Is Naoto Shirogane Trans? | Missed Conceptions

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#Persona4 #NaotoShirogane #JUNE5

[@dime-a-thousand8002]

Saying Naoto is trans is like saying Mulan is trans.

[@asura7915]

@@Orionhound we dont know about yamato because we dont know much abou her,but if she isnt i can already predict the shitstorm

[@loganboyd6609]

@@asura7915 anybody arguing with Ichiro oda I laugh at

[@loganboyd6609]

That's like saying Naruto is definitive gay

[@FairyHeartGaming]

It’s sad because I love Mulan.

[@Byzantine_Orthodox_Christian]

@@flaretheblaire A female hiding their gender in order to participate in a male dominated field without being discriminated against? The only difference is Naoto rejected her femininity her entire life but eventually accepts it

[@carriebrute3627]

Naoto reminds me to chihiro fujisaki from danganronpa , both characters are cisgender that like to show their gender identity in a way that is more traditionally of the other gender , when what they represent is that clothes and actitudes don’t have a gender and their gender identity doesn’t get defined by what they like to appear as , both were obligated to present themselves in the sex to protect themselves from a hostile place in naotos case the detective field to show that a woman can be a detective no matter what others think and fujisaki to protect himself from bullies that saw him as being “too femenine” to be a boy , saying that they are trans erase their struggles and more importantly their sexual identity

[@FairyHeartGaming]

Dang it grandpa is a good game, but a horrible fanbase. Trust me, I’m a fan of the series.

[@carriebrute3627]

@@FairyHeartGaming agreed , my favorite character is saionji and the one that I hate the most Is Sonia so I’ve experienced in first hand how toxic it is but the characters are great , Celeste , mondo , kuzuryu, owari , mioda , yumeno, gokuhara, etc

[@FlynynFennel]

People mainly only talk about the toxic fans in the danganronpa fandom there is much more non-toxic than toxic but all they focus on is the toxic fans some people just think everyone in the fandom is toxic this also happens in the gatcha community back to my point the danganronpa fans are rather disgusted at the toxic people it's not the fandom as a whole but you may think as you wish just consider that not everyone is toxic in the danganronpa fandom sorry this is a long comment

[@FlynynFennel]

Side note I misinterpreted what the 2 comments actually meant

[@Aether-azurr]

exactly, having a complex gender expression doesn't automatically mean that you're trans.

[@0rriAndroid]

There's also the fact that she comes from a family of great detectives, all of which were male. Which further pushed her to presenting herself as a man to others.

[@HellNutcase]

Wasn't her mother a detective too? Naoto told that they both were detectives.

[@0rriAndroid]

@@HellNutcase Was she? It's been quite a long while. I don't remember that.

[@GinraiPrime666]

@@HellNutcase Considering the Megaten series as a whole has abit of a long-running theme of detectives that come from a family of them, most likely thats what it is. Its been awhile since I played P4 myself but since we have the Kuzunoha Detective Agency be brought up in Devil Summoner and of course in Persona 2, more than likely Naoto's mother being a former detective and her wanting to carry that on is a nod to this theme in the series.

[@lunamariamiraestels7408]

Naoto's mother was a detective along her husband. Naoto says this during her persona awakening after fighting Shadow Naoto, if you want to rewatch it :)

[@keeysOST]

I'm honestly questioning if people actually played the game. Honestly I think her coming to terms with being female, despite questioning herself makes her a great female character role model. Kanji for me was a character that hit close to home for me because I experienced similar things.

[@Snipfragueur]

The whole point of her arc is to come to terms with her feminity... Did people miss that ??

[@The4thSnake]

Yes.

[@akiradkcn]

It basically was the old version of the meme "dont mess with us persona5 fans, we never played persona5" A bunch of ppl who didnt even played the game read a bit about the character, and started inventing things to push their agenda on others

[@megamike15]

persona 4 isnt xenogears it's not some deep complex game. it's very upfront about what its trying to say and it's clear it's examining common anime character types.

[@SiRenfield]

@@megamike15Yeah I feel like some people forget that Persona (despite most of its games being rated M in the US) is basically a YA franchise for lack of a better word, like they constantly feel the need to spell out what it’s themes are to a sometimes frustrating degree

[@abadidea5984]

I think the most illogical step of the entire process of this misconception isn't the belief of the headcanon (I'm with Snake on this; headcanon is harmless), it's when that belief then translates back into a criticism of the original work because it doesn't fit the mold of what the headcanon states. If people want to keep believing that Naoto is trans, I can't stop them; but I won't accept accusations that Persona 4 is a "transphobic" story because it was never INTENDED to be that way. It's as true with Naoto as it is with the entirety of P5.

[@Deadhound141]

I had a small arguement with a guy on i can't remember whether it was reddit or 9gag but the moment I threw out my side of the arguement. He or she stop replying entirely. I even threw out the same kanji is more likely to be gay than naoto being trans.

I agree with you, as a JoJo fan I've experienced this before with Stone Ocean. There is this character named Narciso Anasui, who was first introduced as a female but the rest of his appearances are as a male. The author has specified that he did this because he wanted to experiment with androgynous characters, but a lot of people don't seem to understand it. Between a lot of fans there is this shared headcanon (Which btw I don't support) that Narciso used a power he has to make himself appear as a woman so he could enter the place where the protag is for most of the part (SO takes place mostly in a female prison). As a headcanon I agree is harmless, but a lot of people think that it is not a headcanon but a real thing.

[@Joker3180Z]

Not even not intended just not Transphobic at alll

[@alexmercer6263]

I think it would genuinely be more transphobic to imply this character is a trans man more than it would be to argue that she isn't. I'm a transgender man because i plainly feel I am a man. That's just what I am. That's it. it has nothing to do with how women are treated in society or feeling like I have to become a man to be taken seriously. We don't need any more people implying that transgender men are actually women who just hate themselves. ATLUS itself can do better in regards to avoiding transphobic implications in their games definitely, but I rather help a female character realize it's ok to be a woman instead of... going through something where it sounds like I'm trying to conversion therapy someone?

[@alexmercer6263]

Later addition since I'm off work: I find the trans woman interpretation a lot more interesting, and a significantly lesser problem for reasons already stated in the video. And I want to point out literally any other man in the cast could be trans man and it wouldn't necessarily go against the game's story for them, so why not make headcanons for them? Why make that headcanon for the one character who CAN'T be a trans man?

[@peach-o9308]

He has gender dysphoria and the "life ruining" thing was an operation. He says he will never be a man and that's the main reason he excepted being a woman. No hate but this isn't right, this isn't a Herald of Revia or a Dipper thing. He is so clearly a trans man. The thing that is the worst however are all the terf talking points. That he is a trans man to escape sexism. No, sexism doesn't give you gender dysphoria, it doesn't make you want to cover your body in the hot spring. He literally says "I wish I was born a man".

[@alexmercer6263]

@@peach-o9308 I understand what you're saying, but this ONLY becomes a TERF talking point if you take "naoto has dysphoria" as gospel - which is the point of assertion in the video. One that you are welcome to debate, mind you. But to be clear, the original video is simply arguing that Naoto is not someone experiencing ftm dysphoria but rather a woman with internalized misogyny - and even makes a clear distinction between the two. (And besides, there's more reasons to cover your body in the hot spring other than dysphoria.) You might have just misinterpreted what The4thSnake said in that regard. At any rate, this reply could have just been directed to the video, not to me. Because it has nothing to do with what I said. I obviously know that sexism doesn't give you dysphoria. Even I CLEARLY SAID in my original comment that I am a trans man because I'm a man, not because I look down on women or that I feel like I have to escape sexism. Please do not mistake me for a TERF. I also really don't know what you mean by a "Herald of Revia or a Dipper thing" , I'm not familiar with that comparison.

