Is Mace Tyrell a Secret Genius? (ASOIAF Theory Feat. Fantasy Haven!)

Hello everyone! Today I'm going over the theory that Mace Tyrell is a secret mastermind in #asongoficeandfire. This video is a collaboration with the wonderful Fantasy Haven (‪@fantasyhaven1‬ ) you should absolutely check out his links below. He's a great dude and a fantastic ASOIAF content creator. What do you think? Is there anything I missed? What do you think of #houseofthedragon so far? Be sure to leave a comment, as well as like the video and subscribe if you enjoy. More #asoiaf content is on the way!
Subscribe to Fantasy Haven! / @fantasyhaven1
Tyrell History video on his channel: • The History of House T...
Art in this video is by TheMico!
Art by Roman Papsuev (Amok)
Music by Kevin McLeod (Shadowlands 4 - Breath)
Footage from GoT used under fair use.
My Twitter: / quinnthegm
00:00 Schemes of Ice and Fire
00:31 Lord Mace Tyrell
01:00 Recent Tyrell History
01:26 Robert's Rebellion
03:17 Mace and Willas
03:40 A Game of Thrones
04:02 A Clash of Kings
05:51 A Storm of Swords
07:04 A Feast for Crows
07:57 A Dance with Dragons
08:17 The Winds of Winter
09:19 Is Mace a Secret Genius?
10:20 Conclusions

[@pharawoahthesecond7551]

He's been called stupid openly in the book, that makes him the smartest person in Westeros

[@anonymous-hz2un]

Stannis is smart and look where that got him 🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️

[@rummyz6412]

@@anonymous-hz2unu must be talking abt the show cause stannis doin fine in the books

[@DominionSorcerer]

@@rummyz6412 I mean. Fine might be stretching it, he's still stuck in the middle of a winter storm with little to no food and even less horses.

[@goldenlockx]

@@DominionSorcererfewer

[@Bobbibouchersmumwasright]

He is what we refer to as simple.. people do not real-eyes (sorry) realise it’s a gift to be simple.

[@nicodemusedwards6931]

I don’t think Mace is as dumb as people think he is, but he’s also not a hyper genius. I think he’s smart enough to realize that everyone needs him so much that he doesn’t really have to try to get most of what he wants.

[@Force-Multiplier]

I feel this is the actual right take here he's not stupid nor especially smart he's just in a very beneficial position

[@Lord_Imperion55]

agreed i think he is not dumb but not a genius

[@Buzterer]

Mace sounds competent enough to not actively screw over the advantages comming his way. An aparently very rare ability in our world

[@maemorri]

It seems very representative of his house. Everyone else is fighting for power like wild animals: wolves and lions and stags. The Riverland trout is consumed as spoils in the fighting. Meanwhile House Tyrell hardly fight at all. Just sit back... Growing Strong.

[@jer2689]

He's smart enough to stay as far away from Cersei as possible😅

[@outerik90]

​@maemorri " why grab at the cake with others when you can have the loaf for yourself"

[@fantasyhaven1]

This was lots of fun! Thanks for giving me the time to objectively prove Mace Tyrell is an 8D Chess Grand Champion

[@warlordofbritannia]

Mace will Fool’s Mate himself to victory!

[@twelve11]

Brilliant video. I always quote this line from the special features of season 2 Game of Thrones, when GRRM was heavily involved with the show: it is the last line of the lore video about House Tyrell, spoken by Margaery and sums up perfectly the purpose of the Tyrell family in the books: We returned to Highgarden to manage the affairs of the Reach as we had for thousands of years... and will for a thousand more. Other great houses take lions and wolves for their sigils and draw their power from the gold in their mountains or the cold of their winters. But mountains run dry, winters yield to spring AND THE ROSE BLOOMS ONCE MORE

[@RobHel]

If not a 16D chess master...

[@petermann673]

These collabs are always a treat!

[@adamantiiispencespence4012]

I'm a middle grounder on this one I think Mace is likely a good deal smarter and more capable than he's given credit for but not a genius. There's no way Olenna as Mama Tyrell raised a fool and I do think he relies on being underestimated just like she does. Though, I think it's a role and strategy the Queen of Thorns has foisted on him and he's terribly insecure about it. Hence why he pressured 2 if his 3 boys into being Uber warriors.

