Is it BAD to Cash Out A Lot of Cash at a Casino?

[@flast9020]

In England, there's no tax to pay on winnings because a judge 100 years ago said that a professional gambler isn't engaged in a 'trade' and is simply a 'skilful addict'. The HMRC (the UK IRS) haven't bothered to change the rules since. It makes life easier over here.

[@richardhall7172]

If they changed it would open a can of worms as the losers would all claim there losses off their other income.

[@wilg1164]

Canada is the same ...sort of. I think if you are a consistent winner or hit a big win, the rules might change. Maybe a skillful tax lawyer can legally get you out of that though

[@josephback-upaccount6116]

@@wilg1164 As long as gambling is not your "profession" the Windfall Tax Rule for Canadians will apply and the winnings are NOT taxable

[@wilg1164]

@@josephback-upaccount6116 I thought that was part of the ambiguity though, that CRA can consider you professional when you don't yourself. What's the line again for "professional"?

[@andyv123]

There is some logic to not taxing gambling winnings, in that on average you’re likely to lose, and so most people will be claiming a tax credit through gambling

[@djsparkyy]

You should probably do a whole series on money management. Nobody really talks about the nuts and bolts of living as a full-time player. Everyone is so focused on the hands they're not thinking about what to do with the money once they get it off the table.

[@AT-bw4cm]

He told you in the video. Take a big chunk of your winnings and continuously invest in a S&P 500 index fund and hold for the long term. Solid advice.

[@asuscott]

@@AT-bw4cm that isn't advice how someone living as a poker pro budgets, that was a comment about how he saw big winners blow theor monwy. Bart has been at it for years, some basics on how to structure a budget that can withstand the ups and downs would be great. How you move up and down in stakes based on the dedicated bankroll, etc.

[@measlymitch778]

Very few 🏆 winners. Basically non issue.

[@measlymitch778]

@@AT-bw4cm if only Matosow did this. He'd be in top 🔝 1%.

[@bearatts]

Lol. Surprisingly this might be one of your most informative videos Bart. Answered a lot of questions I've had for years

[@BigBundy82]

I have learned so much from you Bart.. I really appreciate All of your content, especially your hand analysis/breakdowns. And I am always rooting for you in the cash games.

[@ppmtrader]

He is not really that good though on actual cash games but his commentaries are superb.

[@CrushlivePoker]

@@ppmtrader source?

[@ligafftheindifferent3495]

Damn Bart. I have never heard this stuff explained so well.

[@craigferge4702]

Absolutely ridiculous that you have to pay tax on gambling winnings in the US, especially for tournaments. Half of the prize pool is being stolen by Uncle Sam. I remember in one of the main events the commentators were saying how the guy in 4th won more than the guy in 2nd because he didn't have to pay tax on his winnings - he was from the UK

[@asb3pe]

THIS. Every single dollar in a tournament prize pool is POST-TAX money, it was already earned as "income" from each of the players, and thus, it was ALREADY taxed by government. This simple exercise shows how we are screwed over time and again by those we supposedly elect to "look out for our interests". It's all a big sham and scam by everyone's favorite grifter Uncle Sam...

[@c10wnbaby22]

@@asb3pe amen brother. Thinking about every tax you pay just to get a dollar in your pocket is sickening. And then you pay more tax to spend it!

[@BaeBox]

@@asb3pe I don't follow the logic, if you buy a car, the money you use to buy it is also post-tax money. Another thing I'd like to add is that tax money is meant to be used to pay for things everybody in society needs, like health care, military, law enforcement etc. Can somebody explain to me why US-citizens hate all of these things so much? I'm serious, I'm from europe and the length people go to to complain about taxes in the US is amazing us

[@asb3pe]

@@BaeBox you don't follow the logic that taxing our income over and over again, multiple times, isn't outright THEFT? You and I clearly have different definitions of "logic".

[@BaeBox]

@@asb3pe What I meant was that it happens everywhere. The car you buy is an income for the car dealership, so they pay taxes. These taxes are expenses, expenses they will pass onto the customer. Also, again, the THIEVE is the state that gives you a civilisation, without the state, we would kill each other for food.

[@kzkilla808]

I work for a car dealership and have had strippers and probably drug dealer give me cash in like $10s and $20s to purchase cars before and even though I'm required to send in 8300 IRS forms and note them as suspicious, I'm pretty sure no repercussions have come to any of these people. Like Bart say, the IRS is almost certainly not going thru each one of these reports, 100s of them must get filed daily.

[@shibity]

CTRs are to spot money laundering and other criminal activities. The IRS agent is going to give a non-suspicious casino CTR about 3 minutes before moving on. I worked at a bank, they were pretty trivial especially if you aren't doing anything shady.

[@ligafftheindifferent3495]

Yes and no. Cash is automatically suspicious these days. Suppose you buy a car. If you use cash, I am not even sure they will do business. If you pay with a check (technically cash, but different) then it will not be an issue, though it probably does still generate a CTR.

