Is Gnome Doing The Right Thing?

[@MaisistkeinGemuese]

Nicco won't be happy about your secret Gnome Relationship

[@MichaelNROH]

Naah, better cover all bases 🙃

[@mdexterc2894]

​@@MichaelNROH I remember someone on Facebook complaining about KDE looking like Windows 10. I think KDE should have a library of premade customization scripts for popular workflows because KDE is capable of emulating most environments out there

[@Mithferion]

Plot twist is that Nicco uses GNOME as well

[@Daniel-wn5ye]

@@mdexterc2894 True! I would love to have a high quality Windows XP and Windows 7 customization script!

[@Halfdome05]

The lack of good fractional scaling under Gnome is the most disappointing aspect for me, because it is something that I notice in every second in which I use my device.

[@JamesMowery]

100%... it's crazy that we still don't have fractional scaling. Maybe ALL the devs of Gnome use 1080p screens, but... I've moved to the current age where 1440p and 4K are becoming the norm.

[@albatross7]

Meanwhile in Windows you can specify the exact % of scaling lol. Linux is ancient and always lagging behind 😂

[@abstractaxis]

You can use Tweaks to go around with this. If you increase "Font Size" to 1.25, it will be equivalent to 125% scalling To be even neater, you can set a keyboard shortcut to increase/decrease font size. In my case, very useful when switching between the native 1080p monitor of my laptop and an external one Buuuut, I don't think you can set a specific font size per monitor (in case you're using 2 of them simutaneously) 🙃

[@world_reborn1990]

​@@albatross7 nah, but okay

[@JoaquinVacas]

@@albatross7 well... While windows allows you to do that... It's far from perfect. Tiny tiny dialogs, buttons and overall UI elements, blurry ones (even own Windows native apps like some utilities) and broken apps (glitched, overlapping buttons or text) are an issue too on Windows 11 under HiDPI displays with scaling enabled. The only OS that does this right at this moment is macOS.

GNOME has enjoyed (or suffered) from exclusivity for too long. Now that Plasma KDE has the same release schedule as GNOME and, by extension, the same cycle as the major distros, they'll have to get up to date with jsability and stop removing features for no discernable reason or face the reality that these distros will end up switching to KDE

@@Silverblue118 If I install GNOME to any of my relatives, they'll never use the computer. Ever. Now if I install KDE, they'll be comfortable

@@Silverblue118 Have you got actual data to back up your claim? No? Ah, Who would have thought. Your anecdote is as pointless as mine, yours is behind a farce of sentences written as facts when they are just your anecdotal opinion. GNOME is not intuitive because it is unique, it prefers you use the keyboard over the mouse, which is against all lower level (new) users are used to or expect. At least my anecdote is backed by real life experience with people that aren't willing to open a command prompt, unlike yours

[@MichaelNROH]

I strongly disagree with this. From my experience, Gnome tends to be more accepted, simply because it forces users not to expect a Windows experience. E.g. If people see a taskbar (or panel), then there is automatically an assumption that it works the same, and features a similar feature set (e.g. Task Manager). A collective testing environment would be interesting

@@MichaelNROH I agree that it is good to prevent the expectations, but it has two problems: keyboard centered layout that is not user friendly and refusal to implement *basic features* that any user could expect, like fractional scaling or the ability to disable VSync, or basic features that many app developers expect like allowing the developer to select windowing positioning, while KDE allows a mouse centered experience and has these basic features already implemented. I prefer GNOME for me because I use the keyboard more than the mouse (probably because I am used to using computers and Linux since I was a teen like a weirdo) and I don't happen to use any of the apps that suffer from no window positioning, and I have a donkey's years old monitor setup. I personally think Linux needs to have the widest possible audience and GNOME is not helping with less advanced users or new users, unless they have no previous computer experience

@@Silverblue118 It is anecdotal because any person with previous computer experience will be lost in GNOME and will be fighting its keyboard centered design all along. I will concede laptops, cause the new gestures are top notch and encourage you to avoid the mouse and even the keyboard with how good they are

[@charautreal]

Honestly, the GNOME overview and screenshot utility alone are what keeps me on GNOME, but when I tried KDE Plasma, I felt in love with it, but I still miss the overview workflow on GNOME, and spectacle, while more powerful, it's just not as easy as pressing print screen and selecting one of the 3 options. Hopefully Plasma 6 can be better at replicating the GNOME workflow or the GNOME devs stop taking decisions at the speed of the Wayland protocols devs.

[@MichaelNROH]

I think spectacle can provide a much better experience if they make its user interface more consistent. With the selection option, you get a different one that looks more like an overlay, while with every other option, you get the window. Unifying that would already benefit its functionality, since the Window doesn't get in the way when you make several screenshots.

[@chrisxdeboy]

Pretty sure KDE has that sorta thing as an alternative to the main menu.

[@rkvkydqf]

I think KDE added a GNOME-inspired overview as a KWin effect a few years back. As for Spectacle, maybe I didn't configure it to my liking, but it does feel lacking... And the Wayland support is quite fine already, I'm exclusively using it on my T14. Though some artifacts like twitching window shadows do crop up sometimes, though that might as well be the fault of AMD for all I know...

[@fotnite_]

@@rkvkydqf The overview was definitely GNOME inspired, but the re-worked version in Plasma 6 is basically the exact same feature set, minus the dash and plus support for desktop grids.

[@jluquer]

I personally hate blurry apps on gnome. I have a 1440p and for me gnome is quite uncomfortable to use. If I want to code I have a blurry IDE and if I want to game I have to disable fractional scaling or play with weird resolutions. I miss gnome a lot, but for me kde right now works better.

[@MichaelNROH]

I usually set mine to a 100% since for me its perfect that way.

[@jluquer]

@@MichaelNROH on my laptop screen at 100% unfortunately the text looks like little ants and 200% is way too big. With a little patience, better support will come! Thanks for this great video :)

[@abd5139]

Gnome on my 1440p fonts looks a little blurry (just because of the ppi)

[@rulercostax]

Fractional scaling on KDE is not working for me, icons look blurry

[@abd5139]

@@rulercostax on wayland?