[@peach-o9308]

@@alexmercer6263 Basically people in the gravity falls fandom and the Witcher fandom like to view the characters as trans even though their not. Honestly yeah, though the fact that Naoto went "I will never be a real man their for I am a woman" is one of the main reasons I believe their trans. (I hope your fine with me using they to talk about said issue since we have different ideas on there gender). Also not just gospel but more the dialogue hints on how they trained their voice to be more masc, change them sleves to make their partner happy and not because they wanted too (Example in the Christmas event they wear a skirt specifically if you ask them to be more fem while speaking), them viewing themselves all in all as a man until main character "saves her" even in manga arcs we see them as a tomboy as a child. Again "I will never be a real man their for I am a woman" that just seems like denial.

[@alexmercer6263]

@@peach-o9308 I mean I don't see the issue with headcanoning any given character as trans. But anyway, I also said in the end of my original comment that I think ATLUS should avoid potentially transphobic plot elements in the future. And to repeat, I prefer to see this character as not necessarily ftm, precisely because the player is enticed to convince them that they're a woman. That would just be wrong to me if Naoto truly is meant to be male. It retroactively becomes more transphobic to have to tell a presumably ftm character to be a woman and this is presented as the "correct choice" in the story. That's just plain worse

[@khogamevietsub]

Ever since I was a kid, I've always think that Naoto want to be male because in Japan society (and especially the police force), male worker get more respect by default

[@returnedtomonkey8886]

Congrats. You have human inteligence.

[@lssjgaming1599]

As a trams women myself I’m like so confused as to why this whole thing is a big controversy from people misinterpreting the story. A lot of people do also not realize that in Japan sexism in the workplace is such a big issue and I just wish more people would understand this as it’s integral to understand at least a bit of the culture of the original authors and the political issues to properly understand what they are criticizing

[@freezatheemperorofmischief8231]

I just wanted to say that it´s very uplifting for me whenever a queer person speaks up for P4. Even though I am cis(?) it is one of the most impactful games I have ever played with Naoto and Kanji being some of my favourite characters ever. So to see the discourse surrounding them swallow basically any discussion about the game as "that piece of trash by good ol´queerphobic Atlus" where both sides are just so tired of hearing the same arguments over and over again is so exhausting and demoralizing. There are 100% things I would change about some bad scenes and Atlus doesn´t exactly have the best track record in portraying explicitly queer characters positively but I just think there are so many other extremely valuable things to talk about. Like, someone gets to Shadow Kanji or Naoto, gets pissed off by taking the scene at face value, goes to social media and has their impression solidified by commenters who know the rest of the game saying it´s exactly what it looks like rinse and repeat. What gets to me is how this absolute demand for Kanji and Naoto to be one thing and one thing only because of perceived behaviour is what caused their internal struggles to form in the first place. I know I don´t have any authority in this but I got to observe often how when a story features queer or queer adjacent themes the value of said story is then based on whether it represents queer people positively or follows an explicitly queer narrative (good) or not (bad and hateful). I get why so many people resort to that line of thinking especially with how much rarer gay or trans themes were 15 years ago but I also feel like it is strangely binary thinking? Like the rest of Kanji´s and Naoto´s characters are often stamped as worthless because they don´t follow the explicitly queer path and I think that puts discussions in general into way smaller boxes that they need to be. Bridget Guilty Gear is a similar case where I absolutely support her being trans but also don´t agree with the communities down right villainification of people who could relate to her more before Strive. If you have read all of this I want to thank you for enduring this thoughts vomit and wish you all the best!

[@insertnamehere1398]

And this isn’t the only time something like this has happened in a video game.jsut. Like it

[@AnInkStick]

Because that would require people to get their head out of their asses and think beyond the scope of their tiny worldview and acknowledge that there’s such a thing as other cultures and other values.

[@JohnDoe______]

I didn’t even realize people argued it that the Twitter guy is the first one

[@akiradkcn]

It is a very old twitter drama

[@Random30276]

Glad someone finally said it

[@siditururu6500]

sad that this shit even has to be said

[@saloz9483]

It's funny you brought up kanji as you were talking about this since I immediately thought of people thinking kanji is gay. He just was interested and like doing certain things that usually fit the gender role of a women in the eyes of society but was afraid to show it off and wanted to hide it as much as he could. Stuff like this tends to really effect kids as they go through school since if you were a boy that showed any interest in liking anything that was looked as feminine you would be made fun of a lot. I remember being a kid and being embarrassed to admit I liked sailor moon since it is seen as a show aimed at girls. I'm pretty sure this happens to females as well with liking some boy stuff growing up.

[@carriebrute3627]

His character and naotos character are all about how gender and sexuality is not defined by what you like , rather than for what you are , I great to see it because same I love sailor moon as a kid even still do , that doesn’t make me or you less man than literally everyone else

[@27Bayleefs]

@@carriebrute3627 Honestly I don't think Sexuality has anything to do with it. Kanji was about liking feminine hobbies despite his image, and longing to be accepted, Naoto was about discrimination in the workforce. I feel both of them, rather than being gay or trans, was more about being accepted for who they are, accepting themselves and learning to love who they are.

[@carriebrute3627]

@@27Bayleefs i mean kanji’s chapter literally has his shadow version calling him a queer , he’s at least bisexual but i was talking more about how despite their appearances they both can enjoy whatever they like without a stupid repercussions of “that’s for girls” or “that’s for boys”

[@27Bayleefs]

@@carriebrute3627 See the shadows are just extreme personifications of a persons emotions. It doesn't act that way because that's who he is, but because that is how he as well as others see him. Kanji himself realizes this by saying "It's not a matter of guys or chicks, I'm just scared shitless of being rejected" so No it has nothing to do with actual sexuality. The shadow was more so meant to symbolize people mocking him for his hobbies and how he has more feminine interests. also the shadow didn't call him a queer, he was stating what others have called him and said about him.

[@carriebrute3627]

@@27Bayleefs well true the shadow is an exaggerated version of the character but still the point is not getting refuted because kanji in his context as a character can be bisexual that’s why you can interprétate his “not about chicks or guys”

[@realfromtherealreality4148]

I don't know about everyone else here, but I have to say one of the things that actually piss me off, even if I can understand why one would do it, is self-projection through a character. I think it's normal that everyone has a different perception about a character, but every time I've seen someone claim Naoto is trans, or other stuff similar to this, they would usually claim it as if it was written and intended that way by the author. As if it was canon. While I think it's fine for example in fanfiction, since you can basically do and explore anything in them, it shouldn't really grow out of it if the author doesn't green-light that idea. I'm not trying to insult or denigrate anyone here, but no one should really seek self-validation and impose their view on a character just to feel better about themselves/right in their opinions. Love yourself and love the work of fiction the authors create, but don't mix reality and fiction in an act of self-preservation, it never ends well if done repeatedly. And don't purposefully ignore an author's work and message to slap your own onto it, because it's disrespectful to what they were trying to accomplish with their characters, like with Naoto. I hope everyone who read this comment will have a wonderful life. (Also Naoto x Kanji is an absolute yes and the reason why I could never get into a relationship with Naoto.)

[@nassiemartinez4399]

Gotta remember most people who say that she’s trans probably never fully played the game. It’s a long, old game so people will take what they first hear as gospel

[@crimsoncross8823]

@@nassiemartinez4399 I agree, you would be surprised at the amount of people who don't fully play through games. Hell, I haven't beaten Yaldabaoth yet and I have had Persona 5 for about a year now lol

[@nassiemartinez4399]

@@crimsoncross8823 it’s weird to think people who are the age of the characters now where in diapers when the game first came out

[@misttermd6299]

Based opinion.

