Romance & Social Links (Persona) | Wasted Plotential

[@samzilla567]

I'd like to give P3P a shoutout where if your dating multiple guys at once and bring them with you into Tartarus they'll bicker on who is the best boyfriend for you. Meanwhile poor Junpei is trying to stop the other guys from killing each other over you.

[@ThiccFurryBoi34]

Now I kinda wish the girls fought for minato would have been funny

[@spydersoup8447]

@@ThiccFurryBoi34 Well, actually with that, the interaction in Portable is that all the girls are just being completely quiet at him and, to use the text for it, 'It's hard to talk to them'. But even with that and the female route version of it, it doesn't really do much and you can easily ignore it and not many people are even going to know about it unless they see KZbin videos of it, which that is pretty much how they're going to discover it. I really doubt they'll ever discover it by seeing it in the game while playing it. It's pretty much one of those things in the game that there's really no way in hell that first time players are ever going to be able to discover it in the game for themselves and the only way they'll ever find out about it is by stumbling upon KZbin videos of it.

[@KoylTrane]

Demolish the bath scenes, do it

[@The4thSnake]

I've been reworking them in Tales from the Metaverse.

[@blaa6]

@@The4thSnake Looking forward to it.

[@gonzalotorres5282]

@@The4thSnake Utawarerumono did it right. MC right away explaining the situation, with no lusty interest whatsoever.

[@MrDarksol]

@@gonzalotorres5282 OK just for mentioning Utawarerumono, you deserve a thumbs up from me!

[@sharzinlalebazri5673]

Imagine a hot spring scene where one of the guys is so paranoid about the cliche scenes that instead of hiding and trying to sneak away, he loudly spouts stuff like "Before you start accusing us of anything funny keep on those towels and let us get out in peace." Or "I'm not afraid of harming women. If you wanna touch my bros you better be ready to square TF up thots." Or "I've seen enough anime to know the bullshit misunderstanding that's about to happen."

[@gonzalotorres5282]

Or like the Utawarerumono anime, talking so casually about an actual intruder with no lust whatsoever.

[@RaspyCh]

This is how I would do it *girls enter bathhouse when guys are still in *guys hear girls talking “AYO is it the females turn!? Our bad let us leave first!”

[@sharzinlalebazri5673]

@@RaspyCh you know... like a reasonable person would.

[@SHADZA4321]

So in other words, you want a Kazuma in a Persona game. I'm down.

[@MaggotCupcakes]

More ideas: If you have maxed social stat , during the bath scene you can talk your way out of it and the girls will believe you. The person you're dating, if in the party will have a special cinematic team attack with you. "Still pissed that Joker and Ryuji don't have a showtime attack but Joker and Kasumi get one."

[@aegis9374]

I totally agree! Like I think Joker should have a showtime with if he is dating someone and like morgana or ryuji because you're so close with both those characters

[@SuperBrunout]

I "studied" so damn much to romance Mitsuru in Persona 3...

[@rsotuyo15]

Me too homie, me too.

[@monkeybone1080]

Man I'm with you 100% on that. There's so much opportunity for depth between the MC and their team in these games that's never explored with romances being so hollow it's painful. Strikers legit annoyed me because it did everything it could to pretend my playthrough of P5 didn't happen the way I did it. I'd like to see them really add depth in the future but considering we're so many games into this franchise I don't think it'll ever happen.

[@Skye_Blue]

Fascinating listen. Your suggestions were interesting; I could get behind a lot of them. This entire video is just things I fuss about every time I pick up one of the spin-offs, especially the Kaname bit at the end. It kills me how whenever it comes to extra content, the developers feel the need to shortcut making the audience like the new characters. Like, with Kaname, they basically pulled a fanfiction Mary Sue insert move by having the characters we already like love her right away. Then with Yoshizawa, they opted to shove her down our throats the entire game rather than let her S-link do the talking. That one especially made me mad because they found all of that extra time in the plot for her, but poor Haru got five extra minutes. Anyway, yeah, I agree with this entire video. They kind of did something nice with P3P that's easy to miss that is more of what I'd like to see. Someone mentioned the FeMC route in the comments, so I'd like to add something that happens in the FeMC route at Yukari's ninth rank. She mentions being invited on a group date. She's unsure about it and asks the FeMC to go with her. I don't know if it applies to all of her options, but if FeMC is dating Akihiko at least, Yukari will say, "Nevermind. Akihiko-senpai will definitely be mad at me." So in at least one Persona game after the original release of 4, the developers did take into consideration your teammates acknowledging your relationships.

[@machito53]

Also if you're dating Shinjiro, Junpei acknowledges it late into the game, P3P in general an now P3R seems to be the best at this (probably easier for them since, you know, the ending) and I wish we get to see more of that in the future games.

[@moleman3081]

When playing through Eternal Punishment I was really surprised when Eriko said she was hiding her feelings for the P1 MC. It was really cool seeing her acknowledge her feelings and makes the endgame reunion even sweeter.

[@SapphireCarbuncle009]

I do really like how Strikers handled it with the Ferris Wheel in Sapporo, though like you said it's a shame you can't go with non-party options there.

