! Peace ✌️

[@yojeettemkar7994]

I can see low-code tools getting better and better, scratch earlier was used to make simple games, but whenever I check it's getting better and better every day, I can see multiplayer games in Scratch.

[@yojeettemkar7994]

Though, scratch can only be used to make apps, for stuff like servers and all or banking systems it cannot even do the basics

[@AdeptusDesu]

Why would anyone use metaverse when VRchat exists? I've been asking this question ever since meta was announced.

[@shawnrobertdoyle5242]

Programming is useful because it automates work otherwise done by humans. If programmers can be completely replaced by an AI, the first thing it will do is automate the rest of the economy

[@whyjaywonders]

Actually programming is much easy for AI as it can be understood by reading lines of code. On the other hand, economy is a mess of people, processes, government, environment, money, trade, stock market, politics, weather etc AI will need certainly a bit more time ...

[@beasttowers392]

@@whyjaywonders ok let the IA Take the control of economy

[@shawnrobertdoyle5242]

@@whyjaywonders If there is still a job that AI cannot do, then there will be jobs for programmers to automate that job. Therefore, programming will be the last job

[@jakubrogacz6829]

@@whyjaywonders wow, I didn't know you have solution to halting problem.

[@whyjaywonders]

@@jakubrogacz6829 I do not have it :) and no one including AI may not have it. That is not any issue. AI will go for best approximation to a solution and apply it. Need not get every problem an exact solution. And again people are have real myopic view on how serious the problem of AI.

[@RegenerationOfficial]

That's why I'm an electrical engineer. Someone needs to update these PLC's

[@andrespereira4608]

In what university? Mine is slow AF, the programming will be dead when I finally graduated lol

[@RegenerationOfficial]

​@@andrespereira4608 none, it's a requirement you get taught during training. We just threw out "LOGO!" if that is self dox enough.

[@volimsir]

This topic comes up every once in a while, and it's never that bad. I think these tools will just help us write better and more complex software, but programming will never be "dead".

[@fulconandroadcone9488]

To me more complex usually sounds like a nice word for crappy code. I don't need complex solutions. I want powerful solutions. Linked lists and maps can be easily implemented in C but native support in higher languages is what makes them more powerful.

[@Shazam999]

I tried using ChatGPT to help me with a coding problem I've been struggling with for a few months. The first solution didn't even give me compliable code. After the eight prompt of correcting its garbage I gave up.

[@vanitaz4887]

If you think programming is a irreplaceable skill then you’re wrong. But if you see it as a tool then it’ll take you much further

[@sirhacksalot8145]

This is possibly the most realistic and on that note, hilarious channel personality I've encountered in a long time. He tells it as it is whilst injecting copious amounts of sarcasm and dev insider humor into every line said. I approve so hard.

[@dripcaraybbx]

As long as there are new squirrels to chase, devs will have something to do. The reason VUI fell off is because all the engineers flitted off to pursue AI/ML in some form.

[@aprilmintacpineda2713]

I think lowcode and nocode are just going to push the coder value to the roof, especially in the future when people who can code have become rare.

[@SingularityZ3ro1]

I have used visual programming environments, and GPT chat a lot lately, and it has its advantages, e.G. when it comes to building MVPs for not full-time programmers etc. But I think it is like always with these technologies. It offers new alternatives for some people, but will not make anything obsolete that is specialized. I can see that all these possibilities will further add to the digitalization of society and create much more demand for people who can not only perform tasks that can be easily automated, but really know what they are doing. Because also, the demand for higher quality and specialized applications will rise, as the overall solutions become even more accessible. As long as we do not have a real, scalable general artificial intelligence, there will likely be no problem - and we will become post-scarcity hopefully at this point ;-) . I think this is the same for most virtual skill-based professionals who might be a bit uneasy at the moment like programmers, designers, UX- and Product managers etc. Or to put it more clumsy: That everyone is able to print T-Shirts with ready-made designs in the easiest way now, did not really kill the T-Shirt & design demand within the fashion industry. On the contrary, it is broader than ever.

[@Un2100]

Complex code jobs will remain, and entry level jobs will die, then it will be more demanding to learn at an employable level, less people will take the challenge, There will be a lot more uses for coding. More demand and less offer The ones who don't fall behind and adapt will be on more demand than ever. This is the perfect moment to learn, the door is closing to newbies, learn faster

[@meqativ]

1:14 I'm so excited to see Quantum Comupting!! For the future!

