Is MegaChurch A Biblical Model for Church? 12 Issues | Matt Dabbs

[@revolutionofordinaries]

What is your take on megachurch? Passing fad or here to stay?

[@Charleston4Jesus]

I believe the megachurch model is on its way out. What may have been popular and worked in the 90's we are finding out today some 30yrs later was not such a good model. Basicly how the megachurch model came into being was a bunch of Pastors would go to Willowcreek (the father of the megachurch) conferences to learn these church growth schemes from Willowcreek then take it back to where they are. That is where the Pastor of the megachurch I was in learned from. They all would go to Willowcreek conferences together. Instead of God growing the church they used business practices of the world and brought that model into the church with all kinds of marketing schemes. Is it any wonder 30yrs later we are finding out that the business model does not work so good in the church. I believe the megachurch may not completely go away but attitudes have changed about the megachurch especially among young people who the megachurch was targeting building the church around the professional worship band, programs, and "relevant seeker-sensitive" messages. They learned all this from Willowcreek. The younger people today see the megachurch as a business which they are turned off by because in the world they are seen as marketing toward as consumers. They do not want that. So, I am seeing a shift to more smaller church. It may not be small like house church small but just smaller around 50-150 small or transitioning to Microchurch model. Really 150 is about the average size of most churches in America in the traditional model. There is some kind of movement to get back to more smaller church going on. I do not know if its more of a reactionary against the megachurch model to go from very big to very small but there is something going on in America that the people of God are looking for more smaller church. Its always hard because we think shouldn't church want to grow and not stay small? Some actually stay small because they want to stay small so they kinda shut down any growth perhaps because when you grow past a number then more challenges come. So in order to not have to deal with those challenges they stay small because its easier to manage on a smaller level. What happens if God starts to grow the numbers though if its God growing the numbers not attractional models. Alot of churches started out in homes or Bible studies but then grew so instead of multiplying from house to house or using free public spaces they only thought about the next logical step moving into the building. I am not totally against the building if you could stay small in the building like storefront small but you get bigger than that then you start having to have paid staff on top of rent for the space etc. Because you can't manage it all by yourself. Unless you got steady donors or sponsors you gonna run into supporting staff and the building.

[@lindacornett1114]

I've been a Christian for almost 27 years and although I attend services every Sunday, the times I've truly experienced church is when it's been me and a few other believers talking about scriptures and life together - usually in someone's living room or on their front porch. That's church to me.

[@revolutionofordinaries]

Yes! We get this every Sunday in home church.

[@robertkersten3971]

Just this morning this thought came to me. What’s the real difference between the Church that Jesus was building, that was described in the book of Acts, and the institutionalized religious organizations that we’ve inherited from the time of Constantine? The pre-Constantine Ecclesia was a living organism, like a tree. What Christendom gave us was still wooden, but had been cut down and carved into a replica of a tree. A living plant produces fruit for reproductive purposes, (disciples). A sculpture of a tree cannot produce anything, because it’s dead. Your analysis about the so-called mega church is spot on, but like one of your other commentators already stated, these issues can apply to much smaller congregations as well.

[@revolutionofordinaries]

Great analogy Robert!

[@andylynnpei]

Knocked it out of the park with this one. Now to build, restoration is a never ending approach to scriptures.

[@revolutionofordinaries]

Amen Andy! Thank you so much for your encouragement.

[@copterpilot50]

Another great video! You mentioned a few more things that are on my list of 25-ish "traditions of men" that are NOT found in the bible. "Programs" - not in the bible. Compulsory giving ... NOT in the NT. One man running the show ... NOT in the NT. (ElderS -(plural) is the NT way.) Pastors are ONLY for "feeding the sheep, not for being in charge. Everyone facing the "preacher" ... NOPE ... history says that in the synagogues they faced each other. In the Home church I attend, we sit in a Square ... everyone can see everyone. One final comment: One of the last "systematic" churches we went to was SO ORGANIZED that there was NO POSSIBLE WAY that the Holy Ghost could ever move in their "services" There was a plan and schedule and they had to follow it. And this church only had 200 - 250 on Sunday morning. The staff at this church consistently and constantly looked tired. (bags under their eyes) There was ALWAYS some activity going on ... I don't think the staff ever had time for "family". Thank God the LORD opened my eyes about these ridiculous traditions.