[@returnedtomonkey8886]

I self project on doom slayer. As a pissed off guy who kills everything he sees.

[@jalonshelton204]

As a relative newcomer to Persona & SMT in general, I genuinely did not think Naoto was trans; the game said that she was female and I just thought "alright," and proceeded to bust my ass to max out her Social Link.

[@jbbelenkokoro2673]

I always thought that Naoto and Kanji were more of analysis on how screwed up enforced gender roles are in Japan. Kanji’s sexuality was never stated so it would be disingenuous to assume he’s either gay or straight. I never thought Naoto was trans, but as a woman that did not fit the stereotypical role. If Persona 6 ever comes out, I would them to explore themes of sexuality, trans identity, and other LGBTQ+ themes as it can be a compelling narrative of done right and respectfully. Also, we had a gay romance in Persona in the past with Jun and Aigis. If people are interested, people should read the manga My Brother’s Husband. It delves into the views on LGBTQ+ community in Japan while comparing to a western country like Canada as the titular husband is from that country.

[@jbbelenkokoro2673]

This is coming from a person who is part of the LGBTQ+ community. So this type of subject makes me understand this more and hope for better LGBTQ+ rep in gaming and not constant projection which lead to toxicity in the community. Also, I like stories about female detectives so which is why Naoto is a fan favorite of mine.

[@carriebrute3627]

I read the manga it helped a lot I’m a gay man myself, and yeah honestly I agree that they are more social commentary in what a gender must fill in society which is stupid and the game knows it , tho even if I don’t believe they will get explored because then again the games never gave you a chance to date your same sex until now even in persona 5 strikers, I do believe some characters have the context that would make sense for them to be lgbt like yosuke or teddy

[@ramezhachicho1777]

... Or we COULD just have a game that isn't about gender identities and who you want to bang in place of an enjoyable plot and likeable characters. It's a wild theory I know.

[@freshlycannedwater]

When persona 6 comes out i will hang myself instantaneously if anything of the sort happened

[@RasenKamehamehaX100]

I definitely think a truly LGBTQ+/trans party member would be very fun to see.

[@BanchoGato]

Thank you. Don't know why certain influencers who claim to love the game keep pushing the trans identity on Naoto. It's not that she's a bad representation of LGBT themes, it's that those themes don't apply to her in the first place.

[@nicccccccccccc]

i always disagreed with the idea of naoto being trans due to the fact that shadows do not represent the true self. the main party shadows in persona 4 consistently are used to present an extreme solution to an underlying problem that the individual is experiencing. yukiko despises that she is being pushed into the role of future owner of the amagi inn yet she feels she can't do anything so her shadow is a princess in a castle begging for her knight to save her, kanji has a warped view of what it means to be a man and holds alot of resentment to the girls that mocked him for having feminine hobbies so his shadow is a gay man in a sauna, rise feels as she is disconnected to who she truly is as a person so her shadow embraces the most depraved aspects of being a celebrity in a strip club in order for people to notice her. all the main party shadows exemplify the most extreme solutions to their personal turmoil, so why wouldn't naoto's? naoto's whole arc is coming to the realization that just because she isn't what she invisions as the stereotypical detective it doesn't mean she isn't a competent detective. she learns to accept herself as both a woman and a detective.

[@axelwust9376]

I've come to more or less realize that Kanji wasn't a guy metaphor and Naoto wasn't a Trans metaphor early on, though I wasn't sure at first why. It really didn't click as it should, I felt like, and I am fairly non-traditional myself. Then I caught on what bothered me while thinking why people tended to tout as proof, their Shadows. What people forget is that Shadows aren't what you REALLY are, but what you are AFRAID about yourself, and that is different, cause that image is actually WARPED. Kanji's Shadow doesn't really reveal him as gay, just as Chie's doesn't show her into BDSM or Rise as an attention whore. It revealed his insecurity over the possibility of being gay, and him accepting that side is accepting his unusual interests and his feminine interests. Being gay or not is completely separate. Naoto always was a case of reversed cause and effect. The Shadow wasn't made from an underlying issue she had with her actions, those actions came once her Shadow manifested itself. Being Trans is more than just uncomfortability with your gender, it is a neurological issue that requires a change from assigned gender (neurological is not psychological, the latter means trauma, the former means actual brain structure got bucked up). But her issues appears wholly about her image as a detective, and not about her own happiness. And once that image issue gets cleared, she gives up on trying to pretend to be a man, instead using it to live her life as a Gender Nonconforming Woman. A Trans person wouldn't be happy with simply leaving themselves with the wrong body, whether or not they choose to go through with it. Honestly, always appreciate people pointing out what actually it is.

[@Sachsuke]

I never actually realized the shadows were supposed to be their warped fears and not a distorted image of their repressed thoughts and goddamn this makes way more sense.

[@axelwust9376]

@@Sachsuke A lot of Persona's abilities are based on Jung's idea of self. Your shadow is what you are trying to hide from people, but that's not what you truly are. Yosuke for example had his Shadow tell him he wanted his girlfriend to die just so he won't get bored. It's only true in a sense that actually doing something instead of wasting away in boring old town is preferable and his girlfriend being that gave him that needed push, but together, it misses the point. He wants to avenge her, first and foremost, the excitement is simply a symptom of growing depression over being stuck in that place. Apply same logic to most other characters, realize that Shadows is what will happen if they'll continue to repress their feelings and not address the core issues, and voila, you can explain Mitsuo Kubo.

[@ramezhachicho1777]

No she isn't anyone who thinks she's trans DEEPLY misunderstands what a trans person is. Naoto is just a little gender confused because she's denied her actual gender (female.) In an attempt to fit in with her profession. And that fucked with her head. And it did so precisely BECAUSE she's cis. Probably quite archetypally so underneath all the nuerosis. She's no more trans than Kanji is gay. And yes he ISN'T what he is is remarkably open minded and willing to explore himself. Might surprise some people to learn that homosexual fooling around is quite common even in those who end up figuring out they're straight. It's completely natural to move out of your comfort zone when you're still feeling out what you are. Of course she's going to keep being rather masculine it's a habit by now. But what no one wants to hear is that Naoto Shiragane was a run of the mill heterosexual female who's hang-up's just happened to revolve around her gender. And I really don't like people who say you make her 'weaker' by being more feminine. If it wasn't for the sexism she faced she never would have started trying to be masculine. She IS naturally feminine. And the suggestion that being that is somehow showing weakness is SHOCKINGLY sexist. And flies in the face of her story arc. In fact It would be closer to call her a reverse trans. Her problem isn't caused by being biologically female. It's caused by trying to act male when she's not. And how it makes her live a lie. Naoto may not serve as a bastion of trans inclusion in jrpg's But she does serve as a very welcome character in a game that's about accepting yourself for who you are, warts and all.

[@SiRenfield]

The “feminine = weakness” stuff especially floored me because in addition to being that kind of faux wokeness you expect from the toxic side of the discourse because even though she’s not a literal trans man in the text, the game still supports the idea that gender essentialism is bullshit because even after revealing her sex, she continues to have a masculine gender presentation while becoming more comfortable at the idea of openly expressing her identity as a woman. Even in the spin-off novels the only thing that changes is that she has longer hair. It is ironically very sexist and even transphobic to assume that it’s impossible for women can’t be masculine or likewise with men and femininity, and that’s just in terms of the gender binary! Personally in terms of my headcanons, I think Naoto might he non-binary but honestly that’s just me and unlike a good chunk of the fandom I don’t consider it gospel and then proceed to be an asshole about it

[@raimyonlinewarrior236]

Once again, you make a good valid video. Let’s hope people will learn from this.

