Is Durianrider correct?

[@durianriders]

Valid points Jared and thanks for the mention! Not many people have the courage to speak up like you just did. We need more of that so we can save cycling from the marketing hyenas who push expensive waxed chains and disc brakes on tt bikes etc. Cycling for the noob today is just WAY over complicated and expensive. Cycling is about simple living and making society better. Ride to live and live to ride!

[@totalrepawns]

You can see how much the cycling community has shrunk over the last few years, it's manly due to the high cost of these heavy disc brake bikes, many cyclist i knew here have given up cycle due to the Cost involved now

[@AbonneAbscent]

100% true

[@JaredMorris1]

You are correct! I look forward to more of your content. Thanks for your time.

[@out_spocken]

Arguably cycling is many things to many people mate. Though completely agree that far too many people buy into the marketing and what is 'sold' to us. I think people with limited money need to realise you don't need the best to have fun or go fast or benefit from any particular aspect of cycling. Those with money will always by the latest stuff, regardless of whether its better or not. There will always be Joneses. Sadly there's far too many every day cyclists that think they have a right to scoff at those that are smart enough to not buy into consumerism....because by getting others to buy the same stuff it justifies their lunatic spending on the 'fastest' and 'lightest'. Where's the hype for the most durable or most affordable or most fixable?

[@ecalzo]

i agree with both of you .. this summer i had no bike left then a single speed in my garage (and in the past i raced mtb bikes) .. i just trained myself all the summer on it and that worked out for me to keep the shape and level i wanted .. i felt no need to upgrade to high specs bike .. so i am on the same page.. that biking is simple.. take a bike that is suited for you and just go out pedaling ..

[@24badabing]

One of the things Durian Rider pushes is the financial aspects of getting into cycling. He shows us that there are beautiful high quality road bikes out there that will do the job for a tiny fraction of the cost of a contemporary bike. Good on ya Harley.

[@durianriders]

Thanks mate! That is why the racist sell outs like ZFC and co try to cancel me. They never said a word about me until I started exposing their BS. Myself, Hambini and co come under fire because we have big platforms and have the courage to speak up for the average rider. We stand against corporate bigotry and lies.

[@jjschmiedlin8813]

Right on! This is exactly why I keep buying bikes from 2014-2018.

[@matty8hiker]

Greetings from Australia. I live in the same city as Durianrider and have met him in person a few times at my local parkrun and other running events (he is also a top notch runner although obviously he cycles far more and credits that for his fitness for running too without the high impact of running training). I'm a big cycling enthusiast particularly commuting by bike to work most days and social type rides or riding my MTB on trails. His videos are certainly entertaining. In real life he is easy to chat to and has given me some good pointers with regards to my own bike maintenance so he knows his stuff. He is always happy to chat about fitness, cycling and nutrition. Whilst I'm not vegan I can see it's merits and he is always happy to chat about that but isn't forceful about trying to promote it. Cool easy going guy from my experiences with him in real life.

[@JaredMorris1]

Thanks for your insights and your time!

[@timdixo]

Agree 1000% with your sentiments. The integrated cockpit is the poster child of modern bicycle “innovation” insanity. It makes finessing with bike fit a complete train wreck.

[@manwithnoname6580]

I have a 10 year old Cervelo R5, rim brakes, 105 groupset and Mavic Kysrium wheels, still goes like a dream and servicing costs are minimal. Only upgrade I’ve been considering lately are a decent set of carbon wheels .

[@davidmurphy9151]

Buy some used ones - like two or three years old. Oh thats right - I forgot that would be stupid.

[@outdoorvertical]

DR is right that cycling is supposed to simplify your life, the contemporary bike industry is totally opposed to this.

[@kevinfrost1579]

Ask an experienced bike mechanic and they will tell you what the industry product pushers won’t. Great video Jared. Transparent , accurate, truthful. 👍

[@JaredMorris1]

Thanks for your time!

[@puseidon52]

Well, it depends on a lot. For riders who don't do rain you're right. I live in the westcoast of Norway (Northern Europe). In my city it rains (or snows) 200 days in a year. I ride 20000km each year also doing ultra distance events. My wheelsets (disc brake) is 5 years old. When I ran rim brakes I needed a new set each spring. As for the internal routing I'm not the greatest fan, but you if you run a continuous outer cable from shifter to mech you can keep it for many years and just pull out the old wire and insert a new one every second year. Then it becomes quite easy to maintain. As for the bleeding; it's not that difficult if you have the tools and well worth the savings you get from not having to buy new wheels every spring. And it also means that you can run nicer wheels all the year because the rims don't wear out. When doing ultra distance events the hydraulic braking is very safe when you get tired and hands go numb. So no rim brakes for me. Protip: don't use alu-nippels on carbon rims. They will corrode in wet and salty roads.

[@jnichols959]

I agree 100%. I'm in western Oregon and ride year round. I have no desire to go back to rim brakes even though hydraulic brake maintenance requires more time. The additional risk and stress of riding in the wet with rim brakes is simply not worth it for me. I also ran through a set of rims very quickly after moving here but have been on the same quality carbon disc wheels for 7 years quite happily. Not saying I disagree with the rest of the points made by these folks, but I do disagree with the idea that rim brakes are better. They're not for me with the weather where I live and ride.

