Is Praying to the Saints Permissible?

[@Hendrix_]

Not long ago I saw myself as a protestant, during that time I would argue with Orthodox Christians and Roman Catholics over their asking of intercessions of Saints. I always had thought of it as being idolatry, and even more harshly I saw it as proof of possible polytheism/paganism corrupting the Church. During that time I felt called to ask "Why" and to truly listen instead of argue, since then I've denounced my old beliefs and recently bought myself the Orthodox study bible so I can eventually enter the faith of the church fathers.

[@Buecherwurm_8]

Glory to God! Go to an orthodox liturgy!

[@Nwflhvacguy]

Oooohhhhh he’s in the path! Go to a Liturgy. I’m a recent convert myself.

[@FaithfulComforter]

Awesome! You should get Rock and Sand by Josiah Trenham and Beginning to Pray by Anthony Bloom. God bless

[@Hendrix_]

@@FaithfulComforter I’ll check them out, thank you for the recommendations!

[@FaithfulComforter]

@@Hendrix_ You’re welcome bro. Kyle Orthodox is a good channel.

[@Jac0bspeaks]

Amen. Great video and insights. That’s what I realised also, that there’s an army of saints praying for us in heaven and as you said “Why wouldn’t you want that!” 🙏☦️

[@johnsambo9379]

You don't need a saint to pray for you when you can pray to Jesus.

[@Jac0bspeaks]

@@johnsambo9379 did you watch the video bro? Seems like you havnt watched the video yet

[@marcuscoetzee5686]

Your videos are incredibly helpful! I’m a former atheist being drawn to Orthodoxy.

[@mileswilson9629]

🙏🏾🙏🏾

[@OrthodoxChristian27]

Glory to God!

[@Tpeltol]

Father, thank you. Thank you for your strength and perseverance. You radiate love and at least through the screen I get to watch you, you seem to be a true messenger and servant of Christ. Thanks to you I’m finding out more and more about Orthodoxy, reading, listening, praying. You are making a difference all the way in Finland. I will pray for you.

[@dante-lj4ow]

My first experience asking a saint to intercede for me was when i was asking the Theotokos to give me strength when i was and am an Ex-Adventist and inquirer to Orthodoxy. I was walking on the long staircase in the Church i was in and began to feel really tired. Then i remembered about the saints and how they can intercede for me while i was walking and because i recently accepted and understood the intercession of the saints i was quiet nervous and confused on how to do it. So i was really struggling on how i should ask the Theotokos to pray for me 😂. So i made up my mind and just said "Most Holy Theotokos give me strength" or "Most Holy Theotokos pray to give me strength"(this petition was quite some time ago so i can't remember the exact words). But once i finish that petition i felt strength glowing back into my legs and i was able to finish the stretch of stairs. And from that experience, my faith in Orthodoxy skyrocketed and from that time i've been asking petitions to the Holy Theotokos, St. John the Baptiser and even St. John of Damascus for guidance, safety and protection. I really believe that Protestants should give it a try and experience the answered prayers of the saints onto us.

[@r4ngerr4ge32]

Praying for strength and endurance is a great thing, among the best prayers because it doesn’t keep you from suffering but it gets you though it, and keeps you humble.❤

[@r4ngerr4ge32]

@@skatermom8259 may God keep you!

[@kiriaioulia]

I love how you bring to light the fact that when we pray for the intercessions of the Theotokos and the Saints that it is to "simply multiply our prayer to Christ." Brought tears to my eyes! So beautiful! How beautiful it is!!!! Thank you! Thank you, Father!

[@EnglishRich]

I am an evangelical Anglican. Although I suspect many in our church would raise an eyebrow at the idea petitioning saints, I am open to the idea and I've progressively found many ideas of the Orthodox church appealing. I think that there are good things that Evangelicals can learn from the Orthodox church, and I would suggest, vice versa. Praise God, and may His Holy Spirt grant us the wisdom to walk the Path of Christ, being made more Christ-like by God. Amen.

[@bonnie_gail]

the Anglican Church has a good relationship with the Orthodox Church

[@harrygarris6921]

It’s worth mentioning that even in the English language, the understanding of a mediator is not someone where you can only communicate with them. Mediation is facilitating two other parties that previously could not communicate to come together and be able to have dialogue. Certainly Christ being our mediator does not reduce our abilities of prayer or spiritual communication but He expands them.

[@oto7039]

but He expands them! amen

[@peterthepainter-peterkoutl8869]

Simply Beautiful! Christ is Risen! Thank you Father. Please keep declaring the Good News.

[@Dvorak-tm8hj]

Thank you Fr. Paul for all your wonderful videos.

[@ericaverrier3197]

Thank you, Fr. Paul. I always appreciate your videos, and they are very helpful in my inquiry into Orthodoxy ❤.

[@TheMatthewLeiby]

Father, bless. You are truly a blessing. Thank you, father.

[@mariakleanthous388]

Amen ❤️ Beautifully explained. As a Greek Orthodox I am always asked to explain why we venerate and ask for the Saints to intercede for us.

