Is Qi Nonsense?

[@CuttingEdgeSystema]

Nothing to do with working in a fight or not, just the fact that its purely bio-mechanics, not "chi power." Though it would be interesting to see these same feats replicated in more of a live/sparring situation

[@dharma_star]

Hey Rob,I saw your video on this👍(I met Gin Soon Chu many years ago in Boston as well).Yeah,I mean these guys seems to be great at performing demonstrations.But demonstrations are just that...not a true "test under real pressure" if you will.Even if you do a demonstration of a predesigned "technique" with a UFC fighter,it's still only a demonstration. In other words,these guys have done these types of demonstrations many times with an predetermined or expected outcome.Meaning that it doesn't matter much who they are performing the demonstration with.The outcome will be similar...based on human structure and biomechanics. So,yeah,if asked to fight or even spar,it would change the whole outcome. One example is Rokas from Martial Arts Journey.Just watch his sparring video of him trying his Aikido vs an MMA guy and look at the result.(Btw,he later switched from Aikido to MMA).

[@CuttingEdgeSystema]

@@dharma_star Thanks. Yeah I trained with Chu in London and, more extensively, the Boston Chu's. I agree, the former particularly, used a lot of demos to showcase his abilities. I can't recall seeing anything that I would call "live" or freestyle - outside of push hands, where you start with contact. I've seen Rokas, not a fan tbh :) Cheers

[@mattbugg4568]

Chi is very real when you throw a strike you have to balance power energy and speed. However the mechanism that makes it all work is a vibration. After you find the center in your opponent you place different vibrations into it too gain different effects. You can learn the positions through the tai chi classics like rubbing twisting power would be a arm bar where you twist the arm to offset the center of the opponent to fell them. Close up power would be like felling an opponent with push. The methods are based on the opponents center and the angle you apply the power. Li chi would be your personal power which is when you issue the vibration which people think of like a bunch of vibrations however as you refine this skill you can break down the multiple vibrations into one vibration this one vibration is long power then there is short power refined power inch power etc.. they are all mechanisms that form what chi is. Chi is like a steaming pot of rice it pressurizes the pot and the lid lets off steam and falls back into place. This is the vibrational power. Sink vibrate like the beat of a drum and release power. Just like the two chi classics state.

[@WeAreSoPredictable]

Have you considered the irony of telling us how the world around us, our entire perception of it, is simply a mental construction based on sensory stimulus being moulded and modelled in our mind (to paraphrase and clarify) as a perceived model of reality. And then you tell us that Chi is real, and _"We all have it."_ Could Chi simply be an internal, mental model of our kinetic chain and willpower working together? An entirely mundane, materialist explanation? It's easy to dismiss materialists as closed-minded. *Almost everybody* likes to think of themselves as open-minded, and _almost without exception,_ those who make supernatural claims use the closed-minded excuse to dismiss, rather than engage with, legitimate questions, concerns, and criticisms. Yet it's *also* easy to work with materialists (ideally those with a background in both science *and* magic, since scientists have blind spots that magicians are more aware of ) to formulate a controlled test to *prove* Chi is real. Unfortunately, the response to a request to scientifically, rigorously test and prove something such as Chi is, almost inevitably, a deluge of excuses like, _"Why should we prove anything to others? If they don't believe, that's up to them."_ Which I don't, for one minute, buy. If Chi is real, and something supernatural as typically advertised, who in their right mind would not want to enlighten people? Who would not want to test it and understand it more fully? Who would be content to simply treat it as some amazing force beyond all scientific understanding, but, _"Ehh, we're all happy to just feel it and not test it with the best methods known to humanity to let the entire scientific community help us try to understand this amazing phenomenon."_ If anybody chooses to respond, please do so with an open mind, and with civility.

[@heavenmanearthperth325]

Qi = energy = life = the body's intelligence. For some reason in the west we hear the word qi and we instantly think it is something woo woo. It is just the Chinese word for energy. Which every cell in your body produces. Just like the sun gives life to us and to plants. It's the energy of life that animates all things. It's no mystery, it is totally normal and everyone has it. What everyone doesn't have though is the openness throughout their body to mobilise it properly. That's why in Taiji we spend a lot of time opening the tissue throughout the body so it can be lengthened, more connected and more conductive. As well as sinking down all the stiffness and tension we hold in the body that blocks the joints and the circulation. All of which has great benefits for health, longevity and ultimately spiritual development, which is really what it's all about.