[@DaveCM]

I agree with you. I started riding in 1988. So, I have lots of experience with rim brakes. I bought my first disc brake road bike about 6 years ago. I just bought a new road frame and it is disc. I have no intentions of ever buying another rim brake bike. I just sold my last rim brake bike. On the rare occasions I rode it, I had to recalibrate my stopping. And I remember how how impressed I was with the braking when I bought it. Plus, I do occasionally ride in the mountains and disc brakes absolutely rule in the mountains. Like you said, bleeding is actually pretty simple and not a big deal once you learn it.

[@Silidons91]

Alloy rims brake absolutely fine, and you're delusional if you truly believe otherwise. I live in Southern California and can bomb descents and brake perfectly fine. Actually the first time I had an oh shit moment was when I first road a disc brake bike, going downhill at a 15% gradient which leads to a very hard decreasing radius turn, I locked up the rear wheel and had to let go a bit. That never happened to me on my rim brake bike on that exact same road. I don't get to brake any later on my disc brake bike than my rim brake bike either. Once you understand the modulation of your brakes, they stop exactly the same. Even carbon rim brake with good pads like swisstops work great. Everyone just believes they brake bad because they used pads made for alloy rims.

[@puseidon52]

@@Silidons91 Sorry, you don't know what your talking about. Here in Bergen, Norway it rains more every second week than in a typical year in California. Its hilly too.

[@roddas26]

​@@Silidons91just because you think something doesn't make it true for others. Disc brakes in the wet just work better for most people, period.

[@DIY-DaddyO]

Old bikes are so easy to play with.

[@totalrepawns]

refreshing to hear a pro tell it as it is ! rim brakes on super light alloy rims is what I use

[@JaredMorris1]

It's time tested light and reliable. Easy choice for me.

[@chasjm21]

Good to know, thanks for sharing & no bad language.

[@photomotor]

“If you know, you know”

[@blueromeo1974]

Your honesty got you a subscriber... thank you.

[@andrewcockburn7484]

I completely agree that at the low end external cables make sense, but if someone buys a $12,000 bike, they are going to be able to pay for an expensive service.

[@stevensantana8049]

I also have a bianchi Pennia 2005 rim brake it is 18 years old now upgraded to campagnolo 12 Speed very easy to maintain now i got a new bike called Winspace SLC with Campy 12 Speed with WTO 45 WHELLS

[@simonwarmer8777]

Fresh breath of air coming from a mechanic 👍

[@richardcarr6493]

l agree completely with everything you said !! l have no ambition to upgrade to disc road bike ,gravel /MTB sure but as for my next road bike l m looking at used 2010 or newer rim brake uber light weight road bike just deciding on which one l like most :) l also would not mind a 90s metal framed road bike too :)

[@JaredMorris1]

Good luck!

[@liammcgough9969]

I like Durianrider videos minus the cursing. That's his chose to curse. I watched him since he started. I liked the content about cycling. I agree about vintage bikes being easier to buy and service, My newest bike is a 1992 Trek 8000 SLR and oldest is a 1984 Cannondale SR 300. I watch GCN ( global cycling network) now. No cursing, and plenty of content about old and new bikes, as well as the Park tool channel. I like riding bikes because it's fun and helps me appreciate living,

[@leightonbohl1920]

I agree; and well done for making the point. I ride steel bikes from the 80s and 90s. The frames are artisanal, second hand and renovated, but built up with kit from the late 90s or early 2000s. They are elegant, efficient, and relatively simple, and, in keeping with the history of cycling, the rider can be self-sufficient.

[@JaredMorris1]

@@leightonbohl1920 well stated!

[@lukewalker1051]

Yes, Durianrider is right about how cycling companies fleece ignorant consumers with fake marketing promises and increased complexity which translates to higher profit due to increased failures. Same with what the car industry is doing. More parts = higher probability of failure. This translates to more profit for manufacturers.

[@marvinkamei7007]

yes both of you guys are smart and wise!! Simple!!

[@gabrielfernandeztattoos]

The guy is right, but, cos there is always a BUT, older constructions are better, older cars are stronger, and like that with almost all that was builded to last long. Bicycle industry got hock by the same all industries are getting into and is more complicated/advance products/ more business, more parts, less durability. Simple. Good for bike mechanics, less good for the consumers that can’t do mechanics and are not handy. THE END

[@JaredMorris1]

Well said!

[@Bicyclechris]

Accurate. :)

[@yeahnah7220]

We're not talking brain surgery here. The consumer of today in comparison to yesteryear are of little difference to one another. Those who will do their own service work today are those who would have done it yesteryear, as are those who elect for someone else to do the work. I'm fully capable of doing it myself, but on a cost/time/convenience ratio, it makes far more sense across the board to have someone do it for me.

[@BrianRPaterson]

I agree entirely, up to a point. I have a 2002 Cannondale CAAD3 XS800 cyclo-cross bike I ride on the roads. I've rebuilt it 2 or 3 times, but everything is standard so I need minimal tools. Cable routing is external, so it's easy to maintain. The only downsides are weight - 11.6kg all up - and rim brakes. I find rim brakes are OK when it's dry, but terrifying in the wet. Especially on steeper descents. I've even got Magura hydraulic rim brakes which grip as hard as anything I've used, and the lag time in the rain is still a worry. If I could mount hydraulic discs, I would. If I buy a new bike, it'll be one with discs. That said I'd pick alu or Ti over carbon, and avoid integrated cockpits like the plague. I like my bikes to be reliable and last a while. Cheers

[@JaredMorris1]

You have a cool bike!