[@dr0g_Oakblood]

Fairly good take honestly

[@gokbay3057]

He pressured his oldest son into it as well, Willas just couldn't become an uber warrior like his little brothers because he was crippled.

[@warlordofbritannia]

Casual readers: Hehe, Mace is such a moron People with too much free time: Mace is the key to all of this 400 IQ: Mace the Ace is too stupid to lose

[@outerik90]

If people think he is no threat then they might aswell try to use him for themselves, the downside being that he might not help as much as he might hurt the cause.

[@twelve11]

Being a devoted and loyal Tyrell fan, id like to believe Mace is a genius, but it doesnt matter because he's surrounded by incredibly powerful, intelligent and accomplished family members and bannermen, he only needs to be the face and it allows them to steer scenarios in their favour, but i always bring this up: the Tyrell's are not main characters, their purpose is simply to provide immediate resources,, infantry and strength to whomever they back and having always been loyal Targaryen followers... thats all the reader needs to know.

[@victordz4212]

Mace is not a genius, he's just a good son who listen to his mother lmao Olenna is the true mind behind the roses.

[@Rizz779]

@@victordz4212Olenna and soon to be heir Willas

[@cherylbaxter8986]

@@victordz4212 absolutely lady Olenna is the power of house Tyrrell

[@ivanbluecool]

Mace is the definition of "he's doing his best"

[@warlordofbritannia]

Like a dumb puppy. A very dumb puppy.

[@mysteryjunkie9808]

He’s falling upwards

[@warlordofbritannia]

@@mysteryjunkie9808 He broke the Peter Principle and created the Rule of Mace

[@Utilizador-gs3lx]

He's the participaiton award

[@baswar]

Tbf the targ loyalty makes some sense if you consider the fact that the targs gave them highgarden and the reach. Like the Manderlys appear to be super stark loyalists because they gave them the White habour

[@mysteryjunkie9808]

Yes if you look at Tyrells they’ve been loyal to House Targaryen through every Blackfyre Rebellion but also during the Dance of the Dragons they where the only major House to remain neutral because since it was Targ vs Targ they didn’t want to get involved

[@mappingshaman5280]

​@mysteryjunkie9808 it was more because at the time house tyrell was ruled by the mother of lord tyrell whom was 0 years old, so she didn't want to risk her son dying in the war.

[@seanp2871]

I suspect that he is more intelligent than we've been led to believe. Olenna is definitely still heavily involved, but she couldn't do anything without his approval (given the sexism of Westeros). Most likely, he is collaborating with her, and the two of them play up his buffoonishness to make negotiations easier. After all, if his mother is openly calling him a buffoon, then people who treat with him might not realize he's getting everything in any deals he makes. It's a ploy and they're in it together.

[@micahmcfadden8082]

Exactly this was apparent to me on the second read when he treatss w tywin and likely little finger olenna was not there he also makes the decision and suggestions at council meeting while she isnt present theres no way hes dumb they definitely work in tandem she down plays herself as a weak elderly frail woman him as a big proud lazy oaf and play the game

[@benderthepirate]

“The Reach is relatively in tact.” Euron: “is that a challenge?” 😈

[@EyePatchGuy88]

If Euron gets his way, it won't just be the Reach that'll suffer.

[@Plasmathedeathjester]

I prefer the idea he just sorta stumbled into success. It happens sometimes by accident, not everyone has to be a bond villain that's 4 steps ahead of everyone with all these plots

[@mysteryjunkie9808]

He falls upwards. But he has actually made some good decisions throughout his life time

[@warlordofbritannia]

@@mysteryjunkie9808 For example: his listens to his mom

[@yetipotato8567]

More like was born to success and then doing his most to not rock the boat and does the just the things he is required as a vassal.

[@genericname4575]

Laying siege is a common battle tactic but as it's not an entirely direct confrontation, despite the fact that he was literally starving out Stannis, the martial lords of Westeros don't take it as actively harming him. Great optics. So, with Robert winning, he suffered no loss to his power. But had Storm's end fallen, both of Robert's brothers would have been captured. Incredibly valuable hostages. Even if he didn't capture the castle, if the Targayens won, he'd still be considered one of their greatest allies. What sort of reward do you give such a man...? A betrothal. Margery with Prince Aegon, or with Viserys if Aerys disinherited Rheagar's line.