[@snex000]

If it's not that big of a deal, why don't we scrap this illegal spying on us? The government needs probable cause to search us.

[@nickmajka]

I came here to say this. It is to prevent money laundering. Not only that, but the CTR is done WELL in advance of 10k, to prevent structuring. If you cash out for $8k, a CTR was filled out, and your photo was taken. That is certain, from someone who worked at a casino.

[@DM-wj3cd]

Thanks Bart. These videos are great and i think they go hand in hand with poker bankroll management to sense somewhat.

[@natepepin09]

Bart is pretty spot on with the rules and regulations. CTRs really aren't scary. One thing to note is that the employee doing them likely really doesn't care.

[@afwaller]

If you’re card counting at black jack they also try to take your ID to ban you from the casino and other associated casinos that may share ownership or partner with each other to prevent advantage players from playing

[@ico2525]

Small update to your point about chip cashing and showing ID or players card in NV: In Young v NV GCB, the State finally recognized that casinos are obligated to cash out their chips. That doesn't mean a cage employee won't hassle you still, but "You only play $1/$2nl" is no longer an excuse for refusing a cash out.

[@CrushlivePoker]

Interesting. Does that mean you can show up with a $5k chip with no history of play and they will cash it?

[@ico2525]

@@CrushlivePoker By law they should unless they can prove you’ve never been there before. They still may ask for ID for their MTL.

[@colinwichman1084]

I'm less worried about tax implications and more about crime when cashing out large amounts. Seedy characters following you to your car, etc. When I played underground rooms in Dallas this was a major concern.

[@johns783]

This is the whole thing that makes being a poker pro so damn difficult. First you have to beat the players at the table. 50% of all players can do this. Then you have to beat the rake. Now all of a sudden only 20% of players or so can do this. Then if you win you have to pay tax and lose a portion of your winnings. This takes the amount of people who can realistically profit way way way down, somewhere near 5%. You have to crush the hell out of the games you play over time in order to actually make a living.

[@MC-gj8fg]

This inspired me to math the question out. Let's say we have two guys who make 200k/yr, one of whom avoids paying taxes while the other pays taxes and simply invests into the S&P at historical averages. Assuming a 35% tax rate the tax dodger will accumulate an additional 70k/year. Let's say that both are strong savers and save 25% of their money. The tax evader therefore saves 50k/year of their 200k while the tax payer saves 32,500 (200k*35% tax rate/4) per year. Within 10 years the tax payer will begin beating out the tax evader. Let's take a less likely, but far more advantageous example for the tax evader. While the tax payer continues to merely save $32,500/year the tax evader saves the entire 70k tax nut plus the $32,500. So the evader is saving $102,500/year. It takes much longer, but the tax payer still comes out ahead after 22 years. By year 30 matters begin to get real. The tax payer will have saved ~5.3 million while the tax evader would only have about 3 million. After an entire 40 year career the tax evader would have 4.1 million while the tax payer would have a comparatively crazy 14.3 million.

[@tlien851]

Unless the tax evader still finds a way to launder their winnings and invest anyway

[@stevevenn1]

Good commentary. One subtle nitpick, I would use the term reportable instead of taxable in a few instances of this vid.

[@discblaster9210]

Pro tip: I know of a professional gambler who checks garbage cans at gas stations and scoops up as many losing lotto tickets as she can. You get to claim lottery losses as a professional gambler

[@matthewronchetti2915]

Started reading this thinking you were trolling, finished thinking you're a genius.

[@daveythehand4964]

@@matthewronchetti2915 😂

[@perforatednut2742]

No u don’t. No pro gambler is wasting time with 1$ for each ticket

[@elaineengland6373]

A bank can do a CTR Anytime they feel it is questionable. This is for any amount not just 10K and over. In my 36 years off working in retail banking l have never been questioned about any CTR ever by IRS ever.

[@jlaux7]

I don't cash out my chips from casinos that I frequently visit. This isn't to avoid detection or anything, but the coloring up/down process is much faster than the cash transactions, and it's often easier to carry large denomination chips ($500, $1K, etc.) than wads of cash.

[@MyTransplantLife]

i used to work in the cage at Hollywood Park Casino in LA. 1. if cash out/buy chips for less than 10k the cage will take your photo and notate how much the transaction was for but you will not be required to fill out any documents. if you cash out/buy chips for more than 10k that’s when the cage makes you fill out paperwork. 2. if you cash out for less than 10k in a 24 hour period then it all resets. so you can cash out for $9,999 every 24 hours if you really want to and you won’t be required to fill out paperwork. 3. if you have a safe deposit box at a casino they will already have your information so cashing out/buying chips for more than 10k and trying to avoid paperwork is irrelevant. 4. if you play a tournament and cash out/win for more than 10k you will have to fill out paperwork or you will not be paid out. 5. Bart is correct for CA, there is no history required if you come and randomly cash out a 5k chip.

[@iculus3333]

Banking Secrecy Act requires logs are kept for cash transactions $3000 or over. The rhetorical purpose is to prevent money laundering schemes.