[@lolilolplix]

I dunno, if I use vanilla KDE it’s good enough. But with Gnome, so many extensions are a necessity. I’ll stick to KDE. Also: VRR 😜

[@defiik]

perfect is the enemy of the good

I use vanila Gnome (with zero extensions). It just works for me, but eyeing Cosmic. I know it's just "another DE"... but if they keep it tight... year of Rust on the desktops is uppon us :D. Anyhoo, here just to say that I like gnome's approach of moving fast really slow, so you don't have to look back that often. When they will nail it, they will do it in the most simple way.

[@IC3P3]

VRR, Tearing and desktop HDR are really things that make me question the use of GNOME from time to time, but as you said in the video, it feels impossible to get the same workflow on KDE. I test KDE from time to time in a VM, but for me it's especially the touch/mouse pad gestures that make me stay with GNOME as I can't get it "right".

[@legendboyAni]

tray icon is what holding me back.

[@schneensch]

There's an extension for it that works really well, and is updated to work on new GNOME versions right as they release.

[@legendboyAni]

@@schneensch extension name pls

[@MichaelNROH]

I use "AppIndicator and KStatusNotifierItem" It's a proper implementation in my opinion

[@BenderdickCumbersnatch]

@@MichaelNROH Especially since AppIndicator + KStatusNotifierItem protocols are really, really, REALLY bad and unreliable, which is why GNOME dropped official support for them. There has been work on inventing a new protocol but I don't know the status of that.

[@geminightur]

@@MichaelNROH the problem comes when you use BlurMyShell and it gets awful

[@falxie_]

I switched to KDE because of VRR primarily, but they also support setting the RGB range of your monitor for HDMI

[@herzeleid0281]

My personal problem with gnome is how the default apps lack features and when you use something non-gtk it looks awful

[@michadybczak4862]

I had a romance with Gnome 6-7 years ago, when I had it installed along KDE. In the end, I went back to KDE, removed Gnome and didn't watch back. There were too many Gnome issues for me. The developers' attitude is going on my nerves. I just hate the way Gnome develops itself and I don't have any respect for it. Too arrogant approach, combined with utterly stupid decisions, that led to a DE that is gutted from the basic features. For me, Gnome is like a child toy, not a real thing. After years, nothing has changed. Gnome is moving slowly, still lacks of basic features, is unstable and has many usage issues. I can't use it as it is. I would need tons of plugins and those come with a set of various issues. Meanwhile, in KDE, I can replicate Gnome workflow if needed and have so much more. When I see Gnome release notes, I am utterly surprised with how others react. "Oh, how awesome", "brilliant", "such an improvement", etc. Really? They are adding a fraction of a basic features back, and people are thrilled, as if they made this massive upgrade? I could write a chapter in a book, what is missing. The pace of the development is just not acceptable for me. How it is possible to have such basic and featureless DE and take so much time developing it? Gnome/GTK got so many cash in those years, but it's not visible for users. Nothing changes. The same bickering, arrogance and things are barely done. I'm worried, because the same is visible in Wayland environment. That is why it's going so slow. I hope the pressure will wake them up, and they speed up their useless discussions and focus more on viable solutions, instead of stopping features.

[@DavidAlsh]

I wish there was a project that (almost) 1:1 remade the MacOS DE (replacing fullscreen apps with window snapping, and "finder" with something that looks like Windows explorer, and the file copy dialog with something similar to TeraCopy. Gnome is as close as we get to that, which is fine.

[@MichaelNROH]

Besides the animations, I feel like KDE Plasma is actually the better DE to mimic MacOS. Kwin compisitor scripts and some store widgets can get it very close. Gnome just looks a bit more like it by default

[@DavidAlsh]

@@MichaelNROH I think I'll try KDE when I'm back to work tomorrow. It comes highly recommended by everyone

[@amadeuspaulussen]

I am a GNOME user as well and tried Plasma. And, although I absolutely respect it I also feel most at home in GNOME.

[@deodezero5611]

It's just my opinion but when I started using Gnome (Fedora and Pop OS) back then, I just disliked how empty it felt and lack of customization it had, while I know there are extensions but it was confusing how to set it up right back then. Went to KDE and it was very comfortable to use from the start. It felt like using windows 7 except with easy DE customization. Sure even till now I get random KDE bugs there and there but nothing system breaking experience.

[@MichaelNROH]

Plasma is really good nowadays. Not quite as polished but it was way worse in the past.

[@feschber]

My biggest issue with gnome at the moment is that the app menu is so horribly slow. It runs at like 60fps on a modern PC

[@jake3111]

I knew I wasn't crazy! It definitely runs slower than that for me at some points. It bothers me so much

[@feschber]

Yup, I recently noticed that it pins one core at 100% as well. @@jake3111

[@rulercostax]

Its definitely slower, sometimes at 45 fps

[@feschber]

yeah more like 10fps tbh @@rulercostax

[@catto-from-heaven]

Not to defend Gnome devs, but why would you use that anyway?

[@mks-h]

5:20 You cannot expect unpaid OSS developers to reply to every issue every day. People got to do their work for the living, got to have at least some free time, and ALSO maintain free projects. You gotta lower your expectations, they aren't a support team in a call center. After filing an issue, give them a week to answer. You may also ping the issue on 8th day, if you really need that.

[@HiAdrian]

The GNOME devs _finally_ seem to be approaching the fractional scaling issue now (work in progress). I find the mobile/touch reductionism the worst offender. Those are negative tradeoffs that phone software wishes it didn't have to make - artificially introducing that on the Desktop is moronic. Having status bars, being able to _glance_ at important properties is a vital usability feature. If the GNOME devs designed cars, they would hide most of the dashboard in the glove compartment, possibly even the speedometer, because "I only look at the road" and "I have a keybinding for that".

[@georgepetrakis7703]

Since gnome removed the option to alt+shift to change language layout I stopped considering it as one of my DE options. It's like they don't care about non native english language users. This is awful.

[@mrnulll]

In "Gnome Settings -> Keyboard -> Keyboard Shortcuts" there is an option called "Switch to next input source" which by default is Super + Space. This setting changes your keyboard language layout.