[@GallowglassVT]

If he is, he's kept it well hidden. Gotta respect the commitment to the bit.

[@keno9636]

I honestly don't mind whether Mace is a genius or a dork, I admire him for being a proper family-man in a world where all fathers treat their family like cattle.

[@facundogonza5740]

I know this is a joking video. But has anyone noticed that Tyrells have so far to get ANY PoV? The only thing we know of them is what OTHER people think of them. It is hard to see what they think. And the few times they lost control, we actually see that they are VERY dangerous. Loras went on a berserk rage and killed around three (Supposedly) skilled Knights. And is in fact a surprisingly cunning tactician if his joust agaist Gregor says anything. Margaery has ALWAYS been aware of Cersei's game and was one uping her left and right. So yeah while I think Mace is no genius, I doubt he is an idiot.

[@thing_under_the_stairs]

Good points! There have been many times when I'd have paid real money to know what was going on in Olenna or Margery's heads; I'd never paused to think that the inside of Mace's head might be just as interesting as those of his mother and daughter!

[@lol-hy4mk]

"Mom and don't forget to make sure that Stark girl thinks I' m a dumbass, it's very important"

[@cynfaelalek-walker7003]

I mean, everyone underestimated Wyman Manderly before the revelation of his plot in Dance.

[@jwatt1800]

I’m disappointed that you guys didn’t mention Mace “not noticing” Oberyn slipping poison in Tywin’s cup during the trial

[@GreyWasteTim]

Genius or not, the perception that the Tyrells are ruled by women are undermining him in the eyes of his vassal - Randyl Tarly - who may be one of the "friends in the Reach" championing (f)Aegon's cause.

[@mysteryjunkie9808]

Until Faegon decides to marry Margery

[@eurongreyjoy1008]

nah. he is taking a dornish girl

[@nunyabiznes33]

​@@eurongreyjoy1008Griff gaij nothing of value allying with the Dornish and got everything to lose if he can't sway the Tyrells to his side.

[@thngvbts5182]

there is nothing to prove this outside of the outlandish tarly's betrayal of the show... there's more ground for the tyrell themselves being the "friends of the reach"

[@niallgaffney2475]

I always thought Renly was smarter than he got credit for, and played the fool to his advantage. If it wasn’t for a dark magic he couldn’t possibly have known about, he’d have become a hugely popular king with minimal bloodshed.

[@Commanber]

"Renly is unfortunately killed, probably by Brienne of Tarth"

[@firelow]

In Mace Tyrell's POV yeah

[@mysteryjunkie9808]

The Virgin Book Reader: Mace is a oaf that has just gotten lucky The Chad Crusader Kings Players:Mace has the Genius and Intricate Web Weaver traits.

[@danksmeme698]

Smart or Dumb, you gotta love him! He's so unassuming and goofy that I can't help but admire him, especially considering the schadenfreude world he lives in

[@PhilHibbs]

Surely five council members is a Tyrell Flush. Tyroyal Flush?

[@whitewolfofthewhills]

I like to think that he's made aware of and is actively working WITH Olenna's plans, but that he ultimately defers to her guidance. A competent lord who is powerful due to the resources of his region and not selfsabotaging, but I'd hardly consider him a political mastermind.

[@mysteryjunkie9808]

The only 2 people that are better off now than they were T at the beginning are Littlefinger and Mace.

[@niccolorichter1488]

So i want to make it clear Olenna deosnt head Tyrell family She specificly complains how is Mace idea to make Margery Queen And Loras who make the plan to support Renly She dint like neither of these ideas , yet she could do anything becase is Mace who is the lord D and D really make Mace idiot and give the impression that Olenna rules the family why nothing can be futher from the truth in the books This changed is also seen by show scenes between Olenna and Tywin , why in the books is multiple times mentioned that Tywin is having dinners with Mace and nobody else , except one time with Oberyn ( man who Mace hates)

[@matthewparker9276]

​@@niccolorichter1488, I think Olenna is at the very least exaggerating, if not outright faking, her exasperation with Mace. Despite he reputation for indiscretion she is very cunning, and it serves her well for others to underestimate her son. I think they work together behind the scenes much like Doran and Oberyn did.

[@misabelrodriguez1163]

Mace didnt refuse Tywin on his own though. At first he was seriously considering saying yes, but his mom the Queen of Thorns stopped it by saying Cersei was "too old and too used"

[@Sinewmire]

The man spends his time doing what he likes, and spent a bloody war camping out and feasting. Sounds pretty smart to me!