[@revolutionofordinaries]

Love this so much!

[@thecatalysm5658]

So much time spent rehearsing the music... I don't have to rehearse at all when I worship (proskuneo / shachah) in my prayer closet. Now I can eat breakfast with my wife and, sometimes, my daughter and her husband. What a blessing!

[@ruthiev82]

Yes!!!!! I knew a church exactly like that.

[@1Word2218]

The question I've thought about for a long time now is at what number do we cross over from a participative, engaged fellowship of believers to a consumerism-based organization. It's obvious that we can point at "mega" churches, but I've seen these same 12 things happen at congregations much smaller than what we think of as megachurches. Churches as small as 200, 100, or even 50 people, can fall for these same things when they have to pay for a building, preacher salary. Or start "programs" that need coordinators, administrators, etc. What does your experience suggest is the size that starts putting a congregation at risk?

[@revolutionofordinaries]

Once you need amplification for all to hear. Around 20. Now you end up with a stage, mics, etc

[@thecatalysm5658]

​@revolutionofordinaries Yep, amplification. It corrupts the natural state of interaction. When it is too many to maintain a conversation / discussion in a circle.

[@Charleston4Jesus]

I was in a MegaChurch for 10yrs but like most churches that grow over a certain number then you run into problems because intimacy suffers. So, how to keep people connected to one another. So the creation of small groups and programs galore. I will say the only way discipleship can happen is on a small group level. The megachurch I was in pushed small groups hard. That is how I was discipled in a small group setting even though I did not know I was being discipled at the time until later looking back. But I will say atleast the megachurch I was in there was only about 10% of the church in small groups so 90% was spectators. They did teach on the Priesthood of all believers but put in practice I did not see it much in the megachurch I was in. There is Pro's and Con's to the megachurch model. The Pro's is they usually have alot of resources available and ministry opportunities. You can find something to get involved with in a megachurch and you can even start a ministry under the covering of the church. You can bring an idea to the church leadership and they may say great idea we support you start it up. Some of the con's is many seeker-sensitive megachurches that they build the church around the professional stage show that they use the music to attract them in instead of building the church around the Word of God. The seeker sensitive messages are watered down to not offend that if your a new believer it may work for you in the milk stage but don't want to stay there. You won't get meat you will starve to death there and will stunt your spiritual growth. Another con is programs galore that they look to the program to disciple others but I went through many if you been through one you been through them all lol because they are very repetitive and say the same thing. Basicly the programs was designed to keep people in the church because your not going to get alot out of the Sunday services. But the programs were not discipleship programs it was basicly just another self-help program tagging Jesus on the end to Christianize it. But what I saw was you can literally spend years in these programs going from one program to the next keeping you busy that you should be a disciple by that time making other disciples. Everything seemed to be designed to keep you busy while the world outside is going to hell that needs Jesus.

[@revolutionofordinaries]

Love this info from your experience! Megachurches do have a lot of resources...but imagine how much more resources we would have if all of that money was going straight to needs rather than buildings, budgets, and salaries!

[@Charleston4Jesus]

