Is Marinette Problematic? ⎮A Miraculous Ladybug Season 4 Discussion

[@regularpotato]

The writers need to change her obsessiveness and the cringe. It's ridiculous at this point

[@craftyrainbovv]

Ya :/

[@kenziejeager4454]

@@mairelli luka is a one dimensional character sweetheart 😌💅

[@AdoboSoGuud]

@@kenziejeager4454 Both are problematic

[@kenziejeager4454]

@@AdoboSoGuud true

[@goneforevers]

@@mairelli your like one of those pepole who says Video games cause "you know what"

[@anxiousdumpling5041]

It still bothers me that people in the show are actually aware of Marinette's obsessiveness and how she stalks Adrien, but almost no one calls her out or is disturbed by it. Sometimes they even encourage it *and I don't know why* It also really bothers me that Ladybug treats Chat Noir like a sidekick. Like, the show is literally called "Miraculous: Tales of Ladybug & Chat Noir" yet they push Chat to the side.

[@linalag7051]

Yes!!!

[@thunderlightningbolt6597]

Miraculous ladybug logic Being an obsessive stalker is cute and your friends will think it's funny and encourage you to keep doing it.

[@craftyrainbovv]

I don’t like Marinette at all :/

[@mairelli]

No it's everyone else that treats him like a sidekick the news reporters always talk more about ladybug and they is no blog about chat noir yes I get that it would make sense for it to be called the ladyblog bc it sounds nicer but they treat ladybug like she is the leader

[@thunderlightningbolt6597]

@@mairelli Accurate title = Miraculous Tales of Ladybug. Oh yeah and the cat guy too. Poor guy. Never gets the credit even though he saved the city with Ladybug many, MANY times. The news reporters should be giving him some credit.

[@little.prince]

I'm so happy she was way less creepy in the special. Let's hope that's something they keep up for s4 UPDATE: This comment has aged poorly.

[@jamessmart3799]

The only time she was creepy was when she smiled at the adrien thing in the beginning... that was a cursed image

[@mairelli]

She actually was normal with adrien

[@cerenity3578]

I don't think so or because it's just a 2 minute special guide to staying safe from Covid, but she even complimented his sneeze. 🤔

[@little.prince]

@@cerenity3578 That's not creepy though. Creepy is getting into his house without permission and talking and making out with statues of him. I mean I've complimented my girlfriend's sneeze.

[@cerenity3578]

@@little.prince Oh maybe i'm too young to get that and just found it weird.

[@LyraValley]

But the thing is that she isn't only mean to Chat when he's being overly flirty (in which case yes, she should be firm and make her boundaries clear), she does it all the time. Like usually whenever she makes a mistake he is very supportive of her and tries to lift up her mood. Whenever he makes a mistake she often mocks him and acts superior, bringing him down.

[@linalag7051]

Yes! Exactly

[@mairelli]

In reflekdoll there was no need for her to be that rude to him when adrien didn't do something how she does it

[@linalag7051]

@@mairelli right?! Like honestly I don't get how people like that episode or ladynoire when she was so mean to him for no good reason

[@cerenity3578]

People mostly enjoyed that episode and gave it praise cause they switched kwamis, the transformations were different and good, and they really liked how they looked. Tho I do agree this is the biggest problem with it. She is literally even more mean to him as a female cat noir. Like Adrien/Mr.Bug doesn't know much about her powers and is struggling cause it's his first time with them, yet she is still literally getting all the spotlight and stuff and being selfish as usual while also showing off and even hit his head cause he's not figuring it out immediately like her. I don't find this funny or a joke, she has to understand it's his first time! And just cause his powers is easier and can be learned in a few minutes, doesn't mean urs can learned easily for the other as well. I seriously hate this bratty selfish side of Marinette whenever she's a superhero, it's also confirmed when they are in that form, it's what they really want to be and if Marinette wants to actually be like that, it makes me look at her more differently and in a bad way. In my opinion she is kinda problematic for the most part, but the show can still improve on that if they do it right. Also, he is even treated as a sidekick as male Ladybug, and i'm like bruh..... 🙄🙄

[@linalag7051]

@@cerenity3578 not to mention when she wasn't getting it, when they first started being superheros, chat comforted her and gave her confidence saying that she can do it and will get the hang of it! But when he was having trouble, she was basically just like 'wow you suck'

[@gemmsp441]

I think the biggest problem is that the writers don't give her consequences for her actions, and if they do, they're reversed by bunnix or forgotten by the next episode. If she had consequences, or if alya called her out on her bs like she should, it would be chillin.

[@alyssapinon9670]

Reminds me of what my favorite shows right now have in common. Bojack horseman, never have I ever, and my brilliant friend all have flawed, complex, but sympathetic characters who face consequences for their actions. The writers help us understand their actions without justifying it

[@liaheben]

Don't remind me Animaestro, were after bullying Kagami and trying to humiliate her in public she got a seat next to Adrien.

[@eyelove_owlcity]

Marinette is like a deer caught in the headlights of love. I think that's why she's so obsessed with Adrien.

[@xwhitewolfiex1190]

Cyrus The Great You're here?

[@PancakeRights]

Agreed 💯 percent.

[@Jess-dm8hl]

Marinette isn’t problematic. The writers are problematic. They obviously don’t have many women writing for the show because no normal teenage girl with a crush acts as extreme as Marinette. Thomas honestly thinks that her behavior is “funny” and I don’t see it. Is it a cultural thing? A male thing? Idk and idc. I like to compare Miraculous to Sailor Moon all the time because it’s the only other show I know with a similar romance dynamic. Sailor moon is way better at showing normal teenage crushes. Sure the girls can be a little creepy at times, but they get called out on it! Marinette has nobody to call her out because her friends just encourage her. The writers could use her stalker behavior to show kids what not to do but they don’t because “jokes”. I don’t hate Marinette, I hate the writers. This show had so much potential back in season one days and they ruined it. I’ve seen more well written fan fiction. Maybe I’ve just grown up, but I’m an animator so I believe that animation is for everyone. Just because your show is meant for kids doesn’t mean you should be lazy with writing. I’m hopeful that season 4, 5, and the movie will be better written, but I’m honestly just holding out for the reveal.

[@yvesfromloona1647]

The writers of the show are quite misogynistic in the way they write the females with crushes on Adrien, it’s so inaccurate. I recommend watching Harryiana Hook’s video on the show.

[@LL-pl2ek]

Marinette has Adrien's entire schedule, and that is a bit creepy. If she only had his school schedule and approximate times for some of his other events I would be fine with it.

[@joblesstuesday3295]

and he revealed he hates chloe with a passion and he said "people like her don't change" like sis how you gonna hate on a 14-16 yr old girl who you created like i-

[@candace219]

@-BerryBun- exactly like I mean why give us that side of Chloe if you're never going to actually use it?

[@Jess-dm8hl]

-BerryBun- I’m convinced that Thomas has some sort of vendetta against some popular girl that rejected him in high school which is who he based Chloe off of. Yes some people never change, but is that really the best lesson to teach to children?

[@lilithamantshule1509]

The only thing that annoys me about Marinette is that she stalks Adrien

[@tsabitahgalaxy5863]

EXACTLY-

[@mediterraneanmapping9657]

and treats him like HER property

[@juanarroyo6174]

she's a simp

[@Je1ly]

hopefully in season 4 they try to tone it down with the creepy stalker thing as shown i the new york special

[@BlackcrescentAngel17]

@@Je1ly though I hope it isn't as cringe as the NY special.

[@izzysabitdizzy6347]

“In the day time I’m Marinette. Just a normal girl with a normal life.” - is friends with a French model - uncle is world’s greatest chef - bff runs most popular blog - is acknowledged by the most famous fashion designer - babysits for a famous reporter - is friends with a superhero (as Marinette) - parents own the best bakery in Paris - is literally friends with or knows multiple celebrities - parents love and support her 100% unconditionally (is that normal???) - lives across the street from school -enemies with the Mayor's Daughter Me: no you aren’t stop lying

[@alyssapinon9670]

Glad I’m not the only one who noticed! If you’re gonna make an exceptional character then acknowledge how exceptional they are!

[@Yalovayahznepomnimena]

lives across the street from school....Me?

[@bubble4472]

She's abnormal

[@lydias376]

Don't forget she also personally knows Jagged Stone, and designed glasses and a album cover for him.

[@lydias376]

Though in the world Miraculous I don't think being enemy's with the Mayors daughter is that bug a thing. I'm pretty sure everyone is enemy's with Chloe. 🤣

[@lollipopsky8941]

This is a bit off topic, but I hate how nobody really acknowledges how bad of a character Luka is. Like, he's a really good person, but he's so one-dimensional and his whole character completely relies on Marinette. He's been here for two seasons but he's still the same like he was on the beginning. There's just so many people who are worshipping him in this fandom and saying how he's a complete angel, but not many of them talks how zero of development he had.

[@danixlo9803]

I really like luka but they made him so plain that I just don’t see the point with him that why I don’t want him with marinette only with kagami because it will change him

[@gav2279]

OMG I AGREE WITH YOU. THE ONLY SCENE THAT HAS LUKA IN IT AND DOESN'T REVOLVE AROUND MARINETTE IS IN REFLEKDOLL. I HOPE TO SEE SOME FLAWS THAT HE TRIED TO HIDE BUT THAT COUSES HIM TO BE AKUMITIZZED/AMOKATIZED.

[@vrushalideshmukh8922]

yeahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!! I mean they reallllly should have written luka with SOME flaws so he could need some development

[@pixisticks]

He doesnt even have a personality bruhhh

[@lilymadkins3558]

Finally, someone who acknowledges the truth. I still don't understand why people like because there is nothing to like about him. He is really bland & boring and their absolutely nothing that's unique about him at all. What angers me more is that some people prefer him over Adrien,THE MAIN PROTAGONIST of the show because they think he is better when in reality he is nothing compared to Adrien. If you ask my opinion Luka is the actual problematic guy here because from the beginning he knows that Marinette is in love with Adrien and that she absolutely have 0 interest in him but still he simps for her ridiculously in almost every episode he appeared so far.

[@interlegere5603]

I don’t think people have a problem with Marinette’s bad traits, the problem is the narrative over blows her positive traits while downplaying her negative ones which causes a backlash resulting in people overemphasizing her bad traits to compensate.

[@craigpeoples9883]

EXACTLY

[@alyssapinon9670]

You dropped this 👑 you would think a show based on Taoism would have writers and fans who were more balanced. Instead it keeps swinging from one extreme to another

[@humanbeing493]

For me,she’s not problematic.Yes the whole Adrien stalker thing is crossing a line,but all the other reasons people say she’s problematic just start to fall apart when you really look at it.And if the NY special is any reflection of season 4,it looks like there gonna try and tone down her stalker tendencies.

[@plot8503]

Exactly

[@Lk6Channel]

I COMPLETELY agree!

[@guardianofpeace6393]

I think it has something to do with the Yin and Yang theme though for these 2 reasons: 1: Behaiviour Stealing phones on purpose? Hitting Cat Noir with a stick? ...Yeah! It’s all comedy and not actual crimes! But dating Marinette is an outrageous faux-pas! (I know that him finding out the her identity was Mari’s mistake, but Cat had the choice to keep things a secret) 2: Meaning of Superiority Also, leader means more superior to someone and this is the case for Ladybug. But they’re equal? Then why does Ladybug has 3 powers and Cat Noir only has one? It doesn’t make sense. The writers are showing it like Ladybug is more confident and smarter than Cat, when Adrien is a Straight A student!

[@guardianofpeace6393]

Also I think Mari has OLD (Which is BAD NEWS)... so, yeah

[@plot8503]

@@guardianofpeace6393 Marinette is the Yang in the couple, this is why she is superior, but still the Yin and Yang concept at its roots is about balance and equality

[@besi6578]

i feel like in the special marinette showed that she’s willingly prepared to try to get over adrien and try. but marinette isn’t a horrible person, some of the akumataziations are pointless and childish. but i just feel like marinette has a obsessive tendicy to adrien for some reasons.

[@BlackcrescentAngel17]

It seems people can get akumatized over simple and stupid things. How many times has that one guy been akumatized because someone won't let him feed pigeons or let them hang around and poop on everything? 57?

[@besi6578]

BlackcrescentAngel17 yess lol but people act like marinette and chloe are on the same level, chloe bullies them into being akumatizing, marinette doesn’t bully, she just does things unintentionally like not want an ice cream cone?😭

[@mairelli]

@@besi6578 sometimes it's actually her fault but her goal isn't to get them akumatized and when she does she treats them better afterwards Chloe just makes fun of them till they get re akumatized like stone heart and stormy weather

[@zebrattoratto]

Yea it really is in the special u can see that she tried to dial down her craziness a bit i hope in s4 it continues to be that way.