[@eurongreyjoy1008]

cant wait for the mace tyrell-jon connington interaction

[@MacTac141]

As a sub to both channels loving these collabs! Hope to see more of them in the future as you guys have great chemistry

[@handlejl225]

This dialogue format is so much fun to watch ! Another excellent video

[@aegorbittersteel2154]

Secret genius or not House Peake is better they would be running The Reach at Peak Performance

[@mysteryjunkie9808]

Boltons should rule the North, Freys the Riverlands and Peake the Reach. The Others wouldn’t stand a damn chance

[@juliansalazar2655]

Big Brain Mace, the only lord in Westeros with velcro shoes.

[@saltysaltmaker3848]

He's definitely an effective facesitter and planner for reasons people have already commented. 'But what about Olena? She says he's stupid!' Well yeah, but that could easily be her being a grumpy old woman whose son isn't do exactly what she says...or it's misdirection maybe, and she's a pulling a Doran/Oberyn esque misdirection where the rose hides the thorns. Other people point out his saying what Robb should do when he was cut off from the north is stupid...but it's then moreorless what Robb ended up planning anyway.

[@Farron6]

I actually like the concept of Mace Tyrell and his Mother being a lot more coordinated in their plotting than we are led to believe. The fact that Mace, one of the most powerful lords in the seven kingdoms actively encourages his Mother to talk shit about him at Court to make his opponents underestimate him and House Tyrell in general despite the fact they have the largest army as well as wealth second only to the Lannisters is such a GRR Martin thing to do.

[@thalmoragent9344]

Him standing around at Storm's End during Robert's Rebellion was 100% a power move. He, like Tywin, weren't interested in chosing any side except for the winner. It kinda goes to show how Robert and even Joffery were right. Overall, one unified Westerosi army is what's needed for their nation to truly thrive. Less infighting, more advancements in society, tech, etc. They're not loyal to the King or Crown, its their own self interest. They're all basically "kings" of their own Kingdoms, albeit they're more like "Petty Kings" compared to the one High King, which was often a Targaryen.

[@timgray1664]

I think Mace is supposed to be a criticism of people getting the credit and reward for things just because they're in power rather than the actual lesser-known people who are responsible for those things

[@bonnafide2606]

Interesting topic. I love Alt Schwift X and Glidus' take on this in one of Glidus' streams discussing ASoIAF theories. They theorized that Mace wore a massive helmet to protect his giant brain. I suspect he could be the Darth Jar Jar of Westeros.

[@kirklandbailey1211]

I watch every video you and Fantasy Haven upload. I especially like these team up videos!

[@ikki6792]

Personally, I don't think of Mace as a huge moron; he's most likely just airheaded but competent enough to not do stupid decisions (like banning beets)

[@safruddinaly5822]

It's pretty intriguing how Tyrrell in recent era being portrayed not bright while the past era as the steward they are epitome of bright mind

[@fairshareofdrownedsouls]

Interesting video. I side more with Quinn on this [9:30 - 10:04] but fantasyhaven's presence was a fun addition and thank you both for your efforts on this video 👍🏾

[@bloodmods]

i love seeing you guys collab! great video!

[@leminnie7]

Great collaboration! Love learning from these wise guys!

[@Baileaf11]

Mace Tyrell will become King in Winds of winter

[@tatalsaba]

Actually a very interesting take on anoften overlooked character, and some convincing, well thought-out points.

[@raioliveiragomes9335]

Great video indeeed thank u

[@LoneWolfOfHouseStark1989]

Another great collab video. Would love to see you guys do a livestream with InDeepGeek

[@michaelamurphy845]

I love your videos- also the tyrells I really hope they live

[@JoshuaKevinPerry]

He's still alive is what he is. And that's a win

[@markhenzel4637]

2:28 I smile ear to ear, listening to that. Really King Who Cares. STANNIS!!! STANNIS!!! STANNIS!!!🏇🏇🏇

[@mikochristiansen3444]

I missed your last sopranos post so here's a couple: What kind of animal gets poisoned at his own wedding? Quaithe, Daenerys... she even exist? In this house Lomas Longstrider is a hero. End of story!

[@RedHairedWarlord]

Mace the Ace!