[@georgepetrakis7703]

@@mrnulll I want to use alt+shift and this is not available.

[@mrnulll]

The keybind can be changed to alt+shift.@@georgepetrakis7703

[@catto-from-heaven]

@@georgepetrakis7703 alt + shift is an unnatural keybind, so you shouldn't be using it anyway. You're supposed to use meta + something for system-wide shortcuts

[@shApYT]

Cosmic... Cosmic... Cosmic...

[@MichaelNROH]

While I'm excited for it, I would still set my expectations really low. A Desktop Environment takes time, especially one that tries to be its own thing.

[@shApYT]

It is a monumental undertaking, and apparently it is helmed by only 7 guys. I am excited to have a third voice in the ring.@@MichaelNROH

[@sutibum]

I like gnome for being different I switched from windows and don't want to be reminded of it

[@Pirxel]

I'm on the same boat here, old gnome user that left if for the lack of VRR, just waiting for it to come back :T

[@yeyecannotdrift]

Gnome still cannot adjust mouse wheel scroll speed

[@SirRFI]

I like how GNOME looks and the workflow, but indeed it lacks some basic features, or they are scattered around 3rd party apps. Also, it could use something like KDE's XWayland Video Bridge to make screen sharing on apps like Discord and Slack work, at least until such apps implement this feature for Wayland themselves.

[@schneensch]

The XwaylandVideoBridge also work on GNOME

[@WMan37]

For me, no DRM leasing on GNOME is a showstopper as someone who wants to use Virtual Reality on linux when deckard brings the SteamVR on linux polish VR users are all waiting for. But overall, I just think adwaita looks ugly and way too chunky. I wish the window bars could have their size be cut in half. I don't like to be reminded of a smartphone when I am using my desktop PC, this is why even though KDE Plasma is my favorite overall, XFCE is my second favorite, and XFCE is ONLY my second and not first favorite because it doesn't have the same advanced wayland support and gaming stability as KDE does _yet._ I also don't like GNOME devs "why do you need that?" attitude (on a *free as in freedom OS* where the question is seldom ever "why", but rather "why not?") which prevented it from getting thumbnails in the filepicker for the longest time. I think GNOME is great, _for enterprise environments specifically._ It removes all of the pesky "distractions" that come with truly decorating a PC and making it yours, thus it's great specifically for work. But it is such an impersonal desktop environment thus an absolute no-go for a *personal* computer, imo.

[@MichaelNROH]

I think the Gnome Team is not really neglecting implementations, but the way how they are being done. DRM Leasing is a very good example. I don't remember if it was an open issue or the merge request, but there was some discussion going on, how the problem can be solved without to rely on drm leasing. It was kind of interesting to follow through the process. They want to do everything properly and set an even better standard than what already works. This is one of the things where slowdowns in development come from

[@WMan37]

@@Silverblue118 Right now I think GNOME's largest advantage is having Fly-Pie as an extension, but Kando is coming out eventually and that's gonna work on everything. I feel like Just Perfection, Blur My Shell, Fly-Pie, and Vertical Workspaces are essentially mandatory for GNOME but because they are extensions, they have a chance of breaking, when really they should just be core features. There is an application for gnome called Gradience that lets you color Adwaita which is better than nothing so check that out if you're looking for accent colors since I think that may or may not be what you're looking for, but because I don't like Adwaita at it's core for looking like a cross between a Smartphone interface and a MacOS computer, it feels like putting lipstick on a pig for me. GNOME devs have decided Adwaita is their way and I can just take the highway if I don't like it, it is simply not for me. Luckily, we are on Linux, I don't have to use GNOME if I don't want to, and people who do like GNOME can use it over the stuff I prefer, kinda why I love linux.

[@thejackimonster9689]

I like that GNOME is moving slow when it comes to such changes. If a feature is really important, there's always KDE for you to choose. But when something finally arrives on GNOME, it's usually done just right. I think if development would be more similar in such regard when comparing KDE and GNOME, the choice between both desktop environments wouldn't be that meaningful. I think both have advantages on their own and that's a good thing.

[@mlodin84]

Gnome is only simple for those who submit to their workflow. Everybody else has to install a dozen extensions to make it somewhat usable. I'll stick with KDE.

[@mjdev-i1p]

This is not a Gnome problem TBH ... Gnome trying to provide a standardized and optimized UI/UX is one thing ... people trying to tinker with it is another. I don't see people complaining about how hard it is to customize OSX

[@lev3271]

bro my kde plasmo cant even remember my numlock after restart/power off IN LTS VERSION and ye they finally fixed that in plasma 6 then u see how ge force now works in kde? i hate that desktop enviroment honestly

[@sascha1461]

Gnome is a love and hate for me. I really love how great it works, on every other DE or WM I've used I encountered several issues with applications and/or games I regularly use. Even KDE (on wayland) gives me a lot of issues compared to Gnome. I hope this gets better with KDE 6, but for now I just can't go away from gnome. The hate part comes from the big lack of customization options compared to things like KDE.

[@sascha1461]

@@Silverblue118 I don't expect KDE like customization, but it would be nice to (for example) have an option to have my top bar on all monitors and not just on one. And have a proper built in system tray (or at least the option for one) that's not buggy. Thats all I'm asking for :D

[@BUDA20]

no basic features that people actually use, like the tray area, vsync off, vrr forced theme no thumbnails on file picker like for 10 years (and that one is what you can expect for every inconvenience you have)

[@CDMS_pt]

I'm waiting for the new Cosmic DE to come out, don't like any of the DEs we have now.

[@MichaelNROH]

Let's see if its actually gonna stick in its first iteration. I don't wanna get my hopes up, though its still probably gonna be quite good

[@Ledplous]

Bruh for me both Kde and gnome just beat both windows and macOS by astronomical levels. These details don't really bother me. Awesome video btw, short clear and informative #1 Linux creator

[@medalzz]

Doesnt come to me how a DE that doesnt even auto open a rename dialog on a newly created file can be the most widely used. That and the many missing features that you'd need a third party app (extension) to get working

[@gizzmoguy.]

