Is Focal truly HI-End? Lets take a look!

[@michaelharmsworth9243]

These were discontinued in the early/mid 2000s, so it's no surprise that they're similar to what you used in the 90s! It would be far more interesting if someone submitted a current pair of Focal models for you to look at (where flax and beryllium drivers are used). Crossover quality would still be 'cheesy' though!

[@joenovak6393]

100% correct as need to send in the current models. Flax and Beryllium drivers.

[@michaeloconnor9465]

90% of the speakers sent in are from 20 years ago, I would like to see more up to date speakers that people actually buy today.

[@OMGERRORWTF]

Are my shape 65 garbage too lol 💀 I got them for like 325 after repairs

[@ovlov245]

Thing is , modern means cheap as modern day means make money! DON'T BE DELUDED BY ADVERTISING! Thing is , as a package Focal S O U N D S amazing! Buy cheap used ones and love them for particular listening

[@stephenyoud6125]

@@michaeloconnor9465 The "upgraded" Klipsch Mark 2 models are recent and still needed fixing, but then again they ARE STILL Klipsch !

[@soune4526]

love your tech talks over upgrades anyday! cheers to sharing knowledge

[@hudo]

This is very old speaker, would be great to see how some new high end model measures, like Kanta or Sopra, do you get anything for the money:)

[@dannyrichie9743]

I just work on whatever people send in.

[@topside3]

Would be cheaper to fly Danny to my house than send him my Sopras :)

[@redstarwraith]

Danny, I shall bully you until you release The Bully!!! 😅

[@veritasfan11]

this guy knows nothing about speakers focal are great speakers.

[@coldfinger459sub0]

For that price I would just purchase your NX-Treme and build my own far superior speaker.

[@ClassifiedBrief]

I agree and I have the nx otica and stereo triple servo subs. You can't just build the nx otica or nx treme - you need subs as they are designed to work with subs, preferably his subs as the open baffle really complements each other well. My setup was better than any room I heard, including the 1 million dollar rooms, at axpona 2023. That being said nx otica and stereo triple servo subs with my own crazy capacitor, wire, inductor, resistor upgrades your looking at 14-15,000. Now when it smokes the 350,000 Wilson's I heard it's a steal. However, its "expensive" compared to this upgrade.

[@carlosoliveira-rc2xt]

@@ClassifiedBrief The Wilson XVX is a better speaker in every way. I've auditioned high five figure speakers 30 years ago and even though they were a flagship, they sounded like absolute garbage and I purchased them nonetheless. They sounded much much, much better in my home with as usual, carefully chosen components. My point being that often expensive speakers are like thoroughbred horses and need TLC to perform at a high level.

[@ClassifiedBrief]

@@carlosoliveira-rc2xt I've heard the speakers and I'll take my nx otica and stereo triple servo subs. I have better internal wire, better caps, better resistors, better inductors. This is a fact I've seen their crossovers.

[@carlosoliveira-rc2xt]

@@ClassifiedBrief Your drivers are not even in the same league and frankly cheap in this context. Yes they punch above their weight class but not that much. I don't see how you can tell you have better caps as Wilson caps are custom and you would have no way to evaluate them. I've done evaluations with caps and listening to them for intrinsic properties (depth, height etc.) as well as reactive properties (performance with specific speakers) and it takes a lot of time and work. Peeking at a label on a cap is like judging hot sauce by licking the bottle. I like Danny's speakers but not nearly as much as the XVX or my own custom mid six figure speakers. Cheers and happy listening!

[@ClassifiedBrief]

@@carlosoliveira-rc2xt because I've listened to the xvx and it's a great speaker but it's very much a box spesker and thst is obvious. The caps I can only tell from listening to theirs but I wired my speskers with 8tc occ with a rope thru them using all wtb silver solder. Duelund caps, vcap odam, miflex, all foil inductors, all path audio resistors... The stuff they use is so inflated! Their caps are in house made metalized polyprop on the mids and woofer and wow they used a in house made film cap on the tweeter. Paper come drivers sound much more natural but you have to keeo inventing the wheel to justify a 30x markup on the cost of production. The devil is in the crossover of the drivers and you seem like a smart guy and I know you know that. Drivers matter to their intrinsic frequency and problematic areas with ringing will show there then it's all about driver matching and the crossover. You can go to the store and buy the most expensive steak in the country (aka the driver) but a half decent cook will make a good product but leave lots on the table with their good but price concuousconcious seasoning. Take the mid grade steak to a world famous chief (danny ) and use absolutely premium ingredients (crossover) and you will be way farther ahead. Go ahead and tell me ur taking top steak and good cook at dinner versus mid grade steak with a world famous cook.

[@HellBound-v4t]

These have the drivers they had 20 years ago :D Its because the speakers are 20 years old or more :D

[@davidtomsett]

Manufactures are crafty, they use cheap crossover parts that are inside the box, if they were all visible then we may think twice about buying them.

[@corfreaky]

i have focal 1027BE so i hope you have a kit for that but if not I'd have to figure how to get it to you ... oh and a set of old Paradigm monitor7 v1... just to see how good they could be improved on.

[@christopherspiro9857]

Hi, can you do a Focal theva 1 ?

[@willbrink]

Never liked the sound of Focal, and found the ringing sounded like two pans being banged together. Not heard all models, but what I heard didn't leave me impressed. More looks then sonic goodness to my ears.

[@jasonme3557]

I use to agree but with the right amp. They really do very well. I have a simple low end pair of Chora 806 but running an integrated amp the cost 3k and wow. Not to shabby.

[@Ctripp2448]

Every focal I have heard is bright and fatiguing.

[@mesonto]

That was maybe true generations back. It no longer is.