[@thenops7186]

Right? Dude always been "him" 😅 he's been killing it for years

[@arianweneverett3910]

To both of you, good work. However, I have to disagree about Olenna being part of the assassination of Joffrey. Other than Littlefinger's word, there is no proof. Show Olenna clearly did it, but as mentioned in this video, the risk that Margaery would drink the poison instead of, or along side her new husband, was too great for Tyrell involvement. The rest of the analysis was spot on and makes me wonder about Mace's role.

[@Mr135Jonathan]

This theory (though I'm not sure if I believe it) would make Mace a reflection of Littlefinger, in that instead of just the in-book characters all being fooled by him, we the readers were fooled. Both use "feign incompetence" to trick people into trusting them, Petyr coming from small beginnings and Mace being an Oaf.

[@uriustosh]

Unironically the best dad in Westeros.

[@QuinnTheGM]

If Willas didn’t exist I’d agree

[@vortega472]

Not saying Mace is a genius - but he ain't dumb. With fortunes changing with the shift of the wind in GoT, and impulsive people dying quick deaths, I can why moving slow is the best strategy. There's a reason why the turtle won the race over the hare.

[@nathanscarlett4772]

I felt the air quotes cmt energy before you explained it a second later lol

[@theozuretti6091]

I burst out laughing at 3:40, the idea of Mace just being afk for 20 years is so funny

[@josh10722]

I never thought he was an idiot, just pompous. On top of all the points others are making, when we see him organize troops to march on the high sparrows i got the impression that there was serious military coordination and discipline by their lock-step formations. I know Jaimie rolled his eyes at the “madness has had its day!” Speech, but i liked it, and personally i think that his flattering and arrogant personality detract from the perception of his logistical mind.

[@Elhombrequemurio]

Hell yeah, more Quinn, and with Fantasy Haven too! On a side note, when do you think WOW is coming out? If it ever will?

[@QuinnTheGM]

The estimate given last October of 400-500 words to go is really positive to me. Call me delusional but I’m hoping 24/25.

[@alfieingrouille1528]

@@QuinnTheGM I love the vids I have Been watching them for a while now so I finally decided to subscribe keep up the good work you absolute mad lad 😁

[@Elhombrequemurio]

@@QuinnTheGM God I hope so. I hope you keep making videos to keep me updated 👍

[@thehelmsfamily5397]

Well well well! I came into this happy for a new video and ready to laugh! Now I have a new found respect for Lord Mace! Mace the MF Lace! Geez

[@domenicconte3951]

Mace Tyrell is the George W. Bush of Westeros.

[@jf_kein_k8590]

First time seeing Margaerys depiction by artist TheMico. Goddamn.

[@fabvz5436]

I am sure George is frustrated that five books in and he didn't had a single Tyrel POV or a scene in Highgarden

[@mysteryjunkie9808]

I want a Willis Tyrell POV the Chad of Highgarden

[@eurongreyjoy1008]

he may add one. i know he said he will not but you never know with this guy

[@hresvelgr7193]

I feel like that was intentional to keep readers guessing about what's going on behind the scenes and there will be a Tyrell POV in Winds of Winter

[@adambarleyii3357]

Let's go

[@HaroldTheHerald]

he just doesnt want to die

[@devoralynblackwood2785]

Good luck at Law School! I hope that you have time to drink some fiercely strong cider with your classmates ;)

[@ndep93]

Same vibes as Little Carmine being a secret genius. The sacred and the propane!

[@HolasoyMai]

It would be great if you make a video about the Brienne killing Renly theory

[@didacfg8811]

I really like house Tyrell, I expect that they have a good ending in the books, not like in the series

[@facundomedina9762]

“his family is strategically placed” his daughter a prisoner of the faith, and his son fighting for his life in Dragonstone (if the news are true)

[@flavius5722]

She is not imprison anymore ,she still has to go to a trial but she is not in prison ,how that old septa put it : " Our young king isn't alone your grace , the queen is always with him " And there are also hints in the Ariane Martell chapters that Margery had already won the trial

[@liamdenise246]

i'd say he is cleverer then he looks or lets on, waiting at Storms end and sending a force under Randyll Tarly to chase Robert out of the Reach is a good move, he loses little, makes himself look loyal to crown by sending a army to stop Robert, and yet by simply laying siege and allowing feasts and tourneys outside storms end if the rebellion wins, then he hasn't pissed them off by killing the new kings brothers and taking Storms end. He also is wise enough to suspect Robert Strong and is able to correctly realise if he sends all his forces to the Reach to fight the ironborn, take Dragonstone and march on Aegon, then his daughter will be defenceless and likely her trial will be rigged, so he makes a smart move to vow not to go unless his daughter wins her trial, thus ensuring if Cersei or the faith try anything he's got a big army able to quickly take the city. But he's still not that bright, nowhere near Olenna or Tywin.