[@zebrattoratto]

@@mairelli yea i thought that too

[@OpalBecsDreamer]

Both Marinette and Adrien act inappropriately around their crushes, so I guess it's just the writer's not understanding that teenagers aren't always so extreme. Also, Marinette's behaviour probably seems more problematic than Chat Noir's because Ladybug has a chance to reject and call out Chat Noir's behaviour whereas no one is doing that to Marinette.

[@thegoodguy4443]

Well if you mean the writer than I guess you are pointing to Thomas that how poor he is in his acknowledgement

[@Ren-hd8jd]

That isn't exactly true because Marinette already knows Adrien likes someone else :/

[@user-km4lo8zz6z]

@@Ren-hd8jd know she doesn't its the other way around

[@Ren-hd8jd]

@@user-km4lo8zz6z Yes she does. If you want to check it out for yourself it’s in the episode with the wax statues.

[@user-km4lo8zz6z]

@@Ren-hd8jd oh ok

[@Aurama35]

I am actually really proud of her development in the NY Special. Like the writers toned down her stalkerish behavior

[@hanhbonnie1059]

Yeah, but we just can't ignore the fact that she is still pretty much observed with him like, all the time. I mean, in NY special Mari already has Luka as her boyfriend yet she still fawns over Adrien's public image. It feels like she is cheating on Luka right under his nose. If you ask me, the poor boy deserves better

[@Aurama35]

@@hanhbonnie1059 yeah I agree. He really did deserve better. I feel like the writers still really need to work on character development

[@babyfaceweeb8937]

Wasn't that because she was trying to get over him? 😐

[@MADDX.]

the Shanghai special ruined it :(

[@andrewshearsby8125]

@@MADDX. agreed this show is in ruin and will not becremembered fondly

[@ladyblubel]

It’s not that Marionette is problematic but when it comes to Adrien/Chat... both of which she spends most of her screentime with/around, her worst traits usually show. With Adrien, her obsessiveness; with Chat, her hypocritical and bossy nature (which isn’t too much of an issue most of the time)

[@besi6578]

yeah!!!

[@90lancaster]

Ever noticed how Marinette acts so outright mean & Condescending to Cat Noir in all their canon interactions - her parents practically have to bully her into being civil to him too at the end of Weredad. I honestly think sometimes Tom and Sabine like Cat Noir more than Marinette does.

[@dvreaux]

@@90lancaster well if you had somebody always pushing onto you and flirting with you all the time even when you say no dozens of times you will develop an angry attitude towards them,it is still clear that ladybug cares about him its just that he doesn't listen and annoys her alot :/

[@dvreaux]

@@ramu-silly a little touchy?a Little? He has overstepped her boundaries MANY times each time he tried to kiss her.Yes an overobsessive stalker is worse but atleast she makes up for it with her kidness.And Yes Cat noir's loyalty does make up for his clinging but maybe if adrien knew he wouldn't like her as much.But it's ladybugs feelings and people handle things differently.So my point still stands

[@starsshinesforever1425]

@@ramu-silly fr 😏

[@zaza-yp2kl]

Ok this is gonna be really long.... Marinette's obsession with Adrien is not normal at all and she should receive harsher consequences for her stalker tendencies. I agree with your point on her attitude towards Chat Noir, but I don't think she should have berated him DURING A FIGHT WITH A VILLAIN. I mean, surely, she could have waited until Techno Pirate was defeated. The reason why I dislike Marinette is because she is constantly portrayed to be better than Chat Noir. They're supposed to be equals, but there are countless times where this is not the case. For example, in Kwamibuster, where she utilises multiple miraculouses at a time (displaying her power and strength and whatever). Or in Reflekdoll, where she easily handles being Lady Noir but Adrien isn't effective as Mister Bug. And there are SO MANY EPISODES where Chat Noir is controlled by the villain (Princess Fragrance, Dark Cupid, The Puppeteer, Malediktator, off the top of my head). I really just want to see Adrien/Chat Noir getting more screen time and more recognition (literally everyone in the show is like "omg ladybuuuuug" but never praise Chat Noir). Not really related, but this is why Gorizilla is one of my favourite episodes, because it opens with Adrien and closes with Adrien. I just really really really want to see more episodes where Chat Noir truly showcases his abilities and isn't just treated as a sidekick or used as comic relief. Sorry for going on a tangent lol, but what I'm trying to say is that I don't think Marinette is problematic. She has good intentions and strives towards justice, but she is way too overpowered.

[@mia-fz1mz]

That’s exactly what I’ve been saying

[@Luuni100]

Thats exactly what im saying! Like they literally praise marinette for being “best ladybug in history” or whatever when there’s literally nothing special about her. So what if shes used all the miraculouses at once? Those jewels date back centuries so surely she couldnt be the only one to yield that much power

[@omirahpatterson]

But then again he took down an entire SWAT FORCE dance fighting where as she couldn't handle that many people at a time by herself I agree that they should equalize the though like we've been with Adrien for three seasons and we still don't even know his favorite color

[@sorayah6811]

I completely agree!!

[@kabsageigj8941]

Surely she could have waited until Technolizer was defeated. Yes and surely Cat Noir could've contacted her to begin with so she wouldn't have to be surprised, confused, and angered as to why he showed up in NYC with no warning. Surely Cat Noir, having a good reason to be there, could have quickly given one to Ladybug. Not a long drawn out explanation but something simple to defuse things until he could fully explain. She was actually willing for him to do that. She doesn't even respond with anger immediately but then he says he'll explain later, so she's supposed to be fine being left completely in the dark meanwhile he decides to give Sparrow and Uncanny a lengthier (fake) explanation than he'd provide to his own partner? Ladybug ideally wouldn't have taken out her anger on him during the fight but realize that's expecting a lot out of her. Certainly a higher standard than you're applying to Cat Noir.

[@julieaustestad7118]

i think she's an okay person. she's smart for her age, it's just that she's super creepy towards adrien. the way she stalks him is unormal for sure

[@90lancaster]

I worry about her as a future wife sometimes - I think she'd likely be fine, but I can see her for example pushing him to take over Gabriel's business so she can use it as her plaything, or to keep modelling even if he wants to stop.

[@thunderlightningbolt6597]

@90 Lancaster Agreed. The show has REALLY bad implications about what will happen when they get together. I can see it now, Marionette being so obsessed to the point that she stalks him everyday, smells his clothes, wanting him to be the "perfect" guy, and not letting him make ANY changes in his life. Definitely NOT a good marriage.

[@90lancaster]

@@thunderlightningbolt6597 I have had similar thoughts for a pre-reveal relationship, but i've also thought - what if she just treats Adrien like a possession & also essentially bullies him like she does Cat Noir - you could have the worst of both worlds - not the best - people assume a reveal would fix everything - but on the actual show ladybug is pretty horrible to Cat Noir and doesn't do much with Adrien other than Objectify him. So add a sense of ownership to thinking she's always in charge - the poor guy is going to get squashed, no chance to ever explore his masculinity at all - he will just be her pet.

[@90lancaster]

@@thunderlightningbolt6597 I do sometimes say (and I am only half joking) that Adrien is just changing the control of his childhood from Gabriel to Marinette. That is why I think it might be nice if we were allowed to here at least something that Adrien dreams of for himself and not that other impose upon him.

[@Ren-hd8jd]

You know she isn't smart for her age when she goes to China to see Adrien even though she's already dating Luka.

[@unheard_echoes2023]

LadyNoir's problimaticness isn't all Chat's fault. Ladybug constantly flirts with him, giving him enough hope to keep being flirty himself, and then everyone blames him as if he can't take no for an answer. Basically, Ladybug is telling him no, but she's acting as if she's saying "maybe someday". If Ladybug wants him to see her as a friend, then she should treat him like one. Not skipping back and forth between "I hate you" and "winks, cuteness, and flintiness"

[@mrtotle1285]

Between “i hate you”? Yall are just overthinking that ladybug hates him sometimes tbh and she doesnt! She’s just expressing how she feels when its not the time when to flirt or joke around or not. (Its not that i hate Chat but im just seeing the point there to prove those fking toxic ladybug haters that are too overprotective of chat)

[@mrtotle1285]

@@genzrlysucks2500 More like YOU barking at me right now, just seeing your comment makes me loose my love Chat Noir even more thx to you :)

[@mrtotle1285]

@@genzrlysucks2500 ur loss too for spreading negativity throughout the show putting fans down that doesnt do anything wrong to you.

[@mrtotle1285]

@@genzrlysucks2500 omg please who said that i hate Kagami 🤚😭 do toxic chat noir fans always think that when someone who loves Ladybug hates kagami? 😭 🔫 I also dont understand the Kagami hate but the thing that bugs me the most are those Chat Noir fans who are sexualizing him over tiktok and insta nowadays, like please he is still young and some of these mindless people are fetisizing him and some of their completly hate ladybug for a flaw he did to him.

[@paulkofler519]

She’s just joking with him yes it can be flirting but it also can be normal joking around with a partner or friend and if Cat Noir sees it as flirting even after she said no for multiple times then it’s his problem

[@JellytotElly]

I think the people who complain that Ladybug is rude or unappreciative of Chat Noir are like that due to their own fangirl nature of Chat- it's hard to see someone you adore get rejected and such, so they take it out on LB- I personally *love* Chat, but I don't hate LB for getting frustrated with him at times.

[@Luvelyte]

I wonder the same thing. I see that in other fandoms.

[@Baby-cc4di]

I just don't want her to hit him, that's all 😊

[@totaldramavv]

In the end Ladybug loves cat noir, there's no point in hating her for it

[@JellytotElly]

Exactly

[@90lancaster]

I totally get why LB would tell him to shut up in the middle of a fight - but you know what he doesn't letch on her during fights - he complements her before and after engagements - as he's got enough sense to not distract her - unlike she does in The New York special. It doesn't excuse her mocking him as Marinette. or calling him a Team Mate not a partner or dismissing his opinions or implying he's simple minded. or hitting him (repeatedly), or giving him mixed signals (like hugging him one minute and screaming at him the next).. Ladybug is also problematic in her own ways - not just Marinette.

[@cartooncottage2024]

There are times when she berates him when he isn't being a creep. Also, she's a creep, too. So, acting like he's the only problematic one for his behavior towards her is hypocritical.

[@90lancaster]

She's a Massive Hypocrite - she accuses others of lying while lying all the time for her own gain, she abuses her powers way more than Adrien does too. I do think Alya and Nino and others take advantage of her difficulty in saying no to people though. Like does Nino actually pay her to Babysit Chris ? Or Does Alya care if Marinette has something better to do when she invites her over to watch the twins. (heck did Nino Pay Lila either for watch Chris ?) Did Alix and Kim pay Marinette for that banner or do they all just expect her to do stuff for them for free as she's somewhat of a people pleaser as Adrien is too.

[@acsuperstar6474]

No ones acting like he's the problematic one, we are saying they both have issues

[@cartooncottage2024]

@@90lancaster Good question! I wonder that, too.

[@FatimaMohammed-ns6bd]

@@90lancaster i guess thats marinette being marinette, to her friends point of view she is the type of person you rely on and since she is nice and friendly to them they think she can do anything for them.

[@90lancaster]

@@FatimaMohammed-ns6bd I do wonder though, do they pay her to babysit when they know she gets paid to look after manon ( I damn well hope she gets paid to look after manon and to work in the bakery) - just as I darn well hope Gabriel is paying Adrien too. As he's already likely breaking child labour laws and is due a 300,000 euro fine for that - but yeah Child abuse and neglect is something else this show seems to condone for some inexplicable reason. It just sometimes comes across like Alya and Nino's idea of "friendship" is to dump the twins or Chris on marinette so they can go get a pizza.. and they don't expect her to get paid, and I bet Alix and Kim didn't pay her for that banner either.

[@missfruity7956]

I don’t blame Marinette I blame Thomas...Marinette is one of my most favorite characters but I don’t really like the writers it’s like they literally despise all their characters, look at Thomas he doesn’t like chat noir/Adrien and it shows that the only character he actually likes is his greatest creation Ladybug not Marinette or Adrien not alya or any of them..Ladybug just ladybug but I also think that in season 4 things will get better

[@MickysGarden]

I dont think shes problomatic. she had an obsession with Adrien,stole his phone,got jealous but she realized in the special so im rlly proud of her.I thinl shes kinda overhated by some ppl

[@iamachristiangirl2028]

Bruh let’s be honest here I saw people with a crush do even worse.

[@lolha4816]

@@iamachristiangirl2028 It doesn't matter lol she shouldn't be like this in the first place

[@mickaelaangelineballestero8630]

this is a show for kids though, kids will think that being obsessed over a crush is alright which it isn't.