Gnome is awesome when using one monitor but nit great with dual monitors. With plasma you can effectively have two primary monitors. Gnome only extends to the right or left and that what I do not like about it.

[@McmeYTman]

VRR, fractional scaling (that doesn't affect available resolutions in games), and native HDR support (coming in plasma 6) are all major show stoppers for me and anyone wanting to game on Linux. I like gnomes look and feel but yes as you've pointed out their "play it safe" and slow for features that should have been implemented a long time ago will steer me clear, I can't consistently wait months or years for features.

[@aqua-bery]

I got lucky with never really having amazingly high hardware, so stuff like HDR and fractional scaling are entirely not applicable to me. The only screens I ever used were 1080p and the best computer I have access to is a core i7 4500 k with a gtx 1050ti, so I'm definitely not gonna be running a lot of games at a very high FPS.

[@trilight3597]

I feel worse since I run Pop!Os and I love the OS out of the box but I wish I had the newest Gnome features and support with some AMDGPU features like HIP. I used to like to tinker but I'm just tired of troubleshooting things, so I get my gnome is slow because I would've moved to Mint. So I'm waiting on Cosmic. VRR not on my priority list since it hasn't really impacted me.

[@McmeYTman]

@@trilight3597 I'll be curious to see how the new cosmic desktop works and what features it has.

[@abd5139]

just copy x11 apps scale themselves (most of x11 apps people use support scaling themselves, Discord, VSCode, Steam...), i still don't understand why they force the system to scale it and make them blurry

[@ReaverA]

I'm on KDE Plasma because I can customize absolutely everything and because they listen to users.

[@teklife]

thanks michael, i love your desktop linux videos

[@mma93067]

Gnome is the public example of having to work with a perfectionist. Gorgeous but an absolute nightmare if you want to experiment or have a different perspective.

[@MichaelNROH]

What they do is good, but they seemingly re-invent the wheel a bunch of times, with better modifications. I see a problem whereas merge requests are blocked by other merge requests that just won't get implemented. VRR broke triple buffering, Tearing won't be implemented until VRR is, HDR has some ties to some changes in those merge requests as well. It just piles up

[@mma93067]

@@MichaelNROH “Measure twice, cut once”. As a dev i completely appreciate the principle of it. As a user waiting years for a functionality, its completely frustrating tho. In their place i would’ve split the technical implementation and design as two separate MRs; Merged the technical implementation modifiable only via cli/config while waiting on the design team, but that’s just me. It also makes it clear who’s dropping the ball

[@backhdlp]

The GNOME devs are as bad at decisions as the Wayland people.

[@nezu_cc]

Depends on how you look at it. The problem with Implementing things quickly is that once apps start using something, It's hard to later remove it. Gnome takes a very conservative approach and I personally like it. Gnome is our last hope that prevents Wayland from just being x12. Xorg had some terrible decisions made over the years, apps now depend on them, and now people are used to that so they demand Wayland do the same.

[@moussaadem7933]

I like how gnome and Wayland take their time and discuss as many issues as possible before implementing something, it's worth it

[@bhargavjitbhuyan9394]

If you hate wayland, you are an insane person. I have so...........!!!! Soooooooo many issues on x11. I wish to burn it in fire. It is just bad. No question to be asked. It causes screen tearing, fractional scaling causes crashes. Weird bugs and laggy desktop. X11 is just utter trash!

[@JTCPingas]

Guys! The GNOME VRR merge request is listed as ready to merge! It might be finally happening! Aaand I spoke too soon. Now it says merge blocked. 🙃

[@Blueye555]

Thx to using Nobara I do have VRR on Gnome available and enabled. Though tbh I never disabled it to see if it makes any difference for me at all ^^

[@PixelShade]

I love Gnome, I use it on my laptop. I still have Windows 10 on my desktop due to VRR / HDR and Windows Mixed Reality... But I am hoping that Gnome will implement VRR and HDR in a not too distant future. And well, after that I hope I can ditch WMR for Valve's next VR headset, which hopefully has full Linux support.

[@liftedcj7on44s]

I'd personally rather have correct fractional scaling than VRR. VRR in and of itself adds latency and you are better off capping your framerate in the game than using VRR for Competitive FPS games.

[@MichaelNROH]

If VRR actually adds latency depends on your hardware. Theoretically speaking, the synchronisation method should be hardware accelerated and just compares two clocks. From what I have seen so far, it is close to immeasurable. Capping your framerates for competitive games is even more complicated. If tearing is implemented, then a higher fps rate can reduce latency, though it shouldn't fluctuate. What you actually want to aim for is, the highest amount of fps you can get, without dropping below the set limit.

[@felixal]

I can only say the gnome settings not complete /detaield enough you can't do s... with it

[@IndioInstaleGnuLinux]

Most of these issues seems to be gaming related issues, which really don't affect me. Also, I don't really see a reason why people put extensions on gnome.

[@fotnite_]

I can't help but notice you aren't using V-Shell... That extension is a must-have for me, one of the main reasons being the overhaul of the App Grid. It's a big extension, but you can also disable any modules you don't need to use so it doesn't have to load most of it.

[@nado_x]

I love GNOME too and I understand why they're so careful about implementing new features like this - if it negatively impacts the stability/performance for Red Hat customers, they can lose the support and trust they need for funding Fedora. What I don't understand is why they don't implement these features, yet they have kept the software center with all its memory leaks. So I guess I've become a bit pragmatic about it. Use whatever fits your needs at the time and if something else improves to the point where it will better fit your needs... switch. Maybe that means passing on the next 2-3 GNOME versions or sticking with something else on a more permanent basis. In the end there are trade-offs and we just have to accept the lesser evil.

[@MichaelNROH]

I don't necessarily think that Red Hat or Ubuntu have a major impact on this, since even Ubuntu is already extending Gnome heavily on its own part. Stability yes, but like you said, they don't need to use the latest release every time. Especially businesses, the ones that use RHEL are more interested in LTS releases anyway. P.S. The software center memory leaks were already addressed in Gnome 43 no?