[@raylast3873]

I mean whether it was Mace‘s or Olenna‘s doing, the Tyrells definitely played their cards right, and have managed to benefit massively from the Lannister‘s self-sabotage. Yeah, sure, being Lords of the Reach is a pretty good power base, but you don‘t win the Game of Thrones by default, and what is won can be easily lost. When the events started, the Tyrells were not in a dominant position among the Great Houses. Careful maneuvering or not, their side lost during the Rebellion and despite Robert being pretty cool about it, his time on the throne was very much marked by the Houses that won him the throne: Baratheons, Lannisters, and Arryns or their Bannermen dominated the government and Houses Stark and Tully undoubtedly still had personal ties to Robert. When it came to war, it was always Eddard and Stannis that Robert turned to. So that was the Situation before the clash of kings. At the end of it, the Tyrells have almost all the power in King‘s landing. And I don‘t think you can chalk this up to sitting things out or winning by default. The War of Five kings is a fairly complex political and military conflict, on par with the 30 Years War, or the Sengoku Jidai. You don‘t win at those just because of luck or you happened to have some power before. Look at how the Tyrell‘s erstwhile allies have fared: Renly is dead. The Lannisters imploded. And the other contenders for the crown have also fallen. The Starks, Tullys and Baratheons are basically removed from the political map and their holdings given to other houses. It doesn‘t really matter who is the brains of House Tyrell, they clearly outplayed their rivals. And they can still come out on top later on: if Aegon‘s campaign is successful they are perfectly placed to ditch Tommen and offer to wed Margaery to Young Griff. He gets King‘s Landing without lossesnand Mace‘s Grandchildren still end up on the Iron Throne (if not for Daenaerys etc). I think one thing that stands out about the Tyrells is that, like Eddard‘s and Doran‘s families, they stick together. The Tyrells don‘t sabotage each other like the Lannisters and Baratheons, they play on the same team the whole time and don‘t lose sight of the big picture over petty grievances. Imagine if Tywin or Stannis had a gay son, the resulting generational trauma would have been visible from orbit. But not everyone is like that: Loras gets to do his thing, his relationship with Renly leads to a pretty good political alliance for them; Renly can‘t marry a dude, no problem for Mace who also has a daughter, Renly can marry her as a beard (and for heirs) and everyone is apparently happy. No one getting traumatized, murdered in the toilet or framed for regicide. Everyone gets to do their thing. I bet if Mace had a dwarf for a son who happened to be pretty good at this politics thing, his family would not have ended up trying to murder him.

[@TheDeadlyKnight]

I does seem like Mace & the Golden Roses are experts at ‘unmerited’ advancement. The effect seems to be that objection to their newly acquired primacies is never widespread.

[@taylorbeckett9686]

It's a bit of both I'd reckon

[@jammysmears4077]

Probably by Brienne of Tarth? But we were there, man, we were there in Catelyn's head!

[@sebastianstammer9265]

The best friendship in the fandom

[@TheZoan007]

In a way he might be like Littlefinger. Everybody percieves him as a non threat, but his plans are more detailed than they seem

[@danc5644]

Mace is the epidome of circumstance. He was born in the right place with the right station with the right name. He never did wrong, while simultaneously remaining unremarkable. Murphies law dictates he wins through established advantage, rather than skill. The man assumes his success and seems innocent to the benefit of those more devious around him who keep him in their best interest. The man lives a perfectly cultivated life.

[@invincibleluis]

A genius playing as a fool in the chess game of life.

[@bradwolf07]

Yeah, Mace telling Tywin ""F*** No!" No one wants to risk marrying that psycho of Cersei

[@mysteryjunkie9808]

He has to draw the line somewhere.