@@revolutionofordinaries Yea I ment to put that in there but my comment was already getting to long. lol I had a break down of where the money went in the megachurch I was in and yea most of the money does go into those things you mentioned with very little left for ministry purposes which is what I was frustrated about. Also most of the growth in the megachurch is not new converts or new believers its just transitioning believers out of one church into the big megachurch. I am not saying all megachurches are the same as I have been in healthy megachurches and unhealthy megachurches. The one I was in was unhealthy. It wasn't all bad as there was some good parts that they had like off shoot ministries during the week and on weekends. They had healing ministries and things like that if you wanted to go deeper. The megachurch I was in was charismatic just you did not see alot of the gifts practiced in church service like you might would see in an Assembly of God church. But they had off shoot ministries that definitely went in the Pentecostal direction which I am charismatic. I had to learn to get along though for the sake of the Kingdom. I was in a leadership position (non-pay) in that church I held some bitterness in my heart that years later the Lord spoke to me I need to go make things right. I hated holding that bitteness so I made an appointment with the Pastors and got some things off my chest and made things right. We reconciled. I felt so relieved so I could move on without any resentment. That is so very important to do when you leave a church so you do not carry that bitterness with you. I also think Pastors should listen to its congregants because that megachurch I was in was evangelical but was going in the direction of liberal theology that was a big concern to me. I let it be known whether they liked it or not. The way I keep from holding that bitterness in my heart is while I know the structure and system is wrong but I tell myself maybe some churches are just ment for new believers to get that start but you do not want to stay there for years like I did that can stunt your growth. My Spirit became restless I knew I had to get out of there for my own spiritual health. Its hard leaving friends and people you have done ministry with for years and they do not understand. But years later after I left many have come to me and now understand as they left also. Just I saw it earlier than they did where this is headed.

[@joyfultrails]

I do videography/editing/video production for a living. I've been hired as a free-lance camera operator several times by a local mega-church (that isn't as mega as they'd like for you to believe...but whatever). Don't even get me started on the things I saw and heard and experienced there. I hate celebrity pastor/megachurch culture.

[@revolutionofordinaries]

Oh man. I can only imagine!

[@thecatalysm5658]

This is good stuff! Sermons are Sophistry. Sophistry complicates faith.

[@revolutionofordinaries]

I like that!

[@merrylstreak7118]

Mega churches are so far from the original plan in the book of Acts.

[@BubaRedneck]

I see 7 of the 12 in the congregation I attend

[@paul-hn7ck]

YOU NAILED IT MATT.........WE NEED TO HEAR THE TRUTH SAID IN LOVE..........WE NEED IT...........PAUL JOHN IN OTTAWA ONTARIO CANADA.

[@cindylou31263]

Seen it all!

[@crazycatman5928]

Bible says to not even eat with a brother who’s a fornicator. In mega churches you don’t know who is and who isn’t. Am I wrong in my interpretation of that scripture and my dislike for mega churches?

[@revolutionofordinaries]

The early churches were gatherings of around 20 in a home...they knew what was going on. Today you can be a spectator and completely anonymous.

[@crazycatman5928]

@@revolutionofordinaries yep. I miss the old house services. Not a fan of the mega churches at all. Too many gimmicks/emotional music/men in tight jeans/and no exegesis of the holy text.

[@Servant44]

🙏 To preach Repentance and Remission of sins among All nations Luke 24:47 KJV and that [repentance] and [remission of sins] should be [preached] in his name among [all nations,] beginning at Jerusalem. - Sincere turn from the (practice) of (sin) or (willful sin) or (All) will perish Luke 13:3 KJV I tell you, [Nay:] but, except [ye repent,] ye shall [all] [likewise] [perish.] - Believe for your faith will save you, for believing leads to (pardon of sins) to not (die) in (sin) John 8:24 KJV I said therefore unto you, that [ye shall die] in your sins: for [if ye believe not] that I am he, ye shall [die] in your [sins.] - Receive forgiveness of sins when we are converted, + multiple ways for remission of sins, (pardon of sins) Acts 10:43 KJV To him give all the prophets witness, that through his [name] [whosoever believeth] [in him] shall [receive] [remission of sins.] - Love God and love thy neighbor as thyself, for love will (cover) all sins, (pardon of sins) Proverbs 10:12 KJV Hatred stirreth up strifes: but [love] [covereth] [all] [sins.] ‭‭Luke‬ ‭7:47‬ ‭KJV‬‬ Wherefore I say unto thee, [Her sins,] which [are many,] [are forgiven;] for [she loved much:] but to whom [little is forgiven,] the same [loveth little.] - Have frevernt (love) among (the brethren) and (the people) for frevernt (love,) giving, having conpassion shall (cover) the multitude of sins, (pardon of sins) 1 Peter 4:8 KJV And above all things have fervent [charity] [among yourselves:] for [charity] shall [cover] the [multitude of sins.] - Preaching and (converting the sinner) from the error of his way will (hide) a multitude of sins, (pardon of sins) James 5:20 KJV Let him know, that he which [converteth] the sinner from the [error of his way] shall [save a soul] from [death,] and shall [hide] a [multitude of sins.] - Confession of sin, confess your sins for the forgiveness of sins, (pardon of sins) 1 John 1:9 KJV If we [confess] our sins, he is faithful and just to [forgive] us [our sins,] and to [cleanse us] from all [unrighteousness.] - (Water baptism) for the (remission of sins), remission/pardon/forgiveness of sins Acts 2:38 KJV Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be [baptized] every one of you in the [name] of [Jesus Christ] for the [remission of sins,] and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. - To give knowledge of salvation to all by the (remission) of our (sins), (pardon of sins) Luke 1:77 KJV To give [knowledge] of [salvation] unto his people [by] the [remission] of their [sins,] - Those (predestined), will die in (0 sin,) all sins were pardoned through (remission of sins) ‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:13‬ ‭KJV‬‬ [13] But he that shall [endure] unto [the end,] the same [shall be saved.]