[@FiveEyeTea]

I appreciate this video, Fr. Paul. It's something that I've been running in my head (and prayer life) for a few weeks. I'm not Orthodox (I describe myself as "Orthodox-adjacent", at least for now) but I've been on a slow journey of researching Orthodoxy for about a year now, after feeling called to do so right at the tail end of the worst time in my life; those studies have actually been primarily from videos/interviews I've seen of you, as well as Metropolitan Kallistos and a few others. For the most part, I've found that I am right in line with what Orthodoxy believes and I have the utmost respect and admiration for Orthodoxy. It's just that there are a few areas that I can't quite "get" right now, if that makes sense. Intercession of the saints is one of those hang-ups that I'm not quite sure where I stand on, as well as some of the concepts surrounding the Theotokos. I truly agree with the idea that the saints are still alive in heaven. I also find the Orthodox perspective of icons (the analogy of kissing them through glass is what made it all make sense to me) to be quite beautiful. However, in terms of prayers to those saints, I get what you and the church are saying. I'm just still struggling. I know how seriously God takes idolatry, and this is even why my indulgence in things like hobbies is something I try to keep in check. I'm sure God would understand my heart if I ever offered a request for them to pray for me, but I'm also somewhat worried. I don't want to get things wrong in regards to idolatry, then let confirmation bias dictate where I go from there. In other words, if I asked for the saints to pray for me and I see some sort of miraculous wonder in what I prayed for, I'm afraid I'd automatically take that as confirmation that it's the right thing to do; on the flip side, I'm also afraid that if I don't see anything happen differently than my usual prayers to Christ alone, then maybe I'd take that as some sort of definitive sign that it DOESN'T work. I have absolutely no clue if that made any sense. Like I said, I have the utmost respect for the church, and I also align with so much of what Orthodoxy teaches, I'm just caught up on a few subjects like this that keep me from taking that leap. In the spirit of this video, I'd love to ask you (and anyone who reads this) to pray for me to have clarity and focus as I continue to follow where the Holy Spirit leads me. Be blessed, brothers and sisters!

[@JacquelineRPrice]

Amen, Father! "Now he is not God of the dead, but of the living, for ALL live to him.” Luke 20:38 All means all!

[@thefuzzytongue]

This video came just at the right time for me. I’m an inquirer that’s ready to be a catechumen and just found a wonderful church. Thank you

[@jbn668]

Thank you Fr Paul, from a Protestant inquirer. This video brings joy and hope to my heart!

[@lindaphillips4646]

Keep watching. ❤

[@WilliamPotting]

Love these videos Father! Another edifying one! ☦️☦️☦️

[@skipgiblets]

I was very against this for most of my life, but in a video Father Trubenbach was in years ago, my eyes were opened. It was like a mind blown moment. I am all for this now.

[@user-fp8ck8be3n]

Always looking forward to all your videos. Thank you ❤

[@MrX_117]

I am a Protestant who has been blessed by God to see the truth, and I’m learning more about the ancient church. Over time, I’ve come to love Our Blessed Mother Mary and have started asking for her intercession. I’ve also sought the intercession of St. Michael the Archangel and even St. George. Discovering that you can ask the saints to intercede is like finding a whole other side of a family you never knew you had. Knowing they are watching over you and praying for you is truly a beautiful feeling. As you read this, I humbly ask for your prayers. Please pray that the Lord continues to guide me on the right path.

[@DrMichaelMoeller]

Thank you for the enlightening video, Father! May Christ, our true God, Who arose from the dead, through the intercessions of His most pure Mother, our Father among the saints, O holy Paul, eminent among the apostles, and of all the saints, have mercy on us and save us, for He is good and the Lover of mankind.

[@Max-go4sx]

You are absolutely correct Father Paul. 1 Chronicles 29:20(.......and bowed down before the Lord AND THE KING)

[@roseizsvak5051]

Amen. God bless you

[@cece_ym]

This video filled me with joy ❤ God bless His saints

[@kimschroll9790]

Greetings Father Paul, all the way from South Africa. I am a protestant, but I have found comfort and guidance in many of your and Father Josiah Trenham's videos. Although asking for the intercession of the Saints and even venerating Mary is foreign to me, I have great admiration for the intentionality and zeal with which orthodox Christians pursue their faith and Jesus. Although I still have so many questions and wonder about many aspects of orthodoxy, I appreciate your videos and find good, sound wisdom in them. Thank you for posting and sharing this with the world.

[@glennhall609]

Thank you Fr Paul. I am quite new to Orthodoxy from Protestantism and your messages are helping me more and more to work through the transition. The concept of praying to the Saints, even the Theotokos, is quite foreign to me and feels uncomfortable but I will heed your advice and keep practicing. God's Love and Grace upon you.

[@joyjadin]

Thank you so much for teaching this ❤

[@Jcl46]

Thank you so much for this video! I’ve had such an issue with praying to saints. But you’ve answered all my questions. Thank you so much.

[@Doomreb]

God bless you Father Truebenbach.

[@jeanniekaramigios3838]

Thank you for your videos Father. They are very informative. God Bless you.🙏☦️❤️

[@bearchrist2513]

that is a beautiful wall of Icons. St Joseph the hesychast shines from your left shoulder Father Paul, in agreement. Amen

[@glendamcgee1779]

I called myself a Protestant my whole life. Never gave a thought to what I was "protesting," Clearly there is an ocean of Godly beauty before me and you illuminate it so well. Thank you

[@Whaat-in-the-world]

This was the best explanation of this topic I've ever seen.

[@a_lil_bit]

Thank for this Fr. Paul ❤☦️

[@fran2177]

Saints very quick to intercede? Oh yes! Saint John Maximovich is very fast and loving ☦️ "ALL GLORY TO GOD ALWAYS "

[@notarobot2161]

We know this to be true as well! He’s our son’s patron.

[@vt2442]

Thank you Father Paul for another incredible video! This was absolutely amazing. I am always looking forward to your videos! They are so enlightening and encouraging. God Bless you!

[@alm8213]

Thank you Father. I'm a catechumen and your teachings are extremely helpful.

[@TravelingBabyCompany]

Be encouraged my brother I benefit greatly from your videos as I am sure many others do as well.