[@MickysGarden]

@@mickaelaangelineballestero8630 tbh ppl with crushes do even worse things then that,besides mosly teenagers start watching it now

[@lolha4816]

@@MickysGarden Exactly, little kids should be influenced that being a stalker is not correct and teenagers are still kids, adults watch it too btw

[@strawberrycake1773]

Its not even about how shes rejecting him...Ladybug is very bossy and violent towards Chat Noir in general. A very good example is Reflektdoll overall ''Ladynoir'' ruined the episode for me, she doesn't have to insult him and hit him. Ik it's supposed to be a joke ( which isn't even funny ) but what would happen if Chat Noir were to ''playfully'' hit Ladybug on the head with his staff or insult her when she makes a mistake or asks for help? Chat Noir also need to learn to take no for an answer, she's rejected him twice now and he's still not over her but I can see the development in the NY special when he gave her a yellow rose as a symbol of friendship.

[@strawberrycake1773]

Overall I don't see Chat Noir as problematic as Marinette if not at all Yes he has been in episodes like Glaciator, Copycat and Frozer but that doesn't amount to all the things Marinette has done she stolen multiple things and even broke into Adrien house more than once but barely anyone speaks about it but Kagami is a criminal for ''stealing'' Adrien ?

[@kabsageigj8941]

She is not "violent towards him" I can understand people not liking her hitting him on the head but this is not violence in any way, shape, or form. She wasn't hurting him she was, as clarified by her words, telling him to use his head. You do know rough housing is a thing right? Like not everytime someone hits another person is there intent to actually do harm in the slightest. He wasn't asking for help, he was being cocky. It's after she's turned up the teasing that he says "hey why don't you try helping me, instead of making fun of me!" To which she responds "looks like Bugaboy's lost his sense of humor" then he says "sounds like you're the one wearing the clown costume today" This was her saying, "fine you think it's so easy go ahead, while I just goof off and leave the planning to you." and then him acknowledging exactly what she was doing, turning the tables on him. People get really upset at her for not helping Mister Bug *exactly* when he asked for it, but seem to miss that she had been trying to do just that and he had dismissed it. She pretty quickly agrees to help him again after she made her point. I'm not even saying she handled things great here but I acknowledge that this was a reaction to Cat Noir instead of giving him a totally free pass like so many.

[@strawberrycake1773]

@@kabsageigj8941 Marinette suffers from a whole heap of flaws…and I don’t mean character flaws… something she would really benifit from, no, at the moment she is a Mary Sue, whenever she does something wrong or immoral it is always played up as if she’s doing the right thing, she’s never wrong about anything and if she ever is, everything somehow manages to work out in the end.

[@kabsageigj8941]

@@strawberrycake1773 Ugh anybody hating on Kagami for "stealing" Adrien is being completely unreasonable but as for your other complaints. Cat Noir was angry for pretty petty reasons both times. Yes, he let go of it quickly and I don't hold it against him but it shows he's not above these moments. I mean as was pointed out in this video people are mad at Ladybug for her frustration at Cat Noir in the special when she was 1000× more justified in her anger at him than he was at her in Glaciator or Frozer. Technically Marinette stole Adrien's phone on Alya's recommendation. Okay no, she didn't say to steal it but sneak in, unlock it, and delete the message. Her struggle in completing that was why she stole the phone. Adrien did steal his Father's book. Yes, certainly not proud moments of her's. At least she was found out in Party Crasher and my goodness they were letting so many people in. Adrien wouldn't have even wanted to keep her out. And I'm totally in favor of Adrien having some "guy time" however, in fairness, this was Nino's desire not his. It was creepy how long she lingered in Cat Blanc, no questions there and I won't defend it. She received a pretty tremendous consequence for it though.

[@strawberrycake1773]

@@kabsageigj8941 Alya told Marinette to delete the message which in itself isn’t right But she took his phone home and put it in his bag like NOTHING and faced no consequences And yes it was very wrong for Adrien to steal his fathers book but he got consequences Remember when Lila went to Adriens house and how Marinette literally tried to break into the their home I’ve also noticed that Lila is there to make Marinette look good the more obsessive Marinette becomes and the more she lies The more Lila’s lies become more unbelievable and the more her actions get worse Marinette has literally teamed up with Chloé to take down Kagami when all she did was be there with Adrien while I’m not necessarily a Adrigami shipper that was just petty and wrong . And then at the end Chloé got consequences and Marinette still got to sit next to Adrien So she practically got rewarded for what she did .

[@eileen9893]

It’s all the writers fault I mean they do a amazing job but they just ruined Marinette

[@heathernick7]

i wouldnt say ruined...no ones perfectt

[@eileen9893]

heather nick true but they should make her a role model that is what the show is about being a role model

[@heathernick7]

@@eileen9893 she has wayyyyy more good traits than bad so shes ok in my opinion🤷‍♀️

[@heathernick7]

@Eberechi Rebecca exactly. I don't even think it's a crush anymore...

[@Hiii5436]

heather nick it’s an obsession with the poor dude and it’s sad

[@artie_0382]

Y'all out here in the comments bashing Marinette and Adrien well that's how character development works. Characters are supposed to have problems so they can overcome them in the future as I said CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT. For example Marinette, its no secret that she's obsessed with Adrien but we saw in the NY special how she was trying to get over her feelings for him as she realised it was unhealthy. Adrien has also grown, instead of flirting with LB and not taking no for an answer he decided that she wouldn't accept him, and that's alright. So instead he focused on strengthening their friendship. Side note- Call me crazy but I actually like Marinette's stalkerish tendencies, it reminds me of Yandere

[@plot8503]

You can like her stalkerish behaviours but of course Marinette isn't supposed to be a Yandere so I'm glad she is getting the character development she deserves! 😁✨

[@JediFrog]

Characters that will go through character development start out really problematic and with things that are really unlikable *cough* Zuko *cough*

[@Luuni100]

JediFrog at least zuko’s flaws were acknowledged by side characters as well as writers. It would be rlly hard giving marinette the development she deserves because she rarely has any consequences for her actions, the side characters brush off her weird ass behaviour, and she gets praised for doing jack shit

[@besi6578]

yes in the ny special they showed character development

[@elijahrinkel3846]

Although I agree with you in the idea that this trait can be used as a means for character development, you also need to ask how much of that trait being shown was actually necessary. We didn’t need to see her making his next fifty birthday presents or bathe herself in his cologne. That’s just too much. I’ve got a comment floating around in here somewhere, so if you want to read it, you can go ahead, but I expressed that the point that Marinette has a crush on him is evident enough, and we don’t need to constantly be focusing on it if the scenarios that utilize Marinette’s crush are nothing more than surface level. If it’s not important to the flow of the episode, then why go into so much detail? Why focus so much on such a small, and overall insignificant thing that really does nothing to progress the plot? For example, when Ladybug delivered the present to Adrien’s room in Chat Blanc, did they really need to add the scene where she sniffed his pillow? Probably not.

[@Rainjojo]

The amount of people in the comments saying a stalker isn’t problematic. 😐✌🏽

[@cosplayerqueen9878]

Its the weirdest thing, but I couldn't tell why I don't like Marinette. I just don't like her. She kinda sucks. In season one she was great, but after that I was just like omg, I hate her. She thinks she is better than all the other girls who are interested in Adrien bc they are 'fangirls' but she is the exact same way. I hate how they made Chat seem literally useless, like take him away and Ladybug could do everything by herself. The only thing he is there for is a human shield, which is literally a fucking insult like wtf. Also, she supposedly cares about Chat Noir 'so much' but literally calls him simple minded, treats him like he is stupid, and says that he is her partner but treats him like a sidekick. Like if LB and Chat Noir are equals, why couldn't he know about Master Fu and the box as well? Why was he kept in the dark if LB and him are supposed to be equals. Also, she just doesn't seem to care about him very much. Like sure, she would be sad if he died or disappeared, but she treats him like an inconvenience most of the time, and that is a pretty shitty thing to do ESPECIALLY bc she knows how he feels. Yes, she turned him down, but constantly berating him and yelling at him when he makes a mistake and saying that her job is way more important than his isn't really being considerate with his feelings, which again, she cares 'so much' about. Not to mention Marinette literally mocking Chat Noir and saying he is nothing compared to Adrien even though they are the same person doesn't feel like she really loves him Adrien almost pieces together that LB is Marinette several times, but only gets thrown off bc she intentionally throws him off. It's shown that if he found out LB's identity first, he would be happy that she is Marinette, because he truly does not care who is behind the mask, he loves her for her. How many times has LB/Mari almost figure it out? Zero. Meaning that Chat is better at keeping his identity a secret than Marinette is, which is like the main thing a superhero should be good at. Also consider the fact that in real life, Adrien is way more athletic than Marinette is. He should be better at that kind of thing, but he isn't. Sorry this has been so fucking long, but this is my last rant, Adrien and Marinette are supposed to be soulmates or whatever, but they bring out the absolute worst in each other. Marinette becomes obsessive and goes out of her way to embarrass or berate any girl that comes near Adrien, even if they did nothing to her, even though they are like, barely friends. Adrien flirts constantly and can't take no for an answer, which I understood in the beginning bc he was sheltered his whole life and didn't know better, but he has been in school around people for like a year now, he should know better. The NY special didn't make it any better. Those feelings are still there, they are just repressing them, and in the end when they acknowledge it, we are back to where we started. These people are in like, middle school, they are displaying symptoms of an obsessive crush or puppy love (More so in Marinette's case, but still) and you want me to believe that they are each others soulmates? Bull. Tell me why I like Chloe's small redemption arc more than Marinette's character in the whole show.

[@animefan133]

I completely agree with everything, I like chloe more than both of them lmao This show needs better writing.

[@cosplayerqueen9878]

@@animefan133 Phew thank god lol. I thought I was the only one 😂😂

[@animefan133]

@@cosplayerqueen9878 Your whole review over the characters is so funny, great read as I agreed with it 100% 😂 You roasted marinette so hard (deserved) 😂 I hope she'll change But nope your not alone, we're a small number but there are more of us!

[@thegoodguy4443]

@@animefan133 you still think marinette is to blame not Thomas ? She after all is not real 😆 😂

[@animefan133]

@@thegoodguy4443 I wrote before that the show needs better writing

[@babyfaceweeb8937]

Don't people blame her for Max's akumatization because she only tried out because Adrien was in it too and not because she actually cared about the competition like Max?

[@liaheben]

a lot of people got angry with the episode, bc the problems that female gamers usually suffer. But the primary problem comes with the writers. Marinette isn't introduce like a girl interested in games before Gamer, and not even in Gamer, she's just a Mary Shue that wanted to play videogames with Adrien. The same way that she woudl be try any other thing.

[@vflowersimp]

in some ways, Marinette is a bit of a yandere… but this isn’t anime, so i’m just gonna crawl back into my box.

[@fightingmedialounge519]

Some, but in most ways she's not

[@fightingmedialounge519]

@@ramu-silly let's see. She never harms anyone out jealousy or an over protective desire( even if I'm being generous say yanderes dont have to kill they at least should be willing to inflict some serious harm). We really don't know how far she would go far she would go for Adrien since he has never asked her to do things that goes againts her nature She never claims him to be hers to his face and others, and I don't mean her saying she wants to be with him, I mean talking about him like he's her property. So that's why I said she didn't fit most of the criteria.

[@fightingmedialounge519]

@@ramu-silly aside from the fact that the traits listed are what define a yandere(that being someone who is either driven by their obssesion over a person to commit acts of of lethal violence or long lasting harm, or if you're generous someone who is so obsessed with person to the point where they are willing to real in their homicidal tendencies) you really didn't debunk my points. Once again you bring instances where what she did wasn't right, but either didn't cause any long lasting harm or wasn't suppose to. You almost had me in the first half, and you would have been right of you brought up they at least pretend to acquiesce to the desires of the person they love and brought an example of marinette doing that; instead you bring up her not wanting him to know about her being creepy which is arguably more for her own benefit. What you listed was her wanting not claiming him, I even made that distinction clear in my comment, when claiming I mean says something to the effect of him belonging to her. Just to be clear. It's not just about her not being murderous and openly possessive. I don't cosidering esdeath from akame ga kill nor shizuri mugino from a certain magical index yanderes despite possessing some those qualities. Basically yander has to be this:mobile.twitter.com/matchbox_sized/status/994739707027181568?lang=en

[@fightingmedialounge519]

@@ramu-silly you're attention span isn't my problem, so there's no need to apologize to me.

[@fightingmedialounge519]

@@ramu-silly then why are you still replying.

[@강지원-d1u]

I'm just so confused by how someone so clumsy and creepy could suddenly become so brave and serious with just a face mask and a bodysuit

[@candace219]

Ikr

[@thunderlightningbolt6597]

Ikr. It makes no sense at all.