[@84imreplica]

I like Durianrider, but he can be a drama queen. Even though I have a number of bikes with hydro disc brakes and internal cable I agree with you and Durianrider that the older bikes were often lighter and easier to maintain. Having said that, I have a 2018 Giant Defy Advanced Pro 0 (full carbon, hydro discs, Di2, etc) and have ridden the bike for 10,000km with very little maintenance. I've not had to adjust/bleed the brakes and have only had the Di2 shifter/derailleur adjusted once.

[@JaredMorris1]

Di2 will be the death of me. Those things are so reliable and need little to no tuning. This may be the way I will like modern bikes again. I just don't like the idea of having to charge my bikes.

[@longbra]

100% true. Worst mistake one can make is to try to do bicycle touring on a bike they can’t service or can’t get anyone else out in no man’s land to service

[@attybong]

same here .. i don't get exited with these new bike tech gimmicks, it's all marketing .. my rimbrake t.i. lynskey works perfect for me all these years .. ❤🎉

[@ketle369]

I bought a disc brake bike because I live in the fjords of Norway and it rains all the time. Rims are eaten up in two years, so it was mainly a financial decision. If I lived in a normal flat or dry area rims are better because they are simpler and cheaper.

[@BrianMcDonald]

I have a 11 year old carbon rim brake bike (Specialized Roubaix) with external cables and the highest end 10 speed groupset of the time period that works really well and is lightweight. I do all my own mechanic work and have upgraded pretty much everything but the frame over the years so I've been able to keep it very competitive to the more modern offerings. However, last year I got a new disc brake road bike (Cervelo Soloist) that has all internal cables, hydraulic disc brakes, and a 12 speed electronic groupset. Based on all the youtube discourse you see about rim vs disc and all that, the hydraulic brakes was the one thing I was a little apprehensive about when building it up, but when it came to it, it was super easy and the thought of bleeding the brakes is nothing now. Any extra bits of work that may come with the disc wheels is negating the fact that I don't have to worry about brake track wear anymore. Plus the braking performance is so much better in my typical big city based riding. Installing the groupset was super easy without any cables or wires too. Something I wasn't quite expecting is that this new bike is a racing bike yet it is almost as comfortable as a well used comfort/endurance bike from 11 years ago, and although it is a heavier bike, I can go faster with less effort so I have to try not to be too lazy when I'm riding it. Thru-axles are more of a hassle to deal with compared to quick release but I always bike with a toolkit so it's not that I'm not prepared for it or anything.

[@okayest_amateur]

Wider tyres no doubt. Maybe lower tire pressure will do that. Good for you!

[@BrianMcDonald]

​@@okayest_amateur I went from 25mm tires on the Soloist to 28mm and the bike feels more comfortable and solid than the Roubaix. To think I could go up to 32mm tires on the bike is pretty nuts haha

[@dexterx55]

11:28 im all for alu-rimbrake wheels but you cant deny that the feeling/stiffness you get from riding carbon wheels is ALOT better. Probably one of the best upgrades you can have on a bike.

[@JaredMorris1]

Good point.

[@harryrowland4734]

A good aluminium rim is better than an average carbon rim, spoke tension is always more consistent with an aluminium rim. Stiff wheels are not necessarily better, stiff bikes are not necessarily better, marketing spin is largely misleading in order to sell the dream.

[@astrayagrarian]

This is why I stick to a middle ground on everything when it comes to cycling products. Example: custom built carbon wheels with my choice of hubs and spokes, 12 speed mechanical Shimano 9100 (hacked 😎), EE rim brakes, 28mm clincher tires with latex tubes, modern high-end steel, carbon fork, carbon bars, aluminum/titanium stem, titanium crankset, etc.

[@TheFloridaBikeVlogger]

and also can't beat that awesome the sound from the carbon but it was once a poor mans sport.

[@drouleau]

I'll take my 1,350 gram 50mm Winspace Hyper carbon (rim brake) wheels any day, except crazy windy days here in Tucson (I have 30mm carbon wheels for those) over my old Easton EA90 SLX aluminum wheels, which eventually cracked the rim around one of the spoke holes. I used to love the Eastons, and have a pair of replacement Easton R90SL wheels on DT Swiss 240 hubs that only collect dust in my garage. My 50mm wheels just feel better for everything except heavy crosswinds (I'm talking over 15-20+ mph winds) on my 15 pound, 2020 Trek Emonda ALR (rim brake) that I built up from a frameset, and I've also never had any braking issues, even back when I rode in the mountains of southern California. On the subject of bikes themselves and new vs old, I've owned road/mountain (and now gravel) bikes since 1991 and my current aluminum Emonda has overall been my favorite road bike. By far. Same goes with my new Trek Roscoe 9 mountain bike, soooooooooo much better than mountain bikes from 20+ years ago.

[@george.carlin]

Hey Mr. Morris, veganism is not an answer to many problems but it's sure helps a lot. It changed my life for the better and 15+ yrs now into veg cult and so far I don't see any signs to get out. I'm older than Harley and now observe many of my friends 50+ getting onto some expensive meds, cutting polyps from their a$$e$, removing stones, treating inflated lymph nodes, etc. etc. I listen to their health stories and look at them like shrink looks at the patient.

[@JaredMorris1]

I agree. I know quite a few folks who follow a vegan diet with much success. It is something that may help people with health issues. People need to do what works best for their bodies, and sometimes that means going vegan.

[@stevepace-first8617]

I suspect that almost vegan might be easier and healthier. But there is more to it. Ethical perspectives.