[@Ctripp2448]

@@mesonto disagree. I am talking about the newer models. I have not heard any of the older models. The kanta and sopra are bright and not accurate. Revel is the much more accurate neutral speaker. Much better to my ears than focal

[@mesonto]

@@Ctripp2448 to each their own, I simply don't have that problem with them, those models in particular and the Utopias are just accurate and detailed. But it's based on the components you have in your whole setup as well, who knows with an all solid-state system they may be too detailed for some people's ears. But I would never say they were not accurate.

[@ClassifiedBrief]

My nx otica and stereo triple servo subs sounded better than any speaker at axpona 2023 to myself and my buddy. This included the few 1 million dollar rooms. Danny knows his stuff. Incredible crossover guru and speaker designer.

[@RyKoMedia]

Yea only Danny knows what good speakers sound like

[@ClassifiedBrief]

@@RyKoMedia no but the only one who can give you a kit to compete at that top dog level for pennies on the dollar when compared.

[@ferroussphinx]

You saying like a million us dollars?

[@ClassifiedBrief]

@@ferroussphinx yes 1 million USD

[@bionicbob1285]

too bad he had no speakers at axpona. Hard to buy a speaker you cant listen to before you buy it.

[@mcgjohn22]

interesting video. Am not familiar with this particular model, but the resonating tweeter you mentioned I have heard in other brands. I am only good for about 3-4 minutes listening time with a tweeter like that. Its enough to drive you out of the listening position in short order. Was just up at Axpona. Heard the Grand utopias; 140k/pair, not my cup of tea sonically. One thing is quite clear; Wilson has sure bashed the door down for everyone else to break through that 100K+ price barrier for a pair of speakers. Seems like everyone at the show had a pair of floor models from 100K to 200K+.

[@RennieAsh]

Focal seems to have a tendency to make other speakers sound "boxy" due to the focals wide dispersion tweeter, and possibly that added brilliance due to some not as clean spectral decay. I listen at quite low levels and it's quite nice on a lot of material. That being said I probably still prefer other speakers as once you listen more, the smoother more accurate speaker still has all the details.

[@dangerzone007]

If the music is boring blame the producer not the speakers.

[@yttean98]

Danny, in the past you failed or didn't want to explain how you 'voice' your speakers, the top video is an example of how Focal engineers voice their speakers differently from yours. Now is the right time/occasion you explain your philosophy on how you voice your speakers in some detail. To me, that's fundamental to speakers' design philosophy.

[@dannyrichie9743]

Their speakers are not "voiced" like you might think they are. Is allowing a little bit of cone break up part of the voicing? Is diffraction from the baffle shape part of the voicing? They just calculate some values, figure out how cheap they can make it and send it out the door. So discussion regarding what you asked for can be found here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/mmfQY52Ah8ikaaM

[@barneyohara467]

Mr. Tan.. How do you think speakers should be 'voiced'? Or do you even know what you are talking about?

[@yttean98]

@@barneyohara467 I suggest you do more reading.

[@barneyohara467]

@@yttean98 like what... i'm asking?

[@barneyohara467]

@@yttean98 helllLLLLOOOoooo????? do you know how to 'voice'? maybe you're a foney

[@GavinMarkable]

We buy gear on how they sound..the quality of components used and measurement s is secondary if the sound is fabulous!

[@dannyrichie9743]

Those things are indicators of how the speaker will sound.

[@eggshellskullrule7971]

That’s too romantic of a stand you have there.

[@Smood47]

Old / entry level speakers, big surprise

[@MrRocktuga]

I can never judge the final results without listening to the speaker before and after, but there are a few generic things to point out. Focal (as any other well-known loudspeaker brand) didn’t make these loudspeakers by accident. I’m confident that there was a lot of research (both with objective data and listening tests) before the final product, with tweaks in between. I’ll assume that most buyers loved the loudspeaker, or they wouldn’t pay their asking price for it. Can the same design be improved? I’d say that it can be changed and end up being more pleasant to some listeners/owners, and by that alone, there’s a value in the modification (I wouldn’t necessarily call it an upgrade all over the board without hearing both versions, as frequency response linearity is the aim of any studio monitoring system, but not all people like to listen to them. And even the main and most well regarded studio monitors manufacturers aim for a linear response, while the best ones allow the end user to fine tune the frequency response (mainly with DSP these days), because not all studios acoustics or sound engineers enjoy the same in-room response (and we’re talking about studios, not living rooms with untreated walls all around). I would certainly invest on something like a MiniDSP FLEX pre-amp with FIR filters and Dirac Live before I replace any crossover parts inside the loudspeaker. I’d also argue that changing the original design of the loudspeaker doesn’t add up to the resale value of it (I stay away from any modified product, as “upgrade” doesn’t mean the same for everybody). Selling the loudspeaker if I didn’t like the sound and buying another would be my chosen path, but if I really loved how they look or had any other emotional attachment, I’d turn them into active (using external crossovers with DSP and external amplification). If I ever wanted to go back, it would be as easy as connecting the original crossover again. But that’s how I see things, and. I do understand that not all people have the knowledge to go there.

[@dannyrichie9743]

If you want to suck the life out of the music then a Mini DSP or similar products are for you. If you want improved performance then the passive upgrade is by far the solution. You are also correct in that Focal did not use these cheesy parts by accident. They used them for their low cost.

[@1byte4]

Why would you ask if there lowest end consumer speakers are hi-end. of course not. At least check out one of the BE series.

[@jfritzy4358]

Anybody that thinks companies like Focal, KEF, Revel, etc. have the corner on smart engineers, research, and testing should attend a DIY speaker builder event. Ranges from beginner level to highly experienced DIY'ers. Of course, they use drivers that in many cases big companies use. The difference is the DIY implementation, craftmanship, and ultimate sound quality. There are always multiple examples of sound quality crushing big name company speakers.

