Is Dragon Ball Sparking Zero A Competitive Fighting Game?

[@elias60]

Anything is competitive if two people want to win bad enough

[@huevonesunltd]

Exactly, for example twister can be played competitively but that doesnt make it a competitive game automatically.

[@TriforceofJacob]

TRUE. very good point. Nobody should be listening to FGC negative nancies online 🙄 play the games you like, compete if you like, but stop talking like little shits

[@CreamyFSGaming]

Competitive in a nutshell lol

[@waterworka1]

Well said.

[@flubbledub5246]

the actual answer

[@stevenalvarez2924]

Not balanced? Didn't keep MvsC2 from going to EVO.

[@flavioalbatrozz2557]

Sparking zero is like if every caracter was magneto in MVC2 😂

[@EzKay_PX]

Thing is, MvC2 is broken in a way that makes it still interesting, EVERYTHING will blow you up, so every match is hyper explosive at high levels. Meanwhile SZ is broken in a boring way, where it just becomes timing checks and timeouts which just isnt fun to watch

[@TheAmberFang]

Yeah, balance isn't as important as people expect for competition: even competition worthy of being on the EVO main stage. What's more important is that the top-level strategies are fun and interesting to play and watch. The extent to which balance is important is that there needs to be *enough* character variety at the top level, which is what MVC2 manages. Though, that's just about being at EVO. Even a game that just had one character that had a fun, interesting, and powerful toolkit (and all the other characters were boring and weak), people could manage to compete in it if it had online; there probably just wouldn't be a lot of people interested in watching it.

[@watchmesquatch]

​@@EzKay_PXMvC2 is extremely boring after you've seen the main 3 teams that get played.

[@hiagustres]

For real, competitive mvc2 boils down to the same 4-5 characters doing the same thing over and over and was still good enough for EVO 😂

[@pensologohesito]

I really appreciate this video. Fighting games can be very elitist for some people. And many of these non traditional games are very fun to watch and are great games for the spectator. They are full of cheese, which are terrible for the players, but for the spectators? They are fun as hell.

[@shaolinotter]

its also sad that fighting games keep sacrifices their skill ceiling when their perception doesn't seem to be changing. dragonball fighterz was considered way too shallow to be a marvel vs capcom replacement, but it's still seen as elitist by many

[@Ghkijb6465]

If it's "full of cheese" and "terrible for players" than what exactly is elitist about calling it what it is? Sparking Zero is a fun game if you love Dragon Ball and mashing buttons with you friends. But the "elitists" are totally correct saying its not a fighting game so...

[@arpadszabo661]

@@Ghkijb6465 the fact that you think you’ll get any decent rank in this game just by mashing, tells me that there is no way you played this game.

[@pensologohesito]

@@Ghkijb6465 “cheese” usually means there are some considered unfair quirks on some characters that make it less “competitive” to some. Usually it’s just things you need to know before they get you and they are gimmicks. But when someone does those to some players on tournament, usually those are pretty hype moments and things people have fun sharing. Also usually it’s the weaker characters that have those.

[@imarock.7662]

​@@Ghkijb6465They're not correct tho. This is literally a subgenre.

[@nachobear5100]

it's not a main stage kind of game but i can see it being hosted as like community tournaments. Though the bar of entry for those is just "Do we have enough interest for people to sign up for it."

[@Chaoskae]

Any game that brings in numbers will become a Main stage game. The FGC tends to hate on smash but if it wasn’t for the Onslaught of Nintendo smash entrants consistently rivaled and/or beat sf at majors, weeklies and even online tournaments.

[@thephantazm5139]

Mad respect for diaphone showing some love to arena fighters they are quite niche competitively in a genre which is still kinda niche

[@iDrKx]

Unironically super niche yet the most popular they've ever been in the last 10 years (1 more reason to make content of it especially this early)

[@NoxLegend1]

showing love or capitalizing on the biggest release for the last several years for youtube content… ??

[@malcovich_games]

@@NoxLegend1 God forbid people talk about something popular to make a point and a buck on the side

[@arpadszabo661]

I wouldn’t say that spending 5 minutes dunking on the game for not having the same indepth training mode as sf6 is showing it love. Or questioning whether its competitive or not, when its admittedly isn’t and was never advertised to be. All it did was starting arguments from fighting game gatekeepers who feel threatened everytime there is a more popular fighting game than what they play.

[@NoxLegend1]

@@malcovich_games did I say it was bad? Just correcting the guy who said it was for love and hugs

[@SethkaibaTFT]

I think any game can be an esport if you want it. But the question is will the scene be taken seriously or die. For games like this, probably not.

[@meinishikawa3730]

Mexico & Brazil will take anything Dragon Ball related seriously so there's no question about there being a scene for Sparking Zero lol.

[@Baken384]

@@meinishikawa3730 Yeah if only those Mexicans and Brazilians are willing to put in cash to fly to the States for EVO. Probably not.