[@Dj-Solarjazz]

I have Gnome running here under Arch Linux. It runs very smoothly. I was just wondering. Why things aren't built in as standard? such as Dash to Dock or Gnome Tweaks. These are probably the tools every experienced Gnome user installs first. You could also integrate this into the setup tool in Gnome. Maybe the Gnome developers should think outside the box.

[@MichaelNROH]

Gnome is migrating the settings from tweaks over to the new app, but it takes a long time. Most distributions choose which applications they pre-install. Since Tweaks is basically a Legacy app that doesn't see much development, they don't include it. For extensions, its a bit more complicated. Every extension more, would probably be acknowledged as unwanted bloat by some

[@DanielClear2]

GNOME devs think that nothing else apart from the topbar should be visible as it "distracts the user", and they don't care how you use your computer.

[@Dj-Solarjazz]

I understand the philosophy of simplicity, but in this case it has to be said that functionality suffers as a result.I have yet to see a Gnome Desktop on KZbin that doesn't have Dash to Dock installed. Almost everyone uses it. People love it. Not only does it look nicer, it also offers better functionality than the original dock. That is a fact.

[@russjr08]

I share pretty much the same feelings about GNOME, I like the general idea behind the DE, but there's always a few things missing because its tied up in a long decision making process for the simplest of things sometimes. I think my main criticism is summarized by the quote "Don't let perfect(ion) be the enemy of good (or rather, I like 'progress' here instead)"

[@faxen123]

this is actually why we can't have nice things on linux 😭

[@frede1k]

From a designer's perspective, GNOME is doing the right thing, and there's a reason it is so popular. It is refreshing to see a project in the Linux sphere where the engineers and programmers must adhere to good design and user interface practices. KDE can be customized to the moon and have all features, but it looks awful, unintuitive, and unstable.

[@Chris-hy6jy]

Debian Testing + Wayland + KDE.

[@abstractaxis]

It seems that it's really complicated to implement variable refresh rate in the right way due to some API issues in the Kernel. I'm far from being a specialist in this field, but this is what I heard from a Gnome developer. Also, it looks like that the person who did the first request is working on it now In any case, anyone with the same issue can use Linux's array of possibilities to go around it at this moment. I would suggest creating a dual boot with two distros using Gnome and Plasma: the first for work and personal related stuff; and the other just for gaming. For better storage management, you could share directories such as Documents, Downloads, etc. between the two distros by creating a partition just for it ~ or use a secondary disk, which I believe it's your case Anyway, thank you for the video! A small niche would benefit from it at this moment, but no one knows if this could actually be a deal breaker in the future for gaming in Linux

[@MichaelNROH]

I myself just have two Desktop Environments installed at the moment. Double the amount of apps is a bit annoying at first, but otherwise it seems to work quite well. Some settings and fonts need to be changed though

[@ohno1052]

bruh just switch to plasma its just better gnome is like windows from the de's world

[@dunkelwelpling]

Have you tried Cinnamon? It's a good blend between Gnome and KDE.

[@MichaelNROH]

I guess the main reasons on why I never considered it for myself were, that it didn't support Wayland, so my Monitor and TV cannot be hooked up properly, and that it feels too generic by default. Cinnamon is very customizable yes, but I rather have something more dynamic as a base. Just a preference really

[@omarashraf27]

I wish gnome would come up for a fix fractional scaling. Really. I wanted to try it on my new 14' 1080p laptop as I don't need to use windows on it, for it being only for light use case. Only to be surprised by the fact that gnome doesn't support fractional scaling and to sorta fix it I would have to use a solution that will use more cpu resources which negates the point of it being a lightweight system at all. And I tried KDE Plasma but it was so ugly. So yeah, it would be great if gnome fixed their fractional scaling support. I really wanted to try rely more on free and open source apps and to end up as linux user. But the lack of global shortcuts support on wayland and fractional scaling on gnome are holding me back from even trying to move away from windows.

[@sriniwasj]

I don't think you're alone in that regard, gnome has really nailed the user experience part, even if they are taking longer to implement a certain feature, it surely is much more polished.

[@taukakao]

I love Gnome, but I think the leadership there is lacking. I mean if the community can't decide if something should be implemented in some way or another, someone just has to step in and make a decision.

[@MichaelNROH]

It doesn't even need to be someone in particular. I think the biggest problem is digging deeper and deeper. For example, when deciding upon set limit, in case of VRR, that the minimal and max ranges are not being shown, discussions keep going on. In my opionion, this topic is already finished, and should be adressed in a change request once major testing is completed. Everyone is happy for an improvement to an already good implementation, while it is also more stable by then

[@nathsabari97]

This why i took the best things from linux and switched to windows. Package management with choco, removing microsoft bloat with winget, disabling automatic feature updates, using open foss when i can. Everything just works on windows.

[@lawrencespicher1769]

Everything just works on Linux

[@mskiptr]

Both of you are wrong. It's not that no software is perfect. All software is quite bad really.

[@rauldragu9447]

@TorsionTestis What do you mean that you removed MS bloat with winget? It fills the same use case as choco.

[@nathsabari97]

@@rauldragu9447 if you want to uninstall system apps like widgets, edge, copilot etc (or what we call as microsoft bloat) you can only do it through the native windows package manager called winget. I prefer chocolatey as the default package manager because all apps are there and is unified unlike winget that puts both store version and exe version of the same app.

[@nathsabari97]

@@lawrencespicher1769 vrr? Adobe? Popular multiplayer games?

[@KCKingcollin]

I mostly agree tbh, I love gnome, but I always end up switching out, it just needs more polish

[@MichaelNROH]

The right kind of polish, yeah

[@deathdoor]

Sometimes I hear people talk about this and feel that "workflow" isn't real, it's just a user problem instead of a software problem.

[@tomspencer1364]

Genome fans are always talking about workflow. But what is the real difference? I doubt that it is pertinent to most computer users.

[@aqua-bery]

Especially with the fact that you can entirely replicate gnomes workflow in kde itself. Yes it takes some effort compared to gnome, but wouldn't you want to find the best of what works instead of settling on the easiest one?