[@brunorivademar5356]

I'm 31 and I can't even hear 17k anymore. I'm actually jealous lol

[@logotrikes]

You're lucky Bruno. I'm 76 and after a lifetime of heavy engineering I can barely hear above 5k. Nevertheless I still love my 2 channel stereo set up...

[@Jammerk40]

I have a pair of Phase Technology PC 80's bookshelf speakers that need new drivers but can't get them anymore! Is there a woofer that I could use in these cabinets that would work fine with no issues?

[@logotrikes]

I don't think speaker manufacturers do themselves any favours by skimping on crossover parts, but the chain from manufacture, shipping, wholesale, retail et al forces makers to cut corners wherever possible, and the hidden things are easier to skimp on. Can't blame them. They can't avoid being driven by commercial imperatives, so this is why they offshore the manufacture. Therefore a speaker made in France must be more expensive when compared to the same speaker made in China, all else being equal. This should be obvious even at a casual glance, and it must be SO tempting to have stuff made offshore, provided the QC is up to snuff. Nowadays so much esoterica is made in China, there is no longer any shame attached to your beloved high-end speakers having being made there. It means we the consumers get a product at a cost that was previously out of our grasp. So, sure, I'm all for buying a speaker made in China, although a Focal made in France still has the cred, even if I have to pay a bit more. I'm very keen on buying a pair of Kanta No2's which I think are made in France. Maybe not, but I'll probably only know when I get my hands on them. I'm still expecting cheesy crossovers though, can't expect miracles...

[@michaelmiller473]

Boy, I would love to have you guys go over and fix the sound on my 24 year old Sonus Faber Amati Homage speakers, they cost 20k back in 1999, mostly from the wood work I would imagine, take care!

[@ferroussphinx]

20 thousand American dollars?

[@michaelmiller473]

Yeah, at the end of there run they were around $23k great speakers, I own a 100k system, so they fit very nicely!

[@dariuszsalamon9441]

just enjoy them as they are lol

[@michaelmiller473]

@@dariuszsalamon9441 yeah I will, when you get older you have many regrets in life, but buying the Sonus Faber Amati's wasn't one of them, enjoy your system 👍

[@Nonsense62365]

That’s a very old Focal Loudspeaker from the 1990’s?

[@chrispicquet733]

I love old school JM Lab/Focal Stuff.not impressed with the newer stuff.

[@hometheaterjoe9489]

So spend $4,500 on speakers and then spend another 1k to make them sound right? Definitely staying away from Focal

[@ford1546]

Hello. You say that there is a slight bump around 4khz? If I had sent you a speaker and paid a lot of money, I would not have accepted it! If you're going to make a new speaker crossover, you might as well go all the way and not halfway!

[@rikardekvall3433]

Badly designed driver, from start?

[@ford1546]

@@rikardekvall3433 You can often fix a lot of those by using even more crossover parts.

[@rikardekvall3433]

@@ford1546 Yes, I also think so. But Danny said in the video that he already had used more parts to correct and I guess, using more would raise price to much, maybe. But as he always say, to many parts in the signal way, is not a good way.

[@ford1546]

@@rikardekvall3433 What do you think of speaker brand SEAS? My friend and I have a lot of experience with SEAS. on the 2-way speaker I made, I had to use 15 crossover parts. I looking for the best possible sound and the flattest possible frequency. Yes, seas are durable and good-looking speakers, but not the easiest speakers to make good sound with.

[@rikardekvall3433]

@@ford1546 Great choices, but only a bit expensive. But you get what you pay for. Quality. Also Troels Gravesen use a lot of parts to his SEAS diy’s. Crossover parts are expensive so to use SB Accustics which doesn’t need so muck parts, might be a good way for affordable speakers. Keep up the good work!

[@Atheistic007]

There's nothing worse than a speaker that sounds congested/cloudy.

[@AllboroLCD]

Theres some really in depth factory tour vids on focal. Watching the level of care and detail they put into making these units, not to mention the "burn in" sheds they keep out back for finished product is truly impressive. Im totally shocked by these revelations, why would they put so much effort into the build process, just to perform the classic move of skimping on the damn x-overs!?!?

[@dannyrichie9743]

They don't use any top level parts even in their top models.

[@RyKoMedia]

​@@dannyrichie9743 isnt it more about how drivers/xovers are implemented rather than how expensive the drivers are?

[@ClassifiedBrief]

​@@RyKoMediamost definitely is. Crossover design and parts are far #1

[@AllboroLCD]

@@dannyrichie9743 And yet the drivers are essentially hand assembled. I dont get it.

[@dannyrichie9743]

@@AllboroLCD To some degree all drivers are hand assembled. Most of their newer stuff is outsourced to the Philippines or China.

[@deputy3690]

Focals are way overpriced to the point where it is just robbery.

[@AudioGuyBrian]

I would love to see you get your hands on some of these $250,000 monsters that you see at the HiFi shows. I can't believe how much some companies charge for their 3 or 4 way speakers. I guess they use wood from Noah's Ark or something. Because no way, do their drivers and crossovers justify the prices they charge.

[@net_news]

high-end prices are not connected to manufacturing costs in any way is pure marketing, product placement

[@jamiesmith6838]

Noah's ark. 😅😅😅

[@tobiasjames6949]

Wilson Audio comes to mind, huge;y complicated boxes with good drivers from Scan Speak (like sub $1000 each driver for tweeter etc), however not expensive compared to what they the entire speaker at, shame though as their larger models have humongous spacing between tweeter and mid-ranges/midwoofers - a massive no no IMO, closer spacing the better.

