Is "Justification by Faith" the Gospel?? A review of 'Beyond Justification' by DePue and Campbell

[@thomasalbinholmes2538]

Great, great stuff. Thank you Joel

[@Steelblaidd]

The book sounds very interesting. Something that I would love to see is how working out this paradigm affects the coherence of Paul with the other New Testament writers.

[@warrenroby6907]

You convinced me to read this book.

[@silentgreybox]

I would love to see N.T. Wright seriously engage with this newer generation of scholars (that I guess are largely under the "Paul within Judaism" umbrella?) in some forum. It sometimes feels to me like the younger scholars overstate their differences at least a tad, but I'm no academic.

[@jeromemausling6324]

There is a video online of Campbell "attacking" Wright in a panel discussion. Shameful display by Campbell. (I think it's on the Duke uni channel)

[@ryanfisher848]

13:30 if we argue that Paul was using the literary device known as prosopopeoa, we have to do so stylistically/syntactically. Otherwise, we can’t know when Paul is speaking and when it’s him impersonating his opposer’s arguments.

[@Joesfosterdogs]

I wish you would discuss much more on how you deal with "wrestling with it" and how this may cause uncertainty within...how do you deal with this uncertainty in all your readings?

[@JoshWashington]

11:25 Seriously, you just have to read Luthers preface to Romans to see this... "The first duty of a preacher of the Gospel is, through his revealing of the law and of sin, to rebuke and to turn into sin everything in life that does not have the Spirit and faith in Christ as its base. Thereby he will lead people to a recognition of their miserable condition, and thus they will become humble and yearn for help. This is what St Paul does...."

[@jeromemausling6324]

This is a misrepresentation of gospel preaching. Nowhere in the NT is there an appeal to the law as prelude to preaching the gospel. The law was part of the covenant of Israel for the nation of Israel. The law was not written for gentiles and isn't a prerequisite for preparation of the gospel message. 2 Cor 3 ... direct reference to the law written with God's own finger is referred to a ministry of death

[@RighteousReport]

Good Review 🙏🏾. I think we must keep in mind letter readers and different voices. What caused me to accept it is Paul's Christology in that he would never consider anything "clearly" revealing God other than Jesus. Especially creation. Those people weren't atheists they believed false gods created everything. Also, the consistent use of "them" in chapter 1, which is consistent with how he flips it on the "you" to the teachers who are judging "them." Nor would he say the doers of the law are justified. Considering he flips it on its head in his conclusion of that thought. It's a mockery. But yes, The Deliverance of God is good!

[@stephengorman1025]

The Gospel was announced clearly by John the Baptist, 'Behold the Lamb of God who takes away the Sin of the World.' Jesus confirmed this by saying 'If I be lifted up I will draw all people to myself' and praying 'Father forgive them they know not what they do.' The Spirit has been sent to write God's Law on our hearts to enable the Church to witness (by word and deed) to the truth, goodness and beauty of Christ. The aim is the reconciliation of all things (Colossians 1v15-20) and the fulfilment of the original covenant 'Let us make Mankind (Adam) in our image. Romans 11v32-36. To God be the Glory, Grace and Peace

[@richardbowker1338]

I got the doorstopper for just £3. Weird. I like the approach without being totally persuaded. But a warning is that the Big Book is incredibly repetitious. I think a good editor was needed. Hopefully the shorter version solves that.😊

[@anthonybarber3872]

Therefore, being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ...Romans 5:1-2.

[@WSILAB072]

Hi I like the box metaphor. It will be really helpfull to make a box for all 3 views

[@jeffstormer2547]

this would be very much in line with rabbinic thought. not only would a talmid/disciple be required to learn his rabhi's teaching but also those of his adversaries for the express purpose of responding to their teachings. ill have to read this bc most westerners don't get the jewish context of the Text: historical , cultural, literary, and linguistic. even the gentiles most scholars refer to like luke were totally dependent on their jewish brethren for access to the text.

[@alanhawkins_44]

Brian Zahnd is the signal that he’s headed toward a viewpoint from the early Greek Fathers.

[@jeromemausling6324]

What do you mean by this?

[@KingoftheJuice18]

Paul seems to me like a kind of perfectionist struggling with his intrenched guilt. But instead of accepting that, of course, you can't be perfect and God's doesn't expect this, Paul comes to believe that God needs to end the entire system of commandments, with its divine expectations, through a one-time self-sacrifice. But, nevertheless, Paul does vigorously insist on people fulfilling the Torah's laws of love and morality to a high degree, and so it's difficult to understand why he couldn't simply have taken the route of allowing God to be merciful and forgiving of our imperfections and failings. Theologically, it doesn't make sense why Paul became so fixated on the idea of the necessary crucifixion of Jesus, but biographically the answer is probably found in Paul's personal religious struggles and experiences.

[@JoshWashington]

Campbell writing a short book? I don't believe it. It must be pseudonymous.

[@stephengorman1025]

Try reading Paul an Apostle's Journey it is both short and illuminating.

[@brianmidmore2221]

Is Paul explaining the gospel in Romans? He does this in 1 Cor 15. I think he is explaining who are the people of God. Those who believe in Jesus both Jew and Gentile are God's people (the righteous). There is no condemnation for these people because they walk in the Spirit. I.e they are on the path of righteousness.

[@harrygarris6921]

Post reformation there was a re-imagining of the gospel message away from the resurrection and towards the atonement and justification. It's clear that this was not about recovering the gospel that the apostles themselves preached, because if that was the goal it would closely resemble St. Peter's Pentecost sermon in Acts 2. The atonement + justification gospel message sounds nothing like St. Peter's sermon, or the Corinthian creed in 1 Corinthians 15 either. It's not an attempt to be apostolic it's more about neatly packing a specific theological paradigm into an elevator pitch.

[@brianmidmore2221]

@@harrygarris6921 For Paul the Law is negative when in the flesh (his Jewish heritage) but positive when in the Spirit. The cross and resurrection have not negated the Law but transformed it. Nowhere does he suggest that the Law in the flesh is the starting point for the Gentiles. They do not have the Law in the flesh but through faith in Jesus they now have the Law written on their heart and as a result do the the Law.

[@harrygarris6921]

@@Stashley78 I already said, Acts chapter 2.

[@Stashley78]

@@harrygarris6921 Yes you did say Acts 2. And 1 Cor 15. Apologies for my misread and irrelevant comment question (now deleted). Thank you, sir!