[@pacperson]

Yeah I always thought the game was pretty clear with its message for Naoto, always just kinda assumed thos people didn’t play the game or finish her link.

[@GinraiPrime666]

You'll find alot of the time its people not actually playing the games, finishing the links or they've just read the wikis or only seen other's opinions on it. If more people genuinely put in the work to find out for themselves, instead of only relying on others for the information, things would probably be alot more smoother.

[@akiradkcn]

@@GinraiPrime666 ikr

[@brokemultitrash]

People who call Naoto trans and Kanji gay, are basically saying that unless you're a girly girl or a manly man, you're not fit to be your gender or your sexuality, defying their own claims about gender and sexuality norms. And that was literally what these characters' shadows were saying, so seems like some players weren't paying attention. Naoto and Kanji accepted themselves for who they actually are, a perfectly capable female detective and a straight man who just likes more feminine hobbies.

[@delsingray5923]

Not all gay guys are feminine, so no. I know the difference. Still gay.

[@Joker3180Z]

​@@delsingray5923 Kanji isn't gay and His Attraction to Naoto wasn't because of him being gay, He knew Naoto was female by simply looking at her, this is confirmed in Q2 go play the games

[@AnInkStick]

@@delsingray5923 you do realize he felt attraction and naoto to both before and after the reveal so that means he’s not gay….hes bi

[@MysteriousTomJenkins]

Yeah, its amazing how people so eager to have representation where somehow end up having harmful ideas about the things they want to be represented. They see a female character dressing up as a guy and decide that character is trans, ignoring any context. By this logic, all I have to do to be trans is put on some girl clothes...except no, that isn't all there is to being trans and is disrespectful to think. The game explains why Naoto dresses and acts like a boy, it has nothing to do with wanting to be a boy in the same way Mulan pretending to be a male soldier isn't because she wants to be a male but to protect her father. By just looking at the fact that they dress as males and want people to think of males and ignoring all the context that explains this, you are essentially stereotyping trans people as "People who dress up as the opposite sex". By this logic, Bugs Bunny is trans because all the times he tricks Elmer Fudd into thinking he's a girl to mess with him. The same can be said about Kanji, just thinking he's gay because he likes traditionally feminine things is stereotyping gay people, as if all gay people act the same so just acting in a way that doesn't match how someone of your gender would normally act means you have to be gay. Maybe instead it could just mean you are your own individual person and have your own likes and dislikes that aren't dictated by what is between your legs. It also bugs me with situations like this because these types of people are always so eager for representation and LGBT characters exist...but I always seem them hyper focusing on straight cis characters and wanting, if not demanding they be changed gay. I can think of two My Hero Academia characters that are trans, a Doom Patrol character that is trans and I think Neil Gaiman's Sandman also has some trans characters and there is definitely a good amount of lesbians, gays and bisexual characters in fiction in both anime, cartoons and comics. But I don't see these people talking about them. They want Spider-Man to be trans, they want Captain America to be gay, for all this talk of wanting to be represented, they sure don't seem to care when they are actually represented. I have seen more people talk about MCU Spider-Man being trans or Captain America being gay with Bucky then Marvel's canonically gay characters, do you actually want representation or do you just want to appropriate what is popular?

[@carriebrute3627]

At this point us just wanting a character that is actually a character the reason people want those characters to be *insert gender identity or sexuality * is because the ones that are actually that are normally such minor characters or that bring little to nothing to the table , for example in the comics starlord is bisexual but they don’t show that in the movies , most likely never will , by putting it into more popular characters is hard for them to ignore and actually make real representation in stead of just saying “oh yea this character was gay all along forget he made out with this hot chick for a haft a movie , we are so inclusive“ , representation is hard to do , there’s a very thin line when it comes to tokenism or false representation to actually having a character that being that sexuality or gender identity is part of what they are not all of who they are , and it would make sense in the context of the series to actually see those characters like that for example naruto where his whole ark revolves around sasuke yet they can’t be together because this nothing character (hinata that her whole ark revolves around naruto even her *i must be strong for him*) is more important than an actual relationship he’s build with sasuke and yeah two male characters can be like brothers and not like each other like shikamaru and naruto who in the context are best friends unlike sasuke and naruto who where never big friends to begin with until the last parts of the show after his redemption ark , some times making those characters lgbt makes more sense than the actual context of the series and is baffling to think that is just for representation when sometimes it helps the characters to get more defined , that’s the thin line I was talking about

[@MysteriousTomJenkins]

@@carriebrute3627 If a character wasn't meant to be LGBT like Naoto then don't make them lgbt. Also for the thing about minor characters, they'd get more attention if people showed them some love but the people who want to see, for example, trans characters, seem to ignore the ones that actually exist to head canon a cis character as trans, usually using harmful stereotypes to justify this ironically enough. Also, Starlord being bisexual is a very recent thing, and the change seems to be made solely to spite Chris Pratt because people think he's homophobic for some reason. The reason he hasn't shown this in the movies is because it wasn't a thing until recently (and Disney wouldn't make a main character gay or bisexual because they want to appeal to China).

[@carriebrute3627]

@@MysteriousTomJenkins how is a character not meant for lgbt ? Is it like a weird code of only Thais characters can be straight and only this characters can be gay ? That’s stupid , I do agree that even if making her trans will erase part of her character and ark , I don’t understand how , and about the representation of characters thy exist now , ok so ?you are agreeing with my point those characters are so minor they don’t matter sometimes even only having a name and that’s it , that’s the thing why people want some characters to be something, I agree that making naoto of all people trans would be stupid like making buttercup a lesbian or capitain America a man of the 50’s the most homophobic era of America is just dumb , and the reason people hate Pratt is because he’s a misogynistic asshole that goes into a Churtch where conversion therapy or torture as it should be called

[@KeyBladeMaster-Dan]

I don't know much about Persona but I have seen something just like this I remember on a post on a fan page I follow people were trying to claim that Mulan was objectively a trans character completely misunderstanding the plot of her film and character and being incredibly vile and toxic to anyone who disagrees. There's NOTHING wrong with trans characters like Snake said if you think there is kindly piss off but just don't project that onto characters that aren't and then start being vile when you're corrected

[@dime-a-thousand8002]

I have seen a some characters be called trans with the smallest bits of 'evidences' like Buttercup from PowerPuff Girls for being a tomboy, or Danny Phantom for reason that are taken super out of contexts. Personally I don't care if someone is trans or not as long as there decent characters.

[@saraero]

what ever happened to tomboys and gender nonconforming women? not being a feminine girl doesn't make you any less of a woman

[@yamzeita6817]

As someone of the LGBT Community, it's so dumb that some people are trying to turn a character who clearly isn't trans into one cannonically because it's basically like telling someone trans to be their sex, except UNO reverse for this situation. Either way it's messed up trying to turn something or someone meant as one thing into another thing. Because Naoto's story is still a good story for women going through Naoto's situation of some sort. If ever needed Atlus can always make a Trans Male someday in a new Persona/Atlus IP

[@chongwillson972]

@Yam Zeita although atlus has written a homosexual character before and he was written well and even allowed you to have a gay relationship with him and that was released in the 90's

[@DrakeVagabond]

I'll be honest, I used to think Naoto was trans and Kanji was gay when I was younger. But, really didn't think about it until way later that the information at hand didn't support any of that. And I was the asshole for pointing that out apparently. Great video. Hope you don't get railed to hard on this spicy one.

[@jbbelenkokoro2673]

As a trans woman coming out recently, I have to agree with you on this. I think people should read the scene before making assumptions. I think that was the point of Persona 4 in general.

[@gamefreakDX]

The thing that angers me the most is that in our modern climate, it sounds like the concept of crossdressing and stuff similar is automatically put as transgender-ism and it's just like they are not the damn same!