[@kallmeej9106]

I think part of the disconnect is that the better arena fighters heavily emphasize managing resources like ki or substitutions rather than reads, mixups, and crazy wall carries. Reads are definitely still a part of arena fighters but the heavier emphasis on resources management makes them manifest in different ways

[@Chickensea10]

Other things for everyone to remember: your jump move can also use ki blast different depending on if you hold or tap during the jump! EVERY character has a different type like aoe, slower speeds but better tracking, etc. Some characters like bojack can PARALAYSE you for free ults or whatever! You can use a jumping attack downwards and some people to a ground slam! Theres special interactions in the game like master roshis sunglasses being able to block solar flares until destroyed, or the scouters can see opponents farther depending on the rarity of it! Btw, use super perception to deflect beams away and gain a buff for 3x the ki charge! Useful for androids and slower charging characters If you spam the block button when small ki blast are coming at you or hold it while flying! you deflect them and gain gauge for skills and transformations! You can charge heavy attacks left and right as well! Charging a heavy attack has 3 different versions and a perfect charge makes the character IMMEDIATELY teleport BEHIND and get a launch for a combo starter! You can use your Ki button + up on the left stick to g grab DOWNED enemies, throw them and continue a combo! Every character has a different type of moveset depending on how you press your attack button and ki button afterwards! THERE'S MODS IN SPARKING ZERO! ALL MAPS FOR CO-OP SPLIT SCREEN ARE HERE! CJ, SHREK, AND OTHER FEATURES ARE HERE!

[@thelastgogeta]

I assume you mean versus splitscreen on all maps, not coop but very cool if true.

[@Chickensea10]

@@thelastgogeta theres videos for splitscreen out there already!

[@Beamken]

the ground grab is so hard to get

[@Chickensea10]

@@Beamken true that

[@redgrave4492]

The scouter having better search is a nice touch!

[@lstheprodigy7761]

This game is fun af but competitive? Yea thats a hard no

[@miles6120]

It can definitely be competitive. But just like with smash bros, there’s quite abit of “fat” to trim off before it’s even close to coming to traditional fighting game levels of competitiveness.

[@hvyarms4496]

​@miles6120 people will get competitive with it, then complain about After image strike 😅 the games full of cheese because it's not balanced, it's fun, but doubt it will be in a FGC tournament lineup

[@nirifer7275]

It can be both tho...

[@miles6120]

@@hvyarms4496 Lmao more than likeky

[@lstheprodigy7761]

@@nirifer7275 it definitely can be, but most likely wont since they arent going for balance

[@dylanlerian5960]

It’s fun but man dealing with Yajirobé and Afterimage Strike is frustrating.

[@ShikiRyougi05]

Luckily those are easy fixes if they actually balance patch the game. Senzu bean takes longer to proc, after image strike gives you 3 vanishes.

[@Eis7]

Don't get hit

[@BigBeardBros]

Press r1 when you notice after image happen let’s you keep up behind them

[@Jvxino]

People think that when we talk about ''nerf this'' we mean the characters themselves when the unintended busted mechanics are ruining the game. Current meta is very unfun to play against. Yajirobe/Androids/Afterimage Strike/Switching out characters to run the clock out/infinite vanish fights until someone runs out of KI etc just very one dimensional right now

[@MrVecheater]

​@@Jvxinoisn't it rather a strategic decision to vanish or take the hit? It costs time and ki after all

[@9brightkegan]

Kill la kill if was the closest arena fighters came to being competive but it wasn't as popular because of the ip . Sparking zero seems to be similar in complexity to kill la kill if.

[@imarock.7662]

Gundam EXVS?

[@9brightkegan]

@@imarock.7662 oh I don't consider those fighting games or even a sub set but are really really good competitive games that should have a competitive scene and should be appreciated.

[@imarock.7662]

@@9brightkegan Those Gundam games literally are fighting games though. Same with this game.

[@9brightkegan]

@@imarock.7662 you know your right they are fighting games I'm just being a bit gatekeepy of a term .

[@thelastgogeta]

​@@imarock.7662Stop pretending that Gundam Vs, Gotcha Force or Dissidia are real. The FGC cannot know about them.

[@chadafiy]

Hope this inspires more games like sparking zero

[@Beamken]

Hope we finally get a good one piece fighter

[@shinobuu__]

I like that you actually gave an honest analytical unbiased view on this. I see bunch of people (rooflemonger) just making bait tweets and when genuine people ask why they get responses like "because its an arena fighter" without anything else.

[@Mightykeef]

This was an incredibly good video

[@Pack52022]

Damn your here? Awesome

[@JayAG313]

Every fighting game is competitive. The question should be is it Evo worthy or is it competitive in the traditional sense. But yea it definitely does have potential to be with a bunch of fixes but that's what FighterZ is for this is for unbalanced fun. The only traditional competive EVO worthy arena fighter i know of is probably Kill la Kill: If

[@thelastgogeta]

Gundam Vs and Dissidia Final Fantasy erasure.

[@kurisu4630]

For real

[@shibamaycry4585]

I see Hunter x Hunter nen impact have a better chance to be at Evo than Sparking zero, and I'm not even buying nen impact but loving sparking zero rn

[@erics802]

I also noticed this If you purchase the anime music pack after a story mode mission completion, the audio breaks It sounds like your TV is at max volume with ear piercing buzzing

[@Oguh608]

The game seems incredibly complex with all these mechanics. People's opinion about the game seems widely different. Some consider Yajirobi OP some don't. Same for other characters. Im interested in knowing how the meta will evolve over time. Hopefully it won't be where making combos is almost next to impossible since we have so many defensive options in the game.