[@carlosoliveira-rc2xt]

Go ahead and make a speaker for $10,000 that bests the Wilson XVX, I'll buy it. Let me know when my pair is finished. I want it in Porsche Red, thanks.

[@carlosoliveira-rc2xt]

@@tobiasjames6949 You don't know what you're talking about.

[@turkandproud69]

GR is a legend.if only he was located in aus in the state. I would definitely go to him for all my speaker internal upgrades

[@kevintomb]

What Danny calls "Cheesy" or "Low end" parts, are actually the normal stuff. The high priced stuff is simply a waste of money and makes VERY LITTLE change, especially for the money. Otherwise ALL speaker brands would use "NON CHEESY" parts to get this "Far" better sound and beat all the other brands..... It simply does not exist.

[@dannyrichie9743]

Nothing could be further from the truth.

[@RennieAsh]

I wonder if they'll ever be able to fix the fatal flaw of nearly every coil speaker using an iron core xD

[@Clint_the_Audio-Photo_Guy]

Manufacturers will never put top dollar components in the crossovers unless they are just BIG money. Even then, they don't always. If this were produced today, it would be way more money too. The dollar just isn't worth anything now. People still think $3K is an "expensive" speaker, but most of the time now it gets you a vinyl wrapped MDF tower with some cheap parts in it. If you can use and enjoy it for 25 years, then you got your value out of it, but don't expect ne plus ultra sound out of them.

[@danielwoodard680]

Excellent tutorial and training video!

[@audiotechguy]

Just completed my NX-Treme build and they sound absolutely “Fantastic” Danny’s voice lol

[@mikehanks1399]

Ya know, I still don't get it. I mean, I GET it, speaker companies are going to try and save money any way they can. But, I would expect that from inexpensive speakers. Focal speakers are not inexpensive. Given their purchasing power, why compromise on the internals? Time and time again GR-Research exposes the crappy parts inside most of these expensive speakers and the terrible sound that results. I have a pair of Focal bookshelf speakers and they are simply gorgeous. And while they sound good to me, I'm wondering how much better they WOULD sound if Danny got his hands on them. I bought them because of their aesthetics, the killer deal I got, and the Focal name and reputation. I wonder what the price point is that will guarantee quality parts throughout? I am becoming increasingly disillusioned with audio products, especially speakers, where the rather high price you pay is in no way an assurance of quality. Instead, it's just so much marketing hype.

[@karlcotleanu486]

That is precisely why, when I decide to get a new pair of speakers I am going to purchase a kit from Danny. Unfortunately, when you buy commercially made completed speakers you don’t often get what you pay for.

[@logotrikes]

A well-considered response Mike. I guess makers can fudge the internals expecting that no-one will delve inside or notice. They're driven by marketing imperatives after all so 10 cents saved here and there must help their bottom line. Perhaps much research goes into how little can they spend constructing a crossover that will give a palatable result. My newly ordered Kanta's were AUD9,000 delivered which is a lot of coin for me, but I'm not expecting wonders in the crossover department....

[@mikehanks1399]

The problem is the crossover affects how a speaker sounds. I'm sure you would be willing to pay 9050 or even 9100 to get first class internals. And if Focal marketed the extra cost with the fact their insides were superior to their competitor's, you and I both know that guys like us would by the Focals over any other in a heartbeat. I just don't get it.

[@ford1546]

Say you have a 200 uf electrolytic capacitor in series. Yes polypropylene is MUCH better but MUCH larger in size and MUCH more expensive. If you have the capacitor in parallel with the bass when you have 2.1-way speakers, 2-way and a bass, it is more acceptable to use an electrolytic capacitor.

[@dannyrichie9743]

That electrolytic cap will have negative effects even in the bass section.

[@ford1546]

@@dannyrichie9743 I'm talking about electrolytic capacitors not being as bad to use in parallel as they are in series with a speaker. The best is to always use polypropylene capacitors.

[@randywilliams4325]

Too poor to buy speakers like these . Watching Danny pick these apart is educational . I will be buying kits from him soon .

[@cobar5342]

You will not regret that I have the X-Statics and they are great - as good as I have heard anywhere

[@bhupendrapatel9686]

It's nice to have higher end speakers on your show

[@douglascurl5581]

A flat frequency response does not equal a good sounding speaker.

[@dannyrichie9743]

Correct, but it does equal accuracy, and the parts quality upgrade alone equals much better sound.

[@mikeandkidsgoodfoodandgood3467]

Those are 20 year old models

[@johnsmith-i5j7i]

Do you use Klippel Near-field Scanner (NFS)?

[@dannyrichie9743]

No.

[@melaniezette886]

Disappointing I still have French small manufacturer 3 way speaker from 1990.I changed caps, the filter is hand wired with good components, big air inductance only... It's possible to use good if not excellent components without breaking the bank. This speakers

[@melaniezette886]

Uses 2 Focal and 2 Seas drivers, it was expensive but not luxury priced, a real investment. When to focal, the labor and taxes in France are very expensive, that's what you pay, if you look at their made in China speakers they are very completive price

[@melaniezette886]

Jmlab Focal was created by an engineer, today it's driven by shareholders as all companies, they want their +15% roi that's what you also pay.

[@jibberjabber6919]

Are there any retail speaker makers that use quality parts?

[@dannyrichie9743]

Yeah, some.

[@jibberjabber6919]

@@dannyrichie9743 Any recommendations please if any?

[@seanb3303]

Instead of companies using all these cheap crossover parts in the signal path…i think I would prefer a first order filter and keep the signal path and phase clean…and give up some accuracy

[@dannyrichie9743]

It is really hard to get drivers to work well with first order filters.