[@chelseabradham3889]

Amen Father! This is a fantastic explanation of it in terms that hopefully our Protestant friends will understand. Great as always! Thank you. I will be sharing this with my mom.

[@gf1471]

I needed this explanation. Thank you, Father Paul.

[@deannad2555]

Amazing educational video, thank you xx ☺️

[@archaic78]

This is a very clear explanation, ty. Please keep doing the Lords work. You have been very helpful

[@MaskedViolinist07]

Thank you, Father, for this teaching and examples. This deepened my understanding and encourages me to pray more to the intercession of the Theotocos and the Saints. I gain much insight and learning into the beauty of our faith from your videos. 🙏🏼 ☦️

[@alexjiminian2847]

Wow, thanks 🙏🏼

[@Missmoon1993]

Thank you Father

[@nicodemus9105]

I would like to add to your message as a ex-Protestant when making the transition that definitely helped me. First thank you love the videos, you always release them before the drive to work, may the lord have mercy on you and peace be with you. I would like to add, as we see the rich man asking for intercessions for his brothers, we see the saints and 24 elders with the angels in revelation 5:8 and 8:3 offering incense which are the prayers of the saints, before God on his throne. We must remember in rev 5:8 Jesus hasn’t even opened the seals yet so this is before his 2nd coming and we see John paint the picture of saints beyond countable amounts standing with the angles and 24 elders offering the prayers of the saints. So it’s like what saints and prayers are they offering?? The saints standing behind him that are already in heaven?? Of course not that’s non sense, it’s the prayers of us here on earth. When I went to a Protestant “baptist church here in Utah” I would tell my wife I “feel” this is it being lead by my emotions, we also got a free concert every Sunday which was nice. But when we entered the Orthodox Church we look at each other without saying a word we knew 1 million percent this is the living body of Christ

[@ninjason57]

I’m jealous of your experience. I went to an orthodox liturgy for the first time and did not feel the same way.

[@nicodemus9105]

@@ninjason57 I don’t know it could be ones mindset but I can’t speak for anyone else. All I can say is when I read my Bible This is what I see when I read the Bible I see everything the Orthodox Church does, I don’t see anything Protestant when I read my Bible, Jesus constantly talking about prayer and fasting, keeping the commandments, the gospel and Christianity is a way of life it’s a lifestyle, the Orthodox Church keeps the traditions of the how the Jews worship God, Protestants excluded the Jews. There is not one thing in the Orthodox Church we do that is not in the Bible, not one.

[@ირაკლიმაისურაძე-ნ8დ]

God bless orthodoxy ❤

[@alinbrazdau7346]

Amen. Very well said thank you for sharing this video.

[@milicuserbin]

☦️ Amen ☦️

[@antoninospitale4646]

Thank you Father♥️

[@buntbar2438]

Thank you a lot, Father Paul. You took many concerns of me. I fully accepted christ only recently, and my baptism was kind of an emergency Baptism by a brother and a sister. However, I have not registered with any denomination yet. I really struggle with the 2. Commandment a lot, so I am very skeptical about Icons. Since you obviously have gods grace and your arguments are sincere and easy to understand, I was able to let go of many doubts. I still am fearful of Idolatry, and there's a little doubt left. I will have to dig deeper and go to scripture and pray about this again. What I got so far: -You don't pray to or worship Icons, you pray and worship the lord in front of them. -They are "just" illustrations of scripture. Like a "comic book version" -They don't embody the Grace, they "just" point to it. -I got the point about saints living. You are clearly not praying to the dead. I guess I just have to read scripture again. May the lord forgive my skeptical ways! 🙏🏼 Praise God for you Fr. Paul. Your Videos are a blessing.❤

[@R_t_o_b_y]

Great job keep it up ☦️☦️☦️

[@valeriewilson4224]

Thank you.for explaining.

[@sweetstephylu]

ICXB ! preach it Blessed Father! 💖💙💚🙌🕊️ WOW a spectrum _[one of our new favorite words] mulitplied! Music to my ears? YES Blessed Father +++

[@CC-E.O.Inquirer]

Can inquirers/catechumens ask intercessions of saints?

[@freedom8383]

Yes

[@rtdude1]

Absolutely!

[@djonskimu1148]

As a inquirer I went through a long period of unemployment that brought me great despair, I didn't reject the idea of asking saints for intercessions but just wasn't in the habit of it yet, didn't do it. When my bank was nearing zero and nobody got back to me from my endless job applications I thought "well I'm just an inquirer but what do I have left to try?" and fell down before the Mother of God and asked for her help and I had not even stood back up before my phone went off and I had a job starting the same week! Most Holy Theotokos intercede for us, sinners and unworthy!

[@SlimStew1]

Yes, absolutely; please get started now. And, it only helps to start reading the lives of the Saints , in the Synaxarion, Church calendar or the Prologue of Ohrid, in book form or in an app or online.

[@HomoEucharistica]

If the living Christians want to help people to come to the Church, into the fulness of the faith, surely they who are more alive than us desire even more that all could find the Truth.

[@roseekt4799]

Father thank you. Please pray for me🙏

[@justinlockhart9256]

Thank you !

[@uncreatedlogos]

I realized something yesterday. Every time I pray to God, I don't want to approach him with my needs. I come to him offering myself up to grow closer to him and do his will. That is prayer. I also noticed that I rarely pray for myself. I love praying when other people need help but I seldom either pray for myself or ask for prayer because that's not the way I approach God. Yesterday I prayed 1 Ave Maria and it gave me peace. Because I could ask for help without growing in holiness. I wouldn't want to do that when I approach God. God loves me, but he is not about my needs. People who get this wrong fall to a personal theodicy question.