[@thepunisherxxx6804]

I don't think its a "real fighting game" but its still a fun game. Fun first should always be the priority for games, with room for skill expression and variation. Its fair to draw that line though. Traditional fighters have a different level of commitment and skill to learn the DEEP mechanics (probably most complex video game genre to master), lots of execution barriers, and mental stack on top of all that for the core gameplay mechanics. Arena fighters where you just press a button for a combo remove a lot of that complexity and skill, but that doesn't mean there isn't skill involved, as you can see with many Smash pros, and often the system mechanics are just as deep if not deeper as we see with how Smash Melee evolved, intentional or not. I love both types of games and it really depends on my mood. In terms of satisfaction and fun I get the most out of traditional fighters because that commitment to "get good" feels even better when it pays off and you get those wins, those clutch matches. The highs just feel higher in Street Fighter ranked vs Elite Smash, though I love both.

[@Herodotus888]

Why call it not a real fighting game though? It's completely unnecessary. It is just not a traditional fighter.

[@thepunisherxxx6804]

@@Herodotus888 That's why I put it in quotes, its just to reference the common sentiment to better get across my point, I don't think they actually aren't real fighting games. Just a different flavor...

[@sose6255]

of course its a fighting game. you do nothing else but fight in this game. literally.

[@thepunisherxxx6804]

@@sose6255 Are you looking to get CA level 3'd bro?

[@Giraffinator]

"in appropriate behavior was detected during an online battle. Note the following action is forbidden... : Other" lmao

[@m0002856]

Caught in 4K abusing the “other” tactics.

[@Diaphone]

It was after the first time I played Dr. Wheelo in ranked LOL

[@requiem9167]

Every one of the complains about the game not being “competitive” would also work for ALOT of old fgc games.

[@imarock.7662]

Exactly

[@asnlunatic]

Name those games and mechanics.

[@requiem9167]

@@asnlunatic assuming the issues are: not designed with balance in mind, bad netcode, bad training mode 1. EVERY smash game to ever exist has all the listed problems. We dont always consider it a fighting game, but it is competitive and has been at evo. 2. Street Fighter 1-2, literally combos are a big in the second game so you can thank games being made for “fun” rather than competition for those. 3. Almost every mortal kombat, especially the earlier ones are more focused on kasuals. The newest one also has a terrible netcode, but is still considered competitive. The newest one is obviously the biggest offender of every issue listed(with bad team mechanics, bad online, and a focus on dlc sales rather than game balance). 4. Soul Calibur strikes every mark 5. Marvel vs capcom is notoriously unbalanced across the board. It has wildly broken characters, mechanics with little counter play, and a lack of notable support compared to most fighting games. Note: Really any game that hasnt been able to be patched could be argued to be less competitive to modern games, as if they were unbalanced at release they were permanently wack. Also, rollback is relatively new, so that complaint shouldnt be leveraged against older games, but you could nowadays. People forget a lot of our favorite og “competitive” games had completely unviable characters and noninteractive mechanics, but still we accept them. TLDR: almost every game falls prey to one of the listed issues, and several meet them all. The only difference is presentation and modern expectations. Just see how every new title is “less competitive” than its older counterpart subjectively and you can see the rose tints in the community.

[@requiem9167]

@@asnlunatic enjoy that paragraph lol.

[@Pack52022]

​@@requiem9167cooked his ass lmao

[@ZzigZaG00NIN]

I love the use of Budokai music for the vid

Pong can be competitive. If you got players. What in the F determines competition? A certain style? Thats BS!

[@LOL-gn5oh]

Games from the 80s/90s and early 2000s were never meant to be competitive, and yet that didn't stop people from playing broken games competitively, like STurbo, Melee, Alpha 3, CvS 1, Sailor Moon, hell, even Rainbow Edition has a competitive scene.

[@corneliusrawness]

You are incredibly wrong about Alpha 3 and Turbo... to say they were "never meant to be competitive" is a weird way to look at those games.

[@thelastgogeta]

​@@corneliusrawnessNot sure about Alpha 3, but SF2 literally has RNG have a significant effect on damage and stun values. There was even a 1/512 random chance of getting a special move or a block in World Warrior despite having the wrong input. What this tells me is that even Capcom back then was aiming for casual players to just have a good time and to even the playing field before they developed what we would call catch up mechanics. Capcom definitely made a lot of efforts to make their games competitive, but Street Fighter 1 is the only game where I'm positive they nailed the balance even if the other games may have turned out great for what they are.

[@drummaniac30]

I was about to argue about Melee, but they definitely used items and crazy stages at the early tournaments 😂 Absolutely love Melee and still watch it regularly, but it was definitely not supposed to be competitive lol

[@eisra3625]

Diaphone FG content is so good man. Love to see his bright energy in all this games. Makes me happy.

[@Xengard]

ok, but counter argument; games like tekken 5, soul calibur 2, street fighter 2, smash bros melee, etc., aren't that well balanced either. But they are still competitive games that were (and some still are) played in tournaments

[@TheChosen1inc]

The terrible training mode made me quit. Thousand mechanics but no good way to practice 💀

[@watchmesquatch]

Practice by playing the game. Are you dense?

[@Undertaker93]

So you're trash? Got it

[@Herodotus888]

Yea they really need to remedy that. It is a big downside. You can't even set the dummy to block after first hit to see what is actually a combo.

[@MrInsiipid]

@@Herodotus888 Because there aren't "real" combos. The game is mainly about the defense and reacting with the right tools in the right situation. You'll rarely have what you'd consider real combos unless your opponent wastes their resources and can't defend themselves; you can't think of combos like you do in other fighting games. The training mode is still absolutely horrid, though.