[@seanb3303]

@@dannyrichie9743agreed. I hope you get a Jim Thiel design at some point. First order crossovers with tons of parts to flatten the response.

[@davidburg558]

But how do they sound,before and after?

[@wwlittlejOfficial]

I've asked for this type of quantification of many speakers, before and after, the graphs look amazing but i still wanna hear them! Hard to actually do tho, other than the source track being played and Danny records the before and after of each speaker, then let's u compare the source track with the recordings, so u can hear the differences. He did that with his LGKs I think and I was just floored, though not an A and B type evaluation. but I know Danny's mindset; he likes a clear flat speaker, which is crazy cause he's making magic out of a range of speakers old and new from dufferent price points. I'm confident what he does sounds great.

[@toby9999]

Short of swapping out drivers and modifying the enclosures, he can only work with what he has, right?

[@kyron42]

I prefer paper cones

[@RaySqw785]

MKP Axon 400v 5% aren't really what we could call an average quality cap, delund makes wax caps for 50 time dearer and bigger, now Mkp caps for 68mf which to be effective would be at least 400V rated, would be huge, big big cap, and as low freq cross part irrelevant, big values poly makes low freqs slow and sound hazy, dull, would rather place any bipolar electrolytics (tants are best), far better Mechanicly, best time response, space, so your assement doesn't really fit my experience about crossover!

[@dannyrichie9743]

The Axon caps are indeed a budget level cap and we never use 400 volt rated caps. The lower voltage caps tend to sound better.

[@RaySqw785]

@@dannyrichie9743 since ESR gets lower when voltage is highter can't see where it would sound bettah, axon aren't expensive, but aren't budget cap either, anyway you are right B&W or Polk which put lower quality parts on dearer device sound so much bettah! thx

[@dannyrichie9743]

@@RaySqw785 The film in between the layers is typically thicker with higher voltage rated caps and it tends to color the signal more.

[@Nonsense62365]

Also it’s a very ugly Loudspeaker! At $4500. 23 - 33 years ago it was very overpriced! It’s a POC! (Piece of crap)

[@UsmanDar92]

I have a deal in place to buy spme focal aria 948s in laced black. Brand new €2k. Are they worth the price or shall i consider others?

[@scottlowell493]

Always hated focal tweeters, especially tioxid. i built a kit with those drivers and that tweeter went off like a fire alarm. It wasn't "more detailed". it was etched and hard sounding.

[@andallxr]

unfortunately many of us did not listen original model and moreover there is only one person who lives with it and knows how it sounds now after all these tricks so it would be great to pin the owner's feedback/review at the top 0.02$

[@JimP.-qb6ox]

I’ve spoken to Kent at Pass Labs when I had my Mini Utopias. He mentioned they were one of the flattest speakers they had in there based on the overall response of the speaker. I think Focal sort of knows what they are doing so I’m not sure I agree completely with this review. Anything can be improved, some aspects of the descriptions are incorrect and that tweeter is anything bright. Makes me wonder. There are ton of reasons why Focal is up near the top of the food chain and why hosts of speaker companies use their drivers and since focal designs everything for the cabinets to the drivers in house, Ide love to hear a direct debate on how they get it wrong. 😂 not selling my Focal Nova Utopia BE “anytime” soon, oh and let’s take a close look at their xover networks...lol

[@stuartdarling1620]

I think the higher you go up through focal ranges the more likely you are to have better parts. I have the solo 6 in my studio and they sound really nice but I'm very interested in seeing if the NX studio monitor design sounds even better

[@dannyrichie9743]

@@stuartdarling1620 The NX Studio is in a different league.

[@dannyrichie9743]

Pop them open and look inside. You'll find most of the same budget level parts in them that they use in everything else. They are far, far away from the top of the food chain.

[@stuartdarling1620]

@@dannyrichie9743 that's why I messaged you a while back about them. I'm saving.

[@johnshaw359]

Reviewers would likely recommend a sleepy sounding amp for synergy in a "leaning tower of pizza" type frequency correction.

[@bingdong8571]

Unfortunately my brain is hardwired to always go against whoever's winning so thanks for the focal ripping. Bandwagons dont mean much.

[@dennisbohner6876]

I think that you may find the capacitor work done in this vid to be fascinating. The focus isn't about capacitors but the research is remarkable. kzbin.info/www/bejne/bKbZioajetOanZo

[@drc97086]

It seems almost all brands of loudspeakers use crap in the crossovers. Build your own, there are way too many quality kits out there. 😀

[@davidtennien39]

Found out a long time ago the money means nothing regarding sound quality with speakers.

[@joppepeelen]

please do more maggies :) would be interesting !

[@allenvaughan1]

So I guess my L110's are junk. Any hope? (BTW, I enjoy your videos!)

[@stephenjamieson3063]

These are over 20 years old so naturally they are using the same cones they used 20 years ago lol.

[@TitofBee]

nice explanations Thanks a lot for your work. Any hope to learn all this technical work somewhere? thx🎉

[@kyleo2113]

How does phase look? That is another very important factor in the performance.

[@stuartdarling1620]

Danny you should get two woofers one with poor TS specs (poor motor strength etc) and one of yours and do a side by side listening video with both of the EQd flat switching back and forth to show the differences in sound quality when you have a woofer with stored energy and one that doesnt. I think that would be helpful for many people to observe

[@daviddrake6875]

Wow! The Sony CS-5 charts in my opinion looked a lot better

[@Roosville1]

I have to ask, how relevant is a steady state frequency plot, or even the waterfall plot. A more up-to-date approach would be a SystemID or SysID test, given the A-D quality that we have and the long memory of high bandwidth high bit capture then SysID would be more relevant. I applaud the general work, but frequency response in this day and age seems bronze age in approach. SysID presents a very long random sample, which is captured many times via A-D and then averaged, normalised and compaired to the original. Being a complex signal combining an array of mixed frequency and amplitude, all the cross modulation and compression effects pop out. Used if for quite a few years now, mainly in amplifier work.