[@redbloodbluemoon1423]

And how someone like Adrien stops being good at fighting just because he has a suit.

[@dyland1842]

I think the biggest problem with her is that she gets too much screen time

[@besi6578]

yes, even thought adrien has a more interesting back story!!

[@dajazman6858]

Lol she's the main character? It makes sense that she gets the most screen time. But I understand that the screen time she does get isn't very engaging. Personally, I think if Marinette had more complex conflicts in the show in her civilian life (besides just some girl wanting Adrien or Lila destroying Marinette's life), the show would be a lot more interesting (and maybe people wouldn't hate Marinette as much lol)

[@besi6578]

Da Jazman yessss!!

[@90lancaster]

@@dajazman6858 I'd rather some of that screen time was spent on developing other relationships with the class, and a bit less on her being a stalker.

[@dajazman6858]

@@90lancaster I definitely get that, a lot of the characters are pretty one dimesional, you'd think by season 3 we'd get some characters that do have interesting motivations and conflicts. The thing is, I genuinely think Marinette has a good character outside of being a stalker. If she had gotten rid of her creepy tendencies by season 1 or 2, it would've been great bc we'd have some sort of development for Marinette in that area. But her stalkerish tendencies get enabled by everyone around her. Alya and a lot of the girls in Marinette's class encourage her and I remember in one episode, a firefighter helps Marinette break into Adrien's house. Why would he do that???? The Agreste house is known to be the home of two famous people, what public servant would help w/ breaking into their house? The whole show just laughs away Marinette's stalker behaivior and it's really concerning. But honestly, that's the fault of the writers, and I'm not going to hate all of her character when she does have good qualities. it just sucks that her worst character trait is exacerbated for laughs when it's far from humorous.

[@ch1oemc]

I actually really like Marinette because you can tell she has good intentions, but I don’t like how possessive of Adrien she is, and how stalker-like she is. I don’t really like her alter ego, Ladybug, though. Ladybug gives me the feeling that she always has to be in charge. She never really lets Chat Noir have the spotlight and gets mad at him if he messes up slightly. But when Ladybug messes up, all Chat Noir does is support her. But yes, he is a little pushy. In the movie you can tell that Marinette is now starting to realize of possessive she is, and you can tell she’s trying to better herself. Chat Noir also has seemed to accept that fact that Ladybug loves someone else, and he is decreasing his pushy ways, too. So in conclusion, sure, some of the characters have some bad traits, but they are starting to develop into better people, and that’s he great thing here.

[@GenGen013]

For the New York special, I do agree that ladybug is allowed to get angry at chat, because yes he should have told her. But it’s not smart or okay to discuss this while fighting a villain. And besides, when ladybug messed up in miracle queen, everything got fixed, but when chat makes a mistake once, immediately the whole city is in ruins and there is no way to fix it. It’s kinda unfair

[@candace219]

Yes and no. Equalizing ladybug's mistake in Miracle Queen and Chat Noirs mistake in the NY special is basically saying ladybug *thought* of detramsforming but didn't because it was too inconvenient. While I agree that having the *entire city* messed up bc of Chat Noir and almost no consequences whatsoever bc of Ladybug is unfair, their mistakes are in COMPLETELY DIFFERENT CATEGORIES. Chat Noir took a chance and Ladybug forgot. Two *very* different things. Also, I agree that she's shouldn't have argued in the fight, keep in mind that Chat Noir offered *complete strangers* a longer(and fake) explanation vs his own partner. And anyway, no one is perfect and neither is Ladybug. She's known to make impulsive deductions, so you can't expect her to cahnge just bc Chat Noir did it.

[@sapphire_trainer9108]

No. Not everything got fixed in Miracle Queen. Even the magical ladybugs had fixed the damages, it left an emotional burden in Marinette. She lost Master Fu because of HER BEHAVIOR and became a premature guardian, which is a consequence since it was a huge responsibility. It hurt me seeing her confusion and devastation when she tried to find out what her Lucky Charm meant, and she failed to do so. The risk was huge, in my view, Marinette and Adrien's the consequences are equal. My girl doesn't deserve the hate, I still love her.

[@candace219]

@Sapphire_ Trainer I like your viewpoint 😁 but I think they mean consequences that affect everyone.

[@Dragonsphinx]

IMO Marinette gets really close to being a character I can’t stand, but keeps dancing away from crossing that line by inches. Those stalker instances not getting their due consequences rub me the wrong way, but then in other episodes she’s shown to learn from mistakes. For now, I lean toward her being flawed and foolish as a child not yet knowing better. It’ll help if the show later starts treating her stalking as more unacceptable-in that case I’ll probably be happy writing it off as character development. If the show keeps treating it as “cute” and “quirky,” especially as she’s a girl, I think it’ll start to chafe and I’ll start just plain hating her. I’m on the fence, time will tell which side I fall on for keeps.

[@megana5326]

He did NOT just say that Chat Noir is problematic. Chat has sacrificed himself for Ladybug COUNTLESS of times and when he makes 1 mistake Ladybug makes him feel so horrible that he GIVES UP HIS MIRACULOUS

[@craftyrainbovv]

Ikr 😭

[@fightingmedialounge519]

So sacrificing yourself for someone negates your creepy actions.

[@fantasybuff3186]

Both ladybug and cat noir have their flaws

[@GlitchKidd0]

@@fightingmedialounge519 many times might I add, and the creepy actions is with marinette not cat noir, and while it doesn’t negate then, she’s a real jerk in the station because cat has had your back and comforted you with all the mistakes you’ve made, but when cat messes up, you constantly bring up how you can’t trust him anymore(in the New York Special) during the battle, which makes him lose focus, and feels so bad that he gives up his miraculous, ladybug is just a jerk, while at times cat noir does make mistakes, he gets treated horribly, but when it’s ladybug, cat just comforts her, and she get re assurance. Ladybug is just a hypocrite and a jerk

[@GlitchKidd0]

@@fightingmedialounge519 same with ladybug, but she gets away with it, instead of creepy, she, at times, is rude, and insults cat noir

[@SparklingSakuraStar]

I think Marinette is problematic both narratively and character wise. Story wise, she is only relevant to be the hero of the day and chase down Adrien. Her bully has more character growth and adds more to the plot than she does and she is the main character of the show. Marinette is way be too passive as a main character and doesn't give the story a lot of agency. There's way too much of villains attack and heroes react going on. She needs to add her own spice to the story in order cement to her importance as the main character. Like, she was given one or became miraculous holder by mistake or was forced to become one but due to her own determination, she accepted it. Regardless how she felt about becoming a hero and protecting Pairs. Then Marinette as a character. Oooh boy, She gives Sakura Haruno and Hinata Hyuga a run for their money when it come obsession/infatuation for their love interest. Its very hard to take her seriously when she tries to be mature to due to the fact she lacks integrity and doesn't face any harsh punishments for the problems she causes. Heck, she even gets reward for them most of the time. So, in a nutshell, yes she is problematic.

[@90lancaster]

Yep Chloe (oddly) has fans who adore her, people seem to more tolerate Marinette.

[@SparklingSakuraStar]

@@90lancaster I can see why. It's because of her having two horrible parents. As well having actually doing something to advance the plot and having growth to her character. But that doesn't change the fact she is still horrible as a person. I hate Chloe as much I hate Lila, Luka, Marinette and Natalie.

[@bishpls4648]

If only Marinette could have a normal word with Adrien without getting all awkward it would be nice character development... Besides that, Marinette is not problematic, she is just a normal girl, with a normal life😌

[@Hiii5436]

Jess thebest500 yea but we don’t try to break into their houses multiple times and follow them around honestly she’s more of a fan than a friend and I’m the same age as marinette and the only thing we STALK is their Instagram. And I don’t blame marinette I blame the writers for creating a obsession stalker

[@Hiii5436]

Jess thebest500 people forget that Adrien is a super model and have 2 million girls after him

[@greenrangeralex]

Um not a normal girl

[@Hiii5436]

@@2011Malim So your saying that we should ignore that she’s being a creep and a stalker and think it’s funny because it’s a tv show? when it’s actually cringy and weird for a 14 year old and marinette is supposed to be a role model for kids and is the main character but no she’s breaking in to peoples houses, stalking them, knowing their Schedule, or collecting their hair ,dropping off Anonymous presents and etc. Her doing that sets her character.her actions make me believe that she’s a creep and we shouldn’t ignore what she’s doing it’s wrong and not okay whether I’m thinking to far into this or not at the end of the day it’s clearly wrong and if this was real life she would be arrested and she knows she can. She’s supposed to be portrayed as a NORMAL girl but fights crime but the things she is doing is not normal and nor funny.and I pay attention to the times where she’s making progress with adrien but it flushes down the toilet when she gets weird and can’t gets a single word out of her mouth and yes acting shy around your crush is normal but when she does that she reminds me of yandere simulator how you ask she can’t get a word out to him and she uses ladybug for her personal gain to get girls away from him just like yandere San but just doesn’t kill them. She’s not a bad character buts she’s doing bad things that’s not okay and I’m not gonna ignore that and think it’s funny just because it’s a tv show when it’s supposed to be teaching kids to do the right thing lmao but you can support her being a stalker

[@Hiii5436]

@@2011Malim it doesn’t matter anyway the development ain’t going anywhere any way it’s still the same nothing different between the 2 characters

[@Rainjojo]

People who say she isn’t problematic are flat out lying and glorifying an obsessive creep. How would you feel if someone knew everything about you, kept photos, things like your hair, made future presents for your birthday, broke into your house, should I go on?? Her friends encourage her behavior instead of calling it as wrong, she’s terribly written in later seasons and bashes chat noir. Kagami was the only one who had been civil and saw her as a friend not using her crush of adrien against her because marinette gained that trust. What does marinette do???? Break that trust by dating adrien after he found out she was ladybug. This fandom wouldn’t like it if the reverse were to happen and their hate for characters are one-dimensional that they can’t see how bad of a character marinette is

[@illuviaazul8749]

PERIOD. i will never understand how people dislike her because of her treatment of Chat Noir. Do people ever consider that she's tired of him not giving her boundaries and that no means no? Everything bad about Chat Noir flies under the radar because he's "sunshine boy" and that's just not fair at all.

[@shimra7996]

👏 so true. I'm glad that I'm not the only one thinks like that. Fandom rates Adrien/cat noir as PeRfEcT and just ignore all his shitty acts . And that just gets on my nerves.

[@paulkofler519]

Agree. Ofc there are moments where Ladybug unnecessary hits or "insults" him but Cat Noir isn’t a saint either. He constancy flirts/flirted with her, called her names and confessed his love even though she clearly said No to all those things. In the New York special Cat Noir broke Ladybugs trust by going to New York and leaving Paris defenceless. People ignore these things. Both do wrong things but in the end both are still good people

[@starsshinesforever1425]

Exactly she could be even meaner towards him we’re lucky she ain’t, I never even thought she was rude towards him and when I heard ppl say she is I don’t understand how, she literally keeps saying we’re a team. And ppl act like it’s how Chole treat Sabrina

[@hardcorefurinafan]

Do you realize that marinette/ladybug made more mistakes than Chat Noir? Half of the Paris akumatized because of her and nobody talks about it. Chat Noir is waaaay better and also when Ladybug makes mistakes chat noir always encourages her but when chat noir makes mistakes she always insults him.

[@NkemUtomi]

I think it was the episode they switched Kwami's.

[@besi6578]

and ladybug was being awful to chat noir in new york but she has the right to be mad. she could’ve just talked to him privately tho

[@totaldramavv]

I have mixed feelings on ladybug tbh

[@miss_chelles1338]

@@totaldramavv I do too. As a matter of fact nah, i just dont like her anymore.😂 In my opinion Marinette is a good character, but her potential to grow as a character was ruined. I used to like her, but now I can't like her. But i know they can still redeem her, there's literally two more whole Seasons left. I just want her to realize (and get the fact through her thick skul)l that Adrien does not belong to her, and that there more important things she should be dealing with, in her life. Like her fashion career. Jeez, this was longer than i thought lol.

[@lililthy]

Chat Noir should've contacted Ladybug and told her that he can't stay in Paris, because he will go somewhere too just like Ladybug, so Ladybug can think of something that they can do if a akumatization happened in Paris, but guess WHAT he didn't took a chance to tell her that he will go and have a vacation too.

[@genzrlysucks2500]

@@lililthy he said he tried but couldn’t reach her. Adrien’s father is so strict that he barely even gets to leave his house not to talk of going to Paris and then he got a one in a lifetime opportunity of course he took it. I can relate to him since I have a strict father, if I was in that situation I’d leave to. Ladybug should have stayed, she’s the one that can purify akumas, she’s the frigging guardian. Why did she go on vacation?