[@1114gabby]

Excellent video! I always thought Durianrider speaks the truth on bikes. I have a 2012 Cannondale CAAD 10 that I love. Still has outside cables and rim brakes. Its pretty bullet proof too.

[@royevans4581]

Nice one Jared, you are a good man. Bikes should be cheap and easy to run for the vast majority of people, but I hope you get a few fat barristers in so you can charge 'em a fortune! I built my own CAADi12. Amazing 2017 base bike, now fitted with all the goodies, (yes Ultegra Di2) still looks brand new. It was easy to do because no BS design. Even the bottom bracket is easy to maintain. No squeaks if done right. This is my forever bike, cannot possibly better it. 👍👍

[@rickgallegos995]

Another guy is the bikefarmer on KZbin. He's pretty much on the same page and is an interesting channel usually.

[@JaredMorris1]

I love that channel! Funny guy.

[@maxab7e63s5]

I completely agree. Bike industry is making it into a Niche sport. Similar to golf. Unless you are a professional being sponsored who can pay the crazy bike prices that are being pushed out their. 5k to 10k for some bike that weighs 1 to 2 pounds less than a budget alu bike. My alu bike is 15+ years old, still running 10 speed and I can do all of the maintenance myself. Unfortunately most other youtube channels lie to the viewer claiming the new bike with disc brakes are better.

[@JaredMorris1]

The bike business is very fad driven. Personal fitness is going to be the factor when going fast. YT channels get money for promoting bikes. If you like what you have, there is no reason to switch.

[@ftlikemike]

My alu Madone is 10spd it's (was) a dream bike @durianriders will tell you the cold hard truth - that is his frequency and not a lot of folk can get onto it, that's tuff. He's right to compare "big" cycling to carnivores and that ain't nowt to do with him being a vegan. How did the niche market get a hold? in a word insecurity, same as dopin'.

[@stevensantana8049]

This why I stick rim brakes it is oeasy to maintain.. i do not care about disc brakes ro complicated

[@Jacob99174]

Side topic - what type of dog is that? So cool

[@aaron___6014]

Good for the industry too. The pro SRAM brake bleeding kit is over $100 dollars whereas on an old bike you could dial-in your bike with an Allen wrench or the inline barrel adjuster. Thru axles (excluding focus RAT axles) are a PITA compared to quick release. This is the story with all industries though; cars, homes, appliances, electronics. When was the last time you saw a TV repair shop? Loved the video.

[@JaredMorris1]

Good points!

[@blubaughmr]

Partly it depends on where you are, and what you use the bike for. I'm a bicycle commuter in Seattle. When I had to use rim brakes, I would only get three years out of a front rim before I had to lace a new rim in because the old one was ground down to where it was unsafe. Using rim brakes in the rain generates lots of oxidized aluminum goo that gets all over the tire, all over the bike, and all over your hands and clothes when you have to fix a flat. My road bike is a 2016 CAAD 12, and after seven years and 7,500 miles (I'm mostly a commuter rider), I've never needed to bleed the brakes. Changing internal brifter cables is definitely a major pain! I built my (disc brake) commuter bike with external cables, and I'm using the SunTour bar end shifters I've had on various bikes since the 70's, and with over 150,000 miles on them, they still work great. I doubt any brifter will ever achieve that.

[@JaredMorris1]

I too like discs on my commuter bikes and anything that goes off road. I have spent time commuting around Seattle. I know of the nasty gunk you speak of.

[@gregalcantara3084]

Greg Alcantara, Im from the Philippines, and also a member of Durianriders chanel, I agree 100% of what both of you say, that's my honest opinion.

[@orlandopiper3214]

He's right about the veganism too

[@Bellerophon17]

Re: Upkeep on disc brakes, in 3 years I think I've changed the set of rotors twice and the set of brake pads 4/5 times. The brake fluid has never been changed. Cost of upkeep adds up to about 300-350 in USD. Now that's not cheap, but 100 USD per year is not horrendous for the use I get out of the bike. If I had rim brakes, maybe I would have changed the pads 5 times at about 16 USD each, so under 90 USD total? The only pro that disc brakes have financially is the question of how long the wheel rims will last on both systems, but that's a messy one. Cost aside, there's no denying that rim is lighter than disc. But I can never understand the argument about disc brakes being messy or too complicated to work on. I'm no mechanical genius, and if I can change pads and rotors myself, anyone can. The hydraulics would be a different matter! (FWIW, this is based on 3 years, 13,000 miles, about a million feet of climbing and some winter/wet riding)

[@claybowler751]

I have bought over 40 road bicycles in my lifetime. I have ridden Colnago, Bianchi, Cannondale, Trek, Wilier, and about a dozen Giant TCRs, and a couple of Defys. If I could go back and get one of these bikes back it would be my 2001 Giant TCR Team Once in aluminum with Campagnolo Record 10 and Mavic Ksyrium wheels. That bike felt like magic! Race wise, that was a pretty good year! I have noticed that with each new TCR I have bought including the latest generation that came out in 2021, I have never felt as inspired on the bike as I was with the Team Once bike. I am done buying new bikes and have returned to my second favorite generation TCR, which is the previous generation that came out in 2016. I did love the 2016 Giant TCR Advanced Pro 1. I feel like I have wasted thousands of dollars seeking faster and faster, and I refuse to be a slave to the bike industry. I am insulted by these bike prices in which top-level bicycles top over $10,000. I hate with all these cables bent in all sorts of way to achieve aesthetics, the cables don't last as long. I don't want a battery-powered drivetrain. In fact, I am saddened that it feels like Campagnolo is on life-support as this traditional company just doesn't seem to have the R&D bucks to keep up with the electronic technology. It's going to be a sad day for me when that headline comes out. If you know the process of producing carbon fiber, you know these frames and carbon components are easily mass produced. It really irks me knowing that and see the prices of bicycles rise. Everyone knows the outsourcing being sent to Taiwan and China for carbon frames...