[@dannyrichie9743]

No, averaging measurements like that mask problems and really don't tell you what's going on.

[@cobar5342]

Great video Danny. With such a well-known brand one would expect much better product

[@AnotherAnonymousMan]

These are 20 year old speakers... I'm mot sure any speaker manufacturer today should be judged by what they made decades ago. 😕

[@dannyrichie9743]

This isn't a judgement on the manufacturer, it is an upgrade for this model.

[@avneravi1927]

I think you miss the point of tonal balance - a lot of speaker's manufacturer do change a little bit the speaker's tonal balance because it does sounds better the way they've set it up There is that BBC presence region which does contribute to a more relaxed presentation - see how Wilson's audio speakers in stereophile measured you'll see that BBC deep there as well.

[@dannyrichie9743]

That is not the case here. A typical BBC dip is a softening in the 1kHz to 2kHz range (typically). These speakers (from the factory) not only had a peak there, but a resonance issue as well. There is a lot more to these upgrades than just tonal balance.

[@frankkahlweiss9696]

Hi Dany, I love your pod casts and I learn a lot from your posts. You often change the bi-wiring binding posts in your projects, what do you think about bi-wiring or three-wiring? best regards, Frank

[@dannyrichie9743]

You are better off using a single good quality cable.

[@mfkhometheater7742]

I was never impressed with Focal. Good video!

[@bionicbob1285]

No speaker is hi-end. Most use off the shelf drivers (some with a small change to claim proprietary) that includes GR research. You pay for the brand name and the cabinet finish in most cases. Danny has the advantage of viewing every crossover and cabinet he reviews.

[@dannyrichie9743]

Actually, I design most of our drivers and they are 100% and completely built exclusively for us.

[@net_news]

Focal is mid-fi

[@AN-ce1nd]

You done any Electra Be’s?

[@dannyrichie9743]

Some of the same budget level parts are used.

[@AN-ce1nd]

Great, throwing mine away! Lol

[@Nihil1st1347]

Partly I got, why You use an iron core inductor this time. But not entirely. Would an air core inductor for this application be too large or too expensive?

[@dannyrichie9743]

Laminated core inductors have their place below 200Hz.

[@thomasperina2990]

Hello Danny: I've been a sub of your for many years + an audiophile as far back as I can remember. Your definition of sound accuracy is on the money. IMHO there are many people that still don't get what the term accuracy is, a ringing driver, + a detailed description of the different components that are mounted on a board. There are many viewers that couldn't tell the difference between a $200.00 Radio Shack speaker & $ 22,000.00 Revel 4 way speaker. Love your channel & God Bless, TMP from N.J.

[@1mctous]

Even for those of us whose hearing response curve looks like AM radio, treble problems reflect back into the midrange and change the texture. I'm pretty sure that I'd notice the 20 KHz resonance and the 3-4 KHz hash. BTW I use Art Blakey drum recordings to evaluate treble, especially the crash and hi-hat cymbals.

[@kyron42]

Are polypropylene caps still popular or is it something else that's better and cheaper?

[@paulb4661]

Polystyrene and polytrafluoroethylene are better, but hardly practical, then there are variations of metallization type and actual thin metal film with usually polypropylene dielectric ones and a range of oil dipped ones ie paper in oil, on the other end - metallized polyester and especially bipolar electrolytics are cheaper.

[@By_Rant_Or_Ruin]

And this is why I never buy high end. I can make it better myself for budget. It has always amazed me at how easy it is for people to be indoctrinated into the advertising. It is like talking to someone about our global climate emergency or trying to get someone to understand that the bible is not "proof" of god or anything else in there. Advertising and demanding attention of ignorant or/and desperate people works.

[@analogueman5364]

Most people can't or don't want to build their own speakers. And, if I may say, what makes you a better speaker builder than a commercial manufacturer with years of experience? What do you know they don't? Thats rehtorical by the way, just thoughts.

[@By_Rant_Or_Ruin]

@@analogueman5364 You sound very hurt. Or perhaps an addict? Maybe you are being paid to schill for the industry? But your response is not normal. I was simply stating where I am in my life and my dislike for the advertising that people like you fall for every day. My speaker is better for me because I know what went into it. I can build it to my room. Any number of reasons makes me a better builder than a corporate whore. Once you get help, maybe then pipe up?

[@carlosoliveira-rc2xt]

You're hilarious.

[@jchborg90277]

Too narrow a niche to warrant a vid. The Focal model rarely seen.

[@dannyrichie9743]

The customer wanted me to shoot one on it. So I tried to make it more of a tech talk style. I hope you guys liked it anyway.

[@great100m]

I find it hard to believe that Focal would skimp in a speaker this expensive if it really mattered to the sound quality.

[@dannyrichie9743]

Not surprised at all. We see it all the time. For Focal this is even common in their higher end models.