[@benjaminplackemeier1705]

One of my observations is Jesus had more than just the Apostles as followers. A great many of them are saints. Reading many of their stories of examples of faith or works has me very inspired and admiration of the apostolic church. In the book of Exodus “Thou shall not have any other gods before me.” Saints do not fall under the category of gods. Apostle Paul called saints in book of Corinthians “Holy Ones” followers of Christ , interestingly it is written in the protestant Bibles, yet many uneducated Protestants have the audacity to still call it idolatry.

[@joelplough720]

Growing up in a non denominational church this video is very helpful

[@PrairieMuffin]

Everything and everyone which points toward Jesus Christ is not idolatry. Things which don't point us to our Holy God, Father, Son and Holy Spirit, that is the problem. Any holy saint living in His presence points to the Truth. To research the lives of the great saints and see their wonderful example is a great blessing. These are the brothers and sisters we believe are still alive with God. To say they are dead, what hope would there be for us then?

[@mariavlahochristos7756]

Amen

[@beachsidepatriot2733]

greetings father, i am brand new to orthodoxy, yet to be baptized & will be attending my first liturgy soon. i have only attended an easter service last year in the russian orthodox church which was beautiful & deeply moving & led me to seek the Lord Jesus Christ. can you please make a video further explaining how the saints & others who have passed away from this life continue to be alive? thank you very much, father.

[@joelplough720]

Good morning

[@UnworthySeraphim]

Good morning Joel!

[@elusivemayfly7534]

Thank you, Father Paul. Your teachings are such an encouragement to me. I was Protestant all my life, and had a beautiful experience of God through that. But He drew me to Orthodoxy a couple years ago, and I understand many things about Orthodoxy now that I could not on the other side of it

[@jimatreidēs]

“I am the Truth, the Way and the Life, he who follows Me, even though he may die, shall live”. Ἐγώ εἰμί ἡ ἀλήθεια, ἠ ὁδος καὶ ἠ ζωή. Ὁ ἀκολουθῶν ἐμέ κἀν ἀποθάνῃ, ζήσεται. Those that believe that those reposed in Christ are dead are deluded. Thinking that they follow Scripture, they are being heinously anti-scriptural!

[@NavelOrangeGazer]

It was my understanding that "one mediator" is speaking on the hypostatic union between Christ's divine and human natures as discussed at the third and fourth ecumenical councils. He reconciles our fallen human nature to God. The verse has nothing to do with the intercession of the saints.

[@iakov1906]

The recapitulation!

[@Jhadar]

Don't let people butcher that verse either, 4 verses before that Paul explicitly commands that intercessions be made

[@johnsurber9507]

Matthew 27:51-53

[@adriankuma1-1-1]

Hi father, thank you so much for clarifying this for a lot of us. Can I please ask if you could explain the difference between orthodox cross ☦️ and catholic cross ✝️? God bless you father 🙏🏼.

[@HomoEucharistica]

"Orthodox cross" is actually called Slavic/Russian cross . Technically it could be used in Western Christianity as well, just as "Catholic cross" (also called "Byzantine Cross") is used in Orthodoxy. The difference is that Russian cross has three crossbeams; the topmost representing the inscription of INRI (Jesus of Nazareth, King of Jews), and the bottom is the footrest, representing two robbers who were crucified with Him - other one went to Hell, other one was saved and went to Paradise with Jesus.

[@adriankuma1-1-1]

@@HomoEucharistica Thank you for taking the time to explain this to me. Our Heavenly Father blessed you! 🙏🏼.

[@stephjose9401]

I really struggle with why there is any need or desire to pray to Saints when we can enter the throneroom of God by the blood of Jesus. Saints, and no one else aside from the Godhead alone is omnipresent. So, this is my biggest struggle as I am learning more about orthodoxy. I am trying to find the nectar and truly want to understand why. We are all made alive in Christ, so I agree that yes, we are not dead after this life, but alive. Would anyone ask me to pray for them once I pass on from earth?

[@Josh-cu7lu]

I love hearing different Christian’s perspectives because I think we all have something to offer the church. The stumbling block I come to though is that the bible does tell us that we do not know who has made it to heaven, Roman’s 10:6 so to call a person a saint and suggest we can ask them to pray for us because they are alive in heaven doesn’t seem to add up with some verses in the bible. I also think that asking a friend or family member alive on earth to pray for us is different to asking the virgin marry to go to Jesus on our behalf Not trying to attack orthodoxy or Catholicism here just putting forward some reservations that I know people have with this theology

[@ninjason57]

The problem I run into is not having the option to venerate (bow and kiss) icons. The Seventh Ecumenical Council considered it anathema to not venerate icons. It's all well and good to compare veneration to certain cultural norms where that behavior is more accepted (The example of your wife in Romania bowing and kissing an elderly person out of respect). Yet in American culture where bowing and kissing a physical object is seen as worship (despite all your claims that it is not) it doesn't give any grace for the potential of violating that Christian's conscience.

[@jeremyfirth]

Was President Trump worshipping the dead fireman when he walked over, on stage, and kissed the helmet of the fallen firefighter out of respect?

[@CarlylePhelps]

Forgive me in advance if my words seem pedantic or dismissive. Your statements assume one does not know the difference between worship and veneration. You cannot kiss God, yet you worship Him. You kiss your wife, yet you do not worship her. We all know the difference because worship is intentional. Chemotherapy seems foreign to those who don’t know they are sick, but it can heal us-we all have spiritual cancer. The church is the hospital, and its practices are the medicine. If one refuses treatment he is released to his own care (anathematized).