[@KoenSmit91]

This all sounds awfully complicated. I believe in the Netherlands there's no difference between a pro or a rec. The gambling tax is already part of the rake, both in cashgames and in tournaments. So, if you win you've already paid and if you've lost you can't claim anything back

[@christopherwells2787]

I’m 30 and in the last 10 years I’ve done maybe 20 CTRs a year, it literally doesn’t mean shit. Ever. Never once gave a fuck or thought twice about it.

[@paulmaier6305]

many years ago when the fed government owned the bicycle club(it was seized from the ex owner when he got busted for drug dealing/money laundering), they had a "player's bank" which players could use so they didn't have to carry cash. they had a form they filled out at the window when depositing where they checked "cash" and "chips". i always deposited chips and after a few months had them write me a check.....no problems. to their credit, the safety measures were GREAT.

[@adamcopley8466]

Glad I wasn’t born in the USA. No taxes on anything considered gambling here in the UK, it’s awesome

[@StackerBA]

The funny thing about the opening example is that if the guy bought over 10k in chips to start that triggers the CTR right off the bat.

[@mbtadhl]

I also play at Encore Boston Harbor and they started asking for an ID when buying chops very recently and I thought that to be a little unusual. If you buy less than $500 no ID is required. I've played in many different casinos in the US and I have never had to show an ID buying chips. I have never played higher than 5/10 so I can't comment on that.

[@speakinfaxonly21]

What are you talking about? In a regular at their 2/5 game. 5 days a week. Played yesterday. I buy in for 900 every single time. No ID needed at all lmao. You just need your players card. And when cashing out, you don't need a thing. Give them chips, they give you money. I feel like people just say they play somewhere but never actually have lmao. I'm there just about everyday. You can't tell me you need an ID to buy chips lmao

[@jimbojones9118]

@@speakinfaxonly21 a player's card is a form of an ID, genius

[@speakinfaxonly21]

@@jimbojones9118 lmao no crap, Genius. Learn how to READ. you need your Players card to buy chips, BUT WHEN CASHING OUT YOU DONT NEED ANYTHING. So, my question is, if you use your players card to buy 900 in chips, but proceed to cash out for 5K, HOW WILL THEY KNOW?!?!?

[@speakinfaxonly21]

@@jimbojones9118 and this guy says if you buy less than 500 no "ID" required. And he's wrong. He clearly doesn't play at encore. If you buy even 50$ in reds for poker, YOU NEED TO GIVE YOUR PLAYERS CARD. Point is, when cashing out, they have no clue that it's you cashing out and for how much.

[@kbuggs1234]

I live in Nevada so a lot of us just hold on a lot of our large dollar chips ,like the hockey pucks…😊

[@boj99]

Well here in Denmark, Europe my bank doesnt take cash anymore. So If I win a great amount of money on the casino I Can only deposit $2000/month by an ATM. Thats SO sick 🤬🤬🤬🤬

[@matthewronchetti2915]

Fair points Bart, however. I pay 22% in income tax, (luckily no state tax but others can add that), another ~10% in SS and Medicare/medicaid taxes, then another 22% on my poker winnings, that another 30% on my investments lol. If I lose the money I risk gambling, I don't get a government rebate. If I lose the money investing, I don't get a rebate. It's the principle. Now if poker is your primary source of income that's a different story.

[@CrushlivePoker]

I dont know where you have come up with these percentages are you american? How are you paying more in tax on your investments than your ordinary income? It doesn't work that way unless you have all short term capital gains. But even still the short term gains would be taxes at the same rate as your ordinary income.

[@matthewronchetti2915]

@@CrushlivePoker American, I was guesstimating STCG, but yes you are correct, it's just 22%. I always report all of my wins and loses. I guess I mentally bracket the funds, because taxes are automatically withheld, I consider a tax on any money I gamble with and win double dipping in a way. I could file to have the feds withhold less, but that's potentially dangerous lol. I'm a rec that plays 10-20 times a year. It's just annoying to pay on winnings.

[@matthewronchetti2915]

@@CrushlivePoker And not to get too political lol, but let's say player 1 and player 2 each gross 100k/year. They net 78k and get to take the standard deduction. Player 1 loses 10k to player 2. Now player 1 cannot deduct the 10k from income, only offset other winnings and only if they itemize. Player 2 now has to pay an additional $2.2k in taxes just because the money changed hands. It's double dipping.

[@CrushlivePoker]

@@matthewronchetti2915 exactly! That’s why the code is so unfair to gamblers especially with the raising of the standard deduction. You can view my video that’s linked in the description for more information on that.

[@fredmcmillen7760]

I was buying in only like a thousand at a time at a dice table in Mississippi, I lived in Tennessee my name ended up on a list washing possible drug money. My best man in my wedding was a detective he called me into the police station to talk to me. Do not get a table card at Casio tables beca7se they track you how much money you are buying in for.

[@brianfloyd2279]

Hey Bart, how about a video that goes further in depth about the professional poker player bit? Maybe have a CPA on the cast to discuss it.