[@arpadszabo661]

Quitting over the training mode instead of figuring stuff out is wild. That’s surely the softest thing i’ve read today. I guess modern fighting game players need everything spoonfed to them.

[@coolman5242]

The thing with arena fighters is while they have the mechanics to be competitive, they aren't marketed around a competitive scene. Most arena fighters almost never see a balance patch and once fans move on after 2 months is usually when they stop supporting the game entirely. The Naruto Storm series is usually the goto arena fighter, but once you rank high enough, you fight nothing but the same 3 meta characters and eventually get bored and move on. Ranked mode in these games aren't there to create a FGC community, but to increase the longevity for more sales. Who knows, Sparking Zero may be different, but we'll have to see how Bamco still supports this game during the DLC cycle is done.

[@MarkoLomovic]

Yeah it is so short sighted from developers when they could easily hit the mark on both competitive aspects and casual. I am not target audience for these games but man do I feel sorry for people that are. Ever game that gets released is just fan service galore that gets abandoned ,and they are left with this jank that had potential.

[@DankBean82]

Extremely unserious game 💀

[@bahuvag]

Funny..that a game what can bring the fighting game genre back to the spotlight..isn't accepted by some part of the fighting game community

[@TheRealCaptainLavender]

It really isn't. I know the 'content Creators' who may rely on it 'being competitive' may say otherwise, but it's just a Dragonball fans ultimate fan-service game, It really doesn't need to be anything more, especially with FighterZ already taking up that space/mantle in the competitive scene.

[@MaoMavo]

fighterz is ass tho so this is the closest to competitive dragonball.

[@GodleyBeast]

@@MaoMavo terrible take. FighterZ is insanely fun

[@bobbobby943]

fighterz is garbo

[@bobbobby943]

dead ass game

[@MaoMavo]

@@GodleyBeast yeah it's fun until you get comboed for a minute straight after getting hit by a full screen 5AA

[@phenom504]

I’m a big Dragonball fan and Ive been having a lot of fun with Sparking Zero. But I could admit that it’s not your “typical” fighting game that relies on frame data to dictate what’s safe or unsafe. It’s more all over the place but it is still a fighting game with mechanics that are similar to others that are considered more traditional. I don’t expect to see this at an EVO or other major tournament, but if it does end up there then that would be cool.

[@raztuf]

If it wasn't for Nintendo Smash would still headline EVO every year

[@ΚρανίΩ]

nah rn smash is smaller than sf6 and it was the same last year

[@mellomoose_]

@@ΚρανίΩsmash has always been smaller than sf tho

[@burgerchild]

Street fighter has several EVOs with more attendance than smash's biggest tournament ever. Smash would probably be #2 in attendance behind sf6 though, maybe #1 if it drops off

[@watchmesquatch]

​@@ΚρανίΩ you made no point at all. 😂

[@thepunisherxxx6804]

IDK maybe. The community is so bizarre and toxic, lot of the bad side of autism people in it, like punch a hole in a wall, I smell awful, PDFile hyper autism stuff.

[@trevormeed7044]

THE DP THOUGH its so good, it allows charecters to be strong but use a team or more medium lets you show more skill VS just pick big stat check charecter.

[@grayguy01]

Low cost characters running the meta and games going to time outs sounds like what happened back in the CVS1 days. We still did tournaments in that game and it was miserable. Let’s not repeat that. Bamco just needs to hit the game with a little love and boom. Let’s keep it real, this joint looks more like watching an actual db the anime fight than any other game ever thought about looking and it’s pretty freaking awesome honestly. I don’t even play the game, have it but don’t play it, I just LOVE looking at it.

[@VieMillion]

I think there's a difference between competitive and fun. Sparking zero not being competitive is okay, the game isn’t design to be this way, but it’s reached a point where it’s not fun. Always fighting Yajirobe which is literally invincible, make one mistake and take 30k when the opponent is on sparking mode This kind of things should not exist in a game, not bc it's not competitive, but bc it's not fun.

[@deityzeash2522]

That training mode rant was the best thing I've seen all week lmao

[@SonicMegaKing]

No, but it's not supposed to be, and it didn't try, which is what people wanted. So don't go trying to force it to be, that's just a road to disappointment.

[@kurisu4630]

Exactly!!!

[@arpadszabo661]

I’m glad most people still think this, even if that’s not what the KZbin comments reflect. This game has such a successful launch because it remained true to what the Budokai tenkaichi series always was. It never was about competitive play and never should be. Sure, some thing can and most likely will be tuned here and there, but this is not the game where i want to see two equally skilled player having the same chance at winning while one of them plays UI Goku and the other plays a Frieza soldier.

[@gabrielveiga5713]

@@arpadszabo661 But the problem with the game is not that, I couldn't care less if the high power level characters are better, the main thing keeping this game from being competitive are vanishing being so ridiculously easy leading to every predictable attack resulting in an infinite vanish loop until someone wastes all Ki and Super Counter being ridiculously strong turning the game into purely a timing skill simulator

[@gabrielveiga5713]

@@arpadszabo661 In fact, in DP mode, UI Goku is actually WAAAY worse than someone like Yajirobe or even Kame or Videl in the current state of the game

[@arpadszabo661]

@@gabrielveiga5713 being competitive is not what the fans want, the devs understand that and it was never advertised as a balanced fighting game experience online. I really can’t manage to care that FGC tourists came into the franchise and act like it should abandon what made it the most successful arena fighter ever.