[@saoisbad3158]

Ngl. Video just got posted in a group chat I’m in and I came in with my own assumptions of what it’s about and came here with the intent of talking about the game nearly telling you outright she isn’t trans, and then I actually watched the video. Didn’t even think about the viewpoint you said your friend shared, or why Kanji and Naoto make a cute couple. Goes to show how things can progress when people actually listen. Got a sub outta me.

[@Dinker27]

Weirdly enough, I got the impression that Naoto was the Sailor Uranus of the group. They take their duties seriously, probably to the point of putting it above their own health and social bonds. There's an air of mystery around them, and to some degree (one more than the other), and they both tend to be somewhat serious with a bit of goofiness thrown in when they can relax. I think they also share something of a strategist role for their group as well, though Haruka is more of a warrior. Haruka is pretty self-assured with both her masculine and feminine qualities, however. They also have a similar color scheme with the blue and yellow, but that's completely superficial. The themes around them are different, certainly, but Naoto definitely could have used a "big sister" to help her with her problems. Fiction is srys bznis. You know how it is sometimes. ....And now, I think might brain up a Persona/Sailor Moon crossfic. Thanks, Snake. 🤣 And on Yosuke... I know a lot of people don't like Yosuke for how he treats Kanji in the beginning, but considering the cut content, I think Yosuke could have been for the people who project but end up realizing "o shit it me" when they do some self-reflection--if they ever get to that point. I wish the rabbid fans weren't so hostile about that being reflected in fiction, because that happens all the time in real life.

[@CobaltTheCrusader]

I'm reminded of when Brianna Wu argued that Samus Aran is trans and said "If we don't get representation then we'll just take it" or something along those lines. I'm paraphrasing. It's really sad when you see someone who's very clearly a total Narcissist who projects their identity onto other characters because they refuse to imagine a world that they're not apart of. They have to demand and assert that a character they had no hand in creating is essentially them in every way, shape, and form and when countered with evidence to the contrary they'll just resort to calling you some kind of ist or a phobe. It's far easier for a narcissist to imagine a world where they're the victim and right about everything than for them to even come close to admitting that they've made a mistake.

[@actualgoblin]

Projecting yourself onto characters isn't narcissistic at all! It's a common method people use to relate to others. I think everyone projects themself onto the fictional characters they care about, and if your gender identity is important to you- as is often the case for trans people considering how much shit they have to go through in order to live a normal life- then it makes sense to project that part of your identity onto characters you like and/or can relate to. The narcissistic part would be acting as if your projections were a reality and that everybody else must perceive those characters the exact same way you perceive them.

[@CobaltTheCrusader]

@@actualgoblin There's a difference between a narcissist projecting their identity onto a character and someone sympathizing enough with a character to see some of themselves in them. A projection isn't "putting yourself in the character's shoes" it's when you assume their worldview, opinions, and beliefs are the same as your own. Projection is a narcissistic thing to do because it's you forcing your beliefs onto a fictional character you may have some passing resemblance or understanding of and assuming this to be true and accurate to the story. They will also get offended when countered with evidence to the contrary because to them you're not criticizing their interpretation of the story, you're criticizing them. And when you project yourself onto said character with something as sensitive as your gender identity then it's very easy for them to mentally justify calling any who disagree with them a bigot. It's not about placing yourself into the fictional world through a character that you like, it's about them taking a character, claiming it to be "literally them" and attacking anyone who disagrees with accusations of bigotry and getting a plethora of other narcissists to agree with them. Or a plethora of people unfamiliar with the source material to rally behind them under the guise of trans rights or something along those lines. A similar thing happens for Pucci in Jojo's Bizarre Adventure and another youtuber named Hamon Beat gets lambasted for pointing out, very correctly, that Pucci isn't black. He's olive skinned by the creator's admission and is Cillian Italian. But people who look at the character's dark skin, assume he is black, ignore established lore and continuity, get other people who ignore or don't know about established continuity to call anyone who points out his actual ethnicity a racist. It all comes down to this modern obsession with representation in media. People don't want to be told stories about interesting characters. They want to see stories where *they* are the main character and that is very narcissistic. The complete inability to relate to someone who is not you.

[@actualgoblin]

@@CobaltTheCrusader It's clearly not about "being unable to relate to characters who are different from you" when most of the people who shame others for disagreeing with these headcanons *don't belong to those minority groups to begin with.*

[@27Bayleefs]

@@actualgoblin I don't have to *Belong to the minority to disagree with their opinion on a character* The simple truth is that Naoto is a woman, who identifies as a woman and even admits she is a woman. Her arc was NEVER about LGBT issues neither was Kanji. Both of their arcs were about acceptance of who they are, Kanji accepting he enjoys feminine hobbies, and Naoto realizing she don't need to act like a man to be a great detective. Both also offered insight on certain aspects in Japan like the male dominated work force and so on You identify with her cool. You feel sympathy for her and relate to her cool. But I draw the line at the self entitled asses going around telling people How Naoto or Kanji should have been.

[@actualgoblin]

@@27Bayleefs I agree 100%, I even made a comment earlier about how people misinterpret naoto's character arc and in kanji's case, ignore the fact that his sexuality was intentionally left ambiguous because it's not actually relevant to his character arc. You... didn't think I was trying to argue otherwise did you? edit: made a typo desu

[@RVMan985]

Let's not forget that Naoto literally put on a girls school uniform in the Christmas date with the protagonist and it ends up being and equipable item in Golden. Thanks for making this video, 4th Snake. Now if only Resetera gets the hint.

[@overlordzetta7410]

the Yin and yang symbols are white male with a black centre and black female with a white centre each of the other has a spot of the other in each Nato and Kanji respent this age old asian peice of phillosphy there not trans they have aspects of the other gender in them that's why there drawn to each other they come toghter in this understanding it's nothing to do with wanting to change but be expeted and it's easy to expect someone when there going though the same issues.

[@whiffunderscore703]

I can't help thinking of Leo in tekken and their whole weird Gender scenario. Feels like Bandai Namco is just fucking around with this notion just to give the character intrigue when it isn't there normally.

[@StarDragonJP]

Well Leo was originally shown as a women born as Eleonor that may have been ftm trans, but then later they changed Leo's gender to be ambiguous. So I think it's that people still consider Leo to be trans even though Tekken changed their stance. And either way there's no confirmation one way or the other as to if Leo really is trans as far as I know.

[@Kaius.]

leo's gender discussion is a different thing entirely, harada wanted to make a character that people could identify with regardless of their gender, so he made a character who has no defined gender and usually says himself that "it's not about gender" when asked about his stance on the topic. i could get behind the trans man theory, especially since there's actually a fair bit of subtle detailing with leo's presentation and marketing to support it, but in the respect of the creator's intent, i try not to weigh in too much on it. leo is leo, we love that for them.

[@anthonylugo4626]

Naoto identifies as female. I don’t understand how people can talk about identity and ignore that she says she is a woman.

[@celestialangel666]

I always thought Kanji and Naoto were cute in the “detective and enforcer” trope. Like Naoto is the cool, calm detective and Kanji had currently tackled the baddie for saying something mean to them both. Good video!

[@DarkLore1992]

I mean she even basically says she's proud of the body she was born with. That defies transgender code entirely. I do very much agree with people failing to understand the game LITERALLY telling these things. Its like the people arguing this stupid crap either didn't play the game or just skimmed all the dialogue.

[@thatperson1022]

you can be trans and not experience disphoria, not saying Naoto is, but you should eduacte yourself before you say shit like that

[@DarkLore1992]

@@thatperson1022 That's rather rude to tell someone to educate themselves. Plus I only just looked up what Disphoria means. I mean nobody knows every word in the world. I'm just saying that was very rude to say that.