[@logotrikes]

@@dannyrichie9743 I do wonder myself Danny. Just pulled the trigger on a pair of Kanta 2's. I watch GR-Research a lot because I find his crossover dives interesting. I've remarked elsewhere that Focal, like any other manufacturer, is driven by cost constraints, profit margin, R&D etc, and I'm sure they will consider using a part which costs 10 cents less than another part if little to no difference/advantage can be determined. Applied to a pair of crossovers, there may be worthwhile savings in total. Helps the bottom line and if the difference in tonality or dynamics of other desired quality is marginal and unlikely to be picked up by your average listener, then this very fine balancing act will pay dividends, and yes, they would go for it. Where to draw the line is a big part of that high-wire act, so maybe, hopefully Focal might err on the side of caution and spend the appropriate amount for the crossover parts and not a cent less... That mobs like GR-Research exist at all is testimony to the fact that the maker WILL skimp wherever he can reasonably get away with it... Before the Kanta's I was super keen on the Q Acoustics Concept 500's. Solid, very heavy at 42 Kgs, excellent for my 2 channel needs, and made in China. Beautifully finished and raved about by many. For me in Australia they were AUD 5,500 delivered. The Kanta's I managed to get a deal at AUD 9,000 delivered, so quite a bit more expensive. Maybe the Kanta's are in a different league, I don't know, but they're certainly more expensive because they're made in France all else being equal. If they were made in China, would they be half the price...??? We'll see when they arrive....

[@japerlm8150]

Hey eVeryBody

[@michaeloconnor9465]

The cones are a fibre glass sandwich. They are not just poly cones. When you do the waterfall chart, show a large range of frequency, and you will see you have not taken out all of the ringing. You are cherry-picking. Audio science review pulled your waterfall chart to pieces.

[@markwilding3828]

Have you ever built a pair of speakers? I am not defending Danny, but I always suspect that criticisms along the lines of "somebody else said this about you" usually indicate that the one making it has no personal experience and therefore nothing of any substance to contribute. "Audiophile Science Review" is a publication, not an Individual. Publications have all kinds of motivations for saying things. The first that springs to mind is how Danny does a pretty good job exposing their advertisers as selling overpriced, underperforming junk.

[@dannyrichie9743]

Sorry, but what I am doing is industry standard, and the guys at ASR don't know how to read a graph.

[@analogueman5364]

Anyone with experience and understanding ignores ASR. If they're so good they should make they're own hifi.

[@ChicagoRob2]

The only thing ASR does is tell everyone how great ChiFi DACs are, despite many of them sound like crap(ask me how I know).

[@michaeloconnor9465]

@Danny Richie Don't get me wrong, I like what you do, and I always watch your videos. I would love to see what goes into the crossover of the KEF R11 and how it could be improved. I would like to see the difference between the drivers in the Q series, R series, and the Reference Series, and if the bass drivers are all the same. I would imagine the Q series and R series drivers are basically the same. It is impossible to find a picture of KEF crossovers of their newer speakers. It's like they block any images, which makes me ask what have they got to hide?

[@BostonMike68]

I can build a reference speaker for what they charge for those white van speakers. I learned a lot what not to do when designing a speaker and my speakers have improved a lot from what I learned what parts and wire solder everything I use now is quality I might not use the big reds but I use above average caps . He knows what he is talking about. I know he's trying to make money. I wouldn't put money into a whack speaker but I learned a lot so I thank him because I finishing my masterpiece right now

[@rwjazz1299]

Furniture speakers. No thanks

[@toby9999]

Why not?

[@jocool7370]

These aren't current models, right? They're from about 2006, maybe?

[@rosswarren436]

From audioreview, circa 2000: WEAKNESS: Lower midrange / upper bass colorations: Lack of dynamic contrast in this area, probably due to crossover problems which are apparently fixed in a mark 2 version out now. The treble may sound a bit shut-in if paired with wrong equipment. Overall a very good value. Needs pairing with a high quality amp with a solid power supply, (due to low impedance dips and relatively large phase swings). Paired with the right equipment this speaker will sound very good, otherwise it is likely to reveal every weakness of the equipment used. In conclusion: If your amp is up to the job, try it out (you'll need at least 100 Wpc)

[@wwlittlejOfficial]

That explanation about flattening the freq response vs actually cleaning up the audio response was magical. Something I've always believed, I love how Danny agrees that clean audio is better than heavily imbalanced frequency response. I LOVE a flat response, but I really want to hear a comparison of the different x-over components. Also, I don't know much about active x-over designs, and how they differ from passive designs, want to know Danny's input on this issue, can active x-overs sound as good as passive?

[@karlcotleanu486]

I was always curious about the flat response versus parts quality, and now I know. Danny needs to emphasize that more often in his vids just to get the point across to his audience. I have upgraded all the parts in my speakers, and it made a huge difference. Cheese in cheese out, as the saying goes.

[@wwlittlejOfficial]

@@karlcotleanu486 I have a pr of old old Klipsch bookshelves that I know well, they're about 20 years old, and I know the parts quality is crap, lol. I know a little about a little with electronics and I'm thinking, why not upgrade the parts as a project. Did u just find equal value higher quality x-over conponents and add them to a new breadboard?

[@thepracticalaudiophile]

The parts quality was a game changer for the Klipsch rp8000f I own

[@RennieAsh]

@@wwlittlejOfficial you can try to keep the basic specs the same; though there will be some change likely as capacitor esr may be different, and inductor DCR is usually different when people "upgrade" things.

[@ford1546]

Even if a good resistor often has copper pins, then most round resistors often have a round steel jacket around the end of the resistance pin itself, which is molded in. Then the copper leg is attached to it. Inside an electronic devince you can also have magnetic legs on components.

[@RennieAsh]

There's a point when you question how far should we worry. The speaker driver has soldered terminals, the coil leads are covered in some sort of glue that probably isn't "audiophile cable insulator material". The voice coils are standard ofc or ofc coated aluminium etc

[@ford1546]

@@RennieAsh Understood. People need to know why and what is the reason before people can say anything. Coil placement is also important, but something many people do not prioritize or care about. A transformer is 2 coils that are next to each other. Take two crossover coils, one is connected to a loudspeaker and the other to an amplifier with a 4 ohm resistor so that the amplifier does not see a short circuit. you will then hear sound in the speaker when the coils are in the same direction as 15 cm. and closer. If they are next to each other or almost, you will get a relatively loud sound in the speaker element! People need to know why and what is the reason before people can say anything

[@DutchKC9UOD]

Great channel

[@stefanweilhartner4415]

this is where a good class-d amp with an active crossover in the dsp could shine. more control with less resonance and better timing. and potentially cheaper

[@dannyrichie9743]

Not hardly. Most of those amps are more of a novelty, and not for serious listening. Devices like that also do not fix the smearing caused by the cheap internal parts.