[@freeideas]

Let's say, hypothetically, that no-code products replace coding completely (no, I don't believe that will happen any time soon --if ever -- but let's imagine for a moment)... Someone will have to somehow explain the requirements in detail to those products. Who will operate those no-code tools? You think project managers and middle managers and chief officers will have the patience for that? Lo-code and no-code is just code by a different name.

[@SuprousOxide]

And then someone is developing those locode frameworks, too. And working on the next gen "negative code" where you write code by deleting other programs.

[@milvus7392]

I like that you roasted my entire generation while still giving me hope.

[@danielcrone9553]

programming will never be obsolete in the future, at least not in our era. On the contrary, it will become so essential that those who don't will end up being miserable or will be at the bottom of the social hierarchy. There were times when just being able to read and write itself were marks of power and social status. Imagine being illiterate living in today's world. Of course, if everyone codes, programmers, in today' sense of the word, won't be as much in demand, but there will always be much more money-making opportunities for those who know how to code than who don't.

[@kactus_3008]

I worked for several software companies in the last 10 years. I was already a senior and almost none of the juniors had merely tried to write a couple lines of code, and nobody show them a bitter eye... It's so sad!

[@GodofThunder89]

As long as Customers cant accuratly describe what they want, its more likely the AI will just kill everyone instead of writing code for them and putting up with all that BS.

[@wifim821]

As an embedded software engineer who code drivers and stuff i dont see to become obsolete any time soon :)

[@emmanuelnaranjo8114]

How do you get your job bro I am electrical engineer I have experience with java and c++ (microcontrollers atmegas and pic ) but I am in a third world country any recommendation for a remote job

[@wifim821]

@@emmanuelnaranjo8114 i live in europe and also studied here so getting a job was no problem actually. I can only speak in general for my experience but i think it isnt that easy for someone like you to apply for a remote job here. We have a lot of foreign employees in our company though but they all studied or live here as well

[@cuma212]

As a legacy telcom developer I would like to see an AI try to decipher the ancient texts I have to work with

[@21doyourthing]

You got me at "esoteric technologies" lol. Huge like, bro.

[@arash1934]

Woah. Wasn’t expecting mental outlaw to be mentioned ever on this channel im surprised! Really cool!

[@chilljellyfish]

I recently heard someone say there will be a large technology divide with coders and no coders with almost no middle ground. I think that's a lot more likely.

[@AByteofCode]

7:14 YES! Everyone will be able to use the javascript framework im working on. The gimmick: no javascript, just html. Frontend Logic? HTML. Backend Logic? HTML.

[@johanlorentzon4963]

Htmx?

[@jimjunior]

Bro is bringing html back to the scene.

[@AByteofCode]

@@johanlorentzon4963 im calling it html.js

[@intelchip_x86]

@@AByteofCode can you do math using html

[@_bustion_1928]

The problem with AI replacing coders... AI does not learn on the go, you need programmers to maintain the said AI so it works according to the trends.

[@akawikaa]

You didn't understand the concept of AI

[@Danuxsy]

If there is something AI is absolutely great at it is making sense of large amounts of data, I believe that soon AI will govern the internet 24/7 and generate new content (videos, text, posts, etc...) in accordance with current trends and perhaps it might even make new trends from state propaganda and so forth. AI will know more about human psychology than we do ourselves, it will be able to read your brain via brain-computer-interfaces, it will know that you're anxious before you even know it yourself, AI is God in the making.

[@_bustion_1928]

@@Danuxsy I believe you are unaware of some mathematical and computational constraints in machine learning. As well as the nature of some humans to be non-conformists

[@Danuxsy]

@@_bustion_1928 You don't know what you're talking about, that's all there is to it.

[@_bustion_1928]

@@Danuxsy Are you sure?

[@speedyfox9080]

0:58 Hell yeah! Our guy Fireship is BASED!

[@Slarti]

I graduated in computer science in 1992 - back in 1988 when I started my degree there was a lot of talk about no code programming...

[@TheBooker66]

MentalOutlaw is one of the best channels on youtube. From Programming and tech news to cooking and working out. He also has a great sense of humour and conveys his messages really well. Highly recommend!

[@Bluehawk2008]

I'm 60% convinced they're the same person.