[@RaspyCh]

Fucking Morgana ruining my date

[@Omagadam1]

Double Kawakami? What a Chad, I wish I could sub twice.

[@omegacloud99]

4thSnake is a man of culture.

[@_insomniac_423]

Oddly enough, Persona 2: Eternal Punishment handles the use Ultimate Persona pretty well in regards to Tatsuya and Maya. Tatsuya carries over his Ultimate Persona from Innocent Sin because he retains his memories from that game. Maya on the other doesn’t keep her’s because she doesn’t remember what happened in Innocent Sin.

[@moleman3081]

This! Also love how strong and over leveled he is when you first encounter him showing that his experience from IS lingers into the Other Side.

[@VXMasterson]

I don't know if this is in every version of P3 or just in Portable, or if is even for every girl, but I played Makoto's route in P3P and near the end of the game, Junpei confronted the player about plot things and then brought up, "You're dating Fuuka? You got my approval! Treat her right." As someone who played Persona backwards starting with P5, it caught me so off guard that a story scripted scene included a character aware of the relationship. Keep that! Man I wished Strikers let you import a save file from P5/Royal. I remember Haru's ferris wheel scene talking about meeting your true love in a yellow gondola on a ferris wheel while she and Ren were conveniently sitting in a yellow gondola and getting flustered upon the potential. I sat there having romanced her in P5/R thinking "Haru, we're literally engaged, your Rank 10 Confidant screen says I'm your fiancé." And then the tower scene toward the end of the game where the girls all pry at who Ren likes... I was like "guys Haru and I are literally engaged." You're right, Sumi is extremely intrusive. And Morgana having Zorro in Strikers despite his Confidant being automatic, and the multiple implications that every Confidant story was completed, doesn't make sense. I have to headcanon that an alternate/artificial cognitive world reset their Personas because there's no explanation.

[@animepenguin7254]

I talked to a friend that the relationships do nothing but fan service .before. So I'm glad other gets this as well. Nice vid

[@thegamerfe8751]

But in Persona 4 (idk about 5, just started the second palace) you get the Investigation Team's Ultimate Personas from social links.

[@animepenguin7254]

@@thegamerfe8751 nice

[@pmintertek]

@@thegamerfe8751 You do but it isn't tied to romance

[@thegamerfe8751]

@@pmintertek I finished the game, it's still tied to social links.

[@JXZX1]

Honestly, let’s just double down and acknowledge how much of a reprobate the MC/player becomes if they give in to their power fantasy. Y’know, something like P2 relies on the main characters being imperfect.

[@frankwest5388]

I really like the idea of characters referencing someone’s evolved persona in battle. Saying something like “I didn’t know you had that power in you” “How did you get so strong” Or “did your persona always look like this?” Would be really fun and immersive

[@theboihilbirt1277]

All social or romantic relationship quest don't matter in every JRPGS's in main plot or main game. Social Link is cool concept in game feel outplace nobody comment my relationship with that character and even character treated like always in main plot. (Probably only one kinda make sense is FEH3 at least after you beat final boss and beat game, you decided who's married in end)

[@SaltyCalhoun]

It's crazy how great a lot of the social links are and how little they effect the actual plot

[@rsotuyo15]

I think having a monthly date event where not all girls are available would make so you can know more of certain characters you don't really care and not just focus on leveling up social links.

[@ultima1033]

It does always nag at me that they never let the characters use their transformed Personas. The spin offs always seem designed to either ignore or negate their existence. I mean, on certain levels I can accept it. Locking Yu's behind a finisher for one. But still, thank you for saying it. Also...8:22 Not saying you NEED to, but a lot of us would appreciate the catharsis that would come from the verbal lashing of the scenes...just saying.

[@raikoedgymoto]

*laughs in P3 cast using evolved personas in Arena*

[@digimonlover1632]

@@raikoedgymoto Those are story based though.

[@thegamerfe8751]

@@digimonlover1632 They unlock their Ultimate Personas in the main story... So ??? Yes in Persona 4 they get theirs from social links but it's never been implied that they canonically get their Ultimate Personas. Those Ultimate Personas might have been a gameplay only thing and don't exist in the story, idk. But tbh that sucks.

[@Rodri34451]

@@digimonlover1632 Now that I think about it, Teddie is the only one of the IT who would canonically get an evolved persona because of his social link leveling up automatically through the story. Still, in all his other apparitions he uses Kintoki-Douji instead of Kamui.