[@CrushlivePoker]

Take a look at the end screen card to the video I did. I’ll post a link in the description now.

[@brianfloyd2279]

@@CrushlivePoker thanks cuz! I'll check it out Maybe it's a cue I should pay attention to the entire video...no wonder I don't crush the games like Bart! 😂

[@branchtana315]

It's kind of like the old saying "it's not the crime, it's the coverup". Not that performing transactions that require a CTR are illegal or indicative of a crime, but when someone takes evasive actions in an attempt to circumvent a CTR, that's the most likely thing to land you on law enforcement and the fed's radar.

[@Dynamice1337]

I operate my construction company as an LLC filing as an Scorp. I only pay self employment taxes on my established "salary". The rest of the money I make in a year is an "owner distribution from business profits" and I pay no self employment taxes on that portion. Saves +/- $10K a year in self employment taxes You may be able to work a similar angle as a poker player.

[@CrushlivePoker]

I have heard of people attempting to form LLC and choose S corp election with the professional gambling status. My accountant doesn’t think that it would actually hold up if challenged. It has to do with the fact that the nature of the business (gambling) is entirely one person. If you we’re running some sort of syndicate or had employees/partners it’s possible it could hold up. However with the QBI deduction and the extra time and fees it takes to setup and manage an S Corp I wonder if it’s worth it unless you pay yourself a low amount as a salary. And you are supposed to pay yourself something reasonable for the sector/industry. Bart

[@scotts1996]

there is the concept of an ‘s’ corp and you retain earnings as an owner if you don’t take it as a salary and take an owner distribution, there are limits and rules around that too. Poker players are typically not incorporated nor do they have formal equity in anything, it’s different and more about wins/losses for the tax year, the self employment tax Bart mentioned is how Scheudle C (self employment business) has you pay the employer and employee portions of the tax on profits.

[@BaeBox]

wow so interesting to hear from the "meta"-side of poker from you, appreciated. Makes a ton of sense as well, even though I'm from europe and some things are different obviously

[@sQuaTsiFieD]

Not sure how they would track your winnings unless you are cashing out large amounts of chips at once. I play at Encore and you can cash out a few thousand in chips without ever giving them your ID or players card. Yes you get checked when you buy, but not when you cash out smaller amounts.

[@DerbyBandit]

Vegas is wild…they almost denied me cashing out $2400 ONLYYYY $2400 in chips from playing roulette 🤣🤦‍♂️…they had to call and review the tapes of me crushing it off a $60 buy in 🤣 it was ridiculous!

[@trupoo121]

I play at hardrock Hollywood and they maybe started last year (2021) asking for ID for me every time I cash out for over 3k. at first I thought they were being racist and it bothered me. then I asked and was told its done to everyone who cashes over 3k. still I don't like it.

[@CrushlivePoker]

What race are you? European?

[@psymeariver]

At Bay 101 Casino in San Jose, you need ID to cash out $1000 chips.

[@psymeariver]

Very pertinent information to my situation - I have been researching taxes and poker, even watching your video on the subject recently - I've spent hours searching Google over the last week or so. I kept getting that there's a 24% flat tax; but what I'm hoping is the correct answer is that poker winnings count as normal income according to your tax bracket. With the standard deduction, the tax for someone with poker as their sole source of income turns out to be 7%, if you win $40000 a year.

[@CrushlivePoker]

There is no gambling flat tax. Articles that say that are conflating the withholding rules of 24% on certain payouts. Gambling is treated as ordinary income exactly like you suggest.

[@psymeariver]

@@CrushlivePoker Thank you very much, for helping to clear this up - that information may very well be the difference between my filing and not filing - I was very upset, to consider that my profit would be cut by almost 1/3 including California state tax.

[@joeishere500]

You mean in tournaments rite... Regular games knowone would know or hear a thing RITE.... 🙈🙉🙊

[@bradleyhines604]

I understand why the pro who didn't report his winnings had a hard time because he couldn't invest it, but if you're a rec player or semi pro with other sources of income, and poker doesn't account for a significant percentage of your overall income, Is there any good reason to report your winnings?

[@deiterprussing]

Given that the insignificant sum of money in that case won’t trigger a tax evasion investigation (therefore this guys prison comment is obsolete^), it makes no sense to go through the trouble of reporting. The IRS doesn’t give a shit about your character. But if you want to protect your morality just be generous. I gave $100 to a Chipotle worker this week who didn’t skimp me on steak. Probably went to better use than anything gov would’ve done 😂

[@bradleyhines604]

@@Broke_Stacker Voluntarily giving money to the liars, thieves, and pedophiles running the government is not a sign of good moral character.

[@snex000]

@@Broke_Stacker Honest and upstanding? What's honest and upstanding about the government stealing from you? What's honest and upstanding about complying with the thief? Your logic is ass backwards.

[@tylerhorn3068]

I live in stl and play at ameristar and Hollywood where jaman used to vlog. The floor told me you don’t have to pay taxes on poker winnings. We had a separate cage and they never asked for ID

[@CrushlivePoker]

Somehow I doubt that the casino floor told you that you didn't have to pay taxes on your gambling winnings. If he did he's a moron.