[@williamdelong8265]

In my opinion you have to feel it to believe it. Theories are one thing experience is another. Once you get tossed around like a doll it's hard to argue lol.

[@jerryp1641]

The movie is no longer available! Do you know why? It's strange that no one has noticed or said anything. Can you help?

[@heavenmanearthperth325]

Hi Jerry, no it's strange, the site where it was available has been pulled down. Seems a waste to me after spending all that money producing it.

[@markdonovan1540]

It's good to hear someone talking about this, because it can stimulate people to find out for themselves. A film is just a film, but within many martial arts and other practices of mind-body training there are often references to unusual concepts. For example, in Taiji we have Qi/Chi and in Yoga we have Prana. Then we talk about 'energy', 'spirit' and other apparently intangible concepts. However, by practice and experience we can reach different levels of awareness and propiaperception. Science took many years to "discover" magnetism, an unseen field of energy. We also wouldn't be able to exist on the Earth without gravity, another unseen force. These things were not discovered, at least not scientifically explained, until relatively recently (in terms of human history). Qi, or the effects of Qi, have been shown to achieve transformation in the body, particularly with regards to healing and health. Talking about it won't help though, we have to work on it and practise regularly and in a good way.

[@CuttingEdgeSystema]

But that's a world of difference from believing you can move a person solely with "chi power"

[@richardallan2767]

My very basic take on it is mind, matter and energy are all different points on the same continuum. All these, including Qi, are just words though, with limits and cultural assumptions/perspectives. What's needed is the experience and the method to develop the principles which allow those to be functionally recognised, developed and applied.

[@heavenmanearthperth325]

Well put. 👌

[@tonbonthemon]

How are metaphysical views relevant to the efficacy or training of Taiji at all? In my Taiji class we use the word "Qi" but I've never found metaphysical debate or speculation to make my practice stronger. Cultivating the perception of qi, as something which needs to flow by virtue of proper mind-body integration and postural alignment, doesn't require any debate at all. Seems like a waste of time to bring it up in this kind of discussion and get wrapped up in psuedoscience and factionalizing.

[@acupetera]

Western Science tends to define things in order to understand them. This approach can be precise, but it is limiting by definition. According to the classical approach (as an acupuncturist I understand this from a medical perspective) qi is understood by its effect or manifestation. i.e. de qi = air qi, feng qi = wind qi etc. Described (often by its effect) not defined. Therefore, the experience of "qi" is more essential than the mental "understanding" or definition of qi. It's character in Chinese shows a pot boiling with the lid being moved by the steam.

[@40JoCharles]

Nice 🙏🏼🙂☯️

[@homefitness6378]

Even masters can't explain what Chi is. It's something you live.

[@geraldvan3018]

The power of Chi is real. Master Chung Wang in Florida teaches how to learn this power of Chi.

[@edwardhenne3204]

I saw a guy today cruising the movie with what he and I both would call taichi tricks. My response was "when you can freeze someone on your peng jing I'll listen to your critic in a serious way". Until then - no. Because I've seen Adam do that, but I cannot yet. Neither can this guy.

[@heavenmanearthperth325]

Exactly. Talk is very easy, true internal skill is very rare.

[@CuttingEdgeSystema]

which guy is that?

[@peterasmussen2933]

Be a lot easier if someone could actually explain what Chi is! I have never heard a reasonable explanation. Most analogies are ridiculous and totally boring.

[@heavenmanearthperth325]

Bio electric energy. Which everyone has. But the Qi of training is something that is built up over time.

[@sattoriemei3210]

The Chinese word for "Qi", 氣, literally means "gas"... so we all have gas...

[@heavenmanearthperth325]

😁

[@mortkebab2849]

What an annoying video. Long rambling with the light going on and off.

[@heavenmanearthperth325]

The disco lighting effect was just for you. 😊