[@brendanfrederick7502]

Don’t let American culture shape your faith, let your faith shape American culture

[@nickrussell5096]

What about when Trump kissed the gear of the firefighter who died at his rally?

[@CarlylePhelps]

One cannot kiss God, yet He is worshipped. One can kiss his wife, yet she is not worshipped. Ought we concern ourselves with those accusing wife kissers of worship? Or be swayed by children pointing and jeering? The Church is the hospital and its practices are the medicine. If one refuses treatment, he is released to his own care (anathematized).

[@synthesaurus]

The problem is that very often in some “ethnic” parishes this is not taught properly. There is WAY more attention payed to the saints than to Christ. Often you can see people praying and kneeling at an icon of a saint during liturgy. Some icons have jewelry gifts ensconced behind the glass.

[@rosem8377]

I have had obvious help from many of the saints. Also, it is possible, as has happened to me, that a specific saint befriend you without you knowing them before.

[@anastasiya256]

Thank you for the explanation and scriptural references. But my next question is: how is this different from communicating with the dead? (like mediums) I’m here after watching your video on why imaginative prayer is bad, because one can be deceived into thinking that they’re hearing / seeing things from God when it’s actually not, and so, it seems like miracles from intercession by saints would also be subject to this danger.

[@brandiniron6112]

What is your stance on the Greek ortho parishes in Orthodox Christianity?! I’ve heard several concerning “ principles”. Great vid.

[@MartinGarcia495-p4b]

Thank for the video Fr. Paul! This was actually very helpful and solved some of my questions. Particularly the whole Why even bother praying to the saints when i can just ask Christ? bit. Now i understand that it's more like asking for a little help with our prayer🙏 Now i do wonder, do saints still intercede for us even if we haven't been baptized in the orthodox faith? Hopefully someone can bright some insight on this question

[@SlimStew1]

Yes, absolutely, they do. And any effort to study their lives, even in brief hagiographies such as in the Prologue of Ohrid, only enhances the process of asking for their intercessions.

[@WeakestAvenger]

(Edit: I asked this question before I watched the video about the fly and the bee. I hope this doesn't come across as nitpicking, because my point was not to criticize but to learn.) Can I ask why you made the Sign of the Cross when you mentioned the Theotokos? I haven't seen that before. My understanding is that that is done when mentioning and otherwise with reference to the Holy Trinity. What is the principle with crossing yourself with reference to the Theotokos? Because the major stumbling block for us Protestants with regard to Orthodoxy us the seeming over-exaltation of the Theotokos. We hear the same (or similar) language directed toward her as toward God, and we see the same (or similar) actions directed toward her as toward God. Sometimes it is hard to see this as not placing her on the same level as God. Please understand I'm not trying to accuse but rather express how things come across to Protestants. I want to listen and be willing to change my view where appropriate.

[@johnnyd2383]

We do it whenever we feel like we should do it. There are no rules, although certain pattern is seen as in a case of mentioning Holy Three.

[@andys3035]

You have a good attitude and that is commendable. Not to argue but can you give examples of language or actions similar given to God that is also given to the Blessed Virgin? Also, we do the sign of the cross for those who have passed, or to commemorate our holy fathers like St. Basil.

[@WeakestAvenger]

@@andys3035 Thank you, your example is helpful. One example of what I was talking about is Ode 3 of the Paraklesis to the Theotokos, which calls her the "only all-praised One."

[@andys3035]

@@WeakestAvenger I understand now. Thank you. That is specifically in context of her being the only one chosen to contain that which is uncontainable. In the verse before that phrase it says: For you are the cause, The cause of that which is good, Support of the faithful Notice it says she is the cause. This doesn't mean she is the cause of God but that through her, she was the vessel, the ark if you will, of the one that is good. So in that sense, she is the only all praised one counted worthy by grace to bring forth the Savior. Sometimes the Greek is a bit off in the direct word for word translation. It also says "Most Holy Theotokos save us." Again, the idea isn't that she is our Savior but that saving is through her intercessions to her Son. Consider Paul's words in I Corinthians 9:22 "to the weak I became as weak, that I might win the weak. I have become all things to all men, that I might by all means save some." Paul is playing a part in bringing salvation to people and in a sense, we all do. But bearing God the Word for the salvation of humanity is really on another level. That alone has bestowed on her. The big difference between Protestantism and Orthodoxy is the concept of synergism. God desires our cooperation as coworkers and co-laborers with him in the gospel. Also, the following is a nice quote from St. Andrew of Crete that sums this up: "but she, instead, has brought forth the one who destroyed death by His obedience. She, she alone has been chosen for the renewal of our nature. (On the Dormition, Homily III, chap 7) There can be another level of unpacking here but this is plenty to consider. And if Fr. Paul reads this, I am more than happy to be corrected if I have misspoke.

[@WeakestAvenger]

@@andys3035 Yes, I asked someone else about that line recently, and he said that she is "the only all-praised One" in comparison to the rest of humanity. That is helpful, but hopefully people can see how it becomes hard to get fully on board when the language directed towards the Theotokos seems so often to be explained as, "Well, it doesn't mean what it sounds like." Maybe that's just because of my modern, Western, Protestant background, though. I want to honor the Blessed Virgin as she ought to be honored, but I must admit I am still uncomfortable with some of the language and devotion directed toward her.