[@sonnysumo8172]

I think the game has some potential to be recognized as a legitimate and respected fighter. I mean there’s tech, RPS, and some execution. But no dev support for balancing the game does not bode well. I mean melee and other games like mvc2 have never been balanced either but those games are from a different time. As well, fundamental design choices in both the gameplay and UI are also major drawbacks.

[@yamsSMP]

Also melee and mvc2 lend themselves to being extremely technical and execution-heavy games, especially for the top tiers. That really helps people invest in the game bc the effort you put in will always be rewarded. Balance is secondary to that

[@remylebeau34]

If enough people say it's not a true fighting game the scene can't develop and it won't get to tournaments like evo. Tenkaichi had a competitive scene it just didn't get anywhere, but if more people supported it as a competitive game, it could do well. I think it's just the players that make the game and once they start playing at a higher level you can see how viable it is. If people play high level and realise its broken beyond being played fairly then fair enough.

[@SmollPanda]

was definitely tempted to buy this game and play it competitively online however, the lack of rollback, crossplay and training features was a huge deal breaker for me. hopefully arena fighters would take these things in consideration in the future

[@Herodotus888]

The netcode is actually still good though. Can't really defend the other two, though there is currently enough players that crossplay doesn't matter but who knows if it will stay that way.

[@_JKings_]

even og tenkaichi had tournaments, why not the optimized 2024 version?

[@jeffcoesk8935]

Bro it does have tournaments what are you talking about

[@manzana_2001]

​@@jeffcoesk8935I think he means why not go to evo

[@riiel3474]

He's specifically talking about EVO though

[@jeffcoesk8935]

@riiel3474 i see, that makes more sense. I think there's a clear skill gap in the game and you could definitely hold tournaments for it, just have the organizers ban the cheese

[@jeffcoesk8935]

@@riiel3474 or even make set teams

[@Biggles_mets]

Those arent for training mode those are already unlocked in it. Those are for offline battles

[@yoruzeruel5009]

I wonder how Bleach RoS will compare regarding this topic, the devs have actually talked about how they do strive for balance and are inspired by games like Tekken

[@theflashfan3234]

YES, I'm curious about that too, I hope something akin to Kill la Kill IF, that game was taking strides in anime arena brawlers being more competitive

[@christhechilled]

10:20 Dia getting fake mad is cute and adorable 😂

[@Dragonborn1178]

If they add a lot of balance patches and fix a lot of the glitches, this game could be very competitive but as it stands right now, just vanishing over and over again doesn’t make a game competitive at high levels because you can do a button rhythm game. The previous games were nothing like that at high levels. It’s been already over a week and a patch hasn’t come out to fix these bugs. Come on step it up bandy Nemco. If you don’t patch and balance your game, it will be dead within six months. Don’t just cash in on success that you had for your initial sales.

[@alstermaniac]

My issue with the argument is that you can't really win the argument because we just try to get the closest we can get with broad categories. There was a trend where all those triple A titles were being called RPGs for example including Tomb Raider/Uncharted etc. No, those were definitely action/adventure games but people claimed they were types of role playing games, playing the "role" of Lara Croft/Nathan Drake/etc. but RPGs have mechanics and DNA that have us recognize them as RPGs even when they aren't turn based, Skyrim is a great example. Even though it could be considered action/adventure, it has enough RPG dna to be considered an rpg. The thing with traditional 2d fighters and even 3d fighters, is there is a ton of threads that bind this genre together, and we can recognize and feel it and its why smash was never let into that category and got put into a subgenre, the platform fighter. And if you've played another platform fighter like multiversus or rivals of aether, you can undoubtedly tell, that platform fighters do not play like standard 2d fighters. You can say whatever you want about sparkling zero in terms of competitiveness but it doesnt play like a 2d fighter, a traditional 3d fighter or a platform fighter. I take a hard stand and not as an elitist, but i do not consider sparkling zero a fighting game. I don't care to gatekeep or even down sparkling zero in any sense, it's just not a fighter. I used to call these games brawlers because the skill crossover is almost non-existent. The skills it takes to be good at streetfighter for example can be yaken over to guilty gear. But being godly at fighting games means almost nothing when it comes to arena fighters, its a different skillset, its really a different genre. I'm glad the game sold well and people love it, its a beautiful game to watch, but I don't see this as an EVO quality game. I just am not seeing the skill ceiling that games featured at evo have. Just my 2 cents

[@donovanhadley2209]

This why I hate the FGC. They always treat arena fighers(the good ones) as just button mashers.

[@Lusk1993]

FGC has always been full of gatekeeping trash

[@feelingfuzzied9942]

Skill ceiling is ultimately actually very low

[@arpadszabo661]

@@feelingfuzzied9942 actual D rank take

[@NANIKANSEIDORIFTO]

The "training mode dummy settings" are not what we have available in traditional fighters. Basically for custom battle you can set the CPU to have different playstyles to better suit the character or the story the custom battle is trying to convey. That's why there are more available in the store. It is fundamentally a customization item and not a training item. They just reused those "playstyles" in training mode so people could train against them in a scenario where they have infinite HP/meter etc. That's why when you select the "vanish" setting they don't insta-vanish everything. All you did was select a CPU playstyle that leans more into vanishing than a regular CPU. It's a training mode oriented to a much more casual audience and not the training environments the FGC is used to. Would it be nice to have a more traditional training mode? Of course. I just commented this because calling it "additional training mode settings" might unintentionally mislead people. It was not their main purpose even though they ended up being reused as such. Regarding the EVO/play competitively question I think they're fundamentally 2 different questions (Diaphone even gave 2 different answers for each). Can it be played competitively? Absolutely. Like many express it needs some tweaking in balance (even in keeping in line with the original "cannon" and some bugfixing but the game can definetely be played at a high level. In terms of being featured at EVO, I think it could have a big event/tournament around it, but EVO might not be the one. Not because the game is inferior to other games but just because the audience the attends EVO might not be super into arena fighters so it doesn't make sense to add a game that the audience doesnt want to see. This last part is speculation and more data could be gathered around this but that's my take as of now.