[@bradwolf07]

@@mysteryjunkie9808 True, and we found the line where Mace draws it

[@NR-fd9wv]

if mace turns out to be a genius, i will immediately assume that willas just pretends he cannot walk

[@mysteryjunkie9808]

Imagine Wilias being Margery champion in her trial by combat. The High Sparrow laughing their asses of them he just sprints towards their champion and kills him in one shot

[@NR-fd9wv]

@@mysteryjunkie9808 and then getting back in the wheelchair, claiming it was divine intervention that allowed him to use his legs briefly. people think the gods ensure that the side who is right will win in trial by combat, so this would seem like the ultimate proof.

[@justdirt]

Mace is not a mastermind, but he definitely is not dumb. The resources of the Reach make them the most essential kingdom and he uses that as leverage when needed. His army is massive but he never sends them to fight in conflicts that have little to gain. His sons are in very important positions, his daughter is queen, his mom has all the resources in the world to scheme and plan. He 100% puts himself in situations to succeed. Olena may be the smartest Tyrell, but Mace is definitely not some idiot. He very much could just be a himbo spoiling his kids, but he comes out favorably way to often to be dumb. People don't fail upwards that often in these books and when they do its almost guarantied that their shortcomings will be revealed. Again, I don't think he is some mastermind, he definitely acts goofy and can be slow on the uptake, but when there is a conflict, only Mace comes out better than they went in with.

[@ruigerd]

Mace wears all those enormous hats to hide his big brain

[@Matt-vh2ci]

He is a dark lord of the siths, just like jar jar binks

[@igobybign6747]

Honestly I'm convinced the mace Is very slow but it always works out in his favor and he easily has the strongest hand in westoros rn

[@spadinnerxylaphone2622]

I think the truth is somewhere in the middle. He's not a supergenius, but he's not an idiot. He got some lucky cards and played them adequately. I do think his mother is the "woman behind the man", but he's wise enough to listen to her and maybe plays up his own stupidity a bit.

[@thelastgreyjoy8555]

The battle of blood might end with Willis dying at the burning of high garden while Garlen joining the kings guard only to die in a trial by combat .

[@D2attemp]

Honestly Rhaeghar should have commanded Mace to lend him Randyll Tarly and parts of his forces when he and the Dornish army was marching through the Stormlands towards the Trident. That would have tipped the balance in his favour against Robert, the garrison in Storm’s End were not strong enough to mount a counter attack against even 1/4 the power of the Reach, so it was dumb of Rhaeghar to leave all these soldiers at Storm’s End doing nothing. Also the most advantageous marriage alliance for Daenerys would be Willas Tyrell when she returns to Westeros, because as Petyr Baelish said if you’re going to fight Lannister you want to befriend Tyrells. Of course this is assuming that the books follow the show and have Margaery die at the Great Sept of Baelor.

[@RW77777777]

does Mace know about The Sacred and the Propane?

[@ToucanBinks]

👍

[@micahmcfadden8082]

Olenna is his mother how could he not possess some low cunning

[@Emperorofthemoon1]

He's likely not moving very fast against Aegon for the same reasons he was slow against Robert and in the War of the Five Kings: he's leaving the possibility of a new alliance open. Aegon is unmarried. Margaery is only betrothed to Tommen, not yet married. Lannisters are dropping like flies in the capital, and the most powerful Lannisters are currently in the Riverlands subduing a guerilla band of outlaws. If the winds change, Mace can secure an alliance with Aegon via Margaery and throw open the gates to the Golden Company. It also happens that his unwed eldest son is close in age to the unwed daughter of Doran Martell. This is a bit of a stretch, but could the friendship between Oberyn and Willas have brought the families closer together, only keeping up the appearance of being bitter rivals to throw off their other enemies?

[@thelasthokage4347]

Mace as a genius is hilarious. Cheers guys!

[@mrshinybald2739]

Randal tarley is one of maces bannermen so yeah he did win

[@rodribara]

please make the two voices at the same level of volume, the second is to low or the first too high and I have to change the volume,

[@hughcurran6817]

It takes the wise man to play the fool. Though in this case, no, his actions at the seige of storms end show him as pompus and full of himself. If anyway dangerous a player varys would have him included more in his web.

[@griffin3508]

Is mace acting foolish the same way Pycelle acts old and feeble, I kind of see it.

[@darthJ9]

It ain't much but it's honest work - Mace