[@tylerhorn3068]

@@CrushlivePoker they told me you only had to pay taxes on tournament cashes above 5k. All cash game profit is tax free. If you hit a high hand then they get your info since it’s money won outside of the pot and you pay taxes above 600$ total for the year. But all cash game profit you don’t pay taxes on. Plus to attest for them I’m a small 1/2 player and sometimes would cash out around 2k and never had them take my info

[@CrushlivePoker]

@@tylerhorn3068 whomever told you that is giving you the wrong information. There is no “tax free” income in the United States. It’s possible that they are talking about what the casino reports.

[@danj87lfc]

glad am from the uk with no taxes on gambling winnings even when we win in the usa we pay no tax

[@tightlines7]

Glad I live in Canada no taxes on gambling. Great vid Bart like always

[@thelurker12]

CTR' trigger amounts vary by casino. Live Philly is only $3000 cash out that triggers it!

[@CrushlivePoker]

Sigh..it’s like you didn’t watch the video

[@eseder911]

They ID as part of the chip tracking to ensure that chips aren't created or stolen. They know what's on the floor,cage,and missing.

[@trdi]

I am not sure about this... Because of my job I actually do have to do annual exams on anti money laundering procedures. As far as I know 10k rule is not in place just for "cash". It does get triggered if for example you gamble in an online casino or poker site and withdraw such amount. It's all about transferring money into or from, let's say banking system in this case. Maybe we are talking about different things, tax vs anti money laundering purpose? But I do think that your 50k wire transfer from a casino will not remain "unreported".

[@fredsmit3481]

FinCEN is not part of the IRS. They are both a part of Treasury.

[@afwaller]

Also the standard mileage is 58c per mile right now

[@Keptionpoker]

win/loss tracking in poker does sounds good, better than in germany, if our financial government (dont know english word) knows that you earned money in poker, its up to you to show where you lost your money to pay less taxes

[@domdadda187]

Quick tip for anybody who is also worried about claiming an influx of cash from Poker. One way you can avoid having to claim some of that money is I actually giving it away to friends and family. Lol at least for the short term. Then you have them cut you a check as a “GIFT” for $15K!! Which is the maximum amount by law that you can gift a friend or family member each year & IT WILL NOT GET TOUCHED!!

[@CrushlivePoker]

This is not legal. You cannot gift pre taxed money and skirt tax liability.

[@davidgross2684]

good info thanks

[@AT-bw4cm]

Even if you file as a professional gambler, you can't carry over losses from one year to another like a business. So if you have 100k in tournament loses one year and then win 300k the next, you don't get to deduct the 100k. In many industries there are loopholes or special deductions to take the sting out of taxes, not so with professional gamblers.

[@jimbojones9118]

I think that is one of the reasons some pros start and file as a LLC

[@AT-bw4cm]

@@jimbojones9118 Yeah but that is having a separate business, ie coaching, or selling merchandise. You still can't carry gambling loses forward.

[@jimbojones9118]

@@AT-bw4cm no, pretty sure that's not true, a lot of online poker pros start their own LLC, and dont have any other aspect of their "business". I don't see why live would be any different.

[@AT-bw4cm]

@@jimbojones9118 Gambling is not considered a business by the IRS. You can't LLC yourself. Pros like Greg Raymer started businesses like coaching seminars to get extra deductions while traveling. You can't include your gambling activity with your llc.

[@jimbojones9118]

@@AT-bw4cm u are wrong, people have been doing this for a long time. Even online pros with no real product or famous persona. I've been around the game for almost 20 years, tons of pros were/are doing this. Unless the laws changed, but it was very popular for pros back in the Full Tilt days at the least

[@paulistastars]

I have a question, if you ever read to this, I am on Chicago/Joliet for work, if I play in the Casino and make some cash do I need to pay taxes on the US or can I pay it in my home country(which is bigger tax)? I mean, if I pay here I will be doubled taxed because I am still assign as living on my country and in an Business trip.

[@CrushlivePoker]

This is similar to foreigners who play at the WSOP. It depends on if your country of citizenship has a tax treaty with the US. If they do, usually the answer is no, so this avoids this double taxation.

[@EasyMoney747]

lol winning players playing 1/3-2/5 should have zero concern, higher players yes I’d be paying taxes

[@squallloky]

There is no tax for gamblings in Canada/Quebec. Which makes sense.

[@charlesdahl3935]

Yeah same in Australia, gambling is not taxable

[@MSpight]

This is a super helpful video!

[@firstname2072]

The story of the guy that bought gold coins is a bad one, he would have cleaned up as gold skyrocketed in price

[@aceofspades4043]

What if I play 1/2 as a “side hustle” making an average of 1K a month.?

[@coreyjones7249]

Australia gambling is tax free Bart !

[@Twest47]

Yes sir!

[@dsy6238]

And the UK

[@craigerc713]

Hey Bart... I'm curious how professional poker players pay their taxes. Do they get a receipt every time they win?