[@fresnelbiteu5052]

@@genzrlysucks2500 to be honest it was ladybugs fault because she wanted Adrien to come and Adrien and cat noir are the same person so it was marinette fault

[@burntwater9035]

Well, I feel the main issue with the Cat Noir thing is not that she rejects him... it's that she appears significantly less supportive and not only that, she hits him sometimes. When Cat Noir messes up, she usually gets angry and straight up hits him at times. Meanwhile when Ladybug messes up, the show either doesn't acknowledge her mistake or Cat Noir is very understanding towards her. He is never harsh for her mistakes. This doesn't just apply to the season 3 finale, it applies to more than that (Reflectdoll being an example as she is not supportive of him at all when he messes up with her powers and even hits him over the head). It's unbalanced and upsetting that while Cat Noir is always there for her, we never or rarely see vice versa.

[@rawdasalmataman7908]

Well. She is not just creepy she is also a hypocrite. Catnoir didn't have a perfect childhood like her . She is a creepy and a hypocrite. Catnoir is not. Catnoir doesn't harass ladytrash as much as people says he does. In the newyork special he actually made a plan so he can go to newyork and protect paris when it needs him. Loserbug however was stupid like always. Catnoir actually saved Loserbug many times but she never did even though she is the role model she is always saved by him instead of showing her appreciation she abuse him physically and emotionally which is UNACCEPTABLE. Everything about maridump is bad because I just don't see what is good in her ad a character? Chloe has reasons for her actions she had a hard childhood and she is just acting like her mother. Mari however has a happy family friends Everything. Adrien was not raised as good as mari . He didn't interact with people that much unlike mari. So you didn't confense me.

[@mihlemaya9436]

Marinette is in Love with the idea of Adrian but not Adrian himself

[@rozyrando4853]

Honestly I'm a weird person and my biggest pet peeve about her character is how Unrealistic she is. Like if she's going to be a role model she has to at least be relatable??? This girl managed to design a cover for an album of a famous rock legend and that's considered NORMAL??? Normal people don't do that hunny.

[@alyssapinon9670]

I feel like this doesn’t get brought up enough! Like it’s fine if they make her extraordinary. Sometimes having role models who are better than the average person can inspire us. As long as the writers acknowledge that it’s not normal. I’m 20 and I haven’t even done what Marinette has accomplished in 13 years I think that’s why bobs burgers is such a popular show. It’s actually a lot like miraculous (minus the adult humor), only the family is pretty average, even struggling, so it makes even small victories seem more satisfying.

[@mommysupper9148]

Nah She just Knows his schedule by heart, stole his phone, got jealous when he was with Lila, stalks him, has a billion pictures of him on her wall, and next to her bed, has him as a wallpaper, (don't we all) have a whole map dedicated to him, and still can't tell him that she is in love with him. I've seen worst.

[@thevioletskull8158]

Just because someone must of done something worst doesn't excuse the bad behavior.

[@Hiii5436]

Did we forget trying to breaking in to his house multiple times and used ladybug to get girls away from him or drop off presents anonymously literally it cannot get worst than all the things you have listed thats basically what a stalker with a high obsession is

[@Hiii5436]

If you do that go call a therapist

[@pastelnut027]

She also has photos of him under her mattress!

[@mommysupper9148]

Oh yea!!

[@teresapatron38]

I blame the writers , there’s so much of marinette that they can do but simply don’t /want to but I don’t like the toxicity of her character 😡 that needs to stop

[@totaldramavv]

The writers aren’t doing anything wrong, they are simply trying to put our hopes down because of this love triangle disaster , marinette did have development in the NYC special after all

[@PrismOpal64]

She knows what he smells like, she's smelled his bed, she's plucked his hair and put it in her purse, she's gone through the trash to find what piece of paper he threw away, she has a borderline shrine of photos of him in her room, she watches his ads on LOOP, she's made him birthday presents for like the next 20+ years, and she knows his schedule to the MINUTE for the next 3 years... If she were a boy, people would be SCREAMING how problematic and utterly creepy she is.

[@kojikakoifish2862]

Regardless of how you feel about Marinette as a character, saying she's the CAUSE of akumatizations is rather unfair. It really strips the other characters of their personal responsibility to have more self control. A huge part of the show's early episodes and many of Mari's best moments as a person have revolved around her making a point to those akumatized that they don't HAVE to give into that anger, even if its legitimate. Everyone KNOWS that Hawkmoth is out there and is doing these things to the people of Paris, so everyone should be personally accountable for keeping their own emotions in check and dealing with them in a healthier manner. There's nothing wrong with that, life is never going to make it easy for you to keep your cool, but you do it anyway because it builds character and mental fortitude. Its a great message for this show's target audience.

[@longdong7667]

I don't like how people use "she's better in s4" as an excuse. It's been three season, not to mention the fact that it was originally a kids show. We also don't even have all of season four. It's not like in every episode of the other seasons she acted like a stalker, constantly, so a new episode could come out, and boom, she's being creepy, again. Don't get me wrong, I do think season four has a bit of a great start, but it also feels like everything was brushed aside. Like, they made one episode each to cater to fans (EX: Chat Blanc, Truth - Lukanette, Lies - Adriami, etc.) or the opposite, like when they replaced Chloe.

[@kyliechaneditzzz]

L love marinnette. She makes me laugh even when she is creepy. She is a teenager. She is still maturing. In new york special she tries her best to be a good friend. Stop hating on this sweetie pie. She makes mistakes cause she is human. It's normal to get angry. Seriously she is human not a robot .

[@kobepadua300]

yes someone is defending her you deserve many likes i'm glad i'm not the only one who is defending Marinette

[@dulceacevedo2175]

Yeah like we all had those awkward stages

[@Hiii5436]

Yes stealing someone’s phone is being human, knowing his schedule is being human, having a bunch of pictures of him everywhere is being human, having a whole map for him is being human,stalking him is being human, collecting his hair is being human, trying to break in his house multiple times i being human, dropping off anonymous presents is definitely human. Orrr you can call that a obsessive stalker. Her being a teenager is not an excuse to act like a creep and I don’t blame or hate marinette I blame the middle aged men trying to write a teenager thinking it’s okay to do these things and calls it a slip up and the fact that she’s know she can go to jail scares me

[@dulceacevedo2175]

@@Hiii5436 her intentions are pure though although you are right it is getting a bit obsessive

[@kobepadua300]

@@Hiii5436 yeah but Adrien too I will put which episode I got it from he has pictures of ladybug hidden in his rewards ( from oni chan ) he has a whole album of ladybug ( from oblivio ) Chat noir sniffed ladybug ( from animan ) and he follows the lady blog ( from dark cupid ) I'm not defending ladybug but ppl doesn't see this things and doesn't mind them at all also Marinette did steal ppl's phones but she gave it back and Marinette stole Chloe's phone bc Chloe was filming her without her permission and that is bad in France

[@savetheoaplease8112]

As always good job with the video! Personally I agree with u. The stalker behaviour is not to be joked about and aside from that, marinette has her flaws, just like every person, and her strengths like every person. Nobody is perfect and nobody can just be put in a black or white, evil or good category. We're all in the grey zone . And so is she

[@starsshinesforever1425]

Yeah I find his point very valid the stalker part not goin cap she is but like he said it’s supposed to be looked as a joke that’s honestly how I saw it being a kids show/cartoon I mean sure I would be glad if they didn’t do it but so far in season 4 I don’t rlly care about it and the other things he said definitely agree

[@MegaLpso]

She's a bad character because she doesn't face repercussions for things she does, and shes a psycho stalker. Marinatte does do nice things but its vary hard too see them because of her really bad behavior with Adrian and not wanting him too be with any girl. She likes the idea of adrian, the perfect quiet pretty boy thats nice. If she doesn't like cat noir, She's not going too like Adrian.

[@cheshirewolf1574]

On the, "she treats chat horribly" topic I think the best this to to forward is the episode where they switch miraculous I mean, the ENTIRE episode was full of her(or other people) talking about how useless he is and they the writers have him AGREE, like, YES I AM useless! And when she gave Adrian the snake miraculous she straight up said she (and Adrian) didnt NEED chat at all, so you cant say it's a "cat miraculous thing" either. I miss the partnership chemistry they had in season 1, they really did feel like team

[@kyliechaneditzzz]

Mari ain't a perfect being. She is human . No one is perfect not even Adrian except for God and Jesus who are Holy and perfect.

[@shimra7996]

So true!

[@killme7427]

I asked my younger cousin (who loves miraculous lady bug) I was questioning why she liked marinette out of curiosity.. And then... SHE LOVES WHEN MARINETTE STALKS ADRIEN AND WISHES SHE'S ANDRIEN LIKE WTF-

[@JustAnotherPerson4U]

In series 1 and 2, her stalker tendencies were more... background. Like I think I could count more episodes where she's not being obsessive and actively stalking/obsessing than she is. Not that they don't exist. But my favourite episode of Marinette and Adrien together is Kung-food. I like that episode because it focuses on Marinette's connection to her great uncle and how she wishes to connect with him. Yes, Adrien is there as a translator and she gets a bit nervous around him. But her focus is on her uncle. There's even a scene where she opens up to Adrien about her fear that her uncle didn't like her because she'd accidentally disrespected him with the flowers she gave cos he tasted a petal. She didn't stutter or show any of her usual nervousness and it was directly to Adrien. They truly felt like proper friends then. She was shown getting angry at Chloe when she was being kind of racist to her great-uncle by calling him japanese. And lumping chineae and japanese food together as one in the same. But in series 3 they just cranked her stalker tendencies and episodes up quite a few dials and it became so obvious then. I'm just waiting for a kung food episode where she's able to just relax talk to Adrien normally and have OTHER worries in her life to resolve. We KNOW she has other interests. But the writers are not focusing on that. I think the reason the fan girl behaviour looks like its stalkery is because Astruc believes that necause it's a kids show. Her crush on Adrien needs to be exaggerrated. But her and writers havent realised or refuse to acknowledge that it's actually really unhealthy to have stalkery tendencies. I think for this stalkish behaviour to have any acknowledgement that it isnt good for Marinette. Someone either new in the show, or even Adrien himself needs to find out and give her a good chewing on how unhealthy and bad it is. I doubt it'll be adrien cos she's gonna end up with him. But probably a new character who points out how unhealthy her obsession is and how wrong it is to do this to the boy she loves if she does love him.

[@fckndelr]

I agree fully on you. But Chloe wasn't racist, she was just disrepectful.

[@snatchingcareers4681]

They better drop the stalker stuff in season 4 or I think I will actually not watch

[@jennie-ri8ed]

yeah like really shes too obessed

[@snatchingcareers4681]

JungkooksBigfatdick It’s creepy! It makes me uncomfortable to watch and think about eventually they’ll be together

[@Luuni100]

Mandy in your pfp 🥰 we stan

[@snatchingcareers4681]

zhpinx Teehee♥️✨

[@inaaya1705]

Your right I don’t like it

[@ironii1599]

👁👁 are ppl really telling me that it’s okay for her to be creepy because either, 1. Other people have done worse, or 2. Because she acknowledges this in the special, or maybe even 3. Because you LIKE or AGREE with her actions ?????? Are y’all ??? Okay look. Just because people have done worse doesn’t mean it’s okay to EXCUSE bad actions. That’s like saying “Yeah sure I STOLE from someone but I didn’t KILL them for their stuff” like. You still robbed a person. Marinette still did weird shit. And addressing that second point, just wanna say, acknowledgment and character development is great and all, but like 👁👁 that doesn’t mean it’s okay for her to actually d o. It’s still weird. Just because a liar says “Yeah I lied” doesn’t mean it’s okay for them to have lied or to excuse all the damage that’s been done. And for that last point, w h y. It’s not cute or funny. It’s weird and what Marinette does, is invade another person’s space. Stop romanticizing this behavior y’all.

[@gabrieleronzino3745]

Or justify her either bc of her age or bc she’s in love.. at this point she could literally kill someone, they still will justify her. Worse is that her actions never gets presented in a bad light nor she gets called out for her behaviour.

[@theaboveaveragefangirl]

For me, the writers really need to stop with the creepy stalker stuff. It is one of the biggest things that need to be changed about the show. If Marinette is supposed to a role model, you shouldn't be showing people that stalking anyone is okay. And it is not even funny. No one enjoys seeing Marinette stalk Adrien or try to sabatoge his potential relationship with other girls. I hate that in Shanghai, she literally took it to the next level and followed him to another country. Not to mention she tracked him down with a GPS tracker! Whoever is making Marinette behave in this way needs to STOP IT. It's problematic, cringey, and awkward. And it makes Marinette seem like a bad character.

[@quietopinion9637]

If so then Make Chat Noir stop doing the same!! Just make them both not so into their crushes because honestly his crush in Ladybug is worse because he basically harasses with his feelings!!