[@JaredMorris1]

Wow! Hammer hits nail! Well said. People like you who have been riding for a while and have purchased more than a few bicycles realize what you have just stated. Welcome aboard!

[@rolandmg1]

Excellent video and it’s so nice to hear someone else online talking truthfully. I love my rim brake bikes from the latest top end race versions to my old vintage classics. The problem is that cycling is now middle class and this is the demographic the marketing is aimed at and they believe all the bullshit. We need more people like you and Harley keeping it real and get more kids into the sport.

[@joeblack7469]

I agree to a point, I’d say ‘for most of us’ this is all spot on. I have a 2015 SS Evo Hi-Mod that I recently refurbished with a new paint job etc and for where I live and ride it’s perfectly adequate. If I lived or road huge hills I’d definitely want a disc brake bike, the downsides a few and wouldn’t outweigh the breaking performance in the mountains. That said I’m pretty handy and do most of my own maintenance. For now though, and I imagine for most people the early 2010’s bikes are great

[@BartAnderson_writer]

For the riding I do, you and durianrider are the best

[@JaredMorris1]

Thanks for your time!

[@donwinston]

My rim break carbon wheels have worn out after only two years. Buying a brand new rim break bike two years ago was a mistake. Aluminum wheels is not an option. They wear out too anyway. Durianrider is fine to great about a few things (veganism, environmental issues, carbs, value of older bikes) but out to lunch and weird about many others (weight loss, feminism, PED use, and Greg Doucette)

[@gregmorrison7320]

When I left school back in the early 80's I did five years working in a VW repair shop, I could pull and rebuild a VW motor for less than $800.00, these engines would create either 36hp or 40hp. Great cars, why did we all get sucked into this modern technology? I would hate to have to pay someone to rebuild an engine on a modern car because I certainly am not capable of doing it myself. But I'm definitely not driving around in a VW Beetle these days. I bought the latest model TCR, with disc brakes but it still has external cables outside the head tube, perfect bike for me and added to the collection which includes rim and disc brakes, the weight difference between the TCR with discs and my lightest rim brake bike is equal to 3x gels in the pocket, but it is my bike of choice for sprint training. I do all my maintenance on my bikes myself, have been doing so since I was 12, it's not really difficult.

[@jamesmoros1274]

It’s a typical industry drive, out with the old In with the new 😂 your right cheers from Oz 🇦🇺

[@JaredMorris1]

Thanks James

[@luketoms6110]

I wasn't expecting that I thought it was going to be a slating video.

[@MrChippinator]

I was looking for a new bike. Instead of buying new I bought a 2014 Argon 18 and modernized a lot of the components. There have been issues with it but I have managed to fix just about everything myself. The bike doesn’t hold me back and that’s the biggest thing.

[@universe-juice]

As the seventh guy that watched this i really enjoyed it. Good job!

[@JaredMorris1]

Thanks for watching!

[@universe-juice]

👍

[@johndef5075]

My experience is disc brakes definitely for mtb. Optional for road. My 2 rim brake road bikes brake very well. And I dont have huge hills or mountains on my rides so descents arent a worry

[@closer02001]

Your points are valid. But I do have a couple quibbles. I've been riding since 1975. Swapping out cables on my 2022 carbon bike (Cannondale Synapse) is much simpler than my previous bikes with exposed cabling. 15 maybe 30 minutes.... Brake bleeds aren't as difficult as you describe either. There is a lot to love about all the decades of bikes I've ridden and admired over the years. But Durianrider had one valid point that he pointed out from a GCN video; the older carbon, rim brake bikes are a tremendous value compared to todays pricing ridiculousness.

[@bryantpackard1592]

Run a 90 Cannondale 2.8 frame 62 cm. Last year of Superbe pro. and mix of Dura Ace dual pivot brakes (later upgrade). Plenty strong on downhills. MTN bike is a Klien Palamino running Disc... love it, much better than cantilever, but yest very expensive to replace. Commuter is old Nishiki mtb Cunningham, cantilever with upgrades, kept simple for roadside repair when bags... so i tend to target kind or riding and need for durability and simplicity of repairs vs mtb hardcore ride...I want strong brakes

[@JaredMorris1]

Quite a collection of bikes! I really like the old Klein bicycles.

[@DogandBike]

If you are not following Durianrider, you are missing out.

[@nb9797]

Thanks to him i got a 2017 Emonda ALR5 for 350£near mint. I was able to start cycling with this first bike and not get priced out from a healthy simple hobby. Others drink the koolaid

[@daniellarson3068]

That was a surprise. I saw a rebuttal by the Zero Friction guy and he cast some negative thoughts regarding the credibility of Durianrider. So, I began to think he was maybe full of you know what. Your video returns some of my respect for Durianrider. I've got an old 21 speed bike with aluminum rims and rim brakes. I guess I will keep riding it and see if the bike manufacturers begin to offer simplified bikes that enable owners to continue to do their own work. if not, I'll just get another old bike.