[@elgusanito4971]

Its basically because Joker is not in the "legal" grounds yet, so you have to live with the tease

[@filipe19991]

I feel that is something Persona can learn from Fire Emblem. Fire Emblem has canon pairs even if they are allowed to married someone else. Caeda and Marth, Alm and Celica, Sigburd and Deirdre, Erinys and Lewyn and of course Male Robin and Lissa. And fandom has agreed with pseudo- canon pairing, Chrom and Sumia, Ike and Sorren, Owain/Odin and Elise, Eliwood and Ninian. Fire Emblem has builds supports kinda like Persona. Unlock this level of support and this character doesn’t die, you get a weapon, you recruit a character, you unlock a new level, the story changes, or get some buff to fight. And even characters have special dialogues with foe characters and npcs. Imagine this character has to fight or save their dad, they will have a special conversation or imagine the same character has to fight a character that they kill their dad, they will have conversation even they don’t have much importance to plot. Fire Emblem does Monogamy relationship very well. Character can S-Support different characters but you can only get 1 S-Support either as straight or as homosexual couple. While some support might lean to more or less romantic than other, is up to Player to decide. Each support level grants a special bonus during fights which builds the chemistry to the characters. Some pairs are sometimes more easy to build a connection than others. You have option to not marry anyone if you desire to not do that. But you will not gain certain things married bonus in battlefield or have kids.

[@DaddyDynastic]

"I dated kawakami exclusively" Ah a fellow aristocrat, Exquisite taste my friend

[@andresalonsomartinez3070]

"Social links" having actual effects and consequences is only in Devil Survivor 2. If a character is dead, the social link of other characters that interact with him/her can be vastly different and also have some different interactions with the protagonist depending in the route or affiliation.

[@MusicoftheDamned]

9:05 = I honestly can't remember if this is the first time you've alluded to Sho Minazuki and/or Labyrs, but it definitely feels like the first time you've implicitly praised them. Then again maybe it's damned by faint praise given one of the comparison points is Marie....

[@albertocruzjr12]

Kawakami best p5 wafiu You made a great choice

[@LTDLetsPlays]

5:35 cuz they never developed to begin with while p3 gets its personas evolved state in arena games cuz it happened in main story

[@Alex04blue868]

1:04 kinda the reason I don’t like that the idea of the mc dating a bunch of people at the same time. It kinda ruins the MC’s relationships and makes the ending feel fake since “everything is fine” for some reason.

[@TheDigitalApple]

Feels like it’s been a missed opportunity for an official Persona dating sim!

[@jasonblundelldobebussing]

9:24 Fither? Yeah, he's a nice guy

[@papahudz69]

I was hoping you would cover this. Especially with the multiple relationship the MC has

[@nikolasfaraday9934]

So many RPGs do that not only Persona games. They give you the option to romance party members which most of the time only consist of some extra talks, then you get together maybe even have a sex scene and after that you never have to interact ever again, only if you are lucky maybe some of your party members will comment on the relationship once. Getting together should be the beginning of the relationship not the high point and yes I get that most of these games are not relationship/romance simulators but adding a few extra dialogue choices to affirm the relationship here and there would help a lot.

[@lucasbarros8540]

In Mass Effect it's not like that

[@gamefreakDX]

I like Yoshizawa a lot, but... I can't deny that you're right.

[@kaylemathewcomendador6964]

I really like the idea of there being a scenario that’s basically relationship customization screen in disguise for the players that dated a certain character in the spin-offs and sequels. Like what’s the point in playing the sequel & spin-off when there’s no way to carry over certain player choices? I’m guessing that’s not a thing yet due to that taking a bit too much time & money for Atlus’ liking.

[@Pridekun97]

What annoys me more is that you can romance women older than you but Yusuke, Ryuji & Mishima are out of the question.

[@Takejiro24]

Pretty double standard

[@Morichoradio]

Why the fuck would you date mishima.

[@bigboi_tony]

So what, joker is straight. Ain’t nothing wrong with that

[@aptasu1179]

Make this game yourself if your gonna complain

[@jmaster4941]

This is why they should add a female option to P6. Fire Emblem lets you romance the boys if you pick the female main character, so that's all they need to do. It's that simple.

[@mortalballgt52]

I should be in bed but this madman just HAD to upload at 3AM!!!

[@the_dapper_stormtrooper9302]

After playing all the main line games recently i completely agree with everything you said. It really sucks making such a big decision only for the game too do everything in its power to ignore it. Example being the beach field trip where ann asks you what type of women you like which she will do regardless if you two are currently dating. Another example being eveyone under the sun in persona 3 wishing you luck with yukari while your litterally dating someone else under the same roof. It makes these deeply writen characters just feel like hollow facades when you actually choose to get together which is the exact opposite of how it should feel. Its truely disheartening when the most coherent way to play persona is too completely ignore the romance aspect of the games.

[@ThatBoiTurbo]

Great video👏🏾 I agree with all your points and they would make Persona even more awesome!

[@omegacloud99]

While I agree with everything, in Advent Children Cloud wasn't emo for no reason, he had the equivalent of a alien cancer eating away at his body and knew it was going to kill him soon.

[@omegacloud99]

@@tintor2 yeah the hate really spans from Kingdom Hearts where the reasons of Cloud attitude weren't really explained. KH1 is where Cloud acted like he was Vincent and dressed like him too.

[@omegacloud99]

@@tintor2 In 2, in 1 he just showed up acting like Vincent and wearing his cape and gauntlet

[@dragonhitman1071]

Yo I was so upset kawakami was never in strikers.

[@marklouiegarcia2588]

To me, I mostly believe that the reason why the P4 & P5 Casts (except Yu) don't have their 2nd or 3rd Tier Personas is becuz their Evolutions functions like that of any other "Anime Power Transformations Trope", where you do gain a Powerful Form but in exchange of Draining your Energy a lot faster (Ex: Super Saiyan). Another in my Mind... In terms of Sequels, due to the P4 & P5 Casts of not going to their Respective Shadow Worlds or doing Physically Intensive Training after a Few Months of the Events of their own Games, they couldn't keep their Evolved Personas as they used to do when they were Active Persona Users. (Anime Ex: in Dragon Ball, Adult Gohan wasn't as powerful as before becuz he didn't train intensively as Goku or Vegeta. Even if he still has his Powerful Forms, he gets a lot of Exhaustion due to not training in said Forms) Becuz of this, the P4 & P5 Casts are not like the P3 Casts due to them being the Shadow Operatives, where it's Mandatory for them to train Every Week or Everyday, doing so to keep themselves in Shape & by that Extent, keeping their Personas in their 2nd Evolution. This is my Headcanon or Theory about why it's like this but I do hope that this is case...

[@aliridho3513]

I think a very great example of this is fire emblem three houses, some scene would not even be triggered if you’re not interacted or do a certain character

[@VolticWind]

I feel like trying to implement your suggestions is probably a logistical minefield.

[@90Rush]

I guess it depends on what you mean by a logistical minefield. In the current version if you want to stay loyal to any one girl, want to switch up which girl you date will have you reload a save back to August or September even if you delay their social links. You could say "just endure the valentine scene", well, the game warns you when you are entering your second intimate relationship. That is already pretty bad. I feel the problem is persona series SL structure, from 4 to 5, has not seen any changes even though the dungeons have advanced leaps and bounds. P4 came out in 2008, but P5 came out in 2017. The game and better automatic QR system could handle a bigger logic tree now, right, right? No, P5 has even fewer interactions between possible lovers than P4. Also, the SL rank down system OP talks about already exists in persona series since 3 or 4 anyways. I agree losing ranks will mean extra work, so current rank down system will need to suffice (you need one timeslot to reconcile that SL).

[@alphawilliams7923]

My three thoughts: 1. Yeah! This why I prefer Visual novels that does a better job at romances. 2. I'm glad you mentioned Mass effect because it's sad that a War RPG is better at romances than the ones Persona 3-5. 3. Another thing, even Catherine & Fully body does a better job at making the realtionships being important especially to your friends as well.

[@naos8116]

There's only a few times Rank 10 social links are mentioned or referenced outside of the link themselves. Akechi's is referenced through the ending cutscene, and he has to be maxed to unlock the extra scene. Yosuke mentions his during Arena, I believe. And Naoto seems more accepting of her being a woman, but outside of that, I can't recall too much. I do wish romances mattered more too. It feels weird to get shipteasing scenes and Rise all up on me when I dated Naoto, for example.

[@Pduarte79]

Another way is your waifu personality set, if she's open to an open relationship or not. Meaning it works both ways. Allowing to date multiple girls, if your main girl is open to an open relationship.

[@blaa6]

I really hope this is in Persona 6. 7:07 I completely agree with this too. Only thing is I love Yoshizawa. Dated her for my New Game Plus after Futaba. And yes, please try to fix the hot springs scenes!

[@rokkumandriller5935]

One _infinitesimally_ small change they could've made to help sell these relationships better (particularly with romantic interests who aren't party members) is to change what name the protagonist (and the map/fast-travel system, by extension) refer to a character as depending upon how far you are into their confidant/social link or whether or not you're already dating them. Certain characters in P5/P5R (namely Akechi, Kawakami, Takemi, Iwai, Ohya, and Yoshida) are only ever referred to by their last names. Which is perfectly serviceable early on when you aren't that close with them, but it feels a bit off that by the end of the game you haven't started addressing them by their first names yet. _Particularly_ in Kawakami, Takemi, and Ohya's cases, given that all three of them are potential romantic interests, and even if you _are_ dating them, you're still forced to refer to them by their last names anyway. It's especially fucking weird because Chihaya is the only exception to this rule; both Akira and the game refer to her as _Chihaya_ for the entirety of her Social Link. Wouldn't it be rad if, whenever the game prompted you to pick a character to spend time romantically with, (ala White Day and the Hawaiian trip) it would say _"Spend time with Sadayo"_ or _"Spend time with Tae"_ and the like. Really sell just how far you've come with these characters. Tora I get because he is _mega fuckin' old_ and Akechi is, unfortunately, _Akechi,_ but you're seriously telling me that by the end of the game, after Munehisa has made _several_ both direct and indirect assurances that you are an _honourary member of the Iwai family,_ you are _still_ expected to refer to him by his last name? This is bullshit and I will not stand for it. #AkiraHasTwoDads They actually did this pretty okay with _who else_ but Yoshizawa in P5R, where she spends most of the game addressing Akira by his last name _("Kurusu-senpai")_ but starts addressing him by his first name during all the spoiler stuff in the third semester when they really cement their bond. Although it still flounders a bit when, for plot reasons, Akira has spent the entire game addressing her by her first name anyway. But baby steps. This could even be implemented really easily for non-romantic relationships as well. Like, take when you initiate Hifumi's confidant; you're trying to get her attention and your very first options are _"Togo-san?"_ and _"Hifumi-chan?"_ She'll acknowledge you if you pick either, (as you've already met the _Charm_ prerequisite for talking to her) but if you pick the latter she could instead grumble and insist that you call her _Togo-san._ Then on subsequent visits, the map would list her as _Togo_ instead of _Hifumi_ until you progress far enough into the confidant where she's comfortable addressing you by your first name. I also _really_ wish P5/P5R had a proper poly route. They've already coded in a system for dating multiple characters, it is _right fucking there._ But the only way to interact with it is to be an in-universe piece of shit and inexplicably two-time (or nine/ten-time if you're going for the harem route) characters you're _supposed_ to have developed meaningful and impactful relationships with; characters you've helped overcome their crippling insecurities with, and in most cases, saved either their lives, their careers, or _both,_ just to cheat on them at the last moment. That is so fuckin' disappointing and a serious titty twister for all of us polyamorous players who would be _elated_ to have a real, genuine, consensual poly route where the protagonist is thoroughly honest and transparent about their desire to date multiple people at once. I get that we're a minority here, but the system is _already fuckin' there,_ just recontextualise it and let me date multiple characters without wanting to throw myself off Port Adelaide out of guilt. Also, massive props for using Sadayo and Akira in the thumbnail. Best P5 ship and no force on this _planet_ will ever change my mind.

[@insanemakaioshin]

There should be a harem option where you can take certain characters to the side and *ask their permission* to date both! It’s not cheating if you have their permission & they know and are okay with it!

[@joshuafranklin5636]

JRPGs are basically Anime and harem anime is a things.

[@insanemakaioshin]

@@joshuafranklin5636 exactly.

[@howard7318]

In all honesty, I don't like the Harem option since it makes the relationships you are with very cheap.

[@insanemakaioshin]

@@howard7318 Al relationships are built on trust and hard work. It actually increases the value because of how much they trust you and each other to make that work.

[@galetempus1979]

Wow, just went and layed out all my issues with the games

[@travus111]

Yeah but you get to romance hot goth doctor doe

[@gonzalotorres5282]

Wait, this isn't Mortal Kombat... is something deadlier: SOCIAL SKILLS. And yeah, **You should do a Wasted Plotential on "Hot Springs Scenes" in General. Utawarerumono did it magistrally.**

[@mr.k418]

7:12 thank you! I’ve wanted this forever!

[@overlordzetta7410]

Yeah i like your idea's but i would also like the persona games to come out more than once a decade.

[@srbot6396]

I agree some changes should be made but persona isn ‘t a dating sim so I wouldn’t ask for so much because you will probably be underwhelmed with the final product

[@missNekolover91]

than the romance options shouldn't get butthurt after people reject them

[@TheKing-qz9wd]

I'm playing poker in Hell with the likes of Durge and Terumi. Ya'll be "dating" folks you don't see for months. And I'm supposed to be crazy.

[@isaiahrivers7117]

For Persona 5 or at least with royal they could've made where if you dated a girl without cheating on her then on one more day after valentine (or could've been on valentine's you know) then you would be able to kiss that girl that you choose to be your girlfriend and you would be able to see that kiss and not fade to black before it can happen like it was with Ann when you romance her and when you reach the max confidant with her. Also like 4thSnake said in his first P5 video where in the end there can be a moment where when you have to go home your girlfriend or the whole party will speak out and doesn't want you to leave and you can choose to say or not and you choose to stay then there will be a different ending (which i guess it would be the true ending) where it would be the same with you riding in the van with your friends and all but you would not go home and still be with your friends and all. Like 4thSnake said it could've been a reward for maxing out the confidants.

[@thaoster209]

P5 is the only game where you can date your teacher. Which is great in my book.

[@oriongear2499]

Yeah. When I played P3 and did Kenji’s SL, I was like “You’re so lucky, my guy!”.

[@g______balll6674]

Why must you wake me up at 3AM!

[@The4thSnake]

It's 9am.

[@TheDigitalApple]

Blame the time zones

[@saloz9483]

To be honest I feel like this is never going to change in the persona games. Its a whole lot of extra work when the devs do spin off sequels to the count every possible love interest and I doubt they would do a cannon love interest as it would make players who didn't choose that character make their playthough feel pointless.

[@redacted1093]

3:17 I've always had a problem with timed games (probably why I hate Dead Rising despite it otherwise being something I'd find fun) but the time slot system in Persona has especially annoyed me at times(The only thing is I have to put up with it because Persona is one of the last turn based rpgs available and I heavily prefer turn-based rpgs particularly when every game in existence is the same damn action rpg these days just with a different face) I feel like Persona takes away far too many timeslots like you should be able to have two activities after school, invite multiple people and have four activity slots on days off to balance it out maybe include social links amongst party members(like in Fire Emblem) and maybe maxing these grants them a special duel persona attack more powerful but consuming more sp.

[@abdullahamr9941]

To be honest I never liked the whole cheating thing Just pick one and I picked mokato from persona 5 because she is best girl

[@Rafael-2105]

Romance options always feel tacked on.

[@oriongear2499]

TBF, you don’t have to romance anyone.

[@raulpatino1724]

Glad I stumbled onto your Channel looking into making video games.

[@Saiyef96]

Having the option to pick who your love interest is in sequels and spin-offs would be great, like in Tales of Symphonia: Dawn of the New World and Hajimari no Kiseki. In the sequel to Tales of Symphonia, Tales of Symphonia: Dawn of the New World, when talking to Lloyd (the first game’s protagonist) he mentions he was travelling with one person until a few months ago giving Emil (the second game’s protagonist) the option to guess which of the first game’s party members it was, resulting Lloyd saying he’s together with them (though only the female party members) and has a scene with said person later in the game. Hajimari no Kiseki, which is part of the Legend of Heroes series and direct sequel to the previous 4 Trails of Cold Steel games, gives players the option to say who Rean (protagonist of the Trails of Cold Steel games) got together with, though it only results in a scene where one character goes “I’m sorry didn’t bring [insert love interest here] with me”. In fact, Trails of Cold Steel has the similar problem with Persona of maintaining limited scarce interactions and acknowledgement the chosen love interest throughout the game while at the same time being better about it than Persona. In Trails of Cold Steel 1, you can’t start dating but you do have the option to pick who you have the highest relationship value with during two very specific events (the dance with at the school festival and saying goodbye at the end of 1) which does get acknowledgement in 2 through flashbacks during a scene where Rean nearly dies and when he reunites with the chosen character. In 2, you have the option to pick which girl to start a relationship with...only for it to be forgotten and erased in 3, the narrative maintaining that Rean never started a relationship in 2, which makes the option to pick Rean’s chosen love interest from the previous game in Hajimari no Kiseki kind of a slap to the face in that they could’ve just done it in Trails of Cold Steel 3 and have Rean in a relationship in the one year between TOCS 2 and 3. In 3, you only have the option to start dating 3 of the girls and, in 4, you can pick whoever from the entire cast which does get acknowledged in the sequel Hajimari no Kiseki. It’s very zigzagged.

[@DaddyDynastic]

Please God I hate the bathhouse scenes with a passion

[@kingteddieP4]

Oh and they can finally give me my teddie relationship I'm still pissed they pussed out on the kiss in p4g Edit:seriously atlus let me be gay :(

[@The4thSnake]

Even though he tries to kiss Yu in the quiz scene.

[@kingteddieP4]

@@The4thSnake oh? I should do it just so I can be disappointed yet again when he doesn't go all the way

[@The4thSnake]

@@kingteddieP4 Yu runs away.

[@RaspyCh]

@@The4thSnake actually Teddie is “drunk” on the atmosphere. Teddie actually misses Yu when he clings himself and Kanji was just in the wrong place at the wrong time lol

[@jasonblundelldobebussing]

Hehe, oh yeah-yeah. Also, 4thSnake, how do you feel about the new SMTV femboy?

[@xxProjectJxx]

This is a problem that goes beyond the relationships. It limits the depth of the party members throughout the story because they always have to be congruent with whatever they're going through in their social links. Characters that join early on like Ryuji or Yosuke have almost nothing to contribute anymore in the late game. P3 limited the social link options among the main party and didn't have this problem as much

[@maokai09]

fair points. fun vid.

[@oldstrawberrypancakes6323]

I always hear people saying “it’s not realistic” when it comes to male dating in persona but you can date like 8 different people all at the same time but one gay man is too unrealistic?

[@returnedtomonkey8886]

Now I'll feel like an idiot if post a video about persona 4 since every point i made has already been made by other reviewers. Is there even a point in working on it anymore?

[@ajflink]

He's idea: Forbid the player from cheating. Sure, it limits the RPG side of things; however, it is better than the protagonist's relationship seeming to exist in an entirely different reality.

[@Rockmanbalboa]

one thing i always felt would be great was social links between the party members not just mc and members, mostly because of how cool was the interactions between p2 cast and how much i wanted to have yosuke and chie interact. also i detest p2 golden mostly because of the Marie character and some changes.

[@docphil9602]

Ahem... let us be gay atlus.

[@aliridho3513]

I think the best example of this is Fire Emblem: Three Houses, some certain event or in game interaction wouldn't even be triggered if you did not interact/do a certain quest for a certain character Spoiler Ahead: I think the best example of this is Mercedes interaction with Jeritza/Emile/Death Knight if do Mercedes's & Caspar Paralogue (where Mercedes found out the death knight is her own Younger Brother), by the time you need to kill death knight, you'll get a cutscene showing Mercedes feeling for her dying Brother while the Death Knight is calling out for her. But if you didn't do the paralogue, you won't see that. And in battle if a character fought their friends, relatives, & their former ally that you recruit, they get a certain interaction before hand.

[@ZenKrio]

I've always said that later Persona games need to tie SLinks into the story a lot more. A couple concepts I've had for this are: Your character can use their power to actually force SLinks with others, so you could say, using P5 as a reference, manipulate events to have Ryuji and Ann date, and by facing a different SLink path, it would unlock new skills, this would also lead to different skills with friendzones, or other skills with other couples. This would encourage multiple playthroughs to learn many skills. As well this would carry over into the story line, and you'd get different quotes. A second party member (preferably an antagonist) having the wild card and building SLinks off screen based on who you don't hang out with, having a point later in the game where whoever the second Wild Card built SLinks with will leave your team to join them as villains depending. Leading to multiple endings. During the reveal of him/her being a villain, they would show you flashbacks of them recruiting your teammates to their side, showing how they did hang out and talk. This would be a situation where over time, this other wild card user would use their power to convince them that they are the good one here.

[@daleketchup7434]

So, good point, the fact that they get their base persona does hint at the lack of development, and Persona 3 shows that the characters have grown. However, I think it’s far more accurate to say that the persona casts just haven’t used their personas in ages. The TV world and Mementos were gone by the time the protagonist leaves so, how would they keep it?

[@bonafidebruhmoment5440]

8:49 Was on board with you 'till you dissed on Yoshizawa. She's a great addition to the cast and fit in nicely with how they implemented her. Marie sucks tho fr fr.

[@kylesky74]

the only reason it doesn't do it because in most spin offs relationships doesn't matter to the story or isn't important the original game already has all that. the persona thing i can understand p3 and p4 but you could say in P5S jails are different which makes the true ruler of them basically knocking their personas down to base level. hell joker it's easier it's because he became a prisoner of fate once again hell even Lavanza even said you lost most of your power not in that exact wording. also not using your personas for a while does make them get weaker from what i heard but that might not be true.

[@lavender317]

My biggest complaint about the social links is that you can romance every female party member, but none of the male ones This is a serious issue, it alienates a major section of Persona's fan base It also heavily takes away from the role-playing aspect. You can pick your character's personality, fighting style, friendships, etc through dialogue choices, but you can't pick their sexuality. It's bullshit. Not just for gay players, but for female players who'd like to romance one of the guys too. (A femc option for all the games would be nice too, but that's a different issue) I've seen people say they'd get uncomfortable playing the game and having their guy party members ask them out and like. Really? Is your sexuality so fragile that one single optional, deniable line destroys your entire enjoyment of a game? I just think it would make the games more accessible and would add to the role-playing aspect Also. Persona 2. FROM THE FUCKING 90'S. Has an mlm romance as one of the main options, then none of the games since 3 has lesbian romances (Aigis and technically Elizabeth) and 4 ALMOST had Yosuke romancable before they cut it, and 5 had absolutely nothing I just wish these games would be more inclusive, it's really not a huge ask If it takes up too much time or space in the game, they can just cut out all of the pedophilic romances (Joker dating anyone over 18) to make room for the gay ones, that solves two major Persona issues

[@naos8116]

Yeah all the adult confidants bother me more. Except for maybe Chihaya, who comes off as barely older than them to begin with.

[@Cybertechwerewolf]

Ann is best P5 girl

[@tyrellgary4462]

This whole game was a wasted potential

[@harryfailsgaming1246]

Ok but can we all agree that Yoshida is actually a decent character but due to Royal forcing her down our throats she got ruined

[@SleepyDonnnn]

She wasnt really forced down ur throat at all to me she appeared only like 3-4 in the main story at most until 3rd semester which is centered around her

[@ThiccFurryBoi34]

Actually it made me love her more and a great treat to those who ship those 2

[@X_Blake]

I love these ideas and wholeheartedly agree. I would love for the MCs love life to get fleshed out a lot more. But until Atlus starts implementing this into the next Persona game. They have no balls and are following the same formula with little to nothing new add to their future Persona game.

[@spydersoup8447]