[@ijustwannaleaveacommentony6511]

how about all the times they lose? it's crazy that you need to pay when you win but you don't get a rebate for losing

[@bigcockedman714]

@@matteframe what law?

[@Gwreck562]

So last year I got 4th in a tournament and won $8530. That was my only big win over $5,000. I did not report any of it when I did taxes. When I did my taxes they said I would get back a small amount around $600 but I got nothing back. I'm assuming they saw my big win that wasn't reported and just took it back because I know own them money from my win. I'm not a pro gambler and I don't make that much a year under 50K. Would I have been better of reporting my win and all of my losses or just not saying anything like I did. I know I will still probably owe the more on the next couple years as well now. One player guessed I would have to owe around 2K for the 8K win. Any advice or help on this topic would be greatly apprepciated.

[@CrushlivePoker]

You cant just not report it. That's not an option. A W2G was sent to the IRS for your win. So if you claim $0 in gambling winnings a correspondence letter will be triggered by one of their computers to you automatically saying you failed to claim.

[@Gwreck562]

@@CrushlivePoker So I have to pay the same amount either way right? I know they knew I won. I just didn't put anything for my wins and losses.

[@CrushlivePoker]

@@Gwreck562 I assume that you are going to have to file an amended return with your proper wins and losses. I would suggest speaking to a tax professional.

[@Gwreck562]

@@CrushlivePoker Ok great. Thanks for the advice!

[@ppmtrader]

So how wesley do his account that he is buying in $1M chips sometimes in hustler casino playing poker?

[@scotts1996]

The amount doesn’t matter, the high skates people for sure follow tax law much better than us normal people at smaller stakes. They win/lose such high amounts they know better than to hide things, plus their play is super public, it would be lame to tax cheat for them. So crazies like Wesley most likely tracks his buy ins/losses for sure, probably via a players account statement (e.g. he probably isn’t walking around with millions in a backpack and riding in cars with it)……so unlike us he like Bart probably wires his money around in each game he plays in, which helps him keep track and properly do his taxes. Also when you are that rich most likely your full time CPAs take care of most of the tracking and estimate tax payments if winning, etc.

[@ppmtrader]

@@scotts1996 thank you so much for the profound insight sir Scott. Have a nice day to you.

[@ernestoleitao8684]

"the way" is uncle, adverse, ogs know how!, hi Bart, less than 10 k, other people different days

[@integritymatters5114]

CTR goes to Treasury not IRS. When they 1099 you it goes to IRS

[@CrushlivePoker]

FinCen, right?

[@jefftheisinger1996]

Love this type of video.

[@chrishorn9195]

Bart, any thoughts on recent IRS rules requiring paperwork for transactions above $600? Regularly getting flagged for 1-2K transactions this year that we never an issue last year. Regardless agree 1000% about the hidden cost of keeping cash off the grid

[@brianfloyd2279]

It was recently passed that any amount u send electronically via cash app, Zelle, etc, gets reported if it's more than $600. It is a way for the government to enforce even more taxation for cash based businesses, such as someone who does lawn care; if they are being paid through cash app it can be taxed now with the traceability. I'm not a tax guy. I am sure someone else that knows more can speak up and add to this.

[@CrushlivePoker]

My understanding is this relates only to business transactions made with these peer to peer payment services, not, for example, friends and family on paypal. Also the nature of this reporting is through the use of a 1099K, "Payment Card and Third Party Network Transactions", form the exact form that a company gets from a credit card company for all of the gross charges made in a single year. The amount itself means very little as its just gross. So really all this is enforcement is doing is requiring the Peer to Peer companies to report these business transactions to the IRS.

[@brianfloyd2279]

@@CrushlivePoker I have only read excerpts from it. I took it as any time you send more than 600 to anyone for any reason the service such as PayPal or cash app sends a notice to the IRS. You may be correct with that assessment. I'll check out the actual bill when I get a chance.

[@mc386106]

@@CrushlivePoker I don’t believe that’s true. If you have over $600 of payments come in (and that’s in total, not on an individual transaction), I believe you will get a form as required from PayPal. Even businesses try to have payments go through friends and family payment, so the IRS isn’t going to allow people to just avoid this requirement that way. If you are getting paid back for things like buying food for your friends or you’re collecting for a gift for someone else/charity, that’s where the notes on payments can be so helpful. As with literally anything tax related, just track it so you know what items are income and what items aren’t, then pay your damn taxes. If people weren’t trying to avoid their responsibility from a tax perspective, there would be a lot less reason for all this.

[@CrushlivePoker]

@@mc386106 very doubtful. You will have to show me some evidence to support this. It took me less than 5 seconds to search on the issue and found "Beginning January 1, 2022, the Internal Revenue Service (IRS) implemented new reporting requirements for payments received for goods and services, which will lower the reporting threshold to $600 for the 2022 tax season, from 2021’s threshold of $20,000 and 200 transactions. Here’s some more detail: 1099-K Threshold Change: This new Threshold Change is only for payments received for goods and services transactions, so this doesn’t include things like paying your family or friends back using PayPal or Venmo for dinner, gifts, shared trips, etc."