[@JayceCH.]

And tbf, for the Vanish training CPU thing, you actually have to try and melee/super the CPU so they can Vanish lol...

[@lvl2f108]

If sparking zero is at evo than I can't wait for Elden ring pvp and WWE 2K24 to be at evo as well.

[@jullianpree6791]

You have to turn up the strenght of the opponent in training mode to super 👍🏾 youre welcome 😊

[@frostyfrenchtoast]

Just watched a tourney and in the grand finals a mf pressed a button for afterimage strike and dodged an ultimate for free lmao I guess the game can be at EVO or something but it just embraces cheese too much for me to take it seriously. There’s a difference between just being genuinely unbalanced and deliberately allowing monkeybrain stuff for funzies. Also the training mode absolutely sucks, one of the worst I’ve seen in recent memory. It tells you nothing and it’s extremely hard to actually lab anything in this game.

[@AdventVFX]

The Tech is making it look like Tenkaichi 3 this is amazing!

[@calcutlass]

It pretty much has all the same "tech" from that game.

[@AdventVFX]

@@calcutlass ascend/descend tech has basically been gutted which is the main one

[@Mistouze]

I feel like the discussion ends at "no rollback" which is a shame because I lot of people are into this game and even if it's not my thing it's always cool to bring more people into the FGC.

[@actualsatanasismygt839]

Thank you for this video ^_^

[@dahuterschuter]

It's a fighting game in the sense that Elden Ring PVP is a fighting game.

[@ThisisKyle]

The PVP of Elden ring is not an entity in and of itself. It's not the focus of the game

[@dahuterschuter]

@@ThisisKyle The PVP isn't the focus of Sparking Zero either.

[@imarock.7662]

​@@dahuterschuterIt is tho. This is literally a fighting game. It's a subgenre.

[@dahuterschuter]

@@imarock.7662 lmao they didn't even bother to fully include local multiplayer, PVP is NOT a major part or focus of the game and it's not nearly a fighting game any more than Dark Souls PVP.

[@imarock.7662]

@@dahuterschuter That's because the hardware couldn't run it. If pvp wasn't a major part or focus then why put in a dp system? Why put in ranked? Why make online servers? Why put allllll of these mechanics in the game?? It's a fighting game.

[@caelus1710]

The No was expected, but the asterisk is unironically what got me to click on the video.

[@BNSecrets]

yajirobe, afterimage strike and false courage still need to get nerfed into the ground for the game to be casually fun. The game not being intended for tournament play (despite the fact there's, yanno, a ranked mode) is no excuse for the actual game to be bad

[@watchmesquatch]

Playing online is not casual. If you expect a casual experience when playing online in 2024 you're simply delusional.

[@TheActionTourist]

AFTERIMAGE STRIKE IS EASY TO BEAT kzbin.info/www/bejne/pWGUY6qfnd1pl5I

[@saterdei]

Dotodoya did a Ginyu Force run, it's specifically made for 15DP and only one guy had the balls to rematch!

[@mercurexi]

Could have been WAY better with small changes, too bad devs are clueless and the game ended up being yet another cashgrab using the franchise. They should have done this : - Free combo breaker : removed - Combo breaker now costs 2 ki bars instead of skill bars and works from behind - The cinematic counter (countering a counter) if successful removes 2 ki bars from your opponent (making stun/dizzy combos actually a thing) leading to risk/reward management - No unblockable if you have at least 1 ki bar left - Vanish timing window shrinks with every successful vanish - AfterImage lasting 15sec : removed and replaced with the single use version - Giant characters rush combos fixed so they can hit grounded opponents - Input priority to Blasts when holding the charge button (no more possible to fail and use a ki blast or do a vanish followup when mashing charge (hold)+ki - DP modes : lore accurate power levels - Outside DP modes : health etc is normalized so that character variety in Single matches is a thing - Senzu type skills : once per match - Skipping intros, while playing online, is a thing now. - Sparking mode can now be used once per character, and no longer consumes a skill bar to activate : more strategic usage / ''make it count'' type of thing. (optional) - Bug fixes asap (Classic mode control scheme bugs etc)

[@naturalfitness-1]

They would have to ban any character that has an unblockable ultimate like Berus and Broly. Thats extremely cheesy

[@LuckyRaphi]

It could be a cool casual competitive game if they fix the meta and some of the characters and mechanics. But in its current state the ranked might die soon. But i dont think theyll do this lets see.

[@warlocke1894]

The thing is that Arena Fighter can be produced with a competitive structure. It's just that the only Arena Fighters being made are anime adaptation games where is style is prioritized over substance. The closest Arena Fighters that try to be competitive is Pokken and KILL la KILL -IF.