[@stefanweilhartner4415]

@@dannyrichie9743 there are no internal parts in a digital active crossover design

[@dannyrichie9743]

@@stefanweilhartner4415 Oh, you mean you want to remove all of the internal parts and replace it with an all digital design. The bottlenecks then become the D/A conversion, analog output stages, additional power supplies, additional amps, more cables, etc.

[@stefanweilhartner4415]

@@dannyrichie9743 you need a power supply nevertheless, two or three channel class-d instead of a mono class-d amp does not really make a huge difference. you use one tpa3255 in mono configuration for the subwoofer and one tpa3255 in dual channel configuration to drive the mid range and tweeter. a dsp with 3 dacs and volume control. with 24bit digital input all on one pcb. and one pcb for the power supply. mounted on one metal plate to put either on the back side of an existing speaker box or inside a separated compartment on a new designed box. this would be the ideal design where the rest of the stereo system would then be pure digital.

[@dannyrichie9743]

@@stefanweilhartner4415 Here is your bottleneck. "a dsp with 3 dacs and volume control." Most of those devices use a DAC, power supply, and analog output stage equal to a CD player from 30 years ago. They can suck the life out of the music. Plus you need more amps, cables etc. You can spend a lot more and have a lot worse sound.

[@franciscosilva6975]

I have those speakers (JMLab Electra 915.1). I have them for more than 20 years! I never thought the sound was really the best but they were a big investment at the time (about 3000EUR) and money doesn't grow on trees :) so I kept them for all these years. Recently I had access to a measurement microphone and measured then with REW. With that measurement I confirmed that my speakers have the same low mids elevation that you found. This low mids excess make the sound mudded and take a lot of resolution from the rest of the sound. Since I can not ear above 10kHz I don't care about the highs ringging... but the mids are really annoying. I tried equalization with JRiver from the correction profile created with REW and the response became much more linear and the mids more controlled with better resolution but the speaker sounds more "thin" and lacks body - also the presentation of voices moves far back a lot. So I have to agree with you, equalization is not the solution because the speaker loses on other areas. I would like to do your upgrade but I live in Portugal... can you ship here? I wonder if its a good investment... maybe should use the money on better speakers. Also, how can the cabinet upgrade you talk about (NoRez) be done? Do you replace the speaker filling foam/wool with the NoRez? Do you have a video with a demonstration? And finally thanks for your videos, I have learned a lot!

[@jasontimothywells9895]

Good day Danny , one thing I do know about the newer Focal speakers are they do not live up to the old Focal sound quality from the earlier times . You rock Danny .

[@scottmackey4182]

They do with Danny’s upgraded crossover setups! Well worth the extra investment.

[@jasontimothywells9895]

@@scottmackey4182 of course Danny makes others crap sound better , I do the same for people and all I know is Danny builds better speakers than the brands that have lost touch with reality. When I get financially better on point I am going to buy a set from Danny and retire from the crap that big companies are providing that need help from a master like Danny . Danny has the wheel , why bother reinventing the wheel when Danny provides the best wheels .

[@stu3232]

Pretty sure these Electra 936 speakers are from about 2004/2005? When Focal was still JMlabs. So nearly 20 years old? Probably not the best representation of what Focal are now and what their current higher end lines are like from the factory.

[@rosswarren436]

Actually he said 915...circa 2000.

[@jasontimothywells9895]

I've listened to a bunch of Focal speakers from the last 10 years and I have been less than impressed. Focal is junk at a high price .

[@ChicagoRob2]

Regarding age, or date of manufacture, some of the best sounding B&W speakers were made in the late ‘70s, early ‘80s. Newer doesn’t mean better.

[@analogueman5364]

​@@jasontimothywells9895 they're not 'junk' they're just not your choice or what you like in a speaker.

[@ThomasL]

Electra range aren't shaped as a straight line like those. As said above, they are 915, and I believe it's the Spectral range, not the Electra. I own a pair of Electra 906's and the 926/936's you're speaking about are shaped the same, but bigger. And by the way, you might got them for 4 500$ new back then, but here in France, these probably did cost 900-1 200€. My Electra 906's were sold for 1 500/1 600€ back then, and you can get a used pair for 450€ nowadays.

[@edgardorivera617]

I love learning. I have some Wharfdale Diamond 11.5 I would love to have you check, but these things are big and heavy. I don't even have the original packaging.

[@bartvanransbeeck1341]

Top job Danny, you are needed , your work will push up the quality to the market....and how much quality is worth. Realy

[@matthewtaylor7355]

Amir at ASR expose Danny's spectral decay selectivity etc... Danny is a bul*shitter supremo

[@gtric1466]

Danny you do amazing work, would be interested how ASR would review your speakers.

[@RennieAsh]

They've reviewed some; one was pretty decent, the other was quite limited in what it could do, and wasn't so well received lol.

[@dannyrichie9743]

Why would I send anything to those guys? They are not reviewers, don't know how to review, don't have a real listening system, don't know how to read measurements, etc.

[@tomthompson7400]

does saying Fo Cal make it better than just a Focal ,, or is it a dealer specific thing ,,, like K nipex ,, ??

[@thomasworrell6853]

Watch the factory tour video for focal.