[@durianriders]

‘Rebuttal’ 😅 My lawyer said I should try take his house away as the level of defamation was clear and malicious’. The dude sells people $350 waxed chains and lies to his audience lol. The dude isn’t even fast. I’ve dropped him every time we hit hills hard. He didn’t even dare to debate my technical points and instead just tried to slander me. The dude needs help lol. He claims to be a professional yet look at the thumbnail click bait he used lol. He exposed himself. His backyard data isn’t accurate at all and he is a racist and a lair. His products he flogs are carcinogenic and over priced. Dude needs to learn some integrity and apology to Hambini is due.

[@rangersmith4652]

Straight talk, and 100% correct. True road bikes are not especially fast or slow -- riders are. Many of today's road riders are being duped, while those of us who've been road riding for literally 40+ years know what works, and we're not being swayed by the hype. All of my road bikes have rim brakes, cable-operated shifters, and aluminum wheels, and none of them are newer than 2019 (that one's a custom Columbus Life bike from Italy with fully mechanical Campy and rim brakes). My oldest is a Vitus 888 Motobecane from 1980 with a 6-speed cluster and down tube shifters, and I can still go faster on that antique than most of the riders in my group can go on their brand new "super" bikes. To boot, I'm 63.

[@iloveNgany]

I think bike technology maxed out in the mid 2000s. I ride an 07 specialized Roubaix. It was 800$ with top level components. I didn’t buy it to impress others. Lightweight, reliable, fast.

[@ramonguerra1430]

well partially agree, I have rim and disc brake bike.. I really dont care about the difference in braking. The biggest selling point of the disc brake is the capability of riding wider tires. The condition of the roads i ride are far from perfect and the pleasure of riding 25mm wide rims at 50 pounds makes the whole difference in the world that no rim brake bike will ever give you.. even running tubeless on rim.

[@walkerbikes8]

Great video! Need more people who speak out for rim brakes. Disc is great and I use both systems but I'll always love rim brakes more for road

[@andrewlabat9963]

He's 💯 right about zero friction.. But the issue with new bikes, it's that they all seem to be bread of the same womb, with the exception of the few affordable bikes not made in Asia..

[@thomasullmann7447]

In the end it is a matterof who you are, most importantly how fast you're riding and whether you don't mind tinkering/enjoy building bikes. I'm about to build my first modern 'aero' carbon bike, though I'll use some decent hybrid mechanical disc brakes to save weight. I'm averaging over 30km/h on my solo rides, and because they are solo wind resistance is critical. In the end, other than the mechanical and upkeep issues it comes down to resistance.

[@JaredMorris1]

Sounds like a fun build. Good Luck!

[@TheFloridaBikeVlogger]

waiting for Durian to chime in on this one.

[@JaredMorris1]

I'm not that big or important. He has better ways to spend time. :)

[@asams7255]

I’d argue discs on road performance wise are miles ahead, the power and modulation you get is very much worth it. Especially living in a hilly area like myself. But for people in the Netherlands or flat areas I can’t see all that much point. Will say thru axles give the bike some great stiffness though

[@rockhopper01]

Except for panic braking. If the pro peloton can’t do it, neither can everyday schmucks like us.

[@drunkdriver]

All the disk brakes I've tried have been an on off switch

[@george.carlin]

It's called Extra complexity. It's not needed if it doesn't make our life better. Modern bike is a great example of extra complexity.

[@laneromel5667]

Durianrider is a few decks short of a card. However disk brakes on a road bike is the dumbest idea ever, do not need that much stopping power on thin tires. Love tubbies over tubeless. My main road bike is still a 71 Peugeot PX10 with modern group set, paid $350 for it. Only 600g heavier than the top of the line new bikes. Love wider hubs with the through axle, so much more stable. Still ride 36 hole rims though. A person I ride with got a carbon frame, it was done after 3 seasons, but my 71 PX10 still good as new. Love the modern alloy MTB, far superior to the old stuff in every way. Not sold on carbon, for me far too fragile.

[@chriswright9096]

I believe more Tour de Frances have been won on a Peugeot PX10 than any other bike. A true classic.

[@psclassy1123]

Yea I didnt know what kind of burr Durian had in his arse all the time. But he should let it go because the bike industry has a whole bunch of young folks that believe all the hype about new tech because the never rode older bikes. You are exactly right about the old bike weights and ease to work on. People say weight does not matter but if you ride side by side comparisons you can tell especially when its a wheel set. And Im a mountain biker so what the hell do I know.

[@terryhollands2794]

I agree 100percent with the presenter.

[@rolandcolavizza5368]

the bike i ride the most is the bike i can maintain easily and not think about it. how ever my fastest bike is a modern disc brake road bike on the flats and up to 6 percent incline . as a training bike that i put the most km on i prefer rim brake. but for race day i take the new bike.

[@PDM1967]

For someone isn’t a subscriber you sure know a lot about him and his channel.

[@derekhobbs1102]

I'm South Australian, so tend to follow other South Australians on youtube, and the local cycling youtubers are a bit interesting.

[@nigelmorris]

Changing disc brake pads is a relatively simple. I have being using a modern bike for 3 years with no problem. As an older rider with arthritic wrists my SRAM wireless gear changing is a life saver. Agree for most to bleed the hydraulic brakes requires a bike shop but other than that the rest of maintaining the bike is no different than the older bikes.

[@paulh8223]

Enjoyed this video , what a relief , someone apart from durianrider and possibly madpec cycles and hambini that are giving the customer unbiased information which is valuable for noobs like myself , I am 52 been cycling for 4 years , I also listen to durianrider for nutritional information , look forward to more of this type of content

[@ebikescrapper3925]

Don't forget PeakTorque.