[@revolutionofordinaries]

Thanks for leaving a comment and watching!

[@TheCrossColemanTX]

💙 Thanks exactly why we don’t want to be a mega church.

[@revolutionofordinaries]

Appreciate you leaving a comment!

[@jamesstrohl2016]

Jesus gave one command when it came to worshipping God. That is to worship God in spirit and Truth. Simply translated and that is, worship God in purity, and through the acceptance of Christ (Truth) and obeying His commands for salvation. So, it doesn't matter what size the Church is.

[@revolutionofordinaries]

There is nothing inherently wrong with big or small. However, each size comes with his own set of challenges. And it’s important to be aware of the challenges that are present in the size of the church that you attend.

[@jamesstrohl2016]

@@revolutionofordinaries Here is what the problem is. Not many follow what is written in the Book of James. It doesn't matter the size of the Church. It is my opinion though, that a church, that becomes a Mega Church is usually dependent upon the Preacher, and or the stage show.

[@paul-hn7ck]

TH IS COMMENT BELOW......HITS IT ON THE NAIL........THE WORD SAYS 2 OR 3 ARE GATHERED IN MY NAME.......THE FELLOW BELOW SAYS HE FELT AND EXPERIENCED CLOSENESS TO HOLY SPRIIT.......JUST OPENED THE WORD WITH A FEW AND JUST HAD FELLOWSHIP IN THE LORD AND WAS A GREAT TIME OF GROWING.............2 OR 3..THAT IS NOT A LOT.BUT ONE THING WE KNOW THEY WILL CONFESS WITH FEW ........WHEN A LARGE CROWD WILL NOT CONFESS........AND THIS IS WHATS ITS ALL ABOUT SINCE WE ARE SINNERS IN A FAST DRIVE BY CHURCH SET UP......ITS NOT BIBLE AND THE HOLY SPRIT WILL NOT BLESS THAT FAKE CHRISTIIANTY............CHURCHED IN PEWS...........THIS HAS TO STOP...THE HOLY SPIRIT IS GRIEVED. PAUL JOHN OTTAWA ONTARIO CANADA...........WHERE THE SPIRIT OF THE LORD IS THERE IS LIBERTY...NOT BONDAGE OR STRONGHOLDS.......HMMMMM

[@JJ-dc7tt]

You are right about the mega church. But the so called home church will have just as many because so far I don't think you know what the church is, or what her work is. Hopefully you will learn. You are avoiding all the primary issue, which is imparting Christ to sinners by means of the Word of God and the Sacraments. You all talk about Jesus perhaps, but that is not preaching the gospel.

[@revolutionofordinaries]

Here is the deal...you base a conclusion of what I am about based on one out of 500+ videos. You can't cover every topic on one video. One video is on one topic, not all topics. So I suggest you not form conclusions based on what is not said when that wasn't the point of the video. Take care!