[@thatperson1022]

@@DarkLore1992 Your assumption about trans people was rude, like wth is "transgender code" supposed to mean and how would you know anything about that lmao

[@nassiemartinez4399]

@@DarkLore1992 how is telling someone to educate themselves rude unless you’re just a person who’s allergic to reading or something (which you clearly aren’t). Trans people don’t have to hate their bodies to be trans you just have to be more comfortable in a gender that isn’t the one assigned to you at birth.

[@The4thSnake]

Let's all calm down here.

[@oni91119]

This is valid, its quite obvious naoto isn't trans. People need to stop making opinion fact, its shown in naoto's character arc that she dresses the way she is because of her job. People need to stop pushing further

[@Gigamokin]

Reach out to the truth, unless my headcanon is better.

[@xykros]

How does this guy not have more likes

[@amakusashooter]

Idk why a lot of the persona fanbase seem to absolutely despise the game they supposedly like

[@KeyBladeMaster-Dan]

I'm an outsider to this series never played a Persona game so my opinion doesn't mean much but personally I get the feeling that most of these people probably have never even touched a Persona game that's what it looks like to me

[@amakusashooter]

@@KeyBladeMaster-Dan yeah pretty much

[@SulfurBoride]

Can this common misconception also be chalked up to the meme of there being tons of Persona fans who haven't actually played the games themselves?

[@The4thSnake]

Yes.

[@diegoantoniofrias9309]

Yes

[@XBedos]

if im a fan of soethin and i havent played it yet i dont really talk about it until i play/watch it, but i am currently playing persona and say that ppl that say they are fans but havent got much information, should atleast try to confirm their accuation, anyone actually, even ppl who have played

[@G0DDL355]

Thank you for making this video. Someone had to say it and hopefully others will listen with a open mind and understand everything that was stated

[@daniellemurnett2534]

As a trans person myself, I agree that Naoto isn't trans in canon. And I swear in the name of That Man that this has nothing to do with the fact that I have a primal urge to make everything lesbian and RiseNao is a prime candidate. Ok, you caught me, it doesn't have *much* to do with that. But back to my point, I also gotta admit that P4, nay, Persona as a series has a bad habit of muddying the water when it comes to dealing with topics that have to do with sexuality and gender. I agree that Naoto isn't trans, but by making her main story arc revolve around the idea gender change they inevitably link her to that whole entire bucket of worms. I definitely like the reading that she's someone who *thinks* transitioning will help her, indeed an underrepresented group. That said, I'd hazard to call this _good_ representation solely because in a vacuum it can easily come off as Atlus saying that _all_ people who think they want a sex change are wrong. And without any trans representation in... As far as I'm aware the entire Person series, Naoto's arc I'd say *does* exist in a vacuum. Now I'm definitely not here to call Atlus a bunch of transphobes, because I have no real reason to believe that. What I'm saying is that it's important to actually give representation to all groups, so you don't end up with cases like Naoto, where people very well might incorrectly latch on to something that's close to what they want, but not quite on the money. Same with Kanji, to be honest. I read him as bi (pan but whatever) since he says something along the lines of "I don't care who I'm with so long as they don't abandon me" when talking to his shadow, implying that a genuine connection matters more to him than gender. This makes him even more ambiguous, so there's gonna be some huge discourse over it. If we had someone who's legitimately gay, ideally with similar struggles and thought process (of course Yosuke is prime candidate), we might be able to contrast Kanji's struggles with that to get an idea of both the correct and incorrect assumptions people might make about themselves. As opposed to *just* the latter, which if I was more cynical I'd read as outright queerphbic. Anyways, random rant over.

[@Jtboffroad]

Tbh one think that came to my mind when reading this is different setting, I’m assuming you live in the U.S where we push the same ideas you mentioned, to add more representation, however other countries don’t think this way, Japan is one of them. They are a country that is openly sexist and homophobic, over there sexism in the work place is a larger problem, thus wanting Naoto to pretend to be a man. To me it’s similar to how countries in the Middle East have women as a lower class of people than a man. Even though we could never understand that, that’s how their society is. So in situations like that it’s kind of hard to question their choices because they are no where near as open minded as people in the U.S are

[@daniellemurnett2534]

@@Jtboffroad I am not from the US. I am from Hungary. Now I don't know if you know much about this place but... Well it's honestly conservative *hell.* I'm not pushing the US cultural whatevers on other countries, I'm saying from an entirely personal perspective that representation and diversity in fiction is important.

[@smileytlj23]

"Why are you booing me? I'm right" - 4th Snake Probably

[@ebesonen]

To me Naoto was never a problem, I actually liked how she came to accept herself, it was one best moments in the game, this is how real life should work learn to accept ourselves and we'd be much better 😇

[@SiRenfield]

Like admittedly it’s obvious to see why Naoto is particularly popular for trans mascs (speaking as someone who is GNC myself [update: I recently came out as non-binary (and ironically Naoto might have been a small part of that journey) since this comment was written either way I at least have a seat at this particular table]) in, since representation in that group is very scarce and I don’t want to take that away from them. But like a lot of these young people also need to understand that you can disagree with somebody’s head canon and not accuse them of being insert-ist or -phobic of choice here (trust me, I’m a bisexual, debating the sexualities of certain WLW characters can be a bit of a nightmare sometimes in these spaces since comphet is a thing, and I do acknowledge it’s common with lesbians but sometimes you can get accused of lesbian or bi erasure if you “say the wrong things”)

[@autistic-dan455]

Great and insightful video like always. I'm not experienced enough to add anything into the conversation but I can admit that when I first played through the P4 story, I never prejudged any of the characters. Them being teenagers, not yet knowing what they want to be and the struggles to learn what that is, just felt normal.

[@Sammmmmmmm617]

Awesome video. Can't believe we still have to have this conversation when it's CLEARLY stated in the games story and social links.

[@GinraiPrime666]

It just goes to show that people refuse to listen to all points of view and from all angles, which is a shame.

[@CABRALFAN27]

The thing when talking about Naoto, as well as similar characters like Chihiro from Danganronpa, is that the argument for them being trans (And the writing being transphobic) assumes they have gender dysphoria, but that assumption is flawed because there are other reasons someone might choose not to present as their biological sex. Yes, trans people aren't just crossdressers, but people who _are_ "just crossdressers" also exist; Based on the actual canon text, Naoto seems to be one such person, and there's nothing wrong with that.

[@actualgoblin]

"naoto trans" is like the one persona 4 headcanon I don't vibe with, I think it just goes against her entire character arc. Like naoto identifying as a girl is something crucial to her character development. I understand where people are coming from when they say that naoto seems to experience gender dysphoria but in her case, she's uncomfortable with herself almost entirely because of societal pressures. As naoto progresses she learns to overcome these problems and definitely identifies as a girl. I like that she doesn't suddenly become super girly, either, for example she still prefers a more masculine/unisex style of dress because that's what she actually likes to wear. I am not trans myself but I know there's a self-reflective aspect to gender dysphoria, as in it has very little to do with what other people actually expect from you. Claiming that naoto is trans because of systemic misogyny only reinforces the terf brainworm that is "FTMs are just victims of internalized misogyny" blah blah blah cringe, I also get a headache when people argue abt whether kanji is gay or straight because what I got out of his story is that it really doesn't matter... Whether u interpret him as gay/bi or as a perfectly straight guy who doesn't always follow traditional gender roles is left up to the player, and the upside to that is that anyone can resonate with him. Also KanNao FTW.