[@Doomreb]

The thing I'm realizing more and more is that low church Christians simply don't know. There's no other conversations that can be had because they reject every single part and this is coming from someone who was like that all my life. And now that I've found Orthodoxy it's a very odd and awkward place to be in anytime we have a talk about any Christian issue because there's no church history or tradition. They can't understand asking the saints anything because to them there are no saints. I've heard my entire life that Mary is just a woman and she's dead. Only now do I feel so cheated out of the sheer magnitude that is the Holy Theotokos and what she means for us and to us. The only time we used to hear the word saints was if someone sang the song about the saints marching in. So before you can explain the act of asking the saints you have to explain the saints. Before you can explain what the Theotokos means for us you have to explain everything that surrounds her. Before you tell them that the saints are alive you have to tell them what a saint is, who they are, why and how they are alive, and what all this means and you have to know ahead of time that every other word or term you use will be a something they have never heard in their life. It's sad to say but low church protestants, especially Pentecostals and non-deominationals are their own separate religious belief with their own interpretations. They are very close to Amish just without the extreme legalism. I know that personally because that's the Christian interpretation I come from and almost everything is fair game EXCEPT anything about actual Christianity.

[@fujikokun]

Can you talk about icons and the practice of venerating icons? This might be the biggest issue my husband has with orthodoxy at this point. I am quite sure that if we become orthodox he will not want to bow and kiss icons because he has never bowed and kissed anyone.

[@georgerolfs9004]

As you see your husband -- that was me becoming Orthodox four years ago! Looking back, I realize now how severely lacking in humiility I was to "bow and kiss icons." I was so prideful I couldn't see myelf bowing and kissing anyone either. Now I can ask for a priest's blessing and kiss his hand (which is actually kissing "His Hand"). This pride was so ingrained in me that even today I am still working on it. But it is becoming easier and easier. Thanks, Fr. Paul, for your message!

[@bryantsamperi3402]

Christ is the only Mediator, but the body of Christ consists of many members with varying functions. Certainly, the saints have risen, are of the body, thus worthy to be called upon even more than the earthly brothers we now ask for prayer.

[@MattigityIsBombigity]

Great video Fr. Paul. Are you able to cover Pope Francis' recent statement how all religions lead to God? I believe this to be wrong but would enjoy listening to your input. Thank you ☦️

[@adanajosna]

My concern with this view is that Jesus describes those that have passed as "asleep" and so does Paul in his letters. Some will quote the famous "to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord" but I believe a more accurate translation would be "absent from the body AND present with the Lord" separating two thoughts. It would be contradicting if Paul states they go to sleep and then says never mind they go and be with the Lord. Also, if we are present and alive with the Lord when we pass. What is the point of the resurrection? Jesus died, then resurrected bodily, then ascended into heaven. He was the first fruits of what's to come. But you do make some good some good points here that I'm going to look into. I don't think we should be relying on a parable for literal interpretation since I don't think that was the point of the parable. Love the video! Please be nice if you respond. I am not attacking, I can respect the belief to pray to saints, I love orthodoxy. I'm just wrestling with praying to saints...

[@HomoEucharistica]

Human is a living soul, the inseparable unity between spirit and body (unlike angels who are bodiless powers). It's the body that is sleeping under the ground, like a seed waiting the dawn of spring, and the soul, if righteous in Christ, is present with the Lord... Surely, we are alive with the Lord (since being alive means unity with God; this is why being born again is also called "the first resurrection" in Scriptures), but the soul and the body are still one unit, the soul lives in and through the body. That's why "the second resurrection" takes place in the end of times.

[@Aphova]

Thabk you Fr. Paul for this. I was wondering if it's possible to contact you to discuss something private? I'm an Orthodox Christian abroad and a bit lost in some ways. I understand if you get too many requests like this, however.

[@r4ngerr4ge32]

I’m sure you appreciate Fr Paul’s content very much, but I might recommend you try to visit a local parish and speak with the priest there. Just search “Eastern Orthodox Church finder” on Google or something like that, and you should be able to find one near you.

[@Rickilyn]

But Jesus tells us to pray to Our Father...this, as a Catholic, was refreshing to know because He is my Savior, He is my intercessor, no one else...seriously no one but Jesus to Our Father

[@TheActualCorrectOpinion]

You don't know your own theology, I'm sorry. The seventh ecumenical council, confirmed by the Patriarch of Rome ex cathedra, anathematized the iconoclasts and said it was heresy. The 21 ecumenical councils are dogmatically binding to the Catholic faith and thus disagreeing with them makes you more of a Protestant than a Catholic.

[@nataliekoutellou7277]

Does this mean the saints can communicate with us just as God speaks with us?

[@HomoEucharistica]

Rather just as angels can communicate with us (and even then there's some differences), but basically yes. Just like Moses appeared on Mount Tabor, technically any saint of God could appear to us, if and only if that is the will of Christ.

[@nelsonjohn3722]

I have been considering Orthodoxy for a few days now but the biggest question that I have which was one of the reason I left Catholicism is praying to the saints for intersection. Honest question, If this was a permissible practice why none of the disciples did it? Why no one prayed to the first martyrs e.g Saint Stephen? How can saints gain the ability to listen to the prayers of multiple people praying to them at the same time? Good Bless 🙏

[@TheB1nary]

My struggle has always been: i believe the saints are alive; im not sure we can attribute to them the ability to hear all prayers addressed to them, any more than i could take prayer requests from someone across the world who i cannot hear and who isn't before me. How do the saints hear so many requests made to them? It seems that prayer in the Bible mostly fit this model: requests of Mary are made whilst she is before those making the requests; prayers on behalf of others are made in their presence or on their behalf by those who are not in heaven. They are physically present. Available to them. Can be gathered together. In heaven, there are orayers for sure (Revelation and the sea of glass), but there is little indication that they are making specific orayers requested of them by those on earth. Genuine struggle here.