[@DarkTruth1]

When filling for taxes and doing write offs like traveling to different casinos, do poker rooms like Chasers count as casinos? What about home games?

[@roberturling9183]

Didn’t Hustler casino have problems at one time.

[@Its__Good]

Do you not pay tax on your overall winners over the year, rather than individual sessions?

[@snex000]

Yes but if you aren't tracking properly, only these wins have a record.

[@c10wnbaby22]

....yes

[@moneyindabank]

If you have $15K then cashout $8K that day then come back the next day and cashout $7K. Smart thing to do.

[@CrushlivePoker]

Guess you didnt watch the video..

[@danztai]

Hey Bart, if you ever do decide to become an accountant please let me know and you will always have a job here waiting for you in Australia! Haha

[@jbpokerwar8962]

feds look like they slowing down on rate hikes, japan is in trouble so i think the market could come back for 2023....one more .75 than they are going to pause on the hikes

[@stacking4life86]

Reg 6A is the lengthy Nevada Rule with NGC that fully explains all the reasons the casinos get paranoid about large cash transactions and assume shady or illegal activity. I think several reasons make it more complicated and confusing for recreational part time players that can get intimidated at a casino because casinos dont explain things most of the time for WHY they are doing certain things. I think transactions over $3,000 they start to really ask for ID's and at least write name down to prevent "structuring" or other shady or illegal activities they may suspect you of doing or want to prevent someone from doing. Also because the world in general is going more and more cashless if you dont have a players card and have hardly any history with the casino they in general are paranoid and suspicious about why and by default might treat an avg player who got lucky as a shady character if you are cashing out over $5,000 Also remember when it comes to large cash transactions the person in the cage is Not paid a huge salary and will get fired if they make a mistake in either your favor OR the casinos favor. This element of how they train employees is another reason why everyone behind the cage appears to act paranoid and sometimes you can leave a casino cage after a win and feel like you were treated badly rather than a winning player.

[@Strictly_Poker]

hey bart what about losses what if i never win.

[@shinonkim4814]

I’m pretty sure it’s hard and not worth the time for the irs for them to tract you.

[@speakinfaxonly21]

Is the guy who wrote this question a moron? How can they possibly track your winnings at poker? Seriously? I play at encore too and you need to give a players card to buy chips, but when you cash OUT, you don't need anything lol. You give them your chips, they give you your money. How in gods name would they be able to keep track? If you had to give your players card to cash out, I'd be inclined to agree. But you can buy in for 900 with your players card, win 8,000 at the poker table, and cash out and they have no idea you cashed out for 8K, they only know you bought in for 900.

[@well.thy.one.]

Are you kidding, gold in the early 2000s was a great buy...not to mention gold is still real money, not fed debt notes

[@measlymitch778]

The Fro,s are watching. So yes it's bad to cash out a lot. Robbery is a concern.

[@americamindbender3536]

This video has been way overdue my question is does this apply to Indian reservation casinos

[@amerixantrash3620]

Yes

[@scotts1996]

It applies no matter where you earn, you are still a citizen of where you live and earnings at a US Tribal casino is taxable to you (US Tribes are still regulated by the Federal Government, hence 1099s, Cash Transactions Reports (CTRs) are all in play. For us here in California even California taxes are in play, as the tribes are only allowed to have gaming (Class 3 gaming) with a “compact” with the state (that is the Fedral rule)….so usually the state puts in there they will follow state taxation rules if they grant them the compact to operate a casino

[@BiGTruthNow]

Awesome, I was losing player for 10 years, lost over 200K playing NLH $1-3, now that I started winning this year I have to pay taxes. So all those money behind all these years now dont count. Its like I paid for my experience and education and that - doesn't count as a wright - off. Great. Fair....

[@smokinjoe4709]

why would it, it's per year - not total

[@CrushlivePoker]

Correct. The tax code for gambling sucks. You cannot carry over year to year

[@smokinjoe4709]

@@CrushlivePoker It's not a "gambling" tax though, it's income tax. I don't think poker winnings should be taxed at all, but just pointing out that it works just like any other form of income. If you own a pawn shop and make no profit for 5 years, in fact you lose 10,000 a year, you don't pay any income tax,. Then in year 6 you profit 20,000 (still down 30,000 right?) well you still owe income tax this year on the 20k, right?

[@CrushlivePoker]

@@smokinjoe4709 no you don’t. It’s exactly the opposite of that. In most professions you can carry over losses. In your example you absolutely wouldn’t owe income tax for the positive year (or owe tax on the profit of the venture as it flows through to your personal return). And who said “gambling tax”?