[@gonzalotorres5282]

I was hoping a Vibin' Naoto Meme. But got something more deeper. I met her in the P4A/U series, and the vibes she gave to me is "tomboy". Not a trans. You can do a Alternate Take of The BlazBlue Series. It was so good the first Three Phases, but it went damn low in CentralFiction. Why? Because his creator said "No couples for you". And the other gripe, is the equivalent of D'Vorah called Mai Natsume. tl;dr: A fuckin' Mary Sue!

[@unknownchicken2284]

I like how people will look at a media trying to talk about one sensitive message then instantly slap their belief on it making the people it's meant to reach out toward feel like their jumping to conclusions then not act on future moments of possible relatability in the fear their wrong.

[@Ramsey276one]

3:30 BTW, apparently Yamato Takeru crossdresses in the mythology!

[@ryansinbela6396]

I love when You said “Fuck Off” Naoto shot her finger gun

[@RogerTaylorsClementine]

I love your accent 😭

[@The4thSnake]

Thank you.

[@FoxflameGoddess]

i see him as bi mostly because he was into naoto before it was revealed she was a girl. at least that’s how it seemed to me. i definitely wouldnt get mad at anybody for disagreeing though. and yeah, naoto isnt trans, i agree

[@FoxflameGoddess]

(he refers to kanji, obviously)

[@VincentEternal]

Snake you’re a brave man. Thank you for this

[@BellowDGaming]

Naoto Identifies As Female - Nuff Said as Astolfo Identifies As A Male because dressing up as a girl is cute for him.

[@MusicoftheDamned]

I think I let out an "oh shit" when I saw this in passing yesterday even though I knew you'd be even-handed about it unlike too many other people. Thank you for also addressing, if only in passing, that "ironically" the most likely of the guys to like dudes is Yosuke given how clearly he's still projecting (onto Kanji) even after all of the apparently cut-content that makes the subtext into just text.

[@flyingpiggles1034]

this video was so insanely cathartic

[@ssjgoku78966777]

My main reasoning for Kanji being Bi is he had a crush on Naoto while he thought she was a guy. He felt relief when he realized she was a girl, and that is because the "gay" part of his shadow he couldn't accept was still part of him. None of the characters work through their problems until social link 10, so he wouls still have the internalized homophobia and feel relief learning Naoto is female. Let me put it this way, if Kanji wasn't into guys at least a bit, he wouldn't have had a crush on a person he 100% perceived as a male. As far as transition regret: people don't like talking about it because it gives fuel for transphobes and is very often portrayed as a large percentage of people who transition, when it's closer to 1~5% (and even that stat doesn't account for people who detransition because of a lack of acceptance in their community/family)

[@samuelisaacdelacruzaguiler2489]

in person Q he said he always knew that Naoto is a woman In any case, he likes tomboys

[@JesterQueenAnne]

​@@samuelisaacdelacruzaguiler2489saying he always knew Naoto was a woman is just a retcon though. A pretty bad one at that.

[@samuelisaacdelacruzaguiler2489]

@@JesterQueenAnne 🤷‍♂️ it's canon Atlus simply wants to make it clear that Kanji is not gay and Naoto is not trans

[@pupp993]

You gone and done it now Snake. Pointing out reality is a surefure way to instigate wokie rage.

[@harryfailsgaming1246]

I’m honestly relieved you mentioned the headcanon aspect of this in your video due to it sometimes feeling like most ppl disregard that part of the fandom and how it’s all in good fun. I’ve seen WAY too many ppl bully others for headcanons that were in good fun cuz it goes against the text and vice versa. It’s honestly great you said it’s just how some ppl want to have fun in the world of the game/movie/comic etc.

[@The4thSnake]

As long as they don't try to force their headcanons on others or get mad at people for not feeling the same way, it's all good.

[@harryfailsgaming1246]

@@The4thSnake EXACTLY

[@portugeese_man_o_war]

With kanji I think he's bisexual, Because he likes naoto before he finds out shes a girl. And still likes her after he founds out

[@ChubuPeng]

back then i never understood the trans headcanon since, y'know she clearly stated herself she was a woman, but i now realize i kinda relate to some of her experiences in wanting to be seen as male. soo yeah trans headcanons are cool but ugh i hate when people wanna harass others with their opinions and state that shes canonically trans.

[@hugosenshida999]

Naoto isnt trans, she is 100% bae. These persona 5 fans dont know who is the true detective prince... 😔

[@fafnirable1]

I may have thought Kanji was gay at first (definitely not anymore), but I never thought Naoto was trans. The shadows were the person's insecurities heightened, so her shadow being that way makes sense. It may be because I have seen this archetype multiple times (Mulan and Faris), but it didn't seem that hard to understand for me

[@ClaireSamuelsVA]

Fantastic take. Gender non-conformity and straying from gender expectations does not automatically make someone trans. I find it frustrating when people can’t separate the two, especially since I myself am cis and female but gender non-conforming in certain ways (deeper voice, for example). Tbh I think a lot of people that argue she’s trans are projecting how they feel about their own gender onto her. Which, like you said, is fine for headcanons and fanworks, but it still defies canon and misses the point of her arc.

[@loganboyd6609]

I don't like Stephanie because she said that sindel redcon was amazing and that it was the true story but the same time I have a feeling she told to say that as she was supposed to advertise it to make people buy it so I honestly see it as she's just doing her job

[@Bunny-Soup]

enby here, everything you said was completely correct.

[@sirrealgaming6913]

Game Grumps went on a giant soapbox rant about Chihiro being trans during their Danganronpa playthrough Even though he as a character just wants to be a man and his entire character arc is him finally taking steps to better himself into the image of the man he truly desired to be Chihiro was always a man in the first place so the entire rant both felt really shallow and was also horribly misinformed x3

[@Jay-Voorhees]

1:31 Literally The Character herself said this but people are so caught up in agendas sometimes I swear their brain ceases to work🤦🏾‍♂️

[@nassiemartinez4399]

There’s no agenda it’s literally a fictional character that some people(who probably never played the game) misinterpreted

[@GaeaRage0798]

In other words Naoto's character arc is just another approach to the same struggles that Sae went through, plain and simple.

[@TonyRedgrave-of9od]

You're alright on my book, Snake. People are people and they're free to choose what they wanna be as long as they accept themselves the way they are without thinking too much about others' enforced opinions.

[@FairyHeartGaming]

You might as well call her Miss Conception!!! (Yeah, pelt me tomatoes, I deserved it!)

[@gonzalotorres5282]

**a tomato appears like Mr. Cage Nice Neighborhood*

[@Skullkid20999]

I thought it was pretty obvious that Naoto wasn't trans, her reasons for pretending to be male makes sense. It would be nice to have a genuine trans character in persona with a decent writing, would be cool as heck.

[@princecrowe6417]

LGBTQ community: respect all sexuality and genders! Naoto:I’m a woman Also LGBTQ: NO TF YOU’RE NOT 🤣

[@aerithroses2683]

Like the LGBT Respect Straight people

[@irvingphillips6716]

Omg I really wanted someone else beside me to say this out loud. Like the character calls themselves she so why is it hard for people to accept this.

[@Einamu]

It still baffles me how different Stephanie is now compared to before transitioning or even losing weight, nothing but mad props for being able to change yourself with that much dedication and effort, and kind of insane to (somewhat) see it happen in real time with the Watchtower livestreams into the Kombat Kasts, my comment is a bit off topic but I just thought I'd mention it due to the end of the video.

[@returnedtomonkey8886]

Who is she though?

[@nassiemartinez4399]

@@returnedtomonkey8886 random game dev

[@Einamu]

@@returnedtomonkey8886 NetherRealm Studios Lead Quality Assurance Analyst

[@returnedtomonkey8886]

@@Einamu in that case... Don't get this wrong, i ain t saying this because she's transexual, i'm saying this because I don't like her work. Mk11 sucks.