[@theaboveaveragefangirl]

@@quietopinion9637 You're right, Cat Noir isn't doing any better job of dealing with his feelings.

[@edwardelric2905]

@@quietopinion9637 He hasn’t harassed her or anything. The most he’s done is give her a rose.

[@mariacalderon8183]

She is mean to everyone she hurts my feeling and it makes me so sad the show miraculous has to be cancelled forever

[@lisathurston6525]

I agree Marinet is very nosey and acts like she owns Adrene.

[@senylalala]

his name is adrien, not adrene- 💀

[@alinaserrano4824]

Ok so in my opinion marinette is alright there are like 2 things that i don't like about her. I don't like her obsessive stalkerish behavior twords Adrien, but I think that her behavior is going to be toned down and not so creepy, which is good. I also don't like how she gets mad whenever someone else gets close to adrien, she gets mad and picks fights, like how she did with Lila. (No im not defending lila here) like hes a frekin famous model! There are going to be thousands of girls that want to get close to him so i think she just needs to accept that, cuz shes not the only one that likes him. Lastly the way she treats cat noir. I do think that Ladybug is toxic to cat noir, because whenever he makes a mistake or cant figure something out she always ridicules him and makes fun of him, but not in a funny, goofy way (reflectdolls a good example) (not including the new york special, i do think she was reasonably mad there) she also always treats him like a nuisance and treats him like hes not important and just getting in the way, when she needs him to fight akumas, shes said multiple times that she needs cat noir. Shes also really bossy and violent with him, like when he messes up she hits him. I'm not going to let cat noirs behavior slide either. I do think that his aggressive flirting and wont take no for an answer behavior needs to stop, but I do think that Marinette/ladybug is the more problematic one here. Sorry this was long but thats all I have to say so, good day :p

[@90lancaster]

There is a mode of thought that says that Chloe hangs of Adrien to keep the fan girls off him, and that she actually really was worried that he wouldn't be her friend any more in Despair bear - so she might not even have a great romantic interest in him she just wants to retain that connection, and let's be honest Marinette would like nothing more than if Adrien never spoke to her again... She wouldn't give two hoots about both of them wanting to retain some personal connection - no matter how dysfunctional it might be. - As lets be honest both of them are very lonely. I think - I hope in 10 years time Chloe and Adrien will be much better friends.

[@Edits-fi2kl]

I don't think she is 'violent' but yeahh I do agree with most of your other points, also a good example of your point about her treating Catnoir like he is not important, is from Desperada where she literally said "come to think of it, we are okay without him (referring to cat noir)" , for some reason I think a lot of fans often overlook this one. Now, just to be clear I don't hate her but she does have her flaws, though thankfully based on the NY special it seems like that she is improving.

[@90lancaster]

@@Edits-fi2kl So that is HOW MANY times now she's realised he is important to her - (like when she looses him) only to flip-flop back to insulting and hitting him, the Girl is (to quote Nino & Alya) 'Cray Cray'. Maybe she has memory issues or something ?

[@Edits-fi2kl]

@@90lancaster this time it seems like it might last, I mean he literally gave up his miraculous and she really did seem very sad, but then again we all know that the show often has continuity isuues Ig, well let's just hope that this time it will last. Also, I hope I am not being rude but what do mean by 'hitting'? I mean she might have sometimes playfully poked him Ig but 'hitting' or 'violent' might be an exaggeration, really.

[@90lancaster]

@@Edits-fi2kl She Smacks him heavily on the head on purpose with her Yo Yo in Silencer, and also smacked him on the head with the baton in Refelktdoll, she also berates him, condescends towards him and implies he's stupid, she also doesn't think much of him that is polite - she pretty much always assumes the worse in a situation - she's kinda 'not nice.'. Not to mention that time she throw him off the top of a skyscraper while he was under the influence of an Akuma - which likely killed him (so someone may have seen Cat Noir's dead body on the ground and know LB did it - before it was undone). Other times in season one she bopped him it was by accident and she appologises - later she never appologises and does it on purpose - she's like the kinda girl who slaps her boyfriend around knowing they won't fight back as they don't want to "Hit a girl" - and well she wouldn't expect him to humiliate her, call her names and hit her on the head if he was the leader would she ? Also as other have pointed out - when she makes a mistake he's all "supportive and we will fix this together" - if he does something wrong most of the time it's just another excuse to belittle and insult him (again).

[@bjorn4215]

One thing that really bugs me about the ships in the show is how they lead each other on. Marinette knew she still loved Adrien, so did Luka even, yet she still dated Luka. Luka knew that she still loved Adrien, yet he still liked her so much as to date her when all of her romantic interest is towards Adrien. And then how Ladybug treats Chat is just sad. She’s flirted with him and in Glaciator said something along the lines of “No, you don’t get it! We could pretend to be a couple” to Chat knowing full well how Chat feels for her, he even replied saying “Sorry Ladybug, it isn’t cool to mess with people’s feelings.” This show has places where it could definitely fix up things, or if they don’t, at least call it out as bad behaviour. This is a show targeted for children, if you make bad characters call them out as such, don’t let the bad behaviour go by as a joke.

[@fififijiflowerpotswater5379]

While she has very bad traits she still is a nice person and kinda funny so I can't hate her. Although the stalkeriness needs to change

[@sarahnguyen2123]

I don’t see her problematic but just obsessive with things that r not rly a big deal. but the Lila thing lying and all dat shit is pretty bad, and Marinette is way too focused on dat. I hope that shit stops cuz Marinette doesn’t deserve to bet with frikcin Lila. we also cringe seeing her stalk frickin Adrien. but I feel like she stopped dat habit cuz in da ny EPI rite, she like tried to think of him as a friend, which means it’s possible she stopped her habits. I hope in season 4 she matured and starts to realize her obsessive behavior can be out of hand.

[@90lancaster]

I suspect she will over compensate in her role as Guardian and in someways get worse.

[@FatimaMohammed-ns6bd]

I can barely understand what you said.

[@genzrlysucks2500]

At the end of nyc special she chases after him which symbolises she’s gonna continue

[@meequalsbookworm3029]

I agree on all that except Ladybug’s behavior toward Chat Noir. I have no issue with her turning him down- even harshly on the occasion that he tries to kiss her (which is rare)- but that she was mean to him constantly in seasons 1-3 and has ignored/babied him in season 4 makes me borderline hate her But Adrian is my fav so maybe I’m just being defensive

[@randomaccount6812]

Seriously, I love the way most of the fans are protecting Marinette here, wow. I mean, why don't do that with Adrien too? It's very off-topic I know but most of you fans usually keep joking about Adrien and how he keeps telling Marinette is a friend, when it comes to Marinette's huge obsession and weird behaviors y'all go protective mode. Let's be honest, this is all the writer's fault, I'll be honest but I don't even see a story in this show anymore, everyone in the class is getting miraculous, breaking a sids character's redemption arc, giving the bald looking man another miraculous to form with and no villain side characters other than some cheap ass girl who wants the Fox miraculous. (Get it?) I've even seen theories Lila would be Hawkmoth, come on. I'm not saying the show is terrible as it has a good amount of audience but the stuff they do clearly doesn't make sense at all, of course I alone cannot beat such a great writer when it comes to scenario writing but now. Every character should have flaws, but flaws aren't some random behaviors that shows up when you're not popular enough and all, Ladybug seems to represent woman power just great, but Marinette cannot live without a man, how does that make sense?

[@edwardelric2905]

I’m not an expert writer but, I could’ve written this show better than Astruc did.

[@randomaccount6812]

@@edwardelric2905 Seriously same, I'm also not an expert and even I could do that with a great team of friends. He may be experienced but with a team I believe it's easy to beat such lazily written scenerios.

[@erinlee1927]

(quick disclaimer: it's been a bit since i've watched miraculous ladybug, so im sorry if my info is a little inaccurate--feel free to correct me in the replies :)) In my opinion marinette is a rude person. I feel like a lot of people never mention how she's rude to her friends and often disregards them, especially when it comes to adrien (which connects to her obsession w him). When she loses her temper (which is fairly often), she ends up being mean to everyone around her, including her fellow students and her family. She's also self righteous-- in one of the christmas episodes, the arrogance she has being the "best behaved kid" really rubbed me the wrong way. That's part of the main issue i have with marinette overall though. The show doesn't acknowledge her faults. All the stuff i listed above isn't really a huge problem when it comes to her character in the story-- no one's perfect and it's good to show people with flaws, but it is a problem when the show makes marinette out to be some perfect little angel and she never gets any real punishments for her actions. I mean, come on, there's actually no way in heck marinette is genuinely the "best behaved kid." And she gets so much praise from everyone in the show besides the show's "villains"--ex. chloe EDIT: OK I WATCHED SEASON 4 AND AM IN THE MIDDLE OF SEASON 5 SHE GOT BETTER STILL DOES KINDA IMPOLITE THINGS WITHOUT REALIZING IT BUT I LIKE HER A LOT MORE NOW LOL

[@YuriPlisetskyKinnie]

Marinette is, iffy, her creepy stalkering is uncomfortable and the Shang-Hai special just made it so much worse

[@thebeast8204]

My main issue with the special is when Marinette blames Chat Nori. For one she gives him no chances to explain his circumstance, Tow what would he do against a sentimonster, he can't destroy them only makes them go out of control which would cause more damage. Most likely similar to how Hawk Moth ordered Miura to destroy the monster in the special, The moment he had that techno villain inside the museum, Marinette would most likely have to deal with him in order to go back to France. Giving Hawk Mothe plenty of time to call Miura. Third Chat Nori dose does not have any access to the other Miraculuses in case he needs backup only the pager he received. Forth Ladybug is literally the only character that can de-evilise and fix any damage with Lucky Charm. Speaking of which her lucky charm now can only fix the damage of one villain, then why has it always worked before with multiple villains? Fifth and last point Mairenet to me is not a problematic character I watch the show because it's entertaining. I don't have an issue with her Stalker tendencies in the series because i find it funny it's a show, something to be enjoyed. I look back on cartoons I watched as a kid and remember many with jokes and seans which now are considered "problematic" such as the effects of drinking smoking, and drug use. Seeing that made me use commonsense as a kid something we seem to be lacking nowadays. Having her have stalker tendencies should send out warning signals but there's no need to get rid of it. There could be growth for Marinet as a character with this if the show decides to use it in that way. people seem to want to destroy anything thay disagree with, in... well anything nowadays from statues to stores to tv shows and movies. Letting people see and determine what thay will of topics, opinions, ideas, ethics, actions, motives in anything is fine. Ps, i really don't see how people can compare Akumatizations from Marinet and Chloe that is weird.

[@candace219]

@The Beast I agree with you on something a bit not others. One, she actually does give him a chance, he just doesn't take it. Two, he isn't supposed to take them on by himself, that's what the little cat thing she gave him is for, to call her back if something happens. She most likely would've come back right away, not stayed to deal with Techno-pirate since there were other heroes around who could deal with him themselves. Three, Again, Ladybug would've come back right away, even if they do for some reason, need another Miraculous. Fourth, again, Ladybug would probably be there. And when has her lucky charm ever took on two villains at a time? ( I say that as a genuine question, if any of this sounds condescending or offensive or whatever, I'm really sorry I don't mean it QwQ) I agree with your fifth point tho. I guess it's gotten to the point where people have run out of things Miraculous to talk about so now they're being super nitpicky lol

[@thebeast8204]

@@candace219 Oh, no problem at all I like to have conversations about shows i enjoy. My main examples for when Ladybugs miraculous worked on multiple villains were mainly Heros day and Reflect Doll. Though thay are rather week examples as you can say it was all due to Scarlet mouth and Reflecta not doing anything in Reflect doll. After the special, I mainly just wanted to vent. I really like Chat Noir/Adrian's character and would like to see him do more in the next season for Miraculous.

[@candace219]

@The Beast I'm glad :) but yea I think that's what everyone wants lol. I really hope they make him at least *close* to Ladybugs strength because he sure as heck isn't now.

[@Snicketbar]

Marinette's 'quirky behavior' is the writers lazily trying pad the episode. Since they don't have enough material to fill it otherwise. That's why it's dismissed so frequently.

[@yaarareshef3034]

Yes, Marinette is problematic. I still love her and she is my favorite character

[@theinfomusx1613]

Stop!!!!! You have ruined the show by over analysing it

[@mmmurmurrr9937]

I feel like the difficulty? for her to tell Adrien how much she loves him burdens her so maybe thats why she was super obsessed. She also seems to idolize him way too much which maybe also makes it hard she probably sees him like a fictional character in a way. Either way thats not an excuse for how she acts but im glad theyre slowly trying to make her not so obsessive and also for character development. I really wish they never made her act like a stalker though if i saw this show when i was younger id definitely feel influenced that hey its ok to be creepy towards boys i like ahaha.