[@Vanity0666]

How is it a competitive fighting game when the controls straight up do not function the vast majority of the time

[@watchmesquatch]

Skill issue.

[@thelastgogeta]

Being competitive is a measure of people (a lot of people) competing in it to optimise for victory (even without ranked, people are applying compelling tech in all titles), not quality like avoiding 8 frames of input lag, a root kit, a time stop glitch which is totally free when a character has meter. SFV had all of these problems (not at the same time I hope). I'll agree that having someone effectively lock out another player's controls is one of the most embarrassing things I've ever heard of. Sparking Zero is hard to top on that.

[@saifal-omaira4569]

Arena Fighters were balanced and competitive since Virtual On in 1996 and is continuing to be competitive with Gundam Versus and Dragon Ball Tenkaichi 2, 3, and Sparking Zero. Edit: Good points about the super counters and the Z counters (but that's what Tenkaichi 3 introduced and why others prefer 2 more)

[@misterkeebler]

I think it'll be fine if they increase the cost of vanish, even if it's a cost that increases solely when done in a short time frame, just to reduce the back and forth. It wasnt so low cost in prior games. Also, the Senzu Bean is a bit silly imo. No reason to have it go to full health. It just depends how much effort the devs want to put into balancing the mechanics themselves as opposed to the characters. I dont really care if it went to EVO or not, but Lord knows it would bring TOs a lot of money. Right now, events are largely carried by sf6, tekken 8, and strive, so we just have to hope that each of those maintain interest and growth if people want these ever-growing convention style tourneys. But Sparking will be fine on its own.

[@m0002856]

What’s crazy to me is how close this game is to being what id consider main stage viable- especially compared to the way the previous Budokai Tenkaichi games played. Like this game somehow manages to feel like an actual fight in Dragonball more so than almost any other game. It definitely feels more “dragon ball” than DBFZ to me. On top of that, you start to see the nuances that they put into the game to make it more competitive. Is THIS game worthy? I’d say probably not, but I think it lays the groundwork for somebody to come in and actually make a competitive arena fighting game. If you asked me before this game came out if any arena fighter could make it, I’d have said hell no too. After? I got some thoughts… I think an arena fighting game set in this universe made with the express intent of being a competitive game could actually work.

[@anthonyslaptheknee9344]

I feel its effect of it being very different and attraching a different crowd despite the fact effort was made to make this competitive. Many point at the DP system, but i also point at the supers. They are designed to be dramatic but very quick. Many arena fighters have their supers be very long cutscene, but this game wants you to get back into the action as soon as possible, much like actual fighting games. It includes mechanics designed to dig your teeth into and skills to get better at. People bring up balance, but i feel like balance isn't a factor in what makes a fighting game(Look at HNK. That game is unbalanced on purpose). I will say i feel many things should be fine-tuned, like: Vanish and z counters, Skills like the afterimage strike and the healing ones, certain changes to the tag system(just saying a reliable snapback would be appreciated) and of course other slight changes to help the games general gameplay. Overall as a big fighting game fan i think this game is great and has potential

[@maartenbondt9600]

I def think this game has a lot of potential

[@AxeTaxFax]

I want an arc of the anime/manga where yajirobe gets serious and runs over everyone, getting knocked down on loop but pounding senzu beans to brush off blows from the big guys

[@JayceCH.]

Canonically impossible since they are really limited and the Ki power system.

[@ebby3215]

in its current state it is NOT a COMPETITIVE fighting game

[@stonks6926]

I agree with these takes. I feel super counter is a tad bit too strong and vanish duels are a bit too redundant and of course the balancing issues, which is why I never touched ranked, mainly because Im sure 80-90% of my matches would have the same team Im playing against. I kind of prefer the unranked 1v1 mode because I get to see so much more characters, both weak and strong.

[@VoidEternal]

Please note that Steamcharts is not indicative of the game's actual health, playerbase wise.

[@manzana_2001]

Why not?

[@Digital.midori]

@@manzana_2001because way more people play on console

[@VoidEternal]

@@Digital.midori ^ Bingo

[@xKadoanx]

Having a blast with the game but one of the things that kills it for me competitively is the minimal character depth. I feel like the time I spend to master this game and get high ranks is less than what I ussually need to even figure out a single characters let alone become really good with them.

[@amazinggoob9108]

Diaphonous Phone do NOT do the a/b thumbnail thing I WILL have you arrested

[@chriswest6988]

Ok but it is pretty funny being able to tell which thumbnail people who didn't watch the video are replying to.

[@CuddlyBarkxo]

Coming from ranked Tekken 8 to this tbh TO ME it does feel a lot less competitive but it does have potential for a step above casual fighting. If the ranked system is good that’ll be a W

[@dolphin-studio]

it needs a lot of fixes, but has potential to be an authentic competitive to some degree

[@Owofolf]

Yes/No AB testing icon is the meta of KZbin nowadays huh

[@toodreammy]

I find it more like the WWE games were the presentation and showmanship are the main draw of the game. Winning or losing you’ll have a fun time in a cinematic battling environment.

[@DedAlexFive]

"DB Sparking Zero is not a fighting game!" "Don't care." I won.