[@danielschurmann7558]

@@tomspencer1364gnome user here. I don't care about workflow, I mostly use the same 2 or 3 windows anyways. It just think it looks way better out of the box than KDE. I might switch, though, if KDE6 turns out nice as I'm really annoyed by the missing VRR and tearing.

[@tomspencer1364]

@@danielschurmann7558 People get use to a DE and it is sometimes annoying to change to another one. I use a few programs 90% of the time and if it takes an extra 1/4 second to start them compared to something else, then I can stand it. I want a pleasing wallpaper and an icon or two. But the fans need to get excited. I started with Gnome 2.x and thought it was great, but then the team wanted to do something different... Maybe they were inspired by Windows 8 and the thrill of forcing something weird on the consumer? Anyway that was that for Gnome.

[@dexterman6361]

After using KDE and using the Dolphin file explorer, I cannot use gnome. Nope. There are some gripes I have with KDE though. Now that gnome has introduced sane gestures, KDE is following suit. Or at least, it became more of a priority. I really hope KDE becomes the one pushing user-facing features more going ahead. Gnome 43 with the beautiful task view, imho, sent ripples across the DE space, and seeing that it was received well, others seem to be prioritizing it too.

[@dexterman6361]

I could just install dolphin on gnome but then it starts looking different from the rest of the system. I need to find some balance. If KDE doesn't catch up, maybe I'll give gnome another shot

[@proliloli2141]

dolphin is in 2030 while all other file explorers are still in 1990

[@MrVecheater]

I genuinely tried to give Gnome another chance. It's like a fun toy. It has neat animations and you can save a mouse click when you want to start an application and kinda have a normie-friendly implementation for workspaces. But then you install Wine games on Lutris, switch to another application and suddently your installer window disappeared behind the main window with no way to get it to focus. No minimize button and no way to shift Lutris to another workspace without shifting the installer with it. You have to move Lutris away until you see the installer. Then you want to check how large a file or folder is. Basic thing to find out, right? Well, think different. That's too advanced for the average user. It's good enough for a pure gaming system. But I'd never use it productively nor install it on my parent's or friend's device.

[@DanielAnderssson]

I use Ubuntu 23.10 with gnome and if you want to check out how large a folder/file is, you can just right click on it -> properties.

[@MrVecheater]

@@DanielAnderssson no, I can't. Ubuntu uses a modified version of Gnome. However I recently tried to press space to open a directory (who even does that but me?). Instead, I got a pop-up that started calculating the size

[@CRYPTiCEXiLE]

I was using gnome a big gnomie, but I went back to KDE lol i'm using kde 5x on Gentoo and I think its pretty good, i'm also testing RC2 KDE 6 on Arch on my other nvme disk, but much prefer the stable release and I will wait as it is coming out soon anyhow... also I prefer Gentoo over Arch.

[@rumplin]

I ditched Gnome for KDE

[@John7No]

for me Gnome is a mess at this point. Although TheUI in general I like, the missing features (functional tray icons) and the constant changes that break extensions is a terrible experience. Not to mention that theming has become impossible . KDE at least not only knows where it goes, but they do the extra step to provide good theming compatibility (even better) with gtk apps. I think you are at the position of "I like how Gnome is but not its disadvantages. I want to make KDE to behave like Gnome, but you forget that KDE is different"

[@matijacizmar9372]

Gnome will get there, but we must understand that isnt theirs top priority, and every UI has its flaws..Even macos, windowsUI and funcionality isnt perfect..we must be patient, as microsoft invests in gnome project there is certain point for sure where all this will appear..

[@Daniel-wn5ye]

Well, I'm really happy how KDE handle things! As I rather have not perfect things, than not have them at all. Too bad though that KDE doesn't have a lot of funding like Gnome has. But at least it uses better what it has.

[@sher1x165]

KDE has Valve support

[@Daniel-wn5ye]

@@sher1x165 Yes, but that's not an official sponsor. If you look at KDE's website, you'll see that Valve is not listed as a patron.

[@Daniel-wn5ye]

@@sher1x165 Not officialy! If yo look at KDE's website, you'll see that Valve is not a KDE patron.

[@rhekman]

Gnome 45 was a real struggle for me. I've tried other desktops on and off the last 10 years, but I keep coming back to Gnome. However I also use a lot of extensions. Dash to Panel, Arc Menu, cpufreq, Freon, Screenshot Tool, etc. are all add ons that I can't live without, and several took months to get working again after the API breakage from Gnome 44-45. I've tried other desktops, but KDE, LXDE, Budgie, etc. just don't feel right to me.

[@MichaelNROH]

If you like those extensions, then I agree that breakage is a real problem and I don't know how they are gonna address this. Even if they provide a stable API, at the pacing that some tweaks see, I'm not sure if they will start to interfere with their release cycle. Nonetheless, I believe something needs to change or be communicated more often.

[@bvd_vlvd]

I followed my favourite extensions' developments and upgraded Fedora after all were ported. I love the new changes, but I wasn't coming before the extensions were done

[@SZF123456]

I miss GNOME 2 :(

[@rulercostax]

GNOME fallback?

[@tomspencer1364]

The Gnome team dropped the best DE of the era and then left the users to find something else -- a Windows 8 moment and Microsoft level of arrogance. Egoism at its finest.

[@callisoncaffrey]

Isn't Gnome depending on systemd? Hm, apparently not, since it's also available for OpenBSD. Either way, I have openbox, xfce-panel and tilda. More is bloat.

[@zap117]

gnome needs to add some bleeding edge channel with vrr and scaling, i use both kde and gnome . but the workflow is so smooth in gnome,

[@MichaelNROH]

They don't even need a full channel. Simply putting more experimental flags in place or bundling them together would be enough already

[@fTeles]

I have the same feelings about Gnome. And I decided to stick with plasma after reading some arrogant comments from its developers about the "correct implementation", which made me feel bad, even though I agreed with many of the points made. I don't feel at home in plasma, but I'll wait for the updates to Budgie-wayland or the new Cosmic to decide where I'll stay.