[@Eshalll.00]

I have a spot spot for her like I love her but she needs to stop being creepy

[@thegoodguy4443]

Actually she didn't created herself but the one that created her is Thomas so I guess Thomas astruc does the same in front of his crush I don't know but it I am positive

[@suzshisush7810]

I personally don't think she's problematic. Although they did go way too far with the stalker thing, I think that there's trying to do it to by funny(?)(it's not). Overall she's a good person who is passionate about being Ladybug. Yes, she makes a lot of mistakes but we also have to remember she's only 14. What she does sometimes(like with the Lila thing)is a bit too much, but I get where she's coming from. When you think about it, if you're 14 year old having a crush on someone, and someone else disses you to get with them, you're gonna do something irrational. What she does still isn't right but when you put age and context together, you can reason it out.

[@candace219]

I think I like your comment and explanation the best tbh --w--

[@jjescorpiso21]

Exactly. She's 14. We've all been some sort of crazy when we were teenagers. Teenagers don't make sense, they don't always learn from their mistakes. We should give everyone a break for being "problematic". Im just glad there's a problematic female protagonist at all tbh.

[@josephinee.s]

you comment explains it so well

[@samanthasolboe4474]

But Marinette can’t be a bad person! Santa said that she was the best kid in the world! 😔

[@angusroberts2548]

No one’s perfect mate Marrinette is not a bad person she just has a bad habit And Adrien is confused , somewhat desperate and lonely ever since his mum died who can blame him

[@lillianwhite169]

Kids aren’t gonna care about all the downs of the show. It’s not a *buuuuuuuuug* deal!🤣

[@KOT-br3tk]

Exactly

[@jackphoto8816]

Something I have a problem with is not only her stalker behavior, it is how she treats Chat Noir, your points make sense and I agree on most but Chat Noir’s behavior can be blamed by bad writing though anything he does receives consequences and backlash from the one he loves or others and not to mention he has to go back to his life of perfection, no privacy, being stalked and emotional abused by his father. It makes sense for him to be so clingy to the one person who sets him free, I would say he respects ladybug far more than Marionette respects Adrian’s boundaries as the show has gone on. I believe he’s still flirty cause that’s all he knows how to be so he can be opposite of his counterpart Adrien, a side of him he hates. He gets consequences for his actions, ladybug does not and even after ladybug makes mistakes she’s forgiven almost immediately like with Tiki, her friends, Fu, Luka, and many others even when she’s just plain petty/mean. I also dislike how he really is used like her accessory or sidekick in the show, his power has shown to be more useful in certain cases and could be more. Adriens development and backstory if far more interesting than marionettes because well he actually has a little. He sacrificed way to much because he believes he’s her partner not only because he loves her. The NY special showed some Mari development but knowing the shows reputation on contradicting itself and ruining characters development like Chloe and ignoring Adrien. I sadly doubt it. If you want ladybug to be a role model, show her getting long-term consequences and develop her into a normal person not a stalker. All Adrien wants is a friend, not another fan.

[@quietopinion9637]

Blame the writers then NOT the character! JEEZZ

[@jackphoto8816]

@@quietopinion9637 The writers MADE her character like this so it is her in a way, both are bad because of the writers

[@localchibigameuser9732]

I have a couple of problems with this show and I'm gonna address them: 1: Marinette's stalker stuff and shit. It really needs help like everyone like I mean EVERYONE treats it like it's some cute quirky kink and not some creepy crap that could put u in jail. She's breaking into his frickin house using HER miraculous. like...I hope s4 isn't shitty marinette all over again. 2: The designs. Sometimes there bland sometime's there terrible and sometime's there just there. Okay so first of all the bubbler.. what the fuck was nino's villan outfit? what the fuck was it? that wasn't anything. it was just a mix of colors that's it it's terrible. Next, Ladybug's outfit. Ladybug's outfit is so bland like it has nothing with the exciting music why not add something more then a red elastic shirt with black spots along with her lucky charm. that's all same with Chat. He literally has nothing on him but I guess it's probably better then Mari's. there's too many characters with terrible designs over all so I'm not gonna say them all(duh) One of them is luka though. 3: LUcKy ChArm. It ruins the tension of "HOw Wwil THeY DEfEAt tHiS vILLAn" like. most shows with hero's have the hero's do a unique way everytime to defeat a villan but no. mlb has the luck charm it can solve anything, anywhere. it also tells u WHAT to use it on. like it's too powerful if it can literally defeat the villans so easily, what's the point of fighting? Why not just use the lucky charm from the start? What's the point of building the tension just to break it so easily? 4: Rude Marinette. She literally humiliates anyone who does anything to her. 5: There was the origins part 2 I think. where marinette TRANSFORMED infront of fucking alya and alya just didn't notice. and Adrien ALSO transformed in the fucking locker room like? What's with all the bad writing thomas?

[@quietopinion9637]

What about Chat Noir's sexual harassment or are just Chat Noir biased?? 🙄👌

[@aoto8897]

@@quietopinion9637 Says the marinette biased... I saw your other replies to others and you’re such a marinette bias fan, and I’m not gonna expect a reply from you because you have nothing to back your claims.

[@CatalinaLinal7710]

Honestly, my biggest issue with Marinettes character is the Ladynoir dynamic. I'm all here for the show FINALLY letting Adrien understand that Ladybug said "no" (that overstayed its welcome way too long), but the way it took til the absolute WORST possible thing to happen at the end of season 4 (and Marinette literally having no other option anymore) for Chat Noir to FINALLY receive respectful treatment from Marinette simply has destroyed this ship for me. The alarming extremes the show goes to make sure that Marinette treating Chats body autonomy, consent, dignity and safety "justifiedly" as optional in her girl power leadership because "lol isn't she COOL? So in control!" has crossed every line I as an abuse victim can bare watching sometimes. And yes, I AM a woman. I merely have standards for the girls in my feminism too. The difference between the way Marinette treats every other hero and her treatment of Chat Noir is GLARING. Especially because Adrien NEVER gets to even remotely defend himself against Ladybug, neither her words nor her physical treatment of him in like... anyway at this point. Because that is declared misogynistic by this show and dynamic. Like, remember in "Feast" where Marinette deliberately used Chat as a sacrificial tool in her plan, did ZERO communication on it with him and just pushed him into the akuma with a giggle.. and OF COURSE she was rewarded with a hand kiss for it, because what else ? Yeah, how is any of this supposed to be healthy feminism? There is simply nothing Ladybug is apparently not allowed to do to her partner and it HAS to be alarmingly undermined because she's a girl and he's a boy. The way Marinette treats Chat Noir by default for 4 seasons includes so many factors I as an abuse victim had to learn to recognize in the way others treat me so I can find my own worth and put up proper boundaries in my relationships. And yet Miraculous is over here playing the girlboss card to such excessive extents that the show AND FANDOM literally just send the message, that if I had been born a boy the abuse I've been through would not only hardly have been issues that need to be taken serious, apparently if my future wife does it it's actually her RIGHT in her female empowerment to get to do all of that, not be called out for it and have me served to her willing and with no standards for myself in our relationship. And if I dont like something I just need to always drink "respect women juice" cuz I would need "to learn to respect her strong leadership qualities" and that it's not only okay but GOOD that her gender is being used to give her all the privileges, knowledge and relevance imaginable while I get absolutely nothing (not even crucial battle informations that would keep me safe) because I'd be my job as her supportive little husband to merely settle for being allowed by her to be part of her team of basically voiceless minions. I am do incredibly disappointed in the extreme feminist route this show has gone and that it had the audacity to throw male abuse victims under the bus because Marinette is seemingly owed a perfect therapist husband who wouldn't ask for anything and will unconditionally take care of her now forever no matter how her side of the dynamic acts. The way I wouldn't even mind Ladynoir and the shows feminism at this point 5 seasons in half as much if Adrien/Chat Noir had just been her love interest and that's it. But no. We HAD to drag abuse victims into this by having Adrien/Chat Noir be Hawkmoths abused son who gets put through almost every parental abuse the show can get away with. All of this mixes so incredibly badly to the point where I as a young woman honestly just have to draw a line and say that, nope, the show is having problematic priorities here. I would be stupid to not be all here for female empowerment in the way Miraculous wants to be progressive by Marinette/Ladybug being given this much significance and power, but I'm secure enough in my womanhood to recognize that Adrien's/Chat Noirs life of child abuse at the mercy of the main villain simply is the more important thing here. It's nice that as a woman I'm allowed to make more money than my husband and that I can be the one in charge with the power in our relationship, but PLEASE 1) don't declare the mere concept of my female empowerment as more important as my abused future husband's entire personhood because it makes me look better in comparison. PLEASE help him first before making sure I'm the embodiment of all female empowerment in existence, and 2) if my female empowerment entirely relies on my male partner unknownst to me leading a horribly abusive home life - so even if I treat him badly he wouldn't either recognize it because he's blinded by the toxic love he's used to receiving or he wouldn't dare to properly hold me accountable and ask better of me because I as the woman can now use the same excuses and shields my position and Titels enable me to as his abusive father - then maybe my female empowerment story needs to get a grip and stop benefitting from my male love interests horrible abusive and neglective life and even declare me justified and systematically above it. Just a thought.

[@emilijaacer04]

*Plot twist*They cept original curse of Cat Noir and he actually likes Lady Bug because of it.But its secret that kwamis can't tell.He can take off the ring but feelings are still there and Lady Bug needs to fall in love with both sides of him. I just find original content interesting.

[@joosoo]

Marinette is sort of a mean girl, just not as obvious as Chloe. Chloe is the blonde popular stereotype, but Mari is sort of a Mary Sue in that even when she acts like a petty asshole to other characters, GUESS WHAT, she’s right because they’re incompetent compared to her or they’re actually mean too and going to be a villain!! Even when she’s rude and creepy, she’s *still* in the right by the plot.

[@kindabatooni9314]

She is a mixed bag but her treatment of Cat Noir is NOT okay . Not because of the rejections , that’s her right. But because of the way she puts him down and humiliate him like the horrible way she treated him in Reflektdoll: Ladybug is not supportive of him when he screws up unlike how supportive he is of her and it shows in Reflektdoll and other episodes: And she can only have the time to think of a plan because he acts like the bait and shield for her ungrateful *** , how dare she call a job that is way more dangerous than hers “easy” ? How dare the writers pretend she’s right specially when she degrades and humiliate the person who gives his life for her so she get to think of a plan and get all the recognition after? 1-Imagine him hitting her on her head in gamer2 and telling her in a snarky conceited way “ That’s not how to play “ then proceed to make fun of her for being a sore loser and high jacking his turn in the game. That would have made her feel small and lose confidence instead he lovingly advised her without making fun of her at all , respectfully gave up his turn in the game for her to prove herself,told her he believed in her and that all she needs to do is have a bit of fun and take the opportunity to do things she never can do in real life , then he sacrificed himself for her. That’s how supportive he is. 2- Imagine him making fun of her and blaming her for all her mistakes in Miracle Queen when she didn’t know what to do with her lucky charm making her completely lose confidence and think she’s worthless ( that’s exactly what she did to him in Reflektdoll she never even told him she believed in him she treated him like an idiot and was snarky and frustrated instead of supportive) 3- Imagine him treating her in that snarky belittling way in Origins when she didn’t believe in herself . Calling her simple or a coward ( since she called him a clown )She would have given up being Ladybug for sure but he was so supportive as usual and his pep talk is what made her fire up and deliver that awesome speech in front of all Paris. I mean, what kind of supportive partner Ladybug is when she tells him mockingly how “easy” his job is when he freaking risks his life and sacrifices himself for that job ...