[@giangatang]

This is the price you pay for mainstream success for fighting games. Everyone starts calling everything from arena fighters to UFC/wrestling games fighting games. Then ppl bitch at you for not accepting them as fighting games, and say we need to change lol

[@JoeGrizz1y]

I wasn’t aware of the glitches, I had some guy DM saying he wanted to play more games, but his buttons were glitched. 😂😂😂

[@jorgelgarcia6619]

It really depends on the developers and the community tbh

[@LecorbakOfficial]

imagine the game being at EVO, but of all the broken characters like gogeta, broly, beerus, jiren, etc... they have to ban yajirobe instead. that would be the funniest shit ever.

[@KaitouKaiju]

So the thing is the training mode setting. It's not for what the CPU does. It's for what you're training for. So when you pick a CPU for training vanishing, it's meant for you to vanish whatever they're doing.

[@mindofvirtuoso3358]

Sparking should be unbalanced. Like beerus should be able to kill 4 2dp characters with ease. But its the opposite 😂 yajirobe roshi and videl can kill beerus without even trying

[@kyleschulze4557]

personally i think the up attack, and guard spam to get the timing window for the counter is just dumb. It doesn't reward players for good skill, since there is no skill in spamming buttons hoping it works for you. I wish you actually had to time it properly and increase the window slightly, while also making it impossible to get the counter off if you are spamming the keys. That also being said one of my friends just had a macro to spam the inputs on pc, in order to do the counter. which even further takes away any skill involved. I do think there is skill in the game, but not in the counters.

[@Herodotus888]

The timing window on some of the counters is definitely too large, especially z-counter. It is way too easy to perform.

[@kyleschulze4557]

@@Herodotus888 what i really want to see is a gauge system for the counters that refills over time, or use the existing points and make it 1 to do it, or using them consume 1 bar of ki. Whats really dumb is watching for 30+ secs non stop counters back and forth. Hell I've seen one game where the timer ran out before a second character died, due to how long they were going for the counters. it needs a change.

[@Herodotus888]

@@kyleschulze4557 I agree the defensive options should probably use more resources overall.

[@MoonlightMaskG]

SO is an arena fighting game, it has everything a traditional fighting games has. SO is making a lot of noise it all depends on the people if they want to make it far to the competitive scene. I wanna see sz at evo this year

[@flowerboy9611]

Dia play Klk:If next i beg of you Dive into the arena fighter hole, and Klk:If is a great next stop

[@moneytime1556]

Man honestly the game is good. But lol it’s some chess in this game tho guys spam first form cell by keep draining my health.

[@ITNoetic]

You should've led with delay-based netcode. That's all I needed to know about this game's competitive potential. With 3f delay, netplay and offline become two different games. Anyway, what I'm hearing is that this is a great arena fighter for single player mode.

[@peacemakerpewpew]

so if they patch the game to be more competitive it will be competitive, great conclusion :D

[@icekiller1594]

Basically if this game gets the years of support that Xenoverse 2 which came out in 2016 is STILL getting it'll be sooooooooooo much better

[@xravia79]

If the developers themselves are saying the game is suppose to be unbalanced by design, I wonder if they will actually patch or balance anything. If not I find it hard to take this game too seriously. It will be interesting to see what people think of the game on a competitive level once the honeymoon phase is over.

[@KTSamurai1]

this bit where you and your opponent are vanishing each others' vanish seems easy enough to lean into for future instalments, just make it look cooler and a bit faster. dragonball has a lot of fights that "stall" when 2 equally strong opponents duke it out and turning that into a minigame could be fun and, if done right, a great way to express skill anyway, all these points would have disqualified a lot of OG fighters that are still beloved to this day. so it seems less a question about features and more a question of "will anyone sink serious time into this game to become the best at it?". and since there are arena fighter specialists i think that answers that is sparking a fighting game? obviously yes. it's just not an especially good one since it wasnt designed to be a good one, just a fun thing to hit buttons with. being a bad fighting game doesnt make something not-a-fighting-game

[@mahirunotsuki9]

Yes it can go to EVO as long as there are a lot of audience

[@Pack52022]

If smash brothers can be competitive sparking zero can have a competitive scene, after all both have similarities in the fact they were party games and made for fun. This could cook competitively

[@Zinksk8er]

1 minute into the video my current opinion is that the training mode is really awful, the ability to consistently perform and have interactions as similar fashion to traditional fighting games where you can learn and base skill reliably off of frame data to improve yourself as a player is just not there, or even something like melee which is so far out of the traditional realm but still highly competitive... I don't see it. I think sparking Zero is competitive and super fun but I don't think it's a Evo on grand stage game. This game is also intensely defensive, to the point where if you're good enough nothing is real when you combo. You also have skill abilities that that during ranks match perform actions such as vanish for you while you're powered up and your opponent doesn't have much of an option except for it to eat it. This is fun because it reminds me of MVC2 and other games during the times where "breaking" The game is what turned it competitive. But I would never personally pour hours and hours into this game as my main. I'd rather stick with Street Fighter 6, or even go back to melee which is SUPER free form but conservative compared to Sparking Zero. I am currently at the bottom of B Rank and none of what I said is going to stop me from trying to land somewhere in A rank or maybe even S depending on what it takes. This is the most quintessential game of my childhood, it's extremely beautiful and it's a lot of fun.

[@VirgoDurai]

“After a couple days I PICKED VEGITO”

[@brunoxd151]

Anything can be competitive if there's a competitive community around it. Hell, even TETRIS became a competitive game with tournaments and everything. Melee is also extremely unbalanced and was at EVO. Oldschool fighting games like MVC are also very unbalanced and are considered competitive.

[@Bfire0]

it's actually insane it doesn't have block after first hit