[@Einamu]

@@returnedtomonkey8886 I absolutely agree with you, MK11 is dog shit.

[@StarDragonJP]

I haven't play the game yet but I knew about Naoto's situation, so it's always weird to see people referring to Naoto as trans. Like it's alright to like a character for what they are you don't need to force them to be something they're not.

[@RonathonCharlie]

Thanks for writing this out man. This has always been one of my favorite characters and it sucked to see her story so bent out of shape.

[@RyanKarolak]

"Trans" can be considered as an umbrella term, but when it comes down to it I consider Naoto to be gender non-conforming. I think that extends a bit beyond just workplace discrimination and perhaps into some body dysphoria and general discomfort with feminine expression, but without reading between the lines she has identified throughout the games as a woman. There are people who are women who only feel comfortable expressing themselves as masculine. I have a friend who is similar to Naoto in that they bind their chest and they only are comfortable expressing themselves as masculine, but they identify themselves generally as a woman, and sometimes prefers different pronouns. I personally think Naoto is a better representation of woman like her than trans man or trans Non-Binary. TBH it's a bit exhausting for people to argue so vehemetly that she definitely is trans or definitely isn't trans by people who has no background in the community or knowledge behind the writing beyond armchair analysis. It's not necessarily a bad thing to have varying interpretations of a character or get different things out of them and respect that other people may be differently. The discord around this topic is so bad it's hard to have a meaningful discussion about Naoto's gender and why people have different views on it. I do agree that we should respect how people identify as in terms of gender. Forcing someone who is a masculine woman to identify as a man when they don't want to is as bad as misgendering a trans woman as a man. I respect that it sounds like you consulted trans people on their perspective. ATLUS could have handled Naoto and these situations a lot better. Some things feel like trans or gay baiting. but until they do all we have to go on is what we have.

[@HMZeroTwo]

You're cooking up a storm here Snake

[@redacted1093]

3:27 Something I hate is how people label Yosuke homophobic for his question to Kanji in the tent but none of these people would bat an eye if it had been a girl directing that question to a heterosexual guy while sharing a tent(hell been so long since I've played the game but I think they do something similar by having the guys share with the girls moments later and I think Chie brings it up).

[@nassiemartinez4399]

Kinda a false equivalency

[@josephrock5812]

@@nassiemartinez4399 no

[@nassiemartinez4399]

@@josephrock5812 well yeah actually because for one bigotry against heterosexuals isn’t a common or institutional problem and a straight man asking someone if they’re gay is a lot less likely to get an honest answer than a straight woman asking a straight man

[@josephrock5812]

@@nassiemartinez4399 Nope

[@nassiemartinez4399]

@@josephrock5812 k have your wrong opinion

[@HoseB932]

I thought it was plainly obvious Naoto was just a girl trying to hide her gender to better fit in with her workforce. How does one stretch this far? I am not trying to hate on the idea and say she ABSOLUTELY should not. I just don't know how someone thinks this. Great video again, keep up the solid content and making me pepelaugh.

[@duncangaming4165]

This is such an amazing video, I'm sorry that twitter stans are going to eat you alive.

[@anotheraccount1303]

I love how the game is about searching for the truth, yet people bend this truth for it to mean what they want

[@silverhawkscape2677]

Exactly. Nato says it herself when you complete her Social Link. She is a Woman. A Woman Detective.

[@leonlegend]

When I first saw Naoto I thought that she was a girl. And then everybody was calling her 'he' & 'him', & I was pulling my hair out saying 'That's not a "he"'. Then came the big reveal & I was like 'Yeah, I know.' I couldn't believe that the game tried to sell me on that narrative for so long & yet some people interpreted it as a message for trans? And they get all butthurt if you don't see her that way? I thought the Persona fanbase was a good one but once 5 hit store shelves it just got shitter & shitter. (I never did Naoto's SL because of stats but I did want to, at least)

[@megamike15]

it's more her english voice actress was doing a very bad job not sounding like a girl when doing her " boy." voice.

[@Santoryu90]

I mean this is anime, there are plenty of male characters who just happen to look and or sound like girls and Naoto is considered a masculine name apparently, so I don’t think it really would’ve mattered if you already knew or not.

[@user-bp5eb4qz4g]

All those arguments are dumb and literally does injustice to her character.

[@Byzantine_Orthodox_Christian]

?

[@akiradkcn]

Stay mad

[@Byzantine_Orthodox_Christian]

Arguments from which side lol

[@TheAuthorStudios]

I always will jump headfirst to defend when someone misgender a Trans character (tho admitelly there aren't many out there) Therefore, I will ALSO jump headfirst to defend when someone misgender a Cis character as being trans Naoto is one of the two i activelly really like as a character, so I get kinda angry at people misrepresenting her But anyway, i'll send this video to them in case.

[@bloodycherri2798]

As someone who is also a trans woman like your friend. Yeah no this character is not written at all like she’s meant to be trans and her problems aren’t anything related to typical problems someone that’s trans would have. Good video btw I never got into the Persona games tho lol

[@blacksaint3070]

It seems like to me that some people do not understand the type of writing that is done at Atlas for the Persona series. While sometimes the story is kooky and doesn't make sense but when writing about that characters they always focus on WHO they are not WHAT they are. One of the reasons why Kanji and Naoto are loved and respected is because they were written to be people despite their sexuality and gender issues.

[@Ramsey276one]

2:23 so THEY are the Midnight Channel IRL! XD

[@kaylemathewcomendador6964]

Yeah, you can say that Naoto’s backstory has something in common with the trans community, but she ain’t canonically trans. You saying that Naoto gives you more trans woman vibes than trans man vibes? Reminds me of how I perceive Chihiro from Danganronpa. The fandom really likes to assume he’s a trans woman just because of his looks. But he weirdly gives me more trans man vibes. Like Chihiro’s a feminine looking person that wants to look more like a big strong man. I don’t get how someone can look at that and say Chihiro wants to be a woman. Yeah, we need to be more aware of de-transitioners. It’s unfortunate how there are fear mongering weirdos trying to take advantage of them to make more transphobic excuses, but they exist & need to be treated well too.

[@DaddyDynastic]

Honestly I think you're right about it being important to address people who think they need to transition to be happy when it's probably not the best thing for them I don't know if this is getting worse or I'm just seeing more of it lately but people will refer to someone as an egg ((AKA a trans person who doesn't realize they're trans yet)) for having feminine Hobbies or behavior or even just choosing to play girls in a video game When the truth is sometimes sometimes people aren't strictly masculine or feminine

[@Zekken_The_Lodestar]

I'm actually glad I found this video before getting to that point in the game. After this video, Naoto really reminds me of Mulan. The old one, not the new one.

[@MagicMel13]

I thought that it was pretty obvious that the whole thing with naoto is that she pretended to be a boy because being a detective was very male dominant. I haven’t even played the game and I know this. People who are obsessed with this need to think again.

[@mocha5778]

Naoto isn't trans but do you know who is? Me. just me, that's all. I only say this because it is >NOT< transphobic to say Naoto isn't trans. Actually, Naoto's one of my favorite type of women. And I always thought Naoto's arc was female empowerment. Sad that goes over people's heads.

[@PurpleRupees]

Exactly. It's about how Naoto doesn't need to be ashamed of being a woman just because she works with misogynistic people.

[@megamike15]

if only twitter and reset era were as sane as you. that tends to be where i see the atlus is homophobic and transphobic bs the most due to kanji and naoto discourse.

[@Joker3180Z]

2:09 not to mention Q2 confirms Kanji knew Naoto was female

[@StudentOfKasumi]

Love you mr snake your videos is always amazing