[@Bazza1968]

"Nutritional information"?? As in, eat tonnes of sugar, don't eat fat or animals and at 45 you too can look 75...😂😂😂

[@truthseeker8483]

Thru axles have the advantage that the wheel cannot be misaligned in drop outs. Seeing the speed of the pros in the Giro Italia made me a believer in how fast modern bikes are on downhill sections. Still as a casual rider I think I prefer rim brake bikes

[@JaredMorris1]

Some of those pros are frickn crazy.

[@durianriders]

The bikes are not faster lol. They just take more and more risks because it’s so cut throat now.

[@myxti3669]

​@@durianriders i tend to agree with many things you say. But it's a fact that newest gen hydro brakes allow then to brake later before a corner as compared to best rimbrake setup... at 70kmph + there is just an objective noticeable difference. Allowing marginally faster descent and more risks to be taken as a result. But apart from that rim is way more fun/lighter/cheaper and the frames are more lively. Like the new bikes are probably slightly faster on the flat but people rarely talk about what bike is more fun. I'd rather ride a 6kg rimmer that's slightly slower and way more fun than top end frame, di2, deep wheels, discs etc. (And I own both so I'm speaking from experience)

[@Hambonebodi]

Harley, he is out there man ,😂❤❤❤, but what he says about the mainstream bike industry is spot on ❤

[@goldenretriever6261]

That Trek is from the mid 2000s, when the carbon seat stays on aluminum frames were a trend.

[@johnparry9636]

Really interesting.

[@JoshuaParks]

DurianRider is still on KZbin? I wouldn’t know because I blocked him a decade ago. Sure there are cost/value advantages to AL and other metal bikes. And disc brakes squeal when out of alignment. But saying that older bikes are ‘better’? And as a justification for DR being ‘right’. Nah dude. Respect but DR just wants to create chaos….

[@Bazza1968]

He's the David Koresh of cycling lol...I was grimacing through one of his narcissistic videos when my missus came into the room,,she watched a minute of him and took an instant dislike...said he gave her the creeps...

[@Foxtrottangoabc]

I'm slowly catching up on mtbs, bought my first 26er in 2008 , currently doing up two 27.5 hardtails . Gonna do my first hydraulic brake cable this weekend , I ternary and have to cut to size , what alot of aggro 😅 had bad thoughts about just running external , even looked up best mechanical disc brakes to buy 😅. But despite all this it looks like I still behind the curve as mtb is going no cable and all batteries !

[@highfived]

Durian is the king of cycling he always tells the truth and can help save you Money. I have a brand new giant Tcr with upgraded wheels and and tyres. The rim brake of course Thanks durian rider He can look at a bike and see a recall or fault in minutes

[@jozuavanlangenhove6586]

It's a bit sad that maintenance on road cycling bikes became overcomplicated. I'm also a 2000's road bike cyclist.

[@BRMCaptChaos]

The biggest barrier to cycling, and getting more people in the door now is cost as a result of unnecessary complexity. Want discs? Fine - Take the weight out of the critical component of the frame. = Less durable. Lightness, ease of use, and simplicity are key. Looking at new bikes now, i should start a bike building company, its an open goal.

[@londonlionel]

I think both you and Durian Rider make some excellent points. I still own and enjoy my old Tarmac SL3 bought in 2010. But it doesn't get much use over longer distances these days because I much prefer the wider, carbon rims of modern bikes. It's my understanding (I could be wrong) that such wheels aren't suited to rim brakes. So I view disc brakes as a necessary evil. I'm sure my need for comfort would have Duran Rider put me in the older, dentist/barrister category and he would not be too far off with that. But from what I have heard, there are plenty of young, competitive cyclists who say wide, carbon rims are faster as well as more comfortable. So how do we get the benefits of such wheels without the extra weight and complexity that come with disc brakes?

[@durianriders]

The most comfortable wheels today are actually ALLOY spingery Z lites. They are cheap, strong and the MOST comfortable wheel money can buy. IYKYK.

[@borisgurevich5504]

Just saw this. Your agreeing with durian rider gives me much more confidence as he comes across grumpy and ideologically driven if not obsessed, whether it is old vs new bikes, disc brakes, lance armstrong or veganism. But more to the point, where can we get theese old bikes?

[@JaredMorris1]

I see your assessment as being very accurate. I have never met Mr. Durianrider so I am not an expert. However, I do see top end used bikes on FB market place all of the time. It is a buyers market for older used bikes. Happy hunting!

[@MrSzwarz]

I have 3 bikes, one with a rim brake, and two with disc brake (carbon frames), Yes, rim brake is simple, but the effectiveness of brakes horrible, even using SwissStop pads on alu rims. My girlfriend was shocked, how good disc brakes are, and she from now on uses one of my disc bikes. I bleed once per 2 year, (one Sram, and one Shimano system) brake pads are no issue I use Magura, or SwissStop brands. Quauet, and smooth modulation, it is important to pcit the right discl. I use Campagnolo discs.

[@zvonimirsaban8932]

Millhouse is all grown up!! Just a joke, great video!

[@JaredMorris1]

No no no...... It's, "Millhouse has gotten old!!" Hahahahah! Thanks for your time.

[@tuber6382]

Oh gawd the disc brakes.. why only one piston is moving and the opposite side is stationary? Who came up with this design?