[@mskiptr]

This is gonna be an unusual opinion, but hear me out: Scaling shouldn't really be a thing. Instead, the UI elements should just fit the DPI, or rather the angular resolution of the screen. Adjusting the size of everything (or more importantly buttons and text) is an important accessibility feature so that still needs to be possible. But since the OS already has all the necessary information to get most of it right without manual tweaking, it should do just that. The size (both in millimeters and pixels) is available and the distance to the screen can be decently estimated based on the device form-factor (~1 m for a standalone monitor,

[@MichaelNROH]

While it makes sense to automatically adjust the scaling based on your hardware, there are still use cases whereas you want to have 100% scaling. For some its a preference like more space, and visibility, but also for developers (applications, web, etc.) you might want to prefer native scaling for running them as not everything looks the same.

[@aqua-bery]

You can completely recreate the gnome workflow on kde. So if it's not the workflow, what is it that makes you prefer it? I am just curios as a kde user myself.

[@MichaelNROH]

It's not a 100% possible I'm afraid. With the Windows/Meta Key (or with a combination) I want to launch the Overview, but also access my pinned apps or bring up an application menu. This cannot be implemented in Plasma. Yes you can launch apps from the Overview, but you can't drag them to a virtual desktop right away. Also, if you have several windows of the same application (e.g. seperate Browser tabs) you can't launch another instance, since searching for it only finds the open windows. That's basically the main thing. Other things that are indeed possible are more difficult to setup. E.g., Meta + Scrolling = Changing Virtual Desktop That is an issue that can be worked around with a Widget or scrolling when your mouse is placed on your wallpaper, but its less intuitive. That's like the main things. There are of course some other inconsistencies like KIO not being able to mount network shares to an actual path out of the box but I can live with those. It's mostly about the virtual desktops or workspaces. Gnome is just king with those

[@lev3271]

gnome is better when it comes to design,objectively better

[@s9209122222]

Still no HDR on Gnome.

[@naheemsays5140]

While i do also think gnome can take too long on some features, I disagree with your "solution": while a "its good enough for the majority. lets merge and move on" is good enough for a one off, used too often it leads to a mess where nothing works unless you look at it from a certain angle. The other thing is these developers are rarely working on one feature only at a time, so motion on one feature may not happen at an expedited pace, but at the same time others features will also be worked on that do improve the overall user experience. With the VRR feature, it has taken longre, but that is mostly because the main developer of the feature has only had periods of time when he has been available, and often not at the most opportune times. For instance, this missed the gnome 45 release because he was not available at the time. As for the roadmap issue, you will note that it was created by a different developer who had a different idea of how to work and get it in. The VRR deeloper then returned, but has addressed development in a different order, putting more preference on the settings UI. hopefully it will be merged in time, but once again timing may undo it all, we will see.

[@WolfiiDog13]

Ubuntu has fractional scaling on Gnome, they just have a warning about performance

[@MichaelNROH]

They implemented it themselves I think. Just like triple buffering

[@skubed007]

which distro do you use??

[@Redmage913]

The thumbnail was unusual, but I approve. It is a little murky without the video header accompanying it, but that is circumvented by looking at the window you’re talking about. Mostly there, I think :) I’ve appreciated seeing your persona come into place over time. I can tell you’ve always wanted to present a positive, gratifying delivery and I think you’re relaxing into it quite well. Hope you’re well, and please keep creating whatever content you’re interested in. That’ll hopefully help fuel your creativity over time :) take care!

[@elmariachi5133]

Gome has done each and everything wrong since 2.

[@CyberDruga]

I have something I have to say: why have this whole fixation for delivering fully complete things when the things that are out there doesn't work anymore ? I'm in 45.2, and I still can't log into my Google account in Gnome because they use the epiphany engine, and that engine segfaults every time it tries to load Google's 2 factor authentication page, and I can't use my work vpn through Gnome either because the "apply" button when you import the ovpn file stays grayed out no matter what you do, which btw has been broken since gnome 40, but not with the same issue, back then the issue was that you would configure a route in your vpn and Gnome would just ignore it, and afaik that is still not fixed, though I can't really know, because I can't import my ovpn file. Sorry for the rant, but I just had to.

[@MichaelNROH]

Hah? That's weird, I have no issues connecting my Google account. 2FA, and everything is loading just fine. I think Fedora is on Gnom 45.3 at the moment, but it worked on 45.2 as well

[@CyberDruga]

@@MichaelNROH idk, but I've been having these issues for months, and I've changed from Fedora to Norabara in the mean time, and for the 2fa and vpn issues, in both cases what was already configured still works, the problem is when you try to setup something new. On the Gmail 2FA authentication issue, whenever I type my email on the page that shows up and hit enter the webview crashes. I had to call Gnome control center by doing this `WEBKIT_DISABLE_COMPOSITING_MODE=1 gnome-control-center`, and it only worked once in X11. For the VPN issue the story is the same, my already configured vpns works fine, but I can't add a new one because the "apply" button stays grayed out no matter what. From what I've heard it's a problem with a field that was wrongly set as required. Also again, sorry for my outburst, I really love Gnome, but some of their decisions drives me mad.

[@agroxk]

hey, well should i install fedora or debian kde? i like the gnome workspace though, and what do you use now, and in your opinion which should i use? and i don't do gaming mostly programming and browsing

[@duckymouth]

They both support gnome. Fedora will have newer versions while Debian will be more stable as an overview, but there are other big differences so I'd recommend doing research by yourself since this is such a broad question.

[@agroxk]

@@duckymouth sure

[@geryz7549]

if you like programming and workspaces, maybe look into (tiling) window managers

[@alexstone691]

I am using debian 12 kde on my pc for months while its outdated by many people's standard when you set it up it just does not break If you want to game either use flatpsk or distrobox (i use arch container), the same goes for programming tools

[@nomadshiba]

you should try project bluefin

[@MelroyvandenBerg]

ow I could have asked this at Fosdem.

[@MDJ774]

I think he is on the kight's side.

[@pamus6242]

This is really really good video. Good job. Just don't go the Distrotube or The Linux Experiment way! I know Money is important but Distrotube lacks anything substantial besides looking to beat the YT algorithms for maximum viewership.