[@frankberger3507]

Dear Bart, I am a tax cheat. Please advise me on how I can keep from getting caught. Sincerely, Sleazy Scammer. PS - I love to cheat the government but I'd never cheat at the table. Well, unless I could get away with it. So if you can teach me any slick angles, I'm all in! SS

[@discblaster9210]

Its always best to have your money on the books. People who skim from business are stupid and shoot themselves in the foot. You want the records so you can show investors, buyers, and loaners your success. People should be begging for receipts for both buy ins and cash outs

[@gonrico]

Happened to Gal, arrested and caught for structuring along with other crimes

[@jaredlinton8713]

Is this why he hasn’t been on streams forever?

[@alistairwillock7266]

@@jaredlinton8713 Yep.

[@devanishant]

I went to Vegas with $50,000 cash and returned three days later with $150,000 cash. (Sports betting.) I never made any bet larger than $9000, which is to say, $9900. I never provided any form of ID or a SS number. My biggest concern was boarding the plane to Hawaii with that much cash in my carry-on bag. My fear was that TSA would confiscate my cash on general suspicion. I made it through without incident. That was 28 years ago. It's probably worse now.

[@psymeariver]

TSA was founded in November of 2001, 21 years ago.

[@devanishant]

​@@psymeariver I don't care if you think it was founded yesterday or doesn't exist at all. The fact is that criminal thugs and thieves have infested our airports since before the 1993 Superbowl. I successfully ran the gauntlet. As a gambler, I have to worry about winning, getting cheated, not getting paid and getting robbed by common criminals as well as government goons.

[@CrushlivePoker]

@@psymeariver This has gotta be the best comment on this whole video.

[@Ddamien-th8nh]

Meals can be a per diem

[@keithkelso9872]

Gold coins have gone up a lot sense then if he still has them. Gold is safe

[@GoldenGolden31]

If that dude bought gold before 2008 he made A LOT more than 2x

[@drfunkinstein1]

The part that bothers me is that I'm down about $50k or so in my gambling career but I keep no records of that. Then if I win and cash out $10k it would look like I'm a winner and need to pay taxes even though I'm down overall.

[@Tell_It_Right]

You need to claim your losses, I do.

[@scotts1996]

Keep a basic log, it resets each year, you can’t carry over losses from one year to another (it’s the “sin” part of the US tax code). But using a poker income tracker or something simple and you can have your record if your year nets out as losses overall. As Bart said if you are not a professional you have to report your income (winning sessions) separately from losing sessions, so if you lost 50k that goes on your itemized deductions while separately your 10k winnings goes on your other income. They don’t offset….now if your losses were low or lower, your standard deduction would make your losses moot (since the Standard Deduction would be higher than the losses you technically are not offsetting your winnings in that case). If you qualify as a professional, then like any business your income is offset by your losses directly before taxes are applied.

[@jamesdeppeler793]

Bro gold went up a huge amount between 2003 and 2008

[@jamesdeppeler793]

Great info and insight aside from that, though!

[@CrushlivePoker]

Who said that he sold it then? How about comparing S and P to gold returns from 2003 to present day?

[@BallenX101]

Can you file as a professional, yet still have a regular job?

[@AT-bw4cm]

If you get a w2. No.

[@scotts1996]

The idea is you make your primary income from gambling, else you can’t file as a professional

[@CrushlivePoker]

@@AT-bw4cm thats not true

[@CrushlivePoker]

Yes absolutely you can file multiple schedule Cs with professional gambling. This was a tax court case ruled in the gamblers favor. However I would highly suggest contacting a tax professional if you intend to do so or intend to file a professional gambling schedule C with regular W2 income.

[@AT-bw4cm]

@@CrushlivePoker It was the first thing a K&A rep asked me. I guess you would need even more documentation and evidence in that circumstance.

[@zackleanord1995]

Can I have his info please

[@johnnyblaze8030]

Bart I agree with you 💯. All the time someone wastes trying to scam the system they could have been making $$. The same with some people not working and thinking they are scamming the system. They are just scamming themselves!!

[@Sim_racer_40oz]

Good job at HCL

[@richardpoplis6777]

Your money that u gamble with is already taxed.... I thought you must pay once won is 600 times.. a won bet

[@CrushlivePoker]

You are conflating the withholding rules that some racetracks / casinos are required to make when you win certain types of long shot bets like a jackpot. Withholding is not the same as taxation

[@jeffdanielspoker6717]

I sent you an email Bart 👍

[@scotts1996]

Hey Bart don’t forget to make it clear the reason there are the CTR protocols as they are designed to detect money laundering, more reason poker players should not be concerned about them….as they don’t tie the ins/outs of 10k or more to your taxes, they are looking for suspect activity…and yes the 10k is not much, but they are looking to catch ins/outs that eventually add up to material amounts…so a few CTRs a year or month shouldn’t worry anyone…and yes if they do their taxes the right way shouldn’t worry at all.

[@20891]

The law in US is ridiculous. People should keep their winnings . Pathetic is whoever they made up these laws . Shame on them. You can’t prove structuring. What if I wanted to keep some money to gamble more that day . None of your fucking business

[@rppoker8541]

5K in poker and casino in 10k

[@elpatron7916]

The Bank Secrecy Act requires reporting for anything over 5k

[@CrushlivePoker]

Source?