[@gravedoja]

Brother cycles Mr Wooden is the most interesting new bike I've seen in a while. Also the alumalith by crust/ultra romance. I'm very bored with modern bikes, not sure why really.

[@JaredMorris1]

I get it. I totally understand what what you mean.

[@theegg-viator4707]

Truth spoken! 👍🏻 Earned my sub 😃

[@JaredMorris1]

Welcome aboard! Thanks for your time!

[@racerx8410712]

There's so much to unpack here (I've been a bike mech for over twenty five years and when you talk about the consistent need for brake bleeds and 3-4 times longer cable replacements it makes me shake my head. Yeah it can take longer for internal cables but that's only on bikes that don't have internal routing. Most open mold generic chinese carbon bikes have internal routing. And the advantage of internal is protecting the cables?) but overall this thing with debating old vs new is so tired. It's a matter of preference, the major companies aren't going to keep making the same stuff, minor companies and builders integrate old tech with new, racing doesn't need to dictate what us mere mortal riders ride, Durian makes good points but he's a fudging nut case....etc. I ride old stuff, new stuff, rim, disc and at 47 I just really appreciate the options we have. Some of the old stuff is still good and some of it isn't. Some of it's garbage and we suffered bitd but of course it's what we had and we didn't know better. Also, I don't get this contradictory thing you do where you champion older bikes yet relish in making more money on newer bikes. Cringe.

[@BioStuff415]

true that the older bikes were simpler to assemble and maintain - and Cheaper.

[@supocarta74]

I just build my own now from eBay etc.... which saves me thousands...

[@el_carbonara]

all fair points but still doesn't solve the problem of what happens when a consumer like me doesn't want to fuck around with buying some random second hand bike and wants to go new but forced to buy a ridiculously overpriced disc road bike. The only thing I can do is not become a cyclist because it just gets all to hard in the end which is what I feel now.

[@JaredMorris1]

Very good point. To participate in the sport of cycling will cost you big money. 5K to start with a pro model bike which needs to be replaced every 4 to 5 years to keep up. This prices many people out of competitive riding. Cycling is a rich mans sport and that is just the way it is. You can still be a cyclist though. Just not a racer. This is one reason new bike tech is debated. Invest in a good quality bike that will last many years and just enjoy riding. Many people go this rout.

[@akaraikiriakatsuki3157]

The only downside of a disc brake, is it can be expensive, on road bikes. Being able to use your brakes during the rain is a lot more beneficial than saving grams don't you agree? If your disc brake rubs alot, blame it to the quick release. Every time you remove the wheel, it could rub. I'm 100kg and disc brake never failed me, rim brakes failed me a couple of times. thru axle + disc brakes > quick release + disc brakes

[@cornelhughes6763]

The idea that its easier to change brakes (Rim) vs disc is strange to me. If you can do one, chances are you can do the other. As far as for disc rubbing, I have been on group rides where someone with rim brakes complain about brake rub and it can only be solved either at home or taking it to the shop. Integrated cabling is still new and maintenance of such is getting easier as the tech gets better (got my first bike with such last march and I maintain it in general myself). Find it telling that the same people who deride the advances embrace carbon wheels but refuse to understand why disc is better with that tech than rim brakes

[@JaredMorris1]

It's a crazy world out there!

[@GS-pk9rd]

Disc brake bike assembly and maintenance is necessarily more complex - we're talking hydraulics, routing the hoses, restricted access and fine tolerances that may or may not result in rubbing or squealing. That's not to say it isn't easy for some people, just that for many it would be a little too hard for them to try themselves. Rubbing rim brakes should be easily fixable on a ride - often a yank to re-centre them is all that's needed.. unless it's due to wheels going out of true then that's a problem regardless of braking system. I can quite understand the appeal of carbon, its been used for decades now on road bikes, doesn't really need any more/ different maintenance. It has obvious benefits for shaping components and aerodynamics without weight penalty. Whilst frames can be delicate with knocks in certain directions (I know!) Its not likely to suffer corrosion or sudden failure after years of use unlike alu.. the benefits of discs on road are however more debatable. For each advantage you have a potential counter-argument for sticking to rim - but each to his own and YMMV.

[@cornelhughes6763]

@@GS-pk9rd in terms of disc rubbing, a recent trick I came accross makes fixing it even easier. Most riders walk with tools to remove their wheel. Its just to insert the biz card in the calliper, set the wheel back in place and retighten the calliper while squeezing the brakes. If you do not wish to deal with hydrualic, there are some good cable actuated brakes(Juin tech, ONIRII ). Disc mean no need to worry about replacing a wheel because the brakes track are worn

[@Saltydog547]

This same argument also apply to why some people buy lamborghini instead of toyota prius. The prius is so light, so fuel efficient and so easy to maintain, why buy a lambo? The truth is, people who own a lambo don't mind to wake up early Sunday morning and take their lambo out for a spin, where as the people who drive prius only take the car out when they need to go grocery shopping. Not to say who is right and who is wrong, i think the primarily objective of a bike is to inspire you to get out and ride and improve your fitness. For that matter, i rather spend the money on a bike that would inspire me to ride more and look forward to the next ride when i just finish one. Whether a 1990's bike inspire you more or the latest 2023 bike is entirely up to individual.

[@mikenarayan5622]

If it aint broke dont fix it.

[@daniellarson3068]

KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid)

[@JaredMorris1]

Words to live by!

[@roddas26]

Disc brakes in the wet just work better for most people.

[@jackfrost838]

He used to rave on and on and on about drinking sugar. Saw one clip and blocked him from then on.