[@MichaelNROH]

I'm trying to. If I'm actually targeting something specifically, then I want to make it as fair and constructive as possible.

[@blackrose7763]

Gnome is a good DE, but if you're like me and you and your workflow doesn't fit the Gnome way of doing things, you're way better off using something else. I am using Trinity and Plasma and they fit my needs and workflow pretty well. But that's the great thing about Linux, that you've got the choice what you want to use. And I see a lot of things why Gnome fit for many people and that's Great.

[@MichaelNROH]

It's all about preference, yes

[@insu_na]

I've been using Gnome for years, ever since I got tired of having my amazing i3 setup break every other week due to some updated software or having issues with wine. I switched to KDE 2 days ago because *something* on my system got updated and caused Gnome to no longer draw borders around windows, meaning I couldn't resize them anymore, and another issue that occurred at the same time is that some windows just arbitrarily became clickthrough, so I'd try to click into my browser and instead the click would be redirected to the terminal window behind the browser and then focus that window, and from that moment on it became impossible to click into the browser without closing and opening the browser application completely. Switching to wayland fixed this, but then gnome-shell would just randomly freeze every few hours and require me to ssh into my PC from my laptop and kill the gnome-shell process to make it useable again. Games would have extreme stutter and out-of-order rendering when I didn't hit 240fps (my monitor is 240hz) but would be buttery smooth if I was sat 240fps. With KDE all of this issues disappeared, but with them my beloved overview, and anyone who says "you can configure kde to be just like gnome" is kidding themselves significantly. I miss Gnome, but in the current state it's completely unusable, despite me trying to revert any update to any program that deals with windows somehow. The fact that they're dragging their feet with this vrr thing once again isn't surprising in the slightest

[@rawmaterials3909]

GNOME just doesn't feel serious to me. It's more like a toy.

[@ManuFortis]

There's no good way to say this without coming off rude, so I apologize in advance for any perceived rudeness; but you really should consider practicing the use of less inflection in your sentences endings. I say this because while I enjoyed the video, and content overall; that inflection drove me to writing this. So please take it for what its worth, and hopefully it helps you grow. Here's a sub for apologies on the rudeness side at least.

[@petar0402]

Last good Gnome was Gnome 2.

[@MichaelNROH]

Wouldn't that just be Mate nowadays?

[@petar0402]

@@MichaelNROH Indeed. That's why I used to use Mate. Now I'm on KDE, not looking back.

[@eltonandres169]

7:04 is it Krunner? How can i do it?

[@MichaelNROH]

That's the Andromeda App Launcher

[@eltonandres169]

@@MichaelNROH Thanks

[@red_ben3487]

In a word, no. The entire point of running Linux, in my mind, is to be able to have control over your system. I value customization. That doesn't mean I'm constantly changing everything, but it means that I have everything configured how I like and want it. When GNOME is constantly removing features or breaking things for some stupid ideological reason and their development is seemingly targeted at the lowest common denominator of computer users... it's just not for me. If you're someone that agrees with or shares their vision, great. I have my computer set up the way that looks best and works best for how I use it (and yes, that includes desktop icons and a system tray) with KDE and even after Plasma 6 comes to my distro, my configuration and workflow will remain working exactly the same. Also, Adwaita is fugly and apparenlty the GNOME developers have decided that the ability to change themes is too much for their users to handle. Additionally, there's no reason for UI elements to be as large as they are on GNOME. It's a waste of space, unless you're using a touch screen device.... come to think of it.... everything on GNOME seems to be geared towards a touch screen device, so why would anyone run it on a non-touch device? I just don't get it.... and when a head-strong developer tells me that I'm using my computer wrong, I'm out.

[@OraOraOra]

Great Video! It's crazy how most of your videos line up with my current "Linux Problems" My first DE was KDE Plasma, after a while I tried GNOME and ended up installing so many extensions... but then I thought: "Am I even the right person, if I rely on extensions so much?" I got rid of most of the extensions and just use Blur, Tray and Vitals now. And I love it, I really like GNOME and I just hope that they will improve GNOME more and more... even Glorious Eggroll listed 5 reasons, why Nobara switched to KDE. On GNOME everything looks so good and consistant and the DE experience is so fun. I always had weird theming issues on KDE. GNOME got 1 Million €, pls listen to use GNOME.

[@OraOraOra]

@@Silverblue118 Okay thats true. I will for sure try out KDE 6. But atm I really enjoy Gnome. I wanted Something completely different from Windows. But I have to say, I'm mainly a Gamer ... So Plasma might be better . . . What DE do you use?

[@OraOraOra]

@@Silverblue118 Thanks. Yea I already tried KDE Plasma. It's good, but I enjoy GNOME more. I ended up customizing KDE Plasma almost like GNOME, design wise with a top bar and a dock at the bottom. And I had weird theming issues everytime, it was so inconsistant. Dark Mode wasnt applied properly, some things were unreadable and that forced me to use Breeze Icon and Theming. Now I'm on GNOME with just Blur my shell, vitals and a Tray! (Thats maby 1 negative point aswell... all the extensions, that MIGHT break after a major update)

[@ixvicvi]

Have you tried the VRR patch for gnome and if so, what was your experience like? I tried it with Wayland, but there was very bad flickering that made it unusable.

[@MichaelNROH]

I tried it, but yeah there is occasional flicker on the Desktop. Both KDE Plasma, Windows and MacOS worked around that issue, by just enabling VRR for Full Screen applications. On KDE, if you force it to always on, then the same thing happens. It's a limitation of the monitor, since more expensive ones tend to flicker less

[@ixvicvi]

@@MichaelNROH Yeah for me it also was a problem with flickering on a dual monitor setup. Games flickered when both monitors were on. After turning one off, the flickering was way better. It really is a shame that gnome does not officially support Gsync.

[@SmokeApples]

Gnome is the worst graphical environment I've seen in a long time.

[@marksulloway5669]

Totally agree.

[@dominikheinz2297]

its way more intuitive than all the others imo.