[@pearlspouch4219]

I agree with you. And I'm not saying Ladybug is justified for treating Chat the way she did in Reflekdoll. But when they switched miraculouses, she was just trying to put Chat Noir/Mister Bug in her shoes. She was being snarky and teasing him a lot, because she wanted him to see how difficult/stressful it is for her to try and think of a plan to use her lucky charm (which are extremely complicated), dodge the villain, and have Chat Noir right there just teasing and flirting with her. I'm not saying he's useless compared to her, but he's not helping when he's teasing and flirting with her, knowing that she has to focus on the task at hand. That's why she was turning the tables on him, with her frustrating him and teasing him. I'm not defending the way she acted in that episode, I didn't like it either. But to be honest, if i was her, I'd do the same thing. I'd help him out while teasing him, though; instead of being all cocky like she was. I also don't really notice anyone calling Chat Noir out for his behavior a lot of times in Season 1. At the time, Ladybug didn't know he was in love with her, which is one of the reasons why she didn't really like him. Even if she wasn't in love with Adrien, I still don't think she would have gained feelings for him back in s1. Maybe s2 or s3, though. Still he was very persistent and arrogant as Chat, and personally I think she had every right to be annoyed with him in Season 1. That's one of the most realistic things in the show. But he's developed in Season 2 all the way to the special. But I agree Chat Noir is mistreated in the show by other characters. At least he's loved by the fandom.😅

[@kindabatooni9314]

Butter Butt I’m sorry, She wasn’t trying to put him in her shoes because he never treated her that way. He never never made her the butt of his jokes or humiliated her or hit her or made fun of her or rubbed her failures in her face like she did. He never did that ever. There is no excuse for the way she treats him and it’s not just in Reflektdoll. her job is not harder than his job. This is the worst message the show tried to send. Cat Noir’s job is to be the bait , shield and risk his life so she can think of a plan. She has no right to treat him like that. Maybe Cat Noir should hit her , make fun of her , looks down on her and makes her lose all confidence in herself to also make her live in his shoes and how she treats him. I m 100% sure she would have given up being Ladybug if he treated her like she treats him.

[@kristenbrinn3940]

I really hope they change it too. I can’t stand Marinette acting so creepy all the time. It makes me want to take a break in the middle of watching the episode.

[@kobepadua300]

and i cant stand Adrien also being a stalker he has pictures of ladybug hidden in his throphies has a album of ladybug tries to make her jealous in heart hunter and sniffed Ladybug in Animan

[@shimra7996]

@@kobepadua300 same lol.

[@90lancaster]

Hell Yes Marinette is one hell of a piece of work, HOWEVER - that isn't always a bad thing it depends on if she still has a good side outside of letching after Adrien, and how cruel she is as Ladybug to Cat Noir. If she's both cruel to Cat Noir and doesn't do anything positive as Marinette then yeah she's kinda creepy and bullying and weird. Some of which we can excuse to some degree as we excuse Cat Noir being creepy an weird too - the difference is that Marinette is weird, and Ladybug is arrogant and a bully, & there isn't as much balance now in season 3 and the special as there was in Season 1 & 2 ; where Ladybug was (mostly) not as mean to Cat Noirm where his flirting wasn't so obnoxious, he had his Pouty kitty act that comes out from time to time, but i'd say she's mean more often than not to the extent her being "nice" is the exception, I do however feel a tiny bit sorry for Marinette as she did have the right idea to "try" to be a Good friend and not a creepy stalker and Alya just outright sabotaged her as she wanted her Adrienette ship to sail. But yeah she's a problem so long as the negatives out weight the positives & lets be frank here she actually got worse in the New York Special - a lot worse. Think about it ; She knows Adrien is in love with someone else (puppeteer 2) and she suspects it's Kagami & Kagami is her friend and she said at the end of season 3 - she was going to step back and give them a chance, instead she actively pursued him still - pretty much chased him down & was going to try to claim him - even though as far as she's aware Kagami is the girl Adrien is hooked up with - so she's doing something kinda bad there (from the knowledge she has).. But The Adrien also off to New York and didn't bother to even tell Kagami - when she was expecting to see him the next day - showing he doesn't think about her when she's not in front of him any more than Marinette does think about Cat Noir when she'd not directly reminded of him by him being in front of her. Also notice this - her reaction to loosing Cat Noir was to chase Adrien and Alya reaction was to push her into it when she see's him leaving - neither of them care one jot what Adrien wants and if they both think he'd dating Kagami then both of them are acting well Immorally to be honest... I think the expression is "Home Wrecker". Marinette's Flaws are numerous and diverse and so are Lady Bug's even though they do balance them to some degree by making Marinette a screw up and lady Bug a perfect goddess. LB is still not without her bad points - and self-obsession and emotional blindness is a characteristic of both personas - it's why I do honestly sometimes wonder if she's Autistic or a bit obsessive compulsive or has Hyper-activity attention deficit disorder - as the behaviour does kinda fit her personality. I'm interested to see how her personality quirks makes her miss-handle being a Guardian too though.

[@thevioletskull8158]

Good points but it’s very offensive that you say that she might be autistic because she’s obsessive. It’s a gross stereotype.

[@bluebird1914]

People don't dislike her because she rightfully so tells Chat Noir that she's not interested, it's because of how she tends to treat Chat as second rate. Like in the episode where they swap miraculous, and Ladybug is just being a dick to him because surprise surprise, he doesn't know how to use the lucky charm. She had no reason to be rude to him, but she did so anyway. As for the second rate bit, how about the fact that he doesn't know who Rena Rouge is or any of the other miraculous users? If Ladybug also didn't know who they were it would be fine, but she does know, but he's not allowed to know. That's not exactly equal.

[@quietopinion9637]

Blame the writers then NOT the character!

[@ComicBooksandVideoGameNerd96]

Also I have a question when you guys figure out each other's secret identities will you still like each other because I want Adrien like Marinette for Marinette not because she's ladybug and vice versa I want you to like Cat Noir for Cat Noir not because he's Adrien. I want you guys to like each other for who you are not for those personas that you guys can put on when y'all fight crime

[@deadscent4244]

In my perperspictive it would be good if marenette and aridren /cat noir could overcome the bad habits in season 4 and 5

[@GamerAJ-1025]

The thing that bothers me about Ladybug and Chat's dyanmic is that, while Chat is a bit obsessive and needs to tone it down, Ladybug stops even beaing nice to him. She's incredibly ciritcal of him and treats him like a mild annoyance at best. And this is incredibly painful to watch, especially since he is an abused child and criticism plays a huge part in the emotional abuse he receives from his father. I'd prefer to see Ladybug treat him more like what he allegedly is - one of her closest friends - instead this comic-relief punching bag of a character. And it's obviously not a fault in Marinette's character, it's a flaw in the writing itself because I find it hard to imagine that Marinette (and S1/2 Ladybug) would ever be so cold towards her kitty. It's the fact that the writers took it in this direaction for seemingly no reason that bothers me.

[@taticalypso-halls2261]

Damn! You just roasted chat noir! 🤣 I think it's because their teenagers and they are learning how to handle their emotions.

[@jjescorpiso21]

Yes. They're teenagers! This should be pointed out more.

[@craigpeoples9883]

@@jjescorpiso21Not really what teenager acts like that

[@sharvipatwardhan9219]

The prob is that Marinette is a creepy stalker, annoying and very rude like with Andre or lila and moreover whenever anybody even talks about Cat she acts like he is a clown that's in her way when he has supported her so may times. And ladybug is worse, she is also a Prima Donna in my opinion.

[@josephseo7367]

I never thought abt this before, but Marinette IS a stalker. Like wtf 😂. Also, I’m glad that somebody finally agrees with me that Marinette caused a lot of alumatizations. However, the alumatizantions of Max and her grandmother etc isn’t Marinette’s fault. But I don’t blame Cat Noir to be so touchy with Ladybug, cause remember his kwami is Plagg. Plagg is the reason why Cat Noir is acting so flirty. When Marinette had the Cat miraculous, her attitude changed too and she kinda became like Cat Noir, except for being touchy and flirty

[@kobepadua300]

no !!!! do you mind to rewatch feast again Adrien was still calling her bugaboo so you defending chat is wrong the reason is in there webisode Chat tells that when his chat he gets to be whoever he want's and Adrien is just his frame so i guess his a i would say charming character so your wrong sorry not sorry there miraculous doesn't change there personality good theory tho

[@90lancaster]

Yep, she sure is, she steals his stuff, she gets insanely jealous of other girls, to the point she will ignore their good advice (like with Chloe), She went behind Kagami's back knowing she is interested in Adrien and thinking Kagami is the girl Adrien is in love with), she's broke into his house more than once. She has access to his full schedule (likely has it memorised too). She bakes him a passion fruit macaroon every sunday (just in case), spends much of the school day staring at the back of his head. has a "shrine" of sorts to him, and has on occasion followed him around. So yep.. she's a stalker.

[@josephseo7367]

@kobe padua haha 😂. Everyone has their own opinions. You have a good theory too

[@cattractive]

I actually agree with the Chat Noir part. Ladybug has been polite to him and let him down nicely, but he keeps pushing and asking even after no. And now, after a million no. Like, if anything that’s smth that makes Chat Noir problematic. I totally get Ladybug, even after nicely letting him down, he keeps pushing. And then goes to complain about how much it hurts him like it’s Ladybugs fault. And get mad when his romantic setups don’t work. In Glaciator Ladybug said she might not make it and he got mad when she didn’t. I know there are times when Chat doesn’t deserve to be treated as he is, like in reflekdoll. And i’m not saying Ladybug treats him good (because there are times where she’s unecessarily mean), i’m talking more about the rejections now. But giving Ladybug all the blame is really mean on her.

[@depressedteacupinc8494]

Ok I disagree about the case you make about NY and her treatment towards Chat it is not overblown at all. Let’s start with the NY special. Just like Miracle Queen, in the NY special, Hawkmoth actually made a really good plan. Even if Chat was in Paris, he would have been deemed basically useless, because LB’s powers have been overblown and are way too OP. Chat couldn’t have likely done anything because it has been drilled into our brain that Chat can’t really do anything without Ladybug. And even if he did make a mess up, Ladybug makes same kind of mess ups too! It’s because Chat is kind of weakened by the creators that make his mistakes look so much worse. And ALSO, what the hell actual reaction did LB have?! She literally went to start actually screaming at him in front of strangers how terrible he is and how she can never trust him anymore and I think this is those overreactions and downright mean comments for no reason that get people rightfully angry. Whenever LB is upset, she says some stuff which frankly would destroy anyone, especially someone who is in love with her. I’m not even talking about Chat being too forward (she has the right to say no and reject him and he is too forward and somewhat stubborn) I’m talking about small mistakes he made, which again are blown up to show how he’s so weak. The perfect example of this is the episode Reflekdoll. LB on her first go with the miraculous, was encouraged and hyped up by Chat Noir no matter how many little mistakes she made. Mr. Bug on the other hand? Yeah no he doesn’t understand how the miraculous works right ahead? Oh yeah let’s actually hit him and scream at him. This is not “refreshing”. This is not “empowering”. This is a character downright being an ass for someone making menial mistakes, when if the situation was reversed, would have been seen as the most wrong thing in the world. Finally, and this is a flaw I find about many of your analyses, you never take into account the fandom’s view and creators view. Yeah you say that the fandom criticises Marinette a lot? Nope it’s a loud minority, becauseif you actually look at content created on social media you see that many people still absolutely adore Marinette, and still drag Adrien through the dirt. Take the NY special! When Marinette says that she and Adrien are just friends, everyone went “ohoho how the tables have turned! You go girl you’re amazing!” And yet when Adrien says marinette is an important friend to him, the fandom brings up the “just a friend” jokes *again* and call him terrible. And also, Thomas Astruc. He has literally verbally confirmed and always says how much better LB is then chat and how she deserves so much more then him, and when someone else objects, Thomas will simply call the person sexist or ignorant, making the problem and the rightful accusation suddenly this big message about women and society, to avoid actually admitting that they’re right. You said people are taking stuff at a very surface level? doing more research about what the fandom supports percentage wise, and seeing everything Thomas says will give you a much more different view of the issue. I hope I have made my point well. I don’t mean to insult, but I find that there are always gap-holes in your case because you only take reference from stuff that happen on the show, and always seem to ignore what the fandom outside of the loud minority is saying.

[@FeligamiAdrizoeSworaDennisTRF]

Agreed.

[@thesimpofanimesandmangasuv6541]

For me, the writers should change Marinette's obsession over Adrien, abusing her power (scene: Using her power just to go to Lila and tell her their not friends), to stop getting mad and jealous because of some girl talking to 'her man' ( Scene: she tried to sabotage kagami in the theatre event with chloe even though kagami didn't do something bad to her), stalking Adrien ( he needs privacy) , and her creepy obsession again. They need to make her character develop gUuuuuuuuD UvU then it'll make the story better just don't change her clumsiness, I like when she is clumsy.

[@michellero5082]

I personally think the problem is ENTIRELY her crush on Adrian. Outside of that she’s really not bad she’s kind to her friends stands up to bullies and problem solves which is great BUT her stalker behavior is AWFUL and I’ve still not gotten over how despite her better judgement gave kagami the miraculous again despite knowing it was unsafe simply due to her jealousy. This action leads to Chloe not only getting akumatized but getting her hands on ALL OF THE MIRACULOUSES the only reason this doesn’t terribly screw up everything is plot armor and until the creators drop marionettes pillow sniffing yandere personality I have to say she’s problematic

[@90lancaster]

She not only sniffs him and his stuff - she even mirrors his movements. (Though that maybe reused animation keys)

[@peachpink3521]

Me who's about to watch the New York special: *......... not again, this happens with every single movie I watch!*