Well, Persona 5 Strikers did kinda fix this with the Ferris wheel scene where you can pick either the 4 girls or the guys to spend time with in the Ferris wheel and I've seen that people would always go with the one they have romanced in the orignal game and/or in Royal. It's fine, but this would seem to imply that Joker had canonically dated all the girls, much like in the Persona 5 anime, mostly with the Valentine's Day special, and even so, I wish future spin-offs of the Persona series would have more parts like this, but remove the implication that the protagonist had officially chosen to romance with everyone. Also, I do imagine the actual reason for the characters still having their original Persona in the spin-offs with the only exception being the P3 characters in the P4A games is because the characters in 4 and 5 only get their second awakenings from rank 10 of their Social Links/Confidants, which is their bond with the protagonist and helping them grow and them thanking him for it while the characters in P3 don't get their second awakenings from the protagonist, but rather from after going through one major event in the story and gaining their resolve from it, or in Junpei's case, being gifted of it from Chidori inheriting her Persona onto him. If you think about it this way, there's defiantly a chance that anyone coming into the spin-off games either never played the original game or most likely, never went through a max Social Link/Confidant run and haven't finished all of the Social Links/Confidants, this includes the party members too, which if they were to have every single Persona character have their second or third Personas in the spin-offs, it would feel weird for those players, especially if they've never finished their Social Links/Confidants which is how they get them. I do agree that it feels unfair, but then again, I can understand why they can't have the max Social Link events be officially canon, it was most likely one of Atlus' strict rules for the spin-off titles. At least in Strikers, the P5 characters do get their second Personas back by them leveling up. One guy I know talked about this in detail and offered a solution to this in a P5 Arena game, being a temporary power up feature, but with the characters re-evolving their Personas to their second form, at least for the 4 and 5 characters. Also, it would be too complicated for Atlus to develop the kinda data transfer that the Mass Effect Trilogy had. Bioware may be able to pull that bit off, but I don't think Atlus could do the same thing. I wonder if Atlus games could start doing a game account system like Square Enix, Ubisoft and EA where your Atlus account which you use for each Atlus game you play and connect your game progress and can connect with your other accounts like your Xbox account, your PlayStation account and/or Nintendo account, or more. And your game data and what you've achieved in the games would get carried over to other games from the same publisher. That would be really cool. But, I doubt Atlus or Sega would want to try to make an expanse on their business like that anytime soon.

[@theblackcoatedman6794]

I think that's a lot of dev effort on their part to add all that stuff in. Perhaps that's why they've been doing it the same way from P3 to P5. I'd love it if they put in the effort, but I'm doubtful.

[@quoiquelveaux1890]

Please do a wasted plotential on marie. She s genuinely the worst fucking persona character all while having a really cool concept and potential

[@MrDarksol]

Wow that sounds like a whole lot of effort and a whole lot of hard work but honestly I would welcome it especially if they really really really want to fully flesh out these relationships with characters especially in the romantic ones. Now I actually want these to be an actual thing for the 6th game...... Oh who am I kidding it's probably gonna be the exact same thing as 4 and 5. And also, you should destroy the hot spring scenes even if 3 at least gave you the option to get away from it because i was really pissed when P5 Strikers did it that i literally turned off the game, went back and skipped the scene.

[@TheBlackOtaku]

My persona headcanon ship’s Persona 3, Minato x Yukari Persona 4, Yu x Chie Persona 5, Akira x Ann

[@The4thSnake]

First girl wins.

[@ShadowoftheMask]

I think its that weird dissonance between devs realizing that social links are popular but not realizing players do want them to matter :p

[@kmb1800]

just let them be in a relationship all together lol.

[@lilsoonerfaninmo]

I can assume Strikers did what it did cause the evolved Personas arent.....explicitly canon? But regardless if it did or didnt, the reason why the evolved Personas arent here is the same reason Satanael isnt here (or why Joker only has Arsene). Because its IMPOSSIBLE (or at the very least, just a huge headache) for a seperate game at another games save data on that level and heavily adjust the game. Its why what you get in Strikers just boils down to music unlocks. And how are they incomplete in Strikers? They have their base Personas? Not their behaviors or talking? Especially when it comes to the members that confront the Monarchs?

[@realrealwarpet]

Kawakami? Naw, I dated the definitive best girl. Makoto.

[@The4thSnake]

ew

[@thefvguy5648]

CAN’T ESCAPE FROM CROSSING FATES

[@rsotuyo15]

@@The4thSnake shame on you.

[@saloz9483]

dam right!

[@ThiccFurryBoi34]

@@The4thSnake how dare you well if it was vanilla it’s makoto but for royal it’s sumire

[@ShadowOfMassDestruction]

I hate this the most in P4, I love Chie to death and try to spend most of my time with her in game. But because the romance is cornered off in its own section and P4 already has these extreme ship tease moments with certain characters it breaks the immersion so hard. The final straw was when Marie got her confession in the golden ending when NO ONE ELSE DOES.

[@greatestgamer00]

fuck me as a persona fan this is some good ideas and something I always assumed they would have. guess I wanted to much deus ex in my persona

[@daleketchup7434]

To be fair, if you’re straight up loyal in Persona 4 and 5, nothing big happens. It shouldn’t ruin your relationships. In persona 4, you can date one person. There’s a KZbin video about a rare scene where you’re loyal to Chie! You can’t find loyalty to literally anyone else! If you can find it, please tell me so I can watch!

[@FrogJuiceJustice]

Well now I have to make that version of the game, geez

[@cypressfairchildflynn4102]

There's so much that I wanna rant about this game... But thr 4th Snake already covered most of the issues I had. Glad he sees these problems when most gamers don't.

[@InvinciDon]

Y’know, I actually think Joker would’ve made a perfect canonical pairing with Kawakami, I know it’s weird but this is a guy saying he loves the Joker X Kawakami ship and also is a weird guy, so……..

[@nmikk10]

Um also gay relationships. Why is my main character by default attracted to just women? At least have them be bi if you still want to have the teenage girls/boy interactions

[@missNekolover91]

because only men play video games while the women are cooking, cleaning and being pregnant 24/7 (it's a joke)