[@HomoEucharistica]

As you say, the Bible presents us the cases when the saints were physically present with us and thus they can hear prayers in the limits of their body. However (correct me if I'm wrong), it seems the saints with Christ are not physically present on earth, rather "outside of space and matter", and thus not limited by their physics. Surely they are not omnipresent nor all-seeing, but it could be a bit childish to expect that the experience of "afterlife" would be in direct continuum with earthly life... And in the end, it's the Holy Spirit and Christ Himself who unite the body of Christ and connect all the parts together. Just as people on earth (e.g. St Paisios the Athonite) can receive God's order to pray for a person they have never met, that can be even more the case in the Kingdom of Heaven.

[@TheB1nary]

@@HomoEucharistica thanks for responding! Lots to think about there.

[@dumbidols]

Thank you for the video. Quick question, when the Orthodox say "Theotokos save us", this would give a different type of discomfort to Protestants because "save" has an inherent connection to salvation, in fact it shares a linguistic root. Yet I do know that the Orthodox would affirm that it is Christ who is our salvation. Could someone knowledgeable just explain this tension and practice?

[@atgred]

158 THE SYNOD OF JERUSALEM 1672 And if some say we commit idolatry in adoring the Saints, and the Eikons of the Saints, and the other things, we regard it as foolish and frivolous. For we worship with *LATRIA* the only God in Trinity, and none other ; but the Saints we honour upon two accounts : firstly, for their relation to God, since we honour them for His sake ; and for themselves, because they are living images of God. But that which is for themselves hath been defined as of *DULIA* . But the holy Eikons [we adore] relatively, since the honour paid to them is referred to their PROTOTYPES. For he that adoreth the Εikon doth, through the Εikon, adore the prototype ; and the honour paid to the Εikon is not at all divided, or at all separated from that of him that is pourtrayed, and is done unto the same, like that done unto a royal embassy.

[@jacobshepard654]

saul hiring a necromancer and Samuel says “”why are you bothering me, Saul?”

[@johnnyd2383]

State of the dead has changed at the Calvary. What Lord promised to the thief on the cross.?

[@jacobshepard654]

@@johnnyd2383 i wasn’t arguing i was giving examples. either way “saul, why do you disturb me” indicates the same as Lazarus

[@johnnyd2383]

@@jacobshepard654 Ever since Lord harrowed Hades, departed ones are in active state with the Lord. They are not in dormant "soul sleep" prison they were before Cavalry. In other words, they can not be "disturbed" anymore. Both cases you are mentioning belong to OT times. We are now in NT times.

[@jacobshepard654]

i know and i know the patriarchs are in heaven. nobody is realizing that the jews are the prototype. “trouble will come first to the jew then the gentile” what happens to THEM will soon befall the rest of the world. the old testament was really “hey world get ready. Because I am coming to save you now.”

[@jacobshepard654]

thats what i was getting at

[@LizzyTwifehomemaker]

This is a sincere question. How do we know that the Saints hear us? Is it in the Bible anywhere, or is it based on church tradition? The idea sounds beautiful, but how do we know its true? I know that my friends here on earth can hear me ask for prayer, but how do we know that the saints in heaven can hear me ask?

[@r4ngerr4ge32]

We know because God personally works through the saints, because they become like Him. In the Revelations of St John, angels carry prayers of all the saints before before God and offer them up to Him.

[@shobudski6776]

You need to read more of the lives of the saints. How they are closer to God than other human beings and how God works through them.

[@atanasie85]

It's fr Paisie Olaru on the wall? Romanian monk priest

[@OMNIBUBB]

Hi Father. A genuine, earnest question - does it not bother you that we do not *directly* see this practice anywhere in Scripture, or anywhere in the first few centuries of the Church? I understand the connections you are drawing from Scripture - indeed I once made the same arguments, myself - but the fact remains that we do not see the Apostles praying to Moses or Elijah, nor does St Paul pray to the Apostles who preceded him in martyrdom, nor do we see the early Church praying to St Stephen the Protomartyr - there is no direct evidence of this practice in Scripture. No example, no instruction. Likewise, we don’t see it in Clement, the Didache, Ignatius, Justin Martyr, Polycarp, Irenaeus, Tertullian, Origin, Cyprian of Carthage, the list goes on. It’s really not until the 4th century that we see the practice of prayer to the Saints developed. I’m sure it’s silly to ask you to temporarily step out of the perspective of an Orthodox priest, wholly trusting whatever the Church teaches, and to objectively consider the evidence that this practice may very well be an accretion … but does this give you any pause?

[@TheActualCorrectOpinion]

Revelations 8:3-5 confirms that people in Heaven can pray to God to intercede in what is happening on earth. If they do not know what is happening on earth, how can they pray for God to intercede on something they don't know about? And if they do know what is happening on earth, which they do, then they can clearly hear our calls asking them to pray for us and intercede on our behalf. Also, St. Luke painted the first icons. He painted the Virgin Mary.

[@OMNIBUBB]

@@TheActualCorrectOpinion this doesn’t speak at all to the appropriateness of directing prayer to anyone or anything other than God, Himself, though. This line of reasoning doesn’t justify us praying to the Saints. Throughout all of Scripture, we *only* see examples of prayer directed to God. And again, as far as we can tell, this practice is absent for the first few centuries of the Church. Christians gathered by the tombs of martyrs, collected their relics and honored their lives as exemplary, but there isn’t evidence in any of the examples I listed in the OP (Clement, the Didache, Justin Martyr, etc) of prayer being directed *to* the Saints. I’m just curious how this doesn’t seem suspicious?

[@HomoEucharistica]

Well, if you think about it, the Bible does not give us any information how the Apostles and the first Christians actually baptized people (no "baptismal formula" found), and there are only hints and mentions of how they worshipped. On the other hand, why it even should tell about these things? Paper was very expensive and early Christians were already aware of these things - so why to "waste" words to tell these things. Besides, the apostolic faith and its dogmas were considered as pearls that we cannot cast before swines, and that's also why those things were not mentioned - in fear that those texts end up to the hands of Pagans who might ridicule, mock, and misinterpret them, and use those texts against them... The Church was quite collectively silent on these things until the 4th century *WHEN* the freedom of religion was established and Christianity became legal, thus allowing them to organize and construct ancient practices and dogmas in peace. And even if there are no Christian sources addressing the praying to the saints, we know from archaeological sources that this was a thing in pre-Nicene Church. The oldest known Christian prayer is dedicated to Holy Theotokos, and that _papyrus_ is dated back to the 200-300s; but since this is not likely the first appearance of that prayer in its history (likely a copy of copies), its history can go at least 50-100 years further back, archaeologically speaking (just like the Apostolic Creed which is likely from the late 2nd century, at latest). And as Fr. Paul mentioned, the relics of St Polycarp were venerated already in the late 2nd century, and the services were practiced on the tombs of martyrs, and there we find "pray for us" inscriptions.

[@geraldhill7547]

As with so many things it is what is in a person's heart. So many people will never look objectively at others beliefs. I would like to see some commentary on how you perceive "levels" of righteousness. My POV is Santification is a process but justification (deemed righteous) is by the Grace of God. I don’t see levels there. Change my mind 😌

[@r4ngerr4ge32]

Not exactly sure what you mean by levels of righteousness. If your looking for answers about how we view salvation, there is Seraphim Hamilton, an orthodox apologist. But I would heavily recommend that you ask a priest these questions at a local parish.

[@FDroid01]

No. It's not. Anyone who tells you it is is making the traditions of man equivalent to the teachings of God. We are not even to pray to Jesus, God's only begotten son -- and that's according to Jesus himself when he taught others how to pray. We are only to pray to God, the Father that Jesus spoke of, and we should do so in Jesus' name. God bless you all. Remember this, as the Catholic and Roman Catholic teachers can be persuasive because they quote people who said it before them. Always ask yourself, "What would / did Jesus say about this?" If you are familiar with his voice, which called against manly traditions so severely and intentionally, and called the people back towards the law with such words as, "You have heard it said... But it is written." then you will be one of the few who find the straight path to the narrow gate. Jesus, Iesous, Yeshua... He alone is the way, the truth, and the life. Paul doesn't let you to the Father. The Nicean Council doesn't let you to the Father. Only Jesus. Don't forget.

[@SandalDad]

Only Jesus except you can’t pray to Jesus. Traditions from the disciples of the apostles weren’t taught by Jesus. Jesus abolished the law even when he said he came to “not abolish it but to fulfill it”

[@FDroid01]

@@SandalDad You don't study much, do you? In that verse, look up the Greek that it comes from. You'll see that he was saying he came to perform it completely. Also, how does "NOT to abolish the law" read to you as "I hereby abolish the law?" And, if Jesus came to abolish the law, that means he contradicts himself both in the verse you cited and the many places when he taught to obey God's law and follow His commandments -- even that not one jot or tittle will pass away until heaven and earth pass away. There are over 26 instances in the Bible Jesus read and taught which say that said law is eternal for all generations. If Jesus taught against his father's law like you think, then he is guilty of apostasy -- which is a capital crime according to Deuteronomy 13:1-10. Find me a place where Jesus actually does what you say he does, and I'll find you a place where followers of the actual apostate have tricked you into believing themselves over the Son of Man.

[@vitzuja5943]

Can you find at least one instance in the Bible where Jesus, Peter, Paul, David, Abraham, or even Judas Iscariot prayed to anyone else than God Almighty? No, you can't. And you shouldn't either.

[@shobudski6776]

Christianity is more than the Bible. Soften your heart

[@jonathanw1106]

Short answer: not unless you redefine what prayer means and take the religious devotion from it. There is a reason that such practices are never mentioned favorably in the Bible, same with iconography. If the orthodox and catholic churches would abandon this tradition that would likely unify the body. "Obviously he is not rejecting prayer of intercession for others" what? No protestant has ever argued that we cannot intercede for others in prayer, what we oppose is PRAYING to other entities besides God in a religious way. If you would like to request someone pray for you fine, but you never pray to your mom to intercede for you, you ASK her directly lol

[@johnnyd2383]

"For the eyes of the Lord are on the righteous, And His ears are open to their prayers" (1 Pet 3,12) Therefore... our petitioning of the Saints to pray on our behalf is quite Biblical. It is your ignorance of the Bible that is skewing your faith in wrong direction. Read also (Proverbs 15,29), (James 5,16)...

[@Aphova]

I think he addressed that point when he said prayer simply means request. Because the Orthodox believe that all the righteous are alive in Christ, a prayer to them now is the same as speaking to them when they were alive. It's just speech. Prayer to God is different though as it includes worship. That's my take anyway.

[@jonathanw1106]

@@Aphova yeah but I could redefine worship the same exact way to mean it's just expressing admiration for someone so we should worship the saints too

[@jonathanw1106]

Also, the day I see an orthodox praying to their neighbor will be when this prayer is just request definition actually holds water to me

[@papajuja9029]

Your not alone. I wouldnt pray to your mother for help either.

[@johnsambo9379]

I understand venerating icons but there is no reason to ask for their prayers when you can pray to Jesus.

[@r4ngerr4ge32]

Did you not hear his point about the saints availing much through prayer? If their prayers avail much more than most then it’s only logical we ask them to pray for us as well.

[@Jhadar]

Someone